"Dishonest smears that he repeats, even after it's been exposed as a lie. Truth be damned. A disgraceful, dishonorable campaign... It seems deception is all he has left."
That's the voiceover on this new Obama ad:
A list of thoughts:
1. Are viewers expected to get the references? I wasn't sure what the "sleaziest ads ever," the "smears," and the "lie" refer to, and I've been following the campaigning very closely and posting and analyzing ads.
2. It seems likely that the viewer is just supposed to accept the assertion that there have been sleaziest ads, smears, and a lie, mainly because the names of newspapers appear on screen next to quotes.
3. I think quite a few voters, like me, will feel very skeptical about generic assertions and quotes taken out of context. We American voters are competent ad watchers, and I don't think this will work on us.
4. This ad screams its negativity. The ominous music. The string of very ugly words: sleaziest... vile ... dishonest smears ... lie ... damned ... disgraceful ... dishonorable ... deception. And yet the ad seeks to inspire outrage about McCain's negativity. But we're not watching McCain's ads. The example of sleaziness is the one before our eyes now.
5. The ad has a title: "Honor." And the voiceover at one point says "dishonorable." Honor is a key McCain theme, one that reminds us of McCain's military service. Does Obama -- who tells us he once considered joining the military -- think he can rip away McCain's honor by quoting the Washington Post? McCain has nothing left but deception? Why would we be ready to accept that message? This ad puts a lot of stock in the viewer's reverence for mainstream media, but don't most Americans think the media are trying to help Obama?
6. The McCain ads I can call to mind are disarmingly funny. This Obama ad is completely devoid of humor or charm. It's got a cheap "nutroots" feeling to it.
7. "Dishonest smears that he repeats, even after it's been exposed as a lie." "Smears" is plural. What's the antecedent for "it's"? I thought Obama's campaign was largely built on his brilliant speaking ability. You've got to write the adscript in solid English -- especially when you're talking about deception and tearing quotes out of context. Otherwise, you are the one we will be suspicious of.
8. I hate lies, but I also hate the overuse of the word "lie." Don't say lie if you just mean exaggeration or saying one thing and leaving out something else. Now, what exactly was the lie? And speaking of saying one thing and leaving out something else, Obama left out what the supposed lies and smears are. Using "lie" the way this ad uses lie, is this ad a lie?
9. Obama got the message that he needs to attack McCain and not Palin.
10. This ad strikes me as a big whine: Hey, no fair. Your ads work better than mine. Quit it. Or I'm telling.
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Because someone tells me I'm wrong, I'm lying?
How does that work, exactly?
Suppose I say "You're wrong, AL."
So if you repeat the statements, you aren't just wrong -- you're lying.
Did they teach you this sophistry in school? I can't imagine your parents teaching you this.
First rule of holes, AL.
When in one...
It's so cute that Alpha believes it is his job to wade through the fever swamps of the far left and "report" "news" at Althouse.
What do you hope to accomplish, dude? What is your goal?
My advice to you is to get a job and move out of your parents' basement.
Jim: might also want to include in your trip the fact that Obama and Biden are among the top recipients of campaign donations from FREDFAN. (McCain is up there as well but Its Obama Biden at the top of the list)
Will be very interesting to see how Obama handles this one--and early indications are he's blaming on Bush. (Allen Greenspan had 14 years as fed chair to identify the problem and rec to congress it be fixed). Lots of blame to go around on this one. And Biden is on the Banking Committee. Whats he been doing other than cultivating his hair plugs?
Blake:
Excellent distinction. Or to put it another way - are these "Just words" from Blake? I think not.
Good point, Miller.
Alpha: you have been told repeatedly here that Obama's policy prescriptions suck. However, you repeatedly tout them
Stop lying, you lying liar. Your lying is pathetic.
So Alpha -
You're finally admitting that you're a liar? You keep repeating things that you've been proven wrong about...
In your own words, that makes you a LIAR.
Thanks for 'fessing up...
Biden had better come out with his "No controlling legal authority" statement real soon.
I don't agree with you <> wrong.
The Corner looks at the McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time here and here.
miller said Except to the left. Then, it's lying.
and they always mutter it through gritted teeth- that's the tell.
Man, Alpha, you just completely hoisted yourself on your own petard.
What a lying maroon. If I were you, I could not possibly bear to continue posting here. Better to change your name and reemerge.
pastor jeff left out much of Obama's campaign's response to Romney's criticism
It's not my job to repeat Obama's talking points.
In fairness to Obama, not even Christian Broadcasting Network journalist David Brody thought Obama wanted explicit sex education for kindergarteners:
Brody's analysis: "Obama doesn't want to hand out condoms to five year olds. He doesn't want cucumber demonstrations as part of show and tell. The legitimate reasonable discussion here is whether the federal government and/or local school boards should get involved in providing these five year olds information about inappropriate touching or should it be left up to families only."
pastor jeff apparently lacks the spirit of Christian charity. I commend to him Matthew 5:44-48 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
When the Resurrection comes, I would hate to see pastor jeff still sitting on the sidelines.
integrity said...
Regulate, baby, regulate.
Regulation does not stop economic melt downs. It does not prevent them either. If you believe the current situation is caused by a lack of regulation you are truly insane.
fls -
Since you're still flogging the sex education subject after being proven 100% wrong on the subject, AlphaLiberal says you're a liar...a lying liar...a liar who lies about lying...
Schools *can* teach basic health and good touch/bad touch to kindergarteners... and I suspect a lot of them do... so why pass a state law requiring it?
Do the words funding and job creation mean anything to you? Schools get money, teachers get hired, consultants form businesses, text books get written, and of course more bureaucrats get hired to manage it all. It is all about the money and never about the children.
integrity-
You managed to find 2 people we loathe more than Bush/Cheney.
Why?
Aren't we talking about "Bushhitler"- who is widely recognized as the dumbest human on the planet, and "CheneyBurton"- the evil puppetmaster behind the throne pulling strings...
You actually hate an Ex-POW/ RINO and his mooseshooter VP more than the current Admin?
Really!?
I'm pretty sure you just need someone to hate...
Thanks, Donn.
"Obama’s party loyalty score was 96%, making him a more orthodox Democrat than even the Democratic leader in the Senate, Harry Reid, whose score was 93%. Biden was tied with Reid, at 93%. John McCain, meanwhile, had a party loyalty score of 81%, among the lowest in the Republican conference,"
And the second link is just a statement that the "vote with Bush" count is only figured on 22% of Senate votes.
So... is "vote with Bush 90%" misleading?
Well, only if a person thinks it *means* anything.
McCain has always been known to be willing to go against his own party.
Now that 96% party-line rating Obama managed... wow.
All this loathing must really take its toll on the psyche even for our self-proclaimed intelligentsia.
:-)
Peter, it was a rhetorical question.
Arrrr?
At the rate this argument is going I predict the planet Earth will explode in 16.4 days.
The thing about "age appropriate" is that it's always ever going to be someone else's idea of "age appropriate".
Good points as usual. Had the law passed, concerned parents should have tried to influence the actual curriculum, both at the state and local levels. If the syllabus was truly offensive, then opting out is the only solution.
Plus, the thing about government is that it's all about forcing you to do what you don't want to do.
Hopefully coercion is not the only or even main purpose of elementary school. The teachers I know seem sincere about helping prepare pupils for adult life. Learning about their bodies, hygiene, and their personal safety certainly seems part of this.
Schools *can* teach basic health and good touch/bad touch to kindergarteners... and I suspect a lot of them do... so why pass a state law requiring it?
One reason to have a comprehensive law is to make sure all of the topics are covered over grades K-12, without unnecessary repetition from grade to grade. Plus families move fairly frequently, so a uniform curriculum ensures that the third grader from Town A can transition seamlessly when he becomes a fourth grader in Town B.
