I'm not agreeing (or disagreeing) with this take. I just thought you should know:
Men — specifically white men — who see themselves as extremely masculine tend to support President Trump, while those who are weaker in their assessment of their masculinity — or in how they think about masculinity — are far less likely to support Trump. The gap between the two is just as significant if not more significant than the gender gap.
A similar, but more complex spread has emerged among women....
Are there men who think of themselves as "extremely masculine"? That made me think of this:
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68 comments:
“Extremely masculine” as a characterization tracks perfectly in the pejorative sense with “far right.” No one can just be masculine or conservative anymore.
Odd pairing of metaphors there - how can gaps lose ground to other gaps? Wouldn't that somehow make the losing gap bigger?
What’s left of MAGA/MIGA is the gym rat contingent, which is too unsophisticated to realize that you can’t win elections by making your appeal more selective. The movement used to be a lot larger, but Trump got a hard on for war, decided that he liked controlling the Epstein files, and purged from his administration all of the people who brought republicans like me to the movement.
The Democrat party is a crime Syndicate.
Clue number 529
The gender gap between cis and trans.
The Republican Party is dead because Trump surrounded himself in the second term with people like Mark Levin and Ben Shapiro, who hated his guts and were happy to destroy him politically. Meanwhile Trump, past his sell by date, is quoting Sally Fields, “They like me! They really like me!” It’s pathetic to watch.
Suuure it is. Suuure, it's losing ground.
I think it's more likely to be election season agitation-propaganda. These times require the careful application of exacting filters.
The polling process can only shift opinions so much, and there are many other arrows in the quiver.
Gender refers to sex-correlated attributes, thus the adoption of the cis and trans labels and gender gap under Critical Diversity Theory.
"..who are weaker in their assessment of their masculinity.."
like Talarico?
Not only do I eat carburetors for breakfast, but I snack on a few fuel injectors to tide me over until lunchtime. And of course I support the whole feminist agenda, as we very manly men do.
“The genius of a nation strikes but once in its history. It is its glory and its immortality in the annals of men. It is aristocratic, discriminating, radiant and selective, and abjures all that is mediocre, plebeian and mundane. It is regnant. It is spiritual. It is the flame emanating from the core of the Universe, which is the generation of life. It is the lightning which sets fire to the small spirits of men, and raises them above the field and the plow, the house and the hayfield, in a sudden revelation of grandeur. It is, above all, masculine, for the aristocracy of the soul is purely masculine and never feminine, which is concerned only with petty matters and insistent trivialities. It transcends the humbleness of daily living and stands even the least important of men upon Olympus for a brief hour. It is never democratic, for democracy is a destructive thing, conspired in the inferior minds of envious men. If that nation which would survive in glory would cultivate only the masculine principle its name in history will be written in gold and blaze through the centuries.”
- Zeno of Elea
"Are there men who think of themselves as 'extremely masculine'?'
Don't you read the comments?
I am full of toxic masculinity, as defined by the Left. And other things, so...
Shorter NYT: Men who act like women vote like women.
Note the men in the right described as “hyper” masculine, leaving little scraps of masculinity for left-leaning men to cling.
Is Edsall being a homophobe and telling us that Gays don't like Trump?
A similar, but more complex spread has emerged among women.
So women who think themselves as "extremely masculine" vote Republican?
Well thats an interesting take.
Black men vote Democrat 80-20 and think themselves extremely masculine. Race/ethnicity are more important then Gender. If we're just talking about white non-jews, make it clear.
It's Thomas Edsall, fer chrissake.
That was a silly and confusing article. It didn't seem to have made any coherent conclusions.I don't think much about my femininity or masculinity personality traits. Why bother. I just do what I do. Think what I think. Like Popeye: I yam what I yam
Out of curiosity I took the personalty test linked in the article and i am 5.2 masculine and 3.6 feminine. So if we are working with a total of 10...what is the other 2.2? I think I must be part cat, since I don't really care. If it matters I am also on the Meyers/Briggs personalty test a strong INTJ-A (rare they say for a female).
How I feel about Trump has nothing to do with feminine or masculine. It has to do with is he effective and accomplishing what needs to be done and what I want to be done. I want results.
"The traditional gender gap is losing ground as a key factor in politics to intragender gaps that have emerged among Republican and Democratic voters along the fault lines of masculinity and femininity."
Well, ground is often lost as gaps emerge along fault lines. Nothing new here.
Fundamentally, masculinity is about saying "no". Saying "yes" doesn't have the oompf of the unequivocal "no".
