“How’s your boy?” Bush asked, referring to Webb’s son, a Marine serving in Iraq.And then there's the part where Webb supposedly could barely control his impulse to punch Bush in the face. Sources say.
“I’d like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President,” Webb responded, echoing a campaign theme.
“That’s not what I asked you,” Bush said. “How’s your boy?”
“That’s between me and my boy, Mr. President,” Webb said coldly, ending the conversation on the State Floor of the East Wing of the White House.
ADDED: There's a lot of talk in the comments. I just want to say that I don't believe that Bush responded to Webb quite like that. I don't believe Webb was quite like that either. He sounds mental. I want to know who told the anecdote, because the whole thing is phrased strangely. It compliments neither man.
Posts
244 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 244 of 244madawaskin, it's not up to you to say when the discussion ends. My bet is that this exchange between Weeb and Bush will come up again and agian -- twisted and mangled on this blog, accurately reported on others -- for some time. If you take one look at Webb's service you might understand him better. Disagreeing with his opinions on military regulations and policies is something I would think he could meet in civil debate. Althouse's speculating about his mental state is about as useful as her critique of a blogger who points out her hypocrisy -- losts of name-calling, but absolutely no substance.
Have you noticed that Althouse simply threw up a few words and you all run like dogs with one little bone amongst you?
Pathetic come to mind. It must be why she has such a high opinion of herself -- you all do feed her ego.
Normally, yes. Given his history, Bush is not normal
Do try to remember that unlike yourself I am not a BDS sufferer. "His history" is that he's a nice guy who makes it a point to extend friendly gestures to political opponents, and has continued to do so in the face of repeated attempts to paint him as a booze-addled mass-murdering fascist dictator.
That might, perhaps, not be normal, but it certainly doesn't lend any credibility to the story you're trying to push. :)
Nice passive, ambiguous construction. Any citations?
Hm. While you're busy asking madawaskan for his sources, why not take a minute to ask Larry Sabato what HIS sources are? Or -- let me guess -- are unnamed sources and unsourced anecdotes only questionable when you disagree with what they say? :)
Do try to remember that unlike yourself I am not a BDS sufferer.
Do try to remember that unlike yourself, I'm in the majority.
While you're busy asking madawaskan for his sources, why not take a minute to ask Larry Sabato what HIS sources are?
No. I want to know this poster's sources for stuff about Webb on the trail. Should be easier than hearsay, given how widely reported the race was.
I'm sorry, but Bush (the president) asking Webb about his son (who's fighting in a war which Webb disagreed with) is a truly bizarre choice of "small talk."
Putting Webb in a position of having to pretend he's not mad at Bush for sending his son over there is not an innocent gesture.
Let me put it this way, if this story didn't reflect poorly on Bush, Ann wouldn't have a hard time believing it.
Do try to remember that unlike yourself, I'm in the majority.
Well I've never seen exact statistics, but I'm *pretty* sure that a majority of Americans aren't assholes. So you're probably wrong on that one.
And in any case, very few Americans would agree with you that George Bush's history suggests he'd mock the parent of an endangered US soldier by pretending to ask after the soldier's well-being. That's purely the realm of people who automatically assume that "truth" and "whatever theory makes Bush look worst" are always and in all cases two identical things.
"why not take a minute to ask Larry Sabato what HIS sources are?"
No.
Looks like my "only people you disagree with need evidence for their assertions" theory was right on the money.
Freder, what Republicans at the time criticized Chelsea Clinton?
Well, it would be easy to say that Rush Limbaugh did, because he did. But let us see if a high ranking Republican politician did the same. Ah yes, we have Senator John McCain.
And in any case, very few Americans would agree with you that George Bush's history suggests he'd mock the parent of an endangered US soldier by pretending to ask after the soldier's well-being.
Karla Faye Tucker might tend to disagree with that. Cindy Sheehan too. General Shinseki. Perhaps there is some video of a young George Bush flipping off a camera.
Well I've never seen exact statistics, but I'm *pretty* sure that a majority of Americans aren't assholes. So you're probably wrong on that one.
