But Iger's got a real problem here with Rosie. Because I think Rosie wants to get fired. I don't think she's this paranoid. At the end of the day, I don't think she believes George Bush blew up the World Trade Centers.So it's all about the money? That's oddly similar to O'Donnell's own political thought, seen here on "The View." And it's a fundamental part of the 9/11 conspiracy theory.
But I do believe that Barbara Walters owns every back end piece of that show. Barbara might wear gloves up to her forearms. But the fact is she's got sharp elbows right above that. And Rosie has no back end on that show. She needs to get out of that deal. Because with the ratings spike she's brought to "The View", she realizes if she has part ownership in a daytime show she can print money.
So she is going increasingly outlandish. I think she's trying to get whacked.
Click here to enlarge. This is a poster for a 2-day conference on the 9/11 conspiracy theory at the University of Texas. We see a 50s-style family watching the 9/11 attack on TV. One is saying "How does this happen?" and the other "Who benefits from this?"
Posts
43 comments:
These conspiracy theories on 9/11 are hysterical in my opinion.
Somehow the stupidest man on the face of the earth, who can hardly keep a single national security secret out of the editorial page of the NY Times succeeded in pulling off the most devastating attack on US soil and other than conjecture, no one has leaked anything.
One would also think that if he could pull that off, you'd think we would have 'found' some WMDs in Iraq.
Then again when you have some people who think the moon landing was done on a sound stage I suppose conspiracy theories replace religion as the opium for the masses.
Come on, I'm sure the US Govt did it. People with PhDs say it happened that way!
Sincerely,
MadisonMan, PhD
P.S.: Three weeks for a package to go from Madison to Iraq! I wonder if the next box will go faster.
Although I do not have a shred of doubt that 9/11 was the act of terrorists and not the US government, Vice President of the United States and second in command, Dick Cheney's public characterizations of the war in Iraq, including Hussein's deep and symbiotic connections with Al Queda, do little to discourage the construction of conspiracy theories.
We're indeed a 50:50 nation.
But now a goodly portion of the left's 50 is flat-out insane. It reminds me of my training at a VA psych ward, or walking in downtown Chicago, and the disheveled guy with his pants falling off shouting hey Hey HEY!! couldn't quite describe what he was seeing.
Except now they're on national TV, showing award-winning documentaries, and getting elected to Congress. What a loony bin is the far left these days, and I mean that in the precise medical terminology way. They're worse than the John Birchers.
"One is saying "How does this happen?" and the other "Who benefits from this?""
Seems to me that Alex Jones and various conspiracy theorists have benefitted tremendously from the attacks of 9/11. They have sold books, given speeches for which they were paid, they have gained political followers enhancing their sway.
I think that must mean that they were behind 9/11. Those bastards!
So maybe Rosie's approach to TV is the same as Ann's approach to blogging . . . think about it!
Unlike O'Donnell, I haven't seen Ann come up any ethnic slurs and then refuse to apologize for them when pointed out.
The perfect role for Rosie was "Riding the Bus with My Sister".
If you haven't eaten in the last 30 minutes, you should be safe to watch it here.
Oddly, it's indistinguishable from her appearances on The View.
A couple of thoughts spurred by the "who benefits?" question on the poster promoting a 9/11 conspiracy theory conference:
* By this logic, any time our country is attacked, it must be the Republicans who did it, because being the patriotic party, they benefit when the nation is threatened.
* If "who benefits?" is the key question, then these conspiracy theorists should argue that the suicide bombings and atrocities in Iraq are being committed by American leftists, because they benefit by the failure of Bush's plan for peace and democracy in Iraq.
On the one hand they call Bush the "shrub" and dumber than a box of hammers. On the other they accuse him of being so incredibly devious and clever that he would attack the W.T.C., the Pentagon, and the failed attempt on the White House to give oil contracts to Halliburton, et al.
No, see, Bush is still really dumb and all, but he's being controlled by the devious and evil Cheney-Rove crowd.
I watched that segment and I don't know whether to agree or not. On the one hand, if she does get fired for making these outrageous statements it would give her enormous street cred with the Left; nothing like being "silenced" for "speaking truth to power" to establish one's Leftist credentials. She's got enough money as it is, so she's probably way more interested in peer approval than dough.
