August 8, 2016

And Tim Kaine should get Hillary to withdraw.

That's my response to "Mike Pence Should Get Donald Trump to Withdraw" (a NYT op-ed).

What if the presidential candidates suddenly were — by some mutual political deescalation — Mike Pence and Tim Kaine.
 
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81 comments:

Unknown said...

Tim Kaine may not have to do anything but wait. Has anyone seen Hillary try to go up a set of stairs lately? That woman is not well.

Not sure who will croak first: Bill or Hill. But the chances of both surviving to inauguration day seem slim.

--Vance

Ann Althouse said...

"Has anyone seen Hillary try to go up a set of stairs lately? That woman is not well."

She slipped on a step and people helped her. Stop contributing to the escalation of bullshit, could you?

tim maguire said...

Hillary seems to be not in the best of health, but that doesn't mean she's on death's door. I would give a fair hearing to both Pence and Kaine and regardless of which ultimately won, I would be much happier with the result of that election than of the one we are going to actually get.

Gusty Winds said...

None of the above. Especially for the 13 Mil primary votes Trump received. That still matters. To wipe it out makes the whole process a joke.

See it through. Grow a pair America.

Can we vote to replace the propaganda pushing media? They're more dangerous than anything this election.

The Bergall said...

There's a first. The NYT's concerned about the Republican party..........

Unknown said...

Ann, Hillary's health is an issue. And why not? Obama certainly tried to claim McCain was unhealthy and too sick to be president. Democrats are trying to hide some serious health issues there.

One is her apparent seizures. There is a fellow who is always following her, armed with it appears a syringe. And he's not Secret Service.

There's lots of video of her freezing or having seizures while talking with people, reporters, etc. That is not escalating anything.

I think at this point anyone who claims that Hillary is perfectly fit and well has the burden to demonstrate it.

Besides, the Media and Democrats hammered on poor Ford, I think it was, for his one time problem with stairs. Why is Hillary immune to the same mockery and questioning when she apparently did it far worse?

--Vance

Achilles said...


There needs to be another option: I would Declare war on the Uniparty and Washington DC.

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...

"She slipped on a step and people helped her. Stop contributing to the escalation of bullshit, could you?"

You can't be serious. Hillary has admitted to having a stroke. She is a known alcoholic. She twitches in public. She has lost balance on more than several occasions. It is not just because she is fat.

This beside the fact she has not one single positive accomplishment while serving in government for 30 years. With no record of competence or even a facile argument to be made there is only one reason to put someone so mediocre and damaged into the most important position in the world. She is clearly going to be a puppet.

Humperdink said...

Getting back on track here. I would vote for Pence in a heartbeat. Several heartbeats, a sigh, then a deep breath and Trump will get my vote.

Being pro-life is the largest attribute for a candidate with me.

Paddy O said...

If this would happen, that both candidates backed out, I would be beyond thrilled.

Both Trump and Hillary are horrible candidates. I can understand the impulse to vote for Trump, but he's so not the kind of person who can fulfill those hopes. Hillary is the representation of the worst and most dangerous aspects of contemporary politics.

But, this election isn't about what is best. It's about victory over the perceived foe. The two main candidates are figureheads of that anger.

Paddy O said...

"Can we vote to replace the propaganda pushing media?"

This above all. And this is another reason I am inclined (though I hate this) to vote forTrump. Clinton winning cements the worst aspects of the fawning media. Corruption will deepen and spread like cancer.

readering said...

I think Trump is too old (as were Biden, Kerry and Sanders) and Clinton is borderline. Would be happy to see double swap for Kaine and Pence.

Achilles said...

Paddy O said...

"Can we vote to replace the propaganda pushing media?"

"This above all. And this is another reason I am inclined (though I hate this) to vote forTrump. Clinton winning cements the worst aspects of the fawning media. Corruption will deepen and spread like cancer."

That is why Pence would be unacceptable. At best we get 8 years of Bush and a continued slightly slower slide into oblivion until we elect the next democrat who restarts the lefts war on this country.

