July 23, 2016

Tim Kaine: "I’ll enforce the death penalty as governor and I’m against same-sex marriage."

"I’m conservative on personal responsibility, character, family and the sanctity of life. These are my values, and that’s what I believe."

168 comments:

Bay Area Guy said...

Typical Dem - talks tough to win elections, but votes lock, stock with Nancy Pelosi.

Unknown# 44 said...

Yes, he's more conservative than Trump.

Hari said...

"What difference does it make?"

CarlF said...

His rating with conservative groups is 0. His ratings with liberal groups is primarily 100, with a 94 snuck in. This is the definition of moderate in the modern media.

Unknown said...

I have principles. If you don't like those, I have others. What a pudding-faced nonentity.

rcocean said...

Bill Clinton said the same thing in 1992 and we all know what a big conservative he turned out to be.

Next, they'll be telling us that Kaine is a fiscal conservative because VA had a balanced budget and is middle of the road on Abortion because he is "personally" against it.

rcocean said...

I for one am "personally" against cannibalism but don't want to impose my beliefs on others.

rcocean said...

Look at Kaine's record in the Senate. He's voted the straight liberal party line.

That's the real Kaine.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Ha, I saw this buzzfeed thing a long time ago. It's funny for Althouse to latch on to it.

There are times when Althouse posts something that makes me think she's got it goin on. And then, there are times when Althouse posts things that make me think she's a straw grasping paper tiger wanabe.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Speaking of Buzzfeed.

I miss Ben Smith's blog-thingy.

Michael The Magnificent said...

This is the definition of moderate in the modern media.

Remember, anybody to the right of Stalin (i.e. Hitler) is right wing, because Stalin represents the center. At least according to leftists, who will tell you that they are moderate centrists if you ask them; It's right wingers who are the extremists.

rhhardin said...

He's a nutball social conservative then.

Against gay marriage and for civil unions would be okay.

eric said...

I'm curious, Althouse.

Do you believe him, or is this like when Obama and Clinton said they were for traditional marriage but then later evolved?

Is this one of those harmless lies that helps them get votes from the more traditional amongst us, like Catholic hispanics and evangelical blacks?

Wayworn Wanderer said...

Does he smoke cigars like Bill Clinton?

Terry said...

Today I listened to the post-convention Ricochet podcast. A few members of the round table said that they would rather have the house and senate under GOP control with Hillary as Prez, than the house and senate under GOP control with Trump as Prez. They also said that they would never vote for Hillary, and I thought "why not?"
If you are so frightened of Trump as head of state that you, as a Republican, prefer Hillary, you should join the Democrats and vote for Hillary.
Let's have some consistency, here.
After Kaine's words on immigration I will vote for Trump. I am an honest, hardworking, tax paying American citizen and I will be damned if I will have any part of a political party that considers me a lesser citizen.

buwaya puti said...

He seems a perfectly capable funeral director, to wear a suit well and say all the expected things, to accompany the embalmed corpse the Democratic cult of death has chosen to be queen of their necropolis.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

eric,

Look at the dates of these ads and compare to what BHO and HRC were saying back then.

You'll quickly see the nothing burger that Althouse seems to have missed.

HeideCruise said...

Maybe it's a signal to Althouse readers that Althouse might consider voting for Hillary because she has such a "conservative" running mate. Think? Maybe she wants to break it to her readers easy, so as not to have a major reader meltdown when she tells you who she voted for.

Darrell said...

Kaine isn't able.

Gahrie said...

If he believes in personal responsibility and the sanctity of life, he has a duty to oppose abortion, and seek to end abortion both personally and professionally.

Unknown said...

No, she likes meltdowns. Y'all are new around here, ain't you?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"Kaine isn't able."

Very clever. Presumably you're the first to think of that?

rcocean said...

Wrote it before, will write it again.

Kaine is Harvard Law. Supports TPP, open borders, globalization, Wall street bailouts, planned parenthood, Obamacare, Gay marriage, affirmative action, etc.

He's no more a "Moderate" than Bill Clinton is.

Gahrie said...

Maybe she wants to break it to her readers easy, so as not to have a major reader meltdown when she tells you who she voted for.

None of her long time readers will be a bit surprised if she comes out the day after the election and says she voted for Hillary.

Most of us are here despite her politics, not because of them.

Terry said...

I think the fault with people like Kaine, who say that they oppose abortion personally, believe that it is the taking of a human life, etc., and yet still support public funding of abortion, is that despite their own words, they, themselves, are willing to pay for a woman to have an abortion.

Jon Burack said...

HeidiCruise says: "Maybe it's a signal to Althouse readers that Althouse might consider voting for Hillary because she has such a "conservative" running mate. Think?"

Good lord, Heidi, I for one do not care who Althouse votes for. Is that what taking part in discussions here is all about - deciding what Althouse thinks so we can then react to Althouse? I for one won't vote for either Trump or Hillary, since I believe neither one offers the nation anything of value. If Althouse, or you for that matter, vote differently, I will be happy to live with it and with you and go from there. It may seem odd to you, but I come from a time and place where EVERYONE I ever knew felt exactly as I do about this. I hope that time and place returns some day.

rcocean said...

Hillary: Time's gettin' pretty short.
Kaine: It sure is.
Hillary: When are the other boys gonna get here? We gotta make plans.
Kaine: The other boys? There aren't any other boys, Hiilary. It's just you and me.
Hillary: [nervously smiles and chuckles] You're jokin'.
Kaine: No, I couldn't get anybody.
Hillary: I don't believe it. This country ain't that low.
Kaine: I couldn't get anybody.
Hillary: Then it's just you and me.
Kaine: I guess so.
Hillary: You and me against Trump and all the rest of them?
Kaine: That's right. Do you want out, Hillary?
Hillary: Well, it isn't that I want out, no. You see. Look, I'll tell ya the truth. I didn't figure on anything like this, Kaine.
Kaine: Neither did I.

bagoh20 said...

