Verso said...I just want to clear up a misconception, because I'm starting to see it jump into the comments in other posts. I'm not upset by or trying to control people who call me right-leaning/right-winger/conservative. There's nothing for me to do, nothing for me to deny or accept. I'm just saying what I have to say at any given moment, which is sometimes to note what other people say about me and sometimes to express amusement at all the liberal things I can say and still be considered a right-winger. And let me say now that one thing I love about being a right-winger in the sense that I'm said to be a right-winger is this amazingly wide range of freedom of opinion it provides. There is no such liberation for the lefty.
Only the ABA would call this place "right leaning."
LOL! I hate to break it to you, but EVERYBODY calls "this place" right leaning. The only people who deny it are Althouse herself, and her loyal conservative followers.
Why is this so hard to accept?...
December 3, 2008
About that time the ABA Journal called me "right-leaning, at a minimum."
I highlighted that characterization in this post the other day, and I got some comments like this:
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Frankly, if Ann was a registered Republican, she'd fall into the RINO ranks.
There is no such liberation for the lefty.
Sure there is. We won everything. It was in spite of you and we could care less who you voted for, or why.
Garage, you haven't understood the sentence. Please reread.
"Such" has meaning.
"And let me say now that one thing I love about being a right-winger in the sense that I'm said to be a right-winger is this amazingly wide range of freedom of opinion it provides. There is no such liberation for the lefty"
All the great artists are inherently right-wing. duh.
garage: winning does not equal liberation. Thinking it does is what keeps lefties stuck.
As a newbie to this blog, I am not up to speed Althousian history. Ms. Althouse lives in Madison and works at the UW...places of extreme homogeneous thought. It's always more fun and intellectually stimulating to have an idea different than the predictable Madison/UW mindset.
As far as garage's statement of who could care less about who Ms. Althouse voted for, Obama won't win relection without voters like her.
Ann said, ...one thing I love about being a right-winger in the sense that I'm said to be a right-winger is this amazingly wide range of freedom of opinion it provides. There is no such liberation for the lefty.
You're right that there is a vast expanse of ideological territory between the 50 yard line on the political spectrum and the ultra-conservative end zone. And while I do think you are a conservative, you're (obviously) nowhere near G. Gordon Liddy or Oliver North.
But I do disagree that "there is no such liberation" for liberals. I think you may feel this way because you are a university professor (a liberal environment) in Madison, Wisconsin (an ultra-liberal city). If you lived almost anywhere else, conservative utterances would not feel nearly so rebellious. I live in circumstances that are precisely your opposite: I work in a Fortune 50 corporation (a conservative environment) in a small, conservative town. For you, any hint of conservatism is regarded as heresy. Likewise for me, any hint of liberal thought is considered a sign of dangerous disloyalty to "the Corporation," "the Community," and (see ricpic, holdfast) "the Nation."
Put much more simply: There's just as much toleration for liberal views in my job/city as there is for conservative views in your job/city.
Ms. Althouse lives in Madison and works at the UW...places of extreme homogeneous thought. It's always more fun and intellectually stimulating to have an idea different than the predictable Madison/UW mindset.
Thank you. Far more cleaerly expressed than my own attempt to say the same thing. And welcome to the blog. (I'm the official greeter. ;)
"Sure there is. We won everything. It was in spite of you and we could care less who you voted for, or why."
You voted for Hillary Clinton in the primaries. FAIL.
But I'm glad that you "could care less" who we voted for. If you couldn't care less I'd begin to think that your filthy party was lying about that whole coming-together-post-partisan-change-we-can-believe-in bill of goods you hoisted on the voters.
Still, keep up the "we won everything" and "we don't care about you" shtick in a country that remains evenly divided between the two parties. I'm sure it will help you in two years.
"Likewise for me, any hint of liberal thought is considered a sign of dangerous disloyalty to "the Corporation," "the Community," and (see ricpic, holdfast) "the Nation."
Althouse doesn't hide her "heretical" views. You do. Because you're a simpering coward who cares more about making a buck than your so-called principles.