We are in a fight for the survival of economic freedom. It is already against the law in most cases to practice actual freedom now. Pence would do little to change that.

steve uhr said...

How about ivanka vs Chelsea, assuming they are of age.

AllenS said...

She slipped on a step

How do you slip on a step? Like on a banana peel? Were the steps wet? They don't appear to be. One might slip on a step while going down them, but climbing steps?

mockturtle said...

I have seen her sitting down unexpectedly while greeting crowds and sometimes seem to have trouble moving. Really, I don't think she is well.

Josephbleau said...

I can't vote for Hillary under any condition. Further, to damage her chances I must vote for Trump. As Hillary slouches to the District of Columbia to be born.

Curious George said...

"AllenS said...
She slipped on a step

How do you slip on a step? Like on a banana peel? Were the steps wet? They don't appear to be. One might slip on a step while going down them, but climbing steps?"

I think "trip" is the correct description. And I've tripped on steps before. Mostly when I was really drunk.

Henry said...

The Dems are already demonizing Pence. He's worse than Mitt Romney and John McCain put together. The logical next step for the Times, if Trump backs out, is to declare that Pence is too radical and must step aside.

John said...

Ann, you say she slipped on the steps.

And you know this how? Is there video anywhere? Can you share a link?

From the 2 pictures I do not see tripping, I see needing to be almost carried up the steps.

John Henry

AprilApple said...

Pence v Kaine.

Now you're talking.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Spiros Pappas said...

Trump's nomination is something like a rejection of the elite media. And these men and women at the New York Times, total narcissists and totally insecure, are taking it personally.

Unknown said...

"Hillary has admitted to having a stroke. She is a known alcoholic. She twitches in public. She has lost balance on more than several occasions. It is not just because she is fat."

Quintessential Trump voter.

Unknown said...

There is absolutely nothing besides idiotic conspiracy theories on right wing junk sites to indicate Clinton is in ill health. It reeks of desperation as Trump sinks yet further in the polls daily.

Danno said...

Ann said "She slipped on a step and people helped her. Stop contributing to the escalation of bullshit, could you?"

If we had honest and fair media, they would be mocking her like they did Gerald Ford, showing her with a protective helmet on, and caricatured in cartoons, etc.

buwaya puti said...

Kaine is a creature of the machine.
Pence may be also; in any case he seems like an easy mark to co-opt.

mockturtle said...

If we had honest and fair media, they would be mocking her like they did Gerald Ford, showing her with a protective helmet on, and caricatured in cartoons, etc.

Yep, or poor George Bush the elder, barfing at the table in Japan.

cubanbob said...

Unknown said...
"Hillary has admitted to having a stroke. She is a known alcoholic. She twitches in public. She has lost balance on more than several occasions. It is not just because she is fat."

Quintessential Trump voter.

8/8/16, 9:17 PM
Unknown said...
There is absolutely nothing besides idiotic conspiracy theories on right wing junk sites to indicate Clinton is in ill health. It reeks of desperation as Trump sinks yet further in the polls daily.

8/8/16, 9:19 PM"

Consummate self-deluded Hill Shill. Now do tell us how it came to be that you support a wannabe champagne fascist and grifter, criminal traitor who is too arrogant and stupid to understand emails and servers and national security.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Cubanbob,

Tell Hispanics how Trump will be good for them and their relatives. Of course Cubans aren't in that mix are they? They got asylum when they entered American waters illegally, didn't they? I hear younger Cubans vote Democrat nowadays. They don't think like their parents who say "I got my asylum, so to hell with the rest of the Hispanics of non Cuban heritage."

William said...

Wendell Wilkie in his 1940 run for President looked vital and energetic compared to FDR. He had a heart attack and died some five months before FDR.

Eleanor said...

Where's the "None of the Above" choice?

Unknown said...

Hillary Clinton has an 85% chance of winning the presidency.

Read it and weep Trumpists.

Terry said...

Dear God, "Unknown", that means four years of rule by a brain-damaged harpy!
I bet Bill is already interviewing interns.

mockturtle said...

Unknowing, you never give up on your trolling. But, then, I suppose you are being paid well.

gadfly said...