But what I would like to see is statewide guidelines implemented at the local level.
AlphaLiberal said...
Repeating statements when you're wrong and you've been told you're wrong is lying.
Good, I am glad we have that straightened out. Now, I can offically call Obama a liar for constantly repeating that he is experienced and qualified to be president when every single fact about him proves that he is wrong.
I can also conclude the Democrat Party is the party of lies. They keep repeating lies, even when they are proved wrong.
Thank you for affirming that.
So... is "vote with Bush 90%" misleading?
Ah, no, John McCain said it himself
jim,
I guess they could say that McCain voted with Bush 50% of the time (90-40), but wouldn't it be even more misleading? McCain, former self-proclaimed footsoldier in the Reagan Revolution, surely is more loyal than that.
George said...
Arrrr?
At the rate this argument is going I predict the planet Earth will explode in 16.4 days.
Arrrg! You are a lying sack of whale shit. The palnet Earth will implode, not explode and it will happen in 12.4 days. LIAR.
We shall keel haul you for that, after the flooging. Matey.
7 Machos, I hope to spread the word of lawless and unAmerican behavior in the upper reaches of our government.
Miller, obviously, if someone is told they're wrong, they will review the facts. In so many cases McCain and Palin have been proven wrong time and again and refuse to change their line.
This is lying. Serial Lying. Pathological lying.
Ann:
Is it possible to have a Obama & Palin free day?
I love McCain's VP choice and have voted already several times. But this is torture for libs who thought they held the winning Powerball ticket and ecstasy for conservatives who saw end was near.
Alpha -- You are wrong. I have told you that you are wrong. Therefore, please stop lying.
Brody's analysis...
Oh, well, if CBN reporter says "no problem,' it's okay then.
Has Brody read the SIECUS material? Does he know Obama's campaign used it as an example of what Obama thinks is age-appropriate instruction?
When the Resurrection comes, I would hate to see pastor jeff still sitting on the sidelines.
Heh. Both your charity and theology are lacking. No one will be sitting on the sidelines when the resurrection comes. "The Resurrection" means all are raised -- some to justification and eternal joy, others to condemnation.
I'm a little concerned for you, though, given your recent sneering at John McCain's 'living off his wife' and how 'easy' it was for him to give away a quarter of a million dollars because it was only from his 'beer and cigarette money.'
If you think I'm being uncharitable to Obama, then please help square his statement that he only wants to teach kids "stranger danger" with his support for a comprehensive K-12 sex ed law and his using the SIECUS curriculum as an example of "age appropriate" materials.
I said earlier he's either dishonest or uninformed. If there's another way to understand Obama's position, explanations, and response to McCain, please elucidate and help me understand how I'm being "uncharitable."
have voted already several times
Awesome! We've got to fight Democratic voter fraud somehow.
Blake wrote:
I have been taken aback by the use of the phrase "you're lying!" in place of the phrase "you're wrong!"
Your post on this sums the confusion on the Democrat side, perfectly. It is just another cog in the Bush Derangement Syndrome wheel for them.
Illustration:
Bush had faulty information there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. He, it turns out, was wrong.
"HE LIED about WMDs!!!"
No, he was wrong. In the meantime, Saddam was captured, and brought to justice, and Iraq is a changed, hopeful country.
And what do the Democrats say about this stunning reversal? BUSH LIED!!!
In the 5 years since that, they are sticking to their lying template, trying to make Palin out to be the new Bush.
Palin: "We said thanks but no thanks to the bridge to nowhere."
Fact: Palin stopped the project. It was never built.
(Fact means it is true, in case I lost you)
Democrats: "Liar, you allowed it to be built!"
Which is false. They are not claiming this, though, which therefore makes no sense about why they call her a liar.
They call her a liar for daring to say that she stopped a bridge when she was in favour of it first (which is simply a timeline issue, not a lie).
The only way she would be lying is to have said, "I said, yes, thank you, we accept that you build us the bridge to nowhere" and it had been built -- AND THEN had claimed she had said "Thanks, but no thanks" to the bridge.
This isn't rocket science, people. Logic is not hard. You just need to pay attention.
Cheers,
Victoria
Thinking that opinion is fact is not far from the derangement that disagreement about policy is lying.
But AL, you want to live in that world.
Try Chicago politics. You'll love it.
AlphaLiberal said...
7 Machos, I hope to spread the word of lawless and unAmerican behavior in the upper reaches of our government.
I am proud that you are finally going to go after those criminals Pelosi and Reid.
Correction -- I meant to write that McCain gave away a quarter of his income, not a quarter of a million.
The term he used was "comprehensive sex education" which is an exact quote from the legislation. That was it, nothing more.
How is that in any way dishonest?
I'm not concerned about whether the ad was honest. I'm concerned about demagoguery over matters like this. You take a legislator's vote, then go into the weeds of "what they were voting for," you're attributing matters not really under their control to them.
But the real problem to me is the implication that such a program is always wrong. As a matter of public health, a certain amount of basic sexual knowledge even among young kids is arguably necessary.
It's the same kind of bluenosed attitudes that stopped clean-needle exchange programs, which would have limited the spread of HIV among drug abusers. "Oh, my, we can't do this, we're condoning drug abuse." To do public health right, sometimes you have to take the world as it is, not how you'd like it to be. I'm disappointed whenever a campaign stoops to scare tactics about sex, condoms, etc.
Repeating statements when you're wrong and you've been told you're wrong is lying.
Well, depends on who's doing the "telling." Anderson Cooper, for one, believes Palin has always favored the Bridge to Nowhere. But Sarah Palin has an honest disagreement with that assessment. Your idea is that if someone in the media disagrees with your assertion, you have to stop making the assertion or you're a liar. Anderson Cooper calling you a liar doesn't mean it's in any way conclusive that you are.
How's that HopeChange coming along?
Is this "LYING LIARS" campaign part of it?
Seems like the mark of a desperate & drowning campaign.
You know, I think Bambi should start publishing that picture from Greenburg - you know, the one where McCain is a warmongerer [sic]. That should push the independents right back to Bambi.
Trust me. I am not lying here.
"It's so cute that Alpha believes it is his job to wade through the fever swamps of the far left and "report" "news" at Althouse."
Actually, it may be his job. If so, I'm guessing this is the guy who ultimately reviews his work.
Question: would a "pay by the word", "pay by the comment" or "pay by the response" model work best. If the third were the case, I find myself ambivalent about possibility that I'm paying for AlphaLiberal's venti lattes.
miller said...
Try Chicago politics. You'll love it.
Why do you think he wants Obama to win? He is in love with political corruption.
I love McCain's VP choice and have voted already several times.
Fraud at polls!
Mark -- No. Alpha has been here a long time. Like so many leftist stooges, he toils for free.
The reason he comes over here with "news" is because, to him, psychologically, it is vital that he simultaneously proves to people he disagrees with that they are wrong while trying to influence those people. He is a modern-day loony leftist missionary, intent on converting the evil heathens.
AL said: ...obviously, if someone is told they're wrong, they will review the facts.
No, that's not only not obvious, it's incorrect. Even assuming you mean "an honest person with a lot of time on his hands" instead of just "someone".
For example, when you first started posting, I started following your links, researching, "reviewing the facts", and what I found was that you presented partisan assertions as fact.
Even if there was a germ of truth to something you said, it was so drowning in a sea of bile so as to be meaningless.
For me--and I'm sure I'm not the only one--you have disqualified yourself as a person who can credibly challenge, well, anything. The only messages I read from you any more are those I can't help but read as I scroll past.