Sounds like the kind of guy who would recommend indicting Hillary. Has anyone asked him?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

A) Terry is unaware of the Hyde amendment.

B) Terry believes that lying is justified in some situations.

C) Terry believes Hyde exceptions for life of mother, rape, and incest are baby murder.

LYNNDH said...

Kaine, the Democrat Crutch.

SteveR said...

Yeah I've been around since 2004 and a HRC vote by Althouse has always been a near cinch especially since I can't see her voting for Trump this year. But she's so often read incorrectly by commenters that I can say for sure, if you think you know, you're wrong.

Lydia said...

Sounds like the kind of guy who would recommend indicting Hillary.

I don’t think so -- look how he defined “character” for us in his speech at the rally with Hillary in Miami:

If you want to try to judge the character of people in politics, I will tell you how to do with, and it is really simple. Look at their life and see if they have a passion in their life that they have long before they got into politics, a passion that is not about themselves, a passion that is about somebody else, and then see if they have held onto that passion through thick or thin, in good times or bad, come hell or high water, and see if they have held onto it all of the time, and that is character, and that is our kids and families first Hillary Clinton!

Forget corruption, etc., just look for that passion. A guy who really struggles with his conscience. Right.

The Drill SGT said...

LOL,

He's a Dem, willing to pander to anyone, anytime, about anything

M Jordan said...

Kaine doesn't turn me on. I'm with herr.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"Sounds like the kind of guy who would recommend indicting Hillary."

Is that your way of saying he sounds like an unreasonable prosecutor?

The Republican FBI boss says that an unreasonable prosecutor would be required for such an indictment. OTOH, presumably you know more than him: you probably have a law degree from con-media U. Finest school in the land.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Drill,

I don't think any pol will ever be accused of BS pandering because Trump raised the standard to some alternate universe:

“I have a message for all of you: The crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon come to an end. Beginning on January 20, 2017, safety will be restored,”

rcocean said...

A change in leadership is required to get a change in outcomes. Tonight, I will share with you my plan of action for America. The most important difference between our plan and that of our opponent, is that our plan will put America First. Americanism, not globalism, will be our credo. As long as we are led by politicians who will not put America First, then we can be assured that other nations will not treat America with respect—the respect that we deserve.”

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

rc,

Is that more BS to go from Trump to go w/ my quote from him?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

At least BHO said that it would be several generations down the road that would look back and see that we started to make changes that would limit the rate at which the seas would rise.

And then, cons quickly removed the nuance to claim BHO was parting the Red Sea. Trump throws out the fine print himself. Throwing out the fine print is not trivial. It turns lawyerly accurate into F-ing BS. These are quite different things.

HeideCruise said...

No indeed it is not Jon Burack. I often have opinions that are contrary to Althouse's and I don't care who she votes for. It's simply fun trying to guess.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Lawyerly accurate may be annoying, but we can work w/ it. Total BS is not workable.

YoungHegelian said...

“I’ll enforce the death penalty as governor and I’m against same-sex marriage.

In 2005, this was acceptable speech within the Democratic Party Line. About 2013, that all changed. What happened in the great big world that made that change is another matter, but it changed & such thoughts became "evil-speak" in the Democratic Party.

Just like, overnight, the Party Line changed when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

YoungH as a fan of history surely appreciates the upbeat tone of foreign leaders who wanted to make American Great:

"I am very glad to be able to express my friendly feelings toward the American nation. Friendship with which Italy looks at millions of citizens who, from Alaska to Florida, from the Pacific to the Atlantic, live in the United States, Italy is deeply rooted in our hearts. This feeling created by mutual interests so contributed to preparation of an even brighter era in the lives of both nations.

I greet with wonderful energy the American people and I see and recognize among you the salt of your land, as well as ours, my fellow citizens who are working to make America great.

I salute the great American people. I salute the Italians of America who unite in a single love of two nations."


Sebastian said...

“I’m conservative on issues of personal responsibility,” Kaine said. “As a former Christian missionary, faith is central to my life. I oppose gay marriage, I support restrictions on abortion — no public funding and parental consent — and I’ve worked to pass a state law banning partial-birth abortion.” The usual dissimulation. Just what you'd expect from a very boring Dem. Perfect for the Althouses of the world. "As a former Christian missionary" is a nice touch though. Goes O one better, who "as a Christian" believed marriage was between a man and a woman.

wildswan said...

Trump was silent on abortion during his speech but probably supports it (personally). Kaine said he opposed it (personally). Who then is more opposed?

It's easy to see that major players want the issue to go away. And that's strange because people are just beginning to realize the implications of the birth crash which is a consequence of contraception/abortion as we know it. That is, boomers are just now realizing what exactly are the consequences of the demographic regime they chose thirty years ago when they made reproductive choices. They did not realize they were choosing their type of old age pension (insufficient) when they chose the number of their children (below replacement level) but they were doing both.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Btw, thinking about how some of us will look to historians in the future, this is interesting:

"As the number of Italians coming to the United States increased, so did tensions with those already here. In 1920, The Washington Post editorialized for new constraints on immigration from Southern Europe, saying that "the alien scum from the cesspools and sewers of the Old World has polluted the clear spring of American democracy.""

How many cons would like to see this sort of wapo editorializing today, re Muslims and Mexicans?

jelink said...

HeideCruise said...
Maybe it's a signal to Althouse readers that Althouse might consider voting for Hillary because she has such a "conservative" running mate. Think? Maybe she wants to break it to her readers easy, so as not to have a major reader meltdown when she tells you who she voted for.

************************

I'm not yet prepared to believe Althouse would do that, but I think millions of American women, once they've stepped into the privacy of the voting booth, will loosen their belts, pull the front of their panties out a few inches, stare down, and say to themselves, "Yes!! THAT's why I'm voting for Hillary!!!"

For some reason, I don't the overwhelmingly male membership of the UK Conservative party did the same when they elected Maggie to be PM.

Repeal the 19th Amendment!!!

YoungHegelian said...

@PB&J,

Is that boilerplate quotation from Mussolini supposed to have any relevance here?

