June 12, 2016

How will Clinton and Trump and their proxies talk about the Orlando shooting/terrorism?

We saw how the different political candidates talked about the San Bernardino massacre, which happened last December. As I remember it, roughly, Clinton and Obama centered on guns and lectured us about the need for gun control, and Republicans talked about immigration policy and Islamic extremism.

Now, closer to the election, what framework will be imposed? Something was learned from the politics around San Bernardino and the primary season is over, so I suspect that Democrats will not choose to emphasize gun control (unless this turns out to have been a lone mentally ill person). The Democrats may try to use the idea of an attack on a gay club to criticize Donald Trump for creating a divisive atmosphere of hate, even though none of his alleged hate-mongering has been about gay people. As for what Trump and his proxies will say, it depends on who the murderer turns out to be.

I'm going to watch all the Sunday morning talk shows, and I will update this post as I hear various statements. The previous post is for comments about the terrible incident itself. Forgive me for being so brutal as to go immediately to the effect on presidential politics, but please keep the comments here to this topic, which I think is important because — like the San Bernardino massacre (and even more than it) — this event is a skewing point in electoral politics, and everyone speaking for the campaigns knows it. Sympathy will be expressed, along with warnings to wait to hear the facts, but the politics are underway, and I'm going to tell you about what everyone does on the TV shows this morning.

1. "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper devoted nearly the entire show to news coverage of the event. In the final 5-minute segment. Tapper displayed the tweets from Donald Trump — "Really bad shooting in Orlando. Police investigating possible terrorism. Many people dead and wounded." — and Hillary Clinton — "Woke up to hear the devastating news from FL. As we wait for more information, my thoughts are with those affected by this horrific act. -H" Tapper noted that the "H" at the end of a tweet on Hillary Clinton's account indicates that "she herself wrote that tweet." After that the guest is the Republican Congressman Peter King, who knows the name of the shooter but won't say it and knows of indications of "Islamist leanings," but the discussion was focused on the facts of the incident.

2. "Fox News Sunday" with Bret Baier went straight to politics, with Senator Jeff Sessions as the Trump proxy and Senator Amy Klobuchar as the Clinton proxy. Sessions, asked about the Orlando incident, said it "certainly looks like... Islamic extremism" and stressed the need to "openly and directly" confront the extremist element within Islam, including restricting immigration. Baier prompted him to connect the incident to guns and to Clinton's support for gun control, and Sessions slotted in his talking point about the Supreme Court and the supposed precariousness of the Second Amendment individual right to bear arms. Klobuchar emphasized waiting for more information and the importance of not seeming to accuse all Muslims (and she credited Sessions for having said the same thing). She brought up guns only when Baier asked her, and then only to blandly reference common-sense limits that wouldn't infringe the gun rights that she assured us Clinton believes in.

3. "Meet the Press" began with news and news analysis, and that analysis went heavily into the subject of guns, how much damage one person could do in a crowded place with the kind of guns this murderer had. The name is now being said, Omar Mateen, and there are repeated references to the man's father saying that his son was recently enraged when he saw 2 men kissing. I get the sense that the show would like to forefront hatred of gay people and minimize the significance of his religion, which is Muslim. The show switches over to Chuck Todd with the this set up: "Obviously, there are many elements to the story, we don't want to play the politics too much... but obviously, this will play into the presidential elections." That's not in the official show transcript (here). I guess the show got re-edited. Todd credits Trump and Clinton with being low key, but complains about the excessively political tweets of other, unnamed, politicians and homes in on gun control.

4. The "Face the Nation" time slot was straight news, no political spinning.

5. "This Week" with George Stephanopoulos had by far the most coverage of the presidential campaign, with a pre-recorded interview from Paul Ryan (that's worth discussing, but didn't cover the incident) and interviews with Trump's man Manafort and with Bernie Sanders. But there was a panel in the end — transcript —that eventually touched on the incident in the way that the second paragraph of this post anticipated. Katrina Vanden Heuvel was attacking Donald Trump for his "fear mongering and exploiting racial anxieties and bigotry" and, bringing up the Orlando incident, she said:
Donald Trump's idea of a counterterrorism program is banning all Muslims, bombing all families in the Middle East, essentially [sic] -- ISIS families, and torturing -- I think the, you know, grief and anger today. But we can't lose sight of senseless gun violence and the gun epidemic in this country. 66 people killed in Chicago in May. Hillary Clinton has a very strong gun control program. Trump, he's tethered to the NRA. I think that has to be...
When I heard that I said out loud, "That does not help Hillary." Then Donna Brazile followed on with generic references to "mass shootings" (and not terrorism), and I was saying "This isn't what Hillary wants to hear." That set up Bill Kristol, who prefaced his remark with "Look, I am anti-Trump" and proceeded with what I consider absolutely apt political analysis:
[I]f this was an act of Islamic terrorism, whether a lone wolf, or perhaps a lot of lone wolves turn out to have connection abroad one way or the other.... But if he was motivated by Islamist jihadist ideology, these talking points are not going to work, it's going to -- Donald Trump, the best moment, I say this with regret, the moment that helped Trump win the nomination was the San Bernardino massacre and his calling for a ban of all Muslims, which is an insane -- bad public policy, undoable, and we shouldn't do it. Having said that, it helped him. And I think we shouldn't kid ourselves. And, frankly, if these are the Democratic talking points here, senseless gun violence, it's not senseless.
It's not senseless. That's right. It's the sense of some people who have a specific ideology of hate and violence. Blaming the guns was the Democrats' instinctive move last December after the San Bernardino massacre, and it was the wrong choice politically. Hillary needs to set herself up as a resolute fighter against terrorism, and I think she will. Obviously, Trump will. It would be stupid to cede that ground to him. But real left-wingers like Katrina Vanden Heuvel — not helping Hillary —  head directly to the their anti-gun safe space.

ADDED: As noted above, what showed on "Meet the Press" for me wasn't the same as the transcript. I'm reading that now. There was a panel with Tom Brokaw, Hugh Hewitt, Amy Walter, and Joy Reid. Tom Brokaw went first and said it didn't matter whether the facts end up showing that the shooting was "connected to some kind of an international group," because, for him, the problem is guns. Hewitt focused on ISIS, but Walter and Reid stuck with the gun theme. When Hewitt said, "ISIS would do this to a hundred million Americans if they could," Reid rejoined: "But so would white nationalists."

371 comments:

1 – 200 of 371   Newer›   Newest»
Rusty said...

It will be a gun control issue. Not a terrorism issue.

MayBee said...

Remember in San Bernardino how we had to hear it was probably work place violence because one of his coworkers said something mean at the party?

MayBee said...

I'm guessing Hillary will focus on the LGBT victims

rhhardin said...

The 2nd generation is the problem, according to Derbyshire. They anti-assimilate.

Mark Caplan said...

The LGBTQ community is sweet on other marginalized groups, such as Muslims. So I agree that the LGBTQ community and CAIR will squeeze together even closer and pin the atrocity on Trump.

David Begley said...

Trump people. Obama and Clinton have failed in protecting us.

Clinton people. It is a horrible incident. Gun control.

rhhardin said...

Forgive me for being so brutal as to go immediately to the effect on presidential politics

It's where I go immediately, or rather by way of what the media's need to air for audience, which then determines the political line.

Terrorism is entertainment.

David Begley said...

