From "Jimmy Kimmel and Trump feud over the president’s favorite subject: TV ratings" (WaPo).
IN THE COMMENTS: AReasonableMan said:
Mocking Trump is unlikely to move the needle regarding his political support right now, but it is an entertaining pastime, not unlike listening to the orchestra on the Titanic.AReasonableMan? More like ABadAnalogyMan. The "orchestra" — an 8-person band — played on the Titanic because "their leader, the violinist Wallace Hartley... a highly principled person and a devout Christian... raised in the Methodist church... [and] had contemplated being on a sinking ship and had already decided how he would respond. He believed that music could prevent panic and create calm. He had also chosen his final piece of music" — "Nearer, My God, to Thee," a song his father, a choirmaster, had introduced to his congregregation. It was not, I don't think, entertainment, but a profound religious experience in the face of impending, certain death.
The Trump presidency is not a hopeless situation, and it might not even be bad, but even for those who think it is terrible and very dangerous, they are not like the doomed passengers on the Titanic, and if they act like they are similarly doomed, they deserve criticism for passivity if they seek pacifying entertainment. Let them look for solutions and find effective things to do. They should act more like people who still have a chance to get themselves and other people onto lifeboats or to call out to other ships to come save them.
If those who think Trump is dangerously destructive are really right and they spend their time consuming Trump-mocking entertainment, they're more like the audience in "Caberet," making light of the rise of Hitler:
ADDED: Here's Jimmy Kimmel making comedy out of opposing women's suffrage:
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129 comments:
Mocking Trump is unlikely to move the needle regarding his political support right now, but it is an entertaining pastime, not unlike listening to the orchestra on the Titanic.
Trump is not easy to mock, since he's mostly playing one level up from the mocker.
The best you can do is little kids doing Trump with gestures
http://comonocreerendios-lem.blogspot.com/2018/02/trump-kids.html
But they're just mocking the superficial part.
Kimmel is just upset that Oscars dropped to record low viewership this year, falling nearly 20 percent from 2017. It's the fourth consecutive year that viewership has declined, the last 2 with Kimmel at the helm. And quelle surprise - would liberals willingly watch an Oscars hosted by Kimmel's equivalent on the right? Bad things happen when you alienate half your audience - just ask the NFL.
Kümmel is worthless and weak. He should go back to watching the buggies bounce on a trampoline
Juggies spellcheck
FAKE NEWS Trump's favorite subject is obviously himself.
Juggies spellcheck
Considering the apparent popularity of sodomy, either will do.
They do want to get under Trump's skin ("small hands") and they succeed to an extent. Trump's tweets indicate he often gets annoyed by or insulted by these kinds of statements.
But their underlying hope is that will provoke a response so outlandish that it will cause a more widespread disgust of or lack of support for the Trump Presidency, leading ultimately to impeachment or removal from office. This has not been achieved. And the possibility exists that Trump is in full control replying just enough to keep the opponents obsessed with these efforts, but never crossing the line into the region where current Trump supporters will begin to peel away.
Kimmel’s preachy liberalism is hard to reconcile with his early career, as many have pointed out. I do suspect there’s an element of say-the-right-things-and-be-cool to his recent outspokenness. I also find it interesting that his longtime friend and collaborator, Adam Carolla, would sooner die than embrace any bit of the PC culture or its pieties.
Well both Kimmel and Trump used to host a program that put woman on stage for others to stare and judge as objects.
The Oscars' miserable Neilsen is the joke, and Kimmel is the punchline.
In 2017 Hollywood made a bunch of movies that people mostly stayed away from, and they celebrated their movie-making with a show that relatively few people watched. I don’t care how many “Likes” Kimmel’s buddies gave him, I’d say Trump won.
We live in a world gone mad.
What will Jeopardy do when no one knows or cares about recent Oscars?
Great! His Oscars were a bust, but his tweet got attention. Yay you, Jimmy Kimmel!
(this is what happens. People who fall into the pit where only Democrats are acceptable get stuck. They can only see what's around them- other Democrats- and they lose their touch at actually entertaining)
Jimmy Kimmell is taking the Oscars on a wrong way turn that has resulted in the wreck of the lowest watched program in the history of the Oscars.
In the 'Adults 18-49' category of TV ratings Kimmel is regularly outscored by 'Adult Swim', a series of various cartoons.
He had room to position himself as the non-PC late-night guy, but instead chose to swim the same waters as Stephen Colbert, Seth Myers, Trevor Noah, etc: all of these guys are trying to eat the same slice of pie. Or pissing in the same swimming pool, to use the previous 'swim' analogy.
Something like that.
