"... from academia to Hollywood that remains critical of more conservative lifestyles. While the country rightfully spent recent decades boosting the educational and economic prospects of women, it deindustrialized, axing and outsourcing jobs in heavily male industries, and leaving men and women increasingly out of step with one another. Efforts to make the workforce and education system more friendly for girls have led to emphasizing literacy and verbal skills, a hemorrhaging of male teachers, and the decline of shop classes and vocational programs.... The trend line of women reporting a declining desire to marry may indeed reflect pessimism about their prospects rather than the institution itself — and not for ideological reasons so much as practical ones...."
Writes Emily Jashinsky, in "A marriage gap is growing — and it could spell disaster/The 'war on boys' could be resulting in some women shunning marriage" (WaPo).
It seems that both men and women regard the members of the opposite sex as unworthy of marriage.
Posts
93 comments:
No fault divorce made marriage an economic loser for men.
So democrats have now destroyed marriage and also put us on a path to self destruct and not replicate ourselves. Way to go.
Regarding the AWFLs "shunning" marriage. That's pretty easy to do if no men want to marry you. And it's a problem that will take care of itself as their genes get eliminated from the gene pool.
I would add that the corollary of this phenomenon is that those women who believe in traditional marriage and generally like men also seem to love children and having more than their fair share of them. Problem solved.
planetgeo said...
..a problem that will take care of itself as their genes get eliminated from the gene pool..
yes! once the ONLY people in the world are Muslims, no one will care what white people used to be
What did they think was going to happen? Left to guess I imagine something like a happy ending of a Nora Ephron movie where high value men end up with late middle aged career women.
It’s been my experience that Evangelical Christian churches have more eligible women than men in attendance. Not sure why that is. Maybe women are more receptive to the gospel message than. Or men are just too stubborn.
And another plus - the women are less likely to have head-to-toe tattoos, purple hair and nose rings.
the corollary of this phenomenon is that those women who believe in traditional marriage and generally like men also seem to love children and having more than their fair share of them
Yah, the twenty somethings in my orbit are doing just fine in that department thank you…
1. Industrialization and modern healthcare resulted in a much larger percentage of...unhealthy...people surviving to adulthood.
2. Society used to feed its non-breeders to military combat deaths or ship them off to monasterys and convents.
3. Social safety net programs deincentivize male economic achievement and family ties. See the correlation between single black motherhood and LBJ's Great Society.
4. Movies, video games, social media, and p0rn lead to unrealistic expectations for relationships (i.e., men want perfect 10 models and Stepford Wives; women want perfect men with Elon Musk's money).
You know who are collateral damage in the war on working class men? It's working class women. Desiring children, they have relatively short unstable relationships with men who've been sidelined by an economy that's discarded them and a culture which states they are a problem to be emasculated.
The result are women scraping by trying to raise kids while cycling thru man after man. This is the reality of the world we created.
gilbar, I'm not sure how to break this news to you, but most Muslims, genetically, are in fact "white".
They think of themselves as brown
“It seems that both men and women regard the members of the opposite sex as unworthy of marriage.”
A stunning bit from Althouse. This is the inevitable result of feminism.
This writer discovers something available on YouTube for years. Try "hoe_math" on marriage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDhde8MSwBA&t=8s
Men's educational and career opportunities significantly diminished - women hardest hit. Predictable.
hmm?
so i typed in "Muslim Demographics", and google returned this:
"Muslims make up about 26% of the global population, with an estimated 2 billion adherents worldwide. The largest populations are found in Indonesia, Pakistan, and India, with significant communities in the Middle East, Africa, and parts of Europe and Asia."
so, YEAH, planetgeo.. MOST pakis think of themselves as white.
tell me another one
And yet fewer children are able to read st grade level, there has to be a correlation
I've seen noted a couple of times that, somewhat counterintuitively, the number of children a married woman has and the number of children an unmarried woman hasn't changed much over the decades. The fertility crisis is in some respects due to the overall decrease in marriage rates.
It started with the war on babies, progressed with the war on boys, now a war on girls, a Diverse conflict equitable and inclusive, including labor and environmental arbitrage, redistributive change schemes, progressive prices, etc. Wicked solutions are the Choice, choice in lieu of reconciliation by mature actors.
A civilization, a society, a culture in transition.
I married at 41. I was stupid in my earlier years. Marriage is not perfect, and takes work, but it is better than being single.
... there will be collateral damage, millions, billions in human rites and green corruption.