Clinton people. Not all Muslims are terrorists. We must protect Muslims from backlash. Diversity is strength.

rhhardin said...

The longer the story plays, the more motive to repeat the attack. The news biz and terrorists have that business arrangement and always have had.

We sell audience to advertisers and you get attention. A win-win.

MayBee said...

And some obscure conservative will say something stupid for the left, Obama, Hillary, and the press to glom onto to make it the bigger lesson.

rhhardin said...

The answer is mandatory bacon consumption at the door.

AprilApple said...

Obama and HIllary want more like this. They want to let this in - esp if there is a chance terrorists will vote D.

AprilApple said...

We must learn to understand why they hate us. Terrorists hate us the same way leftists hate us - support for Israel.

David Begley said...

And don't forget the government of Saudi Arabia funds the US mosques where the radicalism is taught.

All this happens in the "holy" month of Ramadam.

David Begley said...

Will Obama cancel his golf game today?

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Obama would say, if he is consistent: 20 more people just found out that the future does not belong to those who would insult the Prophet Mohammed.

David Begley said...

Hillary's tweet just now.

Desperté con la devastadora noticia de FL. Mientras esperamos más información,mis pensamientos están con los afectados de este horrible acto

Meade said...

"Terrorism is entertainment"

That's enterrortainment.

cubanbob said...

It's like these clowns want Trump elected. Hillary is going to say the usual PC nonsense as if we can jeep ignoring these attacks and Trump will simply say I told you so. Trump will again say we need the border tightened up as there have been people from the Muslim world getting across the southern border and for legal immigration from the Muslim world we need to stop it until we can vett who we are letting in. Then Trump will remind us that Obama's policies are letting these people in and Hillary is a continuation of Obama and that her husband's administration let the 9/11 hijackers in.

Drago said...

Leftist teaching: It's important that the LGBT community do some soul searching to understand what they've done to make the terrorists hate them.

MayBee said...

That we haven't yet heard from Obama says a lot.

Gusty Winds said...

Hillary just tweeted that there "thoughts" were with the victims but offered no prayers.

She's too busy praying her people can come up with some good spin.

They have however responded to ISIS on twitter with, "Delete your account".

mezzrow said...

And it's only June.

Drago said...

And whatever you do, don't slow down the influx of muslims into the US.

That would only mean the terrorists have won.

Diversity is strength.

SteveR said...

Although Clinton, et al will make the standard pleas about diversity, tolerance and gun control, these are well worn arguments that come out every time people are killed in this very familiar circumstance. It probably helps Trump just because Obama is so feckless. But the MSM will work hard to make Hillary look good, on that you can count.

jr565 said...

Trump will surely go after Clinton for refusing to call it radical islam.

madAsHell said...

How much more validation does Trump need?

Gusty Winds said...

I'm going to watch all the Sunday morning talk shows

Thanks Professor. I can't watch their bullshit pontification anymore...

cubanbob said...

Death toll is now fifty with another fifty three wounded.

Purvi Rajani said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madAsHell said...

I wonder if Vegas is running odds on the number of background checks for the month of June.

PB said...

I started to watch Meet the Press but then Tom Brokaw started blathering about too many guns and the epidemic of mass killings. Of course, according to reality using data, mass killings are down significantly over the past 25 years but fewer ones allow media to explode in coverage when they do occur.

He also claimed these things didn't happen when he was coming up. BS. When he was growing up in the 1930s and 1940's, that time experienced a significant increase in mass shootings over prior decades and given the size of the US population has tripled, those killings when he grew up were proportionally greater than have occurred even in the last 20 years.

Tom's not aging well.

David Begley said...

Top iman of Central FL: Call the FBI. VERY nervous. Tough spot for this guy. Praises police.

No one could have predicted this. Like a lightening strike. Me: Could not disagree more. Fully predictable.

Don't rush to judgment. Be sad. Don't sensationalize. Me: The facts alone are sensational. Second only to 9-11.

Wants this to be the "last mass shoutings." We should do something to stop "mass shoutings."

Jack Wayne said...

Nothing to see here. It's just leisure place violence. Move along.

Lyle Smith said...

Imam in Florida just said to focus on mass shootings. Sad.

chickelit said...

Did the killer bellow the usual "Allhu Akbar"?

cubanbob said...

Notice the Imam changes the subject to gun control and other PC crap. Five will get you ten the shooter was affiliated with a Mosque and members of that Mosque knew this guy was a problem but of course said nothing to the authorities.

robother said...

How does a single killer open fire and kill this many people over a long period, with no one able to rush and overpower him, and no one having even one canceled carry weapon? After Columbine, why would anyone assume that a "hostage situation/wait for the police" would have any other result?

The Suicide of the West is becoming quite literal.

David Begley said...

MSNBC now trying to blame the placement and number of exits!

Blame the building.

Michael K said...

Even the LA Times gets it.

" 29-year-old Omar Mateen, "

This is worse than San Bernardino.

Orlando was in the news yesterday with the shooting at the airport.

traditionalguy said...

That horrible bad man Trump that Ryan and Romney cannot stomach is not looking so bad when Omar gets busy.

The Muslims are dancing in
The street, while the Clintons are focus grouping 24/7 on
This bump in
The road.

David Begley said...

It is Triangle Shirtwaist all over again. Nothing to do with Islam.

chickelit said...

I slam, you slam, we all slam Islam!

William said...

We are asked to contemplate how much of Dylan Roof is inside of every white man, especially those white men who are NRA members or who own Confederate flags. In this case we will be asked to contemplate how atypical this shooter is from Muslims and Islamic values.

Earnest Prole said...

My interest in Sunday political shows waned many years ago when I realized I could effortlessly script in advance all commentary from every side, therefore the shows were no longer telling me things I didn’t already know.

Sally327 said...

Marco Rubio calling in to CNN let drop that Mateen worked for a "security company". Don't know if that means being a guard at the mall or one of the independent contractors for the US doing things overseas in places like Afghanistan. He also said that he didn't want to get ahead of the LEOs but that as more came out about this individual the things to talk about would change, something to that effect.

Laslo Spatula said...

If the two poles of the issue are gun control and Muslim extremism wouldn't the center solution simply be to prevent Muslims from having guns?

I am Laslo.

FullMoon said...

Obvious observation: If any participant were armed, this may have been prevented. When guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns...


Another thing, when the news says " injured", that does not mean victim will fully recover and lead normal life. Most likely paralyzed, blinded, brain damaged, or lifetime of medical care.

rhhardin said...

You can't have whatever without hate.

David Begley said...

Laslo

According to Mitt and Hillary, your solution would be "racist."

rhhardin said...

What is to be done about odiousness?

I suggest that spin.

chickelit said...

According to Mitt and Hillary, your solution would be "racist."

Yay Mitt. What does Mitt say? Is he back from his Kreisau Circle Jerk in Utah?

Sally327 said...

Brett Baier on Fox reports that Mateen's Dad has said this has nothing to do with religion and mentioned that his son got really angry when he saw two men kissing on the street in Miami a few months ago. So...not a jihadi, just a garden variety homophobe. I'm not sure there's really a distinction there.

I suppose Hillary can spin it that way, we're not doing enough to combat gay hate. So it doesn't really matter where he was from or what religion or whatever. Plus...gun control.

rhhardin said...

Where do Islamists think the design of the keffiyeh comes from? It's gays. Gays love plaids.

