June 27, 2016

"Crowd sees any signs of 'Nazis' and they run&attack."

"A lot of people bleeding/getting maced" says the tweet, with video.

And the NYT tells us the "left-wing, anarchist types" were "protesting" "the nationalist group, the Traditionalist Worker Party."
Videos posted on Twitter showed members of the nationalist group, the Traditionalist Worker Party, which had obtained a permit to demonstrate, brawling on the Capitol grounds with protesters who were dressed in black and concealed by face coverings....

In videos published online, people could be seen punching, kicking and swinging sticks at one another amid screams of “racists” and “Nazis.” At one point, police officers in riot gear intervened as several people kicked a person on the ground. At another, people dressed in black became physically confrontational with a news crew, ordering it to leave.
I'm wondering how this would have been reported if the left/right orientation were flipped. One group, with a permit, was engaging in expression and the other group, in scary matching garb and masks and wielding clubs, suddenly ran at them and unleashed violence on them. And in the news report, it's "people" all more or less doing the same thing.

86 comments:

Michael McClain said...

why are the LibCong so violent?

Laslo Spatula said...

I hate it when they make me root for Nazis.

I am Laslo.

MaxedOutMama said...

Who are behaving like Nazis and fascists? The "bullyboy" campaign is not making me feel like Trump is the real threat to civil order.

AJ Lynch said...

You are very smart Professor so I wonder why you are wondering?

Michael K said...

Nazis are always goof for the middle aged Jewish female Times readers. It gets their blood stirred up in the morning.

Michael K said...

"Good" !

Laslo Spatula said...

"And in the news report, it's "people" all more or less doing the same thing."

In the end, rape is just people having sex.

More or less.

I am Laslo.

Patrick said...

Of course it would be reported differently. Its very hard to sympathize with Nazis, which is exactly what they were counting on.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

I'm wondering how this would have been reported if the left/right orientation were flipped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_massacre

Jake said...

The video at the link is pretty sickening. The man that is clearly already concussed that begins to stand only to be pot-shotted to the skull from behind with a wooden club could easily have been killed and very likely suffered a severe traumatic brain injury. Where were the police to arrest these people interfering with a lawful, permitted gathering? Why are the only quotes from the Fire Squad?

To answer your question, you know damn well how this story would have been different if the tables were flipped. That, too, is sickening.

mezzrow said...

1957? Birmingham?

Everything old is new again. Diversity.

damikesc said...

I remember those days when Progs would defend a Nazi's right to protest.

Now that they feel they have control, they aren't quite so fond of those pesky protections.

The Left has ZERO qualms with resorting to violence. I feel for them when the Right gets to that point.

tim in vermont said...

"Nothing worse than Illinois Nazis!"

But brownshirts for the left come pretty close.

tim in vermont said...

The voters have been getting insolent lately so this kind of corrective action is called for.

Wilbur said...

I notice the lefty trolls avoid these sort of posts like the plague.

virgil xenophon said...

damikesc/

The Left has ALWAYS had zero qualms about resorting to violence.

jacksonjay said...

If it's OK with Michael K, I'd like to quote our charming President with the great smile.


"My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks," the president told them. (bankers)

“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies...

I need you to go out and talk to your friends, talk to your neighbors...I want you to argue with them, get in their faces..

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”

rhhardin said...

They report what the readers want to read. News is a business.

Fernandinande said...

"They arrived wearing plastic shields and carrying wooden batons. They got physical with reporters that had come to cover the white nationalist[sic] rally."

Michael McClain said...
why are the LibCong so violent?


"The Nazis are dangerous, and that's why we need to take them on directly," a bandage-wearing Felarca told reporters. "Take them on head-on."

Fernandinande said...

The NYT censored the fact that the attackers were from "By Any Means Necessary (BAMN)", an anti-white, anti-Asian racist group.

mpeirce said...

"Well that's what you get for messing with the Black Bloc," a protester said.

Free speech? Get over it.

MadisonMan said...

Nazis have rights too. I wonder why the attackers ignore that.

traditionalguy said...

We need a little muscle over here, say the unknown group organizers. The presumption is that corrupt leftist police will turn their backs on righteous violence that supports righteous power.

And, by the way, the unknown organizers also demand to disarm the rest of us ASAP. Survival of the fittest now means survival of the armed.

Sebastian said...

I wonder why I wonder why I wonder why you wonder.

Brando said...

