I'm reading this in the Harvard Crimson: "As Summers Sought Clandestine Relationship With Woman He Called a Mentee, Epstein Was His 'Wing Man'/When former Harvard President Lawrence H. Summers was pursuing a romantic relationship with a woman he described as a mentee, he turned to a longtime associate for guidance: convicted sex offender Jeffrey E. Epstein."
1. "Peril" was the code name for the woman the 2 men were discussing. If the Crimson has correctly identified her, she was already a tenured professor — at the London School of Economics.
2. Stop and think about what Summers was saying when he wrote that his "best shot" for her to find him "invaluable and interesting" and to realize that "she can’t have it without romance / sex." I would interpret that to mean that he wanted sex (and romance) from her that he knew she didn't want. He just hoped she'd give it in order to receive professional and social benefits from him. No one should want sex that the other person does not want. It doesn't matter that you conceive of it as an even exchange because you are giving other benefits.
3. Imagine asking Jeffrey Epstein for advice on how to handle it!
4. I wonder how "peril" feels about all this — then and now.
Posts
99 comments:
Transactional sex is the world's oldest profession.
"No one should want sex that the other person does not want. It doesn't matter that you conceive of it as an even exchange because you are giving other benefits."
Caller: Sex isn't a priority anymore.
Dr. Laura: Is your marriage a priority to you?
"No one should want sex that the other person does not want."
Truer words have yet to be written.
Earlier I may have referred to him as "Bill Summers" (and I know not why) but it is nice to see him finally get the publicity he deserves. More like this is needed. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, right!
Larry torched his professional credibility when he wrote the NYT long piece on how great Hillary’s economic plan of price controls and a centrally planned economy. This burns up any other credibility he had left…
So, it's now okay to throw Summers overboard. One more layer of the onion peeled back.
I disagree with this blanket statement:
No one should want sex that the other person does not want. It doesn't matter that you conceive of it as an even exchange because you are giving other benefits.
The reasons why one partner or the other "does not want" can vary so extravagantly, from a momentary impediment ("I haven't kicked my other lover out yet" or "damn if it wasn't that time...") to simple bad timing ("crap I have to go to Mom's in an hour") to a true unalterable objection ("actually I loathe you but cannot say so for professional reasons").
So contrary to the host's take, I believe a "no" is absolutely not always and every time an everlasting "no." And I have a lifetime of experience to prove it as both the pursued and the pursuer.
Perhaps it was simply worded poorly. Can an Althouse "no" actually be an everlasting and hard stop "no"? Interesting...
If the woman was already a tenured professor, there were three adults involved, and this is just crude guy talk and voyeurism.
But the masses demand it!
And before that the shock therapy that created the oligarchs
I guess he had burned his bridges with many because of his heretical take on gender
Thank you Harvard Crimson! Doing the job the NYT refuses to do.
Unasked for advice to Mr Summers: a woman knows in 30 seconds (or less) if she'll sleep with a man. If you're not picking up positive vibrations by meeting #3 it ain't happening Jeffery Epstein's counsel non-withstanding.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with "wanting" sex that the other person doesn't want. What would be wrong is forcing it on the other person when they don't want it. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as "married sex".
That was the next stupid thing after encouraging the vinklevossi not to sue zuckerberg
"U r..."
For a fleeting moment I was shocked by the jejune style of Harvard's leadership, but then I realized I'm better at probability theory than I thought.
One of the great things about AI is that attractive young scholars can use it, instead of men like Larry Summers, to get feedback on their papers.
But I was reliably informed that all of the stories in the Epstein files were bad ones about Trump. Oh, dear.
I know right btw why did epstein have an office at harvard
Summers has always been brilliant. But also unbelievably arrogant and pompous, with an inability to acknowledge when he's wrong. In his mind, he is never wrong.
So many of our 'experts' and best and brightest suffer from this. Perhaps that's what makes them great in a way, or they get that way from people praising them, looking up to them, constantly showering them with position and praise.
I heard a fairly recent debate with Summers and some other economically intelligent people recently. It was not pretty on Summers part. But he refused to acknowledge when he was wrong, and ended up cutting the thing short.
None of this has anything to do with 'Peril', but his assuming that she'd want to be with him because of his brilliance is a character flaw in people like Summers.
