July 30, 2009

"Obama’s top science adviser, John P. Holdren, advocated the 'de-development' of the United States..."

John P. Holdren wrote: "A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system (especially patterns of consumption) into line with the realities of ecology and the global resource situation.... [O]ne key to saving world society lies in a measured and orderly retreat from overdevelopment in today’s ODCs (overdeveloped countries) — a process we will label, for want of a better word, de-development."

So... should we relax and enjoy the recession?


AllenS said...

De-development means bringing our economic system of the USofA more in line with the economics of the south side of Chicago. Something that Obama knows a lot about.

traditionalguy said...

Now it seems that all of Obama's destructive acts to American power and might in the world have a planned outcome. They are not simple inexperience or mistakes. Obama's plans include devastating America to obey his Gods call for a return to a pristine world without people pursuing life, liberty and happiness in the USA. That man is our enemy. I suspect that is why many people wish his birth certificate issues could just make him go away without 3.3 more years of insider destruction by this enemy. Obama certainly knows from his Marxist training that he is at war with us. I also suspect that is why we keep hearing about the need to suppress domestic terrorists. Obama's best friend Chavez has sent him some pointers.

SGT Ted said...

The country has been taken over by eco-luddite crackpots. This isn't a scientists ideas, this is a totalitiarian control freak loons ideas.

kjbe said...

Systems reset themselves all the time – it’s a pretty natural event that can apply to physical, natural or economic systems. Yeah, sometimes things get out of control. It’s a way of life. If your basic needs are being met, chill.

Anonymous said...

Just what we need. Obama has nominated a religionist to his top science post.

It needs a label: "Obama worse than Bush"

Sixty Grit said...

I am shocked that Obama has an extremist in his administration. Contact the MSM stat!

Larry J said...

De-development is far from the worst things Holdren has advocated.

Holdren gave a clear indication of his philosophical views in the 1977 book Ecoscience, which he co-authored with Paul and Anne Ehrlich. [1] In its pages, the authors noted, "The neo-Malthusiasn view proposes...population limitation and redistribution of wealth." They concluded, "On these points, we find ourselves firmly in the neo-Malthusian camp" (p. 954).

Economist Thomas Malthus is one of the most literally anti-human theorists in human history. He viewed overpopulation as the fount of all woe, but one which could be staunched with enough blood. In "An Essay on the Principle of Population" Malthus wrote, "All the children who are born, beyond what would be required to keep up the population to a desired level, must necessarily perish, unless room be made for them by the death of grown persons...if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use...and court the return of the plague." Like their intellectual forebear, Holdren and the Ehrlichs proposed their own acceptable sacrifice to the environment.

Compulsory Abortion for American Women

The trio prescribed a rigidly enforced, government-imposed limit of two children per family. Holdren and the Ehrlichs maintained "there exists ample authority under which population growth could be regulated." Hiding behind the passive voice, they note, "it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society." (Emphasis added.) To underscore they mean business, they conclude, "If some individuals contribute to general social deterioration by overproducing children, and if the need is compelling, they can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility" (pp. 837-838). Moreover, if the United States government refuses to take proper measures, they authorize the United Nations to take compelling force.

It's telling that Obama would nominate such an extremist as his top science advisor.

The Crack Emcee said...

When most people can't see the obvious, you get statements like this - and K*thy's.

But it's all pretty obvious to,...Oh, never mind.

rhhardin said...

More bobcats would be the solution.

Roger J. said...

Is there any doubt that this guy is a f**king idiot? And what does this say about Obama's judgment in signing him on? Heck of a job there holdie

The Drill SGT said...
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The Crack Emcee said...

Sorry for doing two comments, but I just noticed Larry J's, and that all this jawing is about that malthusian genius, John P. Holdren. Seeing how that's the case (and who could ever disagree with him?) I now also agree with K*thy and promise, once I get my Rolls Royce, I will "chill" just as she advises.

That's a "basic need" for maintaining The Macho Response.

The Drill SGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Drill SGT said...

we could always nuke ourselves.

nuclear winter, our contribution to Global Warming

what's not to like in that scenario for holdren?

ah, the rads might harm the cockroaches :(

Peter Hoh said...

The problem with underpopulated parts of Nebraska and South Dakota (etc) is that they don't have really ballsy representation in congress, nor do they have professional sports teams. Those areas would be teeming with people if they only had more by way of tax-funded stadiums, airports like the one Murtha got for his district, and bridges. Beg ass bridges connecting tiny little towns.