Ann Althouse said...

"She slipped on a step and people helped her. Stop contributing to the escalation of bullshit, could you?"

Here is today's seizure in Florida. These events are getting closer together.

https://youtu.be/NlxWckQbpug

buwaya puti said...

Clinton is "well handled".
I doubt she will be making any important decisions.
No more than Obama does. He at least is a talented front man.

Anyway, as we see, it is a machine, with elements of it operating even here. The inner workings would be interesting to tease apart. Of course it wouldnt be easy to get access. The DNC emails seem like merely the leavings and byproducts of a minor subcomponent.

Terry said...

I just went to Hillary's twitter account.
She says that Trump can't be trusted because of his big money donors. Also, he shouldn't be given the nuclear football launch code.
Then she tweeted the nuclear football launch code (it's 0123456x,I put the 'x' in place of one of the numbers to confound the Russki's).
She deleted the tweet with the code right away, so that was good.
I think Hillary got her twitter and email accounts mixed up, she was trying to send the code to hot-latino437@yahoo.com. Say, wasn't that one of Anthony Weiner's email accounts?
Must be 'Margarita Monday' at the Occidental Grill.

Terry said...

Yep, "Unknown" is right, Hillary has got it in the bag. That means all of you Democrats can stop donating to her campaign. No need to trouble yourself by voting. Don't even do early voting, it's a waste of time.
You know how politicians always say 'I need your vote'? Well, Hillary doesn't need your vote. The NY Times says so. Don't vote, stay home. Wouldn't your time be better spent watching My Dinner with Andre one more time, or maybe attending a Klan meeting?

Unknown said...

Terry's brain short circuited, he means to say, since Trump is losing so bad already, all you Trumpists shouldn't bother going out to vote for him in November.

Unknown said...

Oh and Terry, I hear the Klan meeting will be held in the Trump towers because the Klan are Trump voters, but you knew that, right?

victoria said...

They'd vote for Pence???? Make me gag.That man wants to reduce the reproductive rights of women to pre-1972. He doesn't like the LGBT community and, from what I can see, is a religious fanatic, along the lines of the "Moral Majority". urp If Pence ran, i'd have to contribute both time and money to ANY democrat who was running


Vicki from Pasadena

I know, stop with the "she's a liberal" diatribes. I am and proud of it. and I've heard it all before. Don't care

Unknown said...

Vicki,
That they'd vote for Pence says a lot about the commenter majority here in these comments sections. Odd that Althouse who is a social liberal (so I've been told) draws in so many social conservatives. Yuck.

Gahrie said...

That man wants to reduce the reproductive rights of women to pre-1972.

You say that like it is a bad thing. Roe V Wade is easily one of the top five worse Supreme Court decisions ever, apart from the actual issue of killing babies.

I think women should have exactly the same reproductive choices as men...the choice occurs beforesex, not after.

mockturtle said...

the choice occurs before sex, not after.

Bingo!

buwaya puti said...

"That man wants to reduce the reproductive rights of women to pre-1972."

Then maybe you would actually reproduce.
You old-fashioned white Americans are an endangered species you know.
The Jewish ones even more so.
Few seem to care much.
I wonder why.
Some sort of cultural death-wish it seems.

Achilles said...

Nope, Hillary is totally healthy. It must be the Cold Chai.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ-4eAUyIaE

Her supporters are as dishonest as she is. If a republican did this it would be replayed over and over.

Achilles said...

Totally Healthy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFTwc6tcZdA

Several SS agents and many staffers have described in detail Hillary's epic temper, violent outbursts, and complete lack of empathy for people who work under her. Abusing subordinates is a strong indicator of political success in the democrat party though.

n.n said...

Abortion rites in a final solution, because women (and their pajama boys) cannot accept responsibility for their bodies, Democrats want the taxable revenue and democratic leverage, and Planned Parenthood needs raw materials for their Mengele division.

How transgressive. Hate loves abortion.

And people thought Democrat denial of individual dignity through class diversity policies, social justice adventurism in progressive wars, and advancing the causes of mass exodus from second and third-world nations was wicked.