OTOH, I think she really does believe it. It's easy to believe in this stuff and Hollywood types trade in the suspension of disbelief daily. Besides, it's doubtful she associates with anyone who won't nod in agreement with at least the underlying truthiness of it.
Then again when you have some people who think the moon landing was done on a sound stage:
My blogpartner confessed the other day that he might have had a hand in Rosie's science education
at Dickinson College.
Oh, but it was! And hundreds of thousands of people have kept it a secret. That's what really happened in the Apollo 1 fire, you know. Gus Grissom was about to spill the beans, so that had to whack him. At least that's what I've read.
I understand that this was (probably) tongue in cheek, but oh my(!) what prescience Gus must have had, what with the moon landing happening on the Apollo 11 flight!
Not only did the guy they refer to as being so dumb pull this off so cleverly, he did it in only 8 months in office! To pull off a scam like that with so little time to plan... too brilliant for words.
On the other hand (new conspiracy theory here), Clinton/Gore had 8 years to plan it. Perhaps the idea was that if Gore got elected, he could become a big hero dealing with terrorism, and if he lost they could undercut the guy that beat him and ruin his presidency. How else do you explain how Gore went from being a hawk on Saddam while he was VP to saying Pres. Bush "betrayed this country" by doing what he thought Clinton should do in '98. It's a government conspiracy alright... but GORE was behind it!
How's THAT for a conspiracy!
In case anyone thinks I'm serious, I believe that the people who have SAID they did it, to whom all the evidence points, actually did it. Go figure!
No prescience needed - Gus was part of the rehearsal and thus knew all about it. It's well-known that NASA wanted one of the Mercury 7 to be the lead actor in its production of 'The First Man On The Moon' and Gus was that man. Since the Apollo program was staged, so was Gemini - no need to actually go into earth orbit to practice those docking manuevers and space walks. Those were staged, too - look carefully at the space walk films, you can see the wires. It's all part of NASA's infamous plan - I think they called it Plan 9.
But don't you see? The fact that they are so clear eyed that they were able to see through Bush's deceptions and lies just proves that he is as stupid as they believe he is. The fact that we continue to support him proves how stupid we are to be taken in by his lies.
I think that Miller was wrong and that Rosie really does believe what she says. In fact, I hope she does. I'd rather believe she was that ignorant and gullible than believe that she's willing to spread such maliciousness for her own benefit. I prefer to believe the best about people. The fact that the best I can believe about Rosie is that she's a useful idiot for our enemies is tragic.
DaveG, you really, really don't understand. The moon landing was faked *years* before it was proclaimed. Remember JFK's promise to "put a man on the moon in this decade" (or words to that effect)? How could he say this in the tenor of the times?
Easy!! The landing had already been faked in Hollywood. Thus, when Gus Grissom threatened to blow the whistle, he had to go. Unfortunately, rather than the easy plane crash or car crash (those astronauts were famous for flying and driving like crazy men), it was decided to make the whole thing EVEN MORE DRAMATIC AND DANGEROUS appearing by killing him in the vehicle, which meant two innocent others had to die, too.
This of course meant many, many more people had to be added to the conspiracy, but the fact that *no one* has leaked any actual evidence of the faked moon landing and the murder of Grissom just proves that the conspiracy is really, really good. Plus, they undoubtedly kill anyone who is a leak threat. Why, I'll bet a bunch that if you look up all the people who were present during the origin, launch, and conclusion of the faked moon landing, many, many of them are DEAD!! I ask you, doesn't this *PROVE* that they are being killed to keep the conspiracy (known only to me and a few million other assorted nutcases) secret?
Sheeesh. LOOK at the (no-)evidence, man! It's proof absolute of the conspiracy.
But wait! Who sank the Titanic?
Better keep this away from Rosie becaue she'll be all over this like white on rice.
"Dennis Miller on Rosie O'Donnell"
Ewwwwww....
The funniest thing about Rosie's wild allegations is, to me, that despite her evident belief that the attack on the WTC was a conspiracy that involved the setting of explosives on building 7...she hasn't done anything about it. How can she live with herself, chatting it up with guests like Chris Rock, Phyllis Diller and Tim McGraw when she KNOWS THE TRUTH! She obviously has some kind of personality disorder if she can in one breath suggest a conspiracy so vast... and in the next breath ask some singer in a cowboy hat, "how much did Garth Brooks inspire you?"
