August 24, 2016

"He doesn't mean we're going to make America great again. He means: We're going to make America straight and and and white."

Said Cher to an adoring, raucous audience at a Hillary fundraiser in Provincetown, Massachusetts. I've already blogged about this here, focusing on what Cher said about Hillary. This new post is about what she said about Trump. The transcription (from this video) is mine.
"He wants the crowds. He wants the adulation. He doesn't give a shit about the world.... He doesn't mean we're going to make America great again. He means: We're going to make America straight and and and white.... He just says the weirdest shit in that kind of bizarre thing..." 
Cher made the observation — as have others — that Trump said "LGBTQ" as if he'd only recently learned that letter sequence and she leaps from that straight to: "I just think he's a fucking idiot." The crowd erupts in laughter, applause, and even quite a bit of squealing and screaming.

Then Cher wants to tell us about who Trump reminds her of. At first she thought: "Oh, despots. You know: Stalin, Hitler." But that wasn't quite it, even though Hitler did say he was "going to make Germany great again." The comparison she that seemed perfectly apt to her was Patty McCormick in "The Bad Seed."
"Consummate liar, doesn’t care who she hurts, insane and, you know, sociopathic narcissist."
The feminine pronouns are confusing. Don't forget we're talking about Trump, not Hillary. Patty McCormick in "The Bad Seed" is female and Trump is like her. To remind us this is about Trump, she blurts out a death wish:
"I just wish he’d fall off the face of the earth."
Did you think death wishes weren't allowed? Well, Cher's audience roared with approval. Whether they knew the old movie, I don't know. It's from 1956. (You can watch the whole thing on line, here.) It's kind of a cult movie, and they probably know Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, which might be named after "The Bad Seed."

It's the classic movie about an evil child, but the child is a blonde girl, a girl who lacks any warmth, so it's beyond me why Cher would bring it up in the vicinity of Hillary and expect us to think of Trump... other than that she's with an adoring audience within the embrace of Provincetown. It must all feel so good to her.

She finishes with:
"I know that if he got into office, our world would be the worst place. I don’t think we could imagine how bad it could get. If breaking news ever happened and he had to go to the podium, we would just all go... fuck."
Big laugh. The irony of rough speech to denounce a man who's mostly denounced for his rough speech is beyond the realm of the Cher comfort zone.

203 comments:

1 – 200 of 203   Newer›   Newest»
Rob said...

No, Cher left school at the age of 16. Stay in school, kids.

Mike Sylwester said...

According to the Wikipedia article about Cher, she has dyslexia and dropped out of high school at age 16.

PB said...

Typically echo-chamber talk by celebrities craving attention. They have to make ever more increasingly outlandish claims to top the next person. The audience doesn't care. It's a red-meat diet to them blessed by their religion. I firmly believe modern US liberalism is a religion.

Todd said...

Well taking political advice from Cher is like taking environmental advice from Leonardo DiCaprio. Just saying...

Curious George said...

I'm thinking Sonny aimed for that tree.

Sebastian said...

"Consummate liar, doesn’t care who she hurts, insane and, you know, sociopathic narcissist." Don't get her started on O and his Iran ransom lies.

"she blurts out a death wish: "I just wish he’d fall off the face of the earth." Did you think death wishes weren't allowed? Well, Cher's audience roared with approval." What do you mean? Of course, they are allowed, provided they target non-progs. See Nicholson Baker, Checkpoint; also the movie, Death of a President. The left wishes death on all opponents.

"The irony of rough speech to denounce a man who's mostly denounced for his rough speech is beyond the realm of the Cher comfort zone" What do you mean, "irony"? In prog linguistics, the validity of denunciations and the awfulness of rough speech are strictly situational. They don't do irony.

Todd said...

Also, do we really want the first "First Gentleman" ever, to be a repeat rapist?

Oh sure, he hasn't been "convicted" but even Hillary says we should always believe the accuser(s)!

mockturtle said...

Why would any rational person give a fat rat's ass what Cher thinks?

Gusty Winds said...

Who cares what Cher thinks? Who really cares what anybody in Hollywood thinks?

But, unlike Elizabeth Warren, Cher does have traceable ancestry to Cherokee ancestry through her mother.

320Busdriver said...

In the fantastical parlance of Frank Zappa...."we are dumb all over" Cher is proof of it.

eric said...

I'm pretty sure she gave this same exact speech about Romney, and McCain, she has just changed the names.

khesanh0802 said...

Provincetown is the whitest, and self-proclaimed queerest, town in the US. Very safe place to pick on Trump. Of course Cher's whole life has been lived as one of the straightest of the straights so we should all treasure her value judgements.

Nonapod said...

Trying to parse Cher's excited proclamations on Donald Trump made in front of an adoring crowd seems like trying to perform brain surgery on a field cricket: A lot of effort for no apparent purpose.

Fernandinande said...

Since when do trees have the right-of-way?

Curious George said...

"Gusty Winds said...
But, unlike Elizabeth Warren, Cher does have traceable ancestry to Cherokee ancestry through her mother."

True, but it still doesn't justify this.

YoungHegelian said...

We're going to make America straight and and and white.

Please do tell, Cher, just how many blacks were in that audience in P'town?

Ann Althouse said...

"Why would any rational person give a fat rat's ass what Cher thinks?"

Because she appeared with Hillary, introducing Hillary. It would be fine for her to say these things on her own.

And for the record, I love Cher and I've loved her for 50 years, from when I first saw her and Sonny on my black and white TV, on (I think it was) "Where the Action Is."

tomaig said...

Saw this movie on TCM a few weeks back...the evil child is a blond, adored-by-everyone moppet who - for a penmanship medal - pushed a classmate into the harbor, and beat his hands with her shoes as he tried to cling to the seawall....She then locks the handyman in the basement and set it on fire.
But to all the world, this girl is a sweet innocent little pigtailed 8-year old...
More like Hillary than Trump....the banal exterior conceals a heart of pure evil.

Quaestor said...

The irony of rough speech to denounce a man who's mostly denounced for his rough speech is beyond the realm of the Cher comfort zone.

Irony is outside Cher's IQ percentile.

Brent said...

I would hate Cher if I didn't feel so stinkin sorry for her. She is famous but so mentally slow, even stupid. Unqualified more than the average citizen, she has zero accomplishments/experiences that qualify her as someone with anything of value to be listened to regarding American politics. Her audience enjoys her statements because they are already in hateful agreement, but they truly regard her as a show monkey, "look at the famous star make disjointed stupid comments!" What a sad, regretful waste of humanity. So heartbreaking.

n.n said...

Cher is a class diversitist with peculiar exclusions. Clinton should denounce her rabid denigration of individual dignity and advocacy for congruence.

mockturtle said...

And for the record, I love Cher and I've loved her for 50 years, from when I first saw her and Sonny on my black and white TV, on (I think it was) "Where the Action Is."

Yes, Cher is quite talented. Her performance in Moonstruck was remarkable. But why should anyone care what she THINKS?

gspencer said...

Cher would be well advised to go online and buy a pair of those Listen Clear hearing devices (advertised on Rush's show).

She's hearing things that just ain't so. DJT has said none of what Cher "thinks" he said.


[BTW, of the two of them, Sonny was the better person.]

Quaestor said...

The death of little Claude Daigle is just the latest of a string of sudden and mysterious deaths that follow the career of Rhoda Penmark, not unlike poor little Seth Rich. Julian Assange better not try any afternoon naps if he knows what's good for him.