Well helLO, Captain Civility! But you are right, I am an asshole. And yet, a majority of Americans agree with me about Iraq, Bush's performance as preznit and that the Dems should be in charge.
Looks like my "only people you disagree with need evidence for their assertions" theory was right on the money.
Nope, it's not. I don't see Sabato here, and he was reporting hearsay, which I merely brought up because this whole kerfuffle is based on that.
Instead, I'm more interested in a citation to a freaking news story or anything that shows Webb wore his sons boots, or whatever. That poster made an assertion, and I'd love a citation. But if he can't cite, such is life. I'll continue to revel in the fact that Webb won, the Dems own Congress, and you Bush apologists will be consigned to the proverbial dustbin of history.
ntodd,
The Senate is not a 'branch' of government. There is no such word as "loosers".
The Senate is not a 'branch' of government. There is no such word as "loosers".
Teh Stupid, it burns.
The Senate is a chamber in what just so happens to be a co-equal branch of government. And while 'loosers' is an inside joke at Eschaton, I thought it would be obvious in the context of my snarky comment that I was not, in fact, being serious.
But thanks so much for the civics and spelling lesson. I can't tell you how enriched I feel now.
"His history" is that he's a nice guy who makes it a point to extend friendly gestures to political opponents, and has continued to do so in the face of repeated attempts to paint him as a booze-addled mass-murdering fascist dictator.
Really? That's not what his rep is here in Texas. Looks like you got bamboozled like many in the country. His rep here is as a dirty politico and death penalty happy light-weight.
And in any case, very few Americans would agree with you that George Bush's history suggests he'd mock the parent of an endangered US soldier by pretending to ask after the soldier's well-being.
Ask anyone who had to deal with Bush's law in Texas regarding whether or not hospitals should continue the care of the terminally ill. You probably railed about Terry Shaivo -- I'm guessing -- but you and Ann probably didn't even make a noise about the patients in Texas who have been sentenced to death because of Bush's anti-tort mania here in Texas.
If you have met the man and feel pleased to have done so, bully for you. Just know that the hand you shook has quite a bit of blood on it -- and I'm not just talking about those who have died and been injured in his happy war.
Live with it. Or you could join me in helping the entire Bush clan move to your state.
The President was making polite small talk and acknowledging that he knew a little bit about Webb's family and trying to indicate some concern for Senator Webb's son.
Unlike Ann, I don't believe that President Bush looked bad in anyway in this verbal altercation. Webb, who campaigned as someone who could appeal to both Republicans and Democrats, looks someone who is unhinged and quite prickly.
The Senate is known as a clubby place and one in which you must put aside your differences to get things done. Webb, seems to believe if one disagrees with him that gives him the right to act rudely towards them and ponder punching them.
Furthermore, his son enlisted voluntarily after the invasion of Iraq, a war which his father opposed. I would have greater sympathy if his son somehow enlisted to fight in Aghanistan after 9/11 and somehow the army pulled a bait and switch which in this case did not happen.
While it is perfectly natural for a father to want his son back as soon as possible, the President is not to blame for his son being in Iraq and if Senator Webb didn't want him being there he should have tried to talk him out of enlisting.
Furthermore, he Senator Webb could have just said he was fine and walked away. No, need to try and express his viewpoint on the war which the President no doubt knew already.
BTW, I also know how to spell 'the', but using 'teh' is a common, deliberate misspelling. I'm not joking.
I'm 1337, see?
No, need to try and express his viewpoint on the war which the President no doubt knew already.
Indeed, once somebody has stated their position, they should never express it ever again. That is the inherent nature of free speech and political discourse. Which is, of course, why Bush never gives the same damned speech to handpicked crowds over and over again about how we're staying in Iraq until we...uh, "win"?
Snow said (when accusing Bush of disrespecting soldiers): "Karla Faye Tucker might tend to disagree with that. Cindy Sheehan too."
FYI- good old Karla Faye Tucker was a convicted double murderer and was executed by the state of Texas when Bush was governor.
Since you used Tucker and Cindy Sheehan together to condemn Bush, what is their connection? Of if you were just attempting to slander both Bush and Cindy Sheehan at the same time, I was caught off guard, because I doubt that has ever been done before!