But it's true. She has ABC in a bind now. If they fire her, she can cry "cover up" and write a book about it. If they keep her on the air, she will just get nuttier and nuttier, and discredit the network.
I think ABC's only choice is to fire Elizabeth Hasselbeck and then, six weeks later, fire Rosie. That way, she can't claim it had anything to do with her politics, since they fired the right-winger first.
No evidence is always proof of a conspiracy. ;-)
Seriously? I think it's a condition similar to paranoia. It just usually doesn't stop people from functioning so we don't even have a real name for it.
After all, someone *might* really be out to get a person. Simply believing that someone is out to get you doesn't make you paranoid. Believing that there is a conspiracy doesn't automatically make you a fruitcake.
But people do believe that the moon landing was fake and people do believe stuff about 9-11 that makes the fake moon landing guys look down right rational.
I think it's a disorder. I really do. I think that conspiracy theories work like a drug in the brain. I think they take our natural functions of pattern recognition and puzzle solving, the very things that make us *sentient* and pervert them to a significant pleasure response at being the one who sees the truth, who figured out the puzzle, who saw the patterns.
If it were rational the people who believe the conspiracy theories would react rationally to the knowledge that they live in a country where our leaders would do these things. They don't.
One of my favorite authors has a passage in one of her novels that can be paraphrased like this... a man is blocking a hallway... "So, if you are [who you are], you can even get away with murder." And the answer, "If you truly believe that, why are you standing in my way?" The man blocking the hallway *moves*.
That's what is missing with the conspiracy theorists... rational behavior in the face of their beliefs.
Rosie believes that our government may well have murdered over 3,000 people and that (as must be true) there are a large number of people willing to do that... and she doesn't think they are going to kill *her*.
I saw this poster (quite possibly the exact same one you photographed, Ann) earlier today.
Striking points: (1) The "Ph.D." behind a couple of the names, lending extra weight. (2) The fact that they never quite come out and claim their conspiracy theory in the poster, just imply it.
Insanity is the ability to believe two contradictory ideas at the same time without any feeling of conflict.
Bush is and idiot who can't chew gum and walk at the same time. AND Bush masterminded an attack on the World Trade Center and fooled every political leader worldwide to falling into his web of deceit.
Aaaallrighty then.
Oh yes, I remember Play 9 well. Plan 9 from Outer Space is one of my favorite movies. It was going to expose all the secrets of the administration, but, before he could talk Ed Wood had Bela Lugosi killed. This is even a bigger coverup than Capricorn One.
9/11 Conspiracy News The Mainstream Media Missed
Does guessing at some hidden motive on Rosie's part really move the ball an inch? It's a silly example of the churning the bloggosphere so often descends to. Her expressed views are ridiculous enough -- engage them or not as you chose, but don't we have any number of more important and interesting things to talk about?
"Dennis Miller on Rosie O'Donnell"
Dennis Miller was on the view pretty recently, and Rosie was amazingly controlled with him (Joy's affect was different, too), even with regard to politics, where they differ quite a bit. Elizabeth could and has expressed similar things, but what a difference in reaction!
One could speculate about that in a number of ways, yes?
Cui bono is an excellent heuristic to use when nothing else is known.
It's a lousy shortcut, however, to simply state that your enemies benefit and therefore they're the cause of whatever you dislike.
(Especially as it discounts that other people -such as those your enemies blame - also benefit, or at least think they benefit from the same actions.
Evidently in their minds, benefit can motivate the Bush Administration to a ludicrously impossible to keep secret and, if ever discovered, politically utterly suicidal plot...
But somehow the idea that actual Muslims terrorists who've been calling the US "the Great Satan" and attacking US facilities and people overseas for decades would think they'd benefit from an attack on the US is incomprehensible.
In short, it's like accusing someone of a robbery because they could use the money - no matter how much they have, no matter how much getting caught would cost them and how likely it is. After all, they had a possible motive! They'd benefit!)
Mindsteps,
Who's characterizing Hussein's deep sympathy for Al-Qaeda? Read:
"Al-Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al-Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al-Qaeda would work cooperatively with the government of Iraq."
No, that's not from the mouth of Dick Cheney. That's from the text of the Clinton administration's indictment of Hussein. It's just convenient for Dems to forget anything that happened prior to Bush taking office.
