Althouse: "Sir, the conversation's over."

January 14, 2009

"Sir, the conversation's over."

(Via Volokh Conspiracy.)

58 comments:

reader_iam said...: Damn near peed. Damn near peed. Damn near peed.

...

...

...; 1/14/09, 10:50 AM
chuck b. said...: I've never gotten a speeding tickets, or any tickets. I'm a very good driver.

You know what I hate? People who don't know how to make a left turn. Here's a tip: don't turn your wheel until your vehicle is all the way in the intersection. It will make a big difference. You'll see.

Thing I hate number 2 is people who don't exercise their right-of-way and sit there staring at me like they don't know what I'm going to do. I'm waiting for you to go, asswipe. You got here first, it's your turn. Go. Move!; 1/14/09, 11:02 AM
TMink said...: The officer spoke truth.

The conversation was indeed over.

But not the event!

Trey; 1/14/09, 11:12 AM
Smilin' Jack said...: "Sir, the conversation's over."

"It is now, pig."; 1/14/09, 11:23 AM
Expat(ish) said...: Where I live there is a special category of "you are going to federal pound you in the *ss prison" category for attacking an officer with a car.

But if I were this guy I'd just insist on a jury trial and show the video.

-XC; 1/14/09, 11:27 AM
Michael Haz said...: Funny? Maybe.

I lost a younger brother who was a municipal police officer to an on-the-job motor vehicle accident, so I don't see much humor in the vid.

His car was t-boned by a fleeing felon who thought it would be a good idea to swing around and ram the car that was pursuing him. Hit the driver's door at speed.; 1/14/09, 11:31 AM
Justin said...: chuck b. said...

Thing I hate number 2 is people who don't exercise their right-of-way and sit there staring at me like they don't know what I'm going to do. I'm waiting for you to go, asswipe. You got here first, it's your turn. Go. Move!

Agreed. Sometimes people think they're being nice by yielding the right-of-way to someone else. All they do is confuse the situation.; 1/14/09, 11:43 AM
SteveR said...: I'm kinda with Michael H, personal experience does not make this an area where I can easily find humor.

BTW, in case anyone wonders, for future reference, if you are the victim of a hit and run accident, do yourself a favor and in spite of whatever great evidence there appears to be, assume there's absolutely no chance it will be solved. Just get hope out of the way quick.; 1/14/09, 11:44 AM
kjbe said...: Sorry for your loss, MH.

Rightous anger is never a good reaction to anything.; 1/14/09, 11:46 AM
Anonymous said...: I was on the Failblog yesterday and saw this one here.

This is how I see Bob Herbert/Mortimer Brezney/hdhouse/Alpha Liberal and Michael watching a Republican campaign ad or a Sarah Palin speech.; 1/14/09, 11:47 AM
Tibore said...: Oh. My. God. Did the driver do that on purpose??

Retaliation like that is why police officers approach everybody firmly with a tinge of suspicion. And I hate to say it, but that tinge of suspicion is often warranted. This video is blatant proof of that.; 1/14/09, 11:49 AM
save_the_rustbelt said...: I've never been a policeman, but I have been the guy who set out the orange barrels and who held the red flag on highway construction projects.

Wow, people are stupid. Some of them are mean. Some are stupid and mean.; 1/14/09, 11:54 AM
Anonymous said...: Tibore said...Oh. My. God. Did the driver do that on purpose??

My guess is no. He's probably just an inexperienced driver in a car with a sticky gas pedal.; 1/14/09, 11:59 AM
Chip Ahoy said...: This is wrong on so many levels. But on the strictly verbal level, the phrase, "This conversation is over," is a phrase that properly would be uttered only once, otherwise it's self-contradicted.; 1/14/09, 12:01 PM
George M. Spencer said...: jderipper--

I think that weatherman in the video is Butterfly McQueen's brother.; 1/14/09, 12:02 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Tibore said...Oh. My. God. Did the driver do that on purpose??

My guess is no. He's probably just an inexperienced driver in a car with a sticky gas pedal.

Well in order to drive up on top of another car, he would have had to have floored it. Whether it was on purpose or not, he should be horsewhipped.; 1/14/09, 12:06 PM
Anonymous said...: He called for an ambulance...foreshadow...foreshadow...before he checked on the guy.; 1/14/09, 12:16 PM
Sprezzatura said...: Three letters:

SRX

Or, the Passport SR7 plus optional laser shifter, to get to the same point.

Best $2k ever spent on a car.; 1/14/09, 12:17 PM
Sprezzatura said...: That's installed.; 1/14/09, 12:17 PM
TitusRenalFailure said...: the video made me horny.; 1/14/09, 12:19 PM
Adelante4 said...: Thats a brilliant video! Just brilliant.