I'd say the exchange is pretty much in character for Webb. As I said before the election, he's an excitable boy, and prone to grand gestures.
BTW, Webb's son enlisted after the Iraq war started.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/061030fa_fact
Which has Jimmy Webb enlisting out of Penn State "two years" before the start of the 2006 campaign. So it's not so much a case of Bush sending his son to Iraq as his adult son Jimmy Webb choosing to go.
Furthermore, he Senator Webb could have just said he was fine and walked away.
Well, I doubt Secretary Webb feels his son is fine as his unit was under heavy fire a couple of days ago and lost several Marines.
Webb, seems to believe if one disagrees with him that gives him the right to act rudely towards them and ponder punching them.
"Go fuck yourself." I'm not saying that to you; that is what Vice President Cheney said to Senator Leahy after Senator Leahy said hello down on the Senate floor.
I'm sorry. Did I bring that up. Rude is okay if you are a Republican.
The Senate is a camera.
That's why people call it a bicameral Congress. Congress is the branch of government.
And I'm sorry about your bad case of teh stoopid. Thanks for playing.
The President was making polite small talk and acknowledging that he knew a little bit about Webb's family and trying to indicate some concern for Senator Webb's son.
Whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy . . . and moderate.
I can easily construct a senario where Bush is an idiot.
The truth is in what Bush has actually done. Based on his actions in the many years he has been in my state, I can, with 95% accuracy, assure you that Bush was not being sincere. I can go on to specualte, based on my 15 year knowledge of the man, that Bush was scared of Webb -- intimidated by him -- and simply said something very stupid -- not anticipating the response -- and arrogant enough to continue to be the ass that he always has been -- as his only response.
Paint that boy up pretty all you will -- he's still what he has always been -- a failure.
Snow said (when accusing Bush of disrespecting soldiers)
Well yeehaw! That just isn't true at all. What is wrong with y'all?
very few Americans would agree with you that George Bush's history suggests he'd mock the parent of an endangered US soldier
That was the comment I was responding to and you would know that had I actually quoted it in my comment. Which it appears that I did; therefore, you must have known that. So did I say anything about disrespecting soldiers or did I accuse Bush of having a history that would indeed suggest he is known for mocking for people. But thank you for altering the facts of what I say. I'm sure you know what I meant better than I.
aj lynch -- you must not know what Bush reportedly said about Karla Faye Tucker when her appeal was before him. Look it up. If you agree, then your sweetheart relationship with Bush is assured. If you find it coarse -- as many Christians did -- well then there's your camp.
I'm thinking you were trying to be snarky. If so, that's not working for you.
The combat boots.
There's even a picture.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/18/us/politics/18webb.html?ex=1316232000&en=94a3c0a5790fdf40&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
ernst -- you are quite the dino for the web. What was it you said?
As I said before the election, he's an excitable boy, and prone to grand gestures.
Sound rather Michael Savage-like. You get me, no?
As for the rest of you comment -- old old old argument about why Webb's son joined. It couldn't have been anything connected with his own choice. And FYI, Webb didn't declare to run against Felix until this year.
You may have connect-a-dot syndrome. I suggest a doctor.
Knemon, whose boots? His son's? Can you understand symbolism? I guess not.
(also, learning to do a link is easy -- to be taken seriously -- learn it.)
Lotta tension on this thread. I'll tell you, we are heading for a collision. People like "dave" and "ntodd" think the 2006 election is an instruction from the voters to George W. Bush to withdraw from Iraq quite soon -- beginning within weeks.
I don't think he's going to do that. And Congress will not force his hand.
I checked out ntodd's "Vichy Democrats" site. A Vichy Democrat is one who votes in support of the president on a given hot-button issue, e.g. Sam Alito, or "suspending habeas corpus." ntodd now says:
Now that we've won control of one branch, of course, identifying and gutting Vichys is more important than ever, so thanks be to anyone who helps us see clearly who to target.
