January 2, 2018

"One lady said, 'Louis C.K. masturbated in front of me, ruined my comedy dreams,' Word? Well then I dare say, madam, you may have never had a dream."

"Come on man, that's a brittle spirit. That is a brittle-ass spirit, that is too much, this grown-ass woman... Show business is just harder than that... I know that sounds fucked up, I'm not supposed to say that, but one of these ladies was like, 'Louis C.K .was masturbating while I was on the phone with him.' Bitch, you don't know how to hang up a phone? How the fuck are you going to survive in show business if this is an actual obstacle to your dreams?"

So says Dave Chappelle in his new comedy special.

68 comments:

mockturtle said...

I should think it would have given her more material.

Lyssa said...

To be fair, I'm not really sure that anyone claimed that her dreams or career or whatever were ruined over this. I could be wrong; I haven't followed it very closely, but I would caution against interpreting someone saying "This happened, and it was wrong and messed up" with claiming that it was something that they couldn't deal with or that it ruined them.

Gahrie said...

He's Black, Black trumps female...he'll get away with this.

You really want women to get offended by a Black man...go look at the lyrics of the average rap album.

dreams said...

Dave Chappelle will have to be destroyed so that he can learn and ultimately apologize for his insensitive comment. His blackness doesn't trump woman, hear me roar.

rhhardin said...

The original narrative is playing to women, who enjoy it. This guy is playing to men, who mostly think those women are nuts, a point of view that so far has not shown up in the MSM.

cubanbob said...

The lady in question is no Mrs. Maisel. As Mockturtle said, plenty more material to work with.

David said...

"How the fuck are you going to survive in show business if this is an actual obstacle to your dreams?"

Or anywhere else for that matter.

JohnJMac862 said...

DC has more courage than the next 20 trendy comedians put together.

David said...

The world is not a safe space. Deal with it.

Comanche Voter said...

Hey you look at Louis CK--and you are a female. And there is a lot of potential comedy gold in that scene--short round, short stroke, teeny weeny---I mean, go on. Mock what you saw.

But then if you can't figure out how to turn lemons into comedy lemonade, then maybe a career in comedy is not for you. Suck it up buttercup and get on with your life.

EDH said...

'Louis C.K .was masturbating while I was on the phone with him.'

Heck, how many of us Althouse commenters aren't masturbating right now?

Come on, raise your other hand.

GRW3 said...

On his TV show, Dave Chappell played a blind, orphaned black man who was head of the local KKK because he was so charismatic. I don't think he really knows boundaries.

Curious George said...

Honey, it was JUST a dream.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Gahrie said...
He's Black, Black trumps female...he'll get away with this."

Doesn't seem to have been true of Travis Smiley, however.

MountainMan said...

"On his TV show, Dave Chappell played a blind, orphaned black man who was head of the local KKK because he was so charismatic. I don't think he really knows boundaries."

The "Clayton Bigsby" routine he did on his Comedy Central show. You can watch it at the link below, starting around the 12:00 mark. Funniest thing ever shown on TV.

http://www.cc.com/episodes/9l1jqa/chappelle-s-show-popcopy---clayton-bigsby-season-1-ep-101

I enjoyed his New Year's Eve show on Netflix until he got to the Trump bashing at the end. It was pretty funny up until that point, then just became a political rant.

holdfast said...

Also the Racial Draft. Damn that was funny, especially the Tiger Woods bit in retrospect.

ALP said...

Dayum mockturtle - right out of the gate with a comment almost as good as anything Chapelle would say.

Bay Area Guy said...

Chappelle kinda sorta has a point.

At some point, the offended parties have to stand tall AT THE TIME OF THE OFFENSE and confront the offensive dude. If he's wacking off, then slap him in the face or break out the Iphone and tell him you're videotaping, or something else.

Freeman Hunt said...

He's not wrong. There are hardly any businesses more competitive than show business. (The only one that comes to mind immediately is professional sports.) And not only is it highly competitive, but it's full of jerks and liars. You have to be up for that.

(I know I'm not.)

Otto said...

The real question is how many women did Chappell masturbate in front of. Sick and tired of celebrities spouting morality or how to behave.

BillyTalley said...

This, from a guy who was famously and celebratedly brittle when hard assed show business dicks were messing with him. Perhaps he is the only one who could respond this way. (And being black has little to do with this capacity. Ask Bill Cosby.)

Ken B said...

EDH
I need both hands.

tcrosse said...