Enigma at 649 - Bravo!
The GenZ kids are more verclamped about having to pay half of their monthly salary for a room in a shitbox apartment they share with roommates.
gilbar, what pakis "think" of themselves doesn't change what they are genetically. I thought we've gone beyond that whole thing where if a man thinks of himself as a woman, etc.
Growing or progressing? Evolving, as boys and girls mature, and reconcile their dreams, hopes, and expectations with the reality of two imperfect parties equal in rights and complementary in Nature.
Perhaps with our society's obsession with youth fewer of that generation think about who is going to take care of them when they grow old? Unless you burn those bridges, no state agency or social worker will care for your elderly self more than family.
As with our Posterity, commitment in unions, perhaps marriage, are the hardest jobs you will ever love.
The insufferable barrister who runs london into the ground
Thinks of himself as white
As I type this a time traveler is sneaking up on Hillary's cradle.
A big part of the problem is the toxic environment cultivated by what started as PC in the 90's and evolved into woke more recently. Men and women are being encouraged to disrespect and even despise the other sex, seeing the scrum of compromise required to build a solid life together as hostile competition. People are being conditioned--whether by Andrew Tate or any of the modern woke feminists (I couldn't come up with a single well-known person)--to see the other sex as a problem to be controlled and/or overcome.
That failure of emotional and intellectual generosity, not the job market, is at the heart of the problem.
"This is the inevitable result of feminism."
Exactly. Give women options, and dependence on a man doesn't look so appealing. Women don't want to stay home all day raising kids any more than men do.
Doesnt think of himself as white
Assuming US politics approaches rationality (ha ha), there is an easy legislative fix. Well, it will make a fair number of men happier at least, which should count as an improvement.
Create an open immigration category called "ladies night", where immediate entry is allowed for good looking young women from wherever. There should be a qualified immigration officer at every consulate to make this on the spot judgment at the interview.
So theres the mens problem somewhat handled, thanks to the wisdom of the Federal government. The women are a much harder case.
"It seems that both men and women regard the members of the opposite sex as unworthy of marriage. "
I think there is a little bit of Sour Grapes going on here for both men and women. For a lot of women the men they want to marry do not want to marry them and those women get stuck in 'situationships.' For a lot of men the women they are interested in don't even want to date them. However regarding this coping mechanism I think there is a bit more of it from the women than the men. It is a more feminine instinct to seek out and provide this kind of emotional palliative care. There was a recent article that wondered if having a boyfriend was embarrassing now. I think this kind of article is aimed at single women to help them feel better about being single.
For whatever it is worth I think this decline in marriage is happening in other countries as well. I believe China's CCP has decided the fault lies with women having unrealistic expectations and has put out statements saying things like, "women expect that a CEO will suddenly become interested in them." I think the CCP has blamed media for this and is putting pressure on soap opera and romantic dramedy producers to set more 'realistic' expectations.
Rampant obesity is also probably an issue. Generally, even the obese do not want to marry other obese people.
Women are disillusioned by social progress to keep them affordable, available, reusable, and taxable. Men are disillusioned by social progress with "benefits" and collateral damage. Neither sex is surprised, should be surprised, by the investment and reconciliation required by marriage and our Posterity. Fidelity has a long lifetime in union. #HateLovesAbortion
"....Boys’ plans for marriage have barely budged since 1993, dropping to 74 percent from 76 percent. Girls, however, swung away from marriage by double digits. In the early 1990s, 83 percent of girls wanted to get married. In 2023, 61 percent said the same....Today, around 40 percent identify as liberal, compared with just 19 percent who say they’re conservative....Looking out on a pool of less marriageable men, young women are turning their backs ."
I'm sure the journalist thinks she's reporting this even-handedly, but..... has she considered the idea that she, too, might be part of the problem?
Brings to mind the old maxim, paraphrasing: "A man marries a woman thinking she won't change, and she always does..... A woman marries a man thinking she can change him, but he never does..."
Marriage is an unattractive option for a lot of young men who witnessed their fathers, older brothers, or friends get taken to the cleaners in divorce. Their opinion is that any benefits of marriage are far outweighed by the risks. Divorce courts are widely viewed, with justification, as wildly biased to favor women.
@Humperdink: "It’s been my experience that Evangelical Christian churches have more eligible women than men in attendance. "
Dude, those are the pros you're seeing. They're looking for their next husband.
Boys, stay away from "benefits" and artificial inducement. Girls, stay away from clinics and liberal leisure. You'll both have a gay and productive time in a natural and equitable state as you strive together.
