October 20, 2007

"Rudolph W. Giuliani strolled into the maw of the religious conservative movement Saturday..."

And apparently, the maw found him deliciously satisfying.

The maw... I'm picturing something like this:

It's not a walk in the park, this stroll amongst the dreaded values voters.

ADDED: None of this is to say that Giuliani is the first choice of values voters. Their straw poll put Huckabee clearly first. The issue isn't, however, whether Giuliani is their favorite. (Of course, he's not.) The issue is whether they will support him if he becomes the Republican candidate.


reader_iam said...

Hell--that's a delightful reference!

Guiliania, being basically a down-to-earth sort, probably knows that no one ever promised him a rose garden.

(I waited to comment on this, thinking one of your formally art-erudite types of visitors would say something.

But since no one did, I'm damned if I'm going to let this one go uncommented.)

reader_iam said...

My alternate comment:

Oh, Bosch!

reader_iam said...

(For the joke--not a judgment on your post, which I really liked.)

PatCA said...

I guess they have to say "maw" to discredit the gathering somehow. The audience appears to be made up of sane, intelligent people who welcomed his honesty and his principles and will probably support his candidacy, which flies in the face of the Times' contempt for Christianists.

Revenant said...

That's an awesome choice for "maw" imagery.

I'm betting Giuliani can get a LOT of mileage out of a "before Rudy" and "after Rudy" picture of Times Square.

ron st.amant said...

I guess it will help Rudy if the rank and file of the religous conservatives vote for him, but from the things I've heard from the leadership he won't be getting their votes. Tony Perkins on Hardball yesterday said as much, (paraphrasing)'not being a Pro-Life candidate is the line for me I won't cross'...I think Dobson is also on the same line.

It seems that 'values voters' will have to decide which value to place at the top- abortion or beating Hillary.

ron st.amant said...


apparently Rudy finished out of the top four in the straw poll following the speeches...

They only released the results of the top 4 vote totals:

Romney 1595
Huckabee 1565
Paul 865
Thompson 564

out of a total of 5576 vote case.

So while they didn't release the totals for the rest of the field, one can do the math. Rudy had to have finished with no more than 423 votes (and that would be if he received all of the rest of the votes, which is unlikely)

But if he did receive the full 423 that's under 8%...not a great showing.

Ann Althouse said...

I should add that that detail of Bosch's Hell is obviously female genitalia.

Ralph L said...

I'm sure that green person in the upper right is eating a carrot stick.

reader_iam said...

Oh, Lord--does that make my "Guiliania" in comment 1 Freudian?


Ralph L said...

To misquote Cordelia Flyte asking Charles Ryder, "Medieval art is all Bosch, isn't it?"

Ralph L said...

Sorry, he's officially Renaissance, after 1482.
Wiki says that's part of "The Last Judgement."

reader_iam said...

No way am I an art expert. Sorry if I "oopsed."

Ralph L said...

Well I don't think I'd even heard of him before, so you're one up on me. I only corrected the title because he has another picture named "Hell."
Was Michelangelo's musculature a reaction to the wimpy figures seen here, or did he just like beefcake?

reader_iam said...

I thought it was from the triptych "The Garden of Earthy Delights," but as I said, I'm no expert; and I'm not so much into recreational research these days.

Luckyeldson said...

That painter.......Bosch........has it exactly right.

That's what Republicans do to people.

Wingnuts torturing everybody.  They'd do what you see in the picture if they had a chance.

Fortunately, 70% of Americans are going to send them back to hang upside down in their caves in '08.

Giuliani didn't have to worry about going there.  Where's his pitchfork???? He should have borrowed Bush's.

*Hillary will save us....from the wingers you see in the picture.

reader_iam said...

EarthLy, darn it.

reader_iam said...

Lucky, now you're just having fun ... .

hdhouse said...

My first wife's maiden name was Bosch. Why does this seem so fitting?

Ralph L said...

Blogger seems to be eating my comments lately. Anyone else's?
Here's the Hell part of G of E D.
Is that an ovary in the middle?

That wasn't L O S, and I believe he was being parodic.

no one said...

The audience appears to be made up of sane, intelligent people who welcomed his honesty and his principles...