IF Dave Chappelle were to be destroyed for anything, it would be for
this Very NSFW.

Nonapod said...

Showbiz is full of sex perverts and narcissists. If you choose entertainment as a career path, you can't be surprised or shocked by the occasional horrible behavior of some of its denizens. This should be the boilerplate message delivered by high school guidance counselors. This is by no means an attempt to excuse bad behavior - such behavior should always be called out, mocked, punished, and otherwise discouraged. But it should be obvious that an occupation that is so dependent on things like appearance, image, superficiality, and being really good at pretending to be someone else would attract people who are obsessed with image and are liars and pretenders.

Amexpat said...

He's not wrong. There are hardly any businesses more competitive than show business

He's more correct when talking about doing stand up comedy. There may be some sensitive souls that can be fine actors or singers, but you need a very thick skin to do stand up comedy.

glenn said...

When Ailes and O’Rieley were getting keelhauled it was all dancing around the Maypole and cheering the womenfolk on. How things have changed.

Robert Cook said...

"'Heck, how many of us Althouse commenters aren't masturbating right now?'

"Come on, raise your other hand."


I would, but both my hands are occupied...

...typing.

CJinPA said...

I think Louis CK will begin his return this year, slowly, with some written pieces. Then, one of the late night talk shows will put him on, where he will be very contrite. And a few jokes. He'll be doing standup again by 2019.

I do think he was an arrogant perv masturbating in front of women, simply because he could. He needed to be humbled. But his fan base is still there, and he knows how to play to it.

Gk1 said...

Comedians can often get away saying things because society expects them to be outrageous. Chris Rock has made a career saying similar things counter to the liberal zeitgeist and has flourished. It will be interesting to see if the SJW wing of the DNC will swing into action and expect a contrition tour from Dave.

jr565 said...

It may be innapopropriate or not (I have no idea what the context was. Were they being flirtatious or did he just start wanking right in the middle of the convo". Regardless, it's not something that will scar you for life.
I'm reminded of the scene in high anxiety when Mel brooks calls Madeline Kahn and right when he's about to start talking the assasin breaks the window of the telephone booth and starts choking brooks. And she think it's a crank caller who is Moaning while jerking off on the other line. And he tries to say something and she hears the word "jeans". And starts asking him what he means and is getting off on the whole conversation.
Point being, it's a phone call. If someone is jerking off on the other line you could get offended, you could hang up, or you coud get off on it. But if you are offended, hang up the phone.its not a reason to not go into comedy if that's your dream. I'd think part of ck's shtick is getting a reaction out of ppl. So if he can do it while also getting offsexually I'd think it would be a common tactic for him. Not saying it's right, in just saying that's kind of what he does when he writes jokes.so why wouldn't he act similarly in his personal communication. If you don't like it, lay down the ground rules.

It alsogives me an idea for tactics to use if I get any telemarketing calls. I'll go along with them a bit then say something like "so, uh..... what are you wearing? That sounds hot. Don't mind me.... " unzip my pants. "So give me the pitch. And make sure to spare no details. Oh yeah... oh yeah" see how long it takes for him to hang up while I'm pretending to jerk off.

If such a call caused someone who was a telemarketer to rethink his dreams of being a telemarketer all the better.but I'd think having to deal with crank calls or responses would go with the territory.

n.n said...

There's gold in them dreams. Comedy gold.

walter said...

MountainMan said...I enjoyed his New Year's Eve show on Netflix until he got to the Trump bashing at the end.
--
If being black isn't enough protection, a little insurance policy...

tcrosse said...

Louis CK will get lots of material out of this episode, which might make it uncomfortable for the woman who squealed on him.

walter said...

jr,
Maybe Louis was trying to open a particularly stubborn jar of mayo.
LCK: Hmmmppppphhh.
Her: Uh..Louis?
LCK: Hmmmmmppph.. I'm listening.

MikeD said...

This is why 21st Century comedy isn't funny!

Leslie Graves said...

I'm reading "Gone with the Wind" for the first time. Scarlett O'Hara would not have been deterred from pursuing her career by Louis C.K. On the other hand, in her thought processes as relayed to us by the narrator, she perceives that she is quite different from nearly everyone else, and certainly nearly all women. (She does have a good sense of smell but based on one of the earlier posts from today, Margaret Mitchell might have made a mistake there.)

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
robother said...