David Begley said...

Cher, "I just wish he’d fall off the face of the earth."

Death threat. Inciting the crowd to commit violence. Unstable. Bad temperament.

Why doesn't Hillary distance herself from this woman? She should denounce Cher.

How is Cher different than David Duke? Duke can't sing, I guess.

Tommy Duncan said...

The fundraiser cost $27,000 for a "co-chair" attendee (the highest category). It is sad how far Hillary has fallen. A few years ago $27,000 wouldn't get you into the State Department parking lot.

Ficta said...

Wow. That final quote is the most honest expression of what the Democrats and the Republican Nevertrumpers are really worried about that I've seen: They don't like his style. He's not one of their class. He might embarrass them by speaking in public (just like Dad did when they were in high school).

And note that this embarrassment at his speaking style is what would make our world "the worst place". Not war, disease, natural or man made disasters, not political oppression or religious persecution; no, the worst thing would be Provincetown's embarrassment at Trump's speaking style. Good Lord!

Chuck said...

I'm just guessing that Professor Althouse would have a major fight with Cher on the notion of whether Trump is in fact pro-gay and merely being cagey about it.

JPS said...

"If breaking news ever happened and he had to go to the podium, we would just all go... fuck."

Wow. Cher truly gets it.

And by "it," I mean, how I've felt for the last seven and a half years.

Fernandinande said...

Gusty Winds said...
But, unlike Elizabeth Warren, Cher does have traceable ancestry to Cherokee ancestry through her mother.


My Jeep has 100% Cherokee ancestry. So it's Special.

David Begley said...

The Left is identity politics 24/7. That's all they've got.

Maybe the people at that fundraiser should think about taxes, trade, debt and ISIS.

Peter said...

""Consummate liar, doesn’t care who she hurts, insane and, you know, sociopathic narcissist."

That may get a roar from the crowd, but, it seems a mostly all-purpose, non-specific denunciation. Did it occur to Cher (or to anyone in the crowd) that it might be at least as good a fit for, umm, that other major party candidate who's running for President this year?

damikesc said...

Simple question for Cher:

Is there a single Republican she would not say the exact same thing about?

Since the answer is "no", I don't see why her over-emotional nonsense is useful.

According to the Wikipedia article about Cher, she has dyslexia and dropped out of high school at age 16.

Probably thought she was 61 and being in school for that long was silly.

Oh sure, he hasn't been "convicted" but even Hillary says we should always believe the accuser(s)!

She erased that off her site. Because adding "...unless Bill is involved" would've been a bit too much.

So, "Sluts probably had it coming" or something is the new Hillary mantra.

damikesc said...

And, white folks, please notice that they are using our race as an INSULT.

Why are we ALONE the only ones permitted to be treated in a racist and bigoted manner?

Fernandinande said...

Trump said "LGBTQ" as if he'd only recently learned that letter sequence

Lack of interest in a trivial non-issue is probably a good sign.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Hi Chuck! So, will you be betraying Trump at the polls this year?

David Begley said...

I hope Rush Limbaugh cites Althouse's transcript. It is nearly Hillary's 47% moment.

Bob Ellison said...

Cher's singing tendency is to drop in pitch the last syllable of every phrase. Unusual. It's the main quality that makes you think "That's Cher!" She has a milky voice that can sound identifiable even in prose, too.

Compare to Barbra Streisand's tendency to hit every note perfectly, both in pitch and in tone. Dolly Parton, same thing. These make them identifiable.

Cher's lecturing tendency is to be a leftist idiot.

David Begley said...

I would love to ask Cher who Hillary reminds her of?

J. D. said...

At least Trump would be at the podium if breaking news happened. When was Hillary's last press conference?

Titus said...

fyi-The Bad Seed is huge in the gay world. The audience definitely know what she was talking about and she knew they would.

Isn't Ptown fab?

Todd said...

tomaig said...
Saw this movie on TCM a few weeks back...the evil child is a blond, adored-by-everyone moppet who - for a penmanship medal - pushed a classmate into the harbor, and beat his hands with her shoes as he tried to cling to the seawall....She then locks the handyman in the basement and set it on fire.
But to all the world, this girl is a sweet innocent little pigtailed 8-year old...
More like Hillary than Trump....the banal exterior conceals a heart of pure evil.
8/24/16, 10:59 AM


Is that the one SPOILER ALERT...






Where she is struck by lightning in the end?

cubanbob said...

"damikesc said...
Simple question for Cher:

Is there a single Republican she would not say the exact same thing about?

Since the answer is "no", I don't see why her over-emotional nonsense is useful."

You have said all there is to say on the subject. As for the white comment, what is wrong with keeping the current demographic? Do we have a shortage of poor people? A labor shortage? A shortage of lower than average Northern European white IQ people? A shortage of criminals and terrorists?

MayBee said...

I'm going to bet Donald Trump was pro gay marriage before Hillary was.

buwaya said...

There are certainly two separate US populations that these days have very little in common.
Culture, education, trades (a much overlooked dividing line), all sorts of concrete interests.
There are daily fewer of these things where people straddle the lines, more are falling entirely on one side or another.
There are leftovers from when this wasn't the case, and people can still be confused by these.
Cher for instance.

Rusty said...

Uh. It's Cher.

buwaya said...

Cher is not stupid. She leveraged the celebrity Sonny got her into an independent career, mostly being famous for being famous, much like a proto-Kardashian. Sonny must have seemed like a drag -what was a schlub like that doing with glamorous Cher?
She does have some of her own talents of course, and the exotic elegance she was born with (moreso when she was young of course).

Her problem, and ours, is simply a divergence of interests. The audience that HRC was addressing seems to have been just these sorts of people with interests opposed to many if not most of Trumps supporters. Irreconcilable differences.
Much like with Cher and Sonny, after this point it may be time for a divorce.
Like with Cher and Sonny, this may lead to problems for "the kids".

Darrell said...

We tend to forget that most Hollywood celebrities are just Lefty lunatics.
Thanks for reminding us, Cher!

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Wasn't Cher the one who would display her midriff and wear outfits that made her look like a float in the Tournament of Roses parade?

I could be thinking of somebody else.

She was in some movies I never saw.

No, wait. I saw Mermaids.

Had Bob Hoskins in it.

I think her kid wanted to be a nun and Cher tells her that they're Jewish.

Maybe that's a joke that's funny to people who are Catholic or Jewish.

bigkat said...

they really do equate celebrity with IQ. Decades of being fawned over by sycophants and media keeps them from the awareness they are inversely gifted with sub par intelligence. similar to our soon departed CIC. he talks the talk but cant be coherent without you (babe) the teleprompter.

Darrell said...

Probably thought she was 61 and being in school for that long was silly.

No. She probably wrote "61" under age on a high school form and they processed her out. Teachers' union.

Char Char Binks said...

Is Cher white, or just Caucasian?

EMD said...

"was Patty McCormick in "The Bad Seed.""

Timely.

Virgil Hilts said...

Reminds me of Cameron Diaz' fears on Oprah: "We have a voice now, and we're not using it, and women have so much to lose. I mean, we could lose the right to our bodies. We could lo--if you think that rape should be legal, then don't vote. But if you think that you have a right to your body, and you have a right to say what happens to you and fight off that danger of losing that, then you should vote, and those are the..."
Well Bush won and they did not legalize rape.
When Cher says "our world would be the worst place" does that mean that we will now, finally, legalize rape if Trump is elected? But isn't rape only "legal" in certain countries (and certain communities in Europe) that practice Sharia law and isn't DT (contrary to HC) opposed to the immigration of Sharia advocates? I'm so confused.

tim in vermont said...