You're trying to score points, something which is independent of the truth, and which most people recognize as a waste of time.
Which is fine, really: I think the wingnuts here enjoy having a moonbat talking point aggregator. To them, you are this.
There is a lie here, however, and it's the pretense of communication.
So, those with little time to spare for pursuing undomesticated water fowl tend to put sources of information like you into a category: "Unreliable. Possibly entertaining but not to be acted upon."
The problem that I see much of the press as having is that they've put themselves into the same cateogry.
I'm a little concerned for you, though, given your recent sneering at John McCain's 'living off his wife' and how 'easy' it was for him to give away a quarter of a million dollars because it was only from his 'beer and cigarette money.'
No sneer, just fact. John McCain shares in the bounty of his wife's family business. If Cindy hadn't inherited her dad's beer business, and she and John were living off his Senate income and his disability pension, John would have much less disposable ("beer and cigarette") income to donate to charity.
I'm not saying it's not nice of him. He could be spending it on beer and cigarettes, or wine, windows, and song.
John McCain's Journey From Maverick to Liar.
McCain's claim to be a "maverick" rests on the liberal positions he took during the days when he openly fought with Republican leaders and the party's conservative base.
McCain's sleaze is harder to ignore all the time.
One more thing. Alpha's use of the passive voice is priceless. You've been told. We don't get to hear who did the telling. It just happened, as if by the grace of God, or possibly by manufacture somewhere in East Asia.
Brilliant! Keep it up, Alpha. Sadly, you are the best the left has.
It's Sleaze Day at the leftist meme factory.
I wonder what flail tomorrow will bring?
John McCain is hoist upon his own petard.
It's actually funny watching you guys try to justify McCain's endless stream of lies.
Keep polishing that turd.
I love the comments at US News that start with:
I've been lifelong Republican BUT....
I think this must be a tactic sponsored by team Obama. Here's a similar comment that was outed by a PA newspaper:
As a Republican and strong McCain supporter in 2000, I was disappointed and saddened in 2004 when McCain permanently traded in his maverick credentials and sold out his principles to support George W. Bush.
The letter writer is chairman of the Lebanon County Democratic Committee.
John McCain admits being wrong, keeps lying (from the AP):
McCain cut off a question about the "Bridge to Nowhere," which Palin claims to have killed in Alaska even though Washington pulled back money for the project before she turned against it.
"The important thing is she's vetoed a half a billion dollars in earmark projects--far, far in excess of her predecessor and she's given money back to the taxpayers and she's cut their taxes, so I'm happy with her record," McCain said.
AND...
Did he call her a pig?" McCain was asked. "No, I but know that he chooses his words carefully, and it was the wrong thing to say," he responded.
ZPS et. al.:
Bridging the Knowledge Gap on the "Bridge to Nowhere" by the Council for Citizens Against Government Waste"
http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/News2?abbr=CCAGW_&page=NewsArticle&id=11594
Sept 11, 2008 "Washington, D.C.) -The Council for Citizens Against Government Waste (CCAGW) today released a backgrounder on congressional funding for the
bridge from Ketchikan to Gravina Island in Alaska, better known as the “Bridge to Nowhere.” The material addresses some of the questions raised about the history
of the bridge and its ultimate demise." [Read the content ....]
See also the "Backgrounder" (Time line)
http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/DocServer/Bridge_to_Nowhere_Backgrounder.pdf?docID=3261
Let's put that one down.
As an aside, I had seen a link for this, and had to do multiple google searches before I could find it (wonder why? Naaahhhh....) It didn't even turn up in my initial search on the CAGW site (although some other interesting BtN articles did ... ), I think because this was on the CCAGW site, not the CAGW site. (Go figure.)
Alpha -- How can your side possibly lose again when you are so right and Republicans are such liars?
You take a legislator's vote, then go into the weeds of "what they were voting for," you're attributing matters not really under their control to them.
Actually, we're listening to his spokesman's words regarding what Obama thinks is an example of "age-appropriate" sex ed.
1. Obama's spokesman says it's a non-issue and points to a SIECUS curriculum as an example of "age-appropriate" sex ed.
2. People read the SIECUS curriculum Obama's campaign pointed us to.
That's 'going into the weeds'?
I understand that Obama didn't write the SIECUS material. But his spokesman pointed to it as an example of "age-appropriate" curriculum. Or is your point that his spokesman is not under his control? I thought that managing a campaign was executive experience.
I love this part about the report on Government waste:
“Media reports that Congress killed the Bridge to Nowhere are not accurate,” said Schatz. “The 2006 transportation appropriations bill allowed Alaska to decide whether or not to move forward. Governor Murkowski said yes; Governor Palin said no. Any discussion about the project should begin with facts.”
You know, someone really ought to clear up the definition of "earmark" (pet project attached as rider to another, veto-proof bill, like military funding), versus the normal state appropriation process - where governors request funds from the Federal Government.
By definition, only SENATORS can authorize earmarks. WikiPedia: "In United States politics, earmarks refer to congressional provisions that direct approved funds to be spent on specific projects, or that direct specific exemptions from taxes or mandated fees."
Governors, by definition, CAN NOT create earmarks - just SENATORS. You're letting the MEDIA have it's way - twisting around the definition of earmark to include the normal state budgeting process - for no other reason than to attempt to say Sarah Palin lied.
These links to thinkprogress and talkingpoints are so convincing, Alpha.
By the way, you are wrong. You've been told you are wrong. Stop lying.
miller: Because someone tells me I'm wrong, I'm lying?
And lets not forget, Democrats want to put you in jail for "lying".
Forget that its merely a difference of opinion on your part. In their eyes, Bush/Cheney should be impeached/indicted/frogmarched for "lying" about Iraq.
What a bunch of totalitarian brownshirts, trying to criminalize policy differences.
And in the mean time the McCain is up by 2o EC votes in the RCP site; formerly blue states are looking less blue, and Senator Obama, who has reneged on so many promises, does not seem to be able to handle pressure of any kind. When you wrap yourself in a bubble of media adulation, I suppose it is only natural to assume you are infallible. A major strategic blunder.
At this point, I will go on and make my prediction for Nov 4th results: McCain will win the popular by 2-3 percent; he will win 300 EC votes. The Dems will mount some sort of legal challenge, unable to believe a lightweigh such as Barack Obama could possibly lose. The junior senator will face a primary challenge in Illinois and probably go the way of Al Sharpton, although with less humor. David Axlerod will be the new Bob Schrum. You heard it here first,
folks.
Now for the lefties on the site here, please dont argue with me; I have taken a vow of not responding to any lefties and its very liberating. Rather than respond, simply suck up your courage and post what you think the results will be. Since these threads are archived we will be able to see how we did on the morning of Nov 5. Go on and earn your red badge of courage.
Did he call her a pig?" McCain was asked. "No, I but know that he chooses his words carefully, and it was the wrong thing to say," he responded.
Ie. "Obama was well aware what his words would convey, he's just too cowardly to admit it"
And by all means, keep flogging the bridge thing--Its a guaranteed winner for the indies. McCain up 12 with the white women demo. Yup--the bridge is real winner.
I call it as a landslide for McCaine, on the order of 46-4. Can't tell on the electoral votes - I figure Hussein maybe gets Calif, Mass, Illinois, and one other state that doesn't clamp down on ACORN voter fraud - maybe Ohio?
Repeating statements when you're wrong and you've been told you're wrong is lying.
No, making statements that you know aren't true with the intent to deceive is lying.
McCain will win the popular by 2-3 percent; he will win 300 EC votes.
I'll call it as McCain by 2% with 279 EC
It's Sleaze Day at the leftist meme factory.
LOL! Isn't that every day?
McCain is a racist fearmonger!