I shudder to think how many comedienne's careers would've been ruined if Louis CK had been around in the days of vaudeville. Sophie Tucker, Mae West. Luckily, there were only perfect gentlemen in show biz in those days, so their tender sensibilities were spared.

n.n said...

21st Century comedy isn't funny

Indeed.

In the 20th century, he had a dream, that, one day, people would be judged by the "content of their character" (e.g. principles). Hilarious! Who would think to recognize individual dignity and not paint in broad, sweeping strokes.

In the trans-21st century, his dream was deprecated, and a new dreamer proffered diversity, where people would suffer discrimination based on the color of their skin, their sex, etc. It was punch-drunk humor. Some people laughed. I guess there is a market.

William said...

You can justifiably claim that the reactions of some of these women were over the top. However, it should be borne in mind that the act of masturbating in front of a woman who's a relative stranger is also a tad over the top. One should have sufficient acquaintance with the woman involved to know that she will not react inappropriately to a wank session. You have to be picky and selective about the women you masturbate in front of, Only jerk off in front of old friends with balanced judgment. Louis CK brought the crazy into these relationships. Some of the women may have topped him, but it's his own damn fault.

chuck said...

> ...typing.

You know what Freud said about typing ...

mockturtle said...

Leslie Graves observes: I'm reading "Gone with the Wind" for the first time. Scarlett O'Hara would not have been deterred from pursuing her career by Louis C.K. On the other hand, in her thought processes as relayed to us by the narrator, she perceives that she is quite different from nearly everyone else, and certainly nearly all women. (She does have a good sense of smell but based on one of the earlier posts from today, Margaret Mitchell might have made a mistake there.)

As a young teen I read GWTW no fewer than five times. Scarlett was probably a sociopath but nevertheless was a survivor who took what measures were needed to save Tara and support what remained of her family. She was a 'doer', Ashley and Melanie, 'dreamers'. I spent agonizing soul-searching sessions wondering whether I was more like Scarlett or more like Melanie. [As it turned out, neither].

n.n said...

Girls were traditionally made of tougher sugar, and spice, and everything nice. Today, they are just mean girls with a cause and another cause and another... next day; first, second, and third trimester; ten, twenty, and thirty years in a political pretext. There is a progression of female (and male) chauvinist pigs, but also ladies (and gentlemen), too.

walter said...

"21st Century comedy isn't funny"
Gotta get out more.
Sad.

Biff said...

The commonality between Dave Chapelle and Chris Rock (and Donald Trump) is that they simply don't accept the guilt that the politically correct mobs want to push on them. If you attempt to shame them, and they will get in your face. Plus, they have the resources to absorb temporary setbacks, aka "F* you money."

walter said...

I mean..unless you think Gaffigan an Regan are signs of end times, maybe a narrower brush is more appropriate.

The Vault Dweller said...

Louis C.K.'s story always seemed the least troublesome to get upset about. Obviously his behavior was unacceptable, but if he is masturbating on the phone with you, you can just click END, event over. If he masturbates in front of you, exclaim, "What the fuck are you doing!?" I bet he would have stopped. If he didn't just stand up and walk out. With Weintein's masturbation story, he appeared to have cornered a woman in a hallway, so I can understand why she felt she couldn't do anything. People have to be expected to take minimal action to help and take care of themselves before society gets all up in arms about anything.

eddie willers said...

Gahrie said...
He's Black, Black trumps female...he'll get away with this.

You really want women to get offended by a Black man...go look at the lyrics of the average rap album.

1/2/18, 11:18 AM
dreams said...
Dave Chappelle will have to be destroyed so that he can learn and ultimately apologize for his insensitive comment. His blackness doesn't trump woman, hear me roar.


Gentlemen. Go to your corners and come out fighting.

walter said...

They're in the same corner.
Maybe they'd fist bump.

Leslie Graves said...

I don't think it's that easy for all folks to say "stop it" when something unexpected and bad happens in their vicinity or is directed at them. Trauma researchers have done a ton of research on this. Some people just freeze in these circumstances.

This is pure pop psychology but Gretchen Rubin maintains that people show up in one of four quadrants on her "four tendencies" rubric. One of the tendencies is "obliger". Obligers just tend to go along and it takes them awhile to think, "Why the hell am I doing this thing?" If you're one of the commenters above who think, "Gee, why don't these women just walk out or hang up, for crying out loud", you are probably not an obliger.

https://gretchenrubin.com/2015/01/ta-da-the-launch-of-my-quiz-on-the-four-tendencies-learn-about-yourself/

AlbertAnonymous said...