That's the problem with those who can justify violence if it's used on the "right" kind of people--the sorts who thought Black Panther violence was okay in the '60s because the system was so racist, or that react with glee when people beat up Klansmen. Ultimately they're rooting for the upending of civilized society, where even fighting the nastiest ideologies or greatest injustices is still done with arguments and not thuggery.

Today it's these "Nazis", who's to say tomorrow it won't be all political opposition? It's not like thugs tend to be restrained and limited.

chrisnavin.com said...

Living in Seattle, I see the downstream valorizarion of anyone 'counter-cultural,' which includes anarchists and such (hence the WTO protests).

If some of the most senior and mature bodies around you are not-so-secretly sympathetic to anything anti-establishment...

Heaven forbid you defend the right of all people to peaceably assemble and be free from violence...kind of like free speech...even if you loathe their views...supporting law and order against such violence?

Nope...

Chuck said...

OF COURSE; if "right" and "left" were flipped in the context of peaceful neo-fascist demonstrators being mercilessly attacked by far-left counter-demonstrators, the national media would freak out.

National Public Radio would go into 24/7 coverage mode. There would be live broadcasts of all of the network anchors from the scene, for a week. We'd be hearing touching personal stories of the victims of the violence.

And the linked article would not have appeared on page A11 of the Times. It would have been on Page One, possibly above the fold, and the Times editorial pages would be filled with commentary on the outrage and the grave national emergency.

Most of us, I think, agree with that general observation.

Now; I am curious how Donald Trump adds to "our" side of this debate. Do we win with a brutish campaign against political correctness? Or do we win with careful counter-journalism?

Ann Althouse said...

"You are very smart Professor so I wonder why you are wondering?"

I wonder why you wonder over the idiomatic use of the word wonder?

Texas Annie said...

Maybe I read it wrong, are you calling neo-nazis the right?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

According to CNN, this was Trump's fault.

Michael said...

Simple. Nazis bad. People good. People, progressive people especially, should and do attack Nazis because Nazis are bad. Very bad. Thus the HitlerTrump meme is a lure for the people who would do what any good person would do if given the chance and that is kill Hitler. Simple. Good. Evil.

Achilles said...

July 18-21. "Counter-protest." Sounds like a party.

Char Char Binks said...

How do we know the TWP are Nazis, racists, or Fascists? Because masked crybullies say so? We never even got to hear them speak. I'm sick of these ANTIFA Fascisti in their camicie nere and the SPLC who get to decide who is racist and who is protected, and who gets to speak and who has to shut up or be bludgeoned.

BDNYC said...

It's funny how people say Nazis are "right wing." Maybe true in countries where the Left and Right are both for big government, just for different purposes, but not here in America. Nazism, Fascism, Corporatism and Progressivism are all offshoots of a single political philosophy. Nazis are left wingers that happen to be nationalistic, racist, militaristic and authoritarian.

James Pawlak said...

It is the duty of the police to protect those peacefully/lawfully exercising their constitutional right---By any level of force needed to do so. If the police will not do so, the attached constitutional-speakers are allowed to do so---Ann to use deadly force in defense against any attack which they determine is a "clear and present danger of death or great bodily injury" (As represented by club using Fascists.).

Todd said...

Isn't this actually "some lefties" attacking "other lefties"? I mean really? Instead of reporting that a "raciest lefty group attacks another raciest lefty group", it ALWAYS has to be framed as "the evil right" being somehow involved.

I still don't agree that the Nazis should have been attached as they have a right to speech just like everyone else and the counter to speech you don't agree with is more speech, not clubs...

eric said...

Shut up! They explained.

CWJ said...

The text of Althouse's post sounded like classic European street violence. I was actually shocked when I clicked through to discover it had happened here.

Also, I'm with char char bunks on this one. Maybe they are, maybe they're not, but the article itself provided no evidence that this group was or sympathized with Nazism.

Rusty said...

damikesc said...
I remember those days when Progs would defend a Nazi's right to protest.

One of the last times the Nazi party wanted to hold a rally in Skokie the city refused the permit. The Nazis looked for representation in court. The ACLU refused to take the case. This so outraged an ACLU attorney that he quit the ACLU to represent the Nazis. He was black.
The ACLU is useless if it can't protect ALL speech.

Unknown said...

White supremacists, neo Nazi's are extremists, so are anarchists. Extremists act in extreme ways. The head of this particular white supremacist group, the Traditionalist Worker Party, Matthew Heimbach was the same guy yelling and shoving a black female protestor in a Trump rally.

Neo-Nazis at Trump rally caught on video roughing up black woman: ‘You’re scum, your time will come!’

link

Unknown said...