McCain's a loser because he doesn't type his own email!
McCain's going to die of cancer soon and the scary woman will be in charge!
McCain's POW experience means he's unstable and dangerous!
Damn--Fen is conservative! who knew :)
Bob said...
I call it as a landslide for McCaine, on the order of 46-4.
What does that mean, Bob? McCain gets 46% and Obama gets 44%? Is that a landslide? And do 10% really go to independents?
Gee, when do we talk about more substantive issues than a bridge that was never built, a sex ed bill that was never passed, a trooper who was never fired, and who is the bigger liar; Alphaliberal or Aphaliberal?
RE: Earmarks
Earmarks are amendments to other legislation authorizing expenditures for which there was no debate. They are inserted by members of congress.
Earmarks and senate campaign finance "reform" both highlight why we need to repeal the 14th amendment, replacing it with one requiring Senators to be appointed by state legislatures so they represent the states interests as a whole. In some cases the earmarks coincide with state interest, but in others they are simply evidence of corruption.
Oh silly me - there are 57 states. I guess that makes it McCaine 46 versus Nobama's 11. I haven't figured out how the electoral votes of those other 7 states are going to work just yet, so it's probably going to be close.
I'll go with McCaine by 10% of the popular vote and about 290 EC.
Joe--agree wholeheartedly, but its the 17th amendment that needs to be repealed.
Incidentally, these aren't close to the sleaziest ads ever. Adams and Jefferson were pretty nasty. The Andrew Jackson campaign was incredibly sleazy. In the modern era, I think Johnson's counting flowers nuclear explosion ad was arguably the sleaziest ever.
Roger, you are correct. I had a case of Brain Fog.
pastor_jeff
On your last list item "dangerous and unstable" - yeah, and they even have the magazine cover photos to prove it, don't they...
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones....
more like 46 states to 4
I don't know if it will be that wide.
Iowa is a write off at this point, I think.
But if NY is in play. Wow! Maybe JSM can offer Hillary a cabinet position in exchange for her endorsement...
I'm going to guess it will be 2-3 percentage points, with an EV of 300-238. Bambi gets the upper Midwest again (too bad, MI and WI, but you're too solidly moonbat in your big cities), plus Iowa, and the two coasts. McCain gets the rest, including NM, CO, and NV, plus FL, PA, and OH. OH will be 2-3% different. PA will be 0.5-1.0%. Close. FL will be by 8% points.
Outlier - WA, WI, MI, and MN fall to McCain. 348-190.
No problemo, Joe--your underlying argument was correct--the 17th amendment really screwed up the idea that senators should not be national figures but partisans who represented their states interests.
Rather than respond, simply suck up your courage and post what you think the results will be...
That would be rather difficult as they have no courage to suck up.
blake
I'm counting states, either 50 or 57 depending on who's doing the counting...
Peter: which is, of course, one my ulterior motives for posting that.
john stodder -
As a matter of public health, a certain amount of basic sexual knowledge even among young kids is arguably necessary.
I will agree that a certain amount of basic sexual knowledge is necessary, but:
1) that is a decision which is solely in the parents' domain: it is not up to the government to dictate to me and my family what my children learn about sex and sexuality and when. I and my wife decide how much of children's innocence to give up and when - not the state.
2) the fact that it is "arguably" necessary is exactly the point of the ad.
Liberal statists believe it is the job of the government to tell the rest of us rubes what our intellectual and culrtural superiors have decided with regard we should be raising our families, and if we "bitter gun clingers" don't like it then, by God, we'll just pass a law to make them swallow our dogma indoctrination whether they like it or not.
Then there's the rest of us who understand that the government has absolutely no business whatsoever interfering with how we raise our children.
Pointing out which side of the divide Obama falls on is information that many voting parents want to know.
Because you either support government intrusion into your family's personal and moral decisions or you don't have children that this affects doesn't mean that the ad which points out Obama's legislative endeavors on the subject is wrong, misleading or unnecessary.
What you really mean is that you either don't care about or that you support Obama's attempt to jam sex education for kindergartners down parents throats, so that's what you should have said. But it's not. This isn't a non-issue: for many parents, it's an extremely important one.
Perhaps you'd like to reconsider...
AlphaLiberal said...
Repeating statements when you're wrong and you've been told you're wrong is lying.
Thats a lie! Actually you are just mistaken. If I am wrong and you tell me I am wrong, but I still don't believe you; then I am not lying when I continue with my error. It is up to you to not just be right, but to be persuasive too. It is irrational to expect people to belive you are right if you won't go to the effort of persuading them effectivly.
This ad makes accusations, points to nothing specific that McCain has ostensibly done--and uses squibs from newspapers to support the unsubstantiated claims. Uhhh...
Did Obama's ad people not get the memo? Sheesh, I thought everyone knew that members of the mainstream media (so clearly in the tank for Barry that they might as well be on the payroll of his campaign) are distrusted/held in contempt by a majority of Americans these days.
Embarrassingly bad ad!!
a certain amount of basic sexual knowledge even among young kids is arguably necessary.
If it is arguable whether or not it is necessary, the federal government shouldn't be forcing people to put up with it. :)
It is irrational to expect people to belive you are right if you won't go to the effort of persuading them effectivly.
It is not irrational. Alpha is irrational.
What is it anyway with Democrats and their "lie" meme? Are they STILL smarting from when Bill wagged his finger at them and said "I did not have sex, with that women, Ms Lewinksy".
Maybe poor Bill was mistaken. Got her confused with another one of his employees?
This is Obama being tough? Calling names? Hmmm? If he is faced with a real problem as president, say, oh I don't know, maybe Iran threatening to nuke Israel, what is the tough guy going to do? Have ads publsihed that called Iran vile and their actions sleazy?
Real tough.
This ad makes accusations, points to nothing specific that McCain has ostensibly done--and uses squibs from newspapers to support the unsubstantiated claims. Uhhh...
Yah, but we get that everyday from Democrats on Althouse. Must be Obama's Unified New Tone of Change[tm]
"meet the new boss, same as the old boss... we won't get fooled again"
Hey Dems, were you fooled again when your Congress-critters promised to pull us out of Iraq if you elected them?
And your solution is to do the same thing and Hope[tm] for a different result?
..I need Doyle to come back and brag about how smart you guys really are.
Maybe poor Bill was mistaken. Got her confused with another one of his employees?
Nah, he just misspoke.
Thanks alot
*wipes coke off monitor*
fen: you are welcome--its the least I could do
Hey Dems, were you fooled again when your Congress-critters promised to pull us out of Iraq if you elected them?
Speaking of critters, what are Pelosi and Reid doing to halt the melt down in the financial industry? Any emergency legislation to stop the slide? Any bills to shore up the bleeding? Any offers to actually work with the President to bring confidence and faith back to the system?
Even in an emergency, one must put partisan hackery aside and actually do something for the public, right? Or is that another BIG LIE?
Or are they just floundering around waiting to see if the Messiah will perform a miracle and make it all go away?
Did he call her a pig?" McCain was asked. "No, I but know that he chooses his words carefully, and it was the wrong thing to say," he responded.
Did Obama similarly carefully choose to say that he had already visited 57 states, or to mention his Muslim faith? Republicans cannot simultaneously accuse him of being gaffe-prone and of carefully choosing each and every word and phrase.
Seven Machos: Whoever is giving this advice to Obama needs to be canned.
Hey! Knock it off! I've got a family to feed.
Is the complaint really that you're tired of being addressed as a woman?
That's how I felt about TV in 1971 and threw it permanently away.
fls: you have offered up the old false choice thing--there are two issues involved here. Obama is toast without a teleprompter and cannot handle impromptu questions without an excessive amount of ums and ahs. Now he has suggested that his editorship of HLR has someone made him an intellect which suggests to impartial observers he SHOULD know how to use his words carefully. If he can't what does that tell us about him?