Ken B:

You need one hand to hold the tweezers and the other to hold the magnifying glass?

mockturtle said...

The Vault Dweller suggests: If he masturbates in front of you, exclaim, "What the fuck are you doing!?"

Better yet, point and laugh hysterically.

walter said...

Leslie,
Not sure how that rubric handles delayed reactions.
Like agreeing, staying, giggling..then later feeling victimized.
There's also the issue of experiencing this alone vs with another.

Leslie Graves said...

In general, I am a delayed reaction person, and I'm also an obliger. The two categories don't completely map onto each other but there's some overlap (in me, anyway).

When something startling or surprising or unexpected happens in my environment, I don't manifest a visible negative or adverse reaction when it happens. This is not specific to unexpected sexual conduct (or sexually bullying or harrassment or whatnot). It is the way I am in general around unexpected negative events. There are people who flee, and people who fight and people who freeze. I'm a freezer.

Freezing, in the way I am describing it, is different than exhibiting a positive receptiveness to the sexual overture (agreeing, staying, giggling). I definitely wouldn't be doing any of those things. But I would say that in a majority of cases of delayed reaction, we're talking about freezers like me...not people who indicated positive receptivity and then changed their mind later.

If you read through the different descriptions of how different women managed being on the receiving end of a Harvey Weinstein overture, some women immediately rebelled and sought to flee, and generally managed to do that. I would not have been one of those women. I would have been frozen.

Ann Althouse said...

@Leslie Graves Thanks for pointing me to that test. I normally won't give my email address to get the results but I respected the test enough to go against my usual rule. My result was:

"According to your answers, your dominant Tendency is Questioner.

"Questioners question all expectations, and will meet an expectation only if they believe it’s justified, so in effect, they meet only inner expectations.

"Once Questioners believe that a particular habit is worthwhile, they’ll stick to it—but only if they’re satisfied about the habit’s soundness and usefulness. They resist anything arbitrary or ineffective; they accept direction only from people they respect.

"Questioners may exhaust themselves (and other people) with their relentless questioning, and they sometimes find it hard to act without perfect information.

"If you’re thinking, “Well, right now I question the validity of the Four Tendencies framework,” yep, you’re probably a Questioner!"

tcrosse said...

It was almost more interesting to see the tendencies other than my dominant one, which came as no surprise.

Ralph L said...

Jeez, how did I miss a masturbation thread?

mockturtle said...

I just took the quiz and my dominant tendency was 'Rebel'. That surprised me, as I consider myself pretty conservative but it's true I'm not much influenced by others.

tcrosse said...

Jeez, how did I miss a masturbation thread?
Beats me.

tcrosse said...

Jeez, how did I miss a masturbation thread?

Beats me

Leslie Graves said...

@Althouse I'm married to a Questioner, who interrogates things like "What, really, do the campaign finance laws actually say" and he also interrogates me if I ask him to pick up three things from the grocery store as to why I think we need those things.

I wonder what Meade is.

The book Gretchen Rubin published in September 2017 that is on the topic of these four tendencies says that Obligers and Rebels sometimes or often wish that they were upholders or questioners, while upholders and questioners tend to love what they are. It is true of me that being an obliger seems like a burden and yet, there it is.

In the book, Gretchen Rubin maintains that although questioners love to ask questions, they don't like it all that much when they are asked questions.

Mark said...

Dave Chappelle, keeping it real.

eddie willers said...

I came up "Questioner".

And there ain't no doubt about that!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

"The Vault Dweller suggests: If he masturbates in front of you, exclaim, "What the fuck are you doing!?"

Better yet, point and laugh hysterically.


That only works if his endowment is objectively unimpressive.

gurugeorge said...

Please place your bets ladies and gentlemen! Will blackness triumph over vagina possession, or vice-versa?

autothreads said...

Louis CK brought the crazy into these relationships. Some of the women may have topped him, but it's his own damn fault.

You think Louis CK is a bottom? I dunno. He jokes about being a chronic masturbator, not about taking strapons.

Bryan Lovely said...

I got "Rebel" on the quiz, but I think mostly because the quiz doesn't control for ADHD -- my tendency to follow up on commitments to others is pretty much borked by my inability to remember things that aren't immediately interesting or focus-worthy (like my job, fortunately). "Questioner" sounds much more appropriate to my general attitude toward expectations, authority, etc.

Meade said...

"I wonder what Meade is. "

Rebel.