King Size Memory Foam; 1/14/09, 12:23 PM
Henry said...: But on the strictly verbal level, the phrase, "This conversation is over," is a phrase that properly would be uttered only once, otherwise it's self-contradicted.

You don't have kids, do you? ;); 1/14/09, 12:25 PM
Patm said...: My guess is he was nervous about the ticket and just put it in the wrong gear.; 1/14/09, 12:27 PM
Joe said...: My guess is he was nervous about the ticket and just put it in the wrong gear.

I was thinking that, but the pattern of his tail light indicate otherwise as does the way he keeps revving the engine.; 1/14/09, 12:47 PM
Michael Haz said...: Windbag said: "He called for an ambulance...foreshadow...foreshadow...before he checked on the guy."

Did you watch the vid? The driver's car hit the police car in the windshield and broke it. The officer was calling for an ambulance for himself.; 1/14/09, 12:49 PM
Sigivald said...: He called for an ambulance...foreshadow...foreshadow...before he checked on the guy.

Perhaps because he had been injured himself?

Crazy thought, I know - it's so much more fun to assume impending police brutality.; 1/14/09, 12:55 PM
John Burgess said...: jdeeripper: I don't think 'inexperience' is the excuse. Senility might be, though.

From the suburban Chicago Daily Herald (Scroll down at the link):

---
We've seen the tape, and we're still not sure how he did it: It is not overstating things to say that on May 23 Henry Raskin had a very bad day.

It all started when Raskin, 70, was pulled over in Buffalo Grove, where the officer told him he was clocked doing 58 on a 35 mph road.

Raskin got his ticket. And then, eager to leave, he hit the gas to take off on Dundee Road.

What Raskin didn't account for was that his car's gears were in reverse.

But instead of flying backward and smashing the front of the squad car dead on, somehow the Toyota Camry backed on top of the Buffalo Grove police car.

Raskin was cited for reckless driving. He was also fined $220 and ordered to traffic safety school.
---

There's an interesting discussion on it at Volokh, as our host indicated.; 1/14/09, 1:08 PM
KCFleming said...: My first thought, as a geriatrician, was How old is the driver?

We've had a few deaths in this town by older drivers on the wrong side of the highway, going full speed, and the more common "brakes failed" excuse when gramps jams his foot on the "brake" and dangit the damn thing accelerates.

3 words:
Mental status exam.; 1/14/09, 1:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Did you watch the vid? The driver's car hit the police car in the windshield and broke it. The officer was calling for an ambulance for himself.

Michael H, yes, I watched the video. I attempted a subtle joke, obviously lost on you. Did you watch the video? It isn't clear from it that he's calling an ambulance for himself; you've read that into the incident. Lighten up, huh?

Crazy thought, I know - it's so much more fun to assume impending police brutality.

Sigivald, sigh...see comment I made to Michael H, particularly the lighten up part. You do get partial credit for being able to see the implied impending ass-whupping. Maybe next time, I can insert a smiley face, so you can tell when I'm joking and you won't have to get upset?

Sheesh.; 1/14/09, 1:26 PM
Ralph L said...: Under the circumstances, the cop is remarkably cool. In a fictional cop show, he would stomp his ass, literally.

Who knew a Camry would have enough torque to do that?; 1/14/09, 1:26 PM
Meade said...: "You don't have kids, do you? ;)"

Whether he has kids or not, Chip's point applies to child rearing.

Never argue with a child. Tell your child what you have decided and what you expect from him. Never tell your child what is going to happen and then end your statement with "okay?" We're going to go the store and then, if you are well behaved, we will go to the park so you can play. Okay? Nnno. You think you are being nice and nice will mean that your child will like you. He won't. He will hate you for giving him nothing to push up against and when he's twenty, he will know that you are a pussy.

Be the parent. Be the authority. Be sure. Conversation over.; 1/14/09, 1:27 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Only cited for reckless driving? Wow. I thought it was attempted murder. His car just happened to be in reverse? Why? When would he have accidentally put it in reverse? And if he thought he was pulling out, why did he seemingly floor it? Why did he keep revving after he was in the windshield?

I didn't think it was funny. I thought it was quite terrifying, especially with the continued revving.; 1/14/09, 1:41 PM
blake said...: But if I were this guy I'd just insist on a jury trial and show the video.

I'd vote to convict.

The guy got a $220 fine and has to attend a safety class? Seriously?

Seems to me if it were deliberate (which I guess they determined it wasn't), he should be in jail.

If accidental, he shouldn't be driving.; 1/14/09, 1:41 PM
Henry said...: We've had a few deaths in this town by older drivers on the wrong side of the highway, going full speed, and the more common "brakes failed" excuse when gramps jams his foot on the "brake" and dangit the damn thing accelerates.