Amexpat said...

Can we vote to replace the propaganda pushing media? They're more dangerous than anything this election

Actually we do this all the time by deciding what we watch and what we read. That's registered and big media reacts accordingly. The public shapes the media more than the media shapes the public.

Terry said...

"Unknown said...
Oh and Terry, I hear the Klan meeting will be held in the Trump towers because the Klan are Trump voters, but you knew that, right?

8/8/16, 11:13 PM"
Trump is a Democrat? Oh noes! Does Reince Priebus know this?

Terry said...

And, inspired by "Unknown"'s bleatings, I've just donated $100 to Trump's campaign.
I live in a state that went 2:1, Obama over Romney, in 2012. My vote is a waste of time. But even though I will not vote for Trump (he is not a conservative, and I am not a registered Republican), I can still give him money to defeat the screeching harpy of Chappaqua!
God bless America!

Terry said...

Terry ,

Thank you for your generous donation of $100. Your support matters now more than ever because the stakes are so high.

We must stop Crooked Hillary from ruining our country. We must thwart the slew of bias and lies the mainstream media is feeding America. We MUST win BIG in November and Make America Great Again! Your donation will help us accomplish this -- and more.

Together, our voices are becoming louder and clearer, representing a bright new future for our great nation full of more opportunities for everyone, not just a select few.

We thank you for your continuous support,

Team TRUMP

jaydub said...

Has anyone even considered how idiotic it is to suggest that the candidates' VP pics could be appropriate substitutes for the candidates, themselves? Only one person in the US has voted for either one during the current political process - Clinton for Kaine and Trump for Pence - and neither of those votes was for president. Moreover, if Kaine or Pence had run for president, which they didn't, exactly how many more votes does anyone think they would have received? I'm not sure whose reputation has taken the biggest hit from this post, the NYT for running that oped from some advertising partner no one's ever heard of, or AA and the commentors on this thread who give the idea anything but scorn.

Rusty said...

They'd vote for Pence???? Make me gag.That man wants to reduce the reproductive rights of women to pre-1972.

He's going to stop you from fucking? Or is he going going to make you live up to the consequences of your fucking.

Brando said...

I'd be pretty fine with a Pence-Kaine race--neither seems particularly objectionable. I'm sure once such a race got going, though, the mud would fly and the Dems would be going on about what a gay-hating right wing whacko Pence is, and the Repubs would be going on about what a left-wing socialist swampy Kaine is. But that's to be expected. It'd still put us in a much better place than the race to the bottom we now have.

Humperdink said...

victoria said: "That man wants to reduce the reproductive rights of women to pre-1972."

We've come a long way baby on the reproductive rights front. Reproductive rights now include selling off dead baby parts. Who knew Planned Parenthood would turn a right into a recycling venture? And a profitable one at that!

DavidD said...

I'm torn between "I'd be satisfied and would vote for Pence." and "I'd do what I already want to do and write in Cruz."

tim in vermont said...

For sale: baby parts,
never used.


Apologies to Hemingway

dbp said...

If both candidates backed out, why would their VP choice be the pick? Shouldn't the person who came in 2nd in the nomination process get the nod? That would make it Cruz and Bernie.

Brando said...

"If both candidates backed out, why would their VP choice be the pick? Shouldn't the person who came in 2nd in the nomination process get the nod? That would make it Cruz and Bernie."

Well, the VP picks were actually nominated by their parties, but I guess the question is what each state's ballot rules are when the top of the ticket drops out. I think for many of them only death or incapacity can allow a party to replace the top of the ticket.

Unknown said...

Hahahahahahaaah! Terry, you're an idiot, now go donate another $100 to Trump!

tim in vermont said...

And you go flog some more Neocon frustration that they didn't get their dream candidate, but hey! Hillary is the next best thing!

tim in vermont said...

I hate the way Cardinal Richelieu Cruz is always hovering in the background, sniffing for opportunities to power.

AJ Lynch said...

"She slipped on a step and people helped her. Stop contributing to the escalation of bullshit, could you?"