Richard Fagin said...

"De-development." The serial liars in the Obama administration finally call it as they really see it. Where do you think all this love of "renewable" energy and loathing for nuclear power and hydrocarbon production comes from?

Why don't you just hurry up and die and decrease the surplus population, to paraphrase Dickens.

Anonymous said...

Are we not Dems?
We are Devo.

KCFleming said...

I Have Seen Your Future, America, And It Doesn’t Work
James Delingpole
14 Jan 2009

"Obama, I very much fear, is Blair Mk II. Of course there are differences. Obama, for example, has been very much more open than Blair ever was about his plans for redistributive taxation. But what both men have in common is this chameleon ability to be all things to all men. Just as Blair’s accent was forever veering from Scots to public school to estuary according to his audience, so Obama is ‘Hussein’ to Muslims, a fellow person of colour to Hispanics, an authentic negro hero to blacks, and to Caucasians an honorary (and, indeed, half-) white person in the fine tradition of Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Tiger Woods and Lewis Hamilton. To no one is he an obvious threat.

...Most voters don’t (or at least for a long time didn’t) have a clue what’s wrong with Blair. It’s the same with Obama. By the time Americans begin to discover what they’ve let themselves in for, the damage will long since have been done.

...Like Blair, I’m sure he’s a fantastic bloke. Looks great in a suit, fabbo teeth, wonderfully charming. But what about that ragbag — an inevitability with all left-liberal administrations, especially when they control both houses of Congress — of scuzzballs, communists, class warriors, eco-loons, thugs, malcontents, and single-issue rabble-rousers that will sweep into power on his back? They’re the ones America really needs to worry about because they’re the ones who’ll be wreaking the most havoc while Obama stands in front masking their excesses with that reassuring ‘I’m not a socialist’ smile.

...In four, or more likely, eight years time, America is going to wake up one morning — rather as Britain did in the dog-end of the Blair years — with the most terrible hang- over, only to find its pockets empty, its savings gone, its property trashed to virtual worthlessness, its streets rife with crime and its traditional liberties circumscribed by nannying bureaucrats and pettifogging regulation, and it’s going to ask itself: ‘Huh? How did that happen? Did someone drug me? Why didn’t I see that one coming?’

As one who did and does see it coming, I find it hard to summon too much sympathy. It’s like Dr Faustus complaining when, having been granted his every earthly fantasy, the devil turns up at the end to steal away his soul. It’s like the citizens of Hamlyn complaining when, having welshed on their deal with the Pied Piper, he lures all their kids inside the mountain. You just want to give them all a good shake and say: ‘Did you think it was going to come free, this once-in-a-lifetime wonder deal you made with the mysterious dark stranger you met at the crossroads at midnight?’ In your dreams, America. In your dreams!

Christy said...

Let's see. Coal is very bad. That gets rid of all those West Virginia hillbillies who cling to guns and religion. Nuclear is bad; Obama's administration has already reduced funds to enrichment plants. Oil requires unacceptable wars. Natural gas is okay until Holden realizes that it is co-located with oil. That leaves the very expensive renewable power sources that only the kewl kids with lots of money can afford. ObamaCare will not treat lifestyle problems, so if you got pneumonia from not paying your heat bill, you are out of luck. That gets rid of the rest of us. So America becomes a theme park where the very wealthy life in their huge homes in vast pristine parks. Sounds like Eden to some; pre-revolutionary France to others.

Freeman Hunt said...

Yikes! Why is Holdren allowed anywhere near political power? Bad, Obama, bad bad.

Anonymous said...

Glad to see this posted here as well. I mentioned this clown last week in my blog, particularly after reading about this over on the always-fantastic Family Research Council.

Here's the FRC blog link:

and to my mention:

Tibore said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tibore said...

Ahhh... overdevelopment. 'Cause as God and the rest of the planet knows, it's better for health and the environment to be like the underdeveloped countries.


Anonymous said...

And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still fucking peasents as far as I can see

John Lennon may have meant those anti-capitalist words differently when he wrote them, but they look more likely to apply to our new situation of oligarchical feudalism if Obama has his way.  What does Holdren mean, other than poverty and narrow, pinched lives for the vast majority, presided over by a self-selecting elite?

