May 21, 2016

It depends on what the meaning of "Venn diagram" is...

Just because 2 overlapping circles are used in a graphic doesn't mean it's a Venn Diagram.



I mean, it's a terrible graphic and looking at it makes my head hurt, but let's step back from the brink of Hillary Derangement Syndrome. She did not call it a Venn Diagram.



I think the freakout is a little unseemly. Vox, for example:
But this is simply not how Venn diagrams work. The circles are completely wrong. They should, for one, overlap entirely, since the gun owners referenced in this are all Americans. And the circle for Americans should be much, much bigger than the circle for gun owners, since gun owners make up just one segment of the US population. (That is, unless, the Clinton campaign is literally saying that a lot of gun owners are un-American, which is a very, very hot take for a risk-averse campaign.)
Maybe they're just circles to be pretty. Circles are nice. So round! Here, they enclose words, words and numbers. Numbers can be hard, so soften them with round shapes, round shapes and soft colors, like the colors Mother used to decorate your nursery, Mother, who didn't trouble you too much with numbers but who comforted you with her round, round shapes.

How sexist the critics of Hillary's circles are — so eager to jump to the conclusion that she's not good with the graphic depiction of numerical data and doesn't know what a Venn diagram is. To laugh at a woman this way is deliberately to tap into the sexism that lies within the heart of the American voter. All the more reason to embrace the first woman President, to fall into the loving arms of a soothing presence who does not demand analytical precision as we look at the pretty shapes.

54 comments:

mezzrow said...

All the more reason to embrace the first woman President, to fall into the loving arms of a soothing presence who does not demand analytical precision as we look at the pretty shapes

Clinton today, Camacho tomorrow. Embrace your innumerate future.

David Begley said...

This further supports my thesis that Hillary is too stupid to be president. If she knew a single thing about Venn diagrams she never would have posted the tweet. More importantly, she would have known the inter-webs would call her out. The American people aren't that stupid.

Her private email server will cost her the election. How could she be so, so stupid? Unqualified.

Bob Boyd said...

I thought the circles looked like two bullet holes, a fine grouping, a group like Momma used to make.
There's nothing more soothing for a child than to know your mother can double tap with the best of them.

tim in vermont said...

It's just sexism that leads them men to point out that winning 6 consecutive coin tosses in six tries is highly improbable, especially in only one attempt.

Men made math in a way that deliberately makes it hard for women to understand. But don't let that lead you to think that maybe there are cognitive differences between men and women! On account of there are no such differences! Men and women were made by God equal in every way six thousands years ago! Millions of years of evolutionary pressure on the sexes NEVER HAPPENED!

Rex said...

It's sexist if anyone criticizes a woman for anything at all? Or maybe "math" is a sexist dog whistle? Perhaps you're kidding. Sometimes I can't tell.

Saint Croix said...

like the colors Mother used to decorate your nursery, Mother, who didn't trouble you too much with numbers but who comforted you with her round, round shapes.

oh man, this election

Evil Dad vs. Evil Mom and Crazy Grandpa

I want a divorce!

Saint Croix said...

this is why the state is not our parents

say it again, children!

the state is not our parents, and it doesn't love us

Mark said...

Do they think graphic design requires math?

Their inability to distinguish a grapic from a mathematic figure makes me seriously question their analytical skills

tim in vermont said...

Before he got mixed up in Presidential politics, Bernie was pretty reasonable on the 2nd amendment, immigration too. There are a lot of people in Vermont that make their living doing work that scabs, er I mean, illegal aliens, err, I mean immigrants would be more than happy to do cheaper. Bernie has talked to them, shook their hands, and not in settings where all in attendance were pre-screened. The Democrat and Republican elites both think that a man who wants to work for himself seasonally, cutting lawns and plowing snow, for example, with long breaks to hunt and fish is some kind of "losertard" whose concerns should be roundly ignored.

hoyden said...

Democrat party platform; more of the same last 7 years plus gun control!

PB said...

It's all deception.
1. The nonsensical diagram is intended to deceive because it has numbers.
2. When surveyed, were all informed of exactly what "background check" means?
Those who would be persuaded by this are idiots. Those who put these together are con artists.

AprilApple said...

Hillary likes to stick the word "Universal" in front of everything.

To the point of embarrassment.
Makes me think she's the bigger communist.

Sydney said...

I suspect Hillary doesn't consider gun owners American. Nor anyone else who disagrees with her.

Tommy Duncan said...