"No" is harsh. "No" demands a response and the ability to back it up. Even if it means a fight. Even if it means death. Preferably theirs. Femininity is also the right to say no, but less so. The feminine "no" comes with - or without - a fight. Death often optional. Every society has tried to legislate this but it doesn't work because legislation that empowers "no" is where enforcement based on violence begins.
Women can say "Eff You!". Men say "Eff You MAKE ME." No society tribe has ever formed on the basis of just "Eff you!". Thousands have formed on the basis of "Eff You MAKE ME." Get enough FYMMs and you've got an army. Get an army of FYMM diehards and the one's trying to "make you" have a problem. Get a diehard army of FYMMs that understand how to organize and they've REALLY got a problem.
Thusly, your civilization has begun...
"Extreme masculinity" is a term like "far right," only useful in distinguishing what the person is NOT. Masculine men are NOT the wimpy pale DSA type, not the effeminate cosplayers like Pete Buttigieg, and NOT the weird jazz-hand wielding freaks like Tim Walz.
But because those kind of guys, guys with unrecognizable attributes of masculinity, exist and dominate the Democrat party they need a label, a word, a title they can stick on the OTHER normal kind of guy. So now a normal American male who likes to watch Monday Night Football after work is called extremely masculine.
Chivalry was much more than holding a door open for the ladies. We weren't consulted when feminists declared chivalry dead. Without the suite of responsibilities on both sexes that made up chivalry, feminists must create a new way to categorize men. Thus this article.
NY Times: We are signaling our allegiance to a set of ideas with ever changing loyalties and moral causes, usually on the oppressor/oppressed axis.
These ideas, as they become entrenched within institutions, are pursued with righteous belief and authority. These ideas do not necessarily require nor respect speech nor consent of the governed. They often act as a version of Christianity and inverted moral thinking with resentment and change first found at their core.
All will not ‘simply work out’ if you sit idly by and allow them to become ascendant.
It's the class divide. White collar college grads and especially people with more than one college degree don't like Trump as much as blue collar people without college degrees. Turning that into talk about "extreme masculinity" is rubbish. Our Men's Studies professors would tear sexist Edsall apart -- if we had any Men's Studies professors.
And of course, the same class "gap" exists among women, as does another "gap" between single and married women.
Two quick notes:
Justabill nailed it with brevity right off. I wish I'd read that before creating a wordy version of it.
Jaq, you might not be aware that Trump is the only president who's overall approval rating has stayed between 45-49% his entire term. CNN reported that he's currently at the high end, 49% approval. You might be surprised at how wrong you are in November. We will keep the House and the Senate.
"Hypermasculine" is needlessly pejorative. Instead, define a spectrum from "thoroughly feminine" to "thoroughly masculine"; i.e., at each end of the spectrum, one would have no opposite characteristics whatsoever. Nothing hyper about that.
It is likely that many gay men (and nearly all the ones I have known) embody feminine characteristics to at least some extent, and likely vote progressive.
Isn't this fairly easily explained by the fact that Trump is so stridently opposed to DEI, trans ideology, useless college degrees being issued en masse to an increasingly female student cohort, and the government's shoveling out tens of billions of dollars to NGOs to provide a lifetime of cushy employment to those same over-credentialed dames? OF COURSE Trump is drawing outsize support from "masculine," but it's his policies that are driving this phenomenon.
"I don't think much about my femininity or masculinity personality traits. "
I doubt very many people do.
There's actual hyper masculine and there's play pretend hyper masculine. The play pretend form is toxic while the actual can be lethal and highly protective.
“ Are there men who think of themselves as "extremely masculine"?”
Those who do, aren’t.
Democrats are forever searching for a man of theirs who comes off as a man. It simply should not be this hard and should not require articles every two years explaining it.
And...it's always a good time for The Lumberjack Song.
Off the topic, but noteworthy. On Wisconsin. Nobel Winning Professor.
Nobel Winning Professor. That should be it.
I consider myself very masculine, and I think people around me do too. That's what I'm told. I know of many men I consider more masculine than me based on a superior range of abilities and greater discipline, even a few who are gay, which is still hard to reconcile, even after many years. Most are Trump supporters, but probably only 60/40. I think I'm masculine because of my chosen role in my world, my abilities, values, interests, and choices. Also, I don't cry when I make mistakes or get in trouble.
You ever watch those dash cam videos? The women cry almost every time, even the violent ones. Never saw it work.
"Those who do, aren’t."
Do they consider themselves feminine or trans?
A hangover from the man's man's versus guy's guy discussion?
Extremely masculine reminds me of the humorous comment from yesterday: a goy’s goy. They eat eggs and bacon and sausage for breakfast and bacon cheeseburgers and fries for lunch. And many beers. For dinner, steak and potato and whiskey and cigars. Extremely masculine.
