July 31, 2017

"Breaking story after story, two great American newspapers, The New York Times and The Washington Post, are resurgent, with record readerships."

"One has greater global reach and fifth-generation family ownership; the other has Jeff Bezos as its deep-pocketed proprietor and a technological advantage. Both, however, still face an existential foe."

James Warren (in Vanity Fair).

What's the "existential foe"?
But an existential threat is... many Americans won’t believe a thing either newspaper says, no matter how great the accuracy, attention to detail, or fair-mindedness. The sharp uptick in Times and Post readership may obscure a larger cultural change. The unequivocal evidence* of Russian involvement in the presidential campaign exemplifies the state of play. In June, a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll showed that more than half of those surveyed believe that the Russians interfered in the presidential election, with about one-third believing it influenced the outcome, and more Americans buying Comey’s explanation of his dismissal than Trump’s. But half think the press has been overly dramatic and irresponsible in its Russia-related coverage, with two-thirds of Republicans simply not believing that the Russians interfered at all, despite evidence assessed by four different U.S. intelligence services. Dig deeper and you find that, while 89 percent of Democrats believe in the importance of the media’s “watchdog” role, only 42 percent of Republicans do, according to the Pew Research Center. It is the widest gap that Pew has ever seen. What’s astonishing is that in early 2016, according to Pew, Democrats and Republicans essentially agreed on the role of the press, with Republicans (77 percent) actually outpacing Democrats (74 percent) in their support.
No link to that Pew poll. I'm not "astonished" by the degradation in confidence over that short period of time, because you're comparing the idea of "the role of the press" to our response to a particular performance in that role.  If you polled people about whether Hamlet is a great role and got almost everyone to say yes and then, a year later, a movie came out with Adam Sandler as Hamlet and a poll showed very few people considered it a great performance, it wouldn't mean that respect for the role of Hamlet had plummeted in that time period.
__________________

* What "unequivocal evidence"?! Or... oh, well, I guess I'm the existential foe, an American who's not believing what you say. But my skepticism isn't insensitive to accuracy, attention to detail, and fair-mindedness. I'm looking at your words, what they mean, what evidence you proffer, and trying to put it all together and see if it adds up. I notice where you slide along and I stop and ask why you're doing that. Yet I'm the foe. Or a subpart of The Foe which is the agglomeration of suspicious Americans like me.

147 comments:

David Begley said...

Ann: Please forward your 6:44 am post to Mr. James Warren of Vanity Fair. Maybe he will respond like Linda Greenhouse.

Fernandinande said...

record readerships

I might believe that if he'd provided some evidence.

Disclaimer: I'm not going to wade thru that rambling tripe, so F3 for "readship".

Big Mike said...

I had never seen hard core leftism relabeled as "fair mindedness" before. That's a new one.

David Begley said...

The facts are that someone posing as the Russians hacked John Podesta's email. But for Podesta's mind-numbing stupidity, they would have remained secret.

The DNC emails told us little that we didn't already know. It influenced ZERO votes. Hillary lost three key states because she was lazy, stupid and had no message.

Sebastian said...

"no matter how great the accuracy, attention to detail, or fair-mindedness" On the big issues of the day, the only question is whether the MSM are liars or bullshitters.

Original Mike said...

Fair-mindedness, my ass.

I linked to this in the earlier post. It's relevant here, too:

One year later, journalists exposed by Wikileaks carry on as before.

These "fair-minded" journalists were running their stories past the Democrats before publishing them, for crying out loud.

Dude1394 said...

I expect many like myself instinctively do not believe a word out of the democrat media. As Dr. Reynolds says, think of them as democrat operatives and you will understand all.

Because that is what they are, democrat operatives.

Titus said...

The Times is my bible and everyone else I know loves The Times.

I don't know anyone that voted for Trump, except the things who comment here.

tits.

Paddy O said...

Perfect analogy.

I'm one of those who was okay with a Trump presidency in part because it would mean the press would be watchdogs again.

Unfortunately, they showed they won't live up to the important role they have. The resurgence of popularity combined with untrustworthiness reflects the fact they've all tabloid all the time. It's the existential reality of the National Enquirer too.

This isn't new, it's really just exposing what's always been there: yellow journalism has always driven the media.

Fortunately, freedom of the press extends to all, and we're not dependent on corporations for information.

Chris N said...

I, too, know a lot of people who write in journals.

Birkel said...

If the NYT and WaPo are increasing skepticism of TPB, they are serving a vital role.

Rick said...

no matter how great the accuracy, attention to detail, or fair-mindedness.

Delusional. The NYT treatment of the Awan case proved yet again they're nothing more than the Democratic Party newsletter.

traditionalguy said...

I forget which one of those formerly Great Newspapers is run by the CIA now, and the other one by the NSA. Or do all 17 run them both?

The Media Narrative word du jour is "chaos." supposedly removing a RINO used to get Health Care Reform passed in Congress after that fails is called chaos.

But there are suddenly zero Russia and Trump Collusion stories. The Media are in lock down on that Myth because of the potential it will lead back to the DNC's and Obama's traitorous acts. The whiplash has stunned the talking heads.

rhhardin said...

I notice where you slide along and I stop and ask why

In spite of the metaphor I think it's a "try and" hendiadys thing.

"Stop to ask" would be the subordination.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Americans did not need Russian hackers to tell us that hillay clinton and her wassermans are corrupt money grubbing liars.

Fabi said...

Record readership likely includes online views. Not sure that's something they should brag about when the Times continues its buyouts. Those fancy newspaper people think they're so smart, but they haven't successfully monetized their industry's shift away from print; each relying on a sugar daddy to stay afloat.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Vanity Fair is leftwing garbage - for leftwing hollwyood a-ho.

rhhardin said...

