May 5, 2022

Has the Court's Dobbs draft shifted the press and other partisans back to saying "women," or is "pregnant people" still something they feel disciplined to say?

The Star Tribune has a column (by lawprof Laura Hermer) titled "Pregnant people have rights. Products of conception don't. The leaked Dobbs draft opinion gets fetal rights backward." The text uses the phrase "pregnant person" 5 times and there's also one "person who gave birth" and 5 appearances. 

The word "women" does show up once at the very beginning and once at the very end — in the phrase "women's rights." If you want strong political speech on this issue, you need to say "women's rights." You invite ridicule — even if we stifle our urge to ridicule outside of the confines of our head — if you decorously substitute "pregnant people's rights."

At USA Today, there's "People of color, the poor and other marginalized people to bear the brunt if Roe v. Wade is overturned" by Nada Hassanein. Wouldn't it be stronger to write "Women of color, the poor and other marginalized women"? 

We're told: "If Roe is overturned, people may travel hundreds of miles to get to states where abortions are still allowed. Young and low-income people, who are disproportionately of color, may not be able to afford the cost of travel." Wouldn't "women" generate more empathy? But "people" is used to remember to be empathetic to trans people. 

Anyway, the word "woman" is also used repeatedly in that article, including to refer to the as-yet-not-renamed National Women’s Law Center. 

The Washington Post has "Roe to be decided in one of the worst cities to be Black and pregnant/The stakes are not evenly spread across people who become pregnant, and if the Supreme Court justices need a reminder of that, they don’t have to look far" (by Theresa Vargas). The article does use the word "women" many times, along with many appearances of "people." We're told the Court's "mulling over what protections pregnant people deserve" is occurring in a geographic location where "almost all the pregnant people dying are Black." There's a quote from a report that says "Black birthing people constitute roughly half of all births in DC." (As if the "birthing people" are the "births"!) 

There are a lot of pieces about the Dobbs draft in The Washington Post, but only one other uses "pregnant people": "Meet the Reddit ‘Aunties’ covertly helping people get abortions/The Reddit group offers a glimpse into a post-Roe era where people resort to informal networks to assist those locked out of an abortion" (by Pranshu Verma). This one is very intent on saying "people" and not "women." "People" appears 18 times and the only appearance of the word "women" (there's no "woman") is in a caption under a photo of a clinic that has the word "Women's" in its name. 

Meanwhile, in the NYT, the phrase "pregnant people" has only appeared once since the draft leaked (and there's no example of "pregnant person"). It's in a new column by Emily Bazelon, "Beware the Feminism of Justice Alito." 

So that's a little evidence that the "pregnant people" nicety is getting nixed.

I can't check every elite publication for the absence of "pregnant people" — not if I want to write in this form called blog — but I did check one more, which I regard as an exemplar of liberal elitism, The New Yorker. It has not printed "pregnant people" since last November, in "If Roe v. Wade Goes, What Next?" (by David Remnick). 

I'll stop here, so I can post, but I'll be looking at this issue.

71 comments:

tim in vermont said...

I am thinking of changing my handle to ‘Product of Conception.’

BillieBob Thorton said...

Product of conception?
Like a baby?
Babies don't have rights?

David Begley said...

Orwell would be proud.

David Begley said...

Next up? The term Mother’s Day must be banned. Birthing Person’s Day!

Butkus51 said...

I kind of like how one progressive described real women. Bleeders. Lets go with that.

tim in vermont said...

I actually support the right to abortion, as it was understood just a few years ago anyway, but I will never support the dehumanization of the unborn. By pretending that these babies are not human, it lessens the weight of the decision to end a human life. I doubt I am the only person bothered by this rhetoric.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

I heard someone on NPR yesterday who'd been born with two X chromosomes describing themselves as a "female-bodied person" and stating how devastating the loss of Roe would be to them. It was immediately clear that the Left is going to wind up tripping over this terminology to what will probably become a hilariously ironic extent.

What's emanating from your penumbra said...