Of course, after pissing in the pool the only thing left to do to gain attention is to shit in the pool. (and not the 'Caddyshack' Baby Ruth kind).
I think they're ready now.
The Germans have a word for this.
Kimmel sell-by date was when his son required medical attention and he turned his show into an infomercial for Obamacare. The home crowd went wild, Jimmy seized the moment, became unfunnny, and he turned off half of America.
Kimmel unfunny.
Best Oscar moment: black man steals Fargo statue after inclusion rider plea.
"and not the 'Caddyshack' Baby Ruth kind"
We actually tried that back in high school. Baby Ruths don't float.
No one puts Baby Ruth in a corner.
The Germans have a word for this.
What is WRONG with these people? Blind hatred has rotted their minds, assuming they had such to begin with.
I had not seen any of the movies nominated. Kimmel's description of the winner makes me glad I didn't. Trump as an incubus is an image that really doesn't make any sense. So far as I know he's had sex with women who were perfectly willing.
I watched the Seinfeld podcast, Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. He bleeped out the four letter words, and I caught only one mild joke against Trump. The show was amusng and kind of restful. I liked to watch an episode or two before bed. Some of the comedians were introspective and reflective on their lives and careers. Gary Shandling's ruminations on the transience of life was filmed just a little while before he died, and it had the impact of a Bergman movie.......There's a market for comedians who make fun of something other than Trump and Republicans. Has there been a comedian who has made fun of late night comedians with their obsessive desire to make fun of Trump?. It's overdone and ridiculous.
"If those who think Trump is dangerously destructive are really right and they spend their time consuming Trump-mocking entertainment"
Sure, sure, but progs don't believe their own BS. Even their outrage is a tool.
Who will mock the mockers? The ridiculers are ridiculous.
No matter what they call themselves, State-cultists are about as "reasonable" as any other cultists. Which is to say: Not at all.
Here's Jimmy Kimmel making comedy out of opposing women's suffrage:
No, Jimmy Kimmel was making comedy of people's ignorance of the meaning of suffrage. And you claim I am humorless.
Declaring victory and going home only works once. If, like the Left, you have to make a show of spiking the ball every day, you’re sliding into pathos. Dudes get this, women and prog-males not so much.
AReasonableMan? More like ABadAnalogyMan.
It's more like the disco on a Carnival cruise line.
So far as I know he's had sex with women who were perfectly willing.
Well then you haven't been paying attention. In addition to Ivana, who accused him of rape in their divorce proceedings (she later withdrew the accusation), there are numerous women who have claimed unwanted sexual advances by Trump.
Did anybody sign the sufferage petition for the right reason.
I don't think I've ever seen Kimmel's late night show. I do remember him from 2 previous efforts. Win Ben Stein's Money and The Man Show.
I loved The Man Show when it was on but I guess that makes me pretty deplorable. A number of episodes (All?) are on YouTube and I just watched a few minutes of the very first episode where Jimmy and Adam Corolla (his sidekick) stood on top of Hoover Dam and declaimed their mission statement.
They pledge that the show will be a dam against all sorts of things including the feminization of America:
JK: "[We pledge] a dam to stop the river of estrogen that is drowning us in political correctness"
And so on.
Back in the studio they pledge that every show will end with girls bouncing on trampolines.
Unfortunately, unlike Putney Swope's Lucky Airlines, their women have clothes on. https://youtu.be/KioFuZl-ghg?t=1m5s
Still and all, better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
Ep 1 is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=old9udgHDMs (No girls allowed!)
John Henry
there are numerous women who have claimed unwanted sexual advances by Trump.
None of them credible.
The left and the media are only playing a tune that was new in 1968. It has gotten much duller with time.
I am rereading "Nixon's White House Wars" and enjoying the war between Nixon and Agnew on one side and the media on the other.
After Nixon lost the 1962 election for Governor of California, ABC had a program about his career that featured Alger Hiss and his opinion of Nixon.
Not even Trump draws the hatred of the media like Nixon did. They finally took down Nixon with the aid of the FBI through Mark Felt. I don't think it will work with Trump because, unlike Nixon, he is a happy warrior.
They also took down Agnew for a peccadillo that would not be a speed bump to the Clintons.
If they were seriously worried about Trump, they should have run somebody besides Hillary, whom even most Democrats dislike.
there are numerous women who have claimed unwanted sexual advances by Trump.
Yes, too bad you guys squandered your credibility by running Hillary Fucking Clinton, whose husband “Bill “Rod ‘em” Clinton, oh, that’s right, it’s all lies!
"None of them credible."
Do you mean that you do not find the Russian prostitute in a Thai prison credible ?