The FDR administration had many folks in it that admired Fascist Italy. Fascist Italy was never the moral abomination that National Socialism appeared to be. And, besides, for those of a dirigiste frame of mind, like many FDR apparatchniks, they admired the fact that in 1932, the country in Europe that had the highest percentage of state ownership of the means of production was the USSR. The second was Italy.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

wildswan,

I could be wrong, but I'd bet that plenty of well of gals had abortions from F-ing around as kids, and then went on to careers and families of good dough levels.

Do we know for sure that these young girls would be financially better off in the long run (as you say) if they started raising children when they were barely out of childhood themselves? We already have all sorts of folks w/ not enough skills or education to fulfill the sort of high paying job positions which currently have very low unemployment numbers. From you POV which is focused on dollars and cents, would it be better to have more poor, uneducated folks who can't do the work that is in demand?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

YoungH,

Did you did see the second quote? Last time I checked "scum" was not a nice thing to say about folks.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cog said...

In the aftermath of the Obergefell decision, progressive politics became a full-fledged American religion. Progressives finally sanctified self-willfulness, all consensual sex, abortion, and same sex marriage. Christians, to avoid punishment, you must follow in the footsteps of self-described traditional Catholic Tim Caine and realign your beliefs to the progressive religion. But don't worry, you can still sit in your favorite church pew on Sundays, the model of hypocrisy.

chickelit said...

I'm still waiting for an open and honest discussion of Trump's "woman problem" and Hillary's "man problem." I've got it figured out, but America refuses to talk about it.

bagoh20 said...

"It turns lawyerly accurate into F-ing BS. These are quite different things."

It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Cog,

You describe a situation where Christians can have zero abortions, zero gay spouses and zero sex. And, they can go to church 24/7.

It's hard to feel too bad for them because they can't stop other people from having sex and such. Likewise, is it really that awful that they can't force other folks to go to church on Sunday or any other time?

YoungHegelian said...

@PB&J,

Did you did see the second quote? Last time I checked "scum" was not a nice thing to say about folks.

Well, yes, that's true. But I have no idea how you intended to join those two quotes together to mean anything. They seem to me to be completely unrelated, & I spoke only to the Mussolini quote.

By the way, those folks, like the WaPo, who wished to keep out those nasty southern Italian types, they weren't just the political ancestors of nasty, modern, xenophobic Trumpites. They were also the Progressive ancestors of modern liberalism, too. Wilson & his cohort, too, wanted to keep the rabble in line so that "the adults in the room" could run things. Like this:

"Who Willed American Participation” (editorial) The New Republic, April 14, 1917, 308-310.

“The American nation is entering this war under the influence of a moral verdict reached after the utmost deliberation by the more thoughtful members of the community. They gradually came to a decision that the attack made by Germany on the international order was sufficiently flagrant and dangerous to justify this country in abandoning its cherished isolation and in using its resources to bring about German defeat. But these thoughtful people were always a minority. They were able to impose their will upon a reluctant or indifferent majority partly because the increasingly offensive of German military and diplomatic policy made plausible opposition to American participation very difficult, but still more because of the overwhelming preponderance of pro-Allies conviction in the intellectual life of the country. If the several important professional and social groups could have voted separately on the question of war and peace, the list of college professors would probably have yielded the largest majority in favor of war, except perhaps that contained in the Social Register. A fighting anti-German spirit was more general among physicians, lawyers and clergymen than it was among business men except those with Wall Street and banking connections. Finally, it was not less among writers on magazines and in the newspapers. They popularized what the college professors had been thinking. Owing to this consensus of influences opposition to pro-Allies orthodoxy became intellectually somewhat disreputable, and when a fateful decision had to be made this factor counted with unprecedented and overwhelming force. College professors headed by a President who had himself been a college professor contributed more effectively to the decision in favor of war than did the farmers, the business men or the or the politicians.”

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

YoungH,

I bring up these historical references not to point to who may have been expressing them during their era. I'm asking who in today's politics is echoing them? You can claim that HRC (because of her self identification as a progressive), rather than DJT(because of his self identification as a person w/ near-demigod fixit capabilities), is echoing them. It's a free country.

BTW, what do you think about Kasparov saying Trump reminds him of Putin? To me it's interesting because I've seen Kasparov ripping BHO apart on Fox. In other words, if anything I'd think he may have a pro R POV.

Unknown said...

Solzhenitsyn liked Putin. Probably because whatever his faults, he had Mother Russia's interests at heart. Whatever Trump's faults, he has America's interests at heart.

HeideCruise said...

That is a matter of opinion, many disagree. Go figure.

Levi Starks said...

Clearly he has the same unchangeable core character as Hillary. They'll make a great team.

HeideCruise said...

Trump likes Putin too. What a coincidence.

HeideCruise said...

Maybe Trump has Mother Russia's interests at heart too.

YoungHegelian said...

@PB&J,

I'm asking who in today's politics is echoing them?

And what I'm saying is it's the Democrats who are echoing the 1920's Progressive's love of all things "expert", & using that love against democracy by the "wrong kind of people".

BTW, what do you think about Kasparov saying Trump reminds him of Putin?

Trump reminds me more of Putin than Hillary does, too. I mean, Hillary's an entitled ditz who thinks it's "her turn now", not "men of AK-shun!". Will Trump start to show some of Putin's more disagreeable traits when in office? Could be, but I doubt it. Just as Trump is a symptom not a cause of American politics, so Putin's strong man tactics & corruption is deeply rooted in Russian history.

Unknown said...

Blogger HeideCruise said...
Maybe Trump has Mother Russia's interests at heart too.
7/24/16, 12:18 AM

Yeah, maybe he'll betray all our secrets and sell them our uranium! Oh wait, Hillary already did that.

HeideCruise said...

Maybe Trump wants Putin to fight ISIS for us, who knows what sort of "deal" he'll make. Trump liked those dictators, like Gadaffi and Saddam Hussein and has said it would've been better if they had remained in power, Putin agrees.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

YoungH,

You're probably not going to be surprised to know that, at this point, I'm w/ Kasparov's POV.

