"Citing no evidence" doesn't mean he has no evidence. What happens next?
Trump offered no citations nor did he point to any credible news report to back up his accusation, but he may have been referring to commentary on Breitbart and conservative talk radio suggesting that Obama and his administration used “police state” tactics last fall to monitor the Trump team. The Breitbart story, published Friday, has been circulating among Trump's senior staff, according to a White House official who described it as a useful catalogue of the Obama administration's activities.What's "credible news" these days? Maybe Trump is fighting fire with fire. The Russian business is a conspiracy theory so why not distract with a conspiracy theory on top of the conspiracy theory? There was a conspiracy to plant a conspiracy, etc. etc.
But Trump is accusing Obama of wiretapping his New York office. That's a very specific charge. Presumably Trump has high-level security within his homestead. Maybe something was detected. Here are Trump's tweets this morning:
1. "Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"
2. "Is it legal for a sitting President to be 'wire tapping' a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!"
3. "I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!"
4. "How low has President Obama gone to tapp* my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"
#3 feels vaguely like a threat to get a criminal investigation going against Obama. This is a big move by the art-of-the-deal master. Perhaps the goal is to get his attackers to stand down.
____________________
*"Tapp" would be a good name for an app.
ADDED: Meade is saying "You over-educated professional class elites, you don't understand TrumpTweet." Most important, he says, is that Trump put "wires tapped" and "wire tapping" in quotes and that misspelling "tapp" could have been intentional. Is it some figure of speech? Is there a special way of speaking within Twitter that the grownups don't understand?
Posts
365 comments:
1 – 200 of 365 Newer› Newest»"The Russian business is a conspiracy theory so why not distract with a conspiracy theory on top of the conspiracy theory?"
You really don't know that.
@Nyamujal
It's the seriousness of the charges, right?I
Hello, goose. Meet gander.
This is going to get hairy.
I see no reason to give undue weight to his tweets, whether it's about a TV show or anything else. As far as I can tell, his tweets are Trump acting not as an official president and representative of the nation, but as a private person.
I'll take it seriously if his administration releases an official statement.
At this point, I consider his tweet storms entertainment or red meat for the press. If they are about Trump, the private person, it's not really my business.
A good lawyer might also be able to make a case for defamation against Donald Trump, if "Obama" didn't actually "wiretap" Trump Tower.
Especially after President Trump "opens up" the libel laws .
http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-libel-laws-219866
Good for Trump.
Narrative displacement.
You thought the fake Russian problem was big, look at what NSA tells me about Obama.
"Bad (or sick) guy!"
The gloves are coming off.
No more feigned niceness, no more pretending there is honor, if differences, in Obama. The Unwritten Code of Conduct has been torn.
I believe this is a good thing. No illusions.
I don't think Obama has ever had someone come at him like Trump will.
Obama's pride will require him to not leave the rebukes to his people this time-- he will want to mix it up himself.
If you've never been in a street-fight you might want to think twice about getting into one.
I am Laslo.
Trump is your guy Ann. Good to see you doubling down.
Why won't Trump keep his promise and release his tax returns? Doesn't want the world to see he was bailed out by the Russian government?
It's a warning to Obama.
If you want to run a coup from your house in DC, here's what you'll be dealing with from me.
A special prosecutor for it would be entertaining.
Chuck, if BO wants to try libel laws, then he would be very open to discovery. That is a dead end.
I bet that the left will just make fun of Trump's spelling and disregard the meat of the tweets.
Nyamujal: "You really don't know that"
We know that a FISA warrant was sought by the obama admin in June and was denied. Why? What was the justification for that request? By whom?
We know that the FISA warrant was resubmitted in October and granted. What was altered/added/modified from the original June request? Was a different FISA judge sought? Did someone go "judge shopping"?
We know that obama, in the closing days of his administration, radically changed the rules for sharing of raw intel captured with US Citizens names NOT redacted to a much broader swath of intelligence agencies and personnel (from dozens into the hundreds) AND that a much broader swath of individuals would have access to US citizen names in the raw data (redaction would occur later in the "process")
We know that in the final months of the obama administration hundreds of obama loyalists were moved into "career" roles in key agencies which would ensure their continued presence and access to raw intel/data after Trump was inaugurated.
We know that obama, in the last week of his administration, quietly (very very quietly) altered the succession rules for which DOJ individual would be the next in line for determining whether or not any special prosecutor would be established and we know that the "new" guy identified as the "next in line" is a hardcore obama/Holder asset. Gee, that's sounds like something that happens everyday, doesn't it?
BTW, buried in Sessions recusal statement is the blurb that the succession for DOJ decision-making in the absence of the AG (for whatever reason, like recusal) is reverting back to Dana Boente, at least until Tuesday morning when the Senate will have it's hearing/vote on the new Trump guy for that role.
And we know that we have had unprecedented leaks and coordination between the IC and the NYT amongst others.
So I guess we'll just chalk up all these people, their actions and the timing of all this as "coincidence" and get back to our regularly scheduled Trump bashing, eh?
Not a chance. We are seeing, in real time, an attempted coup.
And that phrase is not used lightly. This is a coup attempt and we shall see what comes of it.
Sick and perverted liar Obama has been put out to pasture, but his legacy of destroying the American Republic rolls along inside DC. Soros's funds are there to pay for the riots and Valerie Jarret's Muslim connections are still there to be the key traitors.
But the real revelation from this series of attacks to destroy our President is how quickly the RINO GOP guys have all jumped ship and went over to helping destroy our President. The Bush Family retainers and Murdoch's Wall Street Journalistors are desperate to impeach the fearless new Andrew Jackson type American President before he destroys them and their New World Order.
No wonder DJT is busy sucking up to and surrounding himself with top American Military men. They will turn the tide.
The press is barking up the wrong tree when they say, "credible news reports." They are digging their own grave. This might be John Edwards or UVa all over again.
I am as turned off by Trump tweeting at 4am as the next person, but does the MSM really need to take the bait EVERY! SINGLE! time?
If he has nothing substantial to back it up, he looks stupid.
Hard to imagine a valid link between Obama personally and an order to wiretap.
I think the elite Obama team underestimated President Donald Trump. This is fun!!
FullMoon, he will also look unhinged. It will be further proof that we have a madman in the Oval Office.
It was reported back in November:
https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/
FullMoon:"If he has nothing substantial to back it up, he looks stupid."
The FISA warrants exist. What's in them?
FullMoon: "Hard to imagine a valid link between Obama personally and an order to wiretap"
Is this the part where we pretend all of obama's actions and those of his subordinates are completely unrelated?
Well, that's certainly an interesting standard.
FullMoon said...
If he has nothing substantial to back it up, he looks stupid.
Not sure this is true. People have started to take Trump's statements at a considerable discount. His biggest risk is that people start tuning him out completely because the value of what he says has become so discounted. Not sure he sees this risk.
Trump stands totally on the high ground here.
It is an information mismatch and that alone creates high ground in any negotiation.
Most of Trumps opponents don't know right now what he knows or has in terms of information.
And as Ann has alluded, any claim he has no evidence is solely at the claimamt's risk.
They don't really know what he has or doesn't have and they are not in a position to find out around him.
Obama is also in an inferior position because, though he may know the truth or falsity of Trump's assertion, (a) Obama is in the position of having to prove the negative, and (b) Obama no longer sits on the information repository, and his insiders can be detected and shielded off.
And Trump's assertions are very serious claims, or better said claims of a very serious nature.
This is a high stakes gambit.
But they haven't beat Trump yet, and he is now doubly empowered by the office.
I wouldn't bet against him on this.
First, people need to understand that Trump doesn't actually type the words. He writes it out and gives it to an aide to type into the computer.
Second, "wire tapp" is in quotes because it was probably a sophisticated form of electronic eavesdropping that includes not only "tapping" an analog telephone wire but includes other kinds of survaillence.
Third, remember when Trump said he loved the White House phones, he must love them even more now.
ARM: "Not sure this is true. People have started to take Trump's statements at a considerable discount. His biggest risk is that people start tuning him out completely because the value of what he says has become so discounted. Not sure he sees this risk."
People have started to take the Dems/MSM statements at a considerable discount. Their biggest risk is that people start tuning them out completely because the value of what they say has become so discounted. Not sure they see this risk.