"I remember those days when Progs would defend a Nazi's right to protest."

Did Heimbach defend the black woman's right to protest in the Trump rally? Interesting that there was no mention that this group supports Trump.

Amadeus 48 said...

"I'm wondering how this would have been reported if the left/right orientation were flipped."

Alternative formulation: "One hardly needs to wonder how this would have been reported if the left/right orientation were flipped."

Professor, thanks for reading the NYT so I don't have to.

coupe said...

The Nazi punks all looked like sissy's...

I watched as one fat girl in a bandanna whooped this skinhead looking punks ass. I thought to myself, where did they find these Nazi's? ...at the arcades?

Otto said...

Comments on comments
1) "Godwinism" is finally being recognized for the false construct that it is. It held sway for over a half century.
2) The "wondering" subject is hilarious. Ann is being chided for her naivite. She rejoins by showing us how smart she is.
You have to understand that the NYT and Playboy were the bible in Ann's upbringing, so it is hard for her to blatantly say that the NYT is a biased paper( rag). Plus that would not go well with her fellow professors.

Unknown said...

https://itsgoingdown.org/the-new-neo-nazis-how-matthew-heimbach-is-building-a-racist-network-across-the-us/

THE NEW NEO-NAZIS: HOW MATTHEW HEIMBACH IS BUILDING A RACIST NETWORK ACROSS THE US

"The best form of government, I would say, at least in the interim, would be some form of fascist government.” – Matthew Heimbach, 2014

Unknown said...

When Matthew Heimbach takes the stage, he always has a smile on his face, generally his shirt is tucked in or he wears a motorcycle-club like vest, and he starts his talks not with cries of “ZEEK HAIL!,” but instead by telling you a little bit about himself. In an articulate and confident voice, Heimbach discusses how he came from a small Maryland town “without a traffic light,” into the big city to attend college. But quickly his discussion treads into waters commonly discussed in white nationalist and fascist circles: notions of a large-scale Jewish conspiracy, the extinction of a ‘white race,’ and the need for a revolutionary group to create an all white State.

Heimbach has clear links to white-power groups, but he represents a new breed of white nationalist that is different from the Klan, racist militia movement, and the Neo-Nazi skinheads that have dominated the racist Right for the last several decades. Although Heimbach is only in his mid-20s, he has become a leading light in the white racist scene which has grown under Obama’s presidency and the continuing economic crisis.

"We need to be getting away from symbols, like the American Flag. This is the symbol of our occupation, this is the symbol of our genocide, this is the symbol of the nation, that has already said that they will use drones to drop missiles on political dissidents. Do any of us think, sitting in this room, we’re not considered political dissidents?… We are at war with this system, and if you think for two seconds that George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan would be friendlier to us than Barack Obama is then you have not been reading your history."

Unknown said...

Meet the new wave of extremists gearing up for the 2016 elections.

The Cracker Unknown said...

A couple more times and it will be guns-out. Although the Left is very careful where they try this stuff. In my part of the world Anarchists pretty much confine themselves to tagging and dining-and-dashing.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

And the NYT tells us the "left-wing, anarchist types" were "protesting" "the nationalist group, the Traditionalist Worker Party."

Has the NYT described BAMN as an anarchist group in the past? Or are they just using the phrase left-wing, anarchist types to try to distance the violence from the Democratic party mainstream?

Fernandinande said...

Unknown said...
Meet the new wave of extremists gearing up for the 2016 elections.


Quite predictably the Silly Peoples Law Center omitted BAMN, the violent racist terrorists in this thread.

n.n said...

The communists and socialists are ideological competitors. There can only be one on the left-wing justice scale. This is why the American left adopted a pro-choice religious/moral philosophy in order to avoid reconciling diametrically conflicted factions. They are allies of convenience until they engage in mass abortions.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

A quick look at BAMN's web site confirms that they are not anarchist types, they are big-government types. And this was not just a lone BAMN member who happened to join a counter-protest: the counter-protest ( read riot ) was organized by BAMN.

JAORE said...

'Tis a puzzle, Ann. Do you think it will ever be solved?

Pushing, shouting, shoving and clubbing will continue until retaliation is the order of the day.

Then.... all will be clear.

EMD said...

"became violent"

More passive voice. Great job, journalists.

The Godfather said...

If these guys are Nazis, then why aren't the Occupy people and the BLMers Nazis? I'd call them Commies, but that's SO non-PC.

EDH said...