If Trump becomes a smarmy word parser who carefully weaves a story that is technically true, I'm open to joining your POV. But, if he continues trying to earn my vote by assuming I'm a total idiot (e.g. telling me (in a prepared speech) that he can immediately end all crime and violence), it's not going to work out. But, it's cute that you're on the train when you hear DJT will immediately solve America's problems.

HeideCruise said...

Trump: World would be '100%' better with Hussein, Gadhafi in power.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/25/politics/donald-trump-moammar-gadhafi-saddam-hussein/

YoungHegelian said...

@HeideCruise,

like Gadaffi and Saddam Hussein and has said it would've been better if they had remained in power

So did the ant-war Left, if my memory serves me correctly. It was those nasty Bushies & their war which stirred up the hornets nest that those guys had all bottled up. Or at least, that's how the Code Pinksters, et al. tell the tale.

HeideCruise said...

"But, it's cute that you're on the train when you hear DJT will immediately solve America's problems."

And only he alone can do it.

HeideCruise said...

Well maybe Trump IS secretly a leftie.

Cog said...


PB&J: "You describe a situation where Christians can have zero abortions, zero gay spouses and zero sex. And, they can go to church 24/7."

The situation I'm describing is that if you are a traditional Christian (who refuses to "evolve" like the hypocrite Kaine) be prepared to hide your opinions from your employers, teachers, etc. if you want to succeed in business or school. Also, keep in mind that religious freedom died 5 years ago when Obamacare first required religious employers to swallow their religious values in health plans. Don't forget what happened to Mozilla CEO Brenden Eich when he was hounded out of his job in a social media witch hunt by progressives for donating $1000 to Prop 8 campaign some years earlier. And every baker with traditional Christian values surely knows by now they will financially ruin you with fines and lawsuits if you don't convert to the new progressive religion.

YoungHegelian said...

@PB&J,

But, it's cute that you're on the train when you hear DJT will immediately solve America's problems.

I have no love for the Trumpster. But, whatever his problems are, I am sure that neither he nor his immediate crew are traitors. I don't know that with HRC.

I have no idea how much you follow Althouse, but I have stated here that I have been a system administrator with a TS clearance in charge of a secure email server. I know what HRC & her assholes did at State, & I know the damage done. They are either traitors or so incredibly incompetent that they shouldn't even be working at the local Post Office. I would crawl over a mile of broken glass to vote against HRC.

HeideCruise said...

"They are either traitors or so incredibly incompetent that they shouldn't even be working at the local Post Office."

Right wing shillary.

Chuck said...

Of course Barack Obama was lying in 2008 when he claimed to oppose same-sex marriage. And nobody knows if Hillary Clinton was lying at that same time, because no one -- not even Hillary -- knows whether she truly believes anything at all, apart from whatever has current political utility for her.

But I regard the 2005 Tim Kaine opposition to same sex marriage as more credible than the 2016 Donald Trump opposition to same sex marriage.

YoungHegelian said...

@HeideCRuise,

You ever had a TS clearance? You know anything about computer security or maintaining a highly secured network?

If the answer is no, fuck off, bitch! You're out of your league...

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

YoungH,

You're kidding, right?

At least you included the staff other than HRC.

HRC, herself, sent exactly one email that had the letter "C" (for the lowest level of classification) next to a text of a passage that was in the body of an email where State says this passage was correctly marked. The FBI says there were two other "C" marked excerpts, but State says those were mistakenly marked.

Get over yourself if you think you're going to lock up HRC for this. The FBI said it made no sense to prosecute her.

Btw, do you know that this recommended a harsh prosecution of Petraeus but BHO's DOJ decided to go for less? Imagine what cons would say if the DOJ did less than the FBI recommendation for HRC.

HeideCruise said...

FBI doesn agree with you. big man.

HeideCruise said...

As I said, shillary.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Btw, do you know that FBI this recommended....

Do you think Petraeus is a traitor?

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

...this FBI...

HeideCruise said...

Of course he doesn't.

YoungHegelian said...

@PB&J,

Get over yourself if you think you're going to lock up HRC for this. The FBI said it made no sense to prosecute her.

And there was no whiff of corruption about that, was there? Comey's speech that gave every reason to prosecute but didn't. Bill's meeting on the tarmac.

Are you really so blind that in an administration as corrupt as the Obama administration, that the head Democratic crime family, the Clintons, couldn't pull the strings that needed to be pulled? That the Democrats were going to stand by while their electoral hopes imploded? Are you that naive?

You would never, ever, give a Republican admin the benefit of those doubts. Never!

I know what I know, & I know things that the FBI hasn't discussed. HRC's behavior at State was criminal at worst, insane at best.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Of course YoungH doesn't thing he's a traitor, even though a factual review of all the evidence proves that his actions were much worse.

Folks like YoungH wouldn't find themselves painted into this sort of corner if they'd be honest-driven rather than partisan-hack-driven.

HeideCruise said...

Now who needs a lecture on how we don't like no shills around these here parts? Could it be YH? Why yes!

YoungHegelian said...

@PB&J,

Of course YoungH doesn't thing he's a traitor, even though a factual review of all the evidence proves that his actions were much wors

Petreaus gave the secrets to his mistress, who herself had a TS clearance. HRC gave the DoS secrets to the world.

I'm not asking for Petraeus to be exonerated. He was stupid. Just not as stupid as the Hillary-ites.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

YoungH,

I don't know if you follow con-media. But, before Comey's decision there was a lot reporting that FBI staff were going to resign if there was no DOJ prosecution of HRC.

Then, Congress dragged Comey up there and asked him what the head count was among the investigators when the prosecute or not prosecute decision was made. It was unanimous that there should be no prosecution.

That must be why nobody resigned. Con media is lying to y'all.


chickelit said...

HeideCruise said...Well maybe Trump IS secretly a leftie.