What's amazing to me is that people can believe things like this, but if you suggest that Democrats favor expansion of government regulations and programs (if only in part) because of the contributions they receive from government employees' unions, or (more abstractly) that they favor the continual expansion of government responsibility because it puts them in control of a larger and more influential sphere, they look at you like you have 2 heads.
Sportscaster Chris Collinsworth, who used to be a regular on Cincinnati radio, says when nothing else makes sense, the answer in money.
Under that theory, Dennis Miller is right.
David said...
"It is idiotic positions emanating from the left like that which proves that marijuana and other mind altering drugs should continue to be illegal."
Actually, if we let them toast their brains with drugs, maybe they'd sink back into the woodwork, so stoned that they would leave the rest of us alone. And THAT, more even than the other casualties in the "War on (some) Drugs" is why drugs should be legalized.
yo...rightwing numbnuts...
rosie is good for ratings. that she doesn't have equity in the view is besides the point. the value of barbara's equity is enhanced by rosie..she need not carry equity to be counted as an asset.
is she any wierder than Bill O'Really? Sean Makeitup? Rush Drugbaugh? Matt Druggs? or how about Ann Coulter...talk about value!
She wants to get fired so she's free to bail out Air America and take it over. Then she'll install herself as its main commentator. Her insane rants would fit in there perfectly.
yo...rightwing numbnuts...
Excuse me? I know lots of people who are very far from being being wight-wing who don't care for O'Donnell or her ignorant tirades.
Most of my Chinese friends, none of whom is right-wing or even a Republican, think she is a an unapologetic bigot.
About half of my gay friends, only one or two of whom are Republicans, detest her because she lied about her sexuality when she was afraid that it might adversely impact her talk show ratings, and then bragged about her bravery in coming-out non-stop (and continues to do so) once she realized that not only did it not matter, it was financially lucrative to be out.
True, mine is not a scientific sampling, but it is closer to the truth than your broad paintbrush will ever get.
What's sad about Rosie is she's not even up to date with the latest conspiracy fantasies. She's citing already well debunked issues (steel melting? WTC 7 falling "on it's own footprint? Steel doesn't have to melt for it to lose it's ability to bear weight, and the molten metal found elsewhere (yes, it's established through rescue personnel testimony that molten metal was witnessed) could have any one of a dozen explanations (fire buiried by concrete and therefore very well insulated, for example). And no one's established that the molten metal found on the ground months after the fact was indeed steel. Also, WTC 7 did not fall on it's own "footprint"; the Verizon building and 30 West Broadway, to the west and northeast of WTC7 both suffered heavy damage from building 7 debris). Conspiracy fantasists have moved on from all those already. The current state of the conspiracy fantasy pushers is in debating anomalies in testimony about the level of damage to WTC7, or nit-picking issues in Dr. Frank Greening's kinetic energy study of the collapse.
And no, I don't think Dennis Miller is right here. I don't think Rosie's that unhinged as an act. I think she might actually believe what she's saying. But even if she doesn't, I don't think she'd care. 9/11 conspiracy fantasy is much more a vehicle for Bush/Cheney hatred than it is for actual truth finding. It always has been.
And: Ugh! I know everyone here's joking about faked moon landing evidence, but man! That stuff is sooooooo tiresome. Folks here are joking, but too many elsewhere are not. I've been following stupid conspiracy fantasies and terrible fake science (yes, so called 9/11 "Truth" studies involve shoddy science) since I tripped over Von Däniken and Velikovsky in high school, and also discovered that Kennedy conspiracy theorists were serious (before high school, I thought that people believing it were all part of some kind of large, societal joke). Some of the stuff here is just too accurate a play on the "Gotcha!" kind of forced logic that all conspiracy fantasy prone indulge in.
The presence of conspiracy fantasy addicts is, to me, damning proof that the American public education system has failed. Too many of those folks commit the most egregious of logical fallacies and display the worst combinations of empericism and superstition in their behavior (a combination I didn't think possible until my high school epiphany). And they wrap themselves in the mantle of brave folks who're "just asking questions", ignoring the I-once-thought obvious prerequisite that they actually inform and educate themselves beforehand.
Proud, loud, self contratulatory ignorance is the worst kind.