The press's failure isn't at its job, which is to stay in business, which can't be in hard news. It has to be soap opera.

The existential threat is that the reputation for seriousess will fail too generally and even soap opera people will tune it out and go back to As the World Turns. There's no frisson of seriousness they can take for themselves any longer.

jwl said...

I am Canadian who reads a lot of American news and I think there is more evidence that Democrats colluded with Russia than there is about any collusion with Trump. Intelligence agencies have never been given hard drives to study - they were just given a report from third party connected to Democrat party. And there is lots of interesting stories emerging about sketchy Fusion GPS practices.

I didn't read the article, just blurb provided, but does James Warren ever write about why Republicans think the way they do? I find lots of these articles are about crazy right wingers and what they believe now but author never trouble themself to really look into they issue.

rhhardin said...

Clinton fails the Wasserman test.

rhhardin said...

Somebody mentioned that there are too many Russian links to Trump for it to be true. An actual collusion would be kept quiet by the Russians.

Darrell said...

Their resurgence probably explains why they are laying off employees like editors. Wait. What?

Looks like the Left has found a way to manipulate all ratings, not just polls. Let's see the profit reports--where you go to jail for cooking the books--before we believe anything that comes out of the Media.

Nonapod said...

It never ceases to amaze me how many left wing journalists can be so deeply ignorant that they actually believe that they're being fair and objective. I mean, they must believe it, otherwise why do they act so surprised when they find out that people don't trust them? What's the point? If they actually understood how deeply biased they are, there wouldn't be articles like this, would there?

Ann Althouse said...

Titus said: "I don't know anyone that voted for Trump, except the things who comment here. tits."

Have you read the new David Sedaris book? I thought of you when I read this

"January 29, 1990 Chicago/I’m trying to replace the kitchen faucet for Shirley’s tenants and wound up going to the hardware store with a guy named Jack, a carpenter who’d come to give an estimate on the new closets.... Jack uses the word tits to mean great. The hotel in Hawaii was tits. That red Camaro is tits. Replacing the valves beneath the sink was not tits. I stood and looked down at him on his back, his big belly exposed, while he cursed. In his own way, he’s a nice-looking man. In the late afternoon, we made a second trip to the hardware store. Jack honked at shapely women as we passed them. “Hey,” he’d yell, “turn around, you stuck-up bitch.” He wasn’t what you’d call the silent type, not at all, and he charges $ 20 an hour." Sedaris, David. Theft by Finding: Diaries (1977-2002) (Kindle Locations 2935-2939). Little, Brown and Company. Kindle Edition.

antiphone said...

It weren't no Hilroy Clinton, them wassermans was workin for Trump!

Fabi said...

Unequivocal evidence of which not one single piece has been presented. Maybe we'll receive the very first piece of this evidence if the DNC ever allows the F.B.I. to examine its servers.

[Stylized as F.B.I. because that's one of the few things about the Times I truly enjoy -- they punctuate their acronyms.]

James K said...

If the NYT and WaPo are really doing better, it's by abandoning journalism for fantasy-based emotional support for all those traumatized by the election of Trump. It's the equivalent of pornography.

Fernandinande said...

F3 for "readship".

Readership! I spelled it right when searching the text, which mentions current readership but not previous readership.

Fabi said...
Record readership likely includes online views.


If so, why doesn't the article say so? And if so, how do you know it's not RUSSIANS upping the page-view counts with bots pretending to look at web pages? (Just kidding. Maybe.)

Why do you believe what the guy wrote?

Chuck said...

"Adam Sandler as Hamlet" seems to me to be a great comparison to "Donald Trump as President." Brava, Althouse!

Kevin said...

"Both, however, still face an existential foe."

The truth.

Kevin said...

"The hotel in Hawaii was tits. That red Camaro is tits. Replacing the valves beneath the sink was not tits."

My people!

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Yes, yes, fair-mindedness. That's definitely been on display for the last 8.5 years and evident to an increasing degree since President Trump's election. "Fair-mindedness."
Look, when the people in charge at the WashPo and NYTimes come out and say that they're covering things in "a new way" and that traditional neutrality and objectivity in their news presentation has to be cast aside, it's just plain silly to pretend like that's not happening. They're admitting it--they're proud of it!
Fair-mindedness is the opposite of what these folks are embracing. Maybe that sells more papers (to a given audience, I suppose) and maybe you think that's a good thing, but when you argue that those Media outlets are examples of fair-mindedness you've shown you're not telling the truth and the rest of your argument can be safely ignored.

Sebastian said...

Just as an example of their accuracy and fair-mindedness, already referred to in a previous post/thread but sorta illustrative: here's Nicholas Fandos, reporting on the DWS scandal for the NYT:

"For months, conservative news outlets have built a case . . . To hear some commentators tell it . . . It helped that the story seems to involve, if only tangentially, Debbie . . . President Trump gave an added boost . . ." Paragraph 12 starts: "Some basic facts appear to be clear . . ."

holdfast said...

"despite evidence assessed by four different U.S. intelligence services."

I thought it was 17 intelligence services? What happened to the other 13?

I mean, I was SURE that Coast Guard Intelligence had a fresh and incisive view into the Russian hacking thing.

Angel-Dyne said...

antiphone: It weren't no Hilroy Clinton, them wassermans was workin for Trump!

Bit early in the day for drunk-posting, isn't it?

holdfast said...

And of course one of those "agencies" is the office of the Director of National Intelligence - a holding company or coordination office, if you will - one that does not develop its own data or analyses - just coordinates those of others.

tcrosse said...