Sally327 said...

Brett Baier also reporting that FBI or some LEO investigated this person in the past but closed the case so there's an opening for Trump if that's true. Better interdiction, get rid of the political correctness that has infected the Obama anti-terrorism effort.

William said...

In last week's issue of the New Yorker there was an article, "Citizen Khan" about a Pakistani immigrant named Zarif Khan and his career in Wyoming as a purveyor of hot tamales. Khan came to this country back in the 1920's. He worked very hard, seven days a week, making and selling hot tamales. He was very thrifty and prudent in his investments. He prospered and made millions. When he was sixty, he went back to Pakistan and married a fifteen year old girl. He returned several times to Pakistan where on one trip he was stabbed to death by his nephew. The will didn't stand up in court, but he disinherited his wife in the will in favor of his sons.......It's a lengthy article. The writer draws attention to the incidents of prejudice that Khan and his family faced in America. Well and good, but, while the writer is willing to draw attention to those American prejudices which made life difficult for the Khans, he is bland and factual about those Pakistani values that made life difficult for his wife and, indeed, impossible for Khan himself.......At a certain level, tolerance becomes a form of prejudice. Maybe we should be shaming Muslim immigrants for those values when ch are antithetical to American life.

holdfast said...

Something was learned from the politics around San Bernardino and the primary season is over, so I suspect that Democrats will not choose to emphasize gun control (unless this turns out to have been a lone mentally ill person).

Well, I guess that depends if one considers being a fundamentalist Muslim a mental illness.

I'm still waiting for a response from "Queers For Palestine" and "Turkeys For Thanksgiving".

In the interim, let's admit tens of thousands of unvetted, culturally incompatible Syrian Rapugees, just to be sure.

walter said...

David Begley said... MSNBC now trying to blame the placement and number of exits!
--
Was Brian Williams there?

hombre said...

Democrats: Guns kill people.

Sane folks: Terrorists kill people.

chickelit said...

@Sally327: Your two comments were refreshingly rational. Thank you!

mccullough said...

Tie it in with Paris and Brussels. Two places with strict gun control and major terrorist killings in last 6 months. Can't stop terrorists from getting guns and crossing borders unless your serious about border enforcement and who you let into country.

The US can't prevent drugs, weapons, or people from coming into this country. We're not a small island like Japan or Great Britain.

Carol said...

That was some nasty tweet that came out of realDonaldTrump's account 5:07 am....I can't believe even Trump would be that stupid. Rogue social media staff? There were a thousand RTs..

Robert Cook said...

"So...not a jihadi, just a garden variety homophobe. I'm not sure there's really a distinction there."

The distinction is there are many red-blooded (Christian and non-Christian) Americans who who share the homophobia, among them a sub-set who share the propensity for expressing their homophobia violently.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Forgive me for being so brutal as to go immediately to the effect on presidential politics, but..."

Because Obama is black you have to ask for forgiveness for following his advice to politicize man-caused disasters?

If a white POTUS were to say you ought to politicize it I doubt you would feel the need to ask forgiveness regardless of timeframe. Because racism.

grackle said...

It will be a gun control issue. Not a terrorism issue.

Really? I’m not understanding why.

How does a single killer open fire and kill this many people over a long period, with no one able to rush and overpower him, and no one having even one canceled carry weapon?

He picks a gun-free zone.

Brett Baier on Fox reports that Mateen's Dad has said this has nothing to do with religion and mentioned that his son got really angry when he saw two men kissing on the street in Miami a few months ago. So...not a jihadi, just a garden variety homophobe. I'm not sure there's really a distinction there.

If they can classify it as a hate crime they think they can ignore the Islamic terrorist angle, or at least downplay the jihadi aspect. But are we surprised that daddy wants to divert the narrative to gay-hate? It was those gay couples kissing in public that made him murder 50 people … sure. If the shooter was a jihadi do we think daddy would admit it?

Michael K said...

"Orlando was in the news yesterday with the shooting at the airport."

No, sorry it was the singer. The airport was Dallas. Hard to keep up with the shootings these days.

Sunday shows more useless than usual. George Will was really awkward trying to get an anti-Trump spin.

Meeeea said...

Gusty at 9:20--that was my first thought upon reading Clinton's tweet. Even Obama managed to add "prayers" (hell, even the Imam did!) to his statement.

Also, if as alleged, if ISIS indeed issued a threat that included 600 civilians across Florida, is that why the entire state is under a State of Emergency? Or is it SOP for such a horrific crime to do this? (IDK.)

cronus titan said...

Not be crass, but this helps Trump. The thrust of his argument is that PC is literally killing Americans (and Westerners more generally). We need to get control of international terrorism and if that means pausing Muslim immigration or hassling mosques with suspected terrorist members so be it. Hillary and Obama have taken the position that guns do all the damage, not people, so their motivation is irrelevant. With each passing incident, their argument weakens and is more reckless and stupid. Advantage Trump.

We need more information, but the news that this clown was on the FBI watch list since 2013 will raise the question of why we do nothing when we have credible evidence of terrorist ties. First, why are non-US citizens still here? Second, why are US citizens not in jail? Those question only help Trump.

Meeeea said...

Re all the gun control talk--unless the suicide vest claim has been debunked, seems US Media is downplaying that he was (or was potentially) wearing an explosive vest. So far, I only see foreign media consistently mentioning this.

walter said...

What is the deal with pics of him in various NYPD garb? Or is this a case of the wrong Omar..

Lyle Smith said...

CNN... worse mass shooting in U.S. history. They are some kind of stupid.

cronus titan said...

@MichaelK George Will embarrassed himself with his ridiculous statements trying to turn it into anti-Trump stupidity. I am no Trumpkin (he is a bloviating gasbag) but every time GOPe types like Will open their mouths (we get it George, you will never invite Trump or the demographic supporting him to the most exquisite Georgetown cocktail parties) one understands why Trump is the nominee.

Lem said...

"Something was learned from the politics around San Bernardino..."

I must have been out that day.

Guildofcannonballs said...

We can't take all the credit for this atrocity, but it wouldn't have happened without our taxes paying for it.

Great for the terrorist for achieving his goals, but he didn't do it alone. He used guns designed and built by others, funded in large part by the military (or a military as it were) paid for by taxes.

The roads he used to get there weren't built by him either.

We did this too, the killer couldn't have possibly done this without us.

rhhardin said...

Actually agree with Obama on this one, the stopped clock twice a day effect, that we can absorb this kind of terrorism easily.

Except the media live on it and people love the entertainment, so it makes a media mess.

Reminder, round numbers, 10,000 people die in the US every day; 100,000 people die in the world every day, with nothing special going on.

shiloh said...

Unfortunately it won't matter what either or their surrogates say as Americans have a short term memory.

There will be many more late-breaking stories between now and the election.

Better question: How will America react? And we already know as first graders were killed at Sandy Hook and not much has changed since then.

Find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground
Mother earth will swallow you, lay your body down

David Begley said...

Lyle Smith

Better way to phrase this: Worst Radical Islam incident since 9-11.

Sally327 said...

Grackle, I can't claim to understand exactly why Mateen's Dad would have us believe that his son was simply a gay-hater and that his hatred wasn't motivated by Islam. I think that to be a jihadi is to be a gay hater, at least professing to be one, whereas one can be homophobic and not be a jihadi. Maybe he thinks there's more understanding for someone who becomes a homicidal maniac because he saw two men kissing than because of anything he was taught in the mosque. If so, I believe Dad is incorrect.

