Althouse: Scozzafava: "I hereby release those individuals who have endorsed and supported my campaign to transfer their support as they see fit to do so."

October 31, 2009

Scozzafava: "I hereby release those individuals who have endorsed and supported my campaign to transfer their support as they see fit to do so."

"I am and have always been a proud Republican."

98 comments:

miller said...: She did the honorable thing. Good for her.; 10/31/09, 10:57 AM
lucid said...: While this will be seen as a great victory for the conservative rebellion aagainst Obama, the problem is that it moves the Republicans into a more extreme positon politically. An effective alternative to the statist left-Democrats has to be broadly moderate. What happened here is not broadly moderate.; 10/31/09, 10:59 AM
Anonymous said...: It says something that she didn't throw her support to Hoffman. It says a lot in fact.

The Republicans are closer to the Democrats than they are to conservatives....maybe even democrat sock puppets.
Dud; 10/31/09, 10:59 AM
Michael Haz said...: Meanwhile, the President of the United States continues to blame his predecessor for...everything.

Obama's new web sitepage.; 10/31/09, 11:02 AM
Rialby said...: What about Doug Hoffman is extreme?; 10/31/09, 11:07 AM
Meade said...: "Obama names 110 White House visitors
Most guests still hidden; list shows Bill Gates, Oprah, bank CEOs, Gingrich"

Translucency.; 10/31/09, 11:12 AM
ricpic said...: If Republican operatives have half a brain - a very real question - they'll stop offering progressive Scozzafava candidates to Republican voters.; 10/31/09, 11:18 AM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: lucid said...

An effective alternative to the statist left-Democrats has to be broadly moderate.

When Democrats lost in 2000, 2002 and 2004 they did not respond by moving right. John McCain lost in 2008 because conservatives could not support a Democrat-lite. The road to ascendancy is not through surrender of principles.

People are noticing what an abject failure this Democrat-dominated government is. In nine short months they've come to realize that not all change is for the best.

By the way, this has to give pause to all the haters who have been crowing about Sarah Palin's irrelevance. She changed the course in NY-23 all by herself.; 10/31/09, 11:19 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: McCain was the Moderate Man. He got creamed. The GOP needs to go conservative (fiscally), not moderate.; 10/31/09, 11:22 AM
Anonymous said...: The honorable thing for her to do would be to stand on a podium in public and urge the voters of the district to unite behind her candidate - Doug Hoffman.

She has refused to do that. She doesn't want him to win.

She's not a Republican. She doesn't support Republican positions on the issues. She doesn't vote with the Republican Party on central issues.

She's a Democrat. And she's getting her fat ass handed to her because of her beliefs.

She's proving that she's not a Republican by refusing to endorse anyone in the race.

She wants the Democrat to win because the Democrat will vote the way she would vote on most of the issues that are important to her.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

And now the Republican Party needs to excommunicate every other So-Called Republican like her who enable the Democrat Party to win votes.

It should also serve as a warning to the GOP elite: Either become conservatives, stop voting for Democrat positions, or we will fire your asses.; 10/31/09, 11:25 AM
Anonymous said...: "McCain was the Moderate Man."

This is a very astute point and it cannot be reiterated enough.

The "John McCain Wing" of the Republican Party had their chance. They lost the game for us.

Of course we have to fire them. They lost. We cannot allow our leadership to lead us into defeat.

It's that simple. There's no special calculus required.

The Moderates lose. Who wants to associate with a bunch of losers like Dede Scuzzyfava.; 10/31/09, 11:30 AM
Bob Ellison said...: I agree with miller. Giving up at this stage of the campaign, when big names all around (Gingrich, Steele, etc.) have endorsed you and people all around you are telling you you're The One, must be fantastically difficult for even a small- to medium-sized ego.

Scozzafava is a poor representative of Republicans, but if we had more like her in Congress, we'd be much better off.; 10/31/09, 11:30 AM
Dustin said...: those saying this makes the GOP extreme are extremely uninformed or dishonest.

Scozzafava's views are extreme... Hoffman's aren't. Card check? Good lord.

The GOP's tend just got BIGGER with Hoffman than it was with Scozz.

We tried the Mccain route, and it didn't even win Althouse's vote. Screw that.; 10/31/09, 11:35 AM
LonewackoDotCom said...: What's hilarious here is that Hoffman appears to support policies that would increase spending and raise taxes on his tea party supporters. It looks like the tea partiers are useful idiots again, and this time also involves Dick Armey.