The more I hear of him, the less I care to listen to anything he has to say. Of course, my opinion of Larry Summers is like a gnat on a cow's ass to him, but I assume I'm not alone in that view.
I don't see any Presidents in the future reaching for his opinion on anything publicly.
Powerline agrees with me regarding the chimerical files. I couldn't have said it better, though I did.
"Like JFK, Jimmy Hoffa, and the Roswell aliens, the mystery will never be solved, nor will the mystery ever die."
Nah. There is no mystery to live or die, just disappointed fabulists; real-life Doctor Watsons theorizing without evidence. Althouse has a cadre of them who just won't STFU because they have nothing true or interesting to contribute.
Gee all these Epstein emails, 30,000 pages of new stuff just last week, every reporter in America combing through and yet not one corporate hack can find even one form of verified communication from Trump to Epstein. Nothing. Even that fake birthday card is really looking weird with no "original" of it appearing, only copies of photocopies (shades of Dan Rather's "disguise" for fake docs being employed).
Anyway the only mentions of Trump are from Epstein, who was consistently and paranoidly obsessed with Trump, or NYT "reporters" seeking dirt on Trump from Epstein directly. Then one day democrats realized Epstein and especially Giuffre were no longer useful to Get Trump Inc.
Now those two are no more. So? How long before Mr. Clinton is officially a liability and not an old wrinkly "ally?" Is there another state funeral in the near future?
I don't see a problem here. This is exactly how women talk about men.
Does anybody remember Privacy?!
To be charitable to Larry Summers I will suggest he was hoping that by being "invaluable and interesting", she would find him charming and that could be the basis for attraction. Much more so than men, women can grow attracted to a man based on things other than his physical appearance. Wit, slyness, humor, toughness, capacity to get things done, and many other masculine traits can endear a man to a woman. You can find examples on the internet of women finding otherwise physically unattractive people and characters attractive. I'm thinking of examples like Donald Trump and Tony Soprano. So perhaps Larry Summers is just hoping he could wow her with his influence and knowledge.
Presumably, the code name is riffing on the old Yellow Peril trope.
Summers was a terrible Treasury Secretary; especially when compared to Bessent.
“There's absolutely nothing wrong with "wanting" sex that the other person doesn't want. What would be wrong is forcing it on the other person when they don't want it.”
If we’re talking about thoughts alone then what you should want in that circumstance is that the other person would want you too. If in your mind what you want is to have sex with a person who doesn’t want you — in other words, if you’re fantasizing about raping them — then that’s wrong. It’s not a crime because you haven’t acted on it but it’s wrong. It’s wrong and you know it.
His best shot was at 2 AM
“In December 2005, Summers married English professor Elisa New, who has three daughters (Yael, Orli and Maya) from a previous marriage. He lives in Brookline, Massachusetts.”
So, in 2019 Summers was writing to Epstein about cheating on his wife. What a dog!
“U r better at understanding Chinese women than at probability theory,”
The ol' inscrutable Oriental trope.
I'll wait for the usual leftist cultists to call summers a "pedo"
I hate this whole prurient thing. If we could scrutinize the thoughts and musings of, say, Mick Jagger, Warren Beatty, Jack Nicholson and any rock star of the 70s-80s we would find the exact same. This is boilerplate womanizing. The women who let themselves get ensnared in it knew exactly who they were dealing with, although, being women, they probably thought they were the ones who would inspire the cads to lifelong monogamy.
That seems a nonsequitor
About chinese women,
As for the purely commercial transaction where money is exchanged for sex with a person who only wants the money and doesn’t want sex with you, my point easily and obviously applies. I think there’s something bad about you for wanting that. It’s usually the case that when you buy things that you want the seller only wants your money and it doesn’t otherwise benefit from handing over the merchandise. There can be exceptions to that, but in prostitution, the prostitute doesn’t want to have sex with you. The prostitute only wants the money. There are many things that are sold that you don’t buy because you don’t want them. You shouldn’t want sex with a person who doesn’t want to have sex with you. It’s irrelevant to my point that you could accomplish a consensual transaction.
“ No one should want sex that the other person does not want.”
The task in life for men is changing the latter part of that sentence.
No one should want sex that the other person does not want.