Althouse:
a- you don't know that for a fact. You are accepting what the campaign claims happened [that she slipped].
b- this supposedly happened in February?Why was the picture embargoed until now?
c- Since you don't know what actually happened, you are also escalating the bullshit.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

For years the press has been hiding that Hillary needs help climbing stairs due to the lingering effects of a childhood bout of polio.

Alexander said...

Bush speechwriter playing concerntroll. Not surprised.

I'm obviously on the Trump-train-has-no-breaks bandwagon, and have been since last summer. Choo-choo!

But even so, this guy is a special brand of stupid.

If Trump pulls out now:

1. Trump is still going to be vilified by the left as evil racist bigot babykiller. That's a done deal.

2. He'll be viewed quite rightly as a loser and betrayer to his own group.

So there goes the TRUMP MUST LEAVE NOW TO SAVE HIS BRAND bullshit.

On top of that, two seconds after hypothetical Pence pulls the knife out of Trump's kidney, ABCNNBC JezebelHuffingtonGawkerBuzzfeedYahooPlannedParenthood will be going on 24/7 about how the tea leaves have cleared and it turns out Pence was Hitler this entire time.

It turns out there's nothing a Republican can do (especially a white, male one) to avoid being Hitler.

It pains me to say this, but conservatives are political cowards compared to Democrats. You won't see a democrat going onto MSNBC to condemn communists. Nobody will punch left and say "boy, Venezuala went down the crapper, fast. We ought to question any democrat politician who said a nice thing about Chavez and question their judgement." Nobody will say "I am for unisex public bathrooms but as I oppose corporate lobbying, I condemn big companies threatening to boycott southern states over it." None of them will demand Rangel explain why he deserves armed guards but banning guns for the rest of us is A-OK.

But conservatives? They can't stab one another in the back fast enough if it means a ten second reprieve from a liberal calling them a racist.

But no more! Onwards and Upwards, Trump train! Choo-choo and damn the pejoratives thrown at us!

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

I am glad that I am paying precious little attention to this crap.

Fernandinande said...

Ann Althouse said...
"Has anyone seen Hillary try to go up a set of stairs lately? That woman is not well."
She slipped on a step and people helped her. Stop contributing to the escalation of bullshit, could you?


When is the last time you slipped on a step and were helped?

Darrell said...

Hillary had another brain fart yesterday. She started throwing out the buzzwords from the latter portions of her spiel at random while appearing dazed and confused.

Alexander said...

She slipped on a step and people helped her. Stop contributing to the escalation of bullshit, could you?

The pictures I saw were not the picture of 'woah misstepped, thanks for catching my arm as I rebalance.'

The idea that she slipped on a step and people helped her. People! Plural people help get you up a staircase, but that's totally normal? Right.

The media has a time-honored tradition of covering the health concerns of Democratic Candidates, be they Woodrow Wilson, FDR, JFK, or Hillary Clinton. If there's an official media story about Hillary was merely being helped up the stairs, I give it the same due consideration as stories that she was NOT frozen by protesters but was merely taking a moment to respond, or that she wagged her head to make a joke about a frozen coffee.

mikee said...

I'd expect to be able to vote for Creepy Uncle, Joe Biden, for president rather than Kaine, under the Toricelli rule of Democrats getting to ignore laws when elections occur.

Brando said...

Gerald Ford, perhaps our most athletic president of all time, slips on icy steps a couple times and the media can't get enough of the narrative of a bumbler. Meantime, JFK couldn't sit up straight without a steady dose of painkillers and suffered chronic illnesses, and they can't stop going on about his "vigor". Sometimes they'll twist the coverage to fit the narrative they want.

Of course, the candidates have to be careful not to play into those narratives. Nixon was recovering from a knee injury and a cold before his first debate, and rather than reschedule or use extensive makeup, he went in a bit dazed and pallid. Meantime the pillpopper from Boston gets to come across cool and relaxed.

victoria said...

Rusty, shame on you. Nasty nasty nasty. Foul language, bad.