You can't spell 'Titus' without 'tits'

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Yeah, Sebastian; that "if only tangentially" is one for the ages.
When people tell me there's no such thing as the Media and that even if there were it's populated by hardworking professionals who try their darndest to be fair and get the facts right I'm going to remember that "if only tangentially" and laugh, laugh, laugh.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

...while 89 percent of Democrats believe in the importance of the media’s “watchdog” role, only 42 percent of Republicans do...

If you believe in the importance of the media's "watchdog" role, your only choice is to vote Republican. The only time they make any attempt to perform that role is when a Republican is in office.

traditionalguy said...

Fairmindedness in Media comes directly from the Edward R. Murrow radio days in 1930-40s London when American Network media was all Isolationists or Pro German ( because Stalin was then pro German).

Murrow just reported the facts like Joe Friday. He had to use a fair-minded approach. And Americans ate it up. That became the trope used by all American Network News until 1968 when Cronkite briefly broke with LBJ's FUBAR War after Tet.

But the last twenty years of Journolist success as a tactic has seen extermination Fair-ness in Media, although they still assert a confirmation bias about it for whatever effect it has among the retarded.

Gordon said...

No one who voted for Trump has the slightest concern about anything printed in the Carlos Slim blog or the Jeff Bezos blog. Oh, a while back, in January, or February, they might have. But now? Those two sources are irrelevant, for Trump folks.

Oddly, it may be that the Carlos Slim blog matters to Trump, some, and his mouthpiece Mooch. They live in that town, and both seem to crave at least some approval.

Paul Zrimsek said...

I absolutely believe in the media's watchdog role. Assuming that by "watchdog" you mean those things that bark if there's a mailman, bark if there's a random guy walking down the street, bark if there's a bird, and bark if there's another dog barking.

mockturtle said...

If, in fact, this is so then it merely exemplifies the intellectual decline of our nation.

mockturtle said...

Paul Zrimsek suggests: I absolutely believe in the media's watchdog role. Assuming that by "watchdog" you mean those things that bark if there's a mailman, bark if there's a random guy walking down the street, bark if there's a bird, and bark if there's another dog barking.

Or just because it likes the sound of its own bark.

Dave D said...

Ann:

Titus personally attacks nearly everyone who posts here and you give him a reasonable, personal response. I'm flummoxed......

Mike said...

I admire the gonads they have in the use of "unequivocal evidence" (i.e. "leaving no doubt, unambiguous") as if any evidence has been produced to support their hysteria! Like Ronald Reagan said, "it's not that the left doesn't know things it's just that what they know is wrong!"

And they build on this mis-knowledge to create huge mass-hallucinations on the subject. Warren should take a look at the latest Dem congressional PAC poll, which found 61% disapproval for Democrats and 52% approval for Trump among blue-collar white voters in the states they need to carry next year. They've lost the middle class and working Americans. But they've got their new Russian myth to latch onto up until the day they realize every single sentient American has figured out it was Democrats who were in a gibbering love affair with Putin and Russia and the whole shitshow they're selling is a lie. .

Sam L. said...

I was not polled in early '16, but I can't believe 77% of GOP voters believed the NYT and WaPo were legitimate news reporters after 8 years of W and 8 more years of O.
Doesn't pass the smell test.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

The story is the arrest of this guy who worked in a very sensitive position for a number of Dem legislators. He and a number of members of his family drew high salaries (higher than normal for their positions) and engaged in some...sketchy behavior. They were under criminal investigation and most were fired, but not the one guy working for DWS. She didn't fire him until he was arrested at the airport (leaving the country, naturally).
No one has given any explanation as to why these people were hired, were paid much more than normal, nor, importantly, why DWS kept this guy on even after the others were fired.
But according to the fair-minded NYTimes the story involves DWS "only tangentially."
Funny stuff.

Francisco D said...

I would like to see a comprehensive breakdown of the numbers before I consider the NYT or WaPo "resurgent. Otherwise, this is yet another example of their penchant for fake news.

Marty Keller said...

I was watching PBS and Fox News coverage of the November election recently and noticed that all of the talking head commenters, stunned by what was unfolding before their eyes, asserted that an "earthquake" was rumbling through American politics, and that the media, all which they admitted got it wrong, would now have to focus on understanding the actual nature of what was happening.

Since then? Crickets. Business as usual.

And thank God we can always count on Comrade LLR to hijack a thread to preen with his usual anti-Trump projections.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Dave D said... Ann:
Titus personally attacks nearly everyone who posts here and you give him a reasonable, personal response. I'm flummoxed......


Nah, it's cool, he's one of those fabulous flaming types, so the normal rules of decorum and behavior don't apply to him. He can call people "things" and it's cute.
If he were a real person--someone you'd treat as a normal human being--that'd be "ugly." But come on, chillax bro, it's just Titus!

Fabi said...

Not necessarily saying I believe it, Fernandinande -- merely advancing it for argument's sake.

mockturtle said...

Dave D complains: Titus personally attacks nearly everyone who posts here and you give him a reasonable, personal response. I'm flummoxed......

Well, you see, Titus is a gay male therefore, you know,...special.

Fabi said...

Titus has a very active fantasy "life", Dave D -- few believe anything he says.

Birkel said...

If the NYT and WaPo are resurgent then one should expect their ad rate increases to outpace some benchark: inflation, industry standard, etc.

Numbers that are harder to bull shit because customers have a cause of action for fraud if there is lying. Without numbers, we should assume lying.

Paco Wové said...

"What "unequivocal evidence"?!"