O'Donnell is nothing more than a carnival barker cajoling the easily fooled into looking at the bearded, fat lady, on display for a dime.
Correction: O'Donnell is "the bearded, fat lady." What a kookbat.
The idiotic paranoid "truthers" seem to completely ignore the extensive damage done to WTC 7 before it fell. It makes their propaganda easier to sell.
Don't kid yourselves -- those network execs have gotten exactly what they wanted -- better ratings. I believe that Rosie doesn't necessarily want to get fired. She knows that she has more money than she will ever need, and can therefore say whatever enters her mind and voice her political opinions. True, she is loud, opinionated, and often outlandish, but she is a woman of conscience and thinks for herself. The fact that she is politically offbase is forgiveable. She has two endearing qualities, in that she is extremely generous and cares about the underdog (the disadvantaged, minorities, women's issues). In short, she is one to judge by what she does, not what she says. What she attempts to do is to remind the big guys that they are accountable and must answer to their conscience. I think a lot of them don't like that. She seems to understand the responsibility of fame. While I strongly disagree with her political views, particularly on Bush, I ignore that side of her. Plus, the fact that she is gay (sadly) puts a lot of people off to begin with, which makes her more defensive and aggressive. I think that she is a heartfelt person who has a voice and uses it for her agenda. I am sure that this year has shown her that she must indeed take what she dishes out. She has harangued enough, saying mean/silly things and has had the same said of her. I think that all the media needs a course in civility; it's not one-sided. Entertainers should keep their politics to themselves. They should realize they are up there because they entertain and not because we care about their political views.
"P.S.: Three weeks for a package to go from Madison to Iraq!"
Actually, it depends on the final destination within Iraq. When we were stationed in Karbala, it took 3 to 5 weeks for packages to get to us. But when we were 90 miles north at Abu Ghuraib, it took about 7 to 10 days to get a package.
Speaking of bullshit theories:
One of the more inane talking points embraced by supporters of the war is the notion that withdrawal from Iraq is inherently dangerous, because “the enemy will follow us home.”
The president and his allies tend to repeat this, mantra like, without ever pausing to wonder if it makes sense.
It’s always been a dubious claim. For one thing, most of the violence in Iraq is the result of a civil war. Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias are not likely to “follow us home.”
For another, as Fred Kaplan recently noted, “if terrorists wanted to attack American territory again (and maybe they do), their ability to do so is unaffected by whether we stay in or pull out of Iraq. It’s not as if they’re all holed up in Baghdad and Anbar province, just waiting for the fighting to stop so they can climb out of their foxholes and go blow up New York. If al-Qaida is a global network, its agents can fight in both places.”
And yet, we keep hearing the phrase, as if repeating it will make it true. McClatchy’s William Douglas took the unusual step of scrutinizing the comment’s accuracy. Guess what he found.
Military and diplomatic analysts say it isn’t [true]. They accuse Bush of exaggerating the threat that enemy forces in Iraq pose to the U.S. mainland.
“The president is using a primitive, inarticulate argument that leaves him open to criticism and caricature,” said James Jay Carafano, a homeland security and counterterrorism expert for the Heritage Foundation, a conservative policy organization.
“It’s a poor choice of words that doesn’t convey the essence of the problem - that walking away from a problem doesn’t solve anything.”
U.S. military, intelligence and diplomatic experts in Bush’s own government say the violence in Iraq is primarily a struggle for power between Shiite and Sunni Muslim Iraqis seeking to dominate their society, not a crusade by radical Sunni jihadists bent on carrying the battle to the United States.
When a Heritage Foundation staffer, who opposes withdrawal, is accusing the president of relying on a “primitive” and “inarticulate” argument, you know it’s bad.
“The war in Iraq isn’t preventing terrorist attacks on America,” said one U.S. intelligence official, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because he’s contradicting the president and other top officials. “If anything, that — along with the way we’ve been treating terrorist suspects — may be inspiring more Muslims to think of us as the enemy.”
tibore:
"The presence of conspiracy fantasy addicts is, to me, damning proof that the American public education system has failed."
Yeah, that's it.
ONLY in America do people have conspiracy theories...'cause we so damn dumb.
That's probably why so many people want to be here.
This seems pertinent to the discussion at hand: Rosie's New Book Club
Post a Comment