8:11: After they blame each other for the financial crisis, Obama tells us we don't want to hear them blaming each other. We just want to know how to stay in our homes and pay our bills. McCain sounds a little shaky and winded. He's wearing a shiny dark suit and a pink and red striped tie. Obama -- in an unshiny suit and a blue-purple tie -- seems relaxed. He's got a casual way of sitting on the stool.
8:20: The first 3 questions have been about the crisis, the third being, quite sensibly: How can we trust you guys who let us get into this trouble in the first place? McCain points to his record, and repeatedly tells us he's reached across the aisle. Does that make you trustworthy? The 2 men seem mainly to be recycling their old talking points more than speaking directly to the crisis.
8:28: An old woman emails in her demand that people be asked to make sacrifices. McCain repeats his ideas about cutting spending, and makes a second reference to an overhead projector that Obama procured for the Chicago planetarium. Again with the earmarks. What was the dollar figure on earmarks? I heard $1 billion. That seems like nothing compared to the $750 billion bailout. And what is the sacrifice? Not getting more earmarks? Obama reminds us of the way Bush told us after 9/11 to "go out and shop." Bush, it seems, could have demanded sacrifices, but Obama doesn't say what we should have sacrificed then or now, though he does advise us to be energy efficient. It's really not too inspiring, but I think Obama is trying to seem cool, solid, and not at all exciting. In the background, we see McCain writing, awkwardly, on a note pad, and maybe some of us think about McCain's sacrifices.
8:37: Tom Brokaw is in control! Obama will not be permitted to say something about taxes because "it's important." Ha ha. As I was writing "it's important," O said "it's important" again.
8:41: McCain thinks he's making a big funny by saying "I'll answer the question!" Because, you know, Obama didn't want to go on to the next question before. No one laughs, but he looks so happy with his wisecracks. "Too many lobbyists workin' there," he says, and I think he's trying to sound Palinesque.
8:44: McCain's plan seems to be to sound passionate and caring. And to say "Lieberman" frequently.
8:46: Jac is live-blogging too: "9:30 - Cringe-inducing word choice from Obama: "A lot of you remember the tragedy of 9/11..." He can safely assume we all remember."
8:47: I love Brokaw. Watch the damned lights! He finds it hard to believe the candidates aren't watching the lights. Obama pops up and says he's just trying to keep up with McCain. In other words, he did it first! That seemed a little dorky and childish.
8:50: I was just admiring Obama's elegant gestures with his long, thin hands, when McCain positioned himself in the background and made a hand gesture that can only be described as holding an invisible grapefruit in front of your chest.
8:55: Obama says that health care should be a right. (McCain called it a "responsibility.") Obama seems relaxed and smiling but also oddly pissed that McCain has been "throwing a lot of things out there."
9:01: We've finally arrived at foreign policy, and McCain seems very relieved. Obama takes the subject of Iraq and ties it to the economy: Iraq has a surplus, so why are we spending our money over there? He's made this argument many times, but it has more resonance this week.
9:05: What is Obama's standard for when we should intervene for purely humane reasons, where there are no American interests? I hear no statement of doctrine. What is McCain's doctrine? We should intervene whenever there is a genocide if we have the means to improve the situation. (That's why he stood up to Reagan about Lebanon.)
9:14: Obama says McCain has called him "green behind the ears." Some sort of moss or fungus?
9:27: The question is how we would respond to an attack by Iran on Israel, and McCain makes a strong connection to the military man in the audience who asked the question. Obama's answer recycles material about energy independence. He talks about negotiations and diplomacy. Okay, and then? What if there is an attack? Will you be there? I can't tell.
9:30: "What don't you know and how will you learn it?" A cute question. Cute and disturbing. Obama decides to just deliver his prepared closing statement. The last 8 years sucked. Can't get
9:34: I began this live-blog with a big mug of lapsang souchong tea, but about 15 minutes ago, I switched to cognac:
9:42: Wow. Over 600 comments! I'll need to go in there and see what you folks are saying. For now though, let's do a little poll:
9:55: I was scrolling through my HDTV recording, looking to photograph the "invisible grapefruit," and I noticed that Obama was wearing an earpiece. I photographed the freeze-frame and have set up a new post to display it.
10:09: I reconsider the perception of an earpiece. I don't see it in other frames. I'm sure a real secret earpiece would be way less visible, inside the ear canal.
11:21: I'm reading the comments, and the general opinion is that the debate was very boring. It was boring to me, because they were saying things I've heard before. Maybe some people are listening closely for the first time, and for them, it might have been interesting. But it should have been new and exciting for all of us, given the events of the past week.
6:55 am: When I woke up this morning, I decided to concentrate my mind on the question which man won.... Ah, what am I doing in this old post? Making a couple corrections. My new morning perceptions will be in new post.