Future politics should remain superficially democratic and republican, but in fact they look to become a show of mummery, resembling nothing so much as reminders of that grim, mafioso police state, the Most Serene Republic of the Venetians.

Sorry to jump so quickly into parallels with the past, but watching the self-destruction of our culture is an invitation to stroll through the Garden of History.  Shall we pick a nosegay from the decrepit Roman Empire?  Ah, there are some lovely blooms from the 7th century.  And my favorite of all, some perfect, small roses from the Middle Ages, when the relationship of the peasantry with their betters reached a pitch of perfection seldom seen since.

Back in the '70's I was personally friendly with the family of one of Paul Erlich's colleagues and occasional collaborators.  I have sat at a dinner table with the charming and effusive Professor Erlich.

I came away from knowing these people with an utter horror at their ever having practical, direct political influence.

Shall I talk about their very comfortable, large, Californian life-styles?  Shall I bring up the unpleasantness of the four children of one of the most effective preachers against overpopulation, not to mention his heated, enclosed swimming pool and large cars?

Of course, no never mind.  It's YOU, the...um....fucking peasant who are the Problem, and the sooner you realize it, the better.

Meanwhile, how about a dip in the pool before driving to LAX? There's a nice private jet waiting to take us to the global warming conference at Gstaad.

The Drill SGT said...

Christy said...That leaves the very expensive renewable power sources that only the kewl kids with lots of money can afford.

2 points

1. You left off those nasty fish killing dams that need to be busted.

2. Power grid worthy Renewable energy at our current technology state is a fantasy. Two reasons.

a. The Power industry talks about "base load" and "peak load". No renewable energy source is a reliable dependable answer to base load. If you plug in solar or wind, you still need those nasty coal plants ready to spin on a moments notice when you lose your renewables. so you have to pay capitial costs for coal and solar. dumb. Peak load is less of an issue in some parts of the country where summer AC drives peak load. There solar arguably can be used to handle peak load, because solar output is aligned well with peak demand. Not so for heating on a cold winter night.

b. there is no reasonable industrial strength power storage device that can be used to save renewable power for peak load periods or to satisfy base load requirements. The best we have is to pump water uphill into a lake and then generate hydro later.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Shall I talk about their very comfortable, large, Californian life-styles? Shall I bring up the unpleasantness of the four children of one of the most effective preachers against overpopulation, not to mention his heated, enclosed swimming pool and large cars?

Of course, no never mind. It's YOU, the...um....fucking peasant who are the Problem, and the sooner you realize it, the better.

The bitter irony is that those who are advocating this "de-development" would scream in horror if THEY actually had to live in the results of their schemes.

I live in a rather de-developed area of California. The sticks, the boon tullies...you know .....where the hillbillies live. No freeways. My town doesn't have a stop light, no Starbucks, no big box stores, the grocery store closes at 8 pm. Neighbors are acres away and in the de-de-developed areas, miles away. So are the police....miles and miles and miles away.

Now we do have all of the ammenities of civilization. High speed DSL, cell phones, satellite television, electricity and natural gas. We don't huddle in caves and make burnt offerings to Al Gore.

We see the arrogance of the Holdren types all the time, when they "visit" us natives in our natural environment while golfing, hunting, fishing, snow skiing. We live in their idealized version of some sort of pastoral de-developed fantasy. However, you can tell that they think they are superior and we are the peasants. You can also tell that they REALLY don't want to REALLY live in the de-developed areas and can hardly wait to get back to their McMansions, redwood decks and lattes.

They like the 'idea' that somewhere there is this pristine, beautiful playground that they can visit. They don't want to live in it however.

Unknown said...

DE-development requires DEpopulation, otherwise there will be a DEpression the likes we have never seen before.

I get Obama's agenda now. Now we know what is he impetus in passing tax and cap, and health care reform. It's the first two steps in making the US less competitive. We are surely on our way to DE-development.

EKatz said...

"They like the 'idea' that somewhere there is this pristine, beautiful playground that they can visit. They don't want to live in it however."

Exactly. Also reminds me of an article I bookmarked a while ago on carbon-offsetting schemes:


"Feeling guilty about your two-week break in Barbados, when you flew thousands of miles and lived it up with cocktails on sunlit beaches? Well, offset that guilt by sponsoring eco-friendly child labour in the developing world! Let an eight-year-old peasant pedal away your eco-remorse…"

Alex said...

