Althouse: "What's the point of being an alpha male?"

March 18, 2008

"What's the point of being an alpha male?"

Christopher Hitchens asks — Spitzer-relatedly. You'll have to go to the link to read his answer, because it's too filthy for this blog.

52 comments:

vnjagvet said...: Sounds like blunt locker room chitchat to me.; 3/18/08, 10:47 PM
vnjagvet said...: And probably true.; 3/18/08, 10:47 PM
Simon said...: Why is it that someone so committed to evolution turns out to believe that mankind isn't really very evolved?; 3/18/08, 11:01 PM
Synova said...: I don't think it necessarily applies to all men (or women for that matter) in power but certainly those with that attitude would be drawn... or driven... to acquire power and the privilege they see as a part of that.

Personal power, influence, and the right to all the sweet young things your heart desires.; 3/18/08, 11:05 PM
rcocean said...: Hitchen's is a godless lefty.

To him it all comes down to power, pussy, and drink. "Hitch", Dawkins and Harris think we're all just apes in suits. I wonder if Hitch is a member of the "Emperor Club".

Spitzer reminds me of an Ann Coulter's comment. She was amazed that when she called liberals "Godless" they took it as a complement.; 3/18/08, 11:08 PM
reader_iam said...: So, it really is about the onion rings, after all.; 3/18/08, 11:15 PM
titusgrandjetewithalaybackintothesplits said...: The hog
is an interesting
piece of a man's person.

The hog can be
very powerful.

Given the opportunity
the hog
will always
come before the brain.

Thank you.; 3/18/08, 11:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Spitzer was BUYING sex, which anybody with the money—whether he/she has it ready at hand or saves it up—can do. The, um, commodity referred to filthily by Mr. Hitchens would have therefore been available to Spitzer regardless of whether he held a high elected office or not. In Mr. Bill Clinton's case, he was certainly taking advantage of the referred-to-commodity as it was presented/offered to him—or maybe even as it wasn't presented/offered to him, if you believe Katherine Willey. So either way, the scenario/rationale offered by Hitchens, as divertingly filthy as it might be, doesn't really hold up under scrutiny, does it?; 3/18/08, 11:43 PM
titusgrandjetewithalaybackintothesplits said...: My Hog-by titus

My hog
is big and has a nice
proportion
of base to head.

My hog has a nice cut
mushroom head.

My sexual partners
praise my hog....and for that I am grateful-but I never say thank you.

Sometimes my hog
requires me to leave the
house immediately
to find release.

I am fortunate that I can leave
the house
and still get my hog serviced.

There will come a day
in which no one will want my hog.

That day will be sad
and I will probably
shoot myself.

Thank you.; 3/18/08, 11:43 PM
titusgrandjetewithalaybackintothesplits said...: I would like to go to Saigon.

Thank you.; 3/18/08, 11:52 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/19/08, 12:02 AM
Eli Blake said...: This issue that brought down Spitzer was not prostitution-- though that was the hot steamy story that everyone latched onto.

The issue that really brought him down, and may send him to prison, was money laundering. Money laundering is a Federal felony and one that they take very seriously.

Further, another aspect that really hurt Spitzer was the hypocrisy angle. People are more willing to give, for example, Bill Clinton or Ted Kennedy a pass because they've never gone out and preached about 'family values' or condemned others for their lifestyle, or otherwise held themselves up as exemplars of morality. Spitzer, in contrast, tried to promote himself as 'Mr. Clean,' and in fact prosecuted people for (among other crimes) prostitution and money laundering in order to build up his career.

When a sinner is caught sinning, it's not that big of a news item. When the preacher is caught doing the same thing, then it is big news.

Incidentally, I like that way that his successor (Paterson) did things. He announced today, on his second day on the job, that he's had several extramarital affairs since 1999. OK, that's now out in the open, there's nothing more to report on it, and it appears that nothing he did was illegal. As long as he doesn't go off and start preaching about the 'sanctity of marriage' or some other such thing, I doubt if it will hurt him at all down the road.; 3/19/08, 12:03 AM
Swifty Quick said...: You'll have to go to the link to read his answer, because it's too filthy for this blog

Puh-leeeeze.

It's not that filthy, plus putting it the way Hitch puts it neatly captures the attitude he's discussing.; 3/19/08, 12:14 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/19/08, 12:23 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/19/08, 12:26 AM
Jeff with one 'f' said...: You don' get it, Theo. Rules are for the middle class only. The elite and the poor get to ignore the rules (however different the consequences) because they have less to lose. The middle class, however, knows that messing up can put you and yours right back on the bottom.; 3/19/08, 12:31 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/19/08, 12:39 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/19/08, 12:42 AM
Revenant said...: Why is it that someone so committed to evolution turns out to believe that mankind isn't really very evolved?