Posts
841 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 801 – 841 of 841"I disagree with him on a bunch of stuff, but I think he'd probably be a president very similar to Bill Clinton, minus the scandals."
He's not nearly as smart as Clinton. I'd much prefer a President with Monica Lewinskys in the closet rather than Bill Ayers.
"The biggest problem in the War on Terror, domestically, is that hatred for Bush makes half the country automatically oppose everything we do."
DING DING DING DING. We have a winner.
I like hearing an Obama supporter argue that the "biggest problem" in the war is one his candidate has been actively encouraging for four years.
Kids needed the computer tonight for homework. Sorry I couldn't join the chatter.
Look, folks, Obama is not a racist like Jeremiah Wright or an anti-American down with domestic terrorism like Bill Ayers. Yes, he had associations with those people, but I think the Althouse commenters are smart enough to know that this doesn't mean he is down with every person he's had associations with. Obama is a mainsream politician and his administration will, for the most part, be similar to Clinton's. There's not much to fear about Obama. He's a nice young man who can help unite America along racial lines and can help bring goodwill to the country on the world stage.
In the next debate and in the time remaining, John McCain should say something along the lines of, "You know, I was listening to my friend Jon Voight," for everybody is McCain's friend, no? "And he gave me the idea to be sure to mention, no matter what question is asked of me, I should make remarks on Obama's ... what is it again? I should remark on Obama's three A's, that's Ayers, Alinsky, and Acorn. Here, I'll discuss each one with you individually at length, for it is important to know who you're considering elevating to office"
"But Mr. McCain, if you could limit your response to the question about the 700 billion dollar rescue package."
"Yes, yes, I will do that, but you see it's a long and tangled deal here and these things are all related."
That would be fun.
Anything short of that or something similar then McCain is simply not even trying.
Obama is a mainstream politician
That's a load of horseshit and you know it. :)
Synova - Are you brain dead?
5% is 5%.
That leaves 95% that pay no more or less.
Are you drunk?
Paul said...
If McCain says "My friends..." one more time I think I'll scream! Gawd, I plan on voting for the man, but I don't know if I can take four years of that phrase...
Amen. It looks unlikely at this point you will be driven nuts listening to McCain say "My friends!" "I'll fight, and I'll fight!" or "As a maverick" - unless he manages to outwrestle Chuck Schumer or some other media whore to get in front of TV cameras on Capital Hill.
The only thing more irritating these days is McCain talking about some "longtime dear friend Senator he has "worked closely with for 20 years". Yeah, just what we need - another Lifetime Senator rhapsodizing about the 60 dear Senator friends he has found the bliss of comradery with over the last 30 years.
Other irritating People in Congress?
Sen John Forbes Kerry - "Just shut up, and go away!" - is the response. And that is what the Democrats say. Republicans are even less polite.
Barbara Boxer - Possibly the dumbest Jew breathing, in a perpetual battle with Patty Murray and Mel Martinez for "stupidest Senator".
Nancy Botoxi - Like a clueless, well preserved Egyptian mummy whose lips move, and babble comes out.
Robert Wexler - Could give lessons in no amount of smarmy high self-esteem is enough to Elliot Spitzer.
Debbie Wasserman-Shultz - Loves the cameras, has a face that could peel wallpaper, and has a speech impediment that sounds like she is talking with a big Cuban cock in her mouth.
====================
Seriously, my objections to Obama are disappearing.
I don't consider him an unacceptable, dishonorable man like Kerry. And the economic collapse probably also signals the end of voodoo economics Reaganism and Republicans like McCain that deregulated vital institutions over the last 28 years.
And a horrible President like Bush deserves regime change - even if the replacement is an underqualified black conman that gives pretty speeches. Who I pray exceeds my expectations because if we have another guy as bad as Bush II we will need a military junta and Chinese guidance on how to set up successful Authoritarian Capitalism to recover from national collapse.
lapsang souchong tea?
The arugula of beverages.
I was going to make a snarky comment about tonight's debate, but seeing the level of depression amongst the conservatives on this blog made me decide not to do so. That wouldn't be sporting.
Suffice to say, I think the game is pretty much over, and there isn't a whole lot left to talk about.
Hi, everyone! We're up to 810... for a boring debate.
If I said that Obama was a "nice young man" it would be secret code for racism.
And that's why I disagree with you about him bringing the country together on that account, Oaf.
I don't think that Obama's race baiting will end just because he's elected, do you? All those warnings about people who wwould, nudge - wink, suggest that he doesn't look like me and you, doesn't look like the people on our currency, has a funny name... those were things he brought up, accusing *pre-emptively*, his opponents of racism.
Maybe that's the Obama pre-emptive strike doctrine?