She was pretty good in that movie about the conjoined twins. "We're not Siamese dammit, we're American!'

jdniner said...

Glitter causes extreme shallowness in those that lack character. Surname loss syndrome.

buwaya said...

Cher (nee Sarkesian) interestingly was very much like Kardashian, the parallels are striking - Southern California Armenian dad - American "mutt" mother. Both are entirely "white" in spite of their looks (and claims re Cher, if she's Cherokee its a trifling amount), the exotic touch being Armenian. Both were the product of rather raffish parents, in each case on both sides apparently.

These do seem, at first glance, seem like a rather lightweight subject for ethno-cultural analysis, but they are more significant than they seem.

traditionalguy said...

Cher is Armenian on her father's side and part Cherokee Indian on her mother's side. Those were two groups that underwent near extermination a hundred years ago, and they honestly can feel a need to blame somebody.

But Trump's parents are later immigrants here, and they had NO connection to Armenian Genocide or to Cherokee Removal. So the brain damaged by drug use former Star is just projecting her hatreds onto the innocent.

Paul Snively said...

Char Char Binks: Is Cher white, or just Caucasian?

Depends.

She's Irish, English, German, and Cherokee on her mother's side, and there's no reasonable reading under which the Cherokee nation is Caucasian.

Her father, however, was Armenian-American (her given name is Cherilyn Sarkisian), and it would be hard to argue that the Armenians are not Caucasian, what with that whole "South Caucasus" thing.

So I'm reading a pretty insignificant connection to the Cherokee nation, a bunch of European Caucasian ethnicities, and half of her being the honest-to-goodness, no-joke definition of "Caucasian." If her father spoke Armenian, he spoke a language linguists believe to be a single generation removed from Proto-Indo-European, the ancestral language of... well, all the languages of Europe and south Asia.

But of course, none of this matters. All that matters is how she identifies. Well, that, and the all-important virtue signaling by contrast with a man she obviously knows not the first thing about.

gadfly said...

Curious George said...
I'm thinking Sonny aimed for that tree.

Sonny Bono was not married to Cher when he died in a skiing accident in 1998, but you probably already know that his fourth wife, Mary, was elected to replace Sonny in the U.S. House of Representatives.

jdniner said...

LGBTQ is old news isn't it? Isn't the new acronym about 13 letters? Only racists use the old version. Yesterdays version.

buwaya said...

"We tend to forget that most Hollywood celebrities are just Lefty lunatics."

It all makes sense in their context. They conform to the norms of their society to fit in, and they gain by it, or at least protect themselves. Their material interests don't suffer from their politics. In many ways their politics protects them and their industry, through various regulatory concessions. They are the products of a high degree of corporatism going back at least half a century.

They are loyal members of their side, which rewards them.

jdniner said...

I always met people who identified as Indian but lacked the required blood percentage.

From the Cherokee web page.

Today the Cherokee Nations is more than 315,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled direct ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll with a blood degree. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

buwaya said...

Cher has a half-sister, Georganne LaPiere (her mothers other daughter) who is blonde, and entirely "white". Cher's mother also appears entirely "white". So any Cherokee blood is not immediately apparent.

buwaya said...

If you want to "fix" Hollywood and the entertainment industry, Instapundit has the best ideas - change the law and regulations governing accounting, copyright, and other such material matters, and the incentives will change a great deal.

Bay Area Guy said...

He doesn't mean we're going to make America great again. He means: We're going to make America straight and and and white.

This is a lie, and a fundamental reason why I so dislike the left.

America was founded on IDEALS. Period. Full stop. Anyone, blacks, Mexicans, gays, Asians are welcome, as long as the IDEALS are reasonably sought.

Those IDEALS, roughly, are: private property, private enterprise, Judeo-Christian values, rule of law, Constitutional government, strong military.

Yes, America often failed to live up to those ideas, most glaringly with its treatment of blacks in the South.

Yes, we have many disputes about how and whether and under what circumstances we apply these IDEALS. But those IDEALS are worthwhile and should last.

Unless, of course, we desire to slouch into a socialist, atheist state, which often leads to upheaval, civil war and the seizure of the country by dictatorship. (See, Napoleon in France; see 1917 Russian Revolution; see numerous Banana Republics in South America.)

PB said...

Dyslexia is an over-claimed cause of poor students.

DougWeber said...

In my youth, having Hollywood celebrities on your side was proof you were reactionary and un-hip. But then then those were people like John Wayne.

Charlie said...

She's still alive???

Todd said...

PB said... [hush]​[hide comment]
Dyslexia is an over-claimed cause of poor students.

8/24/16, 12:37 PM


HYE, I serent taht statenemt!

P.S. The above is funny because I have dyslexia...

Charlie said...

I'm sure a lot of undecided voters were swayed in P-Town by this speech!

Anglelyne said...

To be fair to Hollywood airheads and their airhead audiences, I've know many, many intelligent, educated people, people competent and even distinguished in their chosen "brain work" fields, whose political views are no more deeply thought out than Cher's. These views are sometimes (sometimes) expressed in a more intellectually sophisticated style, but they are every bit as tribal, shallow, and emotionally based, when probed.

They even have the same group behavior of laughing and clapping with delight at the lamest comments and hoariest in-group jokes. (How many times can a person hear the same stale joke - I'm talking jokes recycled over decades, and people old enough to have heard the re-tailored joke a hundred times - and still even feign a laugh? Yet they do.)

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

The poor woman sounds deranged.

Renee said...

"Mean Girls"

I'm getting middle school PSTD reading Cher's speech.

Paddy O said...

Cher lived in Malibu until 2013. According to Wikipedia: The racial makeup of Malibu was 11,565 (91.5%) White (87.4% Non-Hispanic White),[65] 148 (1.2%) African American, 20 (0.2%) Native American, 328 (2.6%) Asian, 15 (0.1%) Pacific Islander, 182 (1.4%) from other races, and 387 (3.1%) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 769 persons (6.1%).

Cher bought a home in Beverly Hills in 2013. According to Wikipedia: The racial makeup of Beverly Hills was 28,112 (82.4%) White (78.6% Non-Hispanic White),[6] 746 (2.2%) African American, 48 (0.1%) Native American, 3,032 (8.9%) Asian, 12 (0.0%) Pacific Islander, 485 (1.4%) from other races, and 1,674 (4.9%) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1,941 persons (5.7%).

I don't have a study, but I highly suspect the great, great majority of her fans are white.

wholelottasplainin' said...

"But, unlike Elizabeth Warren, Cher does have traceable ancestry to Cherokee ancestry through her mother."



Yes, whined about in "Cherokee", one of the early "victimhood" songs. Simply dreadful.

Right down there with McCartney's "Live and Let Die."

Pure dreck.

GWash said...

Bay Area Guy, i'm sure you remember the US Civil war a result of American, Judeo Christian ideals... how about the treatment of native americans, Chinese, Irish..
I can't speak for Cher's political acumen but i guess her insights are about as deep as many i've read on this blog... to say that America and the Americans who wield power some times came up short in reaching your list of ideals is an understatement...
I am not a troll, i'm undecided and looking..
I am not Laslo

Martin said...

I am always impressed by stupid people imputing motives and psychological issues to people they have never talked to.

Unknown said...