That issue is CLOSED, Althouse. CLOSED. It must NEVER BE QUESTIONED AGAIN.

Mike said...

Francisco D said...
I would like to see a comprehensive breakdown of the numbers before I consider the NYT or WaPo "resurgent. Otherwise, this is yet another example of their penchant for fake news.


For example, let's take the number of editors working at the NYT. Has there been a recent layoff or buyout of these positions? Oh lookie here: They just did that again! It is the sixth time since 2008 that the company has offered newsroom buyouts. Some employees were laid off in 2014 when The Times did not receive enough buyout volunteers.

Resurgent indeed! They are so wildly successful they keep having to reduce their payroll!

Left Bank of the Charles said...

It's a race to the bottom, but Trump has already one the race.

DanTheMan said...

Existential Foe: The rabble who won't do as we tell them to.

Ann Althouse said...

"Titus personally attacks nearly everyone who posts here and you give him a reasonable, personal response. I'm flummoxed......"

Well, since you used my favorite word ("flummox") I will give you a personal response: Titus is funny and interesting. He brings a different point of view, and he's been writing in the comments for well over a decade. He's one of the old-timers here, and even though there are many familiar commenters, few go back all the way. He's probably the first commenter to establish himself as a larger-than-life creation and to use the opportunity to blog-comment to develop an original, memorable style.

What you're seeing as a personal attack on everybody is, to my ear, charming hyperbole. And we need more liberal voices (especially liberal voices who are not simply delivering shared talking points). I'm extremely supportive of the commenters who use the comments section for creative writing. That includes relative newcomers like Laslo and the greatest of all the commenters, rhhardin.

Kevin said...

...while 89 percent of Democrats believe in the importance of the media’s “watchdog” role

That's about the same percentage who believe the Obama Administration was "scandal free".

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Drudge gives WaPo a lot of traffic.

Static Ping said...

Adam Sandler as Hamlet? Oh, heck yeah. Train wrecks like that do not happen every day!

While we are on the subject, the Arnold Schwarzengger Hamlet "trailer" from Last Action Hero is amusing and probably the best part of the movie. Of course, Ahnold performing the entire play would probably be embarrassing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z9Ismh1elM

traditionalguy said...

Titus is always interesting. And he does not attack other commenters. So I am thankful to hear his Boston point of view. Where else can you get that?

Unknown said...

Hmm, the "larger than life" commentators, eh?

Titus is the flaming gay male ballerina stereotype; rrhardin is the misogynist ogre, Laslo.... is Laslo. Chuck is the insane Republican who wants Democrats to overthrow the government because of some personal vendetta against Trump. Garage Mahal was always the snot-nosed liberal teenager who knew everything but it was always 100% wrong. Not sure if that was due to being a liberal or being a teenager though. Fen is the guy who would ask you if you've baited that bear trap with a "Free copy of 'How Marx predicted Trump' to attract liberals to their death".

To the extent I have a persona, I suppose it's one of "the idiot who can't figure out Blogger."

--Vance

Ignorance is Bliss said...

I'm extremely supportive of the commenters who use the comments section for creative writing. That includes relative newcomers like Laslo and the greatest of all the commenters, rhhardin.

I'm flummoxed that my commenting didn't garner a mention.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

traditionalguy said...

So I am thankful to hear his Boston point of view. Where else can you get that?

Boston?

And, unfortunately these days, more and more of southern NH.

Birkel said...

Layoffs do not tell the story.

If news is deliver packaged by political operative there is little need of employees.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I love Titus too. He's original, hilarious, and always entertaining.

Earnest Prole said...

Here’s the most shocking statistic, according to Gallup: forty years ago nearly three-quarters of Americans trusted the media "to report the news fully, accurately and fairly,”; now it’s fewer than than a third. And that poll was taken before the 2016 election!

Imagine this kind of failure in any other industry -- for example, if fewer than a third of Americans believed airlines would get them to their destinations safely.

David Begley said...

Paco

Not only is the case CLOSED, the science is SETTLED.

Appeal to authority logical fallacy.

Hagar said...

I do not understand all this poll taking.
There may or may not be sentient life elsewhere in the universe, but either way we will never know and whether x% of Americans believe there is or isn't, is irrelevant.

rehajm said...

So I am thankful to hear his Boston point of view.

Cambridge actually. A distinction without a difference to the rest of the nation, perhaps but still.

Drago said...

Titus is Huggy Bear to Althouse/Meade's Starsky & Hutch.

Titus is not really central to the plot line but he is there to provide "color" and every now again some brief, very brief, substantive detail.

I'm sure Laslo has about a hundred literary/cinematic analogies for Titus. Laslo sure nailed Chuck's character:

Laslo: "From his earlier post, we see that Chuck commands a Grand Stage. I do not mean this facetiously: he obviously puts steadfast thought into his comments, and displays a depth of knowledge that can be quite impressive

Yet he is disliked by many here, and responds like the proverbial bull to any and all flags. He is proud of his staunch values, and finds those who fall short worthy of rebuke. Then, for me, it finally clicked:

Chuck is Inspector Javert, and Trump is his Jean Valjean.

The figurative Bread that Trump stole was the Republican Nomination.

HE WILL NOT LET TRUMP GET AWAY WITH THIS.

Hugo's work is a weighty beast, so I'll cheat and go to a song lyric from the "Les Miserables" musical:

Damned if I'll live in the debt of a thief!
Damned if I'll yield at the end of the chase.
I am the law and the law is not mocked
I'll spit his pity right back in his face
There is nothing on earth that we share
It is either Valjean or Javert!

Sound familiar?