Rep. Adam Schiff on CNN says that LEOs have discovered Mateen pledged allegiance to ISIS. If true, Dad probably needs to rethink his explanations.

mccullough said...

Guns did the damage in Paris. Since guns are banned in France, they had no choice but to confront the problem. There are hundreds of millions of weapons in the US, just as there are 12 million illegal immigrants. They government doesn't have the resources to track even a small percentage of these weapons, much less confiscate them.

Time for everyone to be realistic. There is nothing the government can do to stop this. If it's going to be stopped in the US or anywhere, it will have to be the citizenry to do it.

Robert Cook said...

Why is a crime of violence an act of "Islamic terrorism" just because the perpetrator is Muslim? Are violent acts by Christians acts of "Christian terrorism?" Or violent acts by atheists acts of "atheist terrorism?"

walter said...

Come on Facebook peeps. Get those rainbow overlays/virtue signals back up.
Damn those guns.

Lem said...

I can't help notice the similarity to the Paris attack.

shiloh said...

Indeed, 50 people dead at a nightclub in Orlando so let's discuss the political effects at a smallish blog on the net.

And so it goes ...

Christy said...

Fox News had Rod Wheeler, a former DC homicide cop, telling us that when he visited the club with friends last year every one was patted down at the door until about 2 a.m. Makes it sound like this was a well planned assault.

hombre said...

Cook: "The distinction is there are many red-blooded (Christian and non-Christian) Americans who who share the homophobia, among them a sub-set who share the propensity for expressing their homophobia violently."

Yes, and the concept of jihad and a propensity for terroristic mass murder are deeply ingrained in those "Christian and non-Christian Americans, aren't they, Cook? /sarc.

Dumb ass.

MaxedOutMama said...

Lem - and the threats beforehand.

I am sick at heart, but Paris has come to Orlando, and poliically, we must address this.

I cannot this morning, as sad as I am over this and Grimmie's killing (potentially related), discuss the presidential politics. All I can think of is that the hysteria directed against Milo will increase, because he's saying the obvious and the more obvious it becomes that it is obvious, the more those speaking of it must be shouted down.

There is not going to be a political or media-negotiated meeting of the minds about this. It will be settled by the voters.

chickelit said...

Robert Cook queried...Why is a crime of violence an act of "Islamic terrorism" just because the perpetrator is Muslim? Are violent acts by Christians acts of "Christian terrorism?" Or violent acts by atheists acts of "atheist terrorism?"

Because if Sally327's last sentence in her 10:52 proves true, you will have to rethink your comment, that's why.

chickelit said...

shilho said...Indeed, 50 people dead at a nightclub in Orlando so let's discuss the political effects at a smallish blog on the net.

And so it goes ...


I'm starting to believe that you are a paid shill. You only show here every four years or so, right before major elections.

So it goes, indeed.

R. Chatt said...

Trump's comment about the shooting in the Paris nightclub applies here. Paris has the strictest gun laws. Trump has repeated said if someone had guns pointing in the other direction the slaughter wouldn't have been so bad or might not have happened.

coupe said...

When you empty the insane asylums and let the retards free-range, then some of us are going to have a bad day.

I suspect there are more insane people than illegal immigrants, although illegal immigrants make up some of that population.

walter said...

Supposedly had two closed FBI investigations dating back to 2013. Sure it was nothing.

shiloh said...

"MORE TO COME...."

Althouse, are you getting excited?

Hey, more blog hits!

Terry said...

Obama in the aftermath of the Dylann Roof shooting:

What is also true is that the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, discrimination in almost every institution of our lives — you know, that casts a long shadow. And that's still part of our DNA that's passed on. We're not cured of it. . . . Racism. We are not cured of it. And it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say 'nigger' in public. That's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. It's not just a matter of overt discrimination. Societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened 200-300 years prior.


Do you suppose you will ever hear Obama say that intolerance and hatred are in the DNA of Islam? It is in the nature of liberalism to hate the things you should love love the things you should hate. So you hate your country, and you love the religion that says you should be killed.

Rusty said...

Sally, I don't believe in coincidences. Especially in this instance. The one thing follows the other.

tim in vermont said...

Why is a crime of violence an act of "Islamic terrorism" just because the perpetrator is Muslim? Are violent acts by Christians acts of "Christian terrorism?" Or violent acts by atheists acts of "atheist terrorism?"

Maybe because ISIS warned of a "Florida attack" three days ago.

shiloh said...

"I'm starting to believe that you are a paid shill. You only show here every four years or so, right before major elections."

Every part of your rant is untrue. Which is why you're a valuable member of Althouse 95/5 con echo chamber. Congrats!

hombre said...

shiloh: "Indeed, 50 people dead at a nightclub in Orlando so let's discuss the political effects at a smallish blog on the net. And so it goes ..."

Indeed. Whereas instead we should be at the scene administering first aid to the victims.

tim in vermont said...

"MORE TO COME...."

Althouse, are you getting excited?

Hey, more blog hits!
- Shill-o

Clearly Hillary's supporters do not want to talk about this.

tim in vermont said...

Every part of your rant is untrue. Which is why you're a valuable member of Althouse 95/5 con echo chamber. Congrats! - Shill-o


As opposed to a commenter like yourself who repeats talking points, and not ever a large number of them, over and over and over.

Even the 5 percent liberals don't like your Hillary, you are alone there.

Quaestor said...

Hillary will blame that famously fundamentalist Islamic institution, the National Rifle Association (blessing and peace be upon them).

Trump will openly mourn for the slain, and take every opportunity to remind Americans of Hillary's policy of releasing Gitmo detainees and not policing our borders. Yes, that's right. It's Hillary's policy now. Clinton has never publicly broken with Obama on anything, and Obama has publicly endorsed her candidacy, citing her experience as his SoS as her prime qualification, ergo the Obama Policy is the Clinton Policy.

Hillary will decry the legal availability of guns, and will blame the Pulse attack on the Constitution and its defenders rather than the Religion of Peace. She will demand a gun ban. She will demand new laws. She will not demand rigid enforcement of existing laws. She will make a grave error that Trump can user to further erode her support.

Hillary: Europe is a much more enlightened place than America. We will never be safe until guns are banned like they are in Europe.

Trump: Please explain how Europe's enlightened gun laws failed to prevent the slaughter of the Charlie Hebdo staff and the Paris massacre last November.

Hillary: (SILENCE)

Trump: Wouldn't it be fair to say the weapons used in those terror attacks were brought into France from outside rather than purchased legally as they could be here?

Hillary: Yes.

Trump: Weapons brought across borders that no longer have any controls against potential terrorists or their guns? Porous borders as ours have become under the Clinton policy?

Hillary: It's not my policy.

Trump: So you join my denunciation of Obamas failure to enforce our immigration laws?

Hillary: No...

Trump: Are you saying you agree with the open border policy?

Hillary: I don't agree...

Trump: So which is it? Do you support Obama's policies or not?

Hillary: Terrorists will always find ways to use our freedoms against us...

Trump: Such as our right to keep and bear arms? American have too much freedom, is that it?

Hillary: No! I mean... (coaching fit ensues)

shiloh said...

Actually t in vt, my favorite groupie, this incident probably has a positive effect re: Hillary.