This is as damaging to Trump as it was when Chachi came out against Hillary. I am pretty sure this is the final nail in the coffin.

Paddy O said...

Provincetown: the racial makeup of the town was 91.5% White, 4.0% African American, 0.6% Native American, 0.6% Asian, 1.6% from other races, and 1.7% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 4.8% of the population.

Curious George said...

"He doesn't mean we're going to make America great again. He means: We're going to make America straight and and and white."

You know....

mockturtle said...

Anglelyne, the difference is that those to whom you refer aren't publicly campaigning for a presidential candidate.

I love sports and love to watch athletes ply their skills but I don't want to hear their political views. It distresses me that Russell Wilson and Ciara switched their wedding venue from North Carolina to protest toilet-gender policies. This had to be Ciara's idea. Yes, they have a 'bully pulpit' and freedom of speech. But we don't have to like it. It distracts from their real talent, IMO.

GWash said...

Paddy O ... what's your point?...i'm sure she has fans of all sorts... including caucasians...
I'm not a big cher fan... although she her list of awards including 1 oscar win and another nomination plus a long list of other awards.. her body of work is pretty awesome and as all of us has a right to speak up ... don't begrudge her because her megaphone is larger that yours or mine...

Unknown said...

So, he gets some of his own medicine. Cher would be the one to do it.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

GWash said...

I am not a troll, i'm undecided and looking..

I think the term you are looking for is either questioning or transitioning.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

NTTAWWT

TA said...

If Ms Althouse is trolling, mostly people took the bait.

Fernandinande said...

tomaig said...
Saw this movie on TCM a few weeks back..


In the book and play the evil kid got away with everything and the mom died. To meet the "Motion Picture Production Code" requirement to produce morality plays, they changed the ending of the movie.

buwaya said...

"White" is a continuum, and I suppose the definition is extremely fuzzy at the edges.
As can be seen in Cavalli-Sforzas gradients, Eurasian populations transition gradually from Europe proper through the Urals-Caucasus-Anatolia to Siberia, Central Asia and India.
So Armenia, like Turkey and Iran, is on the continuum. The Turks are at about the same degree of divergence from Europe on this 2-d field. The Persians are further along, the Afghans more so, etc. to Pakistan and Northwest India.
I don't know how one would draw the line, and where.
In any of these populations - Armenia, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Northwest India, there are large numbers of individuals who would pass as "white"-European by any appearance standard, and even more who would have to be rated as "almost".

gadfly said...

Ficta said...
Wow. That final quote is the most honest expression of what the Democrats and the Republican Nevertrumpers are really worried about that I've seen: They don't like his style. He's not one of their class. He might embarrass them by speaking in public (just like Dad did when they were in high school).

And note that this embarrassment at his speaking style is what would make our world "the worst place". Not war, disease, natural or man made disasters, not political oppression or religious persecution; no, the worst thing would be Provincetown's embarrassment at Trump's speaking style. Good Lord!


It must take a wild imagination to interlock Cher's expressed opposition to Donald to somehow relate to us NeverTrumpers; we oppose Trump's liberal programs, his narcissism and his congenital lying. It is not his speaking style, as grating as it is, that turns us off when we immediately recognize that his character can never stand up to conservative principles.

Capeesh?

YeeHaw! said...

I don't remember Trump giving any spittle-flecked anti-gay tirades. I thought he was pretty gay-friendly.

being LGBT friendly doesn't seem to really cut any ice one way or another . Dick Cheney didn't get praise for being pro-gay marriage way back when, and Hillary doesn't get dinged for "evolving" quite recently, nor for letting Bill sign DOMA back in the '90s

Seems like a pseudo-issue. An excuse, not a reason, to discount a republican or support a democrat.

buwaya said...

"when we immediately recognize that his character can never stand up to conservative principles."

There are conservative principles?
This in itself is worth a discussion.
I assume you are familiar with Russell Kirk?

Hagar said...

I think the idea of a "Caucasian" race came from a 19th century (or earlier) theory that the European peoples originated in the Caucasus.

When the Army told me to fill in the box with "Cau," I protested and said, "No, no. I am Norwegian, not Russian!" And they said, "Do as you're told or we will court martial you, Hagar. You are 'Caucasian'."

Last week I saw an article referring to Mexicans as "Caucasian," and it went "clank" in my mind. I see "Mexicans" as "White" in the sense of not "Black" and not "Indian" and not "Anglo," but "Caucasian" is discordant.

richardsson said...

Well, Cher is asking for it so here it is: if it hadn't been for Sonny Bono dropping into the Culver City See's Candy Store to buy a box of chocolates, Cher would still be selling See's Candy or doing something similar. Or maybe doing dykes on motorcycles movies. Like so many celebrities these days, she thinks she can be vulgar one day (displaying vagina tattoos) and then be considered an authority right up there with Aristotle on morals and politics. Earlier this year, I noticed by the checkout stands that Cher was said by the National Enquirer to be near death. She looks pretty healthy to me other than being her usual stupid self. I guess as life goes on, it gets harder and harder to get attention. Being a celebrity is such a hard work.

EDH said...

Did Cher mock Donald Trump's hair?

I doubt it given that thing on her head.

buwaya said...

The Mexicans are one (or several really) of another set of complex cases, that of mestizos.
The case of the Armenians is of the gradients of genetic divergence of long-standing native populations. The Mexicans are one of interbreeding of long-diverged populations.

You will find plenty of Mexicans who will pass as "white" by most reasonable standards. Thats why Anthony Quinn got to play Greeks, though in a Mexican context it is apparent that he has the classic Mexican "look" (its that nose, among other things). My wife is 1/4 Native American by genetic analysis, which makes sense as her father was Mexican. White?

Anglelyne said...

Bay Area Guy: America was founded on IDEALS. Period. Full stop. Anyone, blacks, Mexicans, gays, Asians are welcome, as long as the IDEALS are reasonably sought.

Those IDEALS, roughly, are: private property, private enterprise, Judeo-Christian values, rule of law, Constitutional government, strong military.


No, not quite. Dumb ol' Cher hits tangentially on a truth, even if she's too dumb to grasp its import. Does one have to be of European (or Western European, or British Protestant, or however you want to restrict it) background to be an American? No, but that doesn't mean that American culture is based only on a set of abstractions, immediately explicable and easily adoptable by anyone from anywhere. The values you list can be defined in the abstract, but they arose out of real, live, specific cultural traditions, rooted in history and the experience of a people, and these concepts are made up as much of tacit cultural assumptions as they are of explicit abstract procedural understanding. Respect for "rule of law" is a cultural habit, and habits have to be learned, not just signed on to in the abstract.

That's why we used to insist on "Americanization" and assimilation, and why too many, too fast, allied to the mindless worship of "diversity" and "multiculturalism" breaks down the ability of newcomers to become genuinely enculturated. It's a real life, organic process, not just a set of IDEALS. Human beings are highly social, concrete beings, not abstractions, and we don't live within abstractions, but in flesh-and-blood cultures.

Americans in the past, for example, didn't have any problem telling Mormons, or anyone else who wanted to join the nation, that they couldn't practice polygamy. Why? Didn't Americans believe in freedom of religion? Were Americans "not who we are" back then for refusing to allow the practice of polygamy? ( I certainly don't think so, quite the contrary.)