Men fuck when they can
And marry who they want
Women fuck who they want
And marry who they can
I read The War Against Boys in 2000 before I had a son. A quarter century later, society is beginning to think about maybe perhaps addressing the problem, at some point.
Life is an exercise in risk management. You can't bake without the heat. How can you bake without the heat? Diversitists! Leave them kids alone.
The historical solution to the lack of socially suitable marriage partners was to marry one of your cousins.
@Left Bank of the Charles: The historical solution for lack of marriage partenrs was for ~~most~~ women to becomes concubines or join a harem. By choice or by force.
See China, old Europe, the Middle East, African tribal kings, Elon Musk's brood mares, etc.
To think, when I was a teenager, the social critics were appalled about people marrying and having children too young. So many children!
Yet I think the most trustworthy male is was the boy you met in college if not in high school. After that, it's the Wild West.
I've been making this case for years in various discussions with friends and online in various social media. Christina Hoff Sommers book crystalized for me what I had been reading in multiple articles over a few years leading up to its initial publication. The issues were leaking out and being pointed out early on, but by too few, and being paid attention to by almost no one.
And now we're at the point where the schism between the direction of young women and the direction of young men is so vast, I'm not sure we have the time to get it back. We're on a path to literally run out of people. We have placed a higher value on staying single and pursuing career advancement over (both men and women) slowing the career a bit to take the time to marry, have children, create a family- you know, something that is real and has staying power.
I have known too many middle aged professional women who are single with no children and are miserable. Sure, it's my anecdotal examples, but they've been numerous, including within my own family. I see the emptiness as they find themselves now at a place with nothing more to strive for than...what? Another title at work? The bars are no longer so much fun to go out to every night and after work...what? Go home to an empty condo overlooking a busy city?
Somewhere, for some reason, we sold our young women and young men a bill of goods about life. That bill is coming due now. We'll see if the youngest of the working gens can figure this out and clean it up. But they've got their work cut out for them.
planetgeo seems to have detached himself (itself?) from reality.
GREAT JOB geo! keep it up!
Howard said...
The GenZ kids are more verclamped about having to pay half of their monthly salary for a room in a shitbox apartment they share with roommates.
Housing prices are the key to winning the next election.
The first candidate to tell Blackrock they cannot own single family homes and they have 1 year to sell them all wins in a landslide.
"Looking out on a pool of less marriageable men...
Are there fewer "marriageable" men, or are the men in the pool each "less marriageable" along a spectrum? Either way, a case of "shrinkage."
"I was in the pool!"
Pesky i's.
"...schism between the direction of young women and the direction of young men is so vast, I'm not sure we have the time to get it back."
In the USA and some other countries, yes. For a generation or more, American sex and romance is turbo-screwed. Many of us saw this coming and boarded lifeboats to other countries and cultures where gender roles weren't flipped 180 because a cathode ray tube told them to.
Tom T. said...
"This is the inevitable result of feminism."
Exactly. Give women options, and dependence on a man doesn't look so appealing. Women don't want to stay home all day raising kids any more than men do.
If women had to do real jobs they would rather stay home and raise kids.
There is a small number of women that do real jobs and add value to society.
Most women do bullshit jobs where they doom scroll all day and complain to HR about their boss after she fucks him and doesn't marry her.
If they had to lay bricks or install fiber cable or run an oil rig instead they would be staying home to raise kids.
It made for a better society back when marriage was more of a business transaction between two people and two families, and before all the "soulmate, true love forever," BS crept in. Maybe, after the coming Great Cull thins our population out, can we again realize that a stable society is far more valuable than today’s wrongheaded notions about personal fulfillment. Only then can we regain some of what has been lost. Our worst problem now is our expectation that comfort and personal fulfillment are the be-all and end-all of life. It’s not.
Have an almost 25 year old son. Leans conservative. Couldn’t tell you the last time he mentioned being on a date. Maybe a pickleball meet up a year ago. Relocated for a job recently. His new apartment complex seems to have many twenty something women out walking their dogs in the early morning. Encouraging him to join a church. Will see how that goes.
"Deep State Reformer said...
It made for a better society back when marriage was more of a business transaction between two people and two families, and before all the "soulmate, true love forever," BS crept in."
What damage hath Jane Austen wrought?
My fav part of the White left female revolution is all their toxic lies.
"Marriageable" does a lot of work that sentence.