P.S. If, as will probably happen, the Dem takes the seat for the first time in a century, how exactly are the tea party loons going to spin it?; 10/31/09, 11:37 AM
jayne_cobb said...: I feel sorry for her as there is no way in hell that she could have been expecting this mess in an off year special election for a seat that will almost immediately be up for grabs again.

That said I'm glad she made this decision.; 10/31/09, 11:37 AM
chickelit said...: Go Sarah!

wv = bonshove
noun: (1) a really good shove as in "boy, she really gave that candidate a good shove".

verb transitive: colloq: to give someone the ol' heave-ho.; 10/31/09, 11:40 AM
Anonymous said...: Scozzafava's views are extreme... Hoffman's aren't. Card check? Good lord.

Again ... another important point that cannot be reiterated.

It is extreme for candidate to support the end of the secret ballot. That is heresy in a democratic republic.

Scuzzyfava's defeat is the Conservative Wing of the Republican Party rising like a Phoenix to castrate the "liberals in sheep's clothing" who have taken control of our Party.

2010 is starting to look better all the time.; 10/31/09, 11:40 AM
Anonymous said...: If, as will probably happen, the Dem takes the seat for the first time in a century, how exactly are the tea party loons going to spin it?

We don't spin shit, dude.

Here's what we'd say: "The voters chose. We put a candidate up who supports our position. The fight for the next 4 years begins today."

Conservatives are not about "winning at any cost."

Conservatives won't vote to end the secret ballot just because that gets them elected to office. Only liberals do that sort of shit. Liberals would vote to surrender to Iran if they thought it would get them a cushy office.

Conservatives stand for the belief that "This. Is. SPARTA." We vote our conscience and vote for what is right ... not just what gets us elected.

That approach doesn't guarantee victory ... sometimes it may even mean defeat.

But it will never mean surrender.; 10/31/09, 11:47 AM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: LonewackoDotCom said...

It looks like the tea partiers are useful idiots again, and this time also involves Dick Armey.

You are making a poor analysis of a very poor analysis. How did you come to such an inane conclusion? Hoffman is making the humanitarian case that immigration is beneficial to our country, but illegal immigration is not. This is the position of many conservatives.; 10/31/09, 11:52 AM
Wince said...: I suspect the most influential pressure to withdraw came from her GOP backers who were feeling the heat from the rank and file.; 10/31/09, 11:57 AM
Wince said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/31/09, 11:57 AM
Anonymous said...: "I feel sorry for her ..."

I do not. She's proven for all to see that she's a quitter.

Remember when you were a kid and there'd be that one guy who, if he couldn't win, he would quit and take his ball home with him.

Remember how you used to despise that quitter?

That's Dede Scuzzyfava.

Quitter.

We don't need leaders who are quitters.; 10/31/09, 12:00 PM
Bissage said...: "I am and have always been a proud Republican."

Well, good for her!

And such a celebratory mood makes this the perfect occasion for me to do some declaring of my own.

I am and have always been a proud carbon-based life form!!!

(Good for me!); 10/31/09, 12:10 PM
rcocean said...: It'll be interesting to see how the RINO's spin this. How much did the RNC waste on her campaign?; 10/31/09, 12:11 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Tyrone Slothrop: I've been covering the imm. issue since 2002 and I've written literally thousands of posts about it on my site and on others' sites. Based on my long experience covering this issue (for examples, see my coverage of this group or this recent discussion of a Meg Whitman speech, noting the links), I have a very good idea of what Hoffman supports. He's quite Bush-like, and if he makes it to Congress he is not going to be in any way a strong supporter of our laws. He's going to vote for things in this area that help crooked employers and that have the impact of raising taxes on his supporters. The dude was endorsed by Dick Armey, and that tells smart folks all they need to know.

As for the other tea partier's rantings, I'll reply once my alternative universe translator gets here.; 10/31/09, 12:11 PM
Unknown said...: Don't be mean; as miller said, she did the right thing.

Now if only Daggett would do the same in NJ...

PS You can tell it's the weekend, the Lone Wacko rides again!

WV "puntr" The guy who kicks the football.; 10/31/09, 12:14 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: Oh jeez, LoneWacko, is 24Ahead your site?

Sorry everyone. I didn't know I was feeding a troll.; 10/31/09, 12:31 PM
reader_iam said...: So, she give it up and releases endorsers etc., and she's still "Scuzzyfava" rather than "Scozzafava"? Etc.

It'll be interesting to see how much like some of his followers Hoffman really is.; 10/31/09, 12:33 PM
Kansas City said...: I think Joe and Miller are right in prasing Scozzafava for doing an honorable and humbling thing. I think Florida is wrong in calling her a quitter. She is gracefully giving up something that probably a month ago was the dream of her life without bitterness and with only a mild complaint about lack of finances.