It's really unfortunate for abortion fanatics that Dobbs comes up just as those same fanatics are gaslighting the public by saying men can get pregnant and you have no right to control your body when it comes to COVID. Very unfortunate timing indeed. Oh well.

Sometimes when I advise my clients not to cut corners, to make the effort to do things the correct way, they push back by saying this little thing doesn't really matter. What's the harm? They want to know exactly what is the risk of fudging.

I long ago came to the conclusion that I'm not smart enough to predict all the potholes lying ahead in the road, so being honest and doing things the right way is simply insurance. Or you can make up penumbras and see how it works out for you.

tommyesq said...

" Products of conception" is a horrid, Mengele-sounding term. Shows where the author is coming from.

Sebastian said...

"Products of conception don't."

As a product of conception, I beg to differ.

By the way, what are the odds that KBJ discovers the meaning of "woman" without aid of a biologist, when "pregnant people" becomes ridiculous even for progs?

What's emanating from your penumbra said...

tim in vermont said...

I am thinking of changing my handle to ‘Product of Conception.’

Brilliant.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Oh come on Althouse. Women aren’t even mentioned in the constitution. We the pregnant peoples is correct 🤔

Bob Boyd said...

Set one's pedal appendage on a line where something has split without complete separation and one will cause a separation in the rear surface of one's birthing person's body in the area between the shoulders and the hips.

TrespassersW said...

"Pregnant people" and all of its misbegotten siblings are utterly ridiculous locutions. The man or woman who uses them guarantees that I will evermore consider him or her someone whose opinion can safely be ignored.

My charity only stretches so far.

tim maguire said...

This is like getting a snapshot of where women stand vs. the trans community in the victimhood olympics. When forced to make a choice between taking a strong stance in favor of abortion and showing proper fealty to the trans bullies, which will they choose? How do women really rank?

"Laura Hermer is a professor of law at Mitchell Hamline School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota. Her current research focuses on access to health coverage and care in the United States, with a particular focus on underserved populations and population health"

So neither a doctor nor a constitutional scholar. I can see why they turned to her for this column.

TreeJoe said...

This has got to stop being about Roe; Roe isn't being decided. It was decided.

This is about the court's interpretation of constitutional rights, states rights, and personal rights at it relates to the abortive medical procedure.

I would love to have a specific decision by the court if a fetus is a person with rights. THAT would have great implications as to whether harm to a pregnant woman causing harm to a baby or loss of the fetus is a special crime and a host of other special protections granted to pregnant women. Further, it would define - legally - when conception turns into an individual person with their own inherent rights. Right now the line is extremely blurred between gestation and live birth.

I'm of the opinion there are viable cases for abortion as a medical procedure, but they are less about voluntary termination of pregnancy as a contraceptive choice. And it would be beneficial for society to define - legally - when a fetus becomes a person with unique,
inherent rights.

Bob Boyd said...

products of conception

How about biowidgets?

Jersey Fled said...

"Products of conception"

Amazing how liberals lie to themselves to protect their liberal views.

GatorNavy said...

You are expecting logic and sound reasoning from fanatics?

farmgirl said...

Haha- products of conception!
W/a shelf life…
Smart people concepts!

Leland said...

TERFs in a turf war.

Milo Minderbinder said...

Another reason SCOTUS' investigating marshal can rule out as suspects clerks for the three liberal Justices: until the left defines a "woman" they can't yet deal with abortion.

gilbar said...

Serious question
Is there anyone, that is NOT a Product of Conception?

Meade said...

“Is there anyone, that is NOT a Product of Conception?”

Product of misconception: survivors of attempted abortion.

Spiros said...

Labels are important. Harry Reid got in trouble for referring to President Obama as a "light skinned" African American with "no Negro dialect." (Hilarious!) The word "negro" is no longer socially acceptable. It is uncouth. Can you imagine James Brown singing "Say it loud, I'm [Negro] and I'm proud"?