Javert is the 'Real Republican' in a time of tumult. Rules are changing, but Javert is steadfast, unyielding -- BREAD HAS BEEN STOLEN -- for a thousand-plus pages or so. Until:

"...Javert's struggle to accept the ways in which the laws he spent his life upholding may be unjust is what leads to his eventual suicide..." (from Wiki)

Bread for thought.

I am Laslo.

3/23/17, 9:45 PM"

rehajm said...

Did they bury a quantitative definition of 'resurgence' somewhere within the essay? Resurgence is a weasel word.

MikeR said...

'Damage has been done. When the Times publishes an entire page of “Trump’s Lies”—the result of meticulous research and editing—you’d hope it would move the needle.' The article does not in any way acknowledge that the people who don't trust the Times and Wapo are doing so for a reason. "Trump's Lies". What about stories that were completely skewed and twisted by these old-time media sources? Are you guys aware that the more you fixate on Trump, the more we can see that your filters are not ours, and that we just can't trust your judgment on anything at all?

Dave D said...

Thanks for clarifying all!

Lesson learned:
Be entertaining/interesting and you can get away with a LOT around here.

One thing I am finding out around here is that, in addition to WAY too many topics to cover and digest, I simply am not here enough to get a feel for the regulars. For example, I am still amazed that Laslo is so well tolerated and thought he was a long term poster, not a newcomer.

James Pawlak said...

If, and only if, the report about increased readership is true, then it may well be from a morbid attention to a "death watch".

Crazy Jane said...

East Coast echo chambers.

Ralph L said...

Clinton fails the Wasserman test.
A pox on both Clintons.

Titus must be over the gay hill by now. Can he still get hot brown men?

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I like iowahawk's take on the media. Its job is to cover stories, with a pillow, until they stop moving.

Achilles said...

Blogger Paul Zrimsek said...
"I absolutely believe in the media's watchdog role. Assuming that by "watchdog" you mean those things that bark if there's a mailman, bark if there's a random guy walking down the street, bark if there's a bird, and bark if there's another dog barking."

They bark because their owners tell them to bark.

antiphone said...

Are you guys aware that the more you fixate on Trump, the more we can see that your filters are not ours, and that we just can't trust your judgment on anything at all?

Beleive me, I'd never say this in front of my liberal friends but at least you know where Trump stands. He's a straight shooter.

Trust me now?

Ralph L said...

I am still amazed that Laslo is so well tolerated
You have to Relax to take him.

Bruce Hayden said...

Titus is one of the bigger than life characters here at Althouse. Supposedly grew up in WI, before escaping to more gay hospitable locations, I think most recntlly, Cambridge/Boston (for the real world, a distinction without a difference). Married, for a bit, maybe, to an Indian dude. Earns a lot of money as a consultant, drives a BMW, and screws more in a week than most get in a lifetime. He is such a flamer that he is entertaining.

The other part of this, that Ann didn't mention, is that she is a notorious homophile (gayphile?). Women seem to like gays, and esp flaming gays like Titus, better than straight men do. My memory though is that Ann may have personal/family reasons to be more sympathetic to gays than most. And, it is her blog...

Meade said...

"They bark because their owners tell them to bark."

What dog owners tell their dogs: QUIT THAT BARKING! QUIT THAT BARKING!

What dogs hear: BLAH BLAH BARK BLAH! BLAH BLAH BARK BLAH!

Fabi said...

Thanks for reposting that Laslo gem, Drago. I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I missed a single one of his comments.

Angel-Dyne said...

AA: He's probably the first commenter to establish himself as a larger-than-life creation and to use the opportunity to blog-comment to develop an original, memorable style.

Original? Always came across to me as that negative-stereotype gay-cartoon-brought-to-life we've all met somewhere along the line. Puerile, snide, arrested-development degenerate. I've met Titus a few times over the years. Unpleasant gits in RL, but don't know why it's skin off anybody's back on somebody else's blog.

Seriously, I don't get the eternal "teacher, why do you let that naughty Jimmy post and not Johnny?" complaints. Because it's her blog. Because she said so, that's why.

...and the greatest of all the commenters, rhhardin.

Our tastes concur here.

Bruce Hayden said...

@Dave. - Titus hasn't been around that much recently, so don't beat yourself up over it. Several years ago, we would get story after story about his rare clumer (whatever that is), fabulous boyfriends, and sexual conquests. And all the problems of being Fabulous.

But entertaining is good. The problem is that it is hard. Most of us don't have the flair that Titus or, more recently, Laslo, do. If you stick to the topic at hand, you will be fine. Plus Ann doesn't like personal attacks, though knowing the regulars, sometimes it is hard (for example "lifetime Republican" means Chuck, which is used sarcastically, given his attacks on Trump, and Pussy Hat or Crazy Cat Lady means Inga).

Drago said...

antiphone: "Beleive me, I'd never say this in front of my liberal friends...."

Perhaps you'd care to expand on that a bit more.

Achilles said...

Blogger Meade said...

"What dog owners tell their dogs: QUIT THAT BARKING! QUIT THAT BARKING!

What dogs hear: BLAH BLAH BARK BLAH! BLAH BLAH BARK BLAH!"

They also catch names:

BLAH TRUMP BARK BLAH TRUMP BARK BLAH TRUMP BARK.

Fabi said...

This ties in nicely --

https://amgreatness.com/2017/07/30/pakistani-hackers-working-dnc/

exiledonmainstreet said...

"I'm sure Laslo has about a hundred literary/cinematic analogies for Titus"

Laslo parodied Titus a couple of times and Titus complimented him.

So a parody critiqued a parody. That entertained me.

Jeff Weimer said...

That they're covering the President with a, shall we say, skeptical eye?