I also think she must be trying to help Hoffman and the Repblicans. It is hard to see how any of her votes would have been anything other than loyal republicans voting for her as the republican candidate and this immediately frees republican local and national leaders to support Hoffman. Good and impressive move by Scozzafava.

By the way, the media will spin this as right wingers taking control of the repuclican party and driving "moderate" Dede out. But I assume that spin will be overwhelmed by three republican victories on Tuesday, which should be sufficient to scare democrats off the worst of the health care reform.; 10/31/09, 12:38 PM
reader_iam said...: So, is Florida *posing* as a true conservative? Because I see no other explanation for the positively HUGE piece of bait he or she just waved in the comment timestamped 12:00 P.M. (Central, the time zone of the Althouse blog).; 10/31/09, 12:40 PM
hombre said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/31/09, 12:40 PM
hombre said...: Say what you will, whether she endorsed Hoffman or not, she opened the door for him. There is no reason for her to be mocked by conservative hardasses for that.

Scozzafava was a poor choice, but Gingrich's reasoning behind endorsing her was politically sound. Conservatives, particularly Christian conservatives, of whom I am one, need to be relentless on the political/governmental issues that define conservatism. We also need to consider Gingrich's advice as it relates to accepting as allies fiscally conservative candidates whose views on social/values issues are more moderate than our own.; 10/31/09, 12:44 PM
David said...: "I release . . . ."

As if they were captives. (They were not--her entire problem.)

Does moving more to the right mean that we conservatives have to build more and better border fences, make abortion illegal, oppose gay marriage and otherwise make the most conservative social agendas a litmus test?

If so, count me out.

We need a major return to fiscal responsibility, an emphasis on personal responsibility and not government nannies, a focus on improving education for all, economic growth through private enterprise and maintenance of lower taxes.

But if conservatives continue to tell people how they should believe and act on social issues, they will continue to lose. Mainstream attitudes have changed on social issues. Get used to it.; 10/31/09, 12:45 PM
reader_iam said...: chickenlittle: You said, "Go Sarah!"

But Florida derides Scozzafava as a quitter.

Um.

It seems Sarah may have a problem w/r/t to true conservatives such as Florida.; 10/31/09, 12:47 PM
reader_iam said...: Does moving more to the right mean that we conservatives have to build more and better border fences, make abortion illegal, oppose gay marriage and otherwise make the most conservative social agendas a litmus test?

Based on my observations, I think that's substantially what it DOES mean for the currently most active, activist grassroots conservatives (the notable exceptions such as our own Freemanhunt [whom I admire a great deal] notwithstanding).; 10/31/09, 12:53 PM
chickelit said...: @Reader:

I'm holding that whole Sarah is a quitter thing in abeyance until after her book comes out.

As for Florida, he can speak for himself I guess.

wv: berma The imaginary land between internet street and sidewalk-doesn't exist anymore in the new developments.; 10/31/09, 12:59 PM
Charlie Martin said...: John McCain lost in 2008 because conservatives could not support a Democrat-lite.

And thereby elected Obama, and becoming in part responsible for the ensuring four years.; 10/31/09, 1:01 PM
hombre said...: Dave wrote: If so, count me out.... [If] conservatives continue to tell people how they should believe and act on social issues, they will continue to lose. Mainstream attitudes have changed on social issues. Get used to it.

Perhaps you need to consider Gingrich's advice about accommodating differing views to build a conservative majority, linked in my post at 12:44.

Otherwise, those who think like you may find themselves living in a society where they can marry or bugger whomever or whatever they please and have abortions at will, but can't find a job.; 10/31/09, 1:06 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Tyrone Slothrop: about a year ago, I moved my entire site from lonewacko.com (where it had been since 2002) to 24Ahead.com. There are a few ways you can tell, such as the fact that every address at the former redirects to the latter, the fact that the latter URL is linked from my profile ("My Web Page"), by doing a search, and things like that. Tea Party intelligence hard at work.

As for Hoffman's supporters, the tea party movement appears to consist of various factions: corrupt DC lobbyists, RonPaul supporters, Randroid loons, and useful idiots. The middle two are like glassy-eyed cultists, adept at community organizing and putting on stunts, but not at all adept at thinking. The motivations of the first group are easy for some to recognize: their goals are to help those who give them money. The latter group should be informed who they're involved with; most wouldn't support the movement if they were fully informed about the others in their movement.; 10/31/09, 1:09 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: Seneca the Younger said...