He accused both Clinton's and Geraldine Ferraro of being racist, too. Do you really think that will end if he's elected?
Palin got accused of secret-code racism for criticizing his association with Ayers. Luckly she doesn't give a crap who accuses her of secret-code racism.
Now... the fact that electing him won't "bring us together and end racism" is no reason to NOT elect him. Just like the inevitable cries of racism if he loses are not a reason NOT to vote for McCain.
"Seriously, my objections to Obama are disappearing."
OH WHAT A SURPRISE!
Seriously, you're so far around the political cul-de-sac that I knew you'd end up on the other side sooner or later. Now you can go on hating Jews as you usually do, but do it wearing a keffiyeh and a Che t-shirt. Maybe you can join Andrew Sullivan in his search for the REAL "conservative soul".
"because if we have another guy as bad as Bush II we will need a military junta and Chinese guidance on how to set up successful Authoritarian Capitalism to recover from national collapse."
You're just wetting your pants waiting for that day, aren't you? You can use the "Sacred Constitutional Parchment" that you hate so much as kindling to start the ovens for the Jews, gays and corporate elite!
"Suffice to say, I think the game is pretty much over, and there isn't a whole lot left to talk about."
Does David Axelrod pay per comment?
Does David Axelrod pay per comment?
Christ, is that the best you can come up with, Palladian? I would have thought you at least could have made a reference to a lovely piece of classical music or a Renaissance sculpture or something.
"I would have thought you at least could have made a reference to a lovely piece of classical music or a Renaissance sculpture or something."
I would never dirty the things I love by dragging them through political filth.
I won the debate... I didn't watch it!
I'm just upset that no one commented on my living room.
JM just slapped his lovely wife.
Nothing happened *tonight* to make the game be over.
Yes, Obama is ahead in the polls... how that will play out on election day, since it's not unusual for polls to show better for Democrats than actually happens, I don't know... but he's ahead in the polls.
After the debate tonight nothing has changed. Obama said his stuff. McCain said his. No one surprised anyone or made huge mistakes.
If something had actually *happened* tonight it might make sense to say that, NOW the game is over.
Nothing happened.
The big consensus on this debate is probably going to be... please, lets not do this again, what a waste of time.
I won the debate... I didn't watch it!
I think, since you missed nothing at all, that it's not just a win... it's a win-win.
Maybe that's the Obama pre-emptive strike doctrine?
It is pretty funny to hear a candidate who has spent the last year making one phony accusation of racism after another hailed as a "post-racial" candidate who will bring the races together.
I don't pal around with racists, Barry. I don't give them money. That puts me two up on you.
It looks more like a dining room.
Plus, it's really nice.
Aaron
Jim asks: "Is McCain coming off as nervous and unsure, or is it me?"
No, he was and is.
"I say this as a supporter and one who thought he would thrive in this format."
Doesn't matter.
He's toast.
It's too bad the Clintons are still in the game, since I'd love to hear their genuine reactions to this stuff. They're probably pretty hilarious.
What could they do to someone in one of these townhall debates if they said you've been selected to read your question and the person decides to ask an entirely different question instead? Some off the wall question that throws everyone for a loop and gets the candidates off their talking points. Why don't people in these situations sieze the opportunity? You didn't really have to read the question you had written down and that was approved. You're on live TV. You can say anything you want at that moment. You could be the person who changes the election. Instead they asked entirely predictable questions that generated the same old answers from the candidates.
And what's even weirder is that that's apparently what Tom Brokaw wanted. Why wouldn't Tom Brokaw want some real news to be made during his debate? He wanted it to be boring, apparently. What kind of newsman is THAT?
I want a You-Tube debate.
Those were great.
But, again, they depend on whoever picks the questions that get in.
Apparently I didnt miss much. Scrolling thru the comments, I assume the debate was a recitation of talking points. The quicker these "debates" go away the better the republic will be. Lets cut straight to the attack ads and call it good.
Whew, just finished reading the previous 830 comments in their totality.
It's important to do so, because for example, I didn't catch a lot of replies to me real-time. It's hectic during it as you know, so apologies if you addressed something to me, with no reply!
Also, just to say that I enjoyed Jen Bradford's comments at the end. Let me say that even in the game, Bill Clinton is hilarious, but you are absolutely spot-on about thinking they must be yucking it up right now.
I can't help but think that Hillary-McCain debates would've been spectacular.
Finally, I think the lack of aggression on McCain's part and the nervy tone to his voice was contrasted to Obama revealing himelf as condenscending (chin in air), smarmy (you're doing a great job Tom, just like he said to Jim Lehrer), and his overall boring wonkiness.
By not doing anything, McCain allowed the real Obama to come out. He wasn't that inspiring rockstar guy tonight. He was...a politician.