Palladian erroneously said, a country that remains evenly divided between the two parties.
Palladian, you might want to check that evenly divided thing.
And as far as "that whole coming-together-post-partisan-change" thing goes, again, I don't know how closely you follow the news, but, so far, Obama's moderate appointments have earned a lot of praise from Republicans and conservatives. If he keeps it up, we really might be able to end the bitter division that has characterized our nation since Republicans declared (culture) war on America at the 1992 Republican convention.
Palladian said, Althouse doesn't hide her "heretical" views. You do. Because you're a simpering coward who cares more about making a buck than your so-called principles.
Wow, you are really angry.
The fact that you've claimed as your own, this gap between “all the liberal things” that you say and what the majority around here, perceive you as saying makes for a very interesting and rich conversation every day. Thanks.
I would disagree, and say that, if one doesn’t feel trapped or confined by an ideology, then no liberation is needed. You want to hear from more ports – more power to you.
"Wow, you are really angry."
Not really. What I write and how I feel aren't necessarily correlated. I'm sure simpler minds like yours have difficulty understanding such things.
You're just a stupid annoying twat and I like making fun of you. It's nothing to do with anger.
The Stalinists considered Trotsky to be right wing. Or maybe it was the other way around.
Ann Althouse the Jesse Jackson/Barack Obama voting, pro-gay, pro-choice on abortion, coffee house Mac user is only considered right wing because she voted for Bush over Kerry mainly due to not wanting to lose the Iraq war I guess and because some generation X feminist superskanks went PMS on her.
But it's a good reputation because it draws an eclectic crowd.
I get a kick out of people who proclaim Ann is conservative without taking the time to read here on a regular basis.
What is that expression, reductio ad absurdum? Ya, Ann must be conservative because she voted for GWB! Wait, I think I can make a list of the
"conservative" positions Ann holds:
1. We should win the War in Iraq.
2. Congress should approve qualified candidates for judicial and other appointments, regardless of ideology.
3. The Alternative Minimum Tax is bad.
(Personally, I don't believe that any of these three points belong to conservatives alone -- they're just common sense.)
As far as I can tell, Ann is in favor of gay marriage, abortion rights, gays in the military, affirmative action, and economic redistribution. (I could be wrong about that last one.) Anyone who enjoys the Clintons as much as Ann does isn't "right-leaning."
But I do disagree that "there is no such liberation" for liberals.
When I was recently kicked out of a liberal children's playgroup because the organizer found my blog, a couple people excoriated me on the playgroup's online messageboard for being pro-life. That, they claimed, was a liberal litmus test, and no one who veered from the pro-choice position could be tolerated.
Fine, except that the group included several politically liberal pro-lifers. I don't think they were feeling the liberal liberation.
Palladian said, Not really. What I write and how I feel aren't necessarily correlated. I'm sure simpler minds like yours have difficulty understanding such things. You're just a stupid annoying twat and I like making fun of you. It's nothing to do with anger.
Okay, good. I'm glad you're not as miserable as you sound. And I'm glad you have someone to take your not-anger out on.
Ann is not a right winger. She's a black leather jackbooted wearing fascist.
I think you should post pictures of you in your black leather jackboots and just come clean.
Anyone who appreciates and seeks facts and believes in looking at the data is now called a conservative or right leaning.
The left has become the tyranny of ideology at the expense of results and facts.
Ann often appeals to the data, so she must be right leaning!
Trey
In my experience, Palladian is a thoughful poster who has tolerated much disagreement between the two of us. Our discourse has never deteriorated past jibes.
I would not cast him off so quickly, you might lose a potential friend and thoughtful sparring partner.
Trey
Well, that confirms it. Only a right-winger would think left-wingers don't have freedom to think or a variety of views.
And isn't it the Republicans right now who are eating each other alive over whether they need to be believers? It just goes to show you: there are True Believers of all stripes.
But there are just as clearly free thinkers of all stripes, Professor.
When I was recently kicked out of a liberal children's playgroup because the organizer found my blog, a couple people excoriated me on the playgroup's online messageboard for being pro-life. That, they claimed, was a liberal litmus test, and no one who veered from the pro-choice position could be tolerated.