Great. Wish we could have had that for the previous 8 years.

That they largely *ignore* (or downplay) problems connected to the Democratic party like the Awan issue? That's a problem. And both of those newspapers are visibly absent from investigating that.

If they want to be considered serious, they need to be less partisan; otherwise "Democrat operatives with bylines" becomes less a complaint and more a truth.

Sebastian said...

"lifetime Republican" Correction: "lifelong Republican." LLR for short. Get your epithets straight. Not that I would stoop to use it myself (well, maybe once or twice), being an obedient commentator and all.

Bruce Hayden said...

I love how they intone about all (actually only 4) of the Obama appointment run intelligence agencies, during the last month of a heated election determined that the DNC was hacked by the Russians (supposedly to aid Trump over Obama's picked successor, Crooked Hillary), based on the Russian "signature" found in the hacked emails, despite the CIA, one of those intelligence agencies, having been shown to use hacking tools that intentionally leave those identical Russian hacking "signatures" in order to shift the blame for their own hacking to the Kremlin. All without actually seeing, touching, or having physical access to the hacked servers, instead, having to depend on the word of a DNC hired IT firm. This is they reality that they intone about, and expect everyone to accept as the gospel truth. And never mind about the dump of the CIA hacking tools, death of Seth Rich, or later analysts determining, from time stamps, that the download from the server was much to fast to have been over the Internet, and that the hackers/leakers were most likely located in the Eastern time zone (such as where the servers were actually located). Nothing there. Everyone knows that it was the Russians to aid Trump. Ignore to guy behind the curtain.

Fernandinande said...

Always came across to me as that negative-stereotype gay-cartoon-brought-to-life we've all met somewhere along the line.

So you're not a fag hag? Shocked! On some occasions when I accidentally read a Titus post I can almost feel my skin crawl.

rhhardin's great, don't read Laslo if the post is longer than a couple of sentences.

Hagar said...

"There is not much Izvestia in the Pravda and not much Pravda in the Izvestia."

Henry said...

The newspapers face not an existential threat, but an existentialist threat:

From Wikipedia:

In the view of the existentialist, the individual's starting point is characterized by what has been called "the existential attitude", or a sense of disorientation, confusion, or dread in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world.

285exp said...

Sam L: "but I can't believe 77% of GOP voters believed the NYT and WaPo were legitimate news reporters after 8 years of W and 8 more years of O."

They only polled life long Republicans.

Tommy Duncan said...

97% of the coastal elites think the media is fair-minded. This is settled journalism.

Rick said...

Bruce,

It's a twist on Dunning-Kruger. They think they're telling everyone how rock solid the evidence. But evidence is generally not relevant in politics because it is driven by opinion or preference. Since all these people have ever cared about is politics their understand of evidence is limited what works for them. Meanwhile those who do understand evidence are concluding their standards are so low their process is better described as speculation than evidence.

eric said...

That includes relative newcomers like Laslo

Are you certain?

I always thought he was Betamax reimagined.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Always came across to me as that negative-stereotype gay-cartoon-brought-to-life we've all met somewhere along the line."

Titus sounds like every gay hair stylist I've ever met.

Ray said...

On what dogs hear, classic farside:

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/47/153603564_7281ad0588.jpg

Comanche Voter said...

None so blind as they who will not see. Show me some "accuracy, attention to detail and fairmindedness" on any page of the New York Times or the Washington Post, and I might use the paper for something other than a fish wrapper. Until that happens, the NYT belongs either on the bottom of the bird cage, or next to the table where I clean and gut fish. That is its highest and best use. Now if I were resident in Russia, Pravda would take over similar chores.

Jack Wayne said...

Dave D, Lazlo knows that Betamax3000 is a commenter here (or was) so that's pretty long term.

David Smith said...

I delivered the WaPo every morning from 1958 to 1962 and thought of it as "my newspaper" although my folks subscribed to both it and the Evening Star. I left town after High School (1965) and left the the US (1972) and when I moved back to the US and Maryland in '84 I started seeing "I don't believe the Washington Post" bumper stickers. After I got caught up I understood why, realized that it hadn't been that reliable source when I was a kid, and have wanted one of those bumper stickers ever since.

Ray said...

Keywords on the NY Times profitability..

>another steep drop in advertising revenue was largely offset by aggressive cost-cutting
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/business/media/24times.html?_r=1&ref=business

Translation:
- Click on advertising is down. P&G just cut their online advertising 30% with no negative impact.

- Print advertising is still shrinking.


Lewis Wetzel said...

". . . no matter how great the accuracy, attention to detail, or fair-mindedness."
So newspapers believe that they, and not their readers, are capable of judging whether or not they exhibit "accuracy, attention to detail, and fair-mindedness"?
This is an extraordinary level of delusion by people of mediocre intellect who wish, more than anything else, to sell advertisements.

hstad said...

This entire piece is "AA's" love affair with the NY Times and possibly the WAPO - written like a liberals wet dream? Yet not a piece of evidence presented to verify the headline. Hey AA, try this:

https://theawl.com/a-graphic-history-of-newspaper-circulation-over-the-last-two-decades-1cc151281e

What I find interesting is that the NY Post had the same circulation from 20 years ago - so they essentially won the NYC battle of the Tabloids. Both the NY Times and WAPO have collapsed in circulation. But the best liner is "the horror show of the LA Times - LOL.

Roy Lofquist said...

Dear Ms. Althouse,

As a professor of law I am puzzled as to why you didn't cite:

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus is a Latin phrase meaning "false in one thing, false in everything." At common law, it is the legal principle that a witness who testifies falsely about one matter is not credible to testify about any matter.