Damn--violated my personal rule of arguing with lefties. Apologies to all
National Lampoon long ago had a magazine covers issue; one was Piddle, the child's sex magazine.
Another was Guns and Sandwiches.
I don't remember what the overall theme was that organized these.
fls: Did Obama similarly carefully choose to say that he had already visited 57 states, or to mention his Muslim faith? Republicans cannot simultaneously accuse him of being gaffe-prone and of carefully choosing each and every word and phrase.
fls, with all due respect, Biden rolled that out earlier in the morning at another event. Thats how campaign's work - there's a theme for the day with a complete set of talking points.
You could argue that Obama was responding to McCain stealing his Change meme. But even that falls apart when you consider the context of Palin's remarks re "difference between hocky mom and pit bull is lipstick"
He knew exactly what he was doing, and was not at all suprised by audience reaction. Its a passive-aggressive thing that makes him look like a little bitch.
Then there's the rest of us who understand that the government has absolutely no business whatsoever interfering with how we raise our children.
This is exactly why home schooling is becoming ever more popular. That and the fact that the schools are failing horribly in just imparting an elementary level education to high school graduates.
Republicans cannot simultaneously accuse him of being gaffe-prone and of carefully choosing each and every word and phrase.
You act as if these two things are mutually exclusive. The "lipstick/pig" reference was obviously a scripted message; those are most definitely carefully chosen (and cleared through his campaign staffers). If they weren't, then both he and his staff are incompetent in the extreme.
However, he is a walking gaffe machine (between the omnipresent "uh"s and "ah"s, that is) when he's not working from a script.
But then you already knew both of these things were true, and were making a lame attempt to cover for Obama on both scores. If you're trying to claim that you aren't, then you just haven't been paying attention for the last 20 months or so...
I think Obama just threw a rock and didn't even try to hide his hand.
This ad doesn't work because not every state is seeing every ad.
For instance, here in Indiana I have only seen the Original Mavericks ad featuring McCain/Palin.
Going off on a rant about lies wouldn't make sense in that regard, although I haven't seen this ad broadcast here, either.
It is like a child's temper tantrum without the substance.
This is exactly why home schooling is becoming ever more popular. That and the fact that the schools are failing horribly in just imparting an elementary level education to high school graduates.
Exactly. If the schools were truly exemplary, this would be a minor issue. It's not just that they fail to teach, it's that do all this other stuff which isn't teaching.
"Biden and Palin. Liars."
Biden voted to go to war, then voted against winning it. Bad decisions
Palin favored getting the bridge then stopped it when it got clearly wasteful. Good decisions.
There is a difference if you care to see it.
Add another lie to McCain's big stinking pile of dishonorable lies.
McCain frequently claims, while backtracking from the earlier Palin-is-an-earmark-buster line:
"The important thing is she's vetoed a half a billion dollars in earmark projects -- far, far in excess of her predecessor and she's given money back to the taxpayers and she's cut their taxes, so I'm happy with her record."
But, as even Palin gets, she hasn't vetoed any earmarks. After all, Governors (no even Pintious Pilate) could veto federal spending.
More at TPM.
Maybe we can give McCain some credit for being a bad liar?
"8. I hate lies, but I also hate the overuse of the word "lie." Don't say lie if you just mean exaggeration or saying one thing and leaving out something else."
This is precisely what undermines Andrew Sullivan's recent rantings.
The main newspapers and television news outlets have lost every single ounce of credibility. The New York Times is not worthy to be on the same rack as Weekly World News. It is fucking horseshit, pardon my french. I will never read the NYT again.
To use these outlets to lend some sort of weight to obama's accusations is childish, ridiculous, and laughable.
Ha-Ha!!
Sarah Palin, "reformer" had a tanning bed installed at the Gov's Mansion!
"Sarah Palin, she takes care of Sarah Palin."
Oh the stench of Democrat Corruption.
A corrupt Democrat trying to cling to power. Where is Pelosi?
Biden did not say he did not want the war and not changed mind.
Palin said she did not want bridge
and did not say she changed mind.
so your pathetic excuses are uselss.
However, he is a walking gaffe machine...
I heard that if he loses, Starbucks may install him in their Hyde Park shop.
"Give me an Obama gaffe latte."
It sure sounds like the Obamatrons are entering the second stage of grief - ANGER.
Nest comes BARGAINING, then DEPRESSION, then ACCEPTANCE.
I wish you well on your road to recovery from the loss you know is inevitable.
I believe this ad's purpose was simply to drum up the base, who are clearly getting very scared about the Obama Campaign falling apart at the seam.
You can get such people riled up by throwing out any of the following phrases in any order:
- McBush
- Bush 44
- Palin hates polar bear
- Palin owns a gun
- Nazamerika
- Pregnant daughter
- God
- Global warming denier
In fact, being a software engineer, I could build a program that we could aptly call "The Democrat Ad Generator"!
Next, not nest.
Biden voted for the war
said he HAD voted for it
says it was a mistake
Palin supported bridge
but NEVER said she HAD supported it ,
only talks about it,
thats the difference - she is a liar
Alpha said: After all, Governors (no even Pintious Pilate) could veto federal spending.
Please stop lying about how Pontius Pilate spells his name.
Hold it - Bambi may win once all the Electoral College is updated to include all 57 states. He might just win. How scary is that? And what are the other 7 states? Is Iran one of them? France? Palestine? He has got it in the bag!
Speaking of critters, what are Pelosi and Reid doing to halt the melt down in the financial industry?
Pelosi and Reid are in Washington now, rolling out their now economic policy. It's called Spend Here, Spend Now!
This is an ad designed to keep Obama supporters in line. Yeah, that's a problem right now. It's not an ad to change any minds.
its quite clear to me that none of our lefty posters have the courage to post their predictions. I didnt expect them to, of course, and they lived up to my low expectations.
One last time Alpha, FLS, and etc: put your predictions up here about how the race will end up. That isnt hard at all. although it does require you to take a stand. Look at polls, use your subperb analytical powers and give us a prediction.
/new, not now.
Dyslexic fingers tonight.
Palin, today, repeating for the 10th time a much-discredited lie:
'And that infamous Bridge to Nowhere, I did tell Congress, “Thanks, but no thanks” — if we wanted a bridge up there we were going to build it ourselves.'
You guys actually expect Democrats to ignore this long stream of lies? Fuggedaboutit. We're going to make sure everyone in America is clear on this record of lies that would continue into the White House if we let them.
Isn't it a loser to continually come on with negative hyperbole? Lies, sleaze. As your dad used to say, watch when you paint cause a lot drips on you. Just what I need to get excited about voting for obama. It's truly the new politics of bringing us together. So pathetic.
Speaking of critters, what are Pelosi and Reid doing to halt the melt down in the financial industry?
They're going to ask Obama and Biden to return the money they got from Lehman, Fannie and Freddie. That should be enough capital to keep things afloat for a while yet. :)
Excellent! Video from Sarah Palin's church! Sounds very cultish.
Can't wait to hear the wingers say her church is off limits!
Alpha--not going to put you puny little ass on the line and make a prediction are you- A genuine little sniveling whining coward--all you do is run your mouth and cant even muster up the courage to say what the outcome is going to be. Sorry excuse for a human being. You are on you your own here--untethered from talking points. No one is going to debate you on your prediction. Just have the balls to tell what you think the outcome is going to be. Of course it will be on the record. Come on Alpha. tell us how you see the outcome on November 4th. Popular vote and EC vote. Suck it up boy.