Ah yes, the "unexpected acceleration syndrome" that just about did in Audi.; 1/14/09, 1:43 PM
Henry said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/14/09, 1:46 PM
Henry said...: Also, put me in Michael_H's camp in terms of finding this chilling rather than funny.

A underground parking lot attendant once rear-ended a car he into my front bumper and hood. I was sitting in my car at the time, and had just passed between the two cars to get there.; 1/14/09, 1:49 PM
Henry said...: Here's P.J. O'Rourke on the Audi 5000 and its troubles with "pedal misapplication":

"Yes the dumb buggers stepped on the gas instead of the brakes. These 'sudden-accelleration incidents' or SAIs closely resemble those sudden-unintelligence incidents, or SUIs, that many of us have experienced with our automobiles, especially when we were in our teens or early twenties...."

In another article on the Audi it was noted that after some "sudden acceleration incidents" it was not uncommon for the gas pedal to be bent. People pressed the wrong pedal, panicked, and pressed harder.; 1/14/09, 2:04 PM
Jen Bradford said...: If he was rattled about getting the ticket, I would think he'd be moving gingerly, even in the wrong direction. Too bad there isn't a video of this from another angle to see how/why the car made it onto the hood. Or better yet, a shot of the crazy driver's face as he continues to gun the engine. Is there maniacal laughter we're not hearing?; 1/14/09, 2:13 PM
KCFleming said...: "His car just happened to be in reverse? Why?"
Just a guess, but I see cognitive impairment. Notice he puts his left turn signal on, shifts, and puts the gas pedal on. I think he was going to peel out, to show anger, and is mildly demented and because he was flustered, put it in the wrong gear.

"And if he thought he was pulling out, why did he seemingly floor it? Why did he keep revving after he was in the windshield?"
He panicked and tried to get off the car.
Here's the conversation:
"POLICE OFFICER: I need an ambulance ... I've just been involved in an accident ... [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 555 West Dundee (Road).

POLICE OFFICER TO DRIVER: Turn the car off. Turn the car off. Turn the car off ... Turn the car off!

DRIVER: The whole thing?

POLICE OFFICER: Turn the car off!"

See? "The whole thing?" Only a demented soul, or a sixth grader, would say that.

I suspect Alzheimer's disease.; 1/14/09, 2:24 PM
Larry J said...: Ah yes, the "unexpected acceleration syndrome" that just about did in Audi.

...with the help of an Audi that had been rigged to floor itself for "60 Minutes." I saw that episode but don't watch CBS News programs anymore. It's hard to give any credibility to the "fake but accurate" news division.; 1/14/09, 2:28 PM
Unknown said...: Here's a Failblog video Mickey Rourke might like and does not involve cops. Well, not necessarily.; 1/14/09, 2:38 PM
KLDAVIS said...: "Ann Althouse said...
Only cited for reckless driving? Wow. I thought it was attempted murder. His car just happened to be in reverse? Why? When would he have accidentally put it in reverse? And if he thought he was pulling out, why did he seemingly floor it? Why did he keep revving after he was in the windshield?"

The most relevant factor, I think, is that the driver is 70 years old.

To answer your questions:

Reverse is usually between park and drive.

If you read the section from the local paper that someone else posted, it states he was on Dundee Road, a pretty major thoroughfare. Major enough that he'd need to get up to speed very quickly not to be rear-ended when pulling away.

After he was on top of the cop car, it's likely he was forced forward and that his leg was forced against the gas pedal by the angle, gravity or the impact. Or, perhaps the accelerator was stuck, or he thought he was stomping the break, or he was simply confused and in shock.

Is it possible he was acting with malice? I guess so, but that didn't cross my mind when I saw the video. I assumed he was elderly or stupid.; 1/14/09, 3:16 PM
DaLawGiver said...: So who pays for the damage to the cop car?

Old person's insurance company?

My mom is 85 and still drives but if you are over 70 and have an accident like that they should permanently take your license away.; 1/14/09, 3:37 PM
traditionalguy said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/14/09, 3:43 PM
Anonymous said...: John Burgess said...jdeeripper: I don't think 'inexperience' is the excuse. Senility might be, though.

From the suburban Chicago Daily Herald (Scroll down at the link):

Here are some photos of Henry Raskin's achievement.; 1/14/09, 3:43 PM
KCFleming said...: Old people can be pretty funny, until someone puts an eye out.; 1/14/09, 3:53 PM
Tibore said...: Ok, all I know is that this old guy's lucky he didn't get tazered or worse by a pissed off cop thinking the old man was trying to kill him.