After witnessing the Obama administration targeting Americans, and The New York Times and Washington Post colluding with the DNC, this is a plausible allegation. And as Obama and Clinton's cronies, and their JournoList affiliates, are progressively excised from the access to classified information, they will lose leverage to abort Trump's administration and to manipulate the American people.
The FBI was told to tap Trump's telephones in October during the campaign and they did so at Obama's order. They found nothing, and quit. But some inside Obama people kept the tapps going to pick up Kelley talking down Russia from WWIII after Sick Obama threw out their diplomats on Christmas eve just to stir up something. There was no way Trump would continue that, but there was hope Kelly would speak to the Russians about it like he did.
DJT has said many times the only issue is illegal leaks of inside classified telephone calls, I.e., wiretaps. So he knew they were doing it and he has just counter trapped them and their Sick Media Whores.
I've asked some of my conservative friends the following question and I haven't received a satisfactory answer yet: "Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?".
The only place where our interests align in with Russia is Syria, if and only if we are OK with Assad staying in power and with the Russians having access to the port in Tartus. On every other issue - Ukraine, arm exports, meddling in European affairs, and meddling in the affairs of post-Soviet Baltic states (many of which are free, independent, and Western in their outlook), the Russian's are our Adversary.
Economically, the Russian economy is comparable with that of Italy. It's a mafia state that relies heavily on natural resources and has a below replacement birthrate. Russian companies aren't lining up to do business with the US and unlike East and South Asia Russia doesn't have billions of potential consumers. So, what the fuck is our play here?
The only explanation that makes sense is the one outlined in a recent Atlantic article:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/its-putins-world/513848/.
Even if you don't believe that the Trump administration has been "Kompromat", there's a strong argument that Putin has become the ideological leader of post-2008 nationalist movements everywhere which is why Bannon and Trump see him as a natural ally. Only that explains the GOP switching its message from anti-Putin to pro-Putin in a single election cycle. Putin is a great threat to the post-cold war world order with the US at its helm and we'll pay dearly for aligning ourselves with him. Even if you don't believe the "conspiracy" theories about Trump-Putin, the foreign and economic policy implications of this shift should be greatly troubling...
So much for the pivot to "Presidential," which lasted a matter of hours.
Goodbye, to the Trump who momentarily looked like a President while he read, verbatim, from a teleprompter, and who got everyone from Chris Wallace to Chris Matthews praising him as someone who could fulfill the demands of the office.
Hello again, to the Reckless Twitter Trump.
From a strategic messaging standpoint, Trump should do two things:
1.) Connect any Obama dirty tricks against him as an extension of the DNC dirty tricks against Bernie Sanders during the Democratic primaries.
2.) Point out that any attempt by Russia to influence the election outcome was directed at marginalizing Hillary in favor of the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democrats.
As I've pointed out before, the January 6th Intelligence Report’s “Annex” contained -- but didn't connect the dots -- to its description of the RT “Strategic Messaging” campaign in furtherance of Russian government “interests in areas such as foreign and energy policy.”
The content of that Russian messaging is summarized in the report by several bullet points that together read like a Bernie Sanders stump speech:
Occupy Wall Street. "Information warfare aimed at promoting popular dissatisfaction with the US Government. RT created a Facebook app to connect Occupy Wall Street protesters via social media. In addition, RT featured its own hosts in Occupy rallies.”
Civil Liberties. The United States as a "surveillance state" with “widespread infringements of civil liberties, police brutality, and drone use.”
Economic Injustice. “RT has also focused on criticism of the US economic system, US currency policy, alleged Wall Street greed, and the US national debt. Some of RT's hosts have compared the United States to Imperial Rome and have predicted that government corruption and "corporate greed" will lead to US financial collapse.
Anti-Fracking. “RT runs anti-fracking programming, highlighting environmental issues and the impacts on public health. This is likely reflective of the Russian Government's concern about the impact of fracking and US natural gas production on the global energy market and the potential challenges to Gazprom's profitability.”
Non-Intervention. “RT is a leading media voice opposing Western intervention in the Syrian conflict and blaming the West for waging "information wars" against the Syrian Government. In an earlier example of RT's messaging in support of the Russian Government, during the Georgia-Russia military conflict the channel accused Georgians of killing civilians and organizing a genocide of the Ossetian people."
Does anyone doubt that Obama tried to put Trump under surveillance? Wasn't that the whole point of the charge he was helping the Russians?
It was all just an excuse.
BTW, LBJ had Nixon and Goldwater put under FBI surveillance in 1968 and 1960. Nixon and Goldwater knew it, but said nothing in public. FDR not only wiretapped Wilkie in 1940, he wiretapped every prominent member of "America First" and gave British Intelligence the go-ahead to put them under surveillance too.
I'm sure that some from the White House will expand on "Obama wiretapped Trump" over the Weekend.
Full Moon wrote:
"Hard to imagine a valid link between Obama personally and an order to wiretap"
There doesn't have to be a direct link to or order from Obama- if Trump's communications were tapped by anyone in the Obama Administration, this falls on Obama himself. You can't escape responsibility by laying it off on an underling of any kind.
Given that the Obama Administration did ask for and eventually receive a FISA warrant before the election, I don't think it completely out of the realm of possibility that communications were also tapped and recorded.
If Trump has actual documentation of this, he needs to release it immediately. It isn't impossible that he is waiting for an explicit denial first. However, it is also quite possible he is making the entire thing up, much like the Russian angle is being made up whole cloth by his enemies.
The Conservative Treehouse website has an interesting article titled "Occam’s Razor – Did NSA Admiral Mike Rogers Warn Trump On November 17th, 2016?"
The wire-tapping was approved in October 2016, and at about the same time top officials in the Intelligence Community (IC) tried unsuccessfully to remove from office Mike Rogers, the Director of the National Security Agency (NSA), which wire-taps in foreign countries.
After Trump won the election, Rogers traveled to New York City on November 17 and briefed Trump there. In the following days, Rogers' rivals in the IC again tried unsuccessfully to remove Rogers from his NSA position.
It seems that Rogers opposed the wire-tapping, which was supposed to find secret communications between Trump and Russian banks. Furthermore, Rogers perhaps warned Trump on November 17 that his financial communications with foreign banks were being wire-tapped.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/03/occams-razor-did-nsa-admiral-mike-rogers-warn-trump-on-november-17th-2016/
"Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?".
What the fuck does "cozying up to the Russians" mean? You mean not being unthinkingly hostile? Or not insulting Putin or acting like the Cold war is still going?
I can think of two reasons for not being overly-hostile to Russia? 1) They haven't done anything to threaten vital US interests and 2) they 10,000 nuclear warheads.
When I saw Nancy Pelosi demanding that Jeff Sessions be prosecuted for perjury, I thought: The Democrats are playing a dangerous game. Trump now was in his hands the law enforcement resources of the United States. Suppose he decides to fight fire with fire? I don't think the Democrats are holding the stronger hand here.
Poor Chuck. He hates it when Trump doesn't just sit back and take the standard Far left/MSM/"lifelong republican" lies lying down.
Remember, "lifelong republican" Chucks preferred tactic in dealing with the dems is pre-emptive surrender.
But "courageous" pre-emptive surrender, of course!
Carry on!
Apparently there is some truth behind this tweet. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/03/03/mark_levin_the_real_scandal_is_that_obama_spied_on_trump_during_2016_campaign.html0
There's no reason to believe Trump would just make the whole thing up. The Democrats can make stuff up because the MSM will run with their lies and never criticize the Democrats. With Trump its the opposite.
If anything, Trump is a very shitty communicator of ideas. Frequently relying on 140 characters to communicate with the American people doesn't help. Again, we have to spend a blog post and an otherwise beautiful Saturday morning divining the true meaning behind this outrageous accusation. He isn't playing 3-d chess. He's just a man with horrible impulse control. This gimmick won't work for long.
David Begley: "CNN was just now attacking the credibility of Fox News, Breitbarf and Mark Levin. Fox is way more credible than CNN"
Not surprising when you consider that CNN played such a heavy role in the "advertising" of the BuzzFeed BS "dossier" (oppo research) that so entranced the MSM/dems/"Lifelong republicans".
Nyamujal...You are new to reality. The memory hole has not swallowed the facts that since 1992, the non-Communist Russians have been our allies and only wanted to join NATO and help.