Good grief, that's terrible that they kicked you out of the group! I'm sorry that happened. It's terrible behavior on the part of those responsible.
"There is no such liberation for the lefty."
Maybe it's stupid, broad generalizations like this that make you sound like a right-winger. Or perhaps it's your support for the Bush Administration's subversion of the Geneva Conventions and the war in Iraq. Or maybe it's the fact that you attacked Obama throughout the year and only voted for him in the primary because you hate Hillary so much and in the general election because you hate supporting the loser.
Steve, your kind of post is EXACTLY what Ann was writing about. I imagine that it was unintentional, but that kind of nasty, derisive tone used toward your ally is harmful to you guys. And sadly, it is an epidemic.
Trey
I just pinched a loaf.
There was an entirely formed ziti in my loaf. Actually it wasn't in my loaf it was seperate and swimming on its own.
I must of wolfed down that ziti and it went through my system whole-fascinating.
Verso:
(I'm the official greeter. ;)
USURPER!
I am the, . . . . . .
wait a minute . . . .
uh, hold on . . . . . . . .
never mind.
ummmmm, ziti, aaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhh . . . . .
Steve wrote: "Maybe it's stupid, broad generalizations like this that make you sound like a right-winger. Now I'm going to conflate issues, misrepresent your views, and attack your motives."
Steve, you do realize, I hope, that you are adding evidence to support Ann's stupid, broad generalization.
Actually I think Verso has a good point (10:29). Whether or not one is an iconoclast is partly determined by social context.
But there is also the iconoclasm of thinking.
Among my friends and relations, some I can talk politics with and and some I can't. I have one relative by marriage who is a religious reactionary and another who is a bleeding heart liberal. Both are willing to entertain views that are not their own. I can argue with them from my own weird middle ground and no one gets bent out of shape.
Must we now all think of Titus when presented with ziti? Titi.
When I was recently kicked out of a liberal children's playgroup because the organizer found my blog
LOL. If your blog is anything like your comments, they were right to ban you.
Steve @11:55 nailed it.
My little contribution here.
Next time each of you have ziti you will think of me.
My work is done.
I think Henry's right that exclusionary ideologues are far from a feature that either "the left" or "the right" can lay sole claim to. But one of those sides did make a habit out of furthering a broadside "culture war" assault on society at large that the other side merely restricted to its largely like-minded colleagues in academia and the like.
Perhaps if I was old enough to remember the 1960s, I'd see it differently. But I think Andrew Sullivan is right. The culture wars are becoming an anachronistic habit increasingly clung to by the dysfunctional baby-boomers. Of course, I'm sure that those who make a career out of political confrontation and the overdramatization and/or victimology thereof will have an interest in seeing it differently.
The question is will you tell your dinner companion why you are laughing at their or your ziti?
What I do find fascinating is all the interest in "what Althouse is".
Is she this or that or this leaning or that leaning.
Get over it people. You must enjoy her otherwise you wouldn't be here.
What I do find fascinating is all the interest in "what Althouse is".
Especially on her part.
Aww...that's adorable, Meade!
There is no such liberation for the lefty.
Sure there is. We won everything
Garage's thought sounds better in the original German: Sieg macht Frei
I always wondered how a Culture War could declare a winner. Maybe victory means the end of spoken opinions from the enemy camp. So free speech becomes the test. How much free speech shall be tolerated? Ann's love of spoken/written speech makes her into a very dangerous person to either side seeking a victory. Ann's freedom is the most attractive and elegant appeal to her Blog.
Althaus macht Frei!
But I'm glad that you "could care less" who we voted for. If you couldn't care less I'd begin to think that your filthy party was lying about that whole coming-together-post-partisan-change-we-can-believe-in bill of goods you hoisted on the voters.
Oh c'mon and gimme a hug you lovable but miserable old prick. And thanks, but no thanks about taking your advice about not talking smack after my party won and yours lost. Think I'll stick with what's winning. Just sayin!
"What I do find fascinating is all the interest in "what Althouse is"."