Based on this description, there's no way anyone would guess that the audience was composed of nutty "conservative" Christians and the speaker was Giuliani.

reader_iam said...

Oh, sorry. Wasn't reading that closely (multi-tasking: the only way I can get through heavy-duty house tasks).

Though apart from the attribution, my comment still seems apt, don't you think?

reader_iam said...

hdhouse: Funny--Tad wicked, but all the more funny for that.

Randy said...

Not satisfying enough to vote for him, however. as he ended up pulling up in low single digits, behind almost every other candidate.

Daryl said...

Giuliani doesn't need to be their first choice in the primary to win the primary.

He does need to be an acceptable choice in the general election to win that. Receiving applause from this crowd is a very positive sign.

You would be hard pressed to find many religious people who actively prefer Hillary to Rudy, but Hillary can only damage the country. If Rudy wins and is socially liberal, in their eyes he can not only damage the country but also the Republican Party, which is their vehicle for remedying (what they see as) the pernicious influence of social liberalism. There is a very real reason for religious conservatives, especially hardcore movement types, to prefer President Clinton to President Giuliani. Giuliani has to convince them--which he apparently did with this speech--that they can safely vote for him.

That would also help him to win the primary. Socially liberal Republicans don't want Rudy to get the nomination if that means a Clinton presidency. If Rudy is perceived as electable, he can get more primary votes.

The flip side of this is that social cons have a very crude reason to threaten not to vote for Rudy: by promising to sabotage a Rudy candidacy, they hope to scare socially liberal Republicans into accepting one of their candidates.

My take on all this: the reason we have primaries is to avoid this infighting. Whoever wins the primary deserves our support. All of the Republican candidates should be saying this. Any Republican candidate who does encourage his supporters to vote for the primary winner should be shunned by the rest (especially RON PAUL*).

* I had the misfortune of sitting near a RON PAUL supporter today in a restaurant. He must have said "RON PAUL" five times, in the space of five sentences. Including "He has to get some RON PAUL literature." Every sentence included the name. He was like the Matt Damon character from "Team America: World Police." Honest. These people are retards.

Ralph L said...

Any Republican candidate who does not encourage his supporters to vote for the primary winner should be shunned by the rest
is I assume what you mean.

Revenant said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blogging cockroach said...

my favorite pays bas painter is named gerard ter borch
sometimes spelled ter bosch which causes no end of confusion
except if you look at h bosch and g ter borch paintings side by side
which you probably won't do in any museum
you will be able to see the difference
h bosch was on some pretty kinky trips
g ter borch painted portraits and genre pictures in the 1600's
they look like vermeer and norman rockwell got together
and decided to compromise but vermeer really won
althouse's recent picture waiting for bad food
looks like a lovely thoughtful ter borch portrait
i'm really glad about that because i don't want
anyone i know painted by h bosch
unless of course they happen to be a politician

blogging cockroach said...

that reminds me
who besides h bosch do you think
should paint the portraits of rudy, hillary
and all the other presidential candidates
would you like to see a cubist rudy
and an abstract expressionist romney
because he's a drip and all over the place
well you get the idea
tell us what you think...

Cedarford said...

Ann Althouse said...
I should add that that detail of Bosch's Hell is obviously female genitalia.

Another threatening vaginal maw from Alhouse.

It was bad enough when buildings she photo'd were supposedly giant vagina-looking things waiting to swallow you up.

Now Hell...


Seeing excerpts - Preacher Huckabee had the crowd fired up and in his hand. The guy may be a taxer, Open Borders, 2nd man from Hope, Arkansas and unelectable...but damn is he likable and a good speaker.

Romney gave the other very good speech of the night - at least one that had an effect on the crowd - it was articulate, addressed the issues the crowd wanted addressed, and Mitt spoke confidently with real fire in his belly.

Giuliani spoke well, but his problem is he spent a lifetime positioning himself as out of the Christian conservative circle...he isn't trusted. So his speech had little effect outside the NYC mainstream media wanting the Rudy-Hillary final matchup. He has McCain's problem of trustability no matter how hard he says he will fight the evildoers and save Israel...for the Fundie's Rapture...