Hey, Alpha,
How about Obama's lies? He lies about his experience. He lies about his qualifications. He has lied about his whole professional life. His autobiography is also a lie. He lies about his Illinois political career and his corrupt mentors. How come no words about that? Obama is just one big lie; a fabrication, totally made up.
Of course you were also silent about Hillary's lies too. Her whole public persona was a fabrication, a fairy tale, a myth.
The Democrats sure fooled people. They put up two bright and shining lies to run for president. It is hard to tell which one is the bigger whopper.
As a lifelong Democrat, I am sickened by Obama's dirty campaigning and his sinking to politics as usual. Also, his associations with a radical church and unrepentant terrorists disturb me. Finally, he may be too far to the left on taxes and foreign policy even for me, a lifelong Democrat.
Come on Alpha=--show us you have some balls--earn your red badge of courage.
Hey Alpha,
How come Charlie Rangel is off limits? Corrupt Democrat, one of the most pwerful men in the House? Can't even pay his taxes?
Roger J. said...
earn your red badge of courage.
Do we really want to go there or even know that?
Peter--we actually do, because I didnt ask Alpha to bleed for his country All I want him to do is stand by his convictions and tell us where he thinks this thing is going to be on Nov 5th He may be wrong, I may be wrong, but I assure you that I have kicked better men out of foxholes than alpha and his ilk
As a lifelong Democrat, I am appalled at the constant lying and evasions by Barack Obama. He claims to be running an honest campaign, but he started by lying about John McCain, and he hasn't stopped.
I am ashamed to be a Democrat, and for the first time I am voting the straight Republican ticket. In fact, if Bush could run again, I'd vote for him, too, just to show my anger at how low Obama has sunk in my opinion.
Peter: you have been a cop--I know several state troopers. YOu guys have to exhibit courage on every insignifant traffic stop.. you have to approach a vehicle filled with god knows what and armed with god knows what. Except that for starters, they have already broekn the law. that, sir, is a very special kind of courage, that even I dont know if I could handle. And the men in blue do that every day and every night. Thats special.
Fen wrote:
I'll call it as McCain by 2% with 279 EC
This was my prediction on September 7th, 2008.
304 McCain, 274 Obama.
That was at the height of Palinpalooza. I had Washington as blue, and Wisconsin as red. I think that'll flip by November 4. I also now believe NH will go to Obama. But I'll stand by the rest of my predictions.
Cheers,
Victoria
Alpha--where are you boy--Alpha? Courage son, Courage.
Obama and his supporters have reacted violently to the claim that he supported sex equation for kids from as young as kindergarten.
What’s the story?
Here’s a report from MSNBC:
The Obama campaign gave this statement to CBN's David Brody: "Barack Obama supports sensible, community-driven education for children because, among other things, he believes it could help protect them from pedophiles. A child's knowledge of the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touching is crucial to keeping them safe from predators."
Well that’s both an acknowledgement that Obama did support some kind of sex ed for six year olds, but a denial that it included anything other than making six year olds aware of sexual predators. So is that really the case?
At this point we have the Obama camp saying that he is in favor of discussing sex with six year olds but denying that it involves anything … what?
To get an idea of what Obama approves, we have an aide referring us to SIECUS.
Well, SIECUS has developed a curriculum for schools. In level 1 for age 5 through 8 the course includes
1. Identifying and naming the body parts and their functions
2. Including genitals, reproductive organs and genes
3. Identifying nipples, penis, scrotum and testicles for boys
4. Identifying breasts, nipples, vulva, clitoris, vagina, uterus and ovaries for girls
6. Sexual and reproductive organs inside or outside the body such as penises or vulvas or ovaries and testicles.
7. That both boys and girls have sexual body parts that feel good when touched.
I love the last part, the part that tells young kids that with the right touch of the right body part they will “feel good.”
Obama supporters may wish to point out the part where kindergarteners are taught about sexual predators.
It’s almost a lesson plan to show the small fry on how they can become sexual predators.
I'm with Miller. I'm a JFK Democrat. Like JFK, I favor a strong defense, lower taxes and the belief that Americans are exceptional people who can do exceptional things. I believe in service to America rather than being served by the American government.
I don't dislike George Bush; in fact, I admire his grace and dignity. Despite all the abuse heaped on him, he has never lashed out, never called names, never treated those in the opposition party with disdain (and quite a few truly deserved it).
The Democrat party has moved away from the solid position it held back in JFK's era. It has become increasingly an aggregation of people who believe the loudest person in the room wins the argument. It wants to penalize those who find success through hard work. It wants to tell us how to run every last aspect of our lives.
I thought Obama might be Kennedy-like. I was wrong. the Obama campaign has become nothing more than a childish, shrill, hateful exercise intent on destroying anything and everything that gets in its way.
I admire McCain. I admire his service to America; his dignity, his willingness to take hard positions that are often not held by his fellow Republicans. The most telling was his leadership in the normalization of political relations with Viet Nam. He took a lot of grief from the left and the right. It was the correct thing to do, and was no doubt damn hard for him.
The treatment of Sarah Palin received by my fellow Dems is appalling. There was no excuse for it. It served no purpose other than solidifying support for the McCain/Palin ticket.
I am old enough to remember the Free Speech Movement in the early 1960s. College students protested the monochromatic (Republican) point of view they were hearing on college campuses. They were correct in doing so, but are now doing exactly the thing they protested against back then.
I have decided to vote for McCain/Palin this election. I believe that many, many other Democrats will do the same.
Hey Alpha, How come the Democrats do not fire powerful corrupt fellow Democrats for not paying taxes?
Roger J. said...
Roger, it was a very poor attempt at bad, um, humor. Subsitute badge for red wings.
I don't understand how you can maintain, with any intellectual integrity, that you are unable to discern which things the McCain campaign is saying are false.
I feel fortunate that I went to law school somewhere other than where you teach (I went to BC). They wouldn't tolerate this kind of feigned confusion from their professors. Even if the dean is taking a decidedly conservative slant these days.
It is truly pretty sad, the things you say here. I would grant you political views, but to say that you don't know what the lies are, or that they're not actually lies, is just indescribably stupid.
On the other hand, it looks like the dishonest strategy is working, so I suppose I have to tip my hat to you people.
Of course, your success in fooling the electorate does nothing to change the fact that your guy runs on an "honor" platform, but has- repeatedly- sanctioned these lies in his awful campaign.
But he'll win, so you can claim some kind of "victory" in your life for it. Congratulations.
roger j,
It is nothing special. You do what you have to do, rely on your training and instincts and hope for the best. It helps to have a gun in your hand too.
Courage of convictions is hard for some, especially those who are true believers. It makes them really look hard at themselves. What they see is fear. Fear of being wrong and fear of ridicule. Worse, is the fear that they may have to admit to themselves that they made a terrible mistake.
You and I are of an age where we made the mistakes, we embarassed ourselves and we learned the hard lessons from it. I fear that the newer generations will not learn and keep repating their mistakes over and over again.
Roger
Obama 273
McCain 264
I think I'm missing 1 vote in a congressional district with a electoral vote somewhere. Colorado puts him over.
Shit, I see I gave him Nevada which gives McCranky a 269-268 lead if that's reversed. I'm sticking with it though.
Peter-no need to apologize--sometiems I get wrapped up in the moment. Right now I am engrossed in baiting the leftards here.
If a teacher applied for a job as school superintendent after 143 days on the job, would being asked about the blank space on his resume constitute a smear?
It would, unless you were a racist.
Garage--thanks somehow I knew you would come thru. I appreciate your willingness to tell us where you are. Its a prediction and nothing more. But at least you have the guts to tell us, and that really impresses me.