"The historical solution to the lack of socially suitable marriage partners was to marry one of your cousins."
Then for two hundred years we had a high trust society where cousin marriage was not really a resort, and then we destroyed it by importing millions of people who lived in an entirely different moral universe to tear that down.
Easy, peasy, go back two hundred years!
Men pursue careers to make themselves attractive to women and, generally, these days, women pursue careers to avoid or to be able to break off an alliance with unsuitable men.
The woman isn't trapped in the marriage as before, so the man can't control the arrangements as well. And she has her own money so his mode of exchange doesn't buy what it used to.
Telling men to do better or women to lower their standards doesn't work very well.
And that's not even factoring children.
Thinking about it, the Elon Musk model has a lot to recommend it. Musk gets a never-ending string of attractive women (to the extent he wants them) and genetic success corresponding to his great achievements. The women get the attention (temporary though it is) of a great man, some of his assets, and his children, which is THEIR genetic success.
There doesnt seem to be much domesticity in this, but that may not be what Elon wants.
European monarchs sometimes used to operate on this model. Augustus ("the Strong") of Saxony was very Elon-like. Others had a desire for some degree domesticity, Louis XIV and Louis XV doted on their acknowledged mistresses (though XIV changed them out periodically), while maintaining a string of less-attached paramours, who usually would go on to marry men of lower status. These models allow the very ambitious females to share the most dominant males, at least for a while, without succumbing to servitude in a harem.
For all the complaints I see here about women’s attitudes toward men, this comment section is an almost unbroken stream of contempt aimed at women as a group. I honestly can’t recall the last time I saw a woman in these threads broadly trashing “men” the way men here routinely trash “women.”
Maybe - just maybe - that constant negativity is one of the reasons some women end up with a pretty jaded view of men in the first place.
Even the guys here who don’t openly trash women often write as if they’re talking about a slower child when they reference women
"it deindustrialized, axing and outsourcing jobs in heavily male industries, and leaving men and women increasingly out of step with one another. "
Yeah, it almost sounds like if we gave a shit about men, that tariffs would be a solution. But women don't benefit from them so that's out.
"And she has her own money so his mode of exchange doesn't buy what it used to."
It was nice of men to build a world in which women could live comfortably and have all of the work women used to do done by machines, and now that men have lost access to women, we continue to be nice by paying the taxes to the government, which then takes credit for it while showering benefits on women.
Nice guys finish last.
There is a lot of "consciousness raising" going on among men.
I understand that the Democrats have a solution, jobs for men as soldiers in resource wars around the world.
If you're operating a domestic bordello, then both sexes are doing it wrong.
"women aren't trapped in a marriage"
Women control access to sex.
Men control access to commitment.
How's not being trapped in marriage working out?
Ann Althouse said...
Men pursue careers to make themselves attractive to women and, generally, these days, women pursue careers to avoid or to be able to break off an alliance with unsuitable men.
The woman isn't trapped in the marriage as before, so the man can't control the arrangements as well. And she has her own money so his mode of exchange doesn't buy what it used to.
Telling men to do better or women to lower their standards doesn't work very well.
And that's not even factoring children.
Women before feminism: Get married to man. Have kids. Raise them.
Women after feminism: Get bullshit education/HR job. Fuck the boss. He moves on to the next intern. Go on tinder a sort for 6 foot tall for 15 years. Live your best life. Turn 35. Decide to settle down and find the "right" guy. Realize they don't want a fat run through harridan with baggage. Buys cats.
How is that working out for women? What percentage of women are on SSRIs now? Are more or less women happy now compared to 50 years ago?
Current laws for divorce, and feminist rhetoric, make marriage a losing proposition for most men. I don't blame them.
The difference between the olden days and now is that we now have effective birth control that makes having children a deliberate act rather than a byproduct of sex.
Eva Marie said...
For all the complaints I see here about women’s attitudes toward men, this comment section is an almost unbroken stream of contempt aimed at women as a group. I honestly can’t recall the last time I saw a woman in these threads broadly trashing “men” the way men here routinely trash “women.”
Maybe - just maybe - that constant negativity is one of the reasons some women end up with a pretty jaded view of men in the first place.
Even the guys here who don’t openly trash women often write as if they’re talking about a slower child when they reference women
We don't trash all women. Just the ones who are on only fans and tinder.
Notice that when men "trash" women they talk about specific actions and behaviors of women.
Women on the other hand talk about men without actually citing behaviors.