Althouse. We can't define her, but we know her when we see her.
Garage you won't get a tag unless you learn to play nice with others.
Or discuss the contents of your loaf.
Just sayn.
I always wanted to throw a filthy party.
You know it is a sexy party only with everybody covered in mud or jello or something.
Oh wait, that's what they used to do in the upstairs room at the Pussycat Lounge.
Nevermind.
That's where you could get the "Shower" Lap Dance. They would throw you in the mud with the dancers and you would roll around in the kiddie pool in the mud. Then they would take you into this shower to soap up and "stuff."
It was usually for the groom at his bachelor party.
I was once the groom for six weeks in a row.
Ah the eighties! Sigh.
I could contribute some Ziti to your party troop?
Garage you won't get a tag unless you learn to play nice with others.
But yet Verso gets a tag. The humiliation continues.
Watch the whining, garage. Whiners bore her.
Can you do funny? If you make her laugh, even if you don't get a tag, she might toss you an lol which could sustain you until you can come up with something insightful or entertaining or just plain outrageously stupid.
Good luck and don't ever give up.
You should have that scoliosis checked out.
Thanks Meade. I needed that.
for goodness sake
althouse is a fifty something with bleach blonde hair who lives in a university town. plus a state capitol to boot. She has slight shoulders. that's all that i can make of the physical nature.
university towns are unique. they are cool for a year or so because there is lots of diversity and chances to learn or do anything from African drumming to middle Eastern belly dancing to bicycle races to to watching all those Orientals play violins instead of just paw fiddlin. And they have lots of shops and restaurants where youcan get a multitude of foreign foods like only available in larger cities such as New York and Chicago. BUT you can only take so much of the people at the local food coop talking the usual university gab and arguing politics and issues that you wish… well you wish you could… you could just shake them and say, man, just do something instead of thinking.
well, anyway that is what a university town is to outsiders who aren't very academically minded. I've got a consensus of three people on that.
Signed,
I thought garage's "footprints on their asses" line was pretty funny, yesterday.
Garage you are too nice a guy to get a tag like Verso did. He got his under the douche bag rules.
Its like the Jordan rules but only for douche bags. The professor gives tags to those who really hammer her like Verso and Doyle.
But don't worry, I am sure you will get a tag when you least expect it and in an uncomfortable listing that might make you crazy.
I can see it now:
Bedwetting, bestiality, flatulence, Garage Mahal.
You're right, Darcy, footprints on their asses was funny. Taggably funny? One never knows. The professor can be an enigmatically capricious and cruel blog mistress.
I feel sure that one day garage will win his prize tag. He's a persistent little bastard and I say that with sincere admiration.
I always liked Darcy for some reason. Maybe that Midwestern sensibilities?
Trooper
Not quite sure where you were going with those tags, but I draw the line with potty games with beasts man.
You know in restrospect you are right Garage. That would be RH Hardins tag line.
How about this then:
Hillary, bad cheese, ice fishing, Garage Mahal.
Of course you like Darcy, garage. Who doesn't? Notice she never gets all down in the mouth and mopey about this or that or the other. Darcy has that Northern Girl gritty optimism. I'm sure she keeps her boyfriend warm at night. Plus, she can turn the world on with her Northern Girl smile. Universally likable.
More like "right-leaning, at a maximum."
Of course you like Darcy, garage. Who doesn't?
Plus, she plays euchre for money. What more could a man want?
for me, any hint of liberal thought is considered a sign of dangerous disloyalty to "the Corporation," Verso.
Late to the conversation, and new to boot (grins & waves), but I can't quite believe this is literally true. Does your community not "celebrate diversity"? Your corporation has no "anti-discrimination" initiatives? No human resources personnel who focus on "underrepresented groups"? No neighbors, as I have, for instance, who wistfully say, "a little more diversity would be nice . . . ."
In my (fortunately somewhat limited) experience, large corporations have emphatically embraced the mantra of diversity and tolerate precious little dissent from that orthodoxy. Personally, I classify "diversity" and "multiculturalism" as inherently liberal ideas. YMM, of course, V
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