Cheers,
Victoria
Roj! You were missed, buddy. :)
BTW, I think Bob Schieffer of CBS will be spectacular next week. I have much higher hopes for that debate.
Thanks Victoria. While you were reading through the thread I watched The Weather Underground documentary. Ayers comes off as sane, if annoyingly opaque about the whole history, while Dohrn was just insufferable then and now.
I'm curious to know if they reacted to 9/11 the same way Wright did (chickens, etc.). It must have been quite strange to watch their one-time fantasy play out thirty years later. Did they feel exhilarated? Horrified? Envious? Also: why am I still awake?
Why are you awake? Victoria's siren song, no doubt...
That boring event was not a debate. It was the Tuesday Evening version of Meet The Press, but with a live audience and panel.
No noses were bloodied, no egos pricked, no brows furrowed, no knock-out lines delivered. Dull!
LoafingOaf says:
some people are suggesting McCain doesn't even LIKE Sarah Palin. I think McCain chose her to please the religious right of his party, the wing that has hated McCain - for the most part - for many years. They called him a RINO.
What of the group of Hillary women supporters, who after Clinton lost in the primaries, met with both Obama and McCain. Obama flatly rejected their request to him (that he appoint as many women in his cabinet as men), while McCain treated theirs to him (that he select a woman running mate, among other things) respectfully, discussed Sarah Palin with them (whom they were enthusiastic over), and then actually did so.
Aren't you entirely ignoring that half of the equation?
LoafingOaf said...
"Obama is a mainsream politician...."
LOL.
"[H]is administration will, for the most part, be similar to Clinton's. There's not much to fear about Obama."
Well, let's assume, dubitante, that you're right. The sleight of hand here is to deal with the President in isolation. The Clinton administration faced a GOP Congress for most of its tenure, and for the first two years, an enervated, lethargic Democratic Congress that saw no reason for haste, no threat to its supremacy. By contrast, Obama will face a hungry, rancorous, reckless Democratic Congress out for revenge. Whereas Clinton's legislative agenda faced a brick wall, Obama's faces a megaphone - and the agenda of the Democrats in Congress face the same thing in Obama, creating something akin to a feedback loop (although perhaps a perfect storm would be a more precise metaphor). Thus, even granting your highly dubious premise arguendo, there is much to fear about Obama.
You said in an earlier comment that you "want a lot of gridlock and checks and balances" - if you took that seriously, you could not vote for Obama. There was a time where institutionalism prevailed. That is, where institutional loyalty trumped partisan loyalty: a Congress could naturally be expected to check the Presidency because they were Congress and he was the President, regardless of party. That time is long gone. You know it and I know it. Consequentially, the claimed desire for "gridlock" and "checks and balances" has no bite if it doesn't strongly counsel voting against Obama.
"He's a nice young man who can help unite America along racial lines and can help bring goodwill to the country on the world stage."
Well, if he's "nice," he sure doesn't show it in public. He comes across as an ass. His supporters were threatening America with race riots and violence if he lost; some "unification." And again, I think that the obsession with being thought well of by other countries is a uniquely liberal affliction.
LoafingOaf said...
"That's assuming you don't think Obama will be a pushover to our enemies. But I really don't think he will be."
I don't know what the basis for that assumption is. Is it his Iraq strategy, Operation Dido, that gives you that confidence?
"I think this war needs to be more bipartisan ... The biggest problem in the War on Terror, domestically, is that hatred for Bush makes half the country automatically oppose everything we do."
No, the biggest problem in the war on terror is that the left believes that it's just an excuse for Bush to turn himself into a proto-dictator while wasting oodles of money and American lives to distract us from the real -- I'm sorry, I mean "'real'" -- problems here at home. The remedy for that problem is for them to grow up, not to put the inmates in charge of the asylum.
"[S]ome people are suggesting McCain doesn't even LIKE Sarah Palin."
And who has made these suggestions - left blogistan, whose denizens have never understood Palin and don't seem likely to start now?
"I think McCain chose her to please the religious right of his party...."
Well, hold on there! I thought that the standard edition lefty talking points say that McCain picked her to pander to women? Is there a new edition of the talking points, or does it demand doublethink - he only chose her to pander to women, he only chose her to pander to the religious right... Maybe he only chose her to appeal to anti-Washington populist sentiment? There's just so many "the only reason McCain picked her"s to choose from! It's almost as if he... I don't know... Made a decision!
"Those same people want me to believe that Obama is some kind of ultra-left-wing, anti-American extremist. But he never comes off that way to me."
Read what he says he wants to do. He doesn't hide his agenda.
Why are you awake? Victoria's siren song, no doubt...
Aww. Shame I took my siren to bed early.
It's for the best. It was keeping me and Jen awake.
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