There are a lot more gay conservative men than most people realize, many very prominent ones. The ones I know personally who are gay, Republican, and masculine do not support Trump...yet.
It seems that the percentage of gay Trump-supporting pundits is well above the percentage of gays in the general public.
Well, I'm not the world's most masculine man
But I know what I am and I'm glad I'm a man
Dust Bunny Queen said...
I don't think much about my femininity or masculinity personality traits. Why bother.
I've noticed a divide between people who see their gender as something that just is, and those who see their gender as something to be performed.
The new Nobel laureate professor has "the world’s largest telescope". That's masculine.
I'm uneasy about adding something, an angle, that seems missing from this discussion. Uneasy because maybe this take is missing because it don't belong here?
Some right wingers have an online pejorative they like to call "weaker" men. It begins with the letter C. While that pejorative's origin had more to do with a husband consenting to his wife having sex outside their marriage (however that could be dressed up as) according to ai, the C word has "evolved significantly to mean something entirely unrelated to sex". ai Continues : "In these contexts, the term functions as a metaphor for "giving away your power" or "watching others take advantage of what is yours."
All that to say, the gap may not be new. Thank you for calling attention to this matter.
"I've noticed a divide between people who see their gender as something that just is, and those who see their gender as something to be performed."
Put me in the performing category. I could choose to be more feminine, and I was when I was younger, but I have grown to see masculinity as a duty, a role I should play for those around me. A duty to lead, sacrifice, protect, provide, and exemplify, especially in these times when it is so lacking and misrepresented. It's not some great ability; it's a job and a challenge that is both a privilege and sometimes a drag. Real femininity is much the same in a different way, and also neglected and underappreciated today.
"watching others take advantage of what is yours." relating to immigration policy for example.
Men who actually think of themselves as "extremely masculine" are probably assholes.
I combine the wisdom of Martin Luther and Popeye: I yam what I yam; I can do no other.
"Men who actually think of themselves as "extremely masculine" are probably assholes."
Rejecting the thought obviously doesn't protect you.
I've noticed a divide between people who see their gender as something that just is, and those who see their gender as something to be performed.
I agree with what you are saying but let me clarify and strengthen your point.
I've noticed a divide between people who see their sex as something that just is, and those who see their gender as something to be performed.
sex = real
gender = performance
There are an infinite number of genders, because gender is performance and role-playing.
If you are making a baby, there are two sexes, men and women, and you need both of them.
There are two genders: cis and trans. #LOL
Maybe, baby. Baby, maybe? Not
The Kamala Harris man ad is horrible. It is so sexually insecure. The more these actors repeat "I'm a man," the more I doubt it.
The Lumberjack song is funny because manhood is falling apart.
The Harris man ad is the opposite. It's like they're trying to create a Man Voter For Frankenstein in a feminist science lab. It's cringe, as the kids say. It reminds me of Mel Brooks.
If you're blue
and you don't know
where to go to
why don't you go to
where fashion sits
puttin' on the Ritz
"AROROROOOO!"
oops, here is Mel Brooks.
RSM, your FYMM soliloquy is better than the dicks/pussies/assholes speech from Team America! CC, JSM
Ref the Lumberjack song, as long as we're bringing in other Anglosphere countries, MAGA men are more like Red Green. CC, JSM
¿Quién es el más macho?
*****
I've noticed a divide between people who see their gender as something that just is, and those who see their gender as something to be performed.
*****
As they say, gender is NOT an identity. Sex is an identity. Gender is a performance.
So I think your divide is just restating the difference between sex and gender.
I see St. Croix beat me to that understanding.
Another way of saying is it that sneaky fuckers lean Dem.
I don't think of myself as extremely masculine until I started to encounter men who'se go to mating strategy was to apologize for their (and my) balls.
Autocorrect thinks that whose is who's.
So real men and real women support Trump and the Republicans, and weak males and hateful shrews support the Dems / hate Trump?
Sure, I'll believe that
On X / Twitter people are pointing out that the Left has lost 8 straight elections in South America now that USAID has been defunded.
Early voting Twitter is pointing out the Dem early voting is way down from 2022.
I'm now wondering just how much of the $$$ spent on USAID ended up funding the Left's vote in America
“ Black men vote Democrat 80-20 and think themselves extremely masculine.”
30% of Black men under 45 voted for Trump.
We are not “hypermasculine,” as the Canadian academics put it. We are just masculine, normal men. There is not a seven-point continuum. You are either male or female, and if you think you are something else, well, you’re still either male or female, with a mental illness. Normal people like us have known this all our lives, and know that it is immutable.
@JSM, you're too kind, and my first name is Richard. I'm a Dick. I'll be here all week.
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