Anyways, I don't know why these people think the term "pregnant women" is offensive or inaccurate. It accurately describes the population most affected by the Dobbs decision.

Wince said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jeff Weimer said...

AP to the rescue, just in time:

https://twitter.com/kkruesi/status/1521934671927562240?s=20&t=s5O_jOjr1sxKqo4f2aJuaA

Leland said...

AP notices horse is out and tries to close the barn door:

Pregnant People:
Phrasing like pregnant people or people who seek an abortion seeks to include people who have those experiences but do not identify as women, such as some transgender men and some nonbinary people.

Such phrasing should be confined to stories that specifically address the experiences of people who do not identify as women.

Meade said...

“Orwell would be proud.”

I think I see what you did there—using doublethink to make a point condemning doublethink. Unless I’m over-thinking it, in which case—don’t think twice, it’s simultaneously alright and all wrong.

Christopher B said...

It appears some euphemisms are more useful than others.

wildswan said...

Product of Conception = POC.

Althouse may be on to something - the actual power of the extreme left as measured by doubling down on "birthing people" in place of "women" on a women's issue. Ahead of or behind polling?

Václav Patrik Šulik said...

At USA Today, there's "People of color, the poor and other marginalized people to bear the brunt if Roe v. Wade is overturned" by Nada Hassanein.

So the progressives are fighting to kill off the next generation of people of color, the poor, and other marginalized people, while Clarence Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett are seeking to give them life?

Brylinski said...

A clone would not be a product of conception. As far as I know there are no human clones yet (but check with China...).

And I'm confused. Has a man actually had a baby? I know there are several women who have "transitioned" to men and have had babies. But what about men who have "transitioned" to women? I don't recall seeing any examples of these folks. Can anyone help me out here?

Lexington Green said...

They must all be biologists.

MikeR said...

The billionaires who are paying for this media outrage could take care of the financial issue by themselves. It isn't that much money, way less than a billion dollars a year. Bloomberg and Zuckerberg spent more on the 2020 presidential campaign.

Fred Drinkwater said...

Nice, Bob.
Took me much longer than it should have...

robother said...

"Pregnant"? "Birthing"? Requiring those modifiers as the essence of a person's identity is insulting enough to feminists, but even more jarring in the context of a debate about abortion. Quite revealing of the Leftist Logos, though. Revulsion at nativity, the natural, as if human nature could ever be purged of nature, and remain human.

Unknown said...

"Pregnant people have rights. Products of conception don't. The leaked Dobbs draft opinion gets fetal rights backward." As a product of conception I protest the title. And claim that it's my right to protest.

Amexpat said...

Funny, I was watching Life of Brian on Netflix and took a break to surf online and saw this post. The scene I had just left was about fighting for a man's theoretical right to have a baby. What was an absurd comic sketch has now become a reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R79yYo2aOZs

West TX Intermediate Crude said...

IANAL, and I have not read Justice Alito's entire draft.
Maybe I should know better, but I have not seen any of the pro-Roe folks criticize the draft on actual Constitutional grounds.
All of the criticism is based on one of the following:
1. Bodily autonomy (just a clump of cells inside the BP's body, she can do what she wants to with it).
2. Tradition (Roe is ~50 years old and therefore inviolate).
3. Utilitarian (BPs need free access to abortion to be fully functional in modern society, esp BIPOCs, the poor, and other marginalized groups).

None of these is an actual Constitutional argument. SCOTUS exists to decide Constitutional arguments, not to pick up the slack where the other 2 branches have fallen short. It's encouraging that pro-Roes who want to pass a law, or, even more strongly and Amendment, are pretty much ignored because such a law can't pass the Congress as it presently exists.

Justice Alito made this argument clearly in the parts of the draft that I have read.
Must be that the pro-Roes can't read, or don't want to.
Sad.

farmgirl said...

“Further, it would define - legally - when conception turns into an individual person with their own inherent rights. Right now the line is extremely blurred between gestation and live birth.”