There’s something about these “celebrities” like Kimmel and De Nic o hating on Trump that screams out, “I’m jealous!” And that something is Everything.
Well, be careful, Jimmy. Mark Cuban is in Stage 1 of the Trump curse. Ask Lindsay Vonn about that.
@Dr. Michael K, is she one of ones that pissed the bed?
there are numerous women who have claimed unwanted sexual advances by Trump
I said "had sex with." As the "Me Too" campaign shows, there is a difference between looks, leers, or a touch or kiss, and actual attempted rape and rape. Touches which are not attempted rape become reason for condemnation when they are repeated multiple times over the woman's expressed objections. I'm not sure I buy all of the charges of the more minor items against Trump. However, if you're going to condemn every man who ever emitted a wolf whistle, you're going to condemn the vast majority of them, and for no good reason.
As to Ivana's now-retracted charges, lots of things are said in divorce proceedings when emotions are high.
there are numerous women who have claimed unwanted sexual advances by Trump
The claim was that he's only had sex with women who were willing, not that every woman he ever made a move on said "Yes." Get the difference? Is there a heterosexual man alive who has never made an "unwanted sexual advance" on a woman? If so, he's probably too cautious.
@Althouse, regarding the music that the Titanic's band played while the ship was sinking. In 1986 Walter Lord published "The Night Lives On," which is a follow-on to his famous book "A Night to Remember" that documented the sinking of the Titanic. In the follow-on he completely demolishes the legend that the band played "Nearer My God to Thee" as the ship sank. The survivors remember the band playing "Songe d'Automne," a light waltz tune that was popular on the Continent at that time, not "Autumn," one of the more obscure musical settings for "Nearer My God to Thee." One survivor went so far as to write that they did not play that maudlin hymn because "I assuredly should have noticed it and regarded it as a tactless warning of immediate death to us all and one likely to create panic."
Both books, and others written by Lord such as "Miracle at Dunkirk," are available through the Althouse Amazon portal.
I'm not sure which part of Kimmel's characterization of Trump's affair with Stormy Danielle makes him a monster.
That he had an affair with a porn star? Hmmm ... probably not. Stormy had sex with a lot of men. And didn't Tiger Woods have affairs with porn stars? And that "winning" actor guy? (Oh yea, Charlie Sheen)
Or that he won't let her talk about it.
I propose that all women who ever had sex with Jimmie Kimmel immediately start talking about it.
"They took down Agnew for a peccadillo that would not be a speed bump to the Clintons."
Not to digress, but totally true. The question though is Who took down Agnew? Nixon had the DOJ with Mitchell in charge.
Not to exonerate the Left of anything, but it likely was right wingers supposedly on Agnew's side, that took him down.
This leads to several interesting conclusions - best discussed in a different thread.
As to Ivana's now-retracted charges, lots of things are said in divorce proceedings when emotions are high.
And women lie in divorce proceedings, all the damn time.
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy...you were so cute when you trolled the dark side--smug, but cute.
Now you are still smug, but you are just like everyone else on TV.
Sad.
You must have had access to too much of Ben Stein's (other people's?) money.
I'm curious why Kimmel thinks that his tweet getting more likes than Trump's tweet somehow indicates that he gets under Trump's skin.
"Freder Frederson said...
Here's Jimmy Kimmel making comedy out of opposing women's suffrage:
No, Jimmy Kimmel was making comedy of people's ignorance of the meaning of suffrage. And you claim I am humorless."
No they did make fun of opposing women's suffrage. The beginning of the bit claimed it was the worse day in the history of men.
If Althouse took Trump as seriously as she pretends to do in her response to my post she would not be pandering to the punters here with diversionary puff pieces but instead providing a genuine, thoughtful critique of Trump's presidency. This kind of analysis has been completely lacking here for the last year so I call BS. Despite the clownish nature of Trump's presidency it is not impossible to provide such a thoughtful critique. Some commentators have taken him seriously and provided serious criticism in return, despite the mobile, almost vaporous, nature of the target.
It is interesting that Althouse focuses on the seriousness of purpose of the orchestra master. Many of those mocking Trump believe themselves to have an equally serious purpose. To each his own God.
This kind of analysis has been completely lacking here for the last year...
Speak for yourself, Cat Person.
Kimmel is a little figurine who belongs on a shelf somewhere.
Henry said...
Cat Person.
Harsh.
AReasonableMan said... Harsh
That's why I'm a dog.
"there are numerous women who have claimed unwanted sexual advances by Trump"
Get back to me if there's a credible claim of rape or that he used a young and confused intern as a humidor.
You see you've lowered the bar of acceptable presidential behavior so low that 'so what' is the proper response.