Just ask people around the world just what is meant by, say, "freedom of religion". You'll get a variety of understandings about what that's supposed to mean, some of it markedly different from the average American understanding, even if all respondents tell you, yes, absolutely, they believe in "freedom of religion". So even an abstract ideal like "freedom of religion" isn't, well, an abstract ideal, but very much rooted in tacit cultural assumptions. And all these assumptions aren't compatible.

Trump appeals to that understanding, even if it's mostly unconscious, in people who've been "decultured" and fed progressive propaganda their whole lives, and who have a hard time articulating their discontents, because they can no longer, any more than "liberals" can, get out of the "if it ain't universalist it's 'racist'" thought frame.

Paddy O said...

"Paddy O ... what's your point?"

I don't begrudge her awards or her megaphone. I'm highlighting the fact that she lives in an almost all-white settings and speaking in a town that has an almost all white population.

A person who throws stones shouldn't live in an glass house with all-white trim.

In other words, my point is she's a hypocrite.

Anglelyne said...

mockturtle: Anglelyne, the difference is that those to whom you refer aren't publicly campaigning for a presidential candidate.

1. How do you know this?

2. At any rate, I was not defending Cher's behavior, and it's odd that you took what I wrote as such.

Hagar said...

Anthony Quinn could play anything, and did.

"Mexican" can go from 100%, or nearly so, Indian to 100%, or nearly so, Spanish. And I understand the dgree of mixture is very important in Mexico for reason of "caste."
But what is "Spanish"? Ancient Iberians, whatever they might have been, Basques, Greeks, Carthaginians (Phoenicians), Romans, Goths, Vandals, Berbers, Arabs, and yes, even "Blacks."

mockturtle said...

Well said, Anglelyne. And I strongly doubt whether the signers of the Constitution would have included, e.g., Wicca, when considering free practice of religion.

Mick said...

Amazingly these idiot "celebrities", who know nothing about real life, are OK with the Crooked Old Lady taking money in pay for play from countries that subjugate women and kill gays. All of them are complete idiots, and any "celebrity" that comes out as for the Cooked Old Lady loses my business and certainly the business of many others.

Rusty said...

Has anybody gotten Cartmans take on this?

mockturtle said...

Gender is NOT a spectrum but I believe race is.

GWash said...

no more hypocritical than mr trump lecturing the black community from afar? or actually any of us really... the world of hypocrisy casts a wide net...

William Chadwick said...

If Trump were the nicest guy in the world, show-biz Eloi like Cher would still hate him for opposing the Hive.

Earnest Prole said...

to paraphrase Ricky Gervais, I might care about what Cher had to say about politics except it's no longer 1975

buwaya said...

"But what is "Spanish"? Ancient Iberians, whatever they might have been, Basques, Greeks, Carthaginians (Phoenicians), Romans, Goths, Vandals, Berbers, Arabs, and yes, even "Blacks."

My genetic analysis says I (entirely Spanish of various sorts by ancestry, except for the East Asian part) am, in terms of ancient DNA, largely "European Neolithic Farmer", which is typical of most Western European ancestry. We Europeans are all rather closely related. The divergent bit is there is significant (@10%?) Eastern Med/Near Eastern ancestry. This seems typical of Spain. African Berber is also present but only a trace, and Sub-Saharan African nearly none.

n.n said...

So much for MLK's "dream": "a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character"

The Pro-Choice religion based on selective and arbitrary principles is a first-order cause of catastrophic anthropogenic progressive prejudice. Whether it is selective-child (e.g. abortion rites, Planned Parenthood, fantasy of spontaneous conception) that debase human life, selective exclusion (e.g. "=") that favors politically profitable orientations, or [class] diversity schemes (i.e. "skin color"-based judgment) used to deny individual dignity, the State-established Pro-Choice Church is infamous for violating civil and human rights, and corrupting scientific integrity through liberal conflation with mysticism (i.e. forward and reverse inference in both time and space based on liberal assumptions of uniformity, linearity, and independence, a.k.a. prophecy).

JaimeRoberto said...

No "civility bullshit" tag?

Paddy O said...

"no more hypocritical than mr trump lecturing the black community from afar?"

Of course more. Trump is stating a political position as a candidate seeking votes. Framing that as "lecturing" is, of course, silly.

Cher is arguing against Trump on the basis of some superior moral position. Cher is very supportive of gay rights, so I didn't highlight her hypocrisy there. Though, Hillary Clinton certainly is quite a bit more suspect on that issue than Trump, both in terms of their policies in the 90s and in how much money she accepts from very anti-gay societies like Saudi Arabia.

The world of hypocrisy casts a wide net, to be sure, so we should be careful about pontificating on issues we are particularly hypocritical about. She's more than free to live wherever and however she wants. But if her life is spent in all-white enclaves, she's not in a position to judge someone else on that issue.

It's like if she were insulting anyone who mentioned liking 70s and 80s pop music. She's free to do it, but people are free to mock her for it.

Fernandinande said...

Hagar said...
"Mexican" can go from 100%, or nearly so, Indian to 100%, or nearly so, Spanish.


My two Mexican friends are genetically German and Jewish. No Indian, no Spanish.

Then there's Mexican citizen Zhenli Ye Gon, and his 4,500 pounds of $100 bills (supposedly):
Chinese-Mexican businessman found with $205M cash says he sold black market meth chemicals

Hagar said...

That would be the mitochondria; how about your y-chromosome?

Hagar said...

German is a (more or less current) language group and Jewish is a religious affiliation.

buwaya said...

Mexican is of course a civil nationality as well as a national culture and a set of local cultures. This makes for difficult conversations. There is "Mexican" as in what your passport is, like Linda Ronstadts German grandfather, and there is "Mexican", like Pancho Villa and the others that the Mechistas claim as the "bronze race", and there is "Mexican" the unmixed native tribes - there are native "Mexicans" that aren't of the Spanish-speaking mestizo race, like the Yaquis I met once in LA who didn't speak Spanish and didn't want to.

"American" is not quite as ethnically-specific, though you people do actually have that too.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

no more hypocritical than mr trump lecturing the black community from afar?

A hypocrite is someone who does one thing, but practices another. You know, like a preacher denouncing extra-marital sex, but secretly visiting prostitutes. Or someone denouncing someone as a racist, even though the venue they choose to do it in is mostly white and the places they choose to live are mostly white.

Giving a speech in which you suggest that some people are being screwed over by some other group of people is not hypocrisy. Even if none of either of those groups are in the room. Otherwise, professors discussing the Peloponnesian War, or Rome's wars with Carthage, or Venice's sacking of Constantinople would also be guilty of hypocrisy.

buwaya said...

"That would be the mitochondria; how about your y-chromosome?"

No, thats the chromosomal DNA. My wife just got her mitochondrial analysis, I haven't sent for that yet.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

A hypocrite is someone who does one thing, but practices another

Make that preaches one thing, does another.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

"That guy is such a hypocrite! He told me that the letter I got from the Nigerian Prince is a scam, and he isn't even in Nigeria!"

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

The more apparent it becomes to the left what a debased reprobate Hillary is, the more hysterical they will react to Trump. It's the only way they can make Hillary palatable to voters.

Fernandinande said...

Hagar said...
German is a (more or less current) language group and Jewish is a religious affiliation.


No.

A genome-wide genetic signature of Jewish ancestry perfectly separates individuals with and without full Jewish ancestry in a large random sample of European Americans

Germans not quite so clear-cut, but getting closer: "European Americans are often treated as a homogeneous group, but in fact form a structured population due to historical immigration of diverse source populations."

Hagar said...