Target for what? This is how the left plans on building on 2006 toward the presidency in 2008? By applying McCarthyite loyalty tests within the Democratic party? The left-wing of the McGovern era might have been pretty out there ideologically, but they weren't stupid enough to try to purge their own ranks of centrists and conservative Dems, and they certainly didn't fling around Nazi metaphors to describe members of their own party!
Brownshirts... I guess when you're wearing one you think everyone else is, too.
Michileins said:
"Look it up" when I asked Snow why he was conecting a convicted murderer (Tucker) with Cindy Sheehan.
FYFI Michilines- I was not asking you- my comment was directed to the doofus not from Texas, Snow. And he stil has not answered clearly.
after further reflection, i have to agree with ann here: both guys acted like asses.
however, i do like the cojones it shows from webb. smell the authenticity.
Only on this blog have I heard Webb quoted that way. I've been hearing all day:
Webb: "He would like to come home from Iraq Mr. President".
far less "smart ass" than the first answer cited here.
Mr. Bush did not reinterate "how's your boy?" in his response either.
I am sure Matt Drudge or Rush Limbaugh could come up with a more offensive exchange to show how Mr. Bush was/is beset by insolence at every turn. He and they live in an imaginary world filed with rudeness and disrespect. Why expect less.
That's the general impression of just about everyone who actually knows the man
Really? You asked everyone he knows?
"His history" is that he's a nice guy who makes it a point to extend friendly gestures to political opponents
Yeah. His history is also an arrogant ass who likes to belittle those he thinks aren't showing the appropriate deference - See, e.g., "are you going to ask that question with those shades on," "major league asshole,". Truly a great guy you'd want to have a beer with. Refreshing to find someone willing to buy into Bush's carefully cultivated image so shamelessly, especially at this late date.
I was not asking you- my comment was directed to the doofus not from Texas, Snow. And he stil has not answered clearly.
OK. Allow me to be perfectly clear. You are a liar. Clear enough?
In case you are confused. please refer to my response that appears immediately before the comment from michilines which prompted the above-quoted comment from you.
"Sound rather Michael Savage-like. You get me, no?"
I'm afraid not. Can you type in complete sentences and use them to express coherent thoughts?
Webb: "That's between me and my boy..."
OK...if Bush were as evil as some here seem to think, or if he were like Clinton (but I repeat myself):
Bush: "Will no one avenge me of this turbulent SOB?" (need scarcely be asked as the military is full of illiterate fascists who no doubt voted for Bush and if possible Allen)
{One news cycle later}
Marine commander: "PFC Webb, you're walking point today. And tomorrow. And the tomorrow after that..." (Bush would never have to give that order himself, any more than the king did.)
(Or if you like, assume Bush or his acolytes are only petty demons...
Marine commander: "PFC Webb, you've got KP today. And tomorrow. And the tomorrow after that...and by the way, there's dust on your uniform. Article 15!"
Marine buddies: "Sorry dude, we got in this great hooch from Bahrain but the camel spiders got your share. But to make it up to you, we'll throw ya a blanket party some night this week, how 'bout it?")
{3 weeks later - assuming PFC Webb retains mail privileges}
Webb: "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING WITH MY BOY?!?!?"
Bush: "Well, och and begorra! Isn't that between you and your boy? I thought it was none of my business.
"Say, didn't you want him to go home or something? I forget, you know I'm not very smart, everybody tells me so. I also forget, how are you voting on SR 113?"
Webb [is restrained by two Secret Service agents (who have been expecting his lunge). Okay, three or four if you like]: :-%!
Bush: "Hope they didn't rip your jacket or scuff those, uh, combat boots. (Hmm, are y'all in combat?) BTW, I understand there are some openings in EOD for Marines in the 2d Mar Div. Heard your boy had a scare in a tank the other day. Maybe he would like a change of pace? Perhaps a restful spell as traffic MP in Kidnap Alley?
"Oh yes, Ah remember, you said you wanted him home. But then maybe you never liked him anyway (it would make sense, the way you talk, heh), so I guess I'd like to know what he thinks.