First, let me refer everyone to planetgeo's 7:22 comment - nothing wrong with wanting sex another doesn't want. Forcing sex on someone is what's wrong. How are you going to refrain from wanting something? Maybe the Buddha could have managed it... but I've never trusted that guy.
My own contribution is just this: if you want sex with someone of appropriate age and station relative to your own, to persuade that person to welcome your advances is 100% natural biologically and socially. Biologically speaking, there's even basis for coercion, which is why I support living in, you know, human society (and increasingly don't support living in a fundamentalist Islamic sub-society in the midst of "Westerners," since it seems for some reason they're setting themselves ever more in opposition to the "Western" value of not coercing or forcing sex on women and girls).
So if Summers was seeking advice from Epstein, of all people, on how to persuade this woman to sleep with him, his major error was in his choice of advisors, not in the advice he sought. But as John Henry points out, people who are brilliant in one area are susceptible to believing themselves in other areas - if Summers convinced himself that Epstein's "success" with "women" was a qualification, he probably just didn't question himself.
Yeah larrys judgement calls are terrible occassionally he does find a nut
“The women who let themselves get ensnared in it knew exactly who they were dealing with, although, being women, they probably thought they were the ones who would inspire the cads to lifelong monogamy.”
It is a corollary to my point that if you’re the person on the other side, the one who doesn’t want to have sex, that you should not have sex. You should always say no unless you actually want the sex. You should never allow sex to become your side of an in-kind transaction.
I dunno. I've had sex when I really didn't want to. That doesn't mean I didn't love her, but I did it for that health of the relationship.
It seems we're all focused on Althouse 's claim! I mean, Jesus approached it by saying that if you desire another man's wife, you've already committed adultery with her in your heart - basically, all fall short of the glory of God. We can all try to excise the evil we have within us, we will all fail, and we should all keep trying. To dismiss someone as being "wrong" (as in "immoral") for having an immoral thought but not acting on it is pretty facile. Christianity has traditionally viewed that scenario as a marker for someone, a sinner as are we all, trying hard to be good.
Does Althouse have a fixation on feminine modesty? Something really special about sex?
Thought experiment: in a society with no men there's no feminine modesty. Pussy is like kneecap or elbow, nothing special. Feminine modesty is aimed at men, to make the woman more desirable. Because of that, no sex unless I want it. Hard to understand. It sounds like resentment.
"“When I’m reflective I think I’m dodging a bullet,” he wrote. “Think right thing is to cut off contact. Suspect she will miss it. Problem is I will too.”
Doubt his wife is going to stick around much longer. but who knows?!
But discretion is repression or some such, of course what was epstein getting out of summers enabling him to use harvard facilities
If in your mind what you want is to have sex with a person who doesn’t want you — in other words, if you’re fantasizing about raping them
False dichotomy. I think Jamie's comment is spot on, especially the last 'graph. If there is any problem in this exchange it is the fact that Summers was communicating with Epstein. Trying to make this exchange into "Summers thinking about rape" is a distraction to the fact that Epstein was moving in circles with people far more connected to the Democrat establishment than to Trump.
Epstein's success at luring prominent American businessmen and politicians was innate fact that most men are insecure and governed by their sex drive.
What was ehud barak and bill burns part in this though
In early 80s, Harvard acknowledged its biggest problem was "sexual harassment of female students by male faculty". I can personally second that admission. It was rampant, know in detail of at least a dozen episodes in 1981 alone.
Can Trump sue Jazzmin (fake hair) Crocket(D)-
She called him a pedophile... on live TV.
Comment “disappeared” to protect your alias “Skinny Pete”…
You should always say no unless you actually want the sex.
I probably wouldn't have any children if I'd followed this advice. After the early, heady years of my relationship and marriage with my husband, my libido reverted to its former somnolent state, and sex became for me (as I told him) kind of like sushi: I'll never actually crave it, but set it in front of me and I'll thoroughly enjoy it. The "setting in front of" is the tricky bit, especially these days, and is more safely accomplished within a marriage.
Shouldn’t the word for student of a Mentor be Telemachus, instead of Mentee?
Suspect analogy!
"Come out Virginia,
Don't make me wait
You Catholic girls start much too late
Ah but sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one."