And thereby elected Obama, and becoming in part responsible for the ensuring four years.

I agree. I held my nose and voted for McCain. When November rolls around you have to choose between bad and worse sometimes. The point for conservatives is, if you're going to lose, at least go down fighting for principle instead of nominating suck-ups.; 10/31/09, 1:16 PM
Anonymous said...: She did do the right thing, so kudos.

I hope Mr. Hoffman doesn't have any skeletons in his closet, because I have a feeling his opponent, the White House, and Acorn are all going full steam ahead to destroy him.

I agree with Freeman Hunt. The Reps need to stop talking about tangential social issues and start cutting government spending. If they would promise to repeal the Stimulus, I would walk on hot coals for them. Now is your chance, Reps. Don't blow it.; 10/31/09, 1:20 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: lucid: the problem is that it moves the Republicans into a more extreme positon politically.

The Conservative party in New York isn't extreme, they're more of an alternate form of the Republican party. Often they endorse the Republican candidate; this time they happened to run a more fiscally conservative candidate which was more to the electorate's liking.; 10/31/09, 2:07 PM
Rialby said...: And so it begins. Just as we saw Lucid tell us at the top that Hoffman is EXTREME, we now have a bunch of links including one to Sully telling us this guy is out of the mainstream via Instapundit.

Next thing you know we'll have Charles Johnson telling us that he heard Hoffman once traveled to Germany to link up with elements from the neo-Nazi movement a la AUH20.; 10/31/09, 2:11 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Florida: The honorable thing for her to do would be to stand on a podium in public and urge the voters of the district to unite behind her candidate - Doug Hoffman.

I kind of agree, but you have to remember lots of people don't like her, so strong support for Hoffman might have been harmful.

She did enough in my opinion, and I think unless we hear Hoffman's people complaining about her actions we should probably hold off on this type of criticism.; 10/31/09, 2:12 PM
Rialby said...: Btw, why can't the Republican party find Conservatives like Andrew Sullivan, a true Conservative (according to Andrew Sullivan)?; 10/31/09, 2:14 PM
Harry said...: "Conservatives stand for the belief that "This. Is. SPARTA."

Offhand, I cannot think of a slogan with more unfortunate connotations for a political movement, except, perhaps, for "Purity Of Essence".

Anyone who knows anything at all about Greek history would know that Sparta was the most repressive, underhanded, dead-end society, and the worst hegemon, that Greece ever produced.

Heaven forbid that conservatives should get saddled with that legacy.; 10/31/09, 2:15 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Freeman Hunt: McCain was the Moderate Man. He got creamed. The GOP needs to go conservative (fiscally), not moderate.

It's so much easier for them to go conservative socially though. Look at Huckabee.; 10/31/09, 2:17 PM
Republican said...: @LoneWacko:

Very interesting comments in the link you provided. I did not know that Hoffman had signed a pledge and taken an oath to support Dede.
Nobody seems to have ever followed up on asking Hoffman about it.

Like you, I struggle with the nonEnglish version of TeaBagger comments. My experience is that they tend to include something about "war" and "violence", directed at the GOP.; 10/31/09, 2:23 PM
victoria said...: No, miller, she did the chicken, Sarah Palin thing, she dropped out. The heroic thing to do would be to throw her support behind the democratic candidate instead of the uber right wing Hoffman. If I were her I wouldn't be proud to be a republican, they just strong armed her out of the election. They must be running scared, this district has always been a republican stronghold and it is slipping away from them.

Go Bill Owens!!!!!!; 10/31/09, 2:26 PM
Republican said...: I'm sure if Hoffman is sent to Washington, he will do away with abortion, ban gays, and impose religious guidelines on the country.

All goals of his Conservative Party.

I'm confident he can do it, with the backing of 100,000 tea baggers led by Dick Armey and Breitbart.; 10/31/09, 2:28 PM
lawyerdad said...: "Translucency."

Translucent, but far more transparent than Your Favorite Texan.; 10/31/09, 2:29 PM
jayne_cobb said...: So how long do we have to wait for a fabricated quote to appear and get reported upon with no fact checking?

I figure there'll be one out by tomorrow.; 10/31/09, 2:36 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: Is it "Republican"?

Or is "Moby" more accurate?; 10/31/09, 2:38 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: victoria--

How many chicken wings ya wanna bet that Hoffman beats Owens pulling away? You're whistling past the graveyard.; 10/31/09, 2:41 PM
Dustin said...: It's funny watching the left grow FURIOUS that the votes will get what they want... a reasonable and non-corrupt representative.