Traditionalist Worker Party.

Confirming suspicions that they really hate tradition... and work.

Larvell said...

"I'm wondering how this would have been reported if the left/right orientation were flipped."

That's so cute.

eric said...

Larry Elder, a radio show host in California, shared some interesting emails today on his twitter feed. These were BLM emails that had been hacked.

In effect, they are coordinating with the Attorney General in order to form a "summer of violence".

Now, they claim in the emails they are working with the AG, but the emails aren't too or from the AG. In them, they say they will bring thousands to disrupt the Republican and Democrat conventions.

They appear to be Bernie supporters.

They claim if they cause enough violence this summer, Obama will be able to declare martial law and cancel the election.

How much of this is wishful thinking and how much of this is true?

eric said...

Oh, and my point was, this is the purpose of the violence. Not that these guys were BLM, but surely they are all Bernie supporters and on he same team.

damikesc said...

Now; I am curious how Donald Trump adds to "our" side of this debate. Do we win with a brutish campaign against political correctness? Or do we win with careful counter-journalism?

Fucking Hell Chuck, does EVERY FUCKING POST HERE HAVE TO BE DERAILED BY YOU INTO AN ATTACK ON TRUMP.

Trump had NOTHING to do with this, and this is your fucking obsession.

Jesus, you're a tedious bore who has little worth reading ever.

tim in vermont said...

Interesting that there was no mention that this group supports Trump.

Was there any mention that the people wearing the masks and beating up the peaceful demonstrators with bats support Hillary?

tim in vermont said...

Chuck is obsessed with getting Hillary elected, since she is much closer to his ideal.

damikesc said...

I'm not even a Trump guy and I am getting tired if every bad thing leading to a slam of him.

Birkel said...

This is the inevitable end of progressivism.

Is it odd that Leftists never quite think the slope is as slippery as it proves to be?

This is what you voted for, Althouse.

buwaya said...

"Or do we win with careful counter-journalism"

There is no such thing. Or no such thing that matters to enough people to have any utility.

Fernandinande said...

No “Free Speech” for Fascists!

• SMASH FASCISM![unintentional irony alert] NO PLATFORM FOR ORGANIZING RACIST VIOLENCE, MURDER, AND GENOCIDE!

• No Racist Demagogy![unintentional irony alert] No Anti-Muslim Bigotry! No National Chauvinism, Fear Mongering, or Immigrant Scapegoating!

• Latina/o, Black, Native American, Arab, Asian, and White, Immigrants With and Without Papers, We are ALL Californians! [not me]

• Open the Borders! Full Citizenship Rights for All Undocumented Immigrants, Refugees, and Asylum-Seekers Now! [for all 2 billion people who want to invade]

• Build the New Independent, Integrated, Mass Militant Youth-Led Civil Rights and Immigrant Rights Movement!

Rusty said...

Unknown

You understand that whatever they espouse is protected, right? You understand that physically stopping them from speaking is criminal, right?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Chuck said...

Or do we win with careful counter-journalism?

If counter-journalism is similar to this counter-protest then you might be on to something...

Fernandinande said...

damikesc said...
Fucking Hell Chuck, does EVERY FUCKING POST HERE HAVE TO BE DERAILED BY YOU


No, just TRY THIS ONE WEIRD TRICK! Don't respond to his posts.

damikesc said...

Is it odd that Leftists never quite think the slope is as slippery as it proves to be?

Also odd how many of their "Stupid" critics seem to get what they're doing far more quickly than the "brilliant" people attacking the critics for being stupid.

Rae said...

Socialist on Socialist violence. Who am I supposed to root for here?

tim in vermont said...

Also odd how many of their "Stupid" critics seem to get what they're doing far more quickly than the "brilliant" people attacking the critics for being stupid.

Every time there is a leak, like Climategate, which, had they not owned up to the emails, could have been written by their skeptical critics, or the DNC papers, which surprised absolutely no-one, not even the Bernie supporters who bore the brunt of the DNC actions, nor certainly not the cynical Hillary supporters. But the least surprised of all were the DNC's conservative critics.

Brando said...

"It's funny how people say Nazis are "right wing." Maybe true in countries where the Left and Right are both for big government, just for different purposes, but not here in America. Nazism, Fascism, Corporatism and Progressivism are all offshoots of a single political philosophy. Nazis are left wingers that happen to be nationalistic, racist, militaristic and authoritarian."