Hagar said...

The Albuquerque Journal, the last remaining newspaper in Albuquerque, has so little content anymore that the only reason for subscribing is the comics. There has been several "farewell" articles by oldtime reporters with no mention of new hires. I share it with my neighbor, and most days it is so light that if I pitch it high over the fence, it may stall out and float sideways into her flowers.

antiphone said...

antiphone: "Beleive me, I'd never say this in front of my liberal friends...."

...Perhaps you'd care to expand on that a bit more.


When Joe Scarborough sang "What's so Funny About Love and Understanding" on my TV I felt used.

Hagar said...

That light means it isn't carrying much ahvertisements either.

mockturtle said...

Laslo is a fucking genius!

Anthony said...

Blogger Nonapod said...
It never ceases to amaze me how many left wing journalists can be so deeply ignorant that they actually believe that they're being fair and objective. I mean, they must believe it, otherwise why do they act so surprised when they find out that people don't trust them? What's the point? If they actually understood how deeply biased they are, there wouldn't be articles like this, would there?


I often wonder this. Are they really that clueless? Or do they realize it and just assume their viewers/readers are too dumb to recognize it? I wish I could ask one.

Hagar said...

When Albuquerque was a small-town with 20-30,000 people, there were several papers in town. It is kind of remarkable that a metropolitan area of 750,000+ now is on the verge of not being able to support even one paper.

Stoutcat said...

Blogger Bruce Hayden said...
Several years ago, we would get story after story about his rare clumer (whatever that is)...

Dogs. Clumber spaniels. Large heavy droopy spaniels.

https://www.google.com/search?q=clumber+spaniel&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS750US750&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjo6ICQgrTVAhXFeSYKHQAdARcQ_AUICigB&biw=1536&bih=735#imgrc=vAhgvDaW0yI4AM:

AlbertAnonymous said...

Laslo rocks! Great comic relief.

But I miss "pony-tail swish" girl.

I saw a young lady the other day with a pony tail that was swishing so much Laslo's interpretation jumped into my head and all I could think of was

"I want an Audi"

Pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish

"and I have a great ass"

pony-tail swish, pony tail swish...

mockturtle said...

A.A., I miss several of Laslo's characters. Lamar was great, too, as was the guy who worked in the porn shop. Laslo has uncanny perception.

Bruce Hayden said...

"Dogs. Clumber spaniels. Large heavy droopy spaniels."

Thanks. Which probably means that I have little interest in them (given how fashionable they seem to be these days).

exiledonmainstreet said...

I like the rare clumber spaniel.

Sebastian said...

@hastad: more recent data here: http://www.journalism.org/fact-sheet/newspapers/. Circulation down, online subscriptions up, advertising income way down.

@nona: "It never ceases to amaze me how many left wing journalists can be so deeply ignorant that they actually believe that they're being fair and objective. I mean, they must believe it, otherwise why do they act so surprised when they find out that people don't trust them? What's the point? If they actually understood how deeply biased they are, there wouldn't be articles like this, would there?"

Don't be amazed. Progs think the structure of the real is progressive. Fair and accurate reporting confirms that it is so. Concretely, the GOP is evil and wants to kill millions, conservatives are anxious hillbillies fooled by Trump, the US is led by war criminals lording it over the rest of the world, Russia hacked the election as 17 intelligence agencies have confirmed, Muslim terror is due to Islamophobia and a few lone wolves, etc. Factual reporting merely shows that progs are in tune with the structure of the real. Using such reporting to advance prog causes is not to play politics but to march with History.

Fritz said...

exiledonmainstreet said...
"I'm sure Laslo has about a hundred literary/cinematic analogies for Titus"

Laslo parodied Titus a couple of times and Titus complimented him.

So a parody critiqued a parody. That entertained me.


When Weird Al asked Mark Knopfler if he could parody "MTV", Mark insisted on plying the guitar part.

hombre said...

Anthony wrote: "I often wonder this. Are (journalists) really that clueless? Or do they realize it and just assume their viewers/readers are too dumb to recognize it? I wish I could ask one."

Neither. They cater to forty percent of the population who rely on them and who think as they do: The ends justify the means. The truth is unimportant if calumny and lies promote the leftist cause. That doesn't mean these supporters aren't dumb. They are just tolerant of (Democrat) corruption.

Another forty percent don't rely on the leftmedia exclusively and "fact check" them using alternative sources. This group, accordingly, believes very little, if anything, from the leftmedia. They are not dumb, but some still have faith in the GOPe.

The remaining twenty percent are skeptical of the mediaswine, but hopeful that they are not corrupt. Or they just don't care. They can still be duped. It is this group the swamprats are hoping to swing to save them from Trump.

Ann Althouse said...

"While we are on the subject, the Arnold Schwarzengger Hamlet "trailer" from Last Action Hero is amusing and probably the best part of the movie. Of course, Ahnold performing the entire play would probably be embarrassing."

Thanks! I had never seen that. Great,

hombre said...

Other than his language, Titus is usually amusing; rarely offensive. I don't recall him attacking other commenters until today. I hope TDS hasn't got him.

FullMoon said...

"While we are on the subject, the Arnold Schwarzengger Hamlet "trailer" from Last Action Hero is amusing and probably the best part of the movie. Of course, Ahnold performing the entire play would probably be embarrassing."

(Joe)Weider brought Schwarzenegger to the US early in his career, where he helped train the future governor of California. Schwarzenegger also said Weider helped land him his first film role, in Hercules In New York, by passing him off to the producers as a German Shakespearean actor.