It’s individual, Tree Joe, based on emotional state of mind:

1) if the “product” is “wanted” then it’s an unborn child. The “mother” caters to the needs of this unborn desire by nuancing lifestyle, limiting harmful habits (caffeine, nicotine, alcohol)and anticipating said “product” on this side of the womb. Preferably w/in a loving embrace. Awwww- smell the pheromones!

&b) unwanted, like this:

https://twitter.com/OdderDude/status/1521758138755469313

See, Liberal ease.




Stephen said...

"We're told the Court's 'mulling over what protections pregnant people deserve' is occurring in a geographic location where 'almost all the pregnant people dying are Black.' There's a quote from a report that says 'Black birthing people constitute roughly half of all births in DC.' (As if the 'birthing people' are the 'births'!) "

The writer is angry, and perhaps that's one factor behind her imprecise language! Also, if she thought about the matter she picked the wrong thing to be angry about. In a post-Roe world the inability for "black birthing people" to get abortions in DC is not a problem. DC has already enacted abortion-rights protections, as have 16 states.

A useful aid in analyzing the secondary and tertiary effects of Dobbs, as presently drafted, is an abortion-law map. A good one is in the WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/where-state-abortion-laws-stand-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned-11651614828?st=lyea2u0uz1szqny&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)

Joe Smith said...

Tucker did an entire segment last night on schools providing 'menstrual products' in the boys' restrooms.

Equity dontcha know.

Hilarious.

Yancey Ward said...

Each and everyone of us is a "product of conception", even Howard.

Sydney said...

“Products of conception” is usually the term used for the baby parts after the abortion or after a miscarriage. So, yes, the products of conception do not have rights, just like a corpse does not have rights. I have never heard of a living embryo or fetus referred to as products of conception. It is a deliberate misuse (or abuse) of language to dehumanize the unborn.

Readering said...

Reminds me that the cartoonist of the stick figure Obama liberal said he was thinking of the trans rights issue. I was in same place 2008, and though don't generally feel folks ran to the left in the last 14 years, on the T in LGBT I do feel the same way. I will retire before I self-identify in business email signature blocks.

Mark said...

Our nation's capital of Washington D.C. has long had the MOST EXTREME abortion laws in the country. Namely, it doesn't have any laws at all. Or at least it did not until recently, when it passed a law explicitly saying that the government cannot interfere in any way with abortion.

In other words, anything goes. At any time. And no need to worry about abortion facility health and safety inspections or regulation.

It is in this atmosphere of abortion extremism, which is the real anti-woman regime, that birthing persons of color are enduring poor conditions of medical care.

How many post-Roe decisions prohibited common sense abortion facility health and safety regulations? How many pro-abortion cities and states have totally ignored the Gosnell clinics in their jurisdictions?

Abortion is anti-woman. From every angle. Let's not give it the approval of the law anymore.

Real American said...

these people don't even understand how offensive the term "People of color" is to non-blacks.

Also, if non-white people are having the most abortions then non-white children are being slaughtered at a higher rate - Margaret Sanger's wet dream. Great job, bigots!

Joe Smith said...

'Also, if non-white people are having the most abortions then non-white children are being slaughtered at a higher rate - Margaret Sanger's wet dream. Great job, bigots!'

Robert Byrd smiles...

farmgirl said...

Sydney: holy crap. You’re so right!
Way to spin it, eh? Liberal ease…

farmgirl said...

Real American: exactly.

Jupiter said...

How about "potential abortions"?

n.n said...

how offensive the term "People of color" is to non-blacks

It should be offensive to everyone, but especially blacks. "Colored" refers to a low information attribute. "of color" refers to diversity [dogma], a bloc (e.g. race, racism), which denies individual dignity, individual conscience, and intrinsic value a la abortion rites a.k.a. Planned Parent/hood a.k.a. wicked solution for social, redistributive, clinical, and fair weather causes.

Wince said...

Wince said...
Has anyone commented on Bezo's announced $4,000 "abortion benefit" (bounty?) actually being a cheap and cynical way out for Amazon NOT to pay for Family Leave, medical care and replacement workers?