Oh no!

They are mad... they don't really know why, except they've been ordered to punch back twice as hard, call people asking for common sense justice 'tea baggers', blaming Sarah Palin for God know's what. etc etc etc.; 10/31/09, 2:42 PM
Kirk Parker said...: David,

Illegal immigration is anything but a social issue.; 10/31/09, 2:52 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: 1. I don't know what Republican is referring to regarding a "pledge".

2. Freeman Hunt is wrong. Fiscal conservatism is a huge loser; it's unpopular in polls even of Republicans (ex.: most support SocSec), and it's difficult to fight against those who are buying votes.

3. The GOP problem is one of intelligence and integrity; the great majority of their leaders have little of either. They can't take on the Dems on popular issues; with some popular issues (such as the one I cover) it's due in large part to the fact that they're bought off by crooked companies.

4. As for any claim that Hoffman is "non-corrupt", the jury is still out on that. Why does he sound like Bush at the first link I posted above?; 10/31/09, 2:56 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/31/09, 3:01 PM
hombre said...: Moby Republican wrote (2:28): I'm confident he can do it, with the backing of 100,000 tea baggers led by Dick Armey and Breitbart.

100,000? I'm not so confident he can manage all that with just the backing of, say, the Texas Tea Party Patriots from Austin and North Houston.

Better to go with the backing of millions of tea party patriots and sympathizers from all over the country.; 10/31/09, 3:08 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Instead of "fiscal conservatism", I should have said "strong fiscal conservatism". Only a very small number of Americans support libertarian financial concepts; if the number were larger than the LP candidate wouldn't have, for instance, gotten just around 0.4% in California in 2004. That's in an election where everyone knew who would win the state and was ripe for a protest vote. But, take heart: that was almost twice as many votes as Leonard Peltier got.

I welcome corrections, but it doesn't look like Barr broke 1% in any state in 2008. In TX and his home state, it looks like he got 0.7%. In IN, GA, TX and NC he beat Nader many times over, and he came out ahead of him a bit in SC and AZ. But, in all the other 52 or so states, he was beaten by Nader.

Now, that might cause smart people to think that the libertarian movement (if not mainstream variants of some of their concepts) aren't overly popular. But, the tea party people somehow think different.; 10/31/09, 3:10 PM
mariner said...: David:
But if conservatives continue to tell people how they should believe and act on social issues, they will continue to lose. Mainstream attitudes have changed on social issues. Get used to it.

Actually leftists have been lecturing the country for decades about how everyone should believe and behave. Why is it only wrong when conservatives do it?

WV: trysit -- attempt to park your ass. "Trysit down."; 10/31/09, 3:12 PM
hombre said...: Tyrone wrote: How many chicken wings ya wanna bet that Hoffman beats Owens pulling away?

Don't count your chicken wings before they're hatched. Scozzafava's name will still be on the ballot. Unless, Hoffman's supporters are smarter than most Republicans and take steps to deal with that potential problem outside the polling places, she still siphons votes away from Hoffman.

It is New York, after all.; 10/31/09, 3:17 PM
mariner said...: lonewacko:
Now, that might cause smart people to think that the libertarian movement (if not mainstream variants of some of their concepts) aren't overly popular. But, the tea party people somehow think different.

That's ridiculous. Fiscal conservatism is in fact THE issue that unites Tea Partiers.

There are two big reasons Libertarians don't do well with voters:

1. We have a two-party system, and the Libertarian party is not one of the two.

2. Libertarians loudly back policies that very few Americans agree with, such as legalizing drugs and withdrawing all troops from foreign countries.

If some conservative Republicans seem stuck on doctrinal purity, Libertarians are far worse.

If they would vote for fiscally conservative Republican candidates we could turn the socialist Democrats out of office.

WV: vison -- the technically correct term for vuffalo.; 10/31/09, 3:29 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: elHombre said...

Don't count your chicken wings before they're hatched.

Sure, it's not in the bag, but I'll take even money, er, chicken wings, any day.; 10/31/09, 3:34 PM
Unknown said...: mariner, I've never heard the dichotomy stated more clearly.

There are people who hope the Tea Parties can evolve into a "Republitarian" movement combining the best of traditional Republicanism and the most popular views of Libertarianism.

Could it work? After this year, we may get a chance to see.; 10/31/09, 3:39 PM
Synova said...: I think that ending her campaign is a classy thing to do. The *easiest* thing to do would be to stick it out in order to stick it to Hoffman.

I think this is classy and honorable.