I like that meme -- especially the subjunctive aspect. It's a magnet for disaffected Bernie supporters. Please keep at it!

YoungHegelian said...

PB&J/Heide,

If you think I'm full of shit, go find some folks in the Intel/Military community with TS clearances & ask them what they think about Hillary.

Get back to us with what they say, verbatim. We'll wait.

YoungHegelian said...

@PB&J,

hat FBI staff were going to resign if there was no DOJ prosecution of HRC.

They made them sign non-disclosure agreements, which are binding even after resignation.

If they spoke now, they'd go to jail.

Corruption, like I said.

HeideCruise said...

Petraeus’ case made him more legally vulnerable than Clinton. Petraeus knew that he was exposing confidential information and then lied to FBI investigators about it. Petraeus shared eight notebooks, called "black books," with Broadwell that contained his own handwritten notes on classified matters.

On the other hand, the information Clinton handled was electronic. Because there were thousands of emails on a private server that could be hacked, the information was more vulnerable to theft than Petraeus’ notebooks.

Petraeus’ mishandling of documents was indisputably intentional, and Petraeus obstructed justice by lying to FBI agents investigating the case.

In their investigation, the FBI found a tape of Petraeus acknowledging that information was classified before giving it to Broadwell anyway. Petraeus agreed in his plea deal that his actions "were in all respects knowing and deliberate.""

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/07/trump-revives-accusation-double-standard-between-c/



PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

YoungH,

I know you're full of shit.

You keep writing things as if the FBI didn't investigate this.

If we didn't definitively know what happened your bluster would have a chance. But, we do know.



HeideCruise said...

Intent.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

Petraeus also misled the FBI.

It turns out that they don't care for that.

YoungHegelian said...

Is someone here defending Petraeus? I don't give a shit about Petraeus. He's not running for president.

HRC is the imbecile and/or traitor running for President.

Focus, people. Focus.

Terry said...

Blogger PBandJ_LeDouanier said...
YoungH,

. . .

If we didn't definitively know what happened your bluster would have a chance. But, we do know.

Why did Hillary choose to use a private server, PB&J? What was her motivation? Was it criminal?

chickelit said...

HeidiCruise wrote: Petraeus’ case made him more legally vulnerable than Clinton. Petraeus knew that he was exposing confidential information and then lied to FBI investigators about it.

"Legally vulnerable" is like beauty: it's all according to those eyes who be Holder.

Now, Holder was not AG, but Lynch was inexplicably bamboozled by Bill between flights.

YoungHegelian said...

@PB&J,

You keep writing things as if the FBI didn't investigate this.

And without a whiff of corruption. Right?

You really think that the Obama DoJ would allow the electoral prospects of the Democratic Party to be torpedoed. That no deal was made by Clinton on that tarmac.

I'm sorry, PB&J. Invincible ignorance.

I'm done for the evening.

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...

"They made them sign non-disclosure agreements, which are binding even after resignation.

If they spoke now, they'd go to jail. "


To be clear, you're saying Comey lied when he testified that not prosecuting HRC was a unanimous decision among the investigation staff?

Then, you and the Rs must be clamoring for a prosecution of Comey. Right?

HeideCruise said...

The FBI found no reason to believe she had criminal intentions for having her private server.

Skeptical Voter said...

Well Heide--the difference in terms of Petraeus response to the FBI is that he is generally an honorable man. as for Hillary, she is a power grabbing twit who would dismiss her own grandmother as "just a white woman". Seems I heard that line before.

HeideCruise said...

Oh sorry, I forgot that the FBI is corrupt too.

YoungHegelian said...

@Heide,

Oh sorry, I forgot that the FBI is corrupt too

I look forward to you saying how honorable the FBI/DoJ is to some local BLM activist after they clear a cop of killing some black kid.

'Cause, just like under J. Edgar Hoover, taping MLK & other 60's activists, the FBI is always above suspicion.

chickelit said...

PBandJ_LeDouanier scolded...I know you're full of shit.

You keep writing things as if the FBI didn't investigate this.



I always forget who won the J Edgar Hoover v. Bobby Kennedy showdown.

Maybe because it was marred by assassination(s).

Skeptical Voter said...

Oh heck Heide, I missed that "legally vulnerable" line, shades of that pusillanimous skunk Al Gore with his "no controlling legal authority" defensef for one of his shenanigans. Face it--just as gun control laws won't stop murder in the streets of Munich, there is no set of laws that will control a crooked Hillary, or Al Gore for that matter.

Terry said...

Congressman Keith Ellison was raised Catholic and converted to Islam.
Barack Obama was raised without religion and converted to Christianity.
Both give similar reasons for their conversion: They felt that their chosen religion was better suited to 'help their communities.'
The reason I put that in quotes is that 'help his community' is indistinguishable to both Ellison and Obama to personal political career success.
I am certain that there are people on the Right who choose their religion for the same religion. But no one looks at them as exemplars. No one identifies Newt Gingrich with Catholicism. No media people defend him from charges that he is not really a Catholic, or is a poor Catholic.

HeideCruise said...

Trump is the Law and Order candidate, he'll make everything OK, not to worry.

chickelit said...

HeideCruise reminds...Trump is the Law and Order candidate, he'll make everything OK, not to worry.

All Trump has to do is not be the lawless and chaotic POTUS. He only has to reverse two negatives to make a positive. :)

Terry said...

HeideCruise said...
The FBI found no reason to believe she had criminal intentions for having her private server.

7/24/16, 1:16 AM

This is a lie.
"Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information."

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

Let me repeat that: HeidiCruz has lied.

Jon Ericson said...

Well at least HeideCruise has taken my advice and started to write in a more "Freder" or "machine" style and dropped the Pee-Wee Herman shctick :)

chickelit said...

Speaking of lawlessness, Obama seems to have stopped shooting his mouth off, pumping up BLM.

Amirite?

He must be trying to keep Philly peaceful.

HeideCruise said...

Did you not read what you just posted?

"Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information."

Intent. No intent, no crime.

walter said...