"But then I don't know about him, about the Country Captain Chicken and Charms he keeps getting in his MREs, about his Sgt. Oorah, Lt. Gungho, Capt. Fascist, Maj. Warmonger, Col. Toady, Gen. Lackey, or about the troops X, Y, and Z who died in the M1A1 next to his the other day - he's your boy, I'm sure you know far better than I 'bout how they feel 'bout things...like your recent remarks, for instance.
"Nor could the FBI tell me about his girlfriend's check-kiting habit, his best buddy who got busted on that gay-bashing, or any of the other peccadilloes of his circle of acquaintances. The IRS didn't know whether that lil' error on his 1040 was a felony, either.
"So I'd really like to know, how's he doing? Hope he's got his body armor and so forth. Who knows, he might be home sooner than you think! (Or part of him, hyuk hyuk)"
Webb: :O
"But of course you're right, it's none of my business. I couldn't show him even a bit of favoritism, now could I? Can't do a durn thing for your boy.
"Well, thanks for stopping by the White House. Y'all can pick up your .44, and your backup piece, and your other backup piece (ain't those metal detectors somethin'?), oh and that long glass dagger you had up your sleeve (now THAT would be this new millimeter wave, haw haw) at the gate on your way out.
"Oh, and I sure do wonder if'n you'll vote Yes on my bill. But, that's between you and your boy, I mean the voters, I mean your caucus. Wouldn't it be nice if'n he could be there when I sign it into law? Have a nice day!"
Webb: 8-#
But of course Webb would never dream of Bush doing something like that; nor would he, because it wouldn't be right, so he can safely ignore the question that over a hundred thousand military families in their right minds would give an arm to be able to ask of the man who could, in fact, do something about it.
See:
At my bank, shortly after the 9/11 attacks, we had firmwide, worldwide safety drills. Then the CEO sent out a worldwide email asking us to report any safety issues directly to him.
I did: Send a polite email noting that in crowded conditions the lobby speakers of my building (as revealed in the recent drill) were inadequate for emergency communications. Receive top-priority response and action from the firm's chief of security on improving the sound system.
I did not: Send a rude and non-germane remark about how my job sucks and the bank should stop subprime lending 'cuz those brownskins can't be trusted with money, and follow it up with "the PA is none of your business, poopy pants! Now shaddap before I sock you one!"
See how that works? Webb, if he cared, could have actually done something for "his boy" (who of course is in fact his own man) instead of the 21st Century equivalent of the Emily Post "cut 'em dead."
Of course, if Webb's son dies from something that could have been prevented by a polite response instead of a rude one on the part of Webb...it will be Bush's fault.
PS None of this should be interpreted as wishing harm on PFC Webb, may he have a successful and healthy tour of duty. He's got enough problems at home. I'm sure Bush would never take any such steps.
Really? That's not what his rep is here in Texas.
Yes it is.
hdhouse: "Only on this blog have I heard Webb quoted that way. I've been hearing all day..."
My version is the one in the Washington Post. I said I doubt the verbatim nature of the quotes. The insinuation that I'm looking for the worst about Webb is ridiculous. This is the version we're seeing in the press. If blogs are paraphrasing to tone it down, you should be suspicious of them
The Senate is a camera.
That's why people call it a bicameral Congress. Congress is the branch of government.
Are you really this stupid? The English word 'chamber' comes from the Latin 'camera'. That's what it means.
And no matter in what chamber Webb is a member, he is a member of a co-equal branch of government called Congress.
The combat boots.
There's even a picture.
Thank you.
Can't imagine why a guy would wear his son's old combat boots.
"Can you understand symbolism? I guess not"
Whoah, where'd that come from?
"Can't imagine why a guy would wear his son's old combat boots."
Never said he shouldn't. Just pointing out that he did/does, since at least one commenter was doubting it.
I live in VA. I didn't vote for Webb, but I didn't vote Allen either, and I'm not all that displeased that Webb won.
Please wipe the spittle from your lip, ntodd.
I'm sorry you still think the Senate is a coequal 'branch' of government.
Never said he shouldn't. Just pointing out that he did/does, since at least one commenter was doubting it.
I was the one who "doubted" it. I wanted a citation from another commenter, who DID bring it up as though it meant Webb was opportunistic.
I'm sorry you still think the Senate is a coequal 'branch' of government.