Bruce Hayden said...

How does a single killer open fire and kill this many people over a long period, with no one able to rush and overpower him, and no one having even one canceled carry weapon? After Columbine, why would anyone assume that a "hostage situation/wait for the police" would have any other result?

It is "concealed", not "canceled" carry permits. I expect a spell check problem. In any case, I agree. Another gun free zone mass murder. As I noted, if the number of people legally carrying concealed firearms were proportional last night to the FL number of permit holders, or even those who routinely carry, there would have been a dozen or so armed patrons, who could have, and likely would have, engaged the shooter.

Another thing - my partner asked why the bouncers didn't stop him, as he was apparently obviously heavily armed when he entered. Our answer is that the shooter probably took out the bouncer or bouncers first. We shall see. Those big guys out front are supposed to guard against this sort of thing. Here, their size probably just made them bigger targets.

Why didn't SWAT rush in? Their argument is that they thought that the shooter might have brought in IEDs or the like. Someone said that he was wearing a suicide vest, which implies a bomb. And, they don't want to get their SWAT team blown up. But, then, it was more likely a tactical vest to carry all of the magazines required for this. Be interesting to see how many of the victims were shot by the same (likely FMJ) bullets - because the Geneva Convention (I believe) essentially bans JHP, which are designed not to over-penetrate. Back to the question - the authorities pointed out that they didn't know if he was just holding hostages, or was on a killing spree. If it was a true hostage situation, then time is on the side of the police. Otherwise, it isn't. Still, this is part of the problem with depending on the government to protect you - the police, being rational, very often put their own safety above that of everyone else. Thus, not entering this sort of situation until everything is in place, etc. People may die, but not as many of them will be members of the police union.

Finally, this hopefully will provide some pushback against the claim that everyone, or at least Dem affiliated official grievance groups, can get along if they just try. Not all Muslims, but surely a lot of them, don't play well with their typical victims - gays and women. Back in their native countries, they rape the women (often after quick sham weddings), and brutally murder gays. This, of course, has been air brushed by Obama, leading Dems (like Hillary), and the progressive establishment. No doubt, the shooter died believing that he had done the work of Allah in killing so many filthy sodomites. And, a large number of Muslims around the world would probably agree. If gays want to be safe, they are going to have to start doing it themselves, starting with concealed carry permits, gun safety classes, and moving onto voting Republican, instead of trusting progressive politicians to do it for them.

tim in vermont said...

Sure Shill-o, as long as nobody asks why she thinks that it is good policy to keep invading Muslim countries, which is her history, when she isn't shamelessly sucking up to Goldman Sachs.

shiloh said...

"As opposed to a commenter like yourself who repeats talking points, and not ever a large number of them, over and over and over."

Perfect definition of Althouse 95/5 con echo chamber!

n.n said...

50+ aborted. RIP

tim in vermont said...

95-5 conservative, 99.5 to .5 anti Hillary.

shiloh said...

Someone give t in vt a pacifier. TIA

walter said...

Hillary: No! I mean... (coaching fit ensues)
--
Auto-correct was correct.

LarsPorsena said...

Mateen's Afghan father has said this has nothing to do with religion and mentioned that his son got really angry when he saw two men kissing on the street in Miami a few months ago.

Afghanistan's favorite unacknowledged indoor sport is man love. This excuse is ludicrous.

AprilApple said...

How will the media spin this horrible terrorist slaughter to make Trump look bad and Hillary look like she cares?

hombre said...

Cook: 'Why is a crime of violence an act of "Islamic terrorism" just because the perpetrator is Muslim? Are violent acts by Christians acts of "Christian terrorism?" Or violent acts by atheists acts of "atheist terrorism?"'

Perhaps it's because in recent years 99+% of terrorists acts in the world have been committed by Muslims.

Or perhaps it's because 99+% of mass murders committed by Muslims have been recognised as acts of terrorism.

Or perhaps it's because ISIS, Muslim terrorist organization, reportedly threatened Florida with terrorist attacks within the last week.

I offer this evidence knowing that no evidence is sufficient to overcome Cooks anti-American predilections or his anti-Christian bigotry. Nevertheless, it is evidence.

tim in vermont said...

Someone give t in vt a pacifier. TIA

Sick burn.

What I would like to see you say is one interesting thing, but no matter how I prod, I can see it is not going to happen. Not that you ever showed any signs of any talent for saying interesting things. The perfect Hillary drone.

The other thing I find interesting is that you are the actually a Hillary supporter. I know a lot of Democrats, very few Republicans, in my real life, but I don't know any Hillary supporters, so I was trying to get you to explain why you support her, but I can see that you don't really have any good reasons, nor have you any answers for her obvious disqualifying faults.

Yancey Ward said...

I would guess the nightclub, like many I have been to in the past, had pat-downs at the entrances, so the criticism about no one having a gun to defend themselves needs to be directed at this policy.

walter said...

Lars,
It seems some of these cultures have very peculiar love/hate relationships to homosexuality.

mezzrow said...

Prayers for the lost, the survivors, their families and loved ones, the first responders, and all who had to live this ordeal.

The shooter was a 14-year old American and future Democratic voter on the day of the 9-11 massacre. What was in his heart that day? Does anyone else wonder how many more of these flowers will bloom for Allah?

I will be watching carefully to see what the trimmers will be saying. May God's grace protect you and yours.

Michael K said...

The incident is going to be hard for Hillary voters to explain.

"this incident probably has a positive effect re: Hillary."

Dream on. Florida has lots of concealed carry folks but the club was probably a gun free zone.

The best advice, I suspect, will be to avoid gun free zones until the election.

The guys on the French train did not have guns and still rushed the shooter. It will be interesting to hear the accounts in the next few days.

Original Mike said...

Obama has waived HIPPA laws so doctors can talk to family members.

How can he do that?

Quaestor said...

Auto-correct was correct.

I meant coughing fit, but the unsteady finger betrays, as they say among us iPad dupes.

I must commend Walter for an insight I had not considered. Hillary's famous fits may be exploited to feed her discreet coaching through an encrypted bluetooth receiver. We must watch for that in the debates.

AprilApple said...

Media: Who tweeted the best? That's what counts.

grackle said...

Time for everyone to be realistic. There is nothing the government can do to stop this.

Sure there is – or at least to limit future occurrences. Stop Muslim immigration. We have a lot of Muslims already.

Most Muslims are not terrorists. But a bunch of them are fine with terrorist activity in general, even if they do not take action themselves. So we let in a lot of Muslims, most of who are not terrorists. But a certain percentage of the children of these non-terrorists will “get religion.” The problem here is the religion and its leaders encourage, even mandate violence against non-believers. It doesn’t take a high percentage of jihadi converts to pull off horrific killing sprees. They will not want to murder fellow Muslims so they may pick gun-free zones that are unlikely to have many Muslims in attendance, for example – a crowded gay nightclub.

The Cracker Emcee said...

I bet there are already widespread expressions of approval for this atrocity throughout the Muslim world. I also bet we will never see them quoted or referenced by our MSM. It's sickening. But the victims will merely amplify their victimhood. Fighting back is out of the question.

walter said...

You have to believe Omar's Dad. I mean, it's not like he was throwing patrons off the roof.

Michael K said...

"the criticism about no one having a gun to defend themselves needs to be directed at this policy."

Yes, if you are going to do that, you had better have good security. None of this will help Hillary and her confiscation message,.

coupe said...