Observation? :)

Seriously, though, from an evolutionary perspective we're only a teensy bit different from other primates. If you were an alien who came to Earth with no prior understanding of human language or culture, and had to derive motivations for our actions purely from our observed behavior... are we really THAT different from other primates? Sure, we've got all this cool technology and stuff, but our actually behavior isn't really all that terribly different from that of animals.

There's no denying that an awful lot of our leaders seem to view it as their god-given right to poke anything that's parted in the middle. That's classic alpha behavior. And evolutionarily speaking, the idea that the ruler doesn't get to bang whomever he wants is really only a couple of thousand years old -- less than that, in many places. Before that it was pretty much "I'm big and mean and I've got a bunch of other big and mean people on my side, and I say this woman's mine".; 3/19/08, 12:48 AM
Swifty Quick said...: And yas, yas, we know that Spitzer was buying sex with his own money, etc., which is different, etc.

It is different. A supposed straight-arrow law man family man sneakily buying it on the side is very different than the man who believes he can impose himself on women because of who he is.; 3/19/08, 1:23 AM
Revenant said...: Or he has a gut feeling that he SHOULD be able to have any woman he wants, but an intellectual realization that political realities make that impossible. So he settles for using his vast wealth to buy the women he wants on the sly, instead.; 3/19/08, 1:39 AM
Unknown said...: First you get the power, then you get the money, then you get the women.; 3/19/08, 1:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Loutish alpha male behavior would have died out long ago if so many women (or their genes) didn't find it such a compelling turn-on. To say it in another way, there wouldn't be any baby alpha males around if women wouldn't jump into bed with these would-be dads.; 3/19/08, 2:15 AM
Mr. Forward said...: You had Jane Fonda's TV stunt
(That word that rhymed with runt) And Titus and his everloving Hog
Not to mention the Vagina Monologue.
How is it Hitchen's kitten
Is "too filthy for this blog"?; 3/19/08, 4:07 AM
Epaminondas said...: So what is Hitch saying ..this side of the aisle are really a bunch of grunting sweaty morons, or anyone who is like Spitzer is a slave of hormones and no mind over matter is possible for such?

Or is any power seeker a self selected pussy compass as an intrinsic part of persona?

GOOD LUCK MICHELLE!; 3/19/08, 5:21 AM
George M. Spencer said...: So...how come the story about NY's new governor Paterson and his wife's simultaneous affairs went nowhere?

Best graf was...

"The governor flatly denied what he called a "sporadic rumor in Albany that I had a love child" by another woman. "That's just not true," he said.

I wonder how many reporters in NY knew about Paterson's affair(s?) and the "love child" rumors long before Spitzer's resignation? Was he not alpha enough?; 3/19/08, 6:36 AM
Anonymous said...: Labeling Spitzer an "alpha male" gives him too much credit, and attempts to blame his situation on an innate, genetic, condition shared with many other men. It makes him sound helpless.

Bullshit. Spitzer's problem was that he was unable to operate his brain and his penis at the same time.

Spitzer was so profoundly stupid as to believe that he could convince a bank teller to not report large cash deposits he was making while he was concurrently destroying the lives of those he believed were violating banking and securities laws.

As for the teller who blew the whistle, here's hoping she receives a six-figure bonus. Or Dick Grasso buys her a new home.; 3/19/08, 6:43 AM
titusgrandjetewithalaybackintothesplits said...: I have to admit my hog poem is going to be heralded and talked about for generations to come.

It's importance ranks right up there with MLK's I Have a Dream Speech.

It was heartfelt and honest and I wrote it myself. I exposed myself for all to see. I am grateful for all of the accolades but I beg of you please enough.

I am only a man.; 3/19/08, 6:43 AM
titusgrandjetewithalaybackintothesplits said...: Live near gays fellow repulicans, here's a little tidbit:

gays are good for house prices.
Shihe Fu estimates that a rise of one percentage point in the proportion of same-sex couples living in an area raises median house prices by 9 per cent even 10 years later, controlling for some obvious other things.
This suggests that gays improve neighbourhoods; they don't just choose to live in nicer places.; 3/19/08, 7:05 AM
Bob said...: The interviewer didn't ask the obvious follow-up, which is So what about the disgraced politician, then? Will Spitzer have to drop his sights and hit on diner waitresses now?; 3/19/08, 7:10 AM
KCFleming said...: The point of being an alpha male is power. With that power, one can impose one's will on others. The fruit of that victory can be many things, including access to sex. But it is not limited to that.

History is replete with examples of alpha males who sought many competing things, but simple domination over others is the point for many of these men (and not a few women). Like a crow after a shiny piece of foil, they seek treasures, property, military victories, recognition, immortality, adulation, or their image on wall-sized posters.

Still others seek to change society itself (in part, e.g. national health care, or in whole, e.g. the USSR), or even to modify the human being forever, creating the “New Man” (see: communism). And a few saw themselves as gods. They all see the world and its people as just blocks of wood to be manipulated for their whims and desires ...without consequence.

The most heinous alpha males are indeed the closest thing we have to our primate ancestors, from an evolutionary perspective.

However, the fact that many people find these actions wrong or even evil points to something that stands outside of evolution, something that supercedes it.

In my view, Hitchens's anger and Pinot noir are used to fill the God-shaped hole inside him, that calls to him, and informs his sense of moral outrage. For if we are merely and only apes in suits, why would we find anything at all wrong with Spitzer's actions, much less Kissinger's, Mother Teresa's, or Saddam Hussein's, to name others he has castigated. How can there be evil if we are simply animals? Dogs, lions, and insects dominate, rape, impregnate, steal, and kill with impunity. Why not us?

That's the question that beckons.; 3/19/08, 7:12 AM
save_the_rustbelt said...: In business Alpha males get more power, more women and more money.

Often though, it all ends badly in some way (ask Jeff Skilling, an extreme example).

This leads to a delicate question that I am hesitant to raise, "why do so many women flock to attach themselves to bad boys?" I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.; 3/19/08, 7:52 AM
Tim said...: "This leads to a delicate question that I am hesitant to raise, "why do so many women flock to attach themselves to bad boys?" I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer."

Why so hesitant? Afraid to offend? Do you find the truth offensive?

Regardless, the answer lies in your first statement - women flock to attach themselves to these men for more power and more money.

Next question.; 3/19/08, 8:16 AM
rhhardin said...: I don't know of anybody in power who isn't mocked and ridiculed.; 3/19/08, 8:29 AM
Peter V. Bella said...: Eli Blake said...
This issue that brought down Spitzer was not prostitution-- though that was the hot steamy story that everyone latched onto.

This issue that brought down Spitzer was probably his hubris and his overblown sense of invincibility. Remember the scandal hit on a Monday. He was notified on Friday and was holed up with his staff- read closest aides and maybe wife. He may have been offered a deal to quietly go away. Knowing his personality he may have told the Feds what they can do with themselves. That may have triggered their Spitzering Siptzer. The Feds like tidy packages, especially a plea or admission of wrong doing and a large fine. They hate fighters, especially when they hold all the cards.

People are more willing to give, for example, Bill Clinton or Ted Kennedy a pass…
Spitzer persecuted people. He went after tem mercilessly in a personal crusade through prosecutorial abuse and the media. He destroyed lives and business careers. He made enemies. People do not forgive this.

titusgrandjetewithalaybackintothesplits said...
I have to admit my hog poem is going to be heralded and talked about for generations to come.

It's importance ranks right up there with MLK's I Have a Dream Speech.

Titus, I do not think “I Have a Hog” will go down into the history books and a major speech quoted for generations.; 3/19/08, 8:50 AM
Peter V. Bella said...: save_the_rustbelt said...
This leads to a delicate question that I am hesitant to raise, "why do so many women flock to attach themselves to bad boys?" I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.

Cause ladies love outlaws
Like babies love stray dogs
Ladies touch babies like a banker touches gold
Outlaws touch ladies somewhere deep down in their soul
(Ladies Love Outlaws Waylon Jennings); 3/19/08, 8:54 AM
George M. Spencer said...: Paterson needs to go, too. Multiple affairs, procuring a job for at least one mistress, tape recordings, possible use of state funds...; 3/19/08, 9:23 AM
Melinda said...: "why do so many women flock to attach themselves to bad boys?"

'Cause we're afraid to be baaaad ourselves.; 3/19/08, 9:38 AM
Trooper York said...: "This leads to a delicate question that I am hesitant to raise, "why do so many women flock to attach themselves to bad boys?" I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer."

Because they already have one pussy.; 3/19/08, 10:48 AM
KCFleming said...: Again, Trooper is a god.; 3/19/08, 10:54 AM
Chip Ahoy said...: Quite right, Old Boy, quite right, you've got it all in a nutshell there.

Hitchens is at work on a new memoir, but he couldn't get away from politics on Wednesday, working on a bottle of Pinot Noir as he talked.

And besides, it was coming up on noon. See, this surprises me. I always took Hitchens for a Bourbon kind of guy.; 3/19/08, 11:28 AM
MarkW said...: As others have noted, this just doesn't square with Spitzer's buying of prostitutes -- he didn't need perfect LSATs or political power to do that.

And, more to the point, historically it may have been a good strategy for oversexed alpha-male wannabes to pursue political power, but now it's quite clear that this is counterproductive. After all, high-level politicians have much less privacy and freedom of 'action' than the average anonymous rich guy.; 3/19/08, 11:59 AM
a@b.com said...: "why do so many women flock to attach themselves to bad boys?"

Want to hear an inflammatory answer?

Because the women want to get pregnant and have sons with the same sex appeal as their fathers. It's not just that the "bad boy" has (recognized) sex appeal; the sons will have it too. Then the woman has the power. She has jealousy from older women (for getting the "prize" man and for having a "prize" son) and jealousy from the younger women (because she has power over the "prize" the younger ones want).

I hope you enjoy my FreudianSocioEvolutionary land mine. ;-); 3/19/08, 1:01 PM
Synova said...: Politics is different from business because it involves exposure and that exposure is worth something, too.

Get up and give a speech and hear people cheer? That's a rush for a whole lot of people. Some people badly need it.

I've known men who went into ministry for the same apparent reason. They NEED the public acclaim. (In politics you've got people attacking you too, but if you can put up with that you also have a whole lot of people kissing up, going to your speeches and if you *win* it's like... they love me, they really love me.) Anyhow, those in ministry who seem to be there because they need the constant praise and affirmation, IME!, also seem to be the ones who can't resist the praise and affirmation of someone not their spouse.

I don't know if it's ALPHA male so much. I mean, I sort of think the whole Alpha/Beta thing is a crock anyhow. But certainly some people do seem particularly *needy* and it leads to unhealthy and anti-social behavior.

I consider it Alpha behavior to be faithful, to really, well, *own* might not be the best word, but to take that primary role in a *my* wife, *my* family sort of way.

When they do studies with animals it's the Beta or Gamma or which ever males... the NON dominant males... who cheat.

The Alpha choses and keeps a mate... the subordinate males sneak around and randomly impregnate whatever they get the opportunity to "do".; 3/19/08, 3:39 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: Titan said...
I hope you enjoy my FreudianSocioEvolutionary land mine. ;-)

KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!; 3/19/08, 3:40 PM
Synova said...: Depends on what a person means by "bad boys."

I worked with a lady who left her wonderful husband (her description of him) for someone who was probably a criminal because (my interpretation) her "with it" husband wasn't needy *enough*. The criminal always *needed* her... to pay rent, to take care of him... and there was drama and constant emotional upset. She needed that.

The constant emotional swings and drama seemed to extend to dramatic sex as well (my interpretation of her talking around that... she didn't spill those sorts of details.)

Other women like "bad boys" because they interpret getting treated badly as proof that they're aiming higher on the quality mate scale because if he wasn't above her on the quality mate scale he'd be nice and trying to get her to stay. If he treats her badly it's because he could have someone else easily... therefore he must be more desirable.

But you know... you guys don't *want* someone messed up in those ways. Being "bad" might get you a woman but...; 3/19/08, 3:49 PM
former law student said...: The flaw in Hitchens' analysis: Even an omega male can bang a whore if he has enough money. A true alpha male would have to politely decline the advances of willing women.; 3/19/08, 4:30 PM
Synova said...: I think the idea is that an omega male won't have 4k extra lying around to pay.; 3/19/08, 4:39 PM
Synova said...: But I'm unnatural.

A man in a suit is only attractive to me if he looks uncomfortable in the suit.

:-); 3/19/08, 4:41 PM
KCFleming said...: What if he's also uncomfortable out of the suit?; 3/19/08, 4:49 PM
former law student said...: I think the idea is that an omega male won't have 4k extra lying around to pay.

Depends on your spending priorities. Even a homeless guy who collects cans can scrape $4K together over the course of a year.; 3/19/08, 5:17 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: And if he saves his money, does not eat, and does not spend on luxuries like food for the whole year, he can bang a whore like Dupre for an hour.; 3/20/08, 12:58 AM