And Thompson was flat.

reader_iam said...

how bout shitty snaps from worst cams of anyall types of all thoseshits and be done with it and amen who cares lifes crap and otherpeople moreso

Palladian said...

Bosch was an imaginative but mediocre painter. His paintings are often thin, dry and blanched-looking, with clumsy compositions more suited for the manuscript than a large panel. They're most successful when examined closely, which is why you often see details of them rather than reproductions of the entire panel. Even though Bosch worked during the time of the early Italian Renaissance, he was not really a Renaissance artist at all, rather more of a transitional figure still rooted firmly in the late Gothic tradition.

I'll second the roach's admiration of Gerard ter Borch. Even though he is associated with the Dutch genre painters of the 17th century, his works don't have the Norman Rockwell kind of lightness that handicaps so many other works of the genre genre. There's a pensive, philosophical melancholy in many of his paintings that is endlessly intriguing. Here are two (1,2) of my favorite ter Borch portraits on the great website of the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam. Be sure to click on the "extra large view of the image" link, which is the main reason the site is so good; most museum websites are nauseatingly stingy with their online reproductions, unlike the Rijksmuseum.

Of course, I think the blogging cockroach actually likes Dutch 17th century painting so much because of all the still life paintings full of over-ripe food, cheeses, upturned roemers of wine, breadcrumbs, dead animals, wilting vegetables and so on. Admit it!

Palladian said...

readeriam, are you ok?

reader_iam said...

Just checking out the stylistic possibilities, dontcha know.

Palladian said...

Oh, I thought you might be having a transient ischemic attack, the kind that seems to continuously afflict some of our more strident commenters.

Palladian said...

Which would make it a continuous ischemic attack, I guess.

reader_iam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
reader_iam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
reader_iam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
reader_iam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kirk Parker said...


(               )

reader_iam said...

Oh, I'm sorry. (Didn't do it fast enough.) Regardless: thanks, Kirk.

Unknown said...

Ann Althouse, projecting her own feelings, said that the maw found Giuliani deliciously satisfying.

And then a few hours later, he came in next to last place, with <2% of the vote.

So I guess it wasn't quite accurate that the maw found him deliciously satisfying.

It seemed so perfect, when you said that, skewering the NYT for its liberal bias with facts gleaned from its own story. But it turns out you were wrong. The values voters don't like Giuliani. The NYT was right to characterize the values voters convention as unfriendly territory.

In other words, it wasn't bias, it was fact.

Giuliani trails with 1.85% of the vote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21391400/

blogging cockroach said...

i'm afraid i can't deny it
i love the look of overripe cheeses
and all those orange peels ooh la la
i'd give you links but i can only hop on the keys one at a time
and it's way past bedtime and such a pain to push the mouse around this time of night
one picture in amsterdam looks very interesting
with all the ripe fruit etc
except there's a monkey looking things over
and you can imagine what he would do
if he saw me
i'm afraid palladian caught me out
on my own little computer porn habit
except if you visit museum sites
and look at 17th century paintings
you will not get 97 e-mails the next day
telling you about hot russian babes

Fen said...

I still don't understand the Pro-Life position re Giuliani. POTUS has ZERO effect on abortion rights. The most he can do is appoint judges who are strict constructionists.

Palladian said...

"Giuliani trails with 1.85% of the vote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21391400/"

I didn't realize there's already been an election.

Oh, that's right, it's more than one year away. Unbunch your panties, Recto. Have a drink. Relax. You've got next year to be a total douchbag.

Obviously you've been practicing for quite some time.

reader_iam said...

This is not snark.

But since when did Palladian ever care about anything I ever said about anything at any time? I was, and am stunned, by his question of earlier tonight. It stung. It stings.

I don't get it. What was that about?

reader_iam said...

What have I done to deserve that?

Revenant said...

It seemed so perfect, when you said that, skewering the NYT for its liberal bias

Ann didn't say anything about NYT bias. Furthermore, it was the NYT itself that was claiming Giuliani did well with the values voters -- so if you want to mock someone for getting that "wrong", Michael Luo is the one you're looking for.

The values voters don't like Giuliani.