Peter--thanks for your insights. Sorry to say, that most people dont recognize the courage that their public servants have to exhibit on an every day basis. thanks for all you have done to make citizens safe.
Roger
I calculated it on the WaPo Pick your President.
Another Palin lie. She said she'd cooperate with the Troopergate investigation, but now she won't talk to the investigator.
For the benefit of MarylandMan:
The Council for Citizens Against Government Waste: "Media reports that Congress killed the Bridge to Nowhere are not accurate. The 2006 transportation appropriations bill allowed Alaska to decide whether or not to move forward. Governor Murkowski said yes; Governor Palin said no. Any discussion about the project should begin with facts."
Peter, there's an investigation beginning of Rangel's tax issues. Rangel requested the investigation and seems to be cooperating so far.
Meanwhile, Palin has gone back on her word on Troopergate.
=======
jls, nice try. But "Citizens Against Government Waste" is a Republican front group.
If she stopped the bridge herself, you should have a nonpartisan source for a quote, no?
garage--hadent seen that one, but thanks..I remain a dedicated realclearpolitics guy. and I based my predictions on the trend lines I see now. I am assuming there are no major suprises that will radically change any states. Tell you what garage--I am in Memphis, and if I lose this prediction, I wll send you Memphis barbeque from the Rendevous here in Memphis. Hows that. I think I have my profile info and email on my profile. Now in the event I happen to be wrong (which would be the first time since 1947) do you like your ribs wet or dry?
McCain: 'Fundamentals Of Economy Strong'...
McCain: 'Fundamentals Of Economy Strong'...
Michael,
Good grief, read the whole quote, not a Dem talking point.
You! A law professor! Not knowing what the lies are!
My 15 September Predictions for President
271 McCain
267 Obama
Much closer. I'll give it another go one month from now, but I feel confident about this one the most.
Cheers,
Victoria
Roger
It's been years ago but a customer of mine Service Assurance in Memphis sent me a huge box of ribs and a huge brownie mudpie thing for coming through on an overnight order. Can't remember the name of the joint but I remember it was out of this world. I like mine dry, no reason to muck it all up if you have a good dry rub and it's cooked properly slow and low. I don't like one way bets so I will have to hang mine out there too - I'm outside Madison and I have acess to some of best aged cheddar in the world, the really rank 3 yr aged crunchy stuff. Not the stuff you put on a grilled cheese though :) Let me know if you like that sort of thing.
I am watching the Iggles- Cowboys .
I think they ran only one ad tonight. It was for Obama.
Perhaps Pennsylvania is not where they are spending ad dollars yet. Maybe the latest poll showing this state is almost tied will change that.
What's Garage giving if Garage is wrong?
OK--Garage has weighed in from the left side and we have a bet going. he gets a serving of memphis BBQ from the Rendevous restaurant if am wrong--oh, and I failed to mention to garage, that he has to go over niagra falls in his skivvies if he looses. OK, garage, thats a joke.
Alpha, of course, hasnt mustered up the courage to tell us where she is, nor have any of or other lefties.
that is a decision which is solely in the parents' domain: it is not up to the government to dictate to me and my family what my children learn about sex and sexuality and when. I and my wife decide how much of children's innocence to give up and when - not the state.
Sorry, I think this is a truism that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Now, I don't want the government instructing anyone's children about sexual morality -- ever. Not abstinence, not gay tolerance, nothing leaning in either direction. That's the parents' job.
But I see no justification for keeping children of any age ignorant of the birds and the bees if it can be shown that an understanding of their bodies will help prevent illness or assault. Just conveying the facts doesn't implicate morality one way or the other. The fact is, children get molested by adults and older siblings all the time, especially kids in less-than-ideally supervised households. Ignorance is of no help in these situations, and knowledge might be.
All of what you guys say about how many schools are failing in their basic mission -- agreed. But that's a non sequiter. A great school with a great curriculum can also provide a sensitive, discreet, age-appropriate course on the human body, personal health, and a child's absolute right to say no to touching or seeing a display of genitalia, even if it's at the behest of an authority figure.
I frankly don't get why the proper care and feeding of one's own body shouldn't be considered a central part of an elementary school curriculum. Not just sexual matters, but nutrition, how diseases are spread, exercise, recognizing symptoms, allergies, etc. For some reason, we have traditionally avoided that subject as well as another fraught topic -- money management. But really, what could be more important to teach a child than health and money.
If you don't have a problem granting government the power to teach your child reading and math, why would anyone have a problem with government teaching them about health and money? Where I would make my stand would be against biased interpretations of history and social science. That's the kind of stuff, deeply political, that parents ought to control.
donn:
"On the campaign trail in Jacksonville, Florida, the Senator declared this morning that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong," despite what he described as "tremendous turmoil in our financial markets and Wall Street."
damn garage--you are on--a box of memphis dry ribs for some good wisconsin cheddar--you are a good man sir. and we have done this in front of gaia and the world. Its a pleasure to engage you sir.
Maybe Ms. Althouse is a true Socratic teacher. In her dialogues she plays the part of the conservative character in order to prove it [modern republican policy] wrong...If this is true, she's brilliant.
Almost eight years into one of the worst economic free falls in out nation's history and 95% of the people here would vote to continue in the same mode.
Dumb, dumb and even dumber.
If you don't have a problem granting government the power to teach your child reading and math, why would anyone have a problem with government teaching them about health and money?
A good question, Stodder, and here is the answer: reading and math are things that schools teach how to do. You learn how to read and what you read is up to you. Same with math. You learn how to manipulate the numbers and you can do it to your heart's content.
With health and money, it's very different from the outset. There is no how. Everything that is taught and everything that is not taught is what-based content, with political, moral, and -- for some people -- religious connotations.
I am really shocked that we cannot all agree that elementary schools should stay far away from teaching about sex, health, and money.
AlphaLiberal said...
Peter, there's an investigation beginning of Rangel's tax issues. Rangel requested the investigation and seems to be cooperating so far.
Liar. And Rangel is a liar. Pelosi is supporting his lies and covering up for him. He is one of the most powerful men in the congress and he cannot keep track of his own tax liabilities?
Who is lying to who? Rangel is corrupt and should resign now or be thrown out. Jailed too.
If it was you, the IRS would be seizing everytihng you own and slapping the handcuffs on. I guess being a powerful Demoratic Congressman gives him immunity from IRS prosecution.
Oh, and he is Black too. Hmmm? Can't have the IRS going after a poewrful Black politicain this election season can we?
The guy who writes the tax laws cannot even keep track of his own tax liabilities? Give me a break. He is corrupt. Pelosi is covering up for him. She is corrupt. Pelosi should resign now too. The whole Democratic party is corrupt. Tax the citizenry, but leave the servants of the people alone.
LIARS and THIEVES. That is what the Democrat Party is. The party of the jack ass. Obama fits right in.
Hey garage, I know you like Cheddar, but if you are right, I will throw in a few pounds of Dubliner. You will love it.
Michael -- You are wrong. You have been told that you are wrong. Therefore, you are a liar.
This is so great. As a lifelong Democrat, I will use it again and again.
ok Peter--I'll bite--what the hell is dubliner? and does it go good with stout or porter?
Michael,
McCain's full quote:
"The fundamentals of our economy are still strong but these are very, very difficult times. I promise you we will never put America in this position again."
Roger,
It is a chesse out of Ireland. It goes pretty good with Guiness or white wine. I recnetly discovered it at Costco. It is addictive, so beware.
Apologies to AlphaLiberal, I know this is your thread to be the lone sane voice, just thought I'd pop in to say hi.
the lone sane voice
As a lifelong Democrat, I'd really have to disagree with that statement. I have called Alpha a loon. You have been told that he is a loon. Therefore, you are a liar.
UWS: Althouse...?