Kill all of the insane people and "Make this country great again"

grackle said...

Time for everyone to be realistic. There is nothing the government can do to stop this.

Sure there is – or at least to limit future occurrences. Stop Muslim immigration. We have a lot of Muslims already.

Most Muslims are not terrorists. But a bunch of them are fine with terrorist activity in general, even if they do not take action themselves. So we let in a lot of Muslims, most of who are not terrorists. But a certain percentage of the children of these non-terrorists will “get religion.” The problem here is the religion and its leaders encourage, even mandate violence against non-believers. It doesn’t take a high percentage of jihadi converts to pull off horrific killing sprees. They will not want to murder fellow Muslims so they may pick gun-free zones that are unlikely to have many Muslims in attendance, for example – a crowded gay nightclub.

Michael K said...

"The problem here is the religion and its leaders encourage, even mandate violence against non-believers."

Bingo !

And the Saudis are funding a lot of these radical mosques. Some moderate imams have been driven out by Saudi money.

William said...

I bet if you knew everything about this shooter's background, you would find some homosexual occurrences. Homophobia + homosexuality+ Islam= terrorist.

walter said...

Seems like coupe is angling for some FBI attention himself.

AprilApple said...

@ R Cook: 'Why is a crime of violence an act of "Islamic terrorism" just because the perpetrator is Muslim? Are violent acts by Christians acts of "Christian terrorism?" Or violent acts by atheists acts of "atheist terrorism?"'

Provide for the class a good example of a Christian(s) who committed mass slaughter or head-shopping in the name of Christianity? Circa now.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger grackle said...
Time for everyone to be realistic. There is nothing the government can do to stop this.

Sure there is – or at least to limit future occurrences. Stop Muslim immigration. We have a lot of Muslims already.
----------------------------------------------------------

Stop being sensible you will be called 'racist' even though that tag is nonsensical.

shiloh said...

Trump already has the NRA er second amendment folk on his side. Plus obviously this is not a major political issue which is why gun bills are DOA in congress.

Much like health care, Reps are clueless re: solving the gun problem other than to say everyone should have a gun.

Speaking of Obama ~ current Gallup job approval 54/42. Indeed, compared to Trump everyone looks better! Trump is the perfect foil for every Dem running this Nov.

Thank you Rep primary voters ...

Terry said...

Hillary and the anti-Trump forces in the GOP agree: the only way to stop similar terrorist incidents in the future is to invade a random Muslim country.

walter said...

Yes..those bent on mass murder and suicide are easily stopped by gun control. Just like "gun free" zones protect us.

Yancey Ward said...

Given what is now known about the shooter (and assuming he was indeed alone), this can only help Trump politically, and it isn't wrong to discuss the politics of it. That the shooter seems to have been born in the US won't really change much- his religious affiliation, along with the apparent warnings given over the last few days, trumps that the fact that he was only 2nd generation. If the FBI did, indeed, investigate this individual previously, those details likely only enhance the pain for Clinton. Add in the fact that the nightclub was evidently a gay nightclub, and Clinton is in an even tighter spot if she makes any attempt to deny that this was religiously motivated- the stories of ISIS executing homosexuals is well known already- and the father's claims, even if untrue, only box Clinton in even more.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I haven't been following this on TV, and so have not seen photos of the shooter. Just wondering if Titus, who has a hard-on for "brownie" mass murderers, will consider this one as hot and sexy as Tsarnaev. Oh, wait, this terrorist killed fab gays, not boring fat straights who deserve to die. Well, then it's a tragedy. Titus will blame the GOP.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger shiloh said...
Trump already has the NRA er second amendment folk on his side. Plus obviously this is not a major political issue which is why gun bills are DOA in congress.

Much like health care, Reps are clueless re: solving the gun problem other than to say everyone should have a gun.

-----------------------------------------------

During WWII when V2's were raining down of London and Antwerp killing thousands, I bet you think the people thought it was a rocket problem not a Nazi problem.

walter said...

Gun free zone attire

tim in vermont said...

Still no answer on why Hillary said this then?

Sally327 said...

Juliette Kayyem, CNN commentator and former Obama admin official, has now made the point a couple of times that we have to distinguish between an ISIS directed attack and one that is carried out by someone who is only ISIS inspired and is a "lone wolf".

I guess that's true, as she says, because it matters to law enforcement as to how they approach the investigation, not spending too much time looking for active co-conspirators. But I'm interested to see if either Hillary or Trump say anything about being more proactive about hitting ISIS where it lives. I expect that Hillary will back what Obama's already doing in the ME and have no idea what Trump will say about it, if asked.

Apparently the security company Mateen was working for is a supplier of security to US government buildings. Seems like some kind of lapse in vetting there.

Guildofcannonballs said...

What is needed is an honest conversation on tax control.

Without extremist taxes paying for gun technology and roads and electrical grids, this massacre would not have happened.

Drago said...

Shiloh, much like the muslims celebrating in the middle east this morning, appears particularly giddy.

Unknown said...

The point made by Grackle is the obvious one that, in another context, would be seized on by so-called liberals to instigate an immediate clampdown that makes Trunp's proposal look exceedingly moderate. Environmentalists love the Precautionary Principle - anything that might be dangerous is banned, doesn't matter if it is not always dangerous, an occasional, unpredictable risk is enough.

traditionalguy said...

Mohammed's caravan raider movement using its ISIL Brigade meets Trump's Jacksonian WASP movement in a showdown for all there is. Who will win? Stay tuned.

Meanwhile, Obama and Hillary with their Persian advisors keep up chanting that there is nothing to see. At worst. this is an Israeli false flag operation. The victims are the Peaceful Muslims who are now living in fear of retaliation by that horrible bad man Trump.

Quaestor said...

Robert Cook wrote: Why is a crime of violence an act of "Islamic terrorism" just because the perpetrator is Muslim? Are violent acts by Christians acts of "Christian terrorism?" Or violent acts by atheists acts of "atheist terrorism?"

Is it too much to ask that you think through these sophomoric comments before committing them to our tender mercies?

You've managed to say much more about your own ignorance than anything about any supposed bigotry on the part of persons like myself who routinely denounce religion, Islam in particular. If one could find in the Gospels any injunction to kill the unbelievers one might have one rather rickety leg to stand on, but since there is no such scripture the concept of Christian terrorism contains too many internal contradictions for a logical mind to credit, ergo violent acts by self-professed Christians are rightly seen as deviance since the motivations are external to the Christian scriptures. As for that "atheist terrorism" bullshit of yours the depth of stupidity behind it is breathtaking. Atheist agree on one thing and one thing only: They do not believe in any god. The Greek suffix a means without. Atheism is not a belief. It is the absence of belief. Nor is it an ideology, any more than not collecting stamps is a hobby. The reason that crimes committed by atheists are not called "atheist terrorism" is because intelligent people know what is implied by the words atheist and terrorism.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Blogger Drago said...
Shiloh, much like the muslims celebrating in the middle east this morning, appears particularly giddy.

6/12/16, 11:59 AM

Seems more like hysteria to me. But then he or she or xe always sounds that way.

Yancey Ward said...

"the criticism about no one having a gun to defend themselves needs to be directed at this policy."

Yes, if you are going to do that, you had better have good security. None of this will help Hillary and her confiscation message.