Hil is the __ candidate.
Cat got yer tongue?

Paul said...

I have no doubt that his position will "evolve" like Obama's.

Lots of luck libs.

HeideCruise said...

Shillary, simply shillary. We don't like no shills around here.

walter said...

"we did not find clear evidence"
Yep..therefore..just go with extremely reckless. All good.

Terry said...

Read it again, HeidiCruz. "Not finding clear evidence" (Comey) is not remotely the same as "finding no evidence"(HeidiCruz).
Go back to your troll hole, liar.

Jon Ericson said...

Intent is irrelevant in mishandling classified information, HeideCruise.

walter said...

But you know..conduct worth of clearance disqualification..just not "criminal".
Vote her in!

HeideCruise said...

You can try to twist Comey's words to fit your narrative, but legal minds better than yours have agreed about Comey's decision not to prosecute. Now go have a cookie.

Jon Ericson said...

@walter: She and her gang put classified material on a private server. Laws are for the little people.

chickelit said...

"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters."

~Albert Einstein

walter said...

Jon Ericson,
Please understand..I deal with Clintonian matters with pronounced tongue in cheek.
you have to at this point.

chickelit said...

HeideCruise twerked...You can try to twist Comey's words to fit your narrative, but legal minds better than yours have agreed about Comey's decision not to prosecute. Now go have a cookie.

Who are those legal minds and who are their minders?

Terry said...

HeideCruise said...
You can try to twist Comey's words to fit your narrative, but legal minds better than yours have agreed about Comey's decision not to prosecute. Now go have a cookie.

You do not quote Comey's words. Why not?
I shall.
"Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.
Very different from your lie, HeidiCruz, "The FBI found no reason to believe she had criminal intentions for having her private server."

Jon Ericson said...

but legal minds better than yours - such a prick.
Hundreds of top-level bureaucrats (including President Obama) were involved.
My opinion is that Comey had little choice in the matter.
But at least he told the voting public they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.

Jon Ericson said...

Sorry walter, you weren't tongue-in-cheek enough! :)

chickelit said...

Jon Ericson said... She and her gang put classified material on a private server. Laws are for the little people.

"Let them eat FOI-gras" the Queen said.

walter said...

True..a mere preponderance of evidence only works in civil cases.
So..
Vote her in! ;)

walter said...

(Man..this cookie is good...think I'll have another)

Jon Ericson said...

Watch it, Walter, if it came from HeideCruise it might cause you to hallucinate too. :)

Terry said...

I am into epistemology. Y'know, "why you believe what you believe."
I would really, really like to know why HeidiCruz believes, as HeidiCruz has written, that "the FBI found no reason to believe she had criminal intentions for having her private server."
The words of HeidiCruz are at odds with the facts. Comey never said that the FBI found no reason to believe that Hillary had criminal intentions for having her private server.
Never. It did not happen. It is a HeidiCruz fantasy.
Did HeidiCruz get it from a pro-Hillary website? Is just the result of psychotropic drugs?
Please, please, HeidiCruz, tell us how your nimble brain reached the conclusion that "the FBI found no reason to believe she had criminal intentions for having her private server", since it is so much at odds with the actual words spoken by FBI director James Comey?

Jon Ericson said...

Don't harsh her mellow, Terry, She and Walter are on a different astral plane by now. :)

walter said...

Ummmmphhhtttt

walter said...

I just ate some porcupine kabob and rode a on the back of a walrus. What was in that cookie, Heide?

Jon Ericson said...

test

Big Mike said...

That was then; this is now. Back in those days Tim Kaine agreed with his predecessor Mark Warner that there was a difference between legal gun ownership and criminals who illegally acquired guns and used them to commit crimes.

whitney said...

Reading the comments makes me see that this election is not about voting for someone but voting against someone.

shiloh said...

"Maybe she wants to break it to her readers easy"

Shocking that an Althouse TK thread turns into a Hillary is a criminal thread notwithstanding, Althouse does not and never has cared what her 90/10 con lemmings think about her.

Repeating, Althouse does not care what anybody thinks about her. So "we" have that in common.

>

Interesting many cons get rather upset with many Althouse political positions/opinions, but they show up daily without fail hence, therefore, ergo ~ lemmings.

Indeed, it's very nice Althouse provides a platform for her troops to complain ad nasuseam. As always, I applaud her effort!

>

What does it matter what Althouse thinks? Do you want her to be on your side 100% of the time? It's that same arrogant/self-righteous, sarcastic I'm right and your wrong con self absorption that keeps losing Reps presidential elections. Go figure!

Compromise being such a dirty word to hard core Republicans.

Bruce Hayden said...

HeidiCruise believes what they believe because they are a (likely paid) Crooked Hillary shill. This is what they do, living in their parents' basement, and pretending they had a clue. I loved the resort to authority that better legal minds disagreed. The hilarious part there is their total lack of understanding that that is what lawyers do for a living. We argue the law and collect money for it. If HeidiCruise was willing to pay me enough money, I could probably put together a plausible argument that Crooked Hillary was the devil incarnate.

Dir Comey knew that there is no real legal difference between the extreme carelessness that he alleged for Herself, and the gross negligence required to violate the relevant espionage act statute. Legally, it doesn't require intent, and if it did, she did have intent. What she had was general intent to commit the acts that broke the law, just maybe not the specific intent to violate the law. Hard to believe that of a Yale law grad, but I always thought that school overrated. Note also, he didn't even mention the official records act, which was also applicable. I think that he knew that she violated several statutes, but wasn't going to have the FBI determining the Presidency. That was why, I think he told us that she met the requirements for prosecution, but there was no smoking gun of specific intent. Of course, they didn't swear her in, nor did they record her interview, the later standard practice with FBI interviews. I suspect that the reasons for that were that she wouldn't have made herself available for a recorded interview, and if it had been recorded, they would have caught her lying. At least as much as Scooter Libby, another political figure, who was convicted of lying to the FBI for saying he didn't remember. Oh, and the FBI agents were required to sign NDAs and take lie detector tests, to keep them from leaking, which is also unprecented. Should she have been prosecuted? Yes. Could she have been prosecuted? No.

shiloh said...