"Mexican" is also short for "Mexican-American," which include people whose ancestors were residents in what is now the United States before Jamestown were heard of.
(Though it is non-PC now to speak of such hyphenated population groups, except, of course, "African-Americans.")

Hagar said...

So what are the East-European Jews? Chopped liver?

Have you bothered to see how the extent of "Germany" (the German state we know today does not go farther back than Bismarck) has changed just in historic times?

Rumpletweezer said...

What we really need is a Moon Shot Program aimed at curing stupidity. Put Biden in charge. He can be the proof that we've succeeded.

damikesc said...

I don't begrudge her awards or her megaphone. I'm highlighting the fact that she lives in an almost all-white settings and speaking in a town that has an almost all white population.

A person who throws stones shouldn't live in an glass house with all-white trim.


It's a recurring theme amongst high-income Progressives. They decry the lack of integration in society while moving to the whitest places known to man. And if where they move aren't overwhelmingly white, they see to it that they become so by passing zoning regulations to price poor and minority folks out of their precious city.

You need to go to a red state to actually see integration. Also, funny enough, states like mine have few problems dealing with racial issues. The cop who shot the unarmed black guy in Charleston was punished...quickly. The cop who shot the unarmed black guy at a gas station in Columbia was ALSO punished...quickly.

Chicago, they don't seem able to do that.

I'd also argue that if a Republican lived in a place like Paddy O has mentioned Progressives tend to live, they'd be disqualified for national office by the press.

steve uhr said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fernandinande said...

Germans: Using ancestry-informative markers to identify fine structure across 15 populations of European origin

traditionalguy said...

Cher has never been around men who did not use her. The Donald is a complete unknown to her.

But she is sure he is her enemy. He is a strong man that she cannot manipulate. So he in one sense is her enemy.

buwaya said...

"Germans: Using ancestry-informative markers to identify fine structure across 15 populations of European origin"

I believe Razib Khan (gnxp) blogged this at the time. His ongoing joke is supported thereby, that "Finns are weird".

buwaya said...

And of course (regarding the European fine structure), the US has a distinct national character genetically - you get your own circle off in the corner of the distribution there.
There is an American "look".

Ron Winkleheimer said...

It's a recurring theme amongst high-income Progressives. They decry the lack of integration in society while moving to the whitest places known to man. And if where they move aren't overwhelmingly white, they see to it that they become so by passing zoning regulations to price poor and minority folks out of their precious city.

It gets kind of annoying to be lectured about your racism by people who want to import poor brown people so they can exploit them economically. Or export jobs so that they can exploit poor brown and Asian people economically, and avoid environmental regulations so that they can save a few pennies per unit. Wasn't Beyonce in the news a couple of weeks ago for using sweatshop labor to produce her grrrl power t-shirts of something?

Lem said...

He means: We're going to make America straight and and and white.

Is Cher inadvertently telling us Barack Obama made America black?

Lem said...

Interesting contrast between how the writer Hunter S. Thomson spoke about one of the three meanest men he ever met (candidate Jimmy Carter) and how Cher spoke about candidate Trump.

"He will eat your shoulder right off...." said Thomson of candidate Jimmy Carter.

"He wants to make America straight and and and white" says Cher of candidate Trump.

Now, let's see what happens if I switch those quotes...

"He wants to make America straight and and and white" said Thomson of candidate Jimmy Carter.

"He will eat your shoulder right off...." says Cher of candidate Trump.

Sounds legit ;)

Big Mike said...

It gets kind of annoying to be lectured about your racism by people who want to import poor brown people so they can exploit them economically.

@Ron, amen Brother. I think Progs need to be forced to mow their own lawns and change their own kids' diapers.

narciso said...

the last three mexican presidents, were of pallor, probably scot irish to some degree,

https://www.yahoo.com/news/did-mexicos-president-plagiarize-law-212000967.html

Chuck said...

Bad Lieutenant said...
Hi Chuck! So, will you be betraying Trump at the polls this year?

8/24/16, 11:28 AM


What does that even mean?

FullMoon said...

Ron Winkleheimer said... [hush]​[hide comment]

It's a recurring theme amongst high-income Progressives. They decry the lack of integration in society while moving to the whitest places known to man. And if where they move aren't overwhelmingly white, they see to it that they become so by passing zoning regulations to price poor and minority folks out of their precious city.

It gets kind of annoying to be lectured about your racism by people who want to import poor brown people so they can exploit them economically.

Yeah, and, is it racist for liberals to assume blacks are better athletes? Chinese do better in school? Indians are better at programming and spelling?

EMD said...

Cher is old. Ergo, Hillary is old.

n.n said...

Race is just one set in [class] diversity schemes. Sex is another. Class diversity mongers deny individual dignity (i.e. "the content of their character" or principles) in favor of "judged by the color of their skin" morality. The progress of class diversity schemes can be traced to the establishment of the Pro-Choice (i.e. selective or arbitrary principles) Church and similar quasi-religions.

Char Char Binks said...

Wow, I really spawned a lot of sciencey comments about something I really don't care much about.

tcrosse said...

Hey Cher. Love trumps hate, right ?

Ctmom4 said...

Was she able to get her face to move enough to shriek that? She has has so much work done she looks like a Madame Tussauds discard.

She is a lunatic on Twitter, always hyperventilating in what is barely English in all caps and many many forms of punctuation. She is entitled to her opinion,but I would listen to the homeless guy on the corner with a cardboard sign before her.

Bay Area Guy said...

It's funny to hear Hollywood success story Cher get all indignant.

Have you ever tried to earn a living in Hollywood? It's horrendous. Talk about income inequality. Yes, we know all the millionaire stars (like Cher), but for every Cher, there's a 100 marginalized, struggling actors, hovering at the poverty level, willing to kill for an obscure role at the local playhouse -- and then, if they get the role, they gotta acquiesce to the casting couch, either straight or gay.

Hollywood sucks. And so does Cher (except for Moonstruck, a billion years ago, that was good!)

Vote Trump

Paul Snively said...

Char Char Binks: Wow, I really spawned a lot of sciencey comments about something I really don't care much about.

Just think of me as your Straight-man-as-a-Service (SaaS).

rhhardin said...

Being a celebrity gives women an unfortunate tendency to say what they're thinking. Owing to a tendency never to abstract, it's usually crazy.

Bob Loblaw said...

It's funny how Trumps enemies never criticize him for what he says. They criticize him for what he would say if he was actually the Trump caricature that exists only in their minds. It's also funny that were the caricature to be true Trump would be almost as crooked as his opponent. Almost.

Personally, I don't think much of the guy. But I'm basing that on what he says and does, not on the fever dreams that seem to be so common among celebrities and pseudo-celebs in the media.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

It's cool that folks who are fussing about mean media picking on Trump are doing the same thing they always do to support Rs who are said to be treated unfairly by the media.

Funny thing is that this time a lot of the media attacking Trump are the exact con media who are usually complaining about the media attacking Rs.

You'd think that more Trump apologists could recognize that it is actually different when you have a lot of conservative media attacking the R. I know, those rightie media folks are the GOPE sellouts (from NR to Beck)--bring on the authentic cons, i.e., Breitbart/alt right!



Gahrie said...

Sonny was definitely the brains of the pair.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Here's a thought experiment: if cons say that Ds are trying to get more voters by restoring voting rights and making citizens out of illegals, wouldn't Rs try to make the population less educated so they can increase the proportion of their most dedicated voter demo?

Just sayin.

MayBee said...