"Don't run back inside, darling
You know just what I'm here for
So you're scared and you're thinking
That maybe we ain't that young anymore
Show a little faith, there's magic in the night
You ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright
Oh, and that's alright with me"
"I'll never be your beast of burden
My back is broad but it's a-hurting
All I want for you to make love to me
I'll never be your beast of burden
I've walked for miles, my feet are hurting
All I want for you to make love to me
Am I hard enough?
Am I rough enough?
Am I rich enough?
I'm not too blind to see
I'll never be your beast of burden
So let's go home and draw the curtains
Music on the radio
Come on baby make sweet love to me
Am I hard enough?
Am I rough enough?
Am I rich enough?
I'm not too blind to see
Oh, little sister
Pretty, pretty, pretty girls
Ooh, you're a pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty girl
Pretty, pretty, such a pretty, pretty, pretty girl
Come on, baby, please, please, please"
Just a few examples, but I think at least a quarter of popular music and entertainment is based on guys trying to convince reluctant girls to have sex with them.
Cyrano de Bergerac?
After reading Ann's link the other day about the women who was one of Epstein's girls - and how she stayed despite the strange red-room ambush sex... often with other women as Epstein looked on.. it made me wonder why these women kept going back.
Oh yeah - money.
Harvard acknowledged its biggest problem was "sexual harassment of female students by male faculty".
Lord, not just Harvard! Sexual harassment of female students seemed to be some kind of droit de seigneur or something, particularly among the tenured.
Heartless Aztec 7:12 am nails it.
You won't need to much persuadin'
I don't mean to sound degradin'
But with a face like that you got nothin' to laugh about
Red lips, hair and fingernails
I hear you're a mean old Jezebel
Let's go upstairs and read my Tarot cards, come on, honey
Keyu Jin is a knockout!
Actually shes much more interesting than summers
The daughter of a finance minister subsequentlh ended up on the board of credit suisse maybe we have this story backwards
Keyu Jin Author of The New China Playbook — Keyu Jin https://share.google/vsAsRvRM26Kq5B7qw
There is a trend of women, especially young women, pursuing men because men are no longer keen on pursuing women. The professor seems to be implying that every single one of these women, especially the ugly ones, are rapists.
I also think Larry gets a pass on this one for two reasons. First, we live in such an appearance-focused society that we can easily forget about a person’s value beyond their looks. Being attractive is seen as the key to success, happiness and acceptance. This overwhelming emphasis on beauty has serious consequences on mental health and even social values. Let's not reinforce these terrible attitudes!! And, second, how about some common sense relationship advice? Being emotionally attracted to someone, especially a wealthy, well-educated someone, is the basis for a good relationship. Looks are temporary.
So I looked it up and Larry Summers is married and was married at the time of his comment to Epstein. To me at least, his cheating on his wife and wanting to cheat on his wife seems the far greater failing than hoping to have sex with a woman who he believes is not physically attracted to him.
"You should never allow sex to become your side of an in-kind transaction." Spoken like a true romantic. I wonder, would Jane Austen quite agree?
I'm maybe not as smart as I think I am, but I'm old enough to know better than to advise people how to structure their sex life and their thinking, about same. If you beleive two people are thinking the same thing about the sex they're having, just imagine three people.
Larry Summers got burned to the ground for publicly saying that - as a general proposition - woman aren’t as good at math and science than men.
Larry’s asking a pedophile for advice on how to cheat on his wife is a much bigger deal.
There was Nately's whore in Catch-22, who refused his romantic advances with disgust. Money was the thing.
To add on to my earlier comment, if 'Peril' slept with Larry Summers knowing that he was married at the time, she committed a far greater wrong than any man who actively pines for a woman who he believes is not physically attracted to him.
The joke is on both epstein and summers if you look at it tue right way
Somebody didn’t go to the HR training.
Need a keyword "Bad Relationship Advice"
If you beleive two people are thinking the same thing about the sex they're having, just imagine three people.
I nearly shot coffee out of my nose at this.
I'll never be your pizza burger
@Dave Begley @8:44, in point of fact he got burned to the ground for merely suggesting the possibility that woman might have different on-average capabilities and preferences from men with regard to STEM. It was probably the most milquetoast thing he's ever said.
"You shouldn’t want sex with a person who doesn’t want to have sex with you" Depends on the meaning of want. Strict application would stifle many potential relationships and complicate even otherwise good marriages.