Also.
Any time you would like to contribute to the topic at hand could only add to your credibility.
It would be refreshing if there were some sort of objective discussion of the changes in US public policy, 2/17-2/18, but there is almost nothing in the MSM. Nor is there, for that matter, anything sober about proposed changes.
Granted much of this is not sexy.
But let us take the more sexy bits. On immigration say. On both (or the various) sides all one gets is motivated reasoning at best, or straight emotional propaganda more usually.
Trump speaks only very generally on these things; but no-one of any stature or prominence does any better. Its easy to get the reason for reticence, which is that from different directions, anyone willing to get into the nuts and bolts and the tradeoffs and the value judgements is simply going to provide ammunition to his already enraged enemies, and moreover also risks enraging his friends and supporters by conceding many inconvenient truths.
The US as a whole is unable to have a reasoned discussion about anything at all. And this has been true for many years now, even in (or shamefully, especially in) the most "intellectual" of subcultures.
The fault, dear Americans, is not in your Trump, but in yourselves.
The left has been consuming mocking entertainment for far longer than Trump's candidacy; see Jon Stewart's The Daily Show, which was a primary source of news for many on the left for 2 decades, and probably still is for a somewhat smaller audience under Trevor Noah. Yet they think it was Trump that brought in the political hate.
Douthat and Frum have both provided straightforward critiques of this administration's policy, as best they could understand it. Some at NR have taken a shot, as well. Most of these efforts have been critical, although Douthat is neutral, but this is to be expected given Trump's own belligerence towards pretty much everyone, including his own staff.
buwaya wrote: The fault, dear Americans, is not in your Trump, but in yourselves.
I reply: I would point the finger at the media. Americans are very capable of debating the nuances of the issue, but so long as they put on the clowns, clown news is what you're gonna get.
ARM is correct. The left is the orchestra, blithely playing on, pretending all is well, as their Titanic party continues to go under
“It was not, I don't think, entertainment”
Double negative
So, orange is congruent to black... Sorry, "African"-American, in the progressive corruption (PC) cycle. Another win for "color" diversity and diversitists.
Certainly not Frum. He is a specialist in motivated reasoning and, lets say, ignoring inconvenient facts.
And this work does not require emotion, but dispassion. That so many of the great and good, or who are at least in positions of authority through expertise, are unable to get over themselves long enough to write an essay comparing both sides best arguments, is enough to condemn the lot.
This is Trumps meta-argument, that America's elites aren't, and it is constantly being proven.
How many of both of those sets of likes were Russian bots?
Its a shame comedy is so one sided today. If it weren't so, there would be less rabid political division, I believe. Being able to laugh at yourself bears humility and is liberating.
Sure, sure, but progs don't believe their own BS. Even their outrage is a tool.
It would be more effective if a few of them would kill themselves or worse, follow through on the threats to move to Canada.
It's 2018. It's not okay to make fun of someone because of the color of their skin.
Now, its likely the system will get Trump, one way or another, or that Trump will go away of his own, given natures probabilities, or even that all will automatically revert upon his triumphant departure anyway, this being but an episode.
The old regime will surely be back, having learned nothing and forgotten nothing. I am still a pessimist.
Its like Elmer Fudd vs Bugs Bunny. Elmer is humiliated constantly, but he persists. Eventually, sometimes, he even gets Bugs. But win or lose, he is still Elmer Fudd, and never better than that.
"@Althouse, regarding the music that the Titanic's band played while the ship was sinking. In 1986 Walter Lord published "The Night Lives On," which is a follow-on to his famous book "A Night to Remember" that documented the sinking of the Titanic. In the follow-on he completely demolishes the legend that the band played "Nearer My God to Thee" as the ship sank. The survivors remember the band playing "Songe d'Automne," a light waltz tune that was popular on the Continent at that time, not "Autumn," one of the more obscure musical settings for "Nearer My God to Thee." One survivor went so far as to write that they did not play that maudlin hymn because "I assuredly should have noticed it and regarded it as a tactless warning of immediate death to us all and one likely to create panic.""
I remember reading that when the movie came out, but researching the question this morning, that wasn't what I was seeing, which is why I wrote what I did. I'm interested in what's true here. The movie was rather dismissive of religion, you know. Leonardo DiCaprio tells off a preacher who's reciting some gloomy psalm as he's trying to get to a safer place on the ship. We're encouraged to dislike the preacher.
But the more religious version of the story is suspect too.
People tend to believe what they want to believe.
People tend to believe what they want to believe.
No they don't.
"I assuredly should have noticed it and regarded it as a tactless warning of immediate death to us all and one likely to create panic."
I call bullshit on that. I'm willing to believe that a survivor wrote it, but it's just not good evidence. He didn't hear it but he assures us he would have noticed. It would have been memorable because he'd have regarded it as "tactless." Really? He'd be out there on his lifeboat sneering at the people who were trapped on the ship about to die and doing what they saw fit dealing with their pitiful circumstances? What a dick!
Would a cat person find this funny?
"... they did not play that maudlin hymn ..."
"Nearer My God to Thee" is a believer's statement of unity with God, "e'en though it be a cross that raiseth me." It is built on Jacob's dream experience where he saw the ladder stretched from heaven to earth, the joining of the mystical with the physical, of God to man. In the gospel of John we see the meaning of that ladder: it is Christ himself, who joins the divine with the human.
Nothing maudlin about that. It is a beautiful poem.
Who thinks that when people are dying what they want is Muzak -- soothing meaningless tones -- and not a vivid reminder of the belief that when you die, you encounter God?
I think the answer is: an atheist.
Wait?? I thought The Oscars did terribly because of Netflix. Poor Jimmy. He thinks he is relevant, and most of us are laughing AT him, not with him. What a hypocrite he is....typical for those Hollywood people. What they don't realize, is that NORMAL people are sick of getting looked down at. http://www.businessinsider.com/jimmy-kimmel-blames-netflix-for-oscars-ratings-in-response-to-trump-2018-3
Blogger buwaya said... The US as a whole is unable to have a reasoned discussion about anything at all. And this has been true for many years now, even in (or shamefully, especially in) the most "intellectual" of subcultures. The fault, dear Americans, is not in your Trump, but in yourselves.
Absolutely 100% correct. We Americans were born into the lap of luxury with every opportunity made possible in the world and yet are too meek to confront political reality. Instead, we lather ourselves up slaying strawmen on the other side of the aisle... all while both parties are playing on the same team to make the world safe for the Davos crowd.
A particularly tasteless atheist.
ARM: "Douthat and Frum have both provided straightforward critiques of this administration's policy, as best they could understand it"
Their critiques are neither straightforward or policy based.
And neither, as of yet, understands anything that has happened over the last 3 years now.
Which makes them perfect candidates to serve as the requisite servile and fully trained pets of their lefty masters.
Jersey Fled said...I propose that all women who ever had sex with Jimmie Kimmel immediately start talking about it.
They are embarrassed to admit it.
Jersey Fled said...I propose that all women who ever had sex with Jimmie Kimmel immediately start talking about it.
TMI
To characterize either as servile is a stretch. They both seem rather difficult characters.
Really? He'd be out there on his lifeboat sneering at the people who were trapped on the ship about to die and doing what they saw fit dealing with their pitiful circumstances? What a dick!
In which Althouse trolls the dead. LOL.
It’s amazing to me that the word of a woman with millions and millions to gain in the divorce is sacrosanct, but a woman who was found by her friend bleeding and crying in a hotel room, and who told several other people about it at the time, all of whom who have testified under threat of prison, including Braoddrick, herself. Oh yeah, and Bill never provided an alibi, even though his whereabouts were documented by the logs of his security team, he never even denied it. He just refused to acknowledge the accusation.
Probably something happened with Trump and his wife, but only somebody who has never been in a long term marriage could honestly believe, if there was no political motivation to believe it, that it was as simple as portrayed by the talking point parrot media.
The thing is that it was a binary choice, and Democrats can’t admit that their candidate was deeply flawed, or are, like Beloved may well be, in a kind of denial about the true nature of the Clintons.
I'm willing to believe that a survivor wrote it
I should hope so, given that a survivor demonstrably did. No sense calling bullshit on him; he's been dead 105 years. At any rate, go buy the book and see what Walter Lord had to say after doing the research. Or hang onto your cherished delusion, it matters little at this point. For those interested, the question of what the band played is summarized in this Wikipedia article. Did they play Songe d'Automne? Or if they did play "Nearer My God to Thee," did they play the American orchestration? (But the band members were British, not American.) Or the Anglican version of the hymn? Or the Methodist version of the hymn's orchestration? (Hartley and several band members were devout Methodists.)
FWIW, I am an atheist, and if I heard someone playing that dirge while I was dying I think I'd climb out of my death bed and send him to Hell a minute or so ahead of me. (Yes, I recognize the contradiction.)
That would probably be a Geneva or Vienna convention violation.
So my pet theory and Mayer's dossiad confirms it that deripasha used the dossier to get back at manafort, feeding him his contacts like Walkman and the guy that got close to skripal.
There's always "The sky is falling!"
And here's the story of the man you called "bullshit" on, Althouse. As a man literally washed off the ship as it sank, he'd be in a good position to know what was going on as it was going down.
Keep in mind that you have to see the event through the eyes of people four generations ago, including their belief systems. Intellectually, you already know this, and if asked the question on an exam you'd get it right or mostly right. But he wasn't a man born in the second half of the twentieth century; he was born in the nineteenth century and died of complications from the hypothermia he suffered in the first part of the twentieth, and one should judge his comments in light of his times.
Jimmy and Hollywood should realize that preaching at regular people that thing shouldn't be done except for when you are influential in Hollywood or politics is why fewer viewers watch. Last I heard, they want Polanski to be allowed to collect his Oscar and receive adulation.
ziggy socky ziggy socky my ass.
Jersey Fled said...I propose that all women who ever had sex with Jimmie Kimmel immediately start talking about it.
--
With carrot metrics..
Trump told the wealthy members of Mar-a-Lago, his Florida country club, that they all just got "a lot richer" from his Christmas 2017 Tax Cut. That is when he fully became a notorious robber-baron president. He lied that he was for the little guy. May that lie lodge in his throat gagging him until he is dead. His nasty tweeting won't save his presidency; it is a failed, unsalvageable presidency.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-mar-a-lago-christmas-trip/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)
His top hat and monocle really cheese me off.
I hate it when he swims in his money pit.
That's not funny. Some people can't swim! How do you think they feel?
My grandmother had the book published soon after the Titanic sinking. I read it in the 70's. I don't remember about the music, and who knows if the book is accurate anyway. The newly married J J Astor IV is prominent for dying.
It's far too late to panic. The tax cuts surely killed off anyone who survived the fall of Net Neutrality.
I used to think that maybe we were living in a novel, but when it was Trump vs Clinton, I began to think we live in an allegory.
And. with the Clintons, it was never “You guys just got a lot richer,” it was always, “Me and Hillary and our close political allies just got a lot richer!” Ask Terry McAuliffe
Trumpit said... That is when he fully became a notorious robber-baron president. He lied that he was for the little guy. May that lie lodge in his throat gagging him until he is dead
--
Got tired of the Nazi label?
"Got tired of the Nazi label?"
The other one was that the big money guys like Warren Buffet and the Kochs - and the "Davos crowd" in fact - hated him because he was going to impoverish everyone, and that people should listen to the consensus of the billionaires.
The complaints, so many of them, are mutually exclusive.
Walter,
I'm tired of you. As far as labels go, if the shoe fits, wear it.
Trumpit
Jimmy used to be funny before he got successful. Only Carson could pull off the night show gig. Sad
Oh noes..Trumpit tired!
Guv Moonbeam "You're not the boss of me!"'s California is a lot like the titanic.
Party on!
Germans Have Word wrote:
"He had room to position himself as the non-PC late-night guy, but instead chose to swim the same waters as Stephen Colbert, Seth Myers, Trevor Noah, etc: all of these guys are trying to eat the same slice of pie."
I am not sure he had the room to do this- not on ABC, at least. Ultimately, he has to be approved by the management, and they don't strike me as the non-PC supporting type. I think Kimmel faced a decision- either get on the PC train, or lose his show regardless of the ratings.
"My grandmother had the book published soon after the Titanic sinking. I read it in the 70's."
I took my mother to see "Titanic" when it came out. She was 14 when it sank. She remembered it well.
She laughed at some of the scenes, especially the sex scene in the car.
Her sister was engaged to a young man whose parents, Anglican High Church, did not want him marrying a Catholic girl. They took him to England on the theory that he would forget her or meet someone else.
They were booked on the Titanic to return but got bumped.
walter: "Oh noes..Trumpit tired!"
Trumpit is lots of ways taarrrrrreeeedddddd......
Beloved Commenter AConfusedMan:
Douthat and Frum...
Lol.
Some at NR...
Lol (2).
You've become very confused and disoriented by the politics of the last ten years or so, haven't you?
Maybe you'd be better off sitting down and clarifying your own views to yourself (with some attempt at dispassion and self-analysis), instead of idiotically waving around the opinions of controlled-opposition palace-scribblers. Come back and complain about Althouse's lack of seriousness when you yourself can do better than copy-pasting and cat-lady snark.
Walter Lord, doyen of Titanic historians, had issues with the truth. See for example his treatment of Major Archibald Butt.
As for other unresolved Titanic mysteries, people still cannot decide whether 1st Officer William Murdoch did or did not shoot himself in plain sight.
It's been over a hundred years since the Titanic hit that iceberg.
And yet, to this very day, the ship's swimming pool is still full.
@Angle-Dyne, ARM:
Douthat and Frum...
It is always funny to see a progressive try to influence conservatives with those two names.
May that lie lodge in his throat gagging him until he is dead
Yesterday Trump voters were the same as the guards at Auschwitz, today it’s more violent imagery. Trumpit, take a breath and think if this is the person you want to be.
Beloved is an idiot who thinks that the only valid ideas are written in the New York Times, the Washington Post, or the Economist. He has plenty of opportunity to open dialogues here with Trump supporters, but he steadfastly refuses, instead announcing it loudly every time he spots another squirrel on his feeder, which is probably DemocraticUnderground.
The bitching about Douthat is completely misplaced. He is, at worst, neutral on the establishment versus Trump axis. Although not a fan of Trump he hates the establishment.
Frum is certainly anti-Trump, but he makes his case rationally. I don't agree with all of it. People at NR and RedState make good arguments on occasion, I certainly don't dismiss them out of hand because of who they are. The left has often been hysterical, but as others have pointed out that is par for the course (not Trump's par).
Personally I don't take Trump very seriously. It is difficult to pin down any policy position with which to take issue. To paraphrase, if you don't like the opinion of Trump now, just wait a few minutes.
His personal 'issues' are a source of amusement for most of the country. To not find these funny is to acknowledge your own humorlessness, on this topic at least.
As far as labels go, if the shoe fits, wear it.
Is it a shoe or a label?
Can't be both.
Douthat isn't bad, but he still doesn't get Trump.
Frum is so lost, he needs a compass.
Beloved ARM, you certainly don't value the opinions of those two, you're just playing gotcha. Tell us who your "go to" guy or gal is for punditry. Mine was the Great William F. Buckley. Now, it's probably Victor Davis Hanson.
Later ARM: "The bitching about Douthat is completely misplaced."
Note to self: proper categorization and assessment of pundits, based on their actual content and output, is now defined as "bitching".
Good to know.
Earlier ARM: "If Althouse took Trump as seriously as she pretends to do in her response to my post she would not be pandering to the punters here with diversionary puff pieces but instead providing a genuine, thoughtful critique of Trump's presidency."
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa, there big fella.
Stop your bitching about Althouse!
ARM: "His personal 'issues' are a source of amusement for most of the country."
According to the lefties, "most of the country" is long dead.
Bay Area Guy said...
Tell us who your "go to" guy or gal is for punditry.
There is no one commentator that I agree with on a regular basis, just as there is no current politician I particularly admire. I read RedState most days. I like that they have a broad diversity of opinion. Most weeks I read Douthat, Noonan and Dowd. These three are entertaining writers, in general. I find most other columnists unreadable. I used to read pretty much everyone in the WSJ out of habit but stopped buying the paper recently. I did not find a single one of those columnists memorable other than Noonan. I read Andrew Sullivan and 538 once a week, again largely out of habit. I have a subscription to the Economist. I avoid all the conspiracy theorists as best I can. I can't stand Krugman and never read him or pretty much anyone else in the Times other than the aforementioned Douthat and Dowd. I do have a subscription to the Times because I think we should support the news gathering organizations. I listen to NPR on my brief commute. I like All things Considered about the half the time and like Kai Ryssdal most of the time.
After writing this I realized that the only person I actually look forward to hearing is Ryssdal so I looked him up.
"Before his career in broadcasting, Kai spent eight years in the United States Navy, flying from the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt, and later worked with the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon. He also served in the United States Foreign Service, with postings to Ottawa, Canada, and Beijing. Kai is a graduate of Emory and Georgetown universities."
Bay Area Guy said...
Douthat isn't bad, but he still doesn't get Trump.
He doesn't 'get' anyone who isn't a Catholic, the one true path. And, he doesn't like most of them either. He is the rare 'out' misanthrope.
ARM: "After writing this I realized that the only person I actually look forward to hearing is Ryssdal so I looked him up."
Kai is an interesting fellow.
Of course the band of HMS Titanic played 'Nearer my God to Thee.' I heard it in a song sung in College.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
I avoid all the conspiracy theorists as best I can.
Hilarious coming from a peddler of Russian collusion garbage.
Every single person you listed is a conspiracy theorist. There is not a single piece of evidence that Trump colluded with Russia but you idiots have been hanging on that conspiracy and trying to start a coup over it.
Right now conspiracy theorist is anyone ARM disagrees with. That is why everyone thinks you are a clown.
Achilles, everyone thinks you are a clown.
Several problems with this post.
First, not a peddler of Russian collusion. I have an open mind. Not impossible, but probably not that stupid. It was stupid to allow even the hint of openness to collusion as Jr did, since the issue will never go away now.