I have noticed many of the defenses of th Clinton Global Initiative sound a lot like "the taliban provides schools".

MayBee said...

I also think the clintons had an L Ron Hubbard moment. They didn't need a religion other than the Democratic Party and power

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"I have noticed many of the defenses of the Clinton Global Initiative sound a lot like "the taliban provides schools"."

I also noticed that the Foundation and Initiative are like the Taliban. Everybody knows that.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

MayBee,

Like you, I heard that the Taliban also received the "A" rating from the independent "charity watch":

https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings-and-metrics/bill-hillary-chelsea-clinton-foundation/478

buwaya puti said...

Oh come, PB&J, you can do better. Lets get some substance going, some heavy lifting, I know you have it in you, I believe in you. There is a successful human being in there, and we can extract him from the dross.
What you need is some honest intellectual exercise, pushups, pullups and a morning jog to start
So, what about Russell Kirk?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"Lets get some substance going, some heavy lifting,"

If it's not substantial to point out that the Foundation is independently certified as an "A" charity that has saved a lot of lives and living conditions around the world, please spell out what is of importance, as you see it?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Can you, unlike Maybee, at least admit that it's better than the Taliban?

narciso said...

it's more spectre or quantum, at least one gulf state spymaster, one lebanese nigerian chagoury, one ukrainian oligarch,

buwaya puti said...

? Foundation ?
Good Lord, I thought you were dying of the Clintons.
No, I thought you were interested in the philosophy of Conservatism, being so concerned with the National Review and such. Perhaps Ortega y Gasset? He is not often recognized for his truly insider insights on the Press and mass media. He was quite a renowned journalist in his day, I have a volume of his reporting on the Spanish war in Morrocco, no English edition unfortunately.

buwaya puti said...

I may, if pressed, post something on Philippine country dancing on A's general thread. Its a curious and possibly fascinating subject. There is an awful lot to connect it with, for instance, all those ballroom scenes in Jane Austen movies.

buwaya puti said...

Or perhaps Unamuno, though the "tragic sense of life" is more survivable if you are Catholic. You aren't Catholic, are you?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

BTW,

I've seen comments in this thread, and others, and other places where folks say they won't vote for DJT, but they want to defend him against the lib media.

Is that, strategically, the best option for a true conservative? Isn't it better for him to be totally wiped out?

Sure, w/ HRC abortion will be locked in, as it already is. And, it is true that a con court could allow states to nibble pretty substantially, if you think that's a good thing. The other cultural stuff is already lost, no matter what. And, nobody is taking our guns, no matter what. Maybe, around the edges there'll be less dough anonymously buying pols, but for the most part that proverbial horse is never getting close to the barn again.

That seems like a small price to pay to discredit the Donald direction.

Laslo Spatula said...

From a Politifact view:

"There’s a grain of truth here -- roughly 85 percent of the foundation’s spending was for items other than charitable grants to other organizations, and a large chunk of this 85 percent did go to Clinton Foundation staff for travel, salaries and benefits. However, the foundation says it does most of its charitable work in-house, and it’s not credible to think that the foundation spent zero dollars beyond grants on any charitable work, which is what it would take for Limbaugh to be correct."

"it’s not credible to think that the foundation spent zero dollars beyond grants on any charitable work,"

Zero dollars is the new Threshold of giving.

A dollar above Zero is practically Jesus.

Unless the IRS investigated Jesus.

I am Laslo.

buwaya puti said...

I will bite - you are screwed, condemned, irrevocably headed to the proverbial, historical dustbin, and what you are seeing is just a set of transient symptoms while you swirl down the drain. Its Argentina for you, because your population is lost, hopeless in its decadence.
At best we can save one at a time, maybe. You perhaps.
As for the old right, they amount, in outlook and significance, to a bunch af autistic model-railroad hobbyists.
In the meantime, the more you upset the plans of your would be betters, the more fun you will have. It wont last long, but it could be glorious.

buwaya puti said...

It could be like the last chapter of Raspail's "Camp of the Saints".
Thats why you should vote for Trump. Stick it up them, once at least, because you are doomed anyway.

Laslo Spatula said...

buwaya puti said...
"...they amount, in outlook and significance, to a bunch af autistic model-railroad hobbyists."

I have Nothing More To Write.

That is a Walk-Off Home Run in the Armageddon World Series.

I am Laslo.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Laslo,

You're referencing Politifact which was referring to Rush telling fibs. How is that relevant to my link to a website that is aimed at looking through charity's data so it can evaluate and rank them?

Regardless, can you, unlike Maybee, at least agree that the Foundation is better than the Taliban?

Laslo Spatula said...

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...
Laslo...
Regardless, can you, unlike Maybee, at least agree that the Foundation is better than the Taliban?

I cannot speak for Maybee, but I will not agree with your statement.

The Taliban has limited power.

The USA has great power.

The Foundation took money that traded American power for personal gain.

Chickens and Benz.

The Taliban did not sell MY country out.


I am Laslo.



mockturtle said...

That is a Walk-Off Home Run in the Armageddon World Series.

I am Laslo.


Love you, Laslo! :-)

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

BTW,

Like Laslo, I appreciated that railroad sentence. But, when I read it, I also wondered how many Althouse commenters fit that mold, in essence, if not precisely.

Some of y'all seem to have a light trigger finger on your knee jerks. Just sayin.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"The Taliban did not sell MY country out."

HRC didn't sell out you or our country either. And, the Taliban's honored residents did attack us, a bunch.

buwaya puti said...

Its time for the placid, hard working, much beaten old horse to kick, break his traces, upset the cart and put the fear of God into his driver.

Laslo Spatula said...

"HRC didn't sell out you or our country either. And, the Taliban's honored residents did attack us, a bunch."

Leave that for readers to parse at their leisure.

I am Laslo.

Alex said...

It's pretty much Sine qua non that a liberal will call Donald Trump a Hitler.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"Its time for the placid, hard working, much beaten old horse to kick, break his traces, upset the cart and put the fear of God into his driver."

I don't know who is who in this. Is this horse The Tea Party people? Is the horse a catchall for anybody who isn't satisfied w/ their life, and has decided that their lack of success is the fault of others? If so, in addition to the uneducated folks, the whiney Berners who want everything for free can be enlisted, too.

I don't doubt that this sort of blame transferring could be popular if you gather all the folks who are psychologically open to forsaking personal responsibility.

Not sure that's a good thing, though. One thing is for sure, that's not conservatism.

mockturtle said...

PB&J, you and Chuck seem to have a lot in common. Are you the same person?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"Are you the same person?"

Yes.

buwaya puti said...

The class of responsible, civic, well behaved and moderately successful person is, as best I can tell, having spent decades in their company, is now fed up and in a state of incandescent rage. They have been holding it in, to the point of choking, and are about ready to erupt.
Each little poke and prod adds to the held-in pressure, and the greater shock of the explosion, come the day.

buwaya puti said...

Note, as a descendant of a long line of expats and colonialists and holders of many passports, I can see signs when I see signs.
Our kids have their dual citizenships and options.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Buwaya,

Is there polling that backs up the feelings you've mentioned related to the demo you've mentioned?

And what does "moderately successful" mean? How poor are these moderate people who resent others w/ more dough?

According to my anecdotal experience, it seems like we've got some newer generations who feel very entitled w/o having a matching capability and value add? Maybe you're thinking about moderate boomers who whine about how they're owed this or that. I'm not sympathetic to either.