She's far from "brilliant."
She just throws out an inane headline and let's her minions post.
A few days ago she posted a comment relating to a McCain ad she felt exhibited "clarity and thematic unity."
Lies that exhibit "clarity and thematic unity."
And this is a law professor.
And this is a law professor.
You! A law professor! Shocking!
Seven Machos,
I guess the "I am a life long Democrat" is going to get a lot of play here. :-)
UWS Guy, I've thought something similar. Secretly playing devil's advocate just to see if it could be done. This post is one of the few where the strings show though. There's just no way you can argue that McCain hasn't sacrificed his integrity in this election.
Thanks re the dubliner. so to review the bidding garage has stepped up to the plate and made his prediction of a narrow Obama win; I have been a been a bit more expansive in my predictions of a McCain win. So I owe Garage a shipment of Memphis dry ribs from the rendevous with some kind of sweet desert if I lose. AND he gets some dubliner cheese from Peter. Garage owes me some good wisconsin cheddar if he loses. Is his a great country or what. Your a good man, Garage.
With health and money, it's very different from the outset. There is no how. Everything that is taught and everything that is not taught is what-based content, with political, moral, and -- for some people -- religious connotations.
There is no "how" for handling money? There is no "how" for preventing illness? And, to go to the hot zone of this discussion, there is no "how" to report a molestation? I disagree on all three.
How is religion implicated? There's a religious precept that sets an age before which sex can't be discussed?
If student were being encouraged to have sex, that violates at least one of the commandments. Abortion touches on another. But I don't recall any religious dictates either way concerning telling a kid how her vagina works and why strangers shouldn't be allowed to see it. It's just a part of the body.
There's just no way you can argue that McCain hasn't sacrificed his integrity in this election.
As a lifelong Democrat, I have to say that I see McCain as the absolute standard for integrity. The fever swamps on the far left have gone with the integrity theme as the meme of the day for some silly reason, and it's only going to backfire on Obama, just like everything else.
It's Obama who has said, for the eleventh time I believe, that he is "taking off the effete leather gloves with sheepskin lining." Obama has taken the low road and, as a lifelong Democrat, that bothers me. I will be voting for McCain, and I urge all of you to do the same.
The ad may indeed suck, but I'm extremely disappointed in you.
I guess this is the way it will be til November.
Hey Mikey,
Are you a law professor? Are you a professor at all? Are you even a lawyer? Do you even have an education? We know you are a liar. Your massive research concluded that Obama grew up in Chicago.
Just what the hell gives you the right to disparage anyone else; their ideas or opinions? We are entitled to our opinions. That is what America is about.
But, maybe John Edwards was right. There are two Americas. The one I and others grew up in, served our country and cities for and defended the constitution. Even shed blood for.
Then there is your America. The America of the one single opinion. The one single thought. The America that will stifle debate. The America of the big lie. The America of the uneducated that lacks intelligence and intellectual thought. The America of the party, for the party, and by the party.
The old Soviet Union has nothing on your America. Oh, and guess what? If your America ever gets some power, beware. There are those of us who know how to fight.
Seven Machos,
I guess the "I am a life long Democrat" is going to get a lot of play here.
I actually am a life-long Democrat, so I'm going to have a lot of fun.
Now having acknowledged the one lone lefty that will go up on the skyline, I ask the remainder of the lefties: give us your predictions of the outcome on November 4th. Mine are at my 1733 post above. Garage showed some guts and made his.
Alpha and his fellow running dogs are still babbling and lacking the courage to commit. You are exemplars of the craveness of the american left. a bunch of gutless babbling pigs.
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — Did Barack Obama really call Sarah Palin a pig, as a John McCain ad leads people to believe? "No," McCain said Monday.
john stodder -
1) The problem is that far too many teachers can't handle teaching facts. Sex and sexuality is a world of grey areas - what should be taught and when. If they can't handle teaching 2+2, then how in the world can they be trusted to teach anything about sex?
2) I challenge you to point to the specialized training that elementary school teachers receive in the subject matter. In my state, you can be a teacher with a bachelor's degree - in any subject. And you think I should trust them with such a sensitive subject?
3) You assume a best case scenario where everyone has agreed on what constitutes "age-appropriate" education. But that's nowhere near close to reality. Usually it's a hardcore Left liberal who thinks that children need to know everything as soon as possible about all things sexual who is pushing the curriculum while parents try to fight vainly against an entrenched bureaucracy that defends its own rather than truly looking out for the welfare of its students or their parents.
4) In an ideal world, perhaps it would be OK for government to get involved in sex eduation. But that's not the world we live in: all these people who claim to put the child's interests first never actually do. If they did the NEA would be the first in line to make sure that incompetent teachers never saw the inside of a classroom. Instead they fight tooth and nail for every union member to have a right to screw up yet another child's life regardless of the actual "interest of the child."
5) You want to act as if sex and sexuality are separate and distinct from morality and that quite plainly is not the case. Giving a child knowledge without also giving them context will only wind up in a de facto encouragement of sexualized behavior: because they have no other grounding to prevent it. That is why it must always remain in the parent's domain: only a parent can provide both knowledge and context; no member of the government will ever be qualified to provide a context that precisely conveys the morality which we seek to pass on to our children.
6) Given their attempts to indoctrinate children with liberal dogma in almost every single class, you need to provide me with even one single reason to believe that they won't try to push their agenda on my child's sexuality. You can't because every time they're given an inch they take a mile and then complain when parents push back. Better not to give them the inch in the first place.
7) You assume that I would give these government representatives the power to educate my children. Quite frankly, I never would. I went through their attempts at liberal indoctrination, the teaching of selective facts in support of their worldview, etc. I won't limit my child's education to the dogma that they want my children to parrot. My wife and I have far more education and a far wider worldview than any teacher I ever encountered in what passes for an education system today: we can do much better for our children than that...
Palin Refuses To Meet With With 'Troopergate' Investigator
Stodder -- I tend to agree with you on the macro, theoretical level.
On the micro, classroom level, though, I really have my doubts that opinion and all kinds of whats will not seep in.
This is yet another grand idea on the left that won't work at street level because people are so sadly imperfect.
Also, to go in another direction, the idea of this kind of education at the grade-school level is wildly unpopular, regardless of you and I think. At the end of the day, that is the most important political consideration in an election season, or any season.
Man, dubliner and ribs. How can I get a side bet going on this one? It's good either way.
I have to say, as a lifelong Democrat, that I don't think that troopergate will stick. Just like the last 73,235 "scandals" about Palin.
It must be frustrating for you to keep spouting these scandals, only to have them dissipate into the ether.
Sucks to be you, but it will suck more on election day. Believe me, I know, as a lifelong Democrat who has witnessed the elections of Reagan, Bush, and Bush, not to mention the 1994 House and Senate elections.
When news broke last week that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin received more than $17,000 in state-issued per diems for evenings spent in her own home, several tax experts and watchdogs asked whether John McCain's running mate had ever declared and paid taxes on that money as income. Including travel reimbursements for Palin's family members, the Washington Post reported that the total amount of potentially taxable income totals over $60,000 for Palin's first 18 months as governor.
But as the mystery around those per diems enters its second week, there has been no signal from the McCain campaign as to whether or not it will release Palin's tax returns.
michael h--talk to us; capitalism can accomodate anyone. perhaps you could persuade some of our gutless lefties, garage excepted, into going up on the skyline
damn garage--you are on--a box of memphis dry ribs for some good wisconsin cheddar--you are a good man sir. and we have done this in front of gaia and the world. Its a pleasure to engage you sir.
Likewise. Game on! I'll hit your profile tomorrow and email you.
Peter
Never heard of Dubliner, is it strictly imported?
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