Second, no, not everyone I listed is a conspiracy theorist. In fact none have opined on Trump and the Russians in a way that would lead you to believe that they think he did it. Not even Sullivan seems to believe this, although that could change.
She was 14 when it sank
So was my grandmother, less one month. She was my youngest grandparent by 8 years, but you must be old as the hills or a very late baby.
I remember when douthat had a blog at the Atlantic, I commented on it, till a toothy troll derailed it, even back in the late aughts, he wee missing the point, although not as much at Matt 'land bridge yglesias.
>you must be old as the hills or a very late baby.
By my reckoning, Dr. K was born around 1940, making his mother about 42. My mother was 39 when I was born and 44 when my youngest sister was born. That's how they ran on the South Side of Chicago in those days.
--gpm
Whaddya know, he can engage. After all of these months and years, too. Still shuts his ears to known facts regarding the Clintons, but whatever.
Remember when Beloved was badgering Althouse to stop writing about powerful Democrat Harvey Weinstein, but now that it’s Republicans in the crosshairs, it’s all go on this kind of nonsense. I guess it’s only reasonable!
ARM: " It was stupid to allow even the hint of openness to collusion as Jr did, since the issue will never go away now."
LOL
There is only one party that colluded with the Russians to gather Putin-approved disinformation and then use that disinformation in the campaign...and its your team.
And now, what's this?
The FBI Field Office in Arkansas is investigating the Clinton Foundation?
My my. Not to worry. If no crimes were committed I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.
And what's that? AG Sessions says that a seasoned, NOT FROM THE DC OFFICE, Dept of Justice prosecutor has been investigating all things FISA Abuse by obama/Clinton/dems?
And what's that? This prosecutor has been "on the job" working in parallel with IG Horowitz since the middle of last year?
Well well.
And what's that? Priestap, Strzok, Page, Bruce and Nellie Ohr ALL have quotes included in the Republican Memo yet, oddly (...not!), NONE of those individuals have been interviewed by any of the Senate OR House committee's investigating Russian interference/collusion so....
....wait for it.......
...where did those quotes come from?
Gee, it's almost as if a prosecutor empowered to force testimony must have sat those corrupt democrat abusers of power down and explained the "facts of life" to them to get those quotes which were included in the Republican memo.
And there have been no leaks pertaining to those individuals.......
And that Flynn sentencing doesn't really appear to be going anywhere.....(now that the case has been reassigned to a judge who personally already cited the Comey Leaker Brigade for shenanigans some time back.)
And that Manafort fellow doesn't seem too intimidated by Muellers Crew of Democrat Hacks, does he?
And why is Carter Page walking around free as a bird with no indictments or even accusations after years of complete electronic surveillance initiated by the Clinton/DNC/Putin oppo research hit piece? It's almost as if all those warrants to spy on Page were simply a means to spy on the Trump campaign....
And what's that? After publicly saying she had no idea at all about any of this unpleasant "unmasking", our dear dear Susan Rice has testified under oath that she did indeed unmask Trump campaign and family members. I wonder what "triggered" her memory?.....
Hmmmmmmmmmm......
BCARM: The bitching about Douthat is completely misplaced. He is, at worst, neutral on the establishment versus Trump axis. Although not a fan of Trump he hates the establishment.
Lol.
Seriously, what is your problem here? You seem to believe that there is some pundit/publication-centered orthodoxy to which all anti-progs must adhere, or...or what? "Douthat occupies this niche in professional-opinionator-land, therefore merely invoking his name or gesturing at his general stance constitutes meaningful commentary." Argument from authority is silly enough, but insisting that some column-writer with a "professional conservative-thinker" imprimatur from the MSM is that authority is really bizarre.
If you think Douthat has written a compelling critique of something or other, then bring it up and engage in the "serious" discussion you pretend to care about, instead of the catlady gossip you actually deliver.
Frum, RedState, and the general run of NR writers have all earned the contempt that's directed at them. If you think any of the above have made a sound argument about something in particular, you're welcome to attempt to rehabilitate them with a *serious discussion* on that point. Invoking their names as if they're the tribunes of "real conservatism" to which all non-progs must genuflect, or at least take seriously, will of course get you laughed at.
We have public intellectuals, always have. They are not going anywhere. You can ignore them if you choose but to dismiss the lot of them as not the 'right sort' is childish. They reflect a broad swathe of opinion in the country. Maybe not all of it, but certainly quite a bit of it.
I do in fact regularly link to the people I read. They are invariably dismissed by the same non-critique that you are attempting - not our sort of people.
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