And really... Hoffman is not extreme. He's just far more conservative than Scozzafava who was considered more liberal than her Democrat opponent.

It may seem logical that the way to win is to be more "moderate" except that fairly "moderate" people are spun as dangerous extremists (Palin is a good example... her actual public record is very moderate, but that doesn't stop a scare campaign that she's going to impose her personal beliefs on everyone else.) Logical or not, however, if people want to vote for Democrats and liberal candidates, they will. Why would they vote for a liberal Republican? People ought to be given choices between at least slightly different philosophies, not choices between all the same philosophy.

Gingrich is wrong because his comments build up a straw man of "100% agreement" when all most people are looking for is candidates that agree with them "more often than not."

Lastly, Palin didn't do this "alone"... it was a major group effort.; 10/31/09, 3:40 PM
MadisonMan said...: I haven't read all comments, so maybe this point has been made, but Scozzafava (I Just love that name) seemed like a great Republican for New York -- too bad the Republicans in the rest of the country -- the ones who won't care about local politics like she would have -- torpedoed her campaign.

If some parts of the Republican Party are trying to write off the northeastern part of the Country, maybe backing Hoffman is a good idea.

Was there a primary for this? Or were the people appointed? If it's candidate by appointment, well maybe the support behind Hoffman simply points to the need of a run-off before a special election. If there was a primary, I have to ask where all the national supporters were then?; 10/31/09, 3:46 PM
jayne_cobb said...: MM,

There was no primary for the special election.

I forget the specifics of how she was picked but I believe Dan Riehl had a good run down on his site.; 10/31/09, 3:55 PM
MadisonMan said...: The lack of a primary makes the whole thing a little more understandable. Thanks.; 10/31/09, 4:00 PM
hombre said...: Scozzafava (I Just love that name) seemed like a great Republican for New York....

That was one of the points Gingrich made. Probably a good thing for activists to have considered.

I think she was picked by some sort of local caucus.; 10/31/09, 4:01 PM
mariner said...: I don't think it's fair to characterize Hoffman's candidacy as outsiders pushing someone locals don't want -- that was actually Scozzafava's candidacy.

I'm not in tune with NY-23 politics, but here's someone who is.

I note that Hoffman didn't get support in any of those meetings. Unfortunately none of the conservatives who had the support were willing to buck the party, and Hoffman was.

Polls indicate that the NY-23 voters support him. I suspect they'd have supported any of the conservatives who tried to run, but we can't know that.; 10/31/09, 4:06 PM
The Drill SGT said...: MadisonMan said...
Scozzafava (I Just love that name) seemed like a great Republican for New York -- too bad the Republicans in the rest of the country -- the ones who won't care about local politics like she would have -- torpedoed her campaign.

I don't vote there yet, but my wife and I have inherited a summer place in the district. It's about as conservative as you could get in NT state. The biggest issues are the nearly absolute control that the state has on development in the district due to the fact the most of it is in the Adirondack state park. So the people, like rural westerners tend to be fairly libertarian; 10/31/09, 5:01 PM
David said...: El Hombre said:

Otherwise, those who think like you may find themselves living in a society where they can marry or bugger whomever or whatever they please and have abortions at will, but can't find a job.

You have no idea how I think on these issues, but your post pretty much makes my point. Contempt for those who are different just does not play well.

My point is that the society is tired of gay bashing and similar attitudes. Gay marriage would not be my choice for a public policy, but exclude from the party all who would endorse or tolerate it is not a way to win elections.

To Kirk: I would agree with you if you said that illegal immigration is not just a social issue. It's a mixture of economic and social, but again the Republicans have fallen into a trap. They have made the immigration issue into a keep them out campaign instead of exploring whether we might be better off to have more open borders with Mexico. Result: Hispanic voters, the fastest growing group, have moved away from what was a growing affinity to Republicans.

The Bushes, George and Jeb, understand full well that the Republican Party is dead meat if it does not make big inroads in Hispanic voters. Getting tagged as anti-hispanic is one of the principal reasons that Republicans no longer compete for California in Presidential elections.; 10/31/09, 5:25 PM
daubiere said...: shorter david: republicans/conservatives need to abandon all of their beliefs, principles and half of their platform in order to win elections. its the way of the FUTURE, baby! its the only way you can appeal to real conservatives like andrew sullivan!

see england, specifically the tory and conservative parties to see what happens when you give up your principles for votes.; 10/31/09, 5:47 PM
daubiere said...: "Getting tagged as anti-hispanic is one of the principal reasons that Republicans no longer compete for California in Presidential elections."