"You should always say no unless you actually want the sex." Depends on the meaning of "want the sex." One can want the sex as sex or, quite legitimately, as means to a higher end.
In general, you should not live by general rules.
’Pussy is like kneecap or elbow, nothing special.’
I now have a clearer lens with which to view your comments.
Sorry about the double posting, but: forget sex, this is the truly discrediting thing:
"Imagine asking Jeffrey Epstein for advice on how to handle it!"
It's not just another horny guy getting tips from a plyaboy. Our overlords, Clinton to Summers to Gates to Plaskett, MIT and Harvard, sought that guy's "advice." Not only did they have no problem with him, they happily connected with him. The rot goes deep and wide.
They wanted donation he wanted status if not respectability
“Pussy is like kneecap or elbow, nothing special.”
How did I miss that one?!?!
Hardin would feel quite at home, rubbing elbows with these fellas…
https://x.com/OntWtf/status/1989417178047881412?s=20
It doesn't appear that Summers was guilty of anything criminal. I strongly suspect that is what we are going to learn about the entire trove of Epstein files- lots of association with Epstein but nothing crossing the line into criminality. Epstein would have been a fool to retain any incriminating evidence anywhere other than in his head.
God has so constructed the human race that women with an apathy approaching outright disgust can have sex with a man. Although there are men who can rise to the occasion--on any occasion--too much disinterest inhibits their performance. This is God's plan. He wants smart, ugly men to work hard so that they can win the attention of pretty girls, and he wants pretty girls with half a brain to marry rich men.......There are other paths to happiness for smart, ugly men and for poor, good looking women, but this is definitely a path.
Define "want" here. I want to have sex with Sydney Sweeney even though I know her reaction to the idea would be, "Eeeewww."
Give Summers a break. He's texting with Jeffrey Epstein about sex and it's miles away from pedophile related. He should be celebrated for his normal sex drive. Also, it sounds like Summers is trying to get help from Jeffrey Epstein on how to convince this woman to have consensual sexual relations with him via persuasion and not by force, blackmail or manipulation.
Prince Andrew seems to be the only one in Epstein social net who has suffered dire consequences for his actions.
I think mentoring from Larry Summers in exchange for sex is a great deal! How do I get in touch with him?
I met Summers a couple of times, I’ve learned economics from Summers but I can tell you no woman should be physically attracted to Summers. Sure be attracted to his credentials and we all know economists are sexy but physically attracted to him? No…
"... Epstein would have been a fool to retain any incriminating evidence anywhere other than in his head. ..."
I was thinking that the entire purpose of Epstein's lifestyle was to explicitly gather it, given the extent and sophistication of his surveillance systems.
Where did his money come from, and how did he acquire it, and what were his credentials for the path he walked? I'm pretty sure this question has been answered.
"Yancey Ward said...
...Epstein would have been a fool to retain any incriminating evidence anywhere other than in his head."
Unless Epstein & Maxwell were involved in a honey-pot sexual blackmail scheme on behalf of one or more Intelligence agencies.
I'm expecting a full on attack on Summers tonight on MSNBC. Former President of Harvard! Former Treasury Secretary!
And how is Mr Summers' relationship with Mrs Summers going?
She may have not wanted it, but it’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind.
I've had sex when I really didn't want to. But my hand is so insistent....CC, JSM
Summers is a dirty economist. Go look at his record. Like the disgust "Dersh" - its no surprise he''s mixed up with Epstein and getting "massages" on Pedo island.
As for Summers. Most unattractive men realize that at an early age and adjust their desires. You aint' gonna get a "10". Maybe try for "5" or a "4". But then there are exceptions, like Summers, who are constantly trying to "score" and get into bed with attractive women outta their league.
Epstein understood the way to blackmail and reward such men.
Oh noes anyways
I expect an invire from the usual suspect to dr jin
Kai Akker--back in the days of very poor audio, my wife's then roommate sincerely believed that the words were "I'll never leave your pizza burning."
I can't hear the song without hearing it that way. It works.
This lady is Asian and Summers is referring to her as "Peril?" As in "Yellow Peril?" Bloody hell. The kids suing Harvard for anti-Asian discrimination could have used this as Exhibit A. CC, JSM
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 2 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith.