November 6, 2016

Newt Gingrich, predicting a post-election uprising: "If Trump is elected, it will just be like Madison, Wisconsin with Scott Walker."

On "Meet the Press" this morning:
I think tragically, we have drifted into an environment where if Hillary is elected, the criminal investigations will be endless, and if Trump is elected, it will just be like Madison, Wisconsin with Scott Walker. The opposition of the government employee unions will be so hostile and so direct and so immediate, there will be a continuing fight over who controls the country. I think that we are in for a long, difficult couple of years, maybe a decade or more, because the gap between those of us who are deeply offended by the dishonesty and the corruption and the total lack of honesty in the Clinton Team. And on their side, their defense of unions, which they have to defend, I understand that. But that will lead to a Madison, Wisconsin kind of struggle if Trump wins.
I always love hearing the name of my city called out as the symbol of resisting the outcome of the election.

And maybe Newt Gingrich read my blog post from a couple weeks ago:
This is what Democrats actually did in Wisconsin when Scott Walker took office as governor in 2011.

I'm reading a NYT article that's teased on the front page with the headline "Some Trump Voters Warn of Revolution if Clinton Wins" and the quote "People are going to march on the capitols. They’re going to do whatever needs to be done to get her out of office, because she does not belong there." From the text of the article:

[A] new emotion is taking hold among some Trump supporters as they grapple with reports predicting that he will lose the election: a dark fear about what will happen if their candidate is denied the White House. 
Dark? What makes fear dark?
Some worry that they will be forgotten, along with their concerns and frustrations. Others believe the nation may be headed for violent conflict.

Jared Halbrook, 25, of Green Bay, Wis., said that if Mr. Trump lost to Hillary Clinton, which he worried would happen through a stolen election, it could lead to “another Revolutionary War.” “People are going to march on the capitols,” said Mr. Halbrook, who works at a call center. “They’re going to do whatever needs to be done to get her out of office, because she does not belong there.
Oh! He's from Wisconsin. We know all about marching on the capitol here in Wisconsin.
“If push comes to shove,” he added, and Mrs. Clinton “has to go by any means necessary, it will be done.”
The article continues with another quote and it's somebody else from Wisconsin!
“It’s not what I’m going to do, but I’m scared that the country is going to go into a riot,” said Roger Pillath, 75, a retired teacher from Coleman, Wis. “I’ve never seen the country so divided, just black and white — there’s no compromise whatsoever. The Clinton campaign says together we are stronger, but there’s no together. The country has never been so divided. I’m looking at revolution right now.”
The country has never been so divided, but what about this state?

143 comments:

320Busdriver said...

And Obama is on video telling DREAMERS its ok to vote in the USA.

My, it really is going off the rails.

buwaya puti said...

I recommend, again, the first three chapters of Anthony Beevor's "Battle for Spain".

Available on the Althouse Amazon portal!

Well, for as long as Amazon is operating of course.

The causes of some wars are purely emotional, a matter of the spirit of the age.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

I can think of only two movies where two guys dance with one girl.

Bande à part (1964).

My Fair Lady (1964).

Mark said...

Looks to me like you are priming the false equivalency pump in case some Trumpers go off the deep end this week.

Birkel said...

Althouse: "I always love hearing the name of my city called out as the symbol of resisting the outcome of the election."

People all around you have cultivated this environment in Madison and across college campuses. If you have not noticed, you have purposefully avoided seeing it.

Responsibility avoided.

Chuck said...

Newt is not wrong.

But it would have been a hell of a lot smarter for Republican primary voters to have stayed closer to Newt's scenario, and to have supported Scott Walker in the primary.

Because the difference between Walker and Trump is that Walker is a serial winner of general elections.

Michael K said...

The lefties always project their own violent intolerance onto Trump voters.

The guy at the Trump rally yesterday was probably a Hillary paid volunteer. Wikileaks knew his name.

The Hillary supporters are accusing Trump fans of beating him up. What would happen to you at a Hillary rally if somebody said you have a gun ? Make a sudden move and look suspicious and you are on the floor in an instant.

dreams said...

I like this take on Trump.

"My sense, having observed Donald Trump since July 2015, is that his temperament has mellowed and matured these past fifteen months. Partly, perhaps, it is because he is following the direction of his aides and advisors, who have, we are told, urged him to "stay on message."
But people tend to become the characters they emulate, which is one reason that habit is so important. "In a word," as Aristotle observed, "our moral dispositions are formed as the result of the corresponding activities." Accordingly, he notes, "we become just by doing just acts, temperate by doing temperate acts, brave by doing brave acts." To some extent, then, people are responsible for their characters, their temperament: "they acquire a particular quality," said the philosopher, "by constantly acting in a particular way.""

https://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2016/11/06/a-few-thoughts-about-temperament/2/

Michael K said...

We are planning to drive to Tucson via Phoenix next week. I am already worried about Phoenix if Trump wins. The BLM types like to block freeways.

walter said...

320Busdriver said...And Obama is on video telling DREAMERS its ok to vote in the USA
-
Yep. That clip is absolutely classic, including the relieved expression on the young women's face as Obama proceeds to turn the word "citizen" inside out.
Completely worthy of an Altparse.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Gingrich is the one promising endless criminal investigations. And Trump doesn't seem to have earned the particular animosity of the government employee unions.

buwaya puti said...

But Walker was not in touch with the spirit of the times, or at any rate that of the majority of those on his general alignment outside of Wisconsin.
The people are the people, and what they think is what they think; at best a politician can determine where they want to go (which may not be where he wants to go), and pretend to lead them there.

Matthew Sablan said...

It probably will be. Hell, they're calling him a Nazi and paying mentally ill people to disrupt his rallies and he's only a potential threat to winning the election.

Kit Carson said...

it sure looks like a Fourth Turning (epic struggle, destruction, death, some kind of reformation). what makes this Fourth Turning particular is that is a Spenglerian Late Civilization Fourth Turning. not good, peeps, not good at all. to make matters worse, add to that the fruition of the brilliant though perfidious multi-decade Cloward-Piven strategy.
strange as it may seem, donald trump right now is America's best bet to mitigate or forestall the terrible crises that seem right around the corner.

Matthew Sablan said...

And I wish when I said things like that, I was being sarcastic and not just quoting someone who was caught on film and resigned in disgrace once his words became public.

If Trump wins, the fallout will be epic.

buwaya puti said...

Trump will, if he wins, walk into the largest pit of vipers the world has ever seen. In Washington, among the bureaucrats, every mans hand will be against him.
If he presumes to prune or devolve bureacratic scope and their powers, which he would have to do, it will certainly bring out the unions, along with hosts of hangers on with their rice bowls.

shiloh said...

"If Trump is elected" moot point since it ain't gonna happen.

But as always, keep hope alive!

Althouse, eagerly looking forward to your presidential prediction thread even though many of your foolish con flock have already chimed in. Some many mos. ago.

Indeed as Althouse is the go-to place for accurate presidential political forecasting!

You bet'cha!

SteveR said...

The influence of the government workers -- at all levels, union or non-union -- is very underestimated. Hillary represents the status quo in an environment where certain realities are looming close to the horizon. Forget Trump, forget Walker. The liabilities of pension plans alone will need to be addressed across the country for one thing and there are others. These systems have not reflected reality for a long time and the threat to the "work 30 years in a secure job and retire with a good pension with benefits" mode is not taken lightly.

Its not sustainable but they will not been given up, to any degree, with out a literal fight.

shiloh said...

"Because the difference between Walker and Trump is that Walker is a serial winner of general elections."

One caveat ie when voter turnout is low ie mid-terms Walker is a serial winner. Just like Obama is a serial winner of WI when voter turnout is high er presidential elections.

Indeed, Reps do well in mid-terms ie low turnout. Congrats!

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Chuck! Chuck my man, focus. Be strong, Chuck, and face reality. It is a dodge to focus in what should have been. Certainly the voters you mention should have made a better choice, but we are past that. The general election voters/the nation should have made a better choice in 2012. So what? It is done, here we are.

Be strong, Chuck, face reality manfully.

Big Mike said...

Trouble is, I think he's right.

When I moved to more rural area of Virginia after retirement I had a chance to see real people (as opposed to government bureaucrats) up close, and the anger out here is palpable. If Hillary wins, and manages to implement her policies (like the 20% "haircut" for IRAs and 401Ks) then the day will come, Professor Althouse, when you long for that "nice Mr. Trump."

David Begley said...

Newt also talked about this part of the Constitution, "and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state."

How are the millions in presents paid by kings and foreign states to the Clinton Foundation while Hillary was Secretary of State not a violation of the constitution?

The lawyer answer - from the likes of David Kendall - would be that the Clinton Foundation is a separate corporate entity and that Hillary received no salary. But we can see she dervived plenty of personal benefit via her spouse. The Clinton Foundation was the alter ego of Hillary and was set up for the very purpose of evading the law.

buwaya puti said...

That Republicans turn out better when there is less media hype and drama is an interesting and I think a very telling indicator of the character of the polity.

Republicans are, on the evidence, on average, more virtuous, more reliable, more dutiful and selfless. They are the bulk of the very bones and organs of your country.

dreams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dreams said...


"The Hillary supporters are accusing Trump fans of beating him up. What would happen to you at a Hillary rally if somebody said you have a gun ? Make a sudden move and look suspicious and you are on the floor in an instant."

I think voters will like how Trump conducted himself in that episode. Here is Roger Kimbal thoughts on that and more.

https://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2016/11/06/a-few-thoughts-about-temperament/2/

campy said...

The opposition of the government employee unions will be so hostile and so direct and so immediate, there will be a continuing fight over who controls the country.

A.) Trump's not gonna win

and

2.) Even if he did, it wouldn't be much of a fight. The unions would cream him.

buwaya puti said...

The fellows with their hands on the switches and levers and pliers of power, of all physical existence - electricity, gas, water, railroads, trucks, and etc. that actually do keep us all alive, and who are necessary to the whole in a way that very few commenting here are - these people are mostly Republican, and are for Trump.

Those against Trump are disproportionately the dispensable, those who would not be missed, in an existential sense.

This point struck me decades ago, after much familiarity with the true mechanisms of the economy. There is that which is essential, and that which isnt, and there is a great difference in character between those that are drawn in each direction.

Hagar said...

Gingrich is an optimist.

wholelottasplainin' said...

"2.) Even if he did, it wouldn't be much of a fight. The unions would cream him."
**************

I bet PATCO, the air traffic controllers' union, thought they could cream Reagan, too.

Heh

rhhardin said...

Newt comes here for the comments.

campy said...

I bet PATCO, the air traffic controllers' union, thought they could cream Reagan, too.

Their mistake was walking off the job. The bureaucrats wouldn't do that.

alan markus said...

The last time a Governor took on the unions, it did not work out so well - for the unions (see Walker)

The last time a President took on a union, it did not work out so well - for the union (see Reagan)

Personally, I don't see Trump going on the offensive of rank & file government workers. It's their managers that might have something to worry about.

mccullough said...

No matter who wins, we are in for another low decade. The decline will continue

walter said...

Speaking of decline, has Madonna stated where she will be servicing Clinton voters?

shiloh said...

"The last time a Governor took on the unions, it did not work out so well - for the unions"

Actually the last time a gov took on unions it worked out quite well for Dems/labor!

Ohio voters overwhelmingly reject Issue 2, dealing a blow to Gov. John Kasich

61/39 ~ Power to the people!

IIRC, the main reason Walker survived was a majority of the voters did not believe the recall process was legitimate. It would be interesting to see if WI voters could have voted directly on the issue instead of the governor.

I yield back the balance of my time.

Pettifogger said...

We were probably more divided in 1860, but that's a helluva standard.

mockturtle said...

No matter which candidate wins, there will be some kind of uprising. Because the left is hysterical, they pose the greater risk, I think. And whoever quells the uprising, left or right, will be tagged as fascists.

As Bette Davis said in All About Eve, "Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night'. Or decade.

sunsong said...

Trump is going to lose! That's been clear since the last debate. If Trump supporters behave badly because they lost - people will just be all the more happy they lost. Hillary will win with the most diverse coalition in American history. Appealing only to white males has been a stupid idea since Obama's first term.

Michael K said...

Even if he did, it wouldn't be much of a fight. The unions would cream him.

Others have already pointed out the fallacy in that. The issue may be Civil Service and what might happen with a Trump presidency and a GOP Congress. The whole idea of "Civil Service" was to eliminate the spoils system. What we have now is a Democrat Spoils System and that might be vulnerable. I wonder if they realize it. They should. They are alienating a large proportion of the population.

Michael K said...

Sunsong and shiloh sound nervous.

traditionalguy said...

I go along with today's Maureen Dowd analysis of the two candidates. And with that kind of support, there is no way Hillary will win.The Dems have surrendered.

Birkel said...

shiloh and sunsong:

Argument by assertion is uninspiring.

Instead, please lay out the positive case for your preferred candidate. Unalloyed positives only; thanks in advance.

I yield back all the time left in the future of the universe, given that neither of you will attempt an answer.

FullMoon said...

This post made me want to re-read the Democrats running away posts and comments.
Came across the day Gabby Giffords was shot.: Althouse 2011

mccullough said...

Sunsong,

Unfortunately our combat troops and law enforcement officers are heavily made up of white men. Chicago's homicides are going to increase from 500 to 700 this year. It's really stupid to alienate white men. The diverse coalition doesnt sign up for combat or law enforcement. So
Until robot soldiers and robot cops are fully operational it would be wise for people not to alienate working white men.

sunsong said...

mccullough,

Until robot soldiers and robot cops are fully operational it would be wise for people not to alienate working white men.

Is that a threat? It's not ALL white men - it's the deplorable ones. A dwindling number. Most people, male and female want to be loving and kind. The "bad" cops are no longer just being tolerated...

shiloh said...

"Sunsong and shiloh sound nervous."

MK, you sorry ass dinosaur! ~ Did the quick research:

I'm leaving ~ Bye

Very disappointed you only lasted 7.5 wks ie no willpower. Again, never announce you are leaving as it only reals you are craving attention and more than likely will be back sooner than expected.

profiler-in-chief

Get a grip asshole as nobody cares about big brother snooping but you ie a sad, lonely, aging man.

althouse resident medical expert on Hillary's health

So how did you get your medical degree? Watching old reruns of Ben Casey?

Apologies to dinosaurs ...

shiloh said...

as it only reveals you are craving attention and more than likely will be back sooner than expected.

shiloh said...

Birkel, you are persistent. Repeating, no case to present other than she's less of a train wreck than Trump.

And diehard cons hate her so she must have some redeeming qualities.

buwaya puti said...

Loving kindness is a totalitarian trope.
Be loving and kind, as per our definition, or else.

Such a position is an existential threat. Fighting words.

shiloh said...

bp, who are you voting for?

Oh I'm sorry as you're not American. Just a disgruntled conservative millionaire living in Silicon Valley.

So this is obviously a high-stake election for you, eh.

viejo loco said...

Ah, Shiloh, to do this after I just got through praising you in comparison to PBandJ_Underwear. My question to you is, how do you know which end to put your pants on, since you have an asshole in both ends.
Sunsong - go back to the hole you crawl out of, we have enough dumbasses, better ones, here than you to deal with.

Birkel said...

I will continue to yield all of eternity for shiloh to find a positive case for Clinton.

If the above was meant to be a concession, I ask you to type "I concede the point that I only care about partisanship and have no higher goal than political power, so I support the Democrat."

Own what you are.

mockturtle said...

Where is Chuckles?

walter said...

As usual, when flailing about, the lefties will eventually resort to stomping their feet with fists at side shouting "Oh yeah?! Well your mean..and old! Mean and old. So there!"

Bruce Hayden said...

We are planning to drive to Tucson via Phoenix next week. I am already worried about Phoenix if Trump wins. The BLM types like to block freeways.

Bring your AR-15. And, maybe a handgun or two. Plus, keep in mind (as I know you will) that a vehicle is also a deadly weapon. Make sure, before actually pointing a gun at anyone, or running anyone over, that you can articulate a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury - not hard if they try to break the windows or get you out of your vehicle. And, being a "seasoned citizen" helps there, since you naturally are more worried about you or your family being hurt, since it is typically much easier to do then than when in your 20s.

Just got back from PHX yesterday. Not really that many Blacks visible. Many, many, more Hispanics. Soros is spending millions trying to beat Sheriff Joe Arpaio. And, with a lot of illegals voting, he might succeed.

shiloh said...

"Sunsong - go back to the hole you crawl out of, we have enough dumbasses, better ones, here than you to deal with."

Indeed, there are so few libs here so let's make a few of them disappear. That's the ticket! btw, still not sure pb&j is a lib.

>

Birkel, I'm an independent lib and definitely more liberal than Hillary, but as always, elections come down to choices.

This go around have decided to reject the nihilistic egomaniac, pathological liar, authoritarian misogynistic bigot Trump!

Indeed, it was a close call!

ObeliskToucher said...

Trump signing an executive order that rescinds Kennedy's Executive Order 10988 ("Employee-Management Cooperation in the Federal Service") would be a nice way to start his presidency.

buwaya puti said...

We live in San Francisco itself actually, I am inside the belly of the beast. Well, maybe New York/Manhattan would be closer to the center of the trouble.

Yes I am disgruntled, in spite of being well-off. This is an impersonal judgement I have formed, independent of personal interest, as we are well-insulated from any negative effects.

You are very far down the wrong track on every trend, getting progressively dumber, poorer, more corrupt, less free, less productive, less entrepreneurial, and rapidly losing your national qualities of initiative, creativity and inventiveness. These are being actively suppressed in your modern society. This is I think deliberate.

Rusty said...

Shiloh and sunsong are acting like they are going to vote multiple times. Maybe someone should be notified.

Achilles said...

Blogger shiloh said...
Birkel, you are persistent. Repeating, no case to present other than she's less of a train wreck than Trump.

Ok ARM. We understand you are out of ideas and completely disingenuous, dishonest, and soulless. It is clear that Trump is winning among legal voters and that' is why Obama is explicitly courting illegal voters.

You people are criminals. You are fascists. Hillary put herself above the law and you support that. That makes you an enemy of freedom and liberty. You will have the DC bureaucracy on your side. We have the veterans of the US armed forces on our side.

Please bring all of your assertions to the battlefield.

shiloh said...

bp, your incessant whining aside ...

Isn't it great you are free to whine 24/7 at Althouse.

And I am free to point out your reality of incessant, hyperbolic con whining.

America, what a country!

>

And someone give Achilles a hug 'cause he has become a certifiable lunatic.

Michael K said...

Very disappointed you only lasted 7.5 wks ie no willpower. Again, never announce you are leaving as it only reals you are craving attention and more than likely will be back sooner than expected.

Well, I see the rage is back. I wonder why ?

I was asked by multiple commenters to return. I recognized the names and did so. I have avoided poking sticks into your cages so as to give you little incentive to lash out.

All I said was you "sound nervous." After a series of supposedly confident comments, this provoked an obscene and angry response.

I wonder why?

It does give me some optimism about Tuesday.

Actually, I am aging but not lonely. You might think about what you will do after Trump wins the election. I assume you do something that is vulnerable. I'm not saying he will but you are more afraid then I am confident.

Michael K said...

Shiloh is really getting out of control. Are there any adults in your family ?

mockturtle said...

Shiloh whined: And I am free to point out your reality of incessant, hyperbolic con whining.

Hyperbolic con whining is far, far preferable to puerile liberal whining. And far less prevalent.

mccullough said...

Sunsong,

Loving kind people don't volunteer for combat. And your diverse coalition isn't volunteering to take their place in combat or on large urban police forces. Homicide rates are spiking in big cities, especially Baltimore and. Chicago because the deplorables are honoring the constitutional rights of the scum who are killing each other. Your diverse coalition isn't joining police departments either even though people like the Dallas police chief are begging for qualified recruits to sign up. Philadelphia too. Guess the diverse
Coalition doesn't want to deal with black violent crime. They are cowards

shiloh said...

"I was asked by multiple commenters to return. I recognized the names and did so. I have avoided poking sticks into your cages so as to give you little incentive to lash out."

Bullshit, give names or STFU. Yea, they're just aren't enough incoherent cons here so "they" asked you to return. You're definitely a legend in your own mind.

>

And let the record show MK agrees he's a medical fool! And longs to be a KGB agent interrogating people w/unknown profiles.

How pathetic!

buwaya puti said...

Actually I have been posting for many years, since the Usenet days, and have posted/argued with many of the blogging fraternity on most of the liberal sites. Its a bad habit of mine.

Few of them can actually argue I have found.

I have been buwaya on Freerepublic for at least a dozen years now. Thats a great site as a news aggregator.

shiloh said...

"It does give me some optimism about Tuesday."

Again bullshit as you have already predicted Trump will win a landslide victory ad nauseam.

But your old fuzzy memory has been failing you lately so "we" may cut you some slack.

buwaya puti said...

What is a "medical fool"?
Do you contest Mike K's medical career?
Thats silly; its an open record, he is public in his ID and he's obviously been an eminent physician.

shiloh said...

"Actually I have been posting for many years, since the Usenet days, and have posted/argued with many of the blogging fraternity on most of the liberal sites. Its a bad habit of mine.

Few of them can actually argue I have found.

I have been buwaya on Freerepublic for at least a dozen years now. Thats a great site as a news aggregator."

bp seriously, nobody cares about your addictive political blogging history!

Achilles said...

And someone give Achilles a hug 'cause he has become a certifiable lunatic.

Time to put on another sock so you can agree with yourself.

Obama explicitly encourages illegals to vote.

Hillary repeatedly directed her maid to print out classified materials.

Bill Clinton is a rapist.

You support rape and the destruction of the rule of law. You are a disgusting human being. You have no soul.

See you on the battlefield. I bet you are nowhere to be seen though. You strike me as a physical coward as well as a moral coward.

buwaya puti said...

It would be interesting to hear of your background Shiloh, as to your standing and knowledge and experience.

shiloh said...

bp, when you're in a hole, stop digging ...

Matthew Sablan said...

Eh. With Comey saying finding only a few new emails, some of which were classified on a non secure device in a non cleared person's possession that under oath was sworn to not exist and they STILL won't charge Clinton, despite emails telling her maid to print classified documents, the election is over. The political organization won't let her lose

Matthew Sablan said...

Any recount she requested will go until she wins, no matter how blatantly illegal. We're just going through the motions now.

Michael K said...

"Bring your AR-15. And, maybe a handgun or two. "

I think I will take the 1911 Colt. The AR 15 is a bit of overkill, so to speak. Once over the border, I will be in an open carry state.

I love Tucson and we are house hunting. Our daughter, the middle one, was here last night and wants us to let her see the house before we buy. We are most interested in two she has already been through.

Sholoh seems to be an expert on holes.

shiloh said...

"the election is over"

The election was over when Rep primary voters, like yourself, nominated Trump, a nihilistic egomaniac, pathological liar, authoritarian misogynistic bigot!

Congrats!

Matthew Sablan said...

I did not vote for Trump. I still may not vote for him. Despite the disaster Clinton will be.

shiloh said...

Let the record show Matthew Sablan may not be one of Hillary's deplorables. Stay tuned!

buwaya puti said...

Professionally, I have mainly dealt with the drilling of holes, not the digging, which perhaps you may know something about?

So Shiloh, show us your papers please. Professional and educational and vocational credentials.

tim in vermont said...

nihilistic egomaniac, pathological liar, authoritarian oikophobic bigot!

Hillary in a nutshell.

Yet it appears Clinton was never asked by the FBI in its yearlong investigation to turn over the iMac Santos used to receive the e-mails, or the printer she used to print out the documents, or the printouts themselves.

Jeezum. It's almost like the guy heading the investigation at the FBI had recently received a half a million dollars from one of Clinton's wealthy cronies! Wait a minute! That happened!

tim in vermont said...

Do we actually know who told Hillary she could use a private email? And has that person been drawn and quartered?

Like whole thing is fucking insane.


Email to John Podesta.

Enjoy the impeachment, shiloh, if she pulls it out. The House ain't going Dem, neither, likely is the Senate. And guess what? I think even the Dems are going to be so tired of this shit that they will vote to convict.

Sydney said...

I think a lot of people are feeling the angst that Gingrich describes. There's a story in our local paper today that a church in town is going to have a "post election healing service." All denominations and political persuasions welcome. Then this morning at mass, the priest led us in a Hail,Mary for the nation. Strangely, I'm not feeling the angst this time around. I resigned myself a few years ago, to the fact that this is no longer the country it once was, and there's no going back. We have lost the republic. So, I just focus on my own little corner of the world and ignore the politicians and the media. There may come a time when I can no longer make a living here and have to leave, but I will not grieve if it comes to that. Eight years ago I would not have been able to say that.

mockturtle said...

I love Tucson and we are house hunting. Our daughter, the middle one, was here last night and wants us to let her see the house before we buy. We are most interested in two she has already been through.

Tucson is lovely. It is distinctly Liberal compared with the Phoenix area and also has a higher crime rate. I have a good friend who bought a house in NE Tucson last year and is happy with her choice. Lots of cultural opportunities and good restaurants. Green Valley, south of Tucson, is especially nice. My late husband and I considered moving there.

Michael K said...

"It is distinctly Liberal compared with the Phoenix area and also has a higher crime rate."

Oh yes. It has an interesting mixture. The University provides the left and the military the right.

The retirees are mostly gone now because the ZIRP has cratered interest rates and those whose pensions were invested in bonds got clobbered. It has kept the housing cheap. The houses we are looking at are around $400 k and would be $2 million in Orange County,

The crime that I have read about in local papers seems to involve Hispanic areas and drugs. I had a house there when my youngest was going to U of A and have been pretty familiar with the city for 20 years. House prices have still not recovered from 2008.

Phoenix is quite a bit more scary to me. Everybody I know in Phoenix tells me how they love Tucson. A lot of them work in Phoenix and would like to live in Tucson,

I was working in Phoenix last week and might be able to do so a day or two a week from Tucson. It is 90 miles but LA traffic is so bad the commute would be about the same time.

Michael K said...

Where I work in Phoenix is downtown and the local street population is much more sketchy than Tucson.

shiloh said...

"So Shiloh, show us your papers please. Professional and educational and vocational credentials."

My esteemed educational prowess aside, let the record show bp and MK are peas in a pod ie if you don't have a highly educated google profile you aren't capable of intelligent debate at Althouse.

Whereas I would somewhat agree w/the premise, who wants to go all hoity-toity and eliminate 75 to 80% of Althouse conservatives who frequent this blog daily.

Indeed, let freedom of speech ring:

And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.

Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.

Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.

Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.

But not only that:

Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.

From every mountainside, let freedom ring.


And not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, social position, personal background, etc.

Apologies to MLK, Jr.

Unknown said...

I just want to observe that Shiloh's in favor of Satan, since her standard for Clinton is "Conservatives hate her, so she's got to be great!"

That standard means Shiloh loves Hitler, Stalin, Satan, Pol Pot, Kim Jong ill, a variety of Aztec priests, and Moloch.

Congratulations on being on those peoples side, Shiloh! May you be treated by them exactly as you deserve.

--Vance

buwaya puti said...

I repeat, oh Shiloh, show yours, do not wiggle, you are on the hook.

Because it does matter, and its not just diplomas.
Have you done something, obtained a source of knowledge or wisdom, experience in relevant matters, a sense of perspective, knowledge in some field?

A reason to be listened to in real life?
Something?

Or even an argument, some proof or rebuttal, some revelation of fallacies through logic, some facts independently discovered. Impress us.

Because there does need to be some reason to berate your betters.

mockturtle said...

Shiloh, I would advise you to avoid a war of words with buwaya. He is far better armed.

Michael K said...

" if you don't have a highly educated google profile you aren't capable of intelligent debate at Althouse."

I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man (or women although you sound male).

Ken B said...

Speaking as A Canadian I am amazed at the ignorance of American history. Never been so divided? Leave aside the kerfuffle in the 1860s. There was a mass exodus of loyalists after 1776. There was effectively a small war in the South in the 1870s. There were pitched battles with police in The Gilded Age. Candidates were jailed under Wilson, there were major riots in the 1960s.

buwaya puti said...

1860-65 seems to be the earliest previous time when such a degree of division prevailed between similarly large groups of the population. The other cases involved small disaffected or put-upon minorities. These did not constitute a crisis of legitimacy within the general society.

In other countries at other times what we have here at this time in the US, the emotional weight of the mutual disregard plus the substansive matters at issue, have indeed caused civil wars.

Michael K said...

The Loyalists left during a revolution. They chose the other side. One was Benjamin Franklin's son.

What we have now has some similarity in that the ruling class does not have the confidence of the people. THe people are of two persuasions in politics, left and right. While I disagree with the left, I understand their feelings which were manifested by the Bernie Sanders phenomenon. Hillary represents a crony class consisting of those who have benefited from crony capitalism and those who benefit as employees of a boated public sector.

There is very little philosophical difference as there was at the American Revolution. Had Franklin been treated respectfully in London in 1768 to 1770, there might never have been a revolution.

Michael K said...

"bloated public sector."

Rick Caird said...

As far as I know, federal employee unions were authorized by JFK in an EO. This has never been supported by any legislation. Hence, if the employees and their unions act up, then a President Trump could revoke the EO and then fire any employee ( a la Reagan and the ATC). Then they can be cleared from government buildings and those who wish to work can go to work. Those that don't will be unemployed.

Molly said...

I know I'm late to the party, but I like SteveR's (at 11:54 am) comment so much I wanted to say Yes, Yes.

There is an entrenched bureaucracy. I don't think we should think of it so much as "leftist" (though almost all are philosophically and self-interestedly opposed to "small government"), as we should recognize that it is regulators "captured" but the regulated. A bureaucrat working for the office that supports prices for dairy farmers lives in an environment where the bosses have lunch with, or attend conventions to speak to, people who represent dairy farmers. There is a general point of view that "we are doing good" that "dairy farmers are hard working people who need our help". The idea that "dairy farmers don't need government assistance" is an idea that simply does not arise in conversations or self-reflection.

I can (barely) imagine a tough minded (ideological?) administrator bringing some bureaucrats to heel. Chris Christy as Attorney General might be able to force DoJ to investigate/prosecute IRS corruption, or voter fraud/voter ID, or Clinton Foundation. But I don't think even the most tough minded AG could take on more than 3 (perhaps more than 1 or 2).

Trump, more than Clinton, would put in place aggressive Cabinet/sub-Cabinet personnel who might reverse a few (though a few very important) policies. And I suppose there is opportunity for an aggressive white house staff to use executive orders to counter Obama, and even use Obama techniques in the opposite way (we use prosecutorial digression to decide that no Title IX actions will be brought, for example).

shiloh said...

"Shiloh, I would advise you to avoid a war of words with buwaya. He is far better armed."

Then why does he frequent a pedestrian con political blog? Surely he can do better.

>

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man"

MK, alas you used that tired dinosaur phrase a few times previously.

Please, I beseech you, come into the 21st century. All are welcome. Or at least the late 20th century.

>

Churchill and Mark Twain are rollin' over in their graves and Shakespeare is mumbling, You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things ~ O you hard hearts, you cruel men of Rome.

tim in vermont said...

shilo is self-ridiculing. No need to bother. He sounds like he is 13.

Unknown said...

Ah, I see the Althouse conservatives are in a bad mood after hearing about the investigation being closed at long last and no indictment, lol.

shiloh said...

"Speaking as A Canadian I am amazed at the ignorance of American history. Never been so divided? Leave aside the kerfuffle in the 1860s. There was a mass exodus of loyalists after 1776. There was effectively a small war in the South in the 1870s. There were pitched battles with police in The Gilded Age. Candidates were jailed under Wilson, there were major riots in the 1960s."

And after Cheney/Bush were caught w/their pants down on 9/11, Bush had a 90% job approval rating. How the hell did that happen.

Of course Oct. 2008 Bush had 24% job approval rating and a 71% job disapproval rating highest in presidential history as all fame is fleeting.

I digress.

The yin/yang of politics!

buwaya puti said...

Molly,

You are correct. The bureaucracy is so extremely bloated that a new, even talented and energetic leadership would find itself tied down into reforming just a few matters, however important. The rest of that mass would still be busy expanding their powers. These things are simply too large to be centrally controllable.

There was a cheesy old monster movie "The Blob", about, well, a blob, that flowed through or around anything and ate it, getting bigger and bigger. Thats the bureaucracy. It cannot be stopped by killing parts of it.

Michael K said...

"you used that tired dinosaur phrase a few times previously."

Only when appropriate. Dinosaurs did not make the same mistakes over and over. At least that's what they told me.

lb said...

To paraphrase Shakespeare..Buwaya Puti would challenge Shiloh to a battle of wits..but he can see Shiloh is unarmed.

Michael The Magnificent said...

Bullshit, give names or STFU.

I am one of those who asked Michael K to return, and thanked him when he did.

narciso said...

lol, it would be like otto from 'fish called wanda' outside of the American civil war, we have other examples, like the nationalists over the socialists, in spain, or the cold insurgency re allende, that turned hot after 1973,

lb said...

Really hard to see people laughing about the obvious corruption in the DOJ FBI and IRS. At some point they will also come for you..won't be quite as funny then I imagine.

Darrell said...

I'm glad Michael K returned. Althouse wasn't the same without him. shitlow? He could go back to the International Date Line and stay there.

Chuck said...

mockturtle said...
Where is Chuckles?


I voted. I have voted, via absentee ballot in Michigan. I'd say that I voted for Trump, but I didn't, technically. I voted a straight Republican ticket. So without putting a mark next to the names of Donald J. Trump and Michael Pence, they got my vote as the Republican nominees. Along with all other Republicans on the partisan portion of my ballot.

So the short-fingered vulgarian got my vote. I voted for the insulting, ignorant, laughable Trump. Mostly, I voted for the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee doing judicial selections for the next four years. Substantively, that is what I was voting for. And I was voting against the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee being given any equivalent powers.

damikesc said...

He won't win...but I hope Trump doesn't concede and continues blasting her.

Bad Lieutenant said...

shiloh said...
"I was asked by multiple commenters to return. I recognized the names and did so. I have avoided poking sticks into your cages so as to give you little incentive to lash out."

Bullshit, give names or STFU.

Ooh ooh me too!

Pity asking you to leave wouldn't work.

Shiloh really could be ignored by all. I think he fits the definition of trolling wherein there is no positive value he offers. He never has anything to say worth saying.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Damikesc, stay the course.

Matthew Sablan, don't throw away your chance to strike the only blow she will ever feel, a vote for Donald Trump. A vote for Johnson or McMullin or Bill'n'Opus will be perceived by her as tickles. Only a vote against her and for Trump, her prime opponent, will be registered as pain.

Chuck, your state is in play. How do you like them apples?

Michael K said...

I'm mildly interested in the level of anger I see in shiloh and, to some extent, in sunsong,

Why make the nasty personal insults after bragging about how your candidate is assured of winning ?

I really don't know how the election will go. It is not a done deal for Hillary but I am concerned about the propensity of Democrats to cheat and even brag about it.

Either way, I am prepared. I am more concerned about California and the coming storm with all the misrule by Democrats.

It's a good time to move to Arizona.

Harold said...

Eric the Fruit Bat said...
I can think of only two movies where two guys dance with one girl.

Bande à part (1964).

My Fair Lady (1964).


Someone can correct me if I'm totally wrong, but I'm pretty sure I saw it happen in 1941, resulting in a tremendous free for all.

mockturtle said...

I agree that tonight's trolls are being particularly nasty. Fear, perhaps?

mockturtle said...

Chuck! Thanks for chucking in! :-) Glad you did your part to stop the Hellary and her Satanic sycophants. I'm pretty certain the GOP will hold the House and the Senate. Let us hope they actually DO something with that situation. For a change.

Mike said...

I'm for Michael K returning. Garage would be welcome too. Nice to see Fen back as well.

Scott said...

Every revolution in world history was a popular response to oppressive government corruption.

narciso said...

well definitely on the former, I don't know why garage hasn't returned,

shiloh said...

Damn, Althouse sore loser cons whining even before votes are counted. As per usual. As always, Althouse provides a 24/7 platform for conservatives to cry, moan and groan. Thank goodness as we don't want her blessed dears going postal.

And MK, a few lonely souls really do miss you which is truly pathetic.

Strength in #s eh. Althouse cons unite in your everlasting sorrow!

shiloh said...

"I really don't know how the election will go."

Again MK you have mentioned several times Trump will have a landslide victory. Are you senile? Rhetorical.

shiloh said...

MK, please look up the definition of lurking!

>

btw, ARM, Inga & pb&j did not miss you. Go figure!

shiloh said...

Chuck's tone is one reason I quit commenting for a time and am limiting my comments to short statements.

MK, please define short statements and if Chuck calls you an asshole will you leave permanently?

Michael The Magnificent said...

I'm for Michael K returning. Garage would be welcome too. Nice to see Fen back as well.

Agreed on Michael K and Fen.

Not so much for Garage. I see your secret router, and raise you a secret email server.

shiloh said...

"Agreed on Michael K and Fen. Not so much for Garage."

Indeed, as M The M wants to keep this blog a 100% con echo chamber. Hey, you're almost there.

narciso said...

if you offer interesting perspectives on this crazy way, like richard fernandez,

https://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2016/11/06/why-ill-vote-for-donald-trump/

cutting and pasting from politico or the new york times, which hasn't an original notion in 20 years doesn't cut it,

Michael The Magnificent said...

Indeed, as M The M wants to keep this blog a 100% con echo chamber.

You are neither intellectually honest nor interesting so you hold no value to me. You wouldn't be missed.

Martin said...

I do not get this "endless investigations" thing--- no matter what happens, Obama pardons a whole lot of people before he leaves office.

narciso said...

it's a trope, the investigations against watts, pierce, et al, went on forever with little result, they took up the dissent in morrison v. olson and ran with it, it doesn't work the other way though, libby had to be sacrificed, just because,

gadfly said...

Trump supporters have huge conspiracy quotients. Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit posts a still picture of a postal worker approaching a Trump campaign sign in a vacant field with his USPS van parked behind the mailman and the headline reads: "Caught on Camera => Postal Worker Caught Stealing Trump Signs."

It was a Twitter post instructing the reader to check the vehicle but there is nothing to see in the photo except an open sliding door. There certainly are no signs to be seen inside. Teh big finish -"Now you know where your lawn signs are going."

Sad journalism. 117 sympathetic responses. The Trump Trolls write in short blubs like Trump speaks. I used to read Jim Holt and I was rooting for him when he had bigtime medical problems. Now I wonder how much he gets paid by the Trump Campaign. The blog is full of this BS.

gadfly said...

An election thought - Vote Your Conscience but only after watching this "advice from European Parliament Backbencher Daniel Hannan:

Rusty said...

mockturtle said...
"I agree that tonight's trolls are being particularly nasty. Fear, perhaps?"

No. Just the usual smug superiority. You know. Like the 16 year old popular girls in high school. There is going to be massive vote fraud on the left because the president said it's OK and the usual suspects are just fine with that.
I don't know how old Shiloh is but I'm certain she is still a popular 16 year old girl.

GWash said...

one saving grace about worrying about this point of view is that Gingrich is a DOPE... probably the most over rated politician in Washington...

GWash said...

and i hope all the good folks here will publish any and all voter fraud fears (with proof) so we can lay this to rest.... it would also be nice to have a voter suppression conversation here some day...

Rusty said...

GWash said...
and i hope all the good folks here will publish any and all voter fraud fears (with proof) so we can lay this to rest.... it would also be nice to have a voter suppression conversation here some day...

I'm from Chicago

I give you the presidents latest speech.
Encouraging illegals to vote.
Not even trying to hide it any more.

GWash said...

i would like proof of voter fraud... if it exists, is extensive and affects the outcome...i'll join you in your protest... so far all of the examples i've seen on this blog come down to nothing.. voter with the same name as a dead person etc...

Michael K said...

Now I wonder how much he gets paid by the Trump Campaign. The blog is full of this BS.


I assume you anticipate a nice job in the Hillary administration. Good work. However, your sense of smell seems impaired.

shiloh said...

"i would like proof of voter fraud... if it exists, is extensive and affects the outcome...i'll join you in your protest... so far all of the examples i've seen on this blog come down to nothing.. voter with the same name as a dead person etc..."

Once Written, twice would say: You'd never convince Althouse hillbillies that there isn't yuuuuuge voter fraud!

>

As dinosaur MK chimes in w/his daily implausible incoherency.

Chuck said...

Don't believe any of that bullshit about why Michael K "quit commenting for a time." It was because he repeatedly attacked me personally, with nasty, baseless, low-grade comments about psychiatric treatment and psychiatric medications. And I responded that perhaps his medical professional societies might take an interest in one of their fellows who attacked members of the public in that fashion. There are medical/professional ethical rules against that sort of thing.

We're coming to the end of this shit-show. I have effectively cast my reluctant and unenthusiastic vote for Trump. I won't take any blame for a landslide Trump loss. Afterward, we'll begin the fight for the future of the Republican Party. Where congressional Republicans will hold all of the weaponry. And Trumpism will have nothing. Nothing, that is, apart from Breitbart News and Sean Hannity. We'll see how much longer Sean Hannity has a show on Fox.

Roughcoat said...

I recommend, again, the first three chapters of Anthony Beevor's "Battle for Spain".

Hugh Thomas's book is better.

Roughcoat said...

[T]here will be a continuing fight over who controls the country. I think that we are in for a long, difficult couple of years...

Bring it on.

Bring. It.

Chuck said...

Oh, and further to the point about Michael K's false and offensive attacks against me about needing "medication," please note the immediately preceding post on the Althouse blog, wherein NYU deans seemed to suggest psychiatric re-education for a conservative anti-p.c. faculty member:

https://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/11/they-are-actually-pushing-me-out-door.html

Rusty said...

GWash said...
i would like proof of voter fraud... if it exists, is extensive and affects the outcome...i'll join you in your protest... so far all of the examples i've seen on this blog come down to nothing.. voter with the same name as a dead person etc...

Motorvoter doesn't raise any suspicions?

You're just adorable.