Michael K.,

Most of the nightclubs I have been too don't have the kind of security that could stopped the shooter's entrance last night. Even if the security at the entrances have weapons, they are exposed to blitz attacks. There are, generally, no physical barriers that can be shut at quick notice. In any case, the pat downs and other procedures aren't designed to prevent the kind of attack last night or last November in Paris- they are designed to prevent arguments inside the clubs from escalating to shootings. They do that pretty effectively but, of course, this makes the people inside sitting ducks. It is a trade off, and I don't know which side of the trade off is costing more lives.

I know this, however, I wouldn't feel as comfortable in an enclosed public area as I would have a year ago.

shiloh said...

LarsPorsena, a historical non-sequitur. Creative deflection indeed.

Michael K said...

"I wouldn't feel as comfortable in an enclosed public area as I would have a year ago."

Yup. especially with a target group like gays.

I don't know the solution. We watched the movie, "Collateral" last night. It has a big nightclub scene. Pretty good movie but violent.

Michael K said...

"Seems like some kind of lapse in vetting there."

In an administration that bars employers from inquiring into past actions of felons ?

Surely you jest, sir.

shiloh said...

I'm always giddy when discussing Trump. Mass shootings, not so much.

But Althouse and her con bloggers have the why's and wherefore's of mass shootings down to an exact science, so not to worry.

mikee said...

I'm waiting 72 hours before reading anything about this attack, as the story usually changes a lot before the actual facts come out.

As to the title of the post, Obama & Hillary will use this attack to attempt further infringement on the 2nd Amendment, and probably the 1st, as well. It is who they are, it is what they do. I would expect nothing different.

Drago said...

Its also apparent that Shiloh finds it disconcerting in the extreme that non-leftists have the temerity to post online.

Not surprising when one considers how the left disallows contradictory viewpoints everywhere they hold sway.

Perhaps a safe space is in order.

Tragically, there were no real safe spaces available to those murdered by a member of the lefts only protected religious order.

Michael K said...

"Homophobia + homosexuality+ Islam= terrorist."

I assume you are aware of the cultural issues in Islam where young men have no access to women and there is rampant homosexuality that is subject to fierce punishment. Homosexual rage is probably a factor in a lot of anti-gay violence in Islam.

The British troops in Afghanistan complained about young Afghan men wearing lipstick and female clothing and trying to have sexual relations with them. I think it was hushed up pretty quickly but it is well known and unsaid in the middle east.

Typically, the shooter seems to come from a prosperous family. The Democrats talk about poverty and no jobs as an incentive to terrorism but that is not true. This is cultural rage by Muslim educated men.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Blogger robother said...
How does a single killer open fire and kill this many people over a long period, with no one able to rush and overpower him, and no one having even one canceled carry weapon?

Walk into any club, gay or straight, at 2 am and a pretty high percentage of those present will be drunk or tipsy. Imagine trying to formulate a response to a killer when you're 3 sheets to the wind. That's one more reason why clubs make perfect targets for mass shootings: they're not only enclosed, crowded spaces, but a significant number of those present will have minds and reflexes slowed by alcohol.

Indeed, Muslim fanatics must really take satisfaction from murdering, not only infidels, but drunken, fornicating ones. And during Ramadan - why, give this guy a gold-plated express ticket to Muslim heaven.

Meeeea said...

Comment from another site:
"in the area with police contacts called my partner and I this morning to let us know that the inside intelligence is that this is the first of many planned terrorist attacks around the US, with more planned on gay related establishments. Further, he was NOT a lone wolf acting independently. Already seeing BS on the news about the need for more gun control, gun control is not the issue, Islamic terrorism is."

Drago said...

According to news reports, the shooter was a registered democrat, just like shiloh.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Blogger Drago said...
According to news reports, the shooter was a registered democrat, just like shiloh.

6/12/16, 12:19 PM

Why are democrats so violent and intolerant?

Terry said...

The FBI must have a list somewhere of individual Muslims in the US who have become radicalized. I mean Muslims who have taken pro-terrorist actions, like giving material support to Islamic terrorists or who have communicated their desire to make common cause with ISIS.
I think that that list is terrifyingly long.

Drago said...

One can only imagine the pleasure it brings to islamic terrorists when they are told that history is on their side and then, like clockwork, after islamist murder westerners, the lefties immediately leap up to excuse and defend the islamists all the while increasing rhetorical attacks on those who oppose these radicals.

All of which completely validates radical islamist teachings.

Drago said...

Now would be a good time to redouble our efforts to locate Christian bakers who do not wish to bake cakes for gay weddings.

You know, just to refocus everyone on what the "real threat".

walter said...

CAGW made him do it...

Original Mike said...

Watched NBC for an hour. They fell all over themselves not to talk about Isalmic terrorism.

Michael K said...

"I think that that list is terrifyingly long."

I think it might be in the same file as Hillary;s security violations.

The next Muslim attack is going to be horrendous and they will compete to see who can get a bigger victim number.

Meeeea said...

"6/12/16, 12:19 PM Why are democrats so violent and intolerant?"

He is a Dem, and according to The Independent the terrorist was a wife-beating, divorced, security guard, AND he had a concealed carry permit.

If true, that concealed carry thing is going to blow a lot of Dem's narratives today.

Bob Boyd said...

"Authorities in Santa Monica found possible explosives as well as assault rifles and ammunition Sunday in the car of a man who told them he was in town for the L.A. Pride festival in West Hollywood, a law enforcement source said."


http://www.latimes.com/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

JAORE said...

A Venn diagram with homophobes(large circle)and radical Muslims (small circle) the Muslim circle would be entirely contained within the larger.

So Pappy's explanation doesn't do much to move the needle for me.

walter said...

It's not the heat, it's the perfidity.

Drago said...

It will be a long hot summer and the paid spinners of the left really should demand a higher hourly wage.

Plus health benefits.

walter said...

I await Laslo's transcription of the last conversation between Omar and his Dad.

Drago said...

I await Laslos transcription of the "one-way conversation"(for obvious reasons) between the next islamic murderer who commits his acts while being serviced by Titus.

Terry said...


Michael K said...
The next Muslim attack is going to be horrendous and they will compete to see who can get a bigger victim number.

This is why it is stupid to compare terrorist attacks to things like automobile accidents or natural disasters. Automobiles and nature don't learn from their mistakes and try to kill more people next time. Automobiles and nature don't have a political agenda. Liberals understand this very well when the perpetrator is a guy who shoots up an abortion clinic or murders an abortionist, or a white supremacist kills Black churchgoers. In those cases, the act of murder is full of significance. Only when Muslims scream 'God is Great!' while they kill people does murder become as random as a cyclone tearing up a trailer park.

shiloh said...

"don't have a political agenda"

Thank goodness Republicans don't have any political agendas!

Zach said...

As far as the Gun Free Zone is concerned: guns in a nightclub are a bad idea, and you should stay away from any club where people are armed.

Sex, drugs, and alcohol at 2:00 AM are a combustible mix, and things can turn ugly for stupid reasons. Remember, the goal isn't to win these fights, it's to avoid being in them.

Terry said...

Blogger Drago said...
It will be a long hot summer and the paid spinners of the left really should demand a higher hourly wage.
Plus health benefits.

Q: Why don't billionaire Lefties pay their people better and give them health insurance?
A: Conservative trickle-down economics!

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Terry said...