It's like I keep trying to tell my friends - "the liberals want us living in caves" and now they know I'm not just blowing smoke up their ass.

The Drill SGT said...

Darfur, a case study in de-development

traditionalguy said...

OK, since de-development is really de-population, the thing makes since. The Plague in Europe was great for the survivors. The ownership of the wealth built up by the 100 million people was now owned by 60 million people. It was at last party time with free surplus stuff everywhere. The Germans went along with the Nazi Jew Murders in the 1930s and 1940s mostly to steal the rich Jews' stuff, all over conquered Europe. Now Obama and the WHO are setting the public relations stage for a "Flu Pandemic" that is not working fast or well enough. But its next suddenly morphed appearance may do the announce job and kill off the old and the young fast enough to free up their resources for re-distribution at the Obamanites whim (to themselves). How can we not value a plain old fashioned American like Sarah Palin in light of this situation. She is the available antidote to the Obama created Plagues of no energy supply, no good health care and no industrial base, all being wrought upon us by the Obamanites while we argue about who is too fat.

Chase said...

It all comes down to this basic question:

Why do people such as Holdren get to use the law and make policy to unilaterally impose their values on everyone else?

Scotty said...

If ever there was a discussion that called out for a Talking Heads song!

"Nothing but Flowers", a snippet

Once there were parking lots
Now it's a peaceful oasis
you got it, you got it

This was a Pizza Hut
Now it's all covered with daisies
you got it, you got it

I miss the honky tonks,
Dairy Queens, and 7-Elevens
you got it, you got it

And as things fell apart
Nobody paid much attention
you got it, you got it

I dream of cherry pies,
Candy bars, and chocolate chip cookies
you got it, you got it

We used to microwave
Now we just eat nuts and berries
you got it, you got it

This was a discount store,
Now it's turned into a cornfield
you got it, you got it

Don't leave me stranded here
I can't get used to this lifestyle

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Why do people such as Holdren get to use the law and make policy to unilaterally impose their values on everyone else?

Because elections have consequences?

Seriously, 75% of the voting public is too stupid to understand that. They vote with their brains disengaged and swayed by glittering generalities and the unwillingness or inability to look below the surface to see what is really being said or offered.

Now, because of the idiocy of the American public, we have an ideologue in power who can appoint these unelected and unaccountable ideologues to rule over us. Who can determine our lives and our deaths. Who can take away our livelihoods and the future of ourselves and our children.

And....we do nothing!! Bowing our backs to the yokes and accepting the descent into serfdom.

I believe that it isn't too late...yet... to stop the descent, without bloodshed.

David said...

Holdren is not an exception in the Obama administration. He is completely mainstream. The principal theme is that our betters will tell us how society is to be organized and punish us if we do not go along.

It is entirely possible that Obama will become the most dangerous and destructive President the nation has seen.

The Drill SGT said...

David said...
Holdren is not an exception in the Obama administration.

All of his environmental team are AGW believers and Statists

Elliott A said...

It is essential in the communist state for there to be a small ruling elite to look after the well being of the proletariat. We shouldn't also forget that Algore wrote in his infamous book that a tree was more valuable than a human life. Lastly, with people like him in positions of influence and power, we are de-developing by default; as a nation and as a society.

Shanna said...

These people are nuts. Gosh, let's elect somebody who comes out chicago (no way they'll be corrupt), who hangs out with whackjobs (no way he agrees!)...Nothing bad could come of that at all.

Some people can absolutley be known by the company they keep!

Bissage said...

The problem is simply that John Holdren watched only the last minute of "Who Mourns for Adonais."

Would it have hurt us . . . I wonder . . . just to have gathered . . . a few . . . laurel leaves?


Paul said...

"It is entirely possible that Obama will become the most dangerous and destructive President the nation has seen.'

Nah...ya think?

Some of us saw this coming right from the git go but we were labeled as right wing nut jobs.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Elliott A said...

All of these comments and the usual suspects are not defending the POTUS. Perhaps they are entering a prolonged period of denial.

dbp said...

Elliott A said...
All of these comments and the usual suspects are not defending the POTUS. Perhaps they are entering a prolonged period of denial.

Nah. They are furiously looking-up any kind of odd-ball beliefs that the Bush science advisers wrote about. Because then the weirdness of this Obama admin official will be OK.

