Episode title: "Sex with Older Women." Topics:
Are you a first-wave baby-boomer (like Hillary) or a second-wave boomer?
Marriage and children as seen on TV
The sex+diet pill
The deep meaning of bras, purses, and pockets
Ann and Annie critique "sex-positive feminism"
Prostitutes, hypocrites, and Justice Scalia
On that first topic, there was a path we should have gone down -- and meant to -- but didn't quite find. Annie expands on that here.
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23 comments:
What a wonderful choice! I love Annie Gottlieb and her blog. I'm listening to some of it right now. But I need to shove off momentarily.
I'm so looking forward to listening to the whole thing!
Mark Daniels
Well, now I can't wait to watch this one! Seems like a fantastic pairing.
By the way, a point you make about Hillary Clinton's candidacy is one that I was making with my wife a few weeks ago. She urged me, "Blog about that," but I never got around to it.
I'm mystified as to why women should feel any special enthusiasm for Clinton's candidacy. She's come to prominence very much in an old school way: through her husband. In that sense, her candidacy doesn't feel like a leap forward, but a step backward. Although she has played an admittedly significant role in the career of her husband, there's something very Eva Peron, Lurleen Wallace, or Muriel Humphrey about her candidacy.
Perhaps had she never met Bill Clinton, Hillary Rodham would have become a senator from Illinois or something. She is an able person. But as it is, she comes to the American people with a rather slim vita: six-plus years in the US Senate and a long marriage to a former President.
Clinton hardly seems like the appropriate embodiment of dreams of gender equality.
Mark Daniels
Bea Arthur
You two were right: There are at least two (and maybe three) groups of Baby Boomer.
I was born in 1951, and I always felt that the "cool stuff" was already over by the time that I arrived. For example, when I made it to San Francisco at age 18, that whole Haight-Asbury scene was mainly a memory.
Now I read "the Boomers are retiring en masse," and I think, "Who's that? I have many working years left."
And there is a younger group, born around 1960, who feel way out of touch with the Baby Boomer meme but are not quite sure if they are Gen-X either. What do we call them?
Fun....
But I couldn't figure out who Ms. Gottlieb is. Neither the intro or her blog says much about who she is or what she has written, etc.
And there is a younger group, born around 1960, who feel way out of touch with the Baby Boomer meme but are not quite sure if they are Gen-X either. What do we call them?
Consider the 1958-1960 Cadillacs; How's about "The Tail Fins?"
'58, meself.
I'm with Mark Daniels' first comment. Can't watch the whole thing just now, but I sure will later.
I've always wondered when these two would get together. I'm sure all the cross-over regulars on both blogs have been wondering that for a long time, too.
For those of you who may not know Annie's work, please, go check out her blog. Andrew Lawrence Cohen called her "the best diarist on the Internet," and it's hard to disagree. I would say, though, that she is more than a diarist. The blog format is essentially a diary, and Annie writes a lot about her life. But many of her pieces transcend the personal or everyday that may have inspired them and move into realms of sheer beauty.
And, of course, she writes set pieces on news items, articles and books, movies, etc., along the lines of what we might expect on Althouse, but with a rather different sensibility. Althouse and Amba often make a wonderful contrast when writing about the same subject—different enough to be interesting, but with the same commitment to intellectual and emotional honesty and discussion.
I've long considered that there were three groups of Baby Boomers:
Group 1: You remember seeing Elvis on the Ed Sullivan Show;
Group 2: You remember seeing the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show;
Group 3: You remember Ed Sullivan.
And there is a younger group, born around 1960, who feel way out of touch with the Baby Boomer meme but are not quite sure if they are Gen-X either. What do we call them?
Matt Groening coined the term "wedgie" generation. Several friends and I have adopted that. If you were born from 1958 to 1968, you are a wedgie--for being wedged between Boomers and X-ers.
One guy calls it Generation Jones for some dumb ass reason (and he moves it too far forward-from 1955 to 1965.)
Whatever you call us, we hate being lumped in with boomers or with X-ers. We are, as a group, disproportionately libertarian and tend to be very cynical of both boomer idealism and X-er angst.