Assistant Village Idiot said...

It might affect popular opinion, but I doubt it is affecting SCOTUS justices much.

Clyde said...

They invite ridicule because they are ridiculous.

Paul A. Mapes said...

Law professor Laura Hermer says "products of conception" don't have rights. Has it occurred to this "scholar" that every person now living on this planet is in fact "a product of conception."?

Paul A. Mapes said...

Law professor Laura Hermer says "products of conception" don't have rights. Has it occurred to this "scholar" that every person now living on this planet is in fact "a product of conception."?

Paul A. Mapes said...

Law professor Laura Hermer says "products of conception" don't have rights. Has it occurred to this "scholar" that every person now living on this planet is in fact "a product of conception."?

Paul A. Mapes said...

Law professor Laura Hermer says "products of conception" don't have rights. Has it occurred to this "scholar" that every person now living on this planet is in fact "a product of conception."?

mikee said...

I suppose calling the XX persons who are gestating one fetus (or more) something like "Mothers" would be considered biased.

farmgirl said...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/whoopi-goldberg-makes-decision-abortion-doctor-child-video/

Whoopi is into Democracy-
2 against one.

n.n said...

Pregnant people (or persons?): women. Non-binary people... persons: male or female sex, exclusively; masculine or feminine gender, respectively; and a transgender minority spectrum full of confusion, dysfunction, and corruption.

There go the lions, lionesses, and their [unPlanned] cubs.

walter said...

Stay out of Whoopi's vagina!

It's a damn tightrope trying employ wokewords while appealing to the black community that ain't big on the alphabet club.

RMc said...

At USA Today, there's "People of color, the poor and other marginalized people to bear the brunt if Roe v. Wade is overturned"

And you thought the "women and minorities hardest hit" jab was just a joke!

dbp said...

When you have to use ridiculous euphemisms like, "Products of conception" in an argument, you have zero chances of convincing anybody who isn't already convinced.

gpm said...

>> I kind of like how one progressive described real women. Bleeders.

Per Alice[sic] Cooper: "Only Women Bleed."

--gpm

gpm said...

>>I was watching Life of Brian on Netflix . . . The scene I had just left was about fighting for a man's theoretical right to have a baby.

"I want you to call me Loretta." That scene is hysterical[sic] (and prescient???). It's been a while since I've seen it, but LoB was one of the most-quoted movies at our (now permanently closed due to COVID) neighborhood bar/Irish pub owned and run by actual Irish people. The two most quoted scenes, undoubtedly, were the "What have the Romans ever done for us?" and the Latin lesson (especially since two of the regulars, including me, had competed at the Illinois state Latin contest back in the day).

The king of the quoted movies was, I think, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. We could practically do the whole movie by heart.

Another top contender was The Producers, by far the best Mel Brooks movie for me (a lot of the others I can't get through), even though I'm not too fond of the Dick Shawn and Kenneth Mars characters. I think I've only seen it once, but the remake with Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick was mostly atrocious.

--gpm

--gpm

JAORE said...

Stay out of Whoopi's vagina!

Boy, talk about a non-problem.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Ann, I think you missed this one:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/03/supreme-court-might-never-recover-overturning-roe-v-wade/

This is an editorial (a real editorial, as in "written by the Editorial Board") on Roe that over its many grafs never once includes the words "woman" or "women." "Pregnant people" and "pregnant individuals" do show up, though.

This is, frankly, insane. The number of "men" who have gotten preggers so far is countable, I think, on the fingers of one mutilated hand. The whole mess started with a "man" who showed up at the ER complaining of stomach pains; the staff took him at his word and didn't think that he might be pregnant, which he was. That our whole vocabulary about all things female needs to be reset because of this is nuts.

Amexpat said...

I want you to call me Loretta." That scene is hysterical[sic] (and prescient???)

I think the name Loretta was inspired by the Beatles' "Get Back"
"Sweet Loretta Modern thought she was a woman
But she was another man"