"I could probably put together a plausible argument that Crooked Hillary was the devil incarnate."

Bullshit! You'd do it for free er pro bono.

traditionalguy said...

Kaine is on Hillary's Ticket to be a visual contrast of a what a really nice man looks and acts like compared to The Donald. Hillary loses on that visual against Trump but Kaine wins on it.

Trump can only revert to NYC Values and say, "Nice men finish last"

The next 100 days will be one long Smear The Trump Marathon. Hillary's Media must make Trump seem totally abhorrent. He is already the end of the world for being vulgar and mentally ill man who has destroyed the GOP and NATO.

Bruce Hayden said...

I think that the reason those on the right here ride Ann a bit on her previous votes is that we like her, as evidenced by hanging around here so long. We are trying to bring her into the light, but she continues to back slide into the liberal orthodoxy so pervasive at her school in particular, and Madison in particular.

I do agree that it was a bit weird that the conversation devolved into one about Crooked Hillary's email server. But I think a lot of that can be blamed on Crooked Hillary shill HeidiCruise trying to defend the undefendable. They obviously hadn't been around for the many previous discussions in this area. And, yes, those of us on the right would rather talk about her law breaking and generally corrupt way of life, than talk about her deliberately innocuous VP pick. For a Democratic politician at his level, he is pretty nondescript - typical hard left voting record, minor bush league corruption, talks like a moderate, but acts and votes as an extreme leftist. Weak Catholic. Pretty blah. The only real interesting thing there was that she didn't pick one of the two (notably more corrupt and extreme) Hispanic cabinet members under consideration. Expect that Kaine's fluency in Spanish was thought to compensate for that. Pretty "me too" on her part, after the Republicans picked a Governor/former Representative of an important swing state.

Bruce Hayden said...

Ok - Indiana is not nearly as important as Ohio, which is what I had in mind. For some reason I keep getting Pence and Kasich mixed up.

Donatello Nobody said...

As JonEricson said at 1:42, intent is irrelevant in the mishandling of classified information. Comey introduced the concept of intent as a bit of sleight-of-hand to solve the political problem that would have been caused by indicting a major political party's presumptive nominee. Shame on anyone who can't see that. On second thought, anyone who says they don't see that is lying to cover up the fact that they already decided to vote Democrat no matter how corrupt their nominee.

Saint Croix said...

None of her long time readers will be a bit surprised if she comes out the day after the election and says she voted for Hillary.

I would be surprised.

Meade said...

I get no kick from Tim Kane.

mtrobertslaw said...

There are two competing views here about Hillary and her emails. One says she should have been charged and tried for a crime, the other, like Mr. Peanut Butter and Jelly, infers that she has a serious mental disorder that affects her judgment and that all she needs is therapy.

In either case, she is unqualified to be President.

Rusty said...

Meade said...
I get no kick from Tim Kane.

Mere vitriol doesn't thrill me at all.


How many coctails were consumed before you hit on that?

Anglelyne said...

PB&J: Btw, thinking about how some of us will look to historians in the future, this is interesting:

Not news to anyone who knows anything about immigration in this country.

"As the number of Italians coming to the United States increased, so did tensions with those already here. In 1920, The Washington Post editorialized for new constraints on immigration from Southern Europe, saying that "the alien scum from the cesspools and sewers of the Old World has polluted the clear spring of American democracy.""

And guess what, PB&J? There really were "rising tensions" consequent to the massive inflow of immigrants in the preceding decades. Which, contrary to modern propaganda, did not exist simply because "nativists" were meanies, but because such tensions are pretty much inevitable with such huge population inflows.

A few years after that article was written, the immigration spigot was turned off, allowing the "rising tensions" to settle down and assimilation to proceed, instead of exploding, as would have been the likely consequence of keeping 'em coming.

How many cons would like to see this sort of wapo editorializing today, re Muslims and Mexicans?

Well, it would certainly be a change from the current "die whitey die" editorial positions of all our goodthink publications.

Freder Frederson said...

Petreaus gave the secrets to his mistress, who herself had a TS clearance.

For someone who claims to have TS clearance, you sure don't know much about it. TS clearance only gives you access to classified information related to your job, not all classified information. Besides Patreus lied about giving the information to his mistress and she had it on an unsecured computer.

You don't even know if she had TS clearance. As a military officer she almost certainly had Secret clearance, but TS is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I doubt one in ten Army (especially reserve) officers has TS clearance.

Amadeus 48 said...

Kaine meant it when he said it He means it now that heis unsaying it. What he says means nothing.

Basil said...

Heide, are you asserting that Secratary Clinton set up her server by accident? Are you saying that those people who removed classification markings or paraphrased classical information did it by mistake? It's impossible to do what she did by accident.

Comey's investigation was a red herring. To fool small minded people.

Richard Vaughan said...

These are my values. And if you don't like them, I have others.

Achilles said...

Shiloh said:

"Interesting many cons get rather upset with many Althouse political positions/opinions, but they show up daily without fail hence, therefore, ergo ~ lemmings."

People who accept and discuss opposing points of view are lemmings...

You are really just stupid. Your posts run all of the same themes. You really don't think a whole lot do you... You are a Hillary supporter though.

Chuck said...

Kaine meant it when he said it He means it now that heis unsaying it. What he says means nothing.

7/24/16, 9:11 AM


That is certainly a fair criticism of Democrats, most particularly on the subject of same-sex marriage. Clinton and Obama are standout liars/reversal artists on that score. Add to them, damned near every other congressional Dem and every Dem governor, right up to about 2012, when Joe Biden and internal polling told them it was time to flip and there was no need to explain anything. Just change the position. ASAP.

Of all the leading [putative] Republicans, the one and only figure to have been guilty if that sort of shameless flip-floppery is Trump.



Jason said...