and apparently in order to be tagged "pro hispanic" you have to support the "hispanic" (read: mexicans) right to break our immigration laws and demographically flood our country with illegal immigrants. you also apparently have to fully support unrestricted free access to health care and social services for these illegal immigrants or apparently youre "anti-hispanic". haha.

this is the democrat strategy, by the way. pander to racial groups, demonize the opposition as racist, flood the country with uneducated permanent democrats so that eventually there will be no way to oppose the demands and perceptions of "la raza" and no way that anyone not beholden to the demands of "la raza" can ever win an election again. it worked with the blacks, it is working with the mexicans. the other hispanics who have to struggle to legally emigrate here rather than flood unimpeded over the border might beg to differ.; 10/31/09, 5:56 PM
hombre said...: Dave wrote: You have no idea how I think on these issues, but your post pretty much makes my point. Contempt for those who are different just does not play well.

Oh. I was operating on the theory that your post, which I quoted at 1:06, reflected your thoughts. Silly me.

But if you don't mean what you say, why post at all? Just askin'.

As for your "contempt for those who are different" implication: I spoke accurately of existing conditions, the goals of existing political movements or logical extensions thereof (maybe with a little humor thrown in). What are you talking about?

I recommend you reread our respective posts at 12:44 and 12:45 and reflect on which of us appears to be the more intolerant of other points of view.

BTW, I suspect that most conservatives would recognize the disingenuousness of tagging people as "anti-Hispanic" because they believe immigration laws should be enforced and that illegal immigrants unfairly burden our social resources.; 10/31/09, 6:30 PM
Republican said...: "Doug Hoffman looked me in the eyes, raised his right hand and pledged to support the Republican nominee in this district. He then turned around and declared his candidacy for this seat, rendering his oath utterly meaningless. Doug Hoffman lacks the basic integrity we need in our Congressional Representative." -- Jefferson County Republican Party Chairman Don Coon; 10/31/09, 7:12 PM
Republican said...: "Doug Hoffman took an oath to Republican voters to support the Republican nominee in our district, but his pledge has gone unfulfilled." --Madison County GOP Chairwoman Therese Wiley Dancks and Madison County Board of Supervisors Chairman John Becker.; 10/31/09, 7:12 PM
Republican said...: He did say it repeatedly,” said Sandra Corey, the former GOP chairwoman of Jefferson County. “And then all of a sudden, it’s a no-go, like he hadn’t understood her background, which is a falsehood. I would never, ever trust him.”; 10/31/09, 7:14 PM
Republican said...: "Despite having signed a pledge to support the eventual nominee to emerge from the process, Hoffman considered the possibility of asking for the Conservative Party's endorsement to run against Scozzafavva, making it a three way race. When Paul Maroun declined Mike Long's offer to run on the Conservative line, Hoffman approached Long and asked for the nod."

http://blog.thememphisteaparty.com/; 10/31/09, 7:15 PM
hombre said...: Moby Republican wrote: "Doug Hoffman looked me in the eyes, raised his right hand...."

and: "Doug Hoffman took an oath to Republican voters to support the Republican nominee...."

and: "'He did say it repeatedly,' said Sandra Corey, the former GOP chairwoman...."

etc.

Ah, yes. Republicans cannibalizing Republicans again.

Democrats can't govern and Republicans can't politic. What are we to do?; 10/31/09, 7:38 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: It's so much easier for them to go conservative socially though. Look at Huckabee.

Huckabee would also get creamed, and lots of GOP voters would not vote for him if he were the candidate. (For example, me.)

Lonewacko, I am not wrong. I'm not talking about extreme fiscal conservatism or chucking Social Security. I'm talking about mainstream fiscal conservatism.

It's the fiscal conservatism that matters. Embrace that, and you'll pick up most of the libertarians, most of the moderates, and slice a Democrats as well as the traditional GOP.; 10/31/09, 7:45 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: Republican

I support your right to call yourself anything you want, but your handle--"Republican"--is a lie, right? You intentionally picked it in order to mislead people? You're lying, aren't you?; 10/31/09, 7:47 PM
Republican said...: It's interesting how any perceived criticism of the teabaggers results in childish insults, rather than response to the information being presented.