That ended when Obama and Clinton decide to remake who rules the middle east oil states from Tunesia across to Egypt and up to Syria. After the Russian interests in the Black Sea became threatened, the Russians drew a Red Line and have flat kept theirs.
Making that a domestic political drama over a bad Russia is an evil sham of reality that ignores Russia's bigger nuclear force than ours, thanks again to Sick Obama.
I see its now going to turn into the "Chuck and his friends" show.
Adios.
The real question is did Obama find out about the wiretapping by watching TV?
The named officials who tried to get NSA Director Mike Rogers fired were:
1) James Clapper, Director of National Intelligence
2) Ashton Carter, Secretary of Defense
Google "Trump misspellings" and you'll find he can't spell. But that's okay, neither can anyone else under the age of 71. Confusing "principle" and "principal", "its" and "it's", "tenant" and "tenet" (seen today in NYT), etc. is common. Standards are shot.
"The Russian business is a conspiracy theory so why not distract with a conspiracy theory on top of the conspiracy theory?"
"You really don't know that."
She certainly doesn't know that and one day she may be embarrassed by this ridiculous claim.
"Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?".
I'll give you my good reason on the above when you give me your good reason for why Obama said to Medveded to tell Vladimere to be patient because he'll have more flexibility after the mid-term election.
Ah ha. Unknown claims it is unknown. That means another special prosecutor...how many is that 10 or 12?
Nyamujal: "If anything, Trump is a very shitty communicator of ideas."
I'm not sure that the "real" issues to address right now are Trumps preferred method of communication (which the left hates since it bypasses their filter) or the long term implications of Trump/Russia foreign policy.
I can understand why a lefty would want that to be areas of focus right at the moment that it's becoming clear that the left is executing a coup attempt for the first time in our nations history. But I don't think anyone but the "lifelong republicans" will go along with such a rhetorical tactic.
Drago said... [hush][hide comment]
FullMoon:"If he has nothing substantial to back it up, he looks stupid."
The FISA warrants exist. What's in them?
Glad to hear that
FullMoon: "Hard to imagine a valid link between Obama personally and an order to wiretap"
Is this the part where we pretend all of obama's actions and those of his subordinates are completely unrelated?
Did Obama or any direct link order Lois Lerner in IRS to fuck with Tea Party applications, or did she do it on her own? Hopefully, this at least ends up with Obama having to claim over zealous administration people took it upon themselves. Best possible would be proof of a direct order from someone in Obamas inner circle passing down order.
It's too late the order exists.
So, The New York Times, Washington Post et al spin ever longer yarns to cover-up DNC and establishmnet corruption.
The Russian business is a cover-up of social justice wars including elective regime changes from Libya to Syria to Ukraine, extrajudicial trials and abortion fields, the ensuing catatrophic anthropogenic immigration reform (i.e. refugee crises) caused by Obama's delegation of responsibility, the progressive debt that destabilizes world economics, disenfranchisement of Americans through demographic redistricting, and, of course, selecting Russians to replace Jews as sacrificial lambs. He did try to influence the Israeli election, they did try to paint Jews as class diversitists, but fortunately they failed. At least while The New York Times, Washington Post et al are considered credible by the American public, Russians, Ukrainians, Syrians, Libyans, and Americans seem to be less fortunate.
If Obama got a FISA warrant to wire tap Trump's office, he had good reason to. The court allowed it once it was narrowed down. We don't know what was found, despite Trump's insane tweets.
Obama, as head of the executive and Commander in Chief, was not responsible for anything. At least that is the narrative spun through official and media outlets.
CNN was just now attacking the credibility of Fox News, Breitbart and Mark Levin. Fox is way more credible than CNN.
"Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?"
I notice your list of possibilities excludes Iran. The nation we are most likely to go to war with next is Iran. Iran's sponsor is Russia. Russia can veto any UN sanctions on Iran. Any further boycotts are more successful if Russia participates.
Trump doesn't want to start another war in the Middle East. Having Russia as a friend helps mitigate that possibility.
Occam's razor assumes we are not blinded to simple answers by our preference for more complicated ones.
So many rogue people doing so many rogue things and Obama never knew.
Tsk tsk.
Unknown: "If Obama got a FISA warrant to wire tap Trump's office, he had good reason to."
LOL
Yeah, it's beginning to look like you are going to have keep screaming this at the top of your lungs in order to deflect.
It won't work but it will be fun watching you continue.
BTW, Sessions is still AG. Didn't you say he would be out in 2 days? Well, it's been more than 2 days and here he is.
So much for your predictions.
JOKE: Did you hear the one where the moronic lefty blogger gives the AG 2 days before resignation?
The AG didn't resign in 2 days so the moronic lefty blogger gave him 2 more days!
Thats Henny Youngman level quality right there!
I vaguely remember the president gave a serious speech this week.
"CNN was just now attacking the credibility of Fox News, Breitbart and Mark Levin. Fox is way more credible than CNN."
Alternate universe.
Fact - Flynn was subjected to electronic surveillance
Fact - FBI says it has transcripts of communications by Sessions
Fact - "government sources," i.e. Obama holdovers have on multiple occasions publicly divulged the contents of telecommunications involving Trump himself and his campaign/administration.
Yes, this is Watergate redux.
ADDED: Meade is saying "You over-educated professional class elites, you don't understand TrumpTweet." Most important, he says, is that Trump put "wires tapped" and "wire tapping" in quotes and that misspelling "tapp" could have been intentional. Is it some figure of speech? Is there a special way of speaking within Twitter that the grownups don't understand?
I suppose that argument might work, for purposes of a debate between Sean Spicer and a hostile press. It would not work in a civil action for defamation. The commonly-understood meaning of "wire tap" or "wire tapp" or "wire-tap" are all the same. The New York penal code defines "wiretapping" and makes it a crime.
I'm not so sure anybody has mentioned it yet; if we make the (plausible, I submit) presumption that there was some form of FBI-requested/FISA-approved electronic surveillance within Trump Tower, and Trump has based his morning Tweets on that, has Donald J. Trump broken any laws by revealing the existence of same? Has Trump compromised information that was given to him in a classified briefing or other classified communication?
Unknown has no problem with every sitting president recording/wiretapping the competition.
Nixon did nothing wrong.
Short version.
Keep that rehab going, unknown!
You must be a history major.
You are clueless. Because you can't be old enuf to have lived thru that time.
"BTW, Sessions is still AG. Didn't you say he would be out in 2 days? Well, it's been more than 2 days and here he is."
I said no such thing. You sound hysterical. Calm down.
How is this different than Watergate? President Obama used the state to spy on a political opponent's campaign, not private contractors. BANANA REPUBLIC!
Has Obama or his minions got any jeopardy legally? Maybe Senator Schummer was right, we need a special prosecutor, but not for what he thinks.
Trump is president. Phone and pen. He hehehehe
Keep going to the mat.
So, Obama was trying to establish an impeachable link between Trump and Russia as far back as last June. Based on what?
Could it be that Russia was a willing partner to manufacture "evidence" against Trump?
It seems to me the Russians are more aligned with Democrats as far as American objectives.
The law was broken when it as reported, Chuck. That was before the election.
I've asked some of my conservative friends the following question and I haven't received a satisfactory answer yet: "Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?
How about avoiding the negative consequences of treating Russia like Iran?
Despite the facile GDP comparisons, Russia is not Italy. They have nukes, a (relatively) powerful military, resources, and a long diplomatic reach. What is the end-game with an anti-Russia policy? Isolate them? Regime change? Turn them into a failed state? People seeking an anti-Russia policy seem to think they can play a game of keeping Russia strait-jacketed for perpetuity, but I don't see that. It was desirable to topple the USSR, but Russia? I don't see it.
@Seeing red,
If the "competition" is colluding with a hostile foreign power to affect our elections, the "competition" may be engaging in illegal activity of a very serious nature. If you're unable to grok this, I can't make it more simple for you.
"lifelong republican" Chuck: "I'm not so sure anybody has mentioned it yet; if we make the (plausible, I submit) presumption that there was some form of FBI-requested/FISA-approved electronic surveillance within Trump Tower, and Trump has based his morning Tweets on that, has Donald J. Trump broken any laws by revealing the existence of same? Has Trump compromised information that was given to him in a classified briefing or other classified communication"
LOL
The moby gives himself away again!
We are awash in a sea of leaked classified information all given by obama minions to the NYT/Wash Post/CNN.
"lifelong republican"/Moby Chuck has no issue with that.
But God forbid Trump fight back in a legal way!
Once again, "lifelong republican" Chuck shows his true colors in demanding that the republicans/Trump remain disarmed and pre-emptively surrender.
Sorry Chuckie boy. Looks like your guy Obama is going to have do provide some retro-active justification for his and his admins actions after all.
Dems/MSM/"Lifelong republicans" hardest hit.
Yes it is the seriousness of the charge.
What did Pelosi say about the appearance of impropriety?
This is a big no-no, wagging my finger.
Browndog: "So, Obama was trying to establish an impeachable link between Trump and Russia as far back as last June. Based on what?"
Politics.
Obviously.
Unknown: "Seeing red, If the "competition" is colluding with a hostile foreign power to affect our elections, the "competition" may be engaging in illegal activity of a very serious nature."
And now we know they were not.
So you are left drifting on a logic/rhetorical iceflow.
And not even Algore can save you.
"How is this different than Watergate? President Trump used Putin to spy on a political opponent's campaign.....BANANA REPUBLIC!"
FTFY
"Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?"
Is there a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for seeking to avoid having a good relationship with Russia, but, instead, to have an intentionally contentious relationship with them?
rcocean also had this good answer above:
"I can think of two reasons for not being overly-hostile to Russia? 1) They haven't done anything to threaten vital US interests and 2) they 10,000 nuclear warheads."
Pretty funny that WaPo makes a point of noting that Trump cited no evidence. After all of the anti-Trump stories that they pushed from "un-named sources" and ...wait for it ... no evidence.
One of the things that I learned in 35 years of corporate life is that, after you leave, those that you thought of as your friends no longer are. And those that you thought loved you, didnt.
Would not be surprised if some of the Obama leftovers suddenly are finding it profitable to spill the beans to the new boss.
Haven't seen a whole lot of top Dems tripping over each other to deny Trump's allegation. I find that telling. At this point, they don't know what Trump has. The FISA requests might be the smoking gun.
Another fact (which I had forgotten) -- Trump campaign people like Manafort were also subjected to electronic surveillance by the Obama Administration.
Electronic surveillance and dirty tricks against the presidential campaign of the other party is the very essence of Watergate, followed up of course by the Obama officials cover-up and obstruction both during his presidency and now.
Again, we have to spend a blog post and an otherwise beautiful Saturday morning divining the true meaning behind this outrageous accusation.
No one is forcing you to be here. Most of this crap is a tempest in a teapot. Trump's claim is no more ridiculous than Sessions perjuring himself, but one story was breathlessly reported as Gospel and one is completely discounted. I find it interesting that most of the proof of the wiretapping comes from "credible news stories" that frame the story in brave, resistance, noble narratives. All Breitbart and Mark Levin did was flip the narrative. Same facts, different reasons.
A few thoughts:
Its shabbat again. Playing this card may be correct strategy, but tweet storm is wrong way to do it.
At time FISA taps went in (I smell evil Valerie's footprints all over this), doubt anyone at WH thought Trump had chance to win, so chance of watergate type scandal small
Levin's list of coup items really does suggest horrible behavior by Obamamites. Can anyone imaging Bush trying to do this crap in 2008?
Does anyone doubt the improper ongoing intelligence leaks to the Obamamites?
I do not like Trump, but I am actually surprised at how sleazy the Democrats are acting.
The Russian thing is a very real scandal, but until now, the Dems have been successful in having everyone's attention pointed in the opposite direction. The true scandal is in where these leaks of information and disinformation are coming from and the purpose in putting this narrative out there.
Meanwhile, after all this outrage over Trump people talking to Russians, the Democrats in Congress had the Russian ambassador with them on the floor of the House for the Trump speech.
I will point out something a lot of people seem to be forgetting- there have been leaks of quite a few of Trump's and his staff's phone conversations by someone within the government, and most of those leaks don't serve Trump's purposes, though a few did. There is a very narrow list of ways in which this might have happened, and a phone tap is high on that list.
It will be interesting to see the form of the denial by Obama and his staff to this charge (they will have to issue one by the end of today for sure due to the Sunday news shows). If you see a weasily "I am not aware" statement, then I think Trump probably does have evidence.
CNN keeps citing unnamed Obama officials. And calling Breitbart "right wing."
CNN doesn't understand. We don't believe unnamed sources. We view CNN as a leftwing advocate for the Dems.
Drago said
...
...We are awash in a sea of leaked classified information all given by obama minions to the NYT/Wash Post/CNN.
"lifelong republican"/Moby Chuck has no issue with that.
Where did you get that, you ignorant jackass? You want to point out where I ever said that I had no issue, with anti-Trump leaks? Or that I condoned illegal leaks of law enforcement or national security information? You can't do any of that, you moronic fuckhead. You're back to just making up stuff you imagine me saying, or writing, or thinking.
You have really turned these comments threads into a Trumpkin shit show. It's not even that you support Trump; it would be fine, actually, if you did that in an intelligent and conversational way. The real problem is that you are so stupid, and so hysterical, and so lowbrow in the way that you do it.
That's it for me today. I am off to a better way to spend my Saturday, than attempting any engagement with the likes of Drago.
"You can't escape responsibility by laying it off on an underling of any kind."
Unless you are a Democrat.
Damn, I was just thinking that the internet and news world had gotten a bit boring.
Things have gotten so abnormal under Trump that nobody has pointed out how inappropriate it is for the President to level such a serious and far reaching charge on Twitter.
"Hard to imagine a valid link between Obama personally and an order to wiretap"
What did he know and when did he know it?
Whatever Obama knew and whenever he knew it, the established facts point toward him knowing enough to qualify for being part of a criminal conspiracy.
People have started to take Trump's statements at a considerable discount. His biggest risk is that people start tuning him out completely because the value of what he says has become so discounted. Not sure he sees this risk.
People have started to take traditional media statements at a considerable discount. Their biggest risk is that people start tuning them out completely because the value of what they say has become so discounted. Not sure they see this risk.
If Obama changed succession, made intelligence sharing easier and appointed loads of political appointees in his final days in the White House, Trump should revoke his order reverting to the older way, and fire every person Obama put in office. Period.
The Democrats will claim politics, but it will be difficult to make stick if Trump states Obama was playing politics and trying to undermine the will of the people.
Once written, twice..: "Things have gotten so abnormal under Trump that nobody has pointed out how inappropriate it is for the President to level such a serious and far reaching charge on Twitter."
Charge: "Use of Twitter In The First Degree!!"
Thanks for the laugh Once. You never disappoint.
Admiral Mike Rogers told Trump that the wiretaps ahd continued after the FBI concluded there was no There there,
The Washington Post reported on 19 November 2016 that Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter and Director of National Intelligence (DNI) James R. Clapper Jr. had recommended to President Obama that Rogers be terminated as director of the National Security Agency. Carter reportedly recommended he be terminated due to poor performance, whereas Clapper considered it wise that the position be held by a civilian. Both Clapper and Carter had put Rogers on notice for poor performance in internal security and for a poor leadership style. His termination was reportedly delayed due to stalled changes to the bureaucratic structure of the intelligence community. Later, Rogers reportedly met with President-elect Donald Trump without notifying his supervisors in what is an unprecedented action for a military officer.
Obama fired him for telling Trump.
Gretchen: "If Obama changed succession, made intelligence sharing easier and appointed loads of political appointees in his final days in the White House, Trump should revoke his order reverting to the older way, and fire every person Obama put in office. Period."
Trump admin already reversed the succession rule change. Dems/MSM/"lifelong republicans" hardest hit.
Obama will probably come out and say he had no idea he wiretapped Trump until he learned about it in the media.
"That's it for me today. "
Thank God for small favors,
"lifelong republican"/Moby Chuck: "That's it for me today. I am off to a better way to spend my Saturday, than attempting any engagement with the likes of Drago"
Run away li'l MI electoral expert. There's got to be a Moby-foursome teeing off somewhere.
Trump has something up his sleeve. It will be interesting to see what the follow-up is. Maybe nothing. I assume this is related to the FISA warrant, the Flynn taps, and the post-Obama leaking operation.
This is clearly part of the counter-punch to the Dems' and their MSM running dogs' ridiculous and phony hysteria over the Russians (Alger Hiss--meh; Jeff Sessions--the horror! The horror!).
Trump is nothing if not entertaining.
Good ol' Lifelong Chuck (10:24) leaning toward Trump as defamer rather than Obama as wiretapper regardless of the recently demonstrated infamy of the Obot intelligence community.
Unfortunately for a lot of you, I am a Cold War baby.
That the commies would try and interefere in an election is....
A no brainier. Just like they were the hand behind the 30s movements, Elder of Zion Protocols and that stupid Latin American Catholic/Marxism bullshit which the current pope is infected with.
Do people not know history?
Vile Progs ran a piss-poor candidate with decades of grifter, power-mad entitled history. The great unwashed flyover states gave the cool kids/elite the massive finger.
It's the message stupid.
Russia is dying. The ChiComs are slowly colonizing their outer boundaries.
Rantburg is really good for this stuff.
Heh - what Drago said at 11:26AM!
Obama will probably come out and say he had no idea he wiretapped Trump until he learned about it in the media
The circumstantial evidence of Obama changing a lot of the rules after the election is pretty strong in establishing that he had internal personal knowledge before it became public.
Nyamujal to AA: "The Russian business is a conspiracy theory so why not distract with a conspiracy theory on top of the conspiracy theory?"
You really don't know that.
Not in the strictest philosophical sense of "know", no. She does know that, though, in the sense that any intelligent adult with a working nose for bullshit, a glancing familiarity with the American political landscape, normally functioning critical faculties, the ability to recognize shit-grade propaganda when she sees it, who didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, knows that.
This issue may finally answer the question of is Obama smart or is Obama a dumb fuck.
"lifelong republican"/Moby Chuck: "s? You want to point out where I ever said that I had no issue, with anti-Trump leaks?"
LOL
Nice construction there Moby.
Tell you what, why don't you provide a link showing us where you DID have an issue with all the anti-Trump leaks.
You clearly think you are being clever with this rhetorical sleight of hand you always pull.
Show us where you did have a problem with that.
For that matter, show us where you had an issue with this non-substance democrat attempted railroading of Sessions, a guy you claimed you just love, love, love.
But you won't, 'cuz Moby's don't do that. They always take stands that appear to be pro-republican where and when it doesn't really matter and is "cost free" and then simultaneously always adopting the dem talking points on whatever the crisis issue of the day is.
It's transparently obvious.
Fox is way more credible than CNN"
Not surprising when you consider that CNN played such a heavy role in the "advertising" of the BuzzFeed BS "dossier" (oppo research) that so entranced the MSM/dems/"Lifelong republicans".
3/4/17, 10:56 AM
Remember that CNN also "informed" the public that going to Wikileaks to read Podesta's emails was illegal.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"
Notice also how all of a sudden CNN is demanding detailed substantive backup for any and every Trump claim!
The question becomes should there be taps put on reporters conspiring with the obama leftovers to see how intel is leaking out?
We'll call it the Obama-Rosen Rule.
Sorry, not to tell people what they can say and not say, but this handful of people who reflexively feel the need to constantly respond to this POS Chuck really do derail and detract from the conversation as much as, if not more, than he does. You end up going off on these idiotic tangents that only add smoke and obfuscation to the real issues at hand.
It's almost as if you are in league with him to put people off track. Do us all a favor and ignore him (and the multiple Unknowns).
Amadeus 48 said...
Trump has something up his sleeve. It will be interesting to see what the follow-up is. Maybe nothing. I assume this is related to the FISA warrant, the Flynn taps, and the post-Obama leaking operation.
Hope so. May be like saying three million illegal votes. Other side goes from "no illegal votes" to " sure, illegal votes, but not that many".
Would be nice if President Trump had some existing intelligence guys actually on his side to feed him info.
Mark
Amen.
Who funded the DAPL protest in North Dakota? OPEC or Russia makes perfect sense. Cui bono higher oil and gas supply other than two top suppliers, OPEC and Russia?
Seeing Red: "A no brainier. Just like they were the hand behind the 30s movements, Elder of Zion Protocols and that stupid Latin American Catholic/Marxism bullshit which the current pope is infected with"
"liberation theology" is just Marxism in a vestment. See Fernando Cardenal in Nicaragua.
"Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?"
Good question, what president since Reagan hasn't? Remember the "Peace Dividend" the Dems pushed after the Soviets' demise. Wishful thinking, Russia still wants their Empire.
There are a lot of us a certain age who, however young, lived thru this shit and the fallout.
Those of a certain age who are shocked SHOCKED the rooskies are acting like rooskies must have spent their lives in drug and alcoholic-fueled lives or so completely self-centered they had absolutely no interest in the greater world around them.
Or they are poseurs or true believers or useful idiots.
This is all pre-Internet.
Thanks Drago. I couldn't remember the term.
J H Christ! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see what is happening. In fact you have to be willfully ignorant not to. Obama and crew are willing to harm America's interests for their own gain. This is unprecedented as far as I know.
Chuck, ARM, Unknown, Inga/whoever - wake the hell up and get freaking real. You are not stupid.
The Washington Post, or was it The New York Times, citing inference, innuendo, and personal prejudice accused Trump of being a social liberal, Putin of being a Soviet (i.e. left-wing) agent, Gaddafi as being an unrepentant dictator, Americans as being [class] diversitists, babies as lucrative clumps of cells, etc. The establishment of the Pro-Choice Church has been a first-order cause for presumption of guilt and progressive corruption. So, the JournoLists spin their yarns, and are surprised when they are treated as special interests.
As for Obama, several hundred million in unsourced campaign contributions well spent. Why else would he wage social justice from Libya to Egypt to Syria to Ukraine and force catastrophic anthropogenic immigration reform (a.k.a. refugee crises)?
Sniffing out clues so far, it does seem that Trump knew he was being tapped and that he used that to feed bad information to the Obama/Soros/Clinton machine.
Stay tuned.
Unknown said: "Seeing red, If the "competition" is colluding with a hostile foreign power to affect our elections, the "competition" may be engaging in illegal activity of a very serious nature."
Drago replied:
"And now we know they were not."
I agree with Drago. If they didn't find anything damaging to Trump from the taps-- and they must not have or Trump would be stupid to bring them up-- then we know the Russia story is complete BS, don't we?
Mark said:
"The true scandal is in where these leaks of information and disinformation are coming from and the purpose in putting this narrative out there."
Agreed.
David Begley said...
Who funded the DAPL protest in North Dakota? OPEC or Russia makes perfect sense. Cui bono higher oil and gas supply other than two top suppliers, OPEC and Russia?"
The head of NATO accused the Russians of working with Greenpeace to fund anti-fracking demostrations:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/20/russia-greenpeace-nato-fracking_n_5513992.html
So, of course, it makes perfect sense that Putin wanted America to have a president who is for fracking and building the pipelines, rather than the candidate Greenpeace preferred.
They are useful idiots. No matter how many credentialed initials after their names.
OK, I agree that the Four Pinocchio's (Media, Democrats, Academia, Deep State elements) are trying to reverse the actual election of 2016, not just be an active, vigilant opposition.
My feeling is however that the country is utterly unprepared for something like that. I don't mean "unready" as Belgium was unready for Germany's attack in World War I. I mean "would not support it all outside of the Four Pinocchio Clique" as no one would have supported McClellan marching on Washington to take over as a dictator during the Civil War outside of his headquarters clique. There was great opposition in the North at various times during that war, there were draft riots, Copperheads, huge casualty lists and defeats in the field for the Northern Army of the Potomac which was opposed by the military genius of Lee and Jackson. Lincoln was considered a grinning, overmatched baboon by important segments of DC society. That is why some wanted McClellan to march the Army of the Potomac into DC and take over; and that is why he sometimes considered it. But outside a very narrow circle no one thought the solution to the problems was a McClellan dictatorship. He was warned that, though the Army of the Potomac loved him, he would not find a corporal's guard to follow him on such a course of action. The same is true now. Neither Obama nor Hillary would find support for any attempt to reverse the election. Throw mud at Trump, yes. Think the time has come to abolish our democracy? No. (Abolish our democracy!!! on behalf of Hillary Clinton!!!) The people with this idea, the Four Pinocchios, think they would be believed if they had a "CIA dossier" and a DOJ "report" for the media to blare on about and for University Presidents to pearl clutch and jargonize about. But, just as the Four Pinocchios did not realize that the Blue Wall was cracking before the election, they do not realize now that they are no longer believable.
And Trump, rather cleverly, has put Pinocchio People in charge of the investigation which means that from the start it will not be credible. And then, being that the Clinton's are involved, it will have elements of financial corruption and sexual assaults on young women lawyers and so on and drag all concerned down, thus "draining the swamp" by filling it with bodies.
And the country won't care all that much being more concerned about job losses than the psychology of the DC losers.
Seeing Red said: "That the commies would try and interfere in an election is....
"A no brainier."
The question is with respect to the 2016 election, who are the commies? I know Trump isn't. I don't really put the Clintons in that category. The Russians? For sure. Team Obama?...?
I find it interesting that Trump levels this very serious charge and the very first thing lifelong Republican Chuck does is go all in on Obama suing Trump for defamation and winning.
You wonder why people call you a moby and a Democrat partisan, Chuck? It's because of stupid stuff like this, where your first instinct is to defend Obama with the fury of ten thousand suns, without even considering the possibility that Trump was right and Obama is far, far dirtier than Nixon in his worst fevered dreams.
After all, Obama has such a long history of being kind and generous to Republicans and to Trump, doesn't he?
--Vance
Obama et al are responsible for the trail of tear from Tripoli to Damascus to Kiev, and the refugee crisis in Eastern and Crimean Ukraine following the coup. Still, Leftist efforts with JournoListic propaganda to replace Jews with Russians as scapegoats has enjoyed remarkable success. As was the effort to paint Americans as [class] diversitists before that. The progress of anti-nativism, [class] diversity, monopolists (i.e. anti-capitalist), and abortionists has taken its toll in global social justice adventures, progressive debt, abortion fields, and immigration reform.
@rcocean and @Drago
"I can think of two reasons for not being overly-hostile to Russia? 1) They haven't done anything to threaten vital US interests and 2) they 10,000 nuclear warheads."
The have done a lot to threaten peace and stability in Europe and Syria, which is vital to US interests. If Ukraine is any indication, Putin's main play is to destabilize his neighbors to prevent them from drifting outside Russia's orbit. Russia's indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Syria has exacerbated the refugee crisis. Russian propaganda and meddling in European and our elections has the objective to erode small l liberal and democratic values and faith in Western institutions.
Previous US administrations have tried their best to cooperate with Russia. GW talked about "looking Putin in the eye and seeing a straightforward and trustworthy man" and what did he get in return? He got Putin invading Georgia. Obama and Clinton sought a "reset" with Russia and what did they get in return? They got Putin annexing Crimea and destabilizing Ukraine and shooting a passenger jet out of the sky.
Re:nukes, it's not like START and other nuclear negotiations took place when there was a thaw with the Russians.
This cozying up makes no sense. We're not just letting our Eastern European allies down, but also the Russians who hate Putin and want a better future for their country. And all this for a country that confronts grave problems in its economy, politics and society by lashing out at the west. Just read the Atlantic article I linked to...
Trump need only say: "According to a senior intelligence official who contacted me personally, and whose identity will remain classified, the Obama administration was aware of or authorized electronic surveillance and other spying on my campaign staff."
Breitbart follows with, "Senior intelligence officials who ask not to be named for fear of retaliation have confirmed that one or more members of President Trump's campaign staff, particularly General Flynn, were subjects of electronic surveillance prior to the election by minions of the Obama Administration."
Sources: As unimpeachable as any we have seen from the leftmedia.
Information: Already in the public domain and vouched for by the lefty mediaswine.
Fire with fire until the Democrat/media assholes get tired of it.
Iris DeMent - "We won't keep quiet"
We won't keep quiet
no
No matter what they do"
"Do us all a favor and ignore him (and the multiple Unknowns)."
Hear, Hear.
CTH is one of my go to places for info, along with British tabloids and Belmont Club. although Fernandez is posting a lot on facebook these days.
This thread is worth reading.
@Traditionalguy
" That ended when Obama and Clinton decide to remake who rules the middle east oil states from Tunesia across to Egypt and up to Syria. After the Russian interests in the Black Sea became threatened, the Russians drew a Red Line and have flat kept theirs."
You'll find that the remaking of Mid East power dynamics began with the Iraq war in 2003.
Sorry Nyamujal. I don't care.
You see there is a coup underway.
sunsong, who's trying to silence you, dumbbell?
I'm positive I've heard that certain members of Congress are briefed on FISA warrants sought/granted as part of oversight.
Sweden is concerned about the Russians. They are bringing back their draft or obligatory military service.
However, let's face it. Europe has always leaned that way, it's just their elite want torque themselves.
I hav no problem protecting the UK, Poland and the former small states who were in the USSR, if they want us to.
The ovenmakers, the chocolate makers and the frogs can go scratch.
Obama spokesperson Lois Lerner said it was a cardinal rule of the Obama DOJ not to get involved in politics.
Random, bizarre rants from our President. The man is possibly deranged... And he has the nuclear codes. God help us.
Good work hombre!
Not torque want to rule themselves.
Trump has finally completely lost his mind.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-accuses-obama-wiretapping-phones-trump-tower/story?id=45905776
"A spokesman for former President Obama issued a strong denial to President Trump's accusation that the former commander-in-chief wiretapped Trump Tower phones during the election campaign.
"A cardinal rule of the Obama administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice," Obama spokesman Kevin Lewis said in a statement Saturday. "As part of that practice, neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false."
The former president was responding to a series of tweets Saturday morning by Trump claiming that the former president wiretapped phones in Trump Tower in New York City during the presidential campaign.
Trump offered no proof for his claims."
Nyamujal: "This cozying up makes no sense. We're not just letting our Eastern European allies down, but also the Russians who hate Putin and want a better future for their country."
Now that you have establish your geopolitical expertise by mischaracterizing diplomatic detente with a dangerous nuclear power as "cozying up" and mischaracterizing Putin's relationship with the majority of his people, let's move on.
How would you characterize the lifting of sanctions against and financing the arming (nuclear or not) of a leading state sponsor of terrorism the hostility of which toward the US far exceeds that of Russia and which has pledged the "annihilation" of Israel, our staunchest ally? Sensible?
How about permitting the immigration of thousands of military age young men from high risk countries after ISIS has bragged that their operatives are included among the "refugees" and members of the same demographic are wreaking havoc on France, Germany, Belgium and, yes, even Sweden? Does that make sense?
We await your answers - breathlessly - o wise one.
CNN producer just said he called his sources. All anonymously, of course.
That's the problem! His sources are the likes of Val Jarrett, Susan Rice and Ben Rhodes; hard core Progs.
Matt: 'Random, bizarre rants from our President. The man is possibly deranged... And he has the nuclear codes. God help us."
Poor Matt. He didn't get the word that the talking points for today have shifted. Give him some time and I am sure he will catch up.
So Matt, Chuck, Sunsong and the rest of the Obama apologists: What exactly is your game plan here? Do you honestly expect people to sign off on the Democrat coup? Is your goal to get Obama back as president here? To pull a Hitler? Because it sure seems like it to me: You guys are agitating for Obama to become president again, against the Constitution in the most blatant way possible.
That is treason, and you guys support it 100% apparently.
--Vance
Fredericka Whitfield says Trump is not presidential. He's just pushing back against the Deep State.
Continued whining about 6:30 Tweet. Lady, he is a hard worker and 6:30 ain't early. Ask Althouse.
Perhaps there is a "Deep Throat"? Another disenfranchised DNC leftover, or persecuted American. Ever since Deep Plunger exposed Water Closet, the New York Times, Washington Post et al have been especially anxious.
Also, with the revelation of Obama, or his administration, wiretapping/auditing/prosecuting/etc. Republicans, including members of Trump's team, there is probable cause to consider this is a viable allegation. The Left must have expected to retain control of the federal government and its resources and access forever.
Obama now says that his White House never interfered with a DOJ investigation.
Do any of you know if a FISA court is under the aegis of a DoJ investigation?
"Trump should revoke his order reverting to the older way, and fire every person Obama put in office. Period"
Winner! If there is the slightest validity to Trump's claim then this would be the primary reason for publicizing it. Trump doesn't care if Obama monetizes his ex-Presidency off Lefty hysterics, but he does have a vital interest in turfing out Obama's bureaucrats. If the wiretap accusation is even remotely verifiable, it gives him all the political cover he'll need. Another Democrat own goal.
"So Matt, Chuck, Sunsong and the rest of the Obama apologists: What exactly is your game plan here? Do you honestly expect people to sign off on the Democrat coup? Is your goal to get Obama back as president here? To pull a Hitler? Because it sure seems like it to me: You guys are agitating for Obama to become president again, against the Constitution in the most blatant way possible.
That is treason, and you guys support it 100% apparently.
--Vance"
Trump is nuts and so are his followers.
Nyamujal,
There are many dimensions to "liberal and democratic values".
In Europe you have the EU squashing "liberal and democratic" values right and left, for the sake of an authoritarian uniformity. There are very good reasons the people are revolting.
In Eastern Europe its easy to see that Poland, for instance, is as usual between a rock and a hard place, stuck between Russia and Germany, its very nationalist and anti-Russian government having to worry more about the hostility of the EU than Russia.
And the Trump admin complaint about "Europe" not shouldering its burden is on point and long overdue. Nobody would care much about Russian sabre-rattling if Germany had a couple of panzer divisions ready to send to Latvia. Weakness makes instability.
Nothing is separate, everything has context, Russia isnt everything, Russia is not the worst problem, and even Putin isnt the devil. The game must be played.
If as CNN says, Obama can't order wiretaps, how did James Rosin - and his parents - get wiretapped?
Ukraine was destabilized by an Obama/Western-backed coup which forced survivors into Eastern Ukraine and Crimean peninsula, where the refugees received humanitarian and military aid from Russia. Fortunately, it wasn't as successful as the coup in Libya and other places afflicted by social justice adventurism that created abortion fields and catastrophic anthropogenic immigration reform.
Obama now says that his White House never interfered with a DOJ investigation.
I don't believe him.
Half of the US thinks the other half is deranged, or worse.
This is not a new observation and it didnt come with Trump, its just that the mask has fully come off.
I suggest a national Thunderdome, for the sake of catharsis.
"Obama now says that his White House never interfered with a DOJ investigation."
Not a smidgen of interference.
Actually, I am wrong. Obama had Holder and Lynch to do it for him, not to mention the Sally Yateses at the next level down.
"Obama now says that his White House never interfered with a DOJ investigation."
That doesn't rule out "instigated"' or "actively encouraged".
Obama never wiretapped Trump.
Just like he never wiretapped Angela Merkel:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10407282/Barack-Obama-approved-tapping-Angela-Merkels-phone-3-years-ago.html
It's funny, isn't it, how the left defends Alger Hiss and Ted Kennedy for committing treason to help out the Soviet Union.
But Sessions goes to a meeting Obama himself arranged, and it's the worst thing ever and the left is literally calling for his blood.
Meanwhile, people in this thread are justifying Obama spying on his political opponents. They owe Nixon a huge apology, and certainly they are perfectly fine with Trump bugging the DNC now.
Right?
--Vance
"Obama and Clinton sought a "reset" with Russia and what did they get in return? They got Putin annexing Crimea and destabilizing Ukraine and shooting a passenger jet out of the sky."
Because he knew they were lightweight, unserious punks who could be ignored with impunity or bought with "speaking fees".
Putin's a bully but he's not stupid. He's not going to try this shit with Trump. Unless Putin's Democrat allies succeed in weakening Trump's presidency.
This is a showdown to see who will govern the United States of America: the duly elected (by 77 electoral votes) President of the United States from the White House, or his predecessor (whom so many of us were eager to see depart) from his mansion in Kalorama?
I used to think Democrats were somewhere between stupid and misguided. I was wrong. Democrats are evil people and must be suppressed. There is no room in an orderly society for the likes of them.
Unknown (quoting ABC): "A spokesman for former President Obama issued a strong denial to President Trump's accusation that the former commander-in-chief wiretapped Trump Tower phones during the election campaign...."
Read it again, nimrod. If you think that is a "strong denial" as opposed to a qualified denial you are even dumber than your comments suggest. It is limited to "independent investigations led by the DOJ," "directly ordered by ..."
Does anyone actually believe that "an independent investigation by the department of justice" is the only way that electronic surveillance can occur in the United States? Does anyone actually believe that Obama's administration has never consented to the electronic surveillance of American citizens, even if they have not ordered same? Does anyone actually believe that the disingenuous Obama administration is above a carefully worded denial to obscure the facts, let alone a flat out lie?
Beyond that, does anyone actually believe that the leftmedia would forgo asking the necessary questions to expose such a subterfuge by the Obama minions?
As for proof, can anyone put a name to the scurrilous leakers of classified information to, say, the Washington Post or CNN? Also, we do know that General Flynn was the subject of electronic surveillance under the Obots.
It depends o what the meaning of "is" is.
Parse every letter.
I've heard that certain members of Congress are briefed on FISA warrants sought/granted as part of oversight.
More recently, the FBI Obama holdovers have become very uncooperative in discussing these things with members of Congress.
I've always been amazed that we elected an enemy of our country to be our president.
@Kevin: Yes, the O denial is carefully crafted. Gives them outs. Won't be the last word.
Nyamujal: I've asked some of my conservative friends the following question and I haven't received a satisfactory answer yet: "Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?".
I assume by the nature of your questions and comments your "conservative" friends are Conservatism, Inc., conservatives (aka "real conservatives" aka "right liberals" aka "neocon neoliberals"), or contrarily, since they identify themselves as "conservatives" you assume that that's what they are.
If the former, then their answer ought to be a simple "no". If it isn't, perhaps you ought to re-examine your assumptions. (Perhaps "can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for (incompetently) rattling sabers at Russia" might be a more productive line of inquiry with your maybe-not-Real-Conservative friends.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you identified yourself as (one of the last of the) Real Conservatives? Can't you answer that question to your own satisfaction? If your friends don't concur, then they're not "Real Conservatives".
...there's a strong argument that Putin has become the ideological leader of post-2008 nationalist movements everywhere which is why Bannon and Trump see him as a natural ally.
No, that isn't a strong argument, it's a silly one. It's Neocon Retard 101. Anyone who thinks that Vladimir Putin is the "ideological leader" of resurgent nationalism, or that the entirely predictable resurgence of nationalist movements that we're seeing today is some wily Kremlin-directed plot, or that "Bannon and Trump" see him as a "natural ally", is an idiot. Would somebody like Putin attempt to use these forces to his own advantage? Well, duh. That's what nations, and various stripes of ideologues, including Western neo-liberals, do.
Putin is a great threat to the post-cold war world order with the US at its helm.
The "post-cold war world order" has much more serious threats to its continuation than small-potatoes Putin - like the clueless, reality-denying policies of its leaders. Furthermore, millions of ordinary American citizens (and citizens of nations everywhere, for that matter) aren't too pleased with where the "post-cold war order", helmed by a government that alleges to be working in their interest, is going...
...and we'll pay dearly for aligning ourselves with him.
...and if you're dedicated to maintaining an order that is not serving the interests of the citizens it purports to represent, or cynically self-interested in maintaining an order that is working out nicely for you, regardless, or just a not very bright apparatchik, you start blaming the cracks in the system on various bogey-men and Hitlers-of-the-month, and imagining all sorts of crazy shit, such as that the people you disagree with want to "align" with the likes of Putin, rather than deal with him prudently in the ways that best serve our (as opposed to "our") interests.
"The Russian business is a conspiracy theory so why not distract with a conspiracy theory on top of the conspiracy theory?"
You really don't know that.
It's been months and nothing has been produced. At all.
I've asked some of my conservative friends the following question and I haven't received a satisfactory answer yet: "Can you give me a good foreign policy or economic policy reason for cozying up to Russia?".
The benefit of a hyper-aggressive policy is what? He's beefing up our military and expanding fracking. Russia isn't getting much of a benefit here.
These concerns are also baffling after we've spent years cozying up to Iran, of all countries. And Cuba. Say what you want about Putin, in the annals of human rights abuses, he is a piker next to the mullahs and Castro.
Hard to imagine a valid link between Obama personally and an order to wiretap.
There was no "valid link" between Nixon PERSONALLY and the Watergate break-in...yet he got blamed.
There was no "valid link" between Ken Lay or Jeff Skilling and the accounting scandals that killed Enron...yet they were responsible.
Hell, there was no "valid link" between Hitler personally and the Holocaust...yet we know he was responsible.
Obama was the "boss". The buck stopped there. Ditto for the IRS scandals (he could've demanded firings/resignations). Ditto Fast & Furious. Ditto Hillary's email server.
Again, we have to spend a blog post and an otherwise beautiful Saturday morning divining the true meaning behind this outrageous accusation.
Not really. We can point to FISA requests to demonstrate the accusation's validity.
If Obama got a FISA warrant to wire tap Trump's office, he had good reason to. The court allowed it once it was narrowed down. We don't know what was found, despite Trump's insane tweets.
They found nothing as nothing was released. But even you are admitting what Trump said was correct.
Don't worry, Nixon had good reasons to allow the bugging of the DNC too.
And, Chuck, given that the President has absolute control over what is and what is not classified info, Trump can declassify anything he wants anytime he wants.
One party's platform was basically exactly what Russia wanted. That party lost the election.
You guys are agitating for Obama to become president again, against the Constitution in the most blatant way possible.
That is treason
Actually, it is sedition. This word, not often heard these days, means seeking the overthrow of the lawful government.
"A spokesman for former President Obama issued a strong denial to President Trump's accusation that the former commander-in-chief wiretapped Trump Tower phones during the election campaign...."
So, the FISA request was fictitious?
Obama now says that his White House never interfered with a DOJ investigation
Obama now says: "I am not a crook."
Nyamujal, Nyamujal, yoo-hoo.
My questions remain unanswered (12:06). Critical thinking is hard, isn't it?
I used to think Democrats were somewhere between stupid and misguided. I was wrong. Democrats are evil people and must be suppressed.
The party should have been outlawed -- like the National Socialist party was in Germany -- after their promotion of and violent defense of slavery and secession led to hundreds of thousands dead, not to mention the Democrats' policy of segregation and sabotage and suppression of civil rights laws after the war.
Today's Democrat Party is living up to that legacy.
I fully expect that an honest account of Obama and the left would reveal treason, sedition, and other such things. In conjunction with the media, aka Democrat Propaganda wing.
We can see it all in this thread already: the "Obama had to break the law because Trump is so awful!" It will be the next excuse when it's proven that Obama did it.
And when the Democrats try to put Obama back in office, they'll argue that "we have to destroy the Constitution in order to put us in power for eternity!"
Which in fact I agree with: they want to destroy the Constitution.
--Vance
The Trumpists are in high dudgeon today. No amount of arguing any point will do any good. I've never seen such a state of mass hysteria, well at least not in the US, North Korea maybe, for their Dear Leader.
I heard a rumor that Putin is having buyer's remorse.
So "citing no evidence" is an unacceptable standard now for the Washington Post. Sudden pangs of journalism?
Redditt said ...
You would think that if the previous president had that kind of wiretapping capabilities, the current president would be able to find better proof of it than a blog post from Brietbart.
Lets say it is true that the Trump tower was wired. Couldnt Trump just call one of his agencies responsible for this? Like
Trump: "Hey, did you wiretap me?" NSA/CIA/FBI: "Yes/No"
"Beyond that, does anyone actually believe that the leftmedia would forgo asking the necessary questions to expose such a subterfuge by the Obama minions?"
That was supposed to read, "would NOT forego asking." (12:32)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBTMKLmdpho
Putin's "buyer's remorse" happened when he realized that the tens of millions he spent on Hillary went up in smoke election day.
"Obama and Clinton sought a "reset" with Russia and what did they get in return? They got Putin annexing Crimea and destabilizing Ukraine and shooting a passenger jet out of the sky."
Maybe that says more about Obama/Clinton's shitty diplomatic abilities than anything else. Maybe Vicky Nuland's meddling in Ukraine wasn't such a good idea after all.
So would ARM trade our country and Constitution to get rid of Trump and put Obama back in? After all, If Trump is forced to resign, that makes it President Pence... and the hysteria from the left on that would be far more than against Trump.
So: ARM, you are agitating against Trump; what's the end goal here? To give Obama the reins of power again (I don't see any appetite to put Hillary on the throne from the left; they just want Obama back).
--Vance
The Trumpists are in high dudgeon today. No amount of arguing any point will do any good. I've never seen such a state of mass hysteria, well at least not in the US, North Korea maybe, for their Dear Leader.
There's no high dudgeon. It was expected behavior from the left. That's why a campaign based on draining the swamp won.
Why would anyone be surprised to learn that the Obama Administration wiretapped the Trump campaign? They were aggressive in their use of wiretapping, including of journalists they considered enemies, like James Rosen. They had no problem vaporizing US citizens with drones without warrants.
What makes this believable is the fact that the FISA court denied the application 4 times (!!) in June before approving it in September or October. Lord knows what they told the court to get approval. Even then, it was to listen in on foreign nationals and delete US citizens. Yet, they kept and circulated benign conversations between Flynn and Russian officials to leak it later. Anyone who believes they would pass up an opportunity to wiretap the Trump campaign to collect damaging information to beat him in NOvember or sabotage his presidency is naive beyond hope. The "denial" is loaded with outs and dodges that could have been written by a battery of DNC lawyers.
What we are witnessing is a coordinated campaign to deploy the information strategically to undermine the US government.
ARM's end goal is most often to disrupt a thread that might be going badly for his side. Has he brought up Milo yet?
China supposedly pays 50 cents for a blog comment that throws a thread off the rails.
'Lets say it is true that the Trump tower was wired. Couldnt Trump just call one of his agencies responsible for this? Like
Trump: "Hey, did you wiretap me?" NSA/CIA/FBI: "Yes/No"'
Sure. He could just call one of the scurrilous leakers to WaPo or CNN. Better yet, he could call one of the geniuses who read Putin's mind to learn he was the architect of the DNC hack and, contrary to all conventional wisdom, wanted Trump instead of the Grifter in the WH.
It will likely be years before the infestation of seditious Obots is expunged from the intelligence community.
Hahahahaha! OMG, even Trump's administration officials are shocked by his allegations and tweets. Trump believed Breitbart, just like his nutty followers. Yep, this is your guy, you fools voted for him.
Administration insiders must be worried about the day Trump remembers that Nixon once bugged Kissinger.
Has there been another terrorist attack in Sweden or Bowling Green this weekend? Hahahahaha!
Couldnt Trump just call one of his agencies responsible for this? Like
Trump: "Hey, did you wiretap me?" NSA/CIA/FBI: "Yes/No"
I'm taking this as a serious question, not a snark.
He could but he needs to find out who is honest and not in on the leftist conspiracy.
Nixon was taken down by Mark Felt in revenge for passing him over as FBI Director.
Yes, Nixon had done some things that were bad but so had Lyndon Johnson. Theodore White postulated in one of his books that Nixon expected some deference because he had given up a good chance to reverse the 1960 election result because of fraud in Chicago and Texas.
But he was wrong because of Helen Gahagan Douglas and Alger Hiss.
Trump is the enemy because Hillary was supposed to win the election.
These are dangerous times. A professor ended up in the ER at Middlebury College. Berkeley was trashed.
The violence on the left, in spite of all sorts of allegations that Trump is Hitler, is an indication of how crazy the left is today.
tim in vermont said...
ARM's end goal is most often to disrupt a thread that might be going badly for his side.
This statement makes an assumption not in evidence to the unimpassioned viewer. Wouldn't it have been more productive to address the issues brought up by our millennial compatriots over at Reddit?
Trump is off his meds. I'm starting to think he's a flat tire.
He's so used to bluffing his way around, that he can't get traction in a town of bluffers.
I'm not in high dungeon. I'm lmao.
That basic commie history has to be spelled out...
Actually the history of man encapsulated in this instance.
Tech provides a veneer. Man hasn't changed.
Ronnie was right.
Michael K said...
He could but he needs to find out who is honest and not in on the leftist conspiracy.
The idea that the NSA/CIA/FBI is a giant left wing conspiracy is going to controversial on the left.
"So: ARM, you are agitating against Trump; what's the end goal here? To give Obama the reins of power again (I don't see any appetite to put Hillary on the throne from the left; they just want Obama back).
--Vance"
It is charitable of you to attribute such benign motives. It may not be true of ARM, others, however, are like the losing side that takes its ball and goes home. The point is to ruin the game. (See, e.g., Bill "Deep State" Cristol, Chuck "Donut Man" Shumer.)
I wonder how much it will take to get through that thick obtuseness of the Republican Establishment? Or if this will reveal that, rather than being so utterly blind and obtuse, they are really collaborators?
Post a Comment