Maybe, but the poll results don't support that claim.

The poll indicates which of the candidates values voters like the most. So 98% of them think Rudy isn't their best choice. That doesn't mean they don't like him. That could mean anything from (in the worst case) "98% of values voters hate him" to (at the other extreme) "2% of values voters think he's the best choice and the other 98% think he's their second-favorite candidate".

The obvious message of the poll results is that the values voters don't have a clear favorite -- the "winner" managed to snag a measly 28% of the vote. That's great news for Rudy, because the greatest threat to his campaign right now is the possibility that the religious right might unite behind a single opponent of his.

Revenant said...

What have I done to deserve that?

I think he meant to respond to Verso and accidentally quoted your article by mistake. Presumably "Recto" is a play on "Verso"?

Ralph L said...

Ter Borch was and is famous for his technique depicting draped fabric, especially satin. The National Gallery in DC had a special show several years ago with the largest collection of his works, IIRC.

Palladian said...

"I was, and am stunned, by his question of earlier tonight. It stung. It stings...I don't get it. What was that about?"

Huh? You mean when I asked if you were alright? Because I was responding to this:

"how bout shitty snaps from worst cams of anyall types of all thoseshits and be done with it and amen who cares lifes crap and otherpeople moreso"

It didn't seem like something you would write, is all. So I made an inquiry as to your general state of alrightness.

hdhouse said...

Revenant...good point about the poll. Good point.

Randy said...

Reader_IAM: FWIW, had Palladian not asked if you were alright, I would have (had I seen your earlier comment at the time) because it seemed out of character and I wasn't sure to whom or what you were referring. Still, aren't for that matter, but my guess was cockroach.

blogging cockroach said...

i ronin
i was wondering about reader i am too
she not only put up the comment you see with the run-on s-words
but a bunch of strange comments she seems to have deleted
i say 'seems' because maybe somebody hacked her account
or she has teenagers up late watching the sox
and they decided to have fun with mom's computer
already logged onto blogger

another theory i have is that she had too much schnapps
or budweiser or grolsch or '94 vouvray montcontour
while watching the game and probably has a hangover this morning
for which i highly recommend 2 aspirins and 3 cups of coffee
having had too much of those not to mention jack daniels
and eau de vie myself upon occasion

the things people spill

anyway i don't think she was copying my style
because i avoid most bad words
try to be positive and uplifting
and simple clair et logique in
everything i write

blogging cockroach said...

we all should thank palladian
for putting up the info and nice links
about g ter borch who was a great painter
and would have loved to do althouse's portrait
if althouse were around 370 years ago
i suspect althouse was indeed around 370 years ago
along with the rest of us
if you believe in reincarnation

Unknown said...

Speaking of liars:

The U.S. Inspector General may recommend criminal prosecution of departed Attorney General Alberto Gonzales at the conclusion of an investigation, possibly as early as next month, the fired former U.S. attorney for Western Washington told a Spokane audience (for the Federal Bar Association) Friday.[..]

(John) McKay said he was summoned to Washington, D.C., in June and questioned for eight hours about possible reasons for his firing by investigators with the Office of Inspector General, who will forward their final report to Congress.

“My best guess is it will be released sometime next month,” and likely will include recommendations for criminal prosecutions of Gonzales and maybe others, McKay said.

Unknown said...

reader_iam said..."Guiliania, being basically a down-to-earth sort, probably knows that no one ever promised him a rose garden."


Randy said...

Roach, on review, I'm inclined to think, if not caffeine, this may have sent our friend over the edge:

That's what Republicans do to people.

Wingnuts torturing everybody. They'd do what you see in the picture if they had a chance.

Some people simply aren't worth reading so I try to make a habit of not paying much attention to them. Almost every time I have second thoughts about skipping over LOS's ravings I live to regret it.

blogging cockroach said...

i ronin-
actually i was proposing caffeine as the cure
for maybe a little too much cheer celebrating the sox
well-deserved win last night
which may be the factor behind reader's odd comments
be that as it may i think the bit you
quoted was really a parody as pointed out
by someone upthread
i realize one winces and averts one's eyes but
if you can bear to look at the real thing
i'm sure you will note the differences