At least there has been no mention here of declaring war on the GOP, or advocating violence. (Yet.); 10/31/09, 10:44 PM
Joe said...: I was bemused by how befuddled NPR has been on this issue. Like MadisonMan, they assume that upstate New York is even remotely similar politically to downstate New York. How Scozzafava got as far as she did is a mystery to me.; 10/31/09, 11:57 PM
el polacko said...: if those on the right preferred hoffman to scozzafava: great ! vote for hoffman. but no.. they had to pick up the torches and pitchforks and utterly destroy the so-called rino. they espouse driving her and her ilk from the party of "true" conservatives. my god! the woman believed in equality under the law for gay citizens... burn the witch !!
do these folks really believe that this is the way to grow the republican party and win elections? whatever became of the conservative values of smaller government, lower taxes, individual liberty, and free enterprise? guess those just don't have the same gut-appeal as a good witch burning.; 11/1/09, 12:04 AM
TMink said...: elHombre, Newt's number one goal is to build a Republican majority. Let him. But I will never again vote for some idiot just because she or he is not a Democrat. I did that with McCain, and am still disappointed with myself.

Scozzafava is pro abortion, I don't vote for them ever. She is a big spending big government type. I never vote for them.

We have a very good governor in Tennessee who is a Democrat. I have voted for him several times, also when he ran for mayor, because he is a fiscal conservative.

Many of us could care less about the Republicans. We are Conservatives.

Trey; 11/1/09, 12:29 AM
Synova said...: "my god! the woman believed in equality under the law for gay citizens... burn the witch !!"

My god! The woman was for Card Check!

(ie. It's not always all about you.); 11/1/09, 12:45 AM
Synova said...: "It's interesting how any perceived criticism of the teabaggers..."

Oh, honey... I'm not *perceiving* any criticism of *teabaggers*.; 11/1/09, 12:47 AM
reader_iam said...: it's interesting how any perceived criticism of the teabaggers

...and it's at that point you have shut off the "take me seriously" argumentation,at least for people such as I.; 11/1/09, 2:47 AM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: Republican

Interestingly, you don't respond to my charge.; 11/1/09, 7:36 AM
hombre said...: @TMink: I'm clear about Gingrich's goal. I was a lifelong Democrat, now independent and conservative.

My implication was that since there is no conservative party, the vehicle for resurgence appears to be the Republican Party, unless we can win with independents. Given that, I agree somewhat with Gingrich that we have to compromise on some issues -- fiscal restraint not being among them.

I'm not interested in watching secular progressives destroy my country because we who oppose them have become as predictably inflexible as they are.; 11/1/09, 8:09 AM
TMink said...: ElHombre, I appreciate your position, we just differ a bit on how politically flexible we are. I think you win the flexibility contest!

ed wrote: "There are people who hope the Tea Parties can evolve into a "Republitarian" movement combining the best of traditional Republicanism and the most popular views of Libertarianism."

There have been a LOT of Christians at the tea parties I have attended. Some of us are pretty picky on the social issues. I am picky about abortion and marriage. But other than that, I have a lot in common and a lot fo respoect for Libertarians.

Speaking of tea parties, I am putting some photos from the ones I have attended up on my flickr account. I am giving them captions taken from disparaging comments made on left wing blogs. The idea is that the tension between the hateful captions and the photos will show the satire.

I am not sure it is working!

Either the idea is off or the flickr crowd is not getting the satire. If any of you would like, give it a look and let me know if I am just barking up the wrong tree with the whole idea.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tmink/sets/72157622651449132/

You have to click on the photos to read the captions.

Trey; 11/1/09, 8:23 AM
hombre said...: @tmink: I think your flickr post is fun, but it's been done on lots of websites. Conservatives have seen it and the lefties have no sense of humor unrelated to schadenfreude.; 11/1/09, 9:15 AM
Republican said...: The teabaggers will eventually self-implode once the numerous factions making up the "movement" realize they do not share common goals.

The autonomous fringe is already marginalizing the "millions" of antigay proChristian members.

Ick.; 11/1/09, 10:22 AM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: Republican said...

The teabaggers will eventually self-implode once the numerous factions making up the "movement" realize they do not share common goals.

The Tea Parties are anything but a movement of social conservatives alone. Sure the social conservatives are there, but only because they uphold the core values of less government and more responsible spending. So "teabaggers", as you uncivilly call us, are comprised of social conservatives, Republicans angry at the inside-the-beltway mentality, Reagan Democrats appalled at the Marxist turn of the Obama administration, Libertarians, old people, young people, blacks, whites, Greens, and on and on. No amount of potty-mouth on your part can change that. And as for implosion, ask Dede Scozzafava how she feels about that.; 11/1/09, 11:26 AM
KayKay said...: Florida, I think I am in love with you. Look me up on facebook: Karen Meier Yax; 11/2/09, 7:33 PM
KayKay said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/2/09, 7:33 PM