Blogger shiloh said...
"don't have a political agenda"

Thank goodness Republicans don't have any political agendas!

Give it a rest, Shiloh. You aren't even making sense. By definition a political party has a political agenda.

n.n said...

The right to self-defense will be infringed.

Anyway, male transgender/homosexual behavior and normalized prostitution are a progressive condition in societies with abortion rites (and other dysfunctional behaviors), especially in sex-selective societies (i.e. pro-choice) that disfavor the female sex.

In America, the problem is a State-established Pro-choice cult that denigrates individual dignity and debases human life through selective exclusion of individuals and associations based on politically/socially opportunistic criteria, selective-child policy that engenders evolutionary dysfunction ("Dodo Dynasty"), reproductive prostitution (e.g. single parent, couplet guardians, womb banks, sperm depositors), and anti-native policies that have exploited excessive and illegal immigration for Democrat leverage, Posterity replacement, and disenfranchisement.

The elective abortion of 50 human lives is a tragedy. When wholly innocent, doubly so. RIP

Zach said...

And don't say that the gun owners just need to be responsible. Nightclubs are not about being responsible. Leave the gun and the car at home when you're planning to get wasted.

buwaya puti said...

On a tangential but not unrelated matter -
This is what a new American civil war will look like, should it come to pass. It wont be a matter of ambushing military units, but of massacres or intimidation of the other sides civilians, who cannot be protected. It will be much like Iraqs suicide bomber campaign vs Shiites. The difference will be in numbers and weapons.
Suicide bombing is not something culturally compatible here, but shooting people certainly is. Bombs and efficient explosives are also more difficult to come by.
There are many millions of "assault rifles" out there, besides truly enormous numbers of magazine-fed shotguns and more pistols of all kinds than anyone can know. These "assault rifles" though not, strictly speaking, identical to military weapons, are nearly ideal for mass murder, more so than full-automatic weapons. And even if they are banned there is no way any substantial number can be confiscated. And even then there will still be @30 million pump shotguns.
The people who are imposing on the traditional US population, who own most of these weapons, are playing with fire.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"in the area with police contacts called my partner and I this morning to let us know that the inside intelligence is that this is the first of many planned terrorist attacks around the US, with more planned on gay related establishments. "

My first reaction was: that is absolutely the stupidest thing the terrorists could possibly do, particularly before a presidential election. One of the Dem's favored victim groups attacking another is a colossal mistake, or so I thought. The smart thing would be to forego terrorist attacks altogether until after Hillary is elected, or, at the very least, to chose targets that liberals don't give a shit about. Few leftists would shed tears if terrorists shot up a church full of Baptists or a Christian bakery. In fact, there would be a lot of gloating and happiness. Those filthy homophobes would be getting exactly what they deserve.

So shooting up a gay bar seems incredibly boneheaded, but then it occurred to me that that just shows how confident Muslim terrorists have become that the media and government will never, ever blame them for anything. They could behead 100 gays in the Castro district on national TV and throw 100 more off a roof and the usual appeasers would find a way to blame Trump, the GOP, and America's "culture of violence" while fretting about backlash against Muslims.

They are not stupid. They know Western culture has become suicidal and absolutely determined not to see the obvious.

walter said...

Zach, tell it to the friends and families of the 50ish dead.

buwaya puti said...

The Muslim terrorists arent interested so much in the effect on US domestic politics, or even foreign policy. What they seem to care the most about is encouraging their Muslim partisans and recruiting more of them. This attack is a great victory for them, just like 9/11. It is propaganda of the deed.

David Begley said...

MSNBC reports that Obama did cancel his scheduled golf game. Also speculates that Obama will be really upset because Malia graduated from HS on Saturday.

MSNBC continues to blame the gun and the magazine.

David Begley said...

Brett Baer and Catherine Herridge are so, so good. Calm and they pass the relevant info.

JAORE said...

""Authorities in Santa Monica found possible explosives as well as assault rifles and ammunition Sunday in the car of a man who told them he was in town for the L.A. Pride festival in West Hollywood, a law enforcement source said."

No name given. I've got money on Sven Ingersol.

Meeeea said...

"So shooting up a gay bar seems incredibly boneheaded, but then it occurred to me that that just shows how confident Muslim terrorists have become that the media and government will never, ever blame them for anything. They could behead 100 gays in the Castro district on national TV and throw 100 more off a roof and the usual appeasers would find a way to blame Trump, the GOP, and America's "culture of violence" while fretting about backlash against Muslims."

OTOH, it provides a convienent way for the HRC to co-opt some of Trump's anti-terrorist thunder as it provides a meaningful way for her to try and appeal to more voters while retaining her base.

Terry said...

The important thing that Hillary and Obama need to communicate is that this tragic shooting demonstrates the need for senate Republicans to approve the appointment of Merrick Garland to the supreme court. Indeed, not confirming Garland led directly to the Orlando violence. Mitch McConnell has blood on his hands. Also Limbaugh, and probably Bill O'Reilly as well. And Sean Hannity. And Ann Coulter.
Citizens United delenda est!
Success in politics all about staying on message.

Quaestor said...

shiloh wrote: I'm always giddy when discussing Trump. Mass shootings, not so much.

Delete all after giddy...

One may freely substitute dizzy, lightheaded, faint, weak, vertiginous, unsteady, shaky, and wobbly. All describe our shiloh to a tee.

Original Mike said...

"This is an act of terrorism".

Obama gets a clue!

Original Mike said...

Of course, he doesn't say what kind of terrorism.

Michael K said...

" Leave the gun and the car at home when you're planning to get wasted."

Even better is to stay home when you plan to get wasted.

Clubs and other big gay gatherings, like the West Hollywood Gay Pride Parade, might be good places to stay away from.

However, moths to the flame.

Like ISIS and their massacres in Syria, the Muslims will compete in outrageous actions. This will not be the last ones, especially if the FBI keeps being inhibited by "Islamophobia" hysteria.

Peggy Coffey said...

Don't let Muslims buy guns. The best type of gun control.

David Begley said...

Obama's remarks.

This is an act of terror and hate. It is early. (me: he can't say Islam.)

We will send resources.

Grateful to police.

Shout out to LGBTQ community. Not just a nightclub. Hate.

The most deadly shooting in American history. We need gun control.

He is getting emotional about the victims. Getting down into the pathos, drama and emotion.

May God bless us.

Really, really pathetic address.

Jack Wayne said...

That was very likely one of the coldest statements ever given by a Preseident about the loss of American lives in a terrorist attack. Democrat voters will be proud.

walter said...

Wasted no time to inject gun control. Go Barry!

walter said...

By the way Zach, the incidents you speak of are much more likely in certain types of clubs. Do the math. Club owners do as they shut down.

Original Mike said...

Yeah, I jumped the gun. I wanted to believe that he had evolved. Obama is still morally reprehensible on this issue.

Blue Devils Democrat said...

I think Hillary Clinton seem to have a weight/size issue. As an image consultant trainee, I suggest she pick color of clothes carefully. Trump also has weight/size problem, but he is going to loose spectacularly.

Terry said...

I wonder what Obama would say if a Muslim terrorist shot up the congregation at a historically Black church?

Of course he would say it was the fault of the NRA and Senate Republicans for blocking the confirmation of Merrick Garland!
If only Citizens United had been correctly decided this never would have happened.

shiloh said...

Terry, was being sarcastic as you're a fuckin' idiot!

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