I think that's a part of it--in Europe, traditionally the "right" meant pro-monarchical institutions, and pro-church which were usually allied, while "left" meant republics and democratic enlightenment thinking. So the Nazis who were at least initially allied with the pro-royalist "conservatives" of Germany were considered "right" (and their battles with communists were seen as ideological rather than two totalitarian factions battling for a different form of evil.

Here in the U.S., "racism" somehow got considered a mindset of the "right"--segregationists (even when they were Democratic New Dealers), Klansmen, and anti-immigrationists (even when these were labor unionists) got lumped in as "right wing". But it's an odd fit with the pro-free market, pro-international trade libertarianism that is also considered "right wing".

A better way to cleave this is "collectivist/statist" vs. "libertarian"--how one sees government's role in addressing problems as well as what exactly constitutes a problem. It's not a perfect divide, but it's better than the current way of treating different factions that seek to control the people and the markets as though they are not just statists of a different sort. And bigotry is no fit for those who would like to be left alone, and leave others alone.

Jonathan Graehl said...

Mostly I'm curious if any of the perps will be prosecuted. If not, this makes me suspicious of leftist city governments who apparently will side with anti-fa thugs (as we saw in San Jose and Chicago).

There was a similar anti-KKK-rally mob violence outbreak in Anaheim a few months ago. I assume the same disgusting sort of glory-seeking brownshirts were behind both instances of organized political violence.

Jonathan Graehl said...

Obviously I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories that would pit america against its very productive + mutually beneficial jews. But these people are entitled to peaceful public assembly. Since the people living in California are apparently so rotten and entitled and criminal that they attack unprovoked with clubs and knives, this means they're entitled to real police protection.

Tantor said...

National Socialists are not creatures of the right. The "socialist" in their name is a big red flag, as it were, that they are socialists, not conservatives. This was a fight between leftist factions, ie Bolsheviks versus Mensheviks.

jr565 said...

It's a strange day when I'm siding with nazis over the populace. But then agian, the populace seem to be the thugs in the is equation.

Bob said...

In California these days one better bring ones own security.

This will not end well.

jr565 said...

"Now; I am curious how Donald Trump adds to "our" side of this debate. Do we win with a brutish campaign against political correctness? Or do we win with careful counter-journalism?"

Do you think you're winning Chuck?

Sayyid said...

Personally, I would have headlined the story "neo-fascists attack neo-nazis." I'm reminded of the Henry Kissinger quote regarding the Iran-Iraq war: "It's a pity they can't both lose."

Moneyrunner said...

Unknown has done us a favor. It sounds like Heimbach is the doppelganger of an Obama supporter: hates Jews, need to basically transform the all-white state, young college student, the need to get away from symbols like the American flag, America guilty of genocide. Would give odds that Heimbach’s preference is Bernie Sanders or Liz Warren.

mockturtle said...

In California these days one better bring ones own security.

And that's not easy in the Golden State. Almost impossible to obtain a concealed carry permit and they don't honor those of other states.

Unknown said...

Moneyrunnner, actually he is a Trump supporter.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/neo-nazis-at-trump-rally-rough-up-black-woman-youre-scum-your-time-will-come/

"Neo-Nazis at Trump rally caught on video roughing up black woman: ‘You’re scum, your time will come!

White supremacists hurled racist and sexist slurs Tuesday afternoon as they pushed a black protester out of a Donald Trump rally in Kentucky.

Videos have circulated of a young woman being pushed and shoved by a screaming man wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat at the Trump rally in Louisville, and the protester described the experience afterward in a Facebook video.

The hat-wearing Trump supporter appears to be white nationalist Matthew Heimbach, head of the Traditionalist Worker Party, according to other protesters who spoke with the New York Daily News."

Jonathan Swift Junior said...

I love it when "Protestors" show up wearing face masks and carrying clubs. I went in the bank the other day with my firearm and face mask but the police wouldn't listen when I tried to explain to them that I was a "customer" making a "withdrawl.

damikesc said...

The hat-wearing Trump supporter appears to be white nationalist Matthew Heimbach, head of the Traditionalist Worker Party, according to other protesters who spoke with the New York Daily News."

Sad.

Did the police stand by and do nothing when it happened on orders of the mayor?

No?

Then the bigot is still better than the mayor of San Jose.

ymarsakar said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaYjVBAyYAI

Here's some alternative sources on what the TWP is about.

Btw, believing what you hear in the news, is why people voted for Hussein Obola. Just so you know. Also if the white boys want personal defense, they should check out civilian trainers such as TFT or Tim Larkin Target Focus Training. Just saying.