I look at those poor children left in cars to die from being overheated, i see articles on people starving their children and tying them up, shackling them to basement walls and left to die... it makes me physically ill. I think we need more access, not less, to medical information and alternative forms of birth control.

To the idiot who suggested that Planned Parenthood is selling baby parts, you know that it was proven that the video was doctored and that nothing of the kind ever happened. Cling to your 1950's "values", which never really existed. Things were not better in the '50's (i was there) they were just different.


Vicki from Pasadena

Unknown said...

To the idiot who suggested that Planned Parenthood is selling baby parts, you know that it was proven that the video was doctored and that nothing of the kind ever happened.

What a good little Eichmann you are, Vicki.

victoria said...

I don't think so, Unknown. You are usually so right on about things. You are so no right on about this. It has been proven and documented.

You should do a little more research on Eichmann... Nasty. Blindly obeying is more of a right wing thing than my thing.


Vicki from Pasadena

Unknown said...

What do you think you mean when you say "doctored?" Like faked content, a Photoshop or CGI of someone saying something they didn't really say?

No more doctored than any news report it interview that is trimmed for length.

Tell me anything false in it. Tell me anything exculpatory that was excised.

People throw buzzwords out there and decent people like you can be fooled.

Or want to be fooled, hence Eichmann.

Big Mike said...

Blindly obeying is more of a right wing thing than my thing.

Not in the U.S. of A. Over here the people who salute and fall in line are the lefties; the conservatives are the ones most likely to say "Up yours, you worthless a**hole." Which is what I'd say to you, Vicki.

FWIW the video was not doctored. What was heard on the video was precisely what was said by the people who said it. The video image shown was of a different premature baby, probably one born too soon to survive, but one at essentially the same stage of development as the one being discussed in by the Planned Parenthood employee. Whether or not Planned Parenthood "sold baby parts" is the sort of semantic issue that keeps lawyers fully employed. Planned Parenthood is forbidden to "sell" fetal tissue, however it is permitted to charge shipping and handling fees, and other overhead fees, and the fee list I've seen suggests that there is considerable profit hidden inside that fees structure.

It would be great if we could get past the BS on abortion and Planned Parenthood. Heller is much more likely to be overturned than Roe v. Wade, so let's all learn to accept abortion and move on. And Planned Parenthood is a shady organization that pushes abortion very hard. That wouldn't be so bad if they (1) would admit that things can go wrong with the procedures and therefore there is no excuse for their clinics not being up to standards as outpatient surgery centers, and (2) offered a fuller range of services to women -- it is an absolute myth that Planned Parenthood offers breast cancer screening, for instance.

victoria said...

I'm not the one being fooled. You righties are all falling into lockstep behind Donald Trump and, to use a Jim Jones reference, are drinking the DT Koolade.

You know, Big Mike, i accept that Roe V Wade is the law of the land and want to move on in a positive way from that. All i know about Planned Parenthood is how wonderful it was to us college students in the '70's and '80's with family planning and cancer screenings. You may be right that they are a "shady" organization.

This blind allegiance to Trump and his bull#$%& is worrisome. He scares me as much, if not more, than Hillary does.

I liked the post on Facebook last week,"We are a country of over 290 million people and this is the best we've got? Pathetic. A liar and a misogynist? I' ll leave it up to you to pick which one is which. Both bad.

And, Unknown, i suspect you are too young to remember the Eichmann trials. I am not. Shame on you.


Vicki from Pasadena

Big Mike said...

@Vicki from Pasadena, please learn to use your eyes to read and your mind to process what you read. There are vastly more people falling in behind Hillary Clinton despite all the evidence that she is totally unfit for the office. I've been a Republican for probably longer than you've been alive and I see plenty of warts on Donald Trump. He doesn't appear to be as incompetent as Hillary Clinton and he does not lie as an automatic reflex, so I'll probably vote for him in November. He will have a steep learning curve, but unlike Hillary Clinton he has not yet fallen off it.

I think you're the one who is drinking the Kool-Aid if you regard Donald Trump as a racist or a misogynist. The evidence that you are wrong about it is out there -- you have but to question your assumptions and go look.