Joe Weider was interesting guy:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/joe-weider-bodybuilder-who-discovered-arnold-schwarzenegger-8547571.html

Titus said...

I am still getting hot hog Ralph, even at my advancing age! Last weekend I did a guy from Peru who was attending Lesley College, which is in Cambridge. I went to his dorm, which was weird, but his roommate was gone. I am always expecting them to reject me at the door but they let me in and begin to devour my hog. My body is tight-that is why, and i am pretty good looking. They call me handsome and that makes me feel old.

But I have pecs, abs and an ass you can bounce quarter off.

That was Friday.

Saturday I did a guy from Romania.

Grindr is my girlfriend.

Michael said...

Titus
A friend noted that he was almost 50 years old and thought about sex forty percent of the time. I consoled him. I am seventy and I am up to 90%.

mockturtle said...

Ah, but thinking about sex and having sex are two different things.

Titus said...

oh good-thanks Michael.

I take steroids (only a summer cycle of 12 weeks) so I am usually very horny, but no ball shrinkage or bacne. I really know where to find the muscle in my butt when I shoot up-true expert. Some of the guys at my gym have serious bacne but for some reason it doesn't really matter because there bodies are so fierce.

Earnest Prole said...

I am still getting hot hog Ralph, even at my advancing age!

Well how nice for you!

Michael said...

mockturtle
You are correct as to the general population but for the man in the arena....

Michael said...

titus
Roids will make your jaw look stupid

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Valentine Smith said...

Left propaganda networks circle the wagons against the savage deplorables. One lies and the others swear to it.

Mr. Fabulous said...

(World Famous Lurker says....)

Like Eric, I was under the impression that Laslo was the reincarnation of BetaMax 3000. About the time that BM3K's posts tailed off, we started to see some posts from Laslo. Both posters seem to have a writing style that they deliberately continued from post to post.

I've also wondered to myself if MB3K/Laslo and Titus, and perhaps others, were online parody personalities created by Meade.The Professor likes interesting commentators, and humor, and has publicly called for that from those posting here. I can imagine Meade stepping in to add the occasional humorous and interesting post to otherwise serious commentary. Nothing more than speculation on my part though.

SukieTawdry said...

If their readership is at record highs, then their advertising revenue must be at record highs as well. Right?

MaxedOutMama said...

One gets the feeling that the real journalistic meme of 2017 is that everything that is wrong with the country is caused by individuals such as Althouse.

It is not surprising that they are out of tune with the people. It's hard for me to understand how an industry that purports to be about discussing reality developed such a narrowly incestuous mindset. Intellectually, they remind me of that weird church of cousins that had the bizarre belief that everything that was wrong with the USA was due to gays and kept picketing servicemen's funerals.

hstad said...

Sebastian said...
@hastad: more recent data here: http://www.journalism.org/fact-sheet/newspapers/. Circulation down, online subscriptions up, advertising income way down.
12:49pm.

Thanks "Sebastian" am very familiar with the online numbers, which in my view is meaningless. Online equals $1 for every $25 in print. You have got to really generate a huge increase in online revenues to make up for the collapse in print revenues. That's why very few of these MSM players will survive over the long run regardless of what they do online. Moreover, quite a few major advertisers are now experimenting with dropping online advertising entirely. For example, ".....P&G Cuts More Than $100 Million in ‘Largely Ineffective’ Digital Ads....."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cuts-more-than-100-million-in-largely-ineffective-digital-ads-1501191104

MadisonMan said...

Bruce Hayden said (re: FABulous Clumbers)

given how fashionable they seem to be these days

Really? All I see around here are Golden Retrievers and Golden Doodles.

When I was in NYC last month I saw an Afghan. I remember how fashionable that dog breed was back in the 70s. This was the first I'd seen in decades! It had the silly haircut too.

Meade said...

"All I see around here are Golden Retrievers and Golden Doodles."

Obviously, you live on the golden side of the neighborhood. Over here we have hounds, mutts, cattle dogs, and beagles. All rejects, rescues, retirees, and rascals.

Meade said...

@Mr. Fabulous: Flattered by your suspicions. But I think my clowning style is more Red Skelton (I wish) than Charles Bukowski.

truth speaker said...

Althouse says:
""Titus personally attacks nearly everyone who posts here and you give him a reasonable, personal response. I'm flummoxed......"

Well, since you used my favorite word ("flummox") I will give you a personal response: Titus is funny and interesting. He brings a different point of view, and he's been writing in the comments for well over a decade. He's one of the old-timers here, and even though there are many familiar commenters, few go back all the way. He's probably the first commenter to establish himself as a larger-than-life creation and to use the opportunity to blog-comment to develop an original, memorable style.

What you're seeing as a personal attack on everybody is, to my ear, charming hyperbole. And we need more liberal voices (especially liberal voices who are not simply delivering shared talking points). I'm extremely supportive of the commenters who use the comments section for creative writing. That includes relative newcomers like Laslo and the greatest of all the commenters, rhhardin."

Which goes a loooong way in showing why you supported Obama. Not a shot at you, just an observation on your lack of intellectual consistency. You have standards but cut slack to the people least deserving of it. I'm flummoxed by this attitude.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Mr. Fabulous said...
(World Famous Lurker says....)
...I've also wondered to myself if MB3K/Laslo and Titus, and perhaps others, were online parody personalities created by Meade.
7/31/17, 2:57 PM

Sometimes I wonder if every person and every post in the comment section aren't really just characters created by Althouse to amuse herself, even you Mr. Fabulous- Even Meade! Then I think, what if I am a too? And so every now and then I pipe up, just to make sure there really is a me, and I'm not just the figment of a blogger's fancy. I comment, therefore I am.