We remember the last gasp of the non-nanny state in the late 70s and early 80s. We were, by and large, left to our own devices. (I'll never forget how uncontrolling my high school was--that isn't to say kids didn't do dumb things, but there was none of the zero tolerance over reaction crap.)You could also buy Playboy off the magazine rack and buy smokes for your parents. The drinking age was still 18 in many places and it was acceptable for parents to let their kids have parties at their house so they wouldn't get into trouble elsewhere. It was, to me, the last gasp of a healthy society.
We've also observed that most people who fit the wedgie profile have parents who weren't boomers (i.e. parents were born before 1945.)
By the way, Generation-X historically does define the generation I referred to above. The problem is that in the early 1990s it was hijacked by the marketing mavens to describe kids were were sill in High School and who are technically Generation-Y, thus the need for a new moniker.
I've never heard my age group described as "wedgie" or "gen-x," but rather that boomers were born between 1945 and 1964. I am the youngest and was born in 1961. My siblings were born 1949, '52, '54, and '57. Our parents are children of the depression and my father is a WWII vet. However, I always noticed that some of my peers have a very different experience and outlook than I have, and also that I do not share the perspective of most boomers. I think Joe nails it with "We've also observed that most people who fit the wedgie profile have parents who weren't boomers (i.e. parents were born before 1945.)" My friends who are my age but have parents that were younger than mine do seem more like Gen-X than boomers. I also agree with "I'll never forget how uncontrolling my high school was..." The mid/late '70s were something!
Ann,
FANTASTIC
Two inteligent, engaging, personalities freely conversing about the chosen topics and at the same time revealing some of the context in which the opinions were formed. Illuminating.
I think that you somewhat achieved your goal of a free flowing, wide ranging discussion, lightly moving from topic to topic, with nary a hint of wonkiness.
At the same time it was very unsatisfying in that there were so many interesting topics that could have been developed more deeply.
I know that the bloggingheads format doesn't allow for that but it would be really interesting if you and Annie expanded on some of the topics in an email dialog and then published them on your blogs.
I agree with Lee David. Great chemistry. Nice vibe. Incidentally the first talking blogheads episode I've watched more than once.
Oh, and Melinda's groupings are perfect.
I completely agree with lee david and Meade. This was the best Bloggingheads I've seen, and, like Meade, it's the first on I could stand to watch again, despite the somewhat poor technical qulaity.
Althouse was at ease and in good form, and Annie is a gem (but we already knew that). Surprisingly, Annie's voice sounded exactly as I imagined it would. She is very easy to listen to, and should do a podcast as well.
Althouse should do more with Annie, as david lee suggests. The only downside is that Annie could get an influx of nasty commenters. Everything has its price.
It mystifies me why people insist on claiming that Hillary piggybacked her way into the political arena on her husband.
After the "incident" was made public about Lewinsky she decided it was a good time to step away from her husband's shadow and start doing her own thing.
Hillary may not be the best choice for '08 but she's not the evil, manipulating witch the right (and often the left) make her out to be.
Historical link to "the pencil test."
Ruth Anne: Great!!
Back Door: Your comment doesn't make sense. Just because there was a downside to her association with Bill doesn't mean there wasn't an upside that she actively pursued. She may have distanced herself a bit after he got into trouble, but she won an immense amount of recognition through his brilliant political skill and charisma. He's used her too, of course, and continues to.
Althouse,
I never claimed that her relationship with Bill Clinton didn't help her, and I am sure she used the relationship to her advantage. However the way everyone is making it seem as though the only goal she had for her marriage with Bill Clinton was to gain publicity for herself is very unfair.
"However the way everyone is making it seem as though the only goal she had for her marriage with Bill Clinton was to gain publicity for herself is very unfair."
The way you're asserting that everyone is making it seem as though the only goal she had for her marriage with Bill Clinton was to gain publicity for herself is very unfair.
Haha, I do hope it was clear enough that 'everyone' was a vast generalization, but it is increasingly popular for people to make snide comments like the one you made, "I don't like the idea of a woman who got to where she is now through a man" that reinforce the manner in which fox news and other anti-Hillary people erroneously illustrate her.
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