Is it terrible to ask folks to pull up their boot straps?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"Our kids have their dual citizenships and options."

You're encouraging folks to vote for blowing up the system, so that makes sense.

BTW, hopefully you have better options than Spain and/or The Philippines. Presumably you're clear headed enough to see that those two are more than a notch or two or ten below the States.

buwaya puti said...

PB&J, keep your eyes and ears open, aquire a good pair of binoculars and establish a sound observation-post. You will see what is generally evident. I suggest a shooting-range, which all seem very crowded these days, though the atmosphere therein may be a bit intense for the anxious.
I wonder, have you parents?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

I don't know if it's true, but some folks have claimed that not-rich folks have voted for Rs who proposed pro-rich policies because the not-rich folks thought they may some day be rich.

This may be total BS. But, if it's true for some folks, what happens when these folks realize that they're never going to be rich? In fact, far from rich, they may be way down at "moderate."

Anywho, some cons sometimes note that being in poverty is awesome in America because statistically many of these folks have AC and TVs and microwaves. So, surely these cray baby moderates can STFU and microwave some TV diners. Right?

buwaya puti said...

Those other places havent got 300 million guns and their people arent a fraction as angry.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Buwaya,

I wanted to go to a range (sportsman club) close to a place I live. But, they required joining the NRA.

And a while back, I was supposed to go on a big hunting trip w/ some friends (who are hardcore, traveling the world), but in my state I needed to do some sort of training thing, and it was too much bother.

Anywho, I don't live my life being afraid someone is going to take my out if I don't kill them first. So far, so good.


buwaya puti said...

PB&J, as I said, listen. When you are silent, maybe, you can hear the drums beating. They may be several hills away from you in Seattle.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"They may be several hills away from you in Seattle."

I live in four places, only one in the city. The other three get progressively deeper into non-progressiveness. The final stop is a bit West of Forks. Seattle could just as well be on the other side of the planet.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Libs in the city believe and feel things that aren't correct. Cons in the woods do the same.

No drums, though.

EMD said...

"I've seen comments in this thread, and others, and other places where folks say they won't vote for DJT, but they want to defend him against the lib media."

A lot of us, in some way wouldn't mind seeing the whole danged thing come apart and something new rise from the ashes of the Capitol District.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"A lot of us, in some way wouldn't mind seeing the whole danged thing come apart and something new rise from the ashes of the Capitol District."

I don't see it. I look at the history and great sacrifices our country has gone through, and I see much, much harder challenges than we have now. Maybe back then we also had folks who wanted to throw up their hands, unable to function and move forward, at least they confronted actually dire situations. And, these giver-upers were overwhelmed by the Americans who rose up and got the job done. Back then the weak spun their fear internally, now y'all can have poor-us reinforcing sessions on the tubes and you can find empathy w/ Drudge et. al. telling you that you've got it tough and your "moderate" situation is not your fault.

buwaya puti said...

They will rise up I think, and get a job done, but I think not quite the sort of job you have in mind. The laws of history are inconvenient.
The two prophets are Schumpeter and Spengler.
The model is Argentina, though I dont think this place will slump down to that inutility without trauma.
I have seen a lot. Your leadership class is execrable, I have spent decades dealing with these, and there is no way to get a new one. I have seen your schools, oh have I ever. The next generation will be something to behold.
Do you understand that it is not a matter of people of goodwill buckling down? The problem you have is that you simply havent got people of goodwill. You aren't one of them, for instance. There are hordes of you, useless creatures, too incompetent even to reproduce.

MayBee said...

" Can you, unlike Maybee, at least admit that it's better than the Taliban?"

What now?

Of course it's better than the Taliban.
But you know the argument I'm talking about, right? The one where you can hide a lot of corruption inside an organization because it does good things.

tim in vermont said...

I don't see it. I look at the history and great sacrifices our country has gone through, and I see much, much harder challenges than we have now. Maybe back then we also had folks who wanted to throw up their hands, unable to function and move forward, at least they confronted actually dire situations. And, these giver-upers were overwhelmed by the Americans who rose up and got the job done. Back then the weak spun their fear internally,

Wow! The Democrats don't even pretend anymore to be the party of the downtrodden. Now the Democrats are the downtrodders, and those people being crushed under Democrats power politics? The only problem is that they have a voice. Fucking Matt Drudge and his web site! Can't we just buy him off?!?

tim in vermont said...

I don't know if it's true, but some folks have claimed that not-rich folks have voted for Rs who proposed pro-rich policies because the not-rich folks thought they may some day be rich. - PB&J

So was Chavez pro poor folks, anti rich? How did that work out for Venezuela? Maybe it's more complicated than you can understand.... Naaah! You have it all worked out! No need to examine your own thinking!

Rusty said...

PB&J has come to tell people ,"Look over here!"

The Clinton Family Full Employment Scheme aka The Clinton Foundation, in order to comply with being a charity must give a certain percentage of its proceeds to actual or percieved needy people or causes. That does not obviate the fact that it was designed to make the Clintons rich.

tim in vermont said...

Melania Trump’s all-white dress was “A scary statement.” So while Trump appeared flawless on the Cleveland stage Monday night, whether she intended it or not, her all-white ensemble displayed the kind of foreignness that is accepted by her husband’s political party. To many, that outfit could be another reminder that in the G.O.P. white is always right. On the other hand, “Hillary Clinton looked presidential in an all-white pantsuit.”

Just like in Iowa with Bernie, with Hillary it's always Heads I win, tails you lose.

MayBee said...

James Carville is all over saying people are going to die if you shut down the Clinton Foundation. Calling for it to be shut down is akin to murder.
You can get away with a lot of corruption if you are so important people will die without you.


(how can they possibly stop taking foreign donations if Hillary wins? People will D.I.E. die!)

virgil xenophon said...

Slightly OT (but only slightly) but I went to school with Carville when I was at LSU. My freshman year my doubles partner on the tennis team and I roomed together. He had pledged Phi Gamma Delta (*FIJI*) and I, Phi Delta Theta. Carville was his big brother in the fraternity and was in our dorm room often visiting his "charge." I got to know him quite well. He was just as big of a raving, cavorting, mincing A-hole back then as he is now...something about Leopards not changing their spots, I guess...only thing good I can say about him is that at least he is a big LSU supporter...as Churchill once said: "If Hitler invaded Hell I'd at least say a few kind words of support for the Devil.." So will find solace in that aspect of Carville's personality, lol (Plus Mary Matlin, a fellow Prairie Stater like myself and a Western Illinois Leatherneck grad is "somewhat" of an ameliorating influence as his wife :) )

PS: Carville flunked out during my sojourn as an undergrad and joined the Marines. In those days you had to GO some to manage to flunk out of LSU :) but at least he became a Marine, served his country and later returned to LSU..

Dan Hossley said...

Sonny wasn't the better singer, but he was always the better thinker.

Fernandinande said...

[Class] is a set of diverse package of games. Sex is another. To deny the diversity of dealers (in other words, say with their character content) "personal dignity" to determine their skin color moral support. Program ongoing diversity dates back to establish churches and similar religious abortion (in other words, selective or arbitrary rule).

Bruce Hayden said...

Don't know what it is, but FiJis seem inevitably to be the ahole house on campus. At least was where I went to school, and at several other schools. But, if I remember right, Byron "Whizzer" White was a Fiji at Colorado (according to friends' father who claimed him as a house brother). So, if I had had to pick a house for Carville, my first guess would have been Fiji.

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