It seems that both men and women regard the members of the opposite sex as unworthy of marriage.
--------------
Imagine that. You all spent so much time telling us the sexes are like two different species that neither gender wants to just "assume the role" and buckle down to perform the stereotyped action expected of their sex...
Oh, but they must each complement each other, you say. You're born into a body with a role to play in life... Don't try to get out of it now, boys and girls!
Lol. Imagine that not going over well in the 21st century, ann. Not everybody wants to drop back into your Daddy and mommy days of the 1950s, like you were raised... (nevermind the "single mom" days of the 1980s and beyond.)
Do you ever accept there are consequences for actions, and the current society of "grown up" boys and girls today are the generations your generation raised? Maybe, just maybe... these kids see marriage, like religion, is "disposable" like everything else in our commodified day. Including innocent human life...
(Hint? You're not going to find the answers from ezra klein and gavin newsom. They're not the future, not the hungry ones coming up. They're the spoiled boys hanging on to the coattails of past ways... they remind people of their sons/grandsons. lol. Give em another few millions, surely they'll come up with solutions to fixing American society in time? lol)
@Eva Marie: I saw a woman in these threads broadly trashing “men” the way men here routinely trash “women.”
The basic issue is that a woman reaches her mating economic peak just after puberty, and then loses mating value year after year after year until menopause. Beautiful women are born winners, but their young ages provide zero awareness of proportionality (e.g., they are routinely perceived as b*tchy, cruel, or stuck up).
In contrast, young men are poor, weaker than adult men, and utterly ignored by women. You must pay to play. Peak male power happens between age 40 and 60. Outside of the most handsome, men always must $pend and take risks to get female attention let alone fund a family. They routinely deal with years of isolation and rejection before their status is high enough. They remember it and gripe (here).
Blame evolution and nature for the economics of sexual reproduction in a species that requires years and years of childcare.
Humperdink: "It’s been my experience that Evangelical Christian churches have more eligible women than men in attendance. "
Aggie responded: “Dude, those are the pros you're seeing. They're looking for their next husband.”
For some maybe, but not on the whole. They are coming to church for the same reason I did. Seeing the emptiness in this world I realized there has to be something else. And there is. Eternal life through Jesus. Give it a shot. It won’t hurt you.
Christopher B said, "How's not being trapped in marriage working out?"
If the stats are believable, women are controlling access to sex so well large cohorts are having less of it then ever before.
Eva Marie said...
The difference between the olden days and now is that we now have effective birth control that makes having children a deliberate act rather than a byproduct of sex.
And that was the trap.
When men and women have sex one of the things that happens is Oxytocin is released in your brain. This is the neurotransmitter that facilitates memory and emotional bonding.
In men things don't change much as you switch partners.
But in women having more than one sexual partner changes brain chemistry. They adapted to an environment they couldn't control. Women can live in a pair bonding mating pattern or a dominant male harem mating pattern.
Women with higher body counts are much much more likely to cheat in a marriage.
Who just wrote this?
“Women after feminism: Get bullshit education/HR job. Fuck the boss. He moves on to the next intern. Go on tinder a sort for 6 foot tall for 15 years. Live your best life. Turn 35. Decide to settle down and find the "right" guy. Realize they don't want a fat run through harridan with baggage. Buys cats”.
That is a generality about women.
Howabout this:
“
The basic issue is that a woman reaches her mating economic peak just after puberty, and then loses mating value year after year after year until menopause. Beautiful women are born winners, but their young ages provide zero awareness of proportionality (e.g., they are routinely perceived as b*tchy, cruel, or stuck up).”
You guys really need to read your own comments.
RideSpaceMountain said...
Christopher B said, "How's not being trapped in marriage working out?"
If the stats are believable, women are controlling access to sex so well large cohorts are having less of it then ever before.
About 20% of men and 80% or women are having a lot of sex.
Eva Marie said...
You guys really need to read your own comments.
You should point out how we are wrong.
Granted I've seen and heard of a lot of "mating problems" - bad divorces, sad women in their 40s, frustrated young men, etc. However I can't say its ever affected me personally. Maybe I've been lucky.
"Even the guys here who don’t openly trash women often write as if they’re talking about a slower child when they reference women"
The 'Modern Woman / Slow Child' Venn Diagram is doing all it can.
I am Laslo.
"You guys really need to read your own comments"
That IS very much a female style of complaint.
Men would just call each other assholes, and explain why. Sometimes in great detail, with citations, diagrams, spreadsheets and formulas.
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