Methadras said...

I am proven right. Again.

Mark said...

Still waiting for the "oops..." tag.

Unknown said...

Some people hoped™ he wasn't as leftward as he speechified. I hope like hell this doesn't represent his idea of a centrist philosophy. I don't hold much of it though.

Hector Owen said...

Another of these de-development guys is chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Drill SGT mentioned baseload. The head of FERC says thinking about baseload is an anachronism, and we can run the whole country on wind and solar.

Because wishing will make it so.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

De-development has a name. Poverty. Why don't people who advocate it, live it, and leave us alone.

At least the Franciscans and Dominicans lived what they preached.

hawkeyedjb said...

Let's see, a prolonged period of reduced economic output, let's call that a 'recession.'

A much longer period of reduced economic output, let's call that a 'depression.'

And a permanent state of reduced economic output? Let's call that 'de-devlopment.'

Pick the worst of the above choices and let's call that our 'policy.'

For want of a better word.

TitusLovesEveryoneBigHugs said...

Bring back Regent Law School Grads now!

I absolutely loved Monica Goodling asking all the illegal questions to candidates in interviews.

Also, isn't this obvious? The One is trying to get Todd Palin's vote.

jayne_cobb said...

It should be noted that he also advocated giving trees the right to sue.


Anonymous said...

Home is where i want to be
Pick me up and turn me round
I feel numb - burn with a weak heart
(so i) guess i must be having fun
The less we say about it the better
Make it up as we go along
Feet on the ground
Head in the sky
It's ok i know nothing's wrong...

The Drill SGT said...

Well Althouse,

These guys are clearly Pragmatists. Were they the ones you were hoping for?

You ought to profile Jon Wellinghoff next. (see Hector Owen's comment) He's a lawyer, and we all love lawyers.

He regulates US energy production distribution, and sale. (FERC)

He thinks we should not build any more coal or nuke plants because solar and wind are ready to handle all our future needs

F'ing idjiot!

g2loq said...

De-development must be implemented at the micro level to be effective. Start with Obama voting households. One at the time.... Lets get to work.

I'm Full of Soup said...

Drill Sgt said:

"F'ing idjiot!"

I'd suggest using the plural "Idiots" when discussing the most pragmatic administration ever!

Synova said...

So... what is Holdren a scientist of?

I mean... I GET what he's saying. The words are irrelevant to the macho posturing. Seriously. This is macho posturing... "Look at me!" he says, "I am not afraid of speaking the unspeakable! I am BRAVE! Look at and admire my bravery!"

Do you think it's anything else? Perhaps he thinks it will be mistaken for alpha-male-ship and get him laid.

The last few years we had some over-educated dummy in Australia talking about how we needed to put sterilization agents in the water of developed countries. We had some community college teacher from Texas (of all places) imagining a future depopulated by the Bird Flu... how grand! (If 80% of humans die, smarty pants, who is going to manufacture contraceptives? No more voluntary infertility, whoo hoo!)

Holdren is just another of the same type. Willing to speak the unspeakable, to bravely face the world from behind the shield of unemotional reason, science, and rationality.

Like *real* scientists... like the ones who describe the universe.

Wince said...

Obama's economic "development" plan reminds me of the promise of these ads.

And this reality.

traditionalguy said...

Titus...When President Palin selects her cabinet, do you think that Monica Goodling will be her Attorney General? If so, then hope and change is coming back for the last laugh.

amba said...

I love the way everyone's assuming his views haven't changed by a nanometer since 1973. Like yours haven't (if you're old enough). We do this when it suits us.

You might well disagree with the guy's views now (as might I), but find out what they are. Assuming they are identical to his 1973 views ... well, be ye judged by the same standard. (No doubt many of your views at that point were "Goo goo na na.")

Hector Owen said...

Amba -- Here's the PowerPoint from Holdren's 2007 address to the AAAS. (Main page -- direct link to PowerPoint.)

Population growth is a problem, affluence is a problem, and "pulsating mass of maggots" man Harrison Brown appears on slide 2, the apparent dedicatee. His views have not changed.

In 1973, as now, I favored more nuclear power, and took a lot of flak from liberal New England friends for that. You?

Hector Owen said...

Correction to the above: Main page = http://www.aaas.org/meetings/Annual_Meeting/2007_San_Fran/02_PE/pe_01_lectures.shtml

or maybe main page.