I had a TS clearance, commanded a military intelligence company, was a member of an MI battalion for five years, and ran a tactical operations center as a battle captain for 12 hours a day, with daily targeting meetings in Ramadi, Iraq for about 3 months. The TOC had both a NIPR and SIPR connection. I can't remember how many times I was required to sign a classified information handling statement or undergo mandatory training on computer network management. From at least 2008 forward I had to take an online course and pass a test just to be granted log on privileges on NIPR (not even SIPR!) at any new duty station just to check my email on a government computer.

Hillary had to have access to JWICS and that's even more sensitive.

I agree 100 percent with what Hegelian says: Hillary's conduct was so egregious, reckless and yes, criminal that ANYONE... ANYONE else who had done the same thing would have been frogmarched out of the office and facing multiple federal felony charges... serious ones. #FullStop. #Period.

What's more, accidental 'leakage' from classified to unclassified networks (JWICS to SIPR or NIPR or SIPR to NIPR) is a major, major concern for any shop entrusted with classified information. Anyone working in those shops, down to the pfc, is trained on the importance of preventing leakage. If it happened even accidentally, that soldier or civilian DoD employee would quickly have his or her clearance revoked pending review, and would be driving a truck until cleared.

Hell, if a soldier even did so much as plug his or her iPhone into the wrong USB port seeking to charge the battery, it would instantly cause an alert all the way up the chain to at least to the first G-6 shop, and the reaction from higher would quickly put the fear of God into the unit commander, 1SG, Battalion S-6 and local network administrator. Unscrewing that situation, tracking down the owner of the mobile device, and locking the gate until that phone could be confiscated would be priority one for the whole command. If it happened again, people would start getting sacked.

Shitbirds trying to wave away what Hillary did, personally, and what her staff did under her supervision, as no big deal have their heads shoved firmly up their asses.

coupe said...

Meade said...I get no kick from Tim Kane.

No, No, not that shit... a real negro work song, like da camp town ladies (Huma, et al)...

What in the wide wide world of sports is a'goin on here!

Paco Wové said...

All of my Facebook acquaintances that match Althouse's demographic characteristics – at least the ones who are on Facebook ALL THE F$%!!NG TIME – have little hearts in their starry eyes for Kaine. Calm, reassuring, Daddy-like, not like weird scary Trump. And Hillary has that whole XX thing going, so of course she's Qualified.

Althouse will vote for Clinton, no question about it.

JPS said...

Freder Frederson:

"You don't even know if she had TS clearance. As a military officer she almost certainly had Secret clearance, but TS is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I doubt one in ten Army (especially reserve) officers has TS clearance."

Be that as it may, maybe you can tell me what fraction of Reserve officers in her rank and branch have a Top Secret clearance? (Answer: ~ ten in ten, and the rest used to.) It is certainly true that that she did not have need to know, and that General Petraeus mishandled classified information by passing his books on to her. For that reason I would not support him for president, if he ran....

Jason: "Shitbirds trying to wave away what Hillary did, personally, and what her staff did under her supervision, as no big deal have their heads shoved firmly up their asses."

Well, you have to start with the premise that she must win, and reason backward. You quote the conclusions of Comey's remarks and stay far, far away from the substance, and eventually you conclude that anyone claiming to be appalled by the repeated transfer of TS and specialized stuff to an unsecured server is just being a partisan hack.

Renee said...

This is why I never changed my view on what we use to refer to as marriage, strangely some people respect the fact I didn't jump on right before the amenesty. So yeah I get crappy names, but obligations are objection. I keep on trying to stablize parental relationships where ever possible at a local level.

Unknown said...

Chucky, you're back! Blah blah blah blah fucking blah. You're burnt, your credibility is zero, your name is mud, you do not exist. You'll do better as Anonymous.

AprilApple said...

Hillary's supporters will lie for her. they like lies. they appreciate that Hillary is a liar.

n.n said...

So, he supports removing planned abortionists from civilized society and opposes selective exclusion (e.g. "="). The liberals and progressives must be apoplectic.

traditionalguy said...

New branding for Timmy: We had the old Kaine and now we have the Nova Caine.

cubanbob said...

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...
Btw, thinking about how some of us will look to historians in the future, this is interesting:

"As the number of Italians coming to the United States increased, so did tensions with those already here. In 1920, The Washington Post editorialized for new constraints on immigration from Southern Europe, saying that "the alien scum from the cesspools and sewers of the Old World has polluted the clear spring of American democracy.""

How many cons would like to see this sort of wapo editorializing today, re Muslims and Mexicans?

7/23/16, 11:19 PM"

Two small points for your edification:
1-The WaPo was not a Republican paper or right wing paper the or now.
2-To be blunt just compare the average IQ of Italians versus Mexicans. Or Arabs. So just exactly how is this country benefitted by allowing large numbers of immigrants with an average IQ well to the left of the current American bell? Do we have a shortage of poor people? Not enough work for the welfare industry workforce necessitating the importation of poor people to keep the Deep State workforce employed?

cubanbob said...

shiloh said...
"Maybe she wants to break it to her readers easy"

Shocking that an Althouse TK thread turns into a Hillary is a criminal thread...."

Shocking is that some people think it is perfectly fine to elect a known criminal and traitor for president. Decent, intelligent people do not go beyond that as that is an absolute disqualifier for the job. Not even for dogcatcher.

cubanbob said...

Freder Frederson said...
Petreaus gave the secrets to his mistress, who herself had a TS clearance.

For someone who claims to have TS clearance, you sure don't know much about it. TS clearance only gives you access to classified information related to your job, not all classified information. Besides Patreus lied about giving the information to his mistress and she had it on an unsecured computer.

You don't even know if she had TS clearance. As a military officer she almost certainly had Secret clearance, but TS is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I doubt one in ten Army (especially reserve) officers has TS clearance.

7/24/16, 8:52 AM"

Funny how you can't seem to connect the dots when it comes to Hillary! and her minions and her enablers at the White House.

Phil 3:14 said...

Evolution