I don't think I'd have the judgement to be calm in situations like that. Thank God I'm not a cop. I would've presumed the worst and ordered the old guy out at gunpoint. Which, if the allegations about the fellow being confused are accurate, would have been the wrong thing to do.

Seriously, police officers are pretty strict when they have reason to believe that physical harm is a possibility. I recall one time, way back when I was a student, I was pulled over. I found out much later from the policemen that did this that the correct story behind why they did so was that someone had shot out the windows of a white subcompact of year and make matching my car i.e. someone had taken a BB gun and destroyed someone's windows near a certain intersection. Unfortunately, the story that got to the officers at the time was that someone was shooting out of the windows of a white subcompact, yadda yadda. Therefore, they thought I was a guy cruising around shooting a gun (wasn't clear at first it was a BB gun) out my window.

Two cruisers, and I heard the siren of a 3rd. And they were behind their doors with the shotguns out. Jesus Christ, I damn near laid a brick on my seat.

Anyway, the whole point of that is that police officers use firmness from the get-go to discourage force in return. Which means that, in situations where the intent is not so obvious, force might end up being used just as a precautionary measure. Much to the detriment of poor old fellows like that driver in the video. He's seriously lucky that the officer reacted properly. Because not everyone's going to have that same degree of cool judgement.; 1/14/09, 4:31 PM
AllenS said...: Obviously, the driver has issues.; 1/14/09, 4:32 PM
John Burgess said...: jdeeripper: Thanks for the additional photos.

Lawgiver: As I'm getting closer to 70 every day, and further from 60, I'm going to push back against automatically pulling licenses.

I will back mandatory road/eye/book tests post-70, though. At every renewal.

Were my license to be pulled merely because I reached 70, it would certainly cramp my life. I'd have to move, for one thing, either into a too-expensive downtown apartment or an even more expensive nursing home. I'm not planning (or budgeting for) either.

I'll happily give up the license before I become a hazard, but in my neck of Florida, there's more danger from the young-and-lickered-up drivers than the moldy oldies.; 1/14/09, 4:34 PM
KCFleming said...: Screw license-yanking.

Sell safer cars. Big bumper cars would be cool. Increase independence, don't constrain it.; 1/14/09, 4:53 PM
Wince said...: Two macro observations about our problems today:

1.) I think we'll see more of this even from sane people if the government adopts more of the nonsense regulation under consideration.

2.) The cop calls for an ambulance, presumably for himself. Whether or not this officer was hurt, and he may have been, I've never seen a "public servant" pass-up the "opportunity" for "medical" attention in the line of work.; 1/14/09, 5:32 PM
traditionalguy said...: This guy either knew the Judge or his family name was Zantzinger. Now I wonder do the local Police watch for him to get payback, or do they avoid ever arresting him again to save on wear and tear? Come to think of it, that sounds like the policy choice facing Obama and Hillary in the middle east.; 1/14/09, 5:39 PM
Sprezzatura said...: I assumed he was elderly or stupid.

Both?

Not that 70 is super old...as McCain and his mother remind us.; 1/14/09, 6:17 PM
DaLawGiver said...: Lawgiver: As I'm getting closer to 70 every day, and further from 60, I'm going to push back against automatically pulling licenses.

Yeah,

That's a tough one and I understand. As I said my mom is 85 and still drives and I would hate to take that freedom away from her but if she did something like that I would want her license revoked. My Dad is 85 also, five years ago he was driving my 90 year old aunt home when he pulled out into traffic and got hit. He was OK but my aunt never got out of the hospital. It just sucks getting old.; 1/14/09, 7:47 PM
Anonymous said...: "Why did he keep revving after he was in the windshield?"

That's a good question, though I am guessing the driver was confused and forgot to let go.

My evidence: The cop's behavior. He had just got done talking to the angry old man, and when he was hit, he seemed to realize it was because the man made a huge mistake. He was calm and didn't feel threatened, even though many would think a car acting like that was malicious.

He had the best view of the man's mental situation prior to the accident. That's probably why the charges were so light, too.; 1/14/09, 9:58 PM
Nichevo said...: "So the conversation's over, is it, eh, sonny?"; 1/14/09, 10:24 PM
rhhardin said...: It's another case of a police-caused accident, then.

Don't bother the traffic and it won't bother you.; 1/14/09, 10:24 PM
traditionalguy said...: This brave senior man of the people just woke up one morning and said,"I wont take it any longer". He is now part of the Senior Weathermen. The thug police pig is simply a representative of the Traffic Police Ruling Class and must be killed to kick-off the speeders revolution. He maybe driving to DC today to hail his new leader, so watchout all you radar gun snipers infesting the Interstates.; 1/15/09, 7:58 AM