Congress is co-equal. The Senate is a part of Congress. So a Senator need not show any special deference to the Executive, being a member of the Legislative branch.
I'm sorry you're so fucking obtuse.
So a Senator need not show any special deference to the Executive, being a member of the Legislative branch
Inasmuch as the three branches of government are supposed to be equal, the President is the equal of the Congress. A Senator, as merely one-fiftieth of one-half of the Legislative branch, is not the equal of the Executive. So even if common sense isn't enough to tell you that a President outranks a Senator, that fact should.
But in any case we are not talking about "special deferrence". It doesn't take "special deferrence" to not act like a dick when someone asks how your kids are. It just takes good manners and a less-than-gigantic ego, neither of which Webb has a reputation for possessing.
A Senator, as merely one-fiftieth of one-half of the Legislative branch, is not the equal of the Executive.A Senator, as merely one-fiftieth of one-half of the Legislative branch, is not the equal of the Executive.A Senator, as merely one-fiftieth of one-half of the Legislative branch, is not the equal of the Executive.
Oh, jeebus. Yeah, a mathematical argument about branches. That's rich.
Look, a Senator is one of 100 in their chamber, which does mean they don't wield a great deal of power individually. Yet a Senator can filibuster. And they are, like cells in a human body, part of an organ without which the Federal government cannot function.
There's a reason they are elected for 6 years, not 4. There's a reason that they are non-proportionally representative of their States. There's a reason that they must provide advice and consent for Bush's nominees. It's because collectively the Senate in particular, and Congress in general, is on par with the Executive branch.
There's no Constitutional math that says a President is somehow more deserving of respect than a Senator. And to suggest otherwise reveals just how into the fascist concept of the unitary executive you are. Disturbing.
It doesn't take "special deferrence" to not act like a dick when someone asks how your kids are.
He gave the answer he wanted to give, not what Bush wanted hear. Bush can suck on it.
Hey, tim:
If anyone is classless, it's Bush.
And how dare the Webb critics presume to speak for his son.
From what part of Iraq are YOU posting?????
An appointee of Saint Ronald of the Monster Deficit gave the Democrats the Senate on November 7.
He's not impressed with the Monkey Boy, who has disgraced the office of president and this country.
Well, cry me a river, rightards!
Bottom line: the voters of this country resoundingly rejected Bush and his vanity war on November 7.
Bush Co. and their quest to turn this country into a fascist dictatorship was stopped in its tracks.
So, as you brownshirts were so quick to tell us in 2004:
YOU LOST - DEAL WITH IT!
Rude? Christ, Bush wrote the book on rude:
WOODRUFF: President Bush showed a little testiness this week during one of the stops on his European tour. It happened in Paris when NBC report David Gregory was questioning Mr. Bush and French President Jacques Chirac.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GREGORY, NBC NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: But I wonder why it is you think there are such strong sentiments in Europe against you and against this administration, why particularly there's a view that you and your administration are trying to impose America's will on the rest of the world, particularly when it comes to the Middle East and where the war on terrorism goes next?
(through translator): And, Mr. President, would you maybe comment on that?
(CROSSTALK)
BUSH: Wait a minute. That's very good. The guy memorizes four words and he plays like he's intercontinental.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: I'm impressed.
Que bueno.
Now I'm literate in two languages.
Jackassery lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Yet a Senator can filibuster. And they are, like cells in a human body, part of an organ without which the Federal government cannot function.
They're only part of the organ. The President *is* the "organ"; he IS the executive power. A Senator is not the Legislative power. He doesn't even necessarily have any influence on it.
There's a reason why we have procedures in place to immediately replace the President the minute he dies or is killed, but leave the replacement of Senators up to whenever the governor of their state gets around to naming one -- because Senators, individually, are nowhere *near* as important as the President.
Look, if you want to argue that the Bush and Webb are equals, go right ahead. Webb and the sack boy at Pick n' Save are equals too -- all Americans are equals. But anyone who isn't a complete ignoramus realizes that Bush is vastly more powerful, important, and influential than Webb is, and in that sense very much outranks him.
Post a Comment