David Begley said: "Her private email server will cost her the election. How could she be so, so stupid?

Makin' their way,
The only way they know how,
That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/dukesofhazzardlyrics.html

Saint Croix said...

Evil Mom is like this. "Give me all your guns! I want your guns. I don't trust you with the guns. Mommy is taking all the guns. You can't have any guns. Ha! Now go to work and bring me back my money."

Saint Croix said...

Evil Dad is like this. "I am Thor, god of thunder! I will rain death down from the sky! I will crush my enemies! Obama has been raining death down from the skies and I want to rain death down from the skies! I can do it way better than he can! Torture, pain, death from the skies! Vote for me! Yay!"

buwaya puti said...

Of course, the candidate didn't do this. It's a bit of propaganda that came from an ad writer and got approved by some committee in her campaign. I doubt she sees more than a small fraction of what they are putting out.
She isn't Trump, who up to this point seems to have been generating most of his own material.

Bruce Hayden said...

If it isn't a Venn diagram, then why did it get traction? First, it was like a Venn diagram, but by someone who didn't understand them. And to counter the argument that it maybe wasn't supposed to be such - they should have realized that much of educated America automatically see the intersecting circles as illustrating Venn Diagrams. I probably first encountered them in math in maybe junior high school, then continually thereafter through college, business school, my first career as a software engineer, and even on rare occasion in my second as an attorney. How naive do she and her people have to be, to not realize that the intersecting circles suggest a Venn Diagram? It is either that, or they intended it to be one, but weren't technogically sophisticated to do it right.

I think that the reason that this is getting traction is that Hillary has shown herself to be living in her own bubble, not connected to the real world. She hasn't had to or bothered to drive for over 20 years now. She didn't know how to get through the turnstiles to ride the NYC subways, something that many of us who only ride subways every decade or so know how to do. She was their Senator, and they own a house there, but obviously hadn't ridden the subway there for decades. She blamed the private server on not being able to deal with more than one mobile device, and there are emails from Huma explaining that Hillary needs help with secured transmissions. Much of the educated sector of this country takes driving, riding the subway, email, and intelligent phones and pads for granted. This is 2016, not 1966, or 1946. The traction comes from how easy it is to add this to the list of things that are too technologically advanced for poor Hillary. And at this point, it doesn't matter if she and her people really do understand Venn diagrams - rather it is like what happened with GW Bush (41) and grocery scanners (he apparently did understand them) or President Ford and coordination (he was the best Presidential athlete of maybe the last century, with the lowest golf handicap, and able to outskie his Secret Service). Everyone knows now that she is severely technologically challenged, and the reality no longer matters. It doesn't help that Trump, very close to her in age, has mastered electronic media to an extent that would be impressive for someone half his age. And it doesn't help that young adults, so important to Obama's election, find this sort of expertise essential to their daily lives.

Hagar said...

Universal background checks are good, so let us mandate universal background checks.
What? The system is faulty and does not work well? We must tighten it up and improve it! Forthwith!!!
Still not perfect? We must tighten it up some more! Fingerprint all gun owners and re-register all guns annually!

And so it goes. It will never be good enough.

Bob Boyd said...

America is a broken home. It's not an amicable divorce and us kids are caught in the middle.
Hillary is our mother. She's a bitter woman who styles herself a feminist. She's been sleeping in the cold spare bedroom in the back of the house for years and she's always angry our father, Trump.
Father is a brash, good-humored, successful man, but he wasn't around much, always working. Since the separation, he usually has a beautiful woman waiting in his car and often talks about the fantastic things he'll do with us kids, but they never seem to happen.
Bernie is Hillary's older brother, a kind-hearted guy who never did much, but we're certainly welcome in his dirty trailer. In fact, he says, we'd help him qualify for significantly increased benefits.
The judge has told us we're old enough to choose where we want to live, but we have to stay together.

Michael said...

Seriously, do you not think any male candidate who sent that tweet would have been ridiculed as much or more?

Bruce Hayden said...

The reason that the survey she was pushing is so deceptive is that the almost assuredly didn't explain what they meant by universal background checks. It sounds good, but is horrible in reality. Universal presumably means universal. Which means that a wife would need a background check to use her husband's gun against an intruder, or a kid to use the gun their father was using to teach them to shoot. It would essentially eliminate anyone handling someone else's gun for even a very short time.

The question should be where do you draw the line of when a background check is required? And most people who aren't involved in the area don't understand where the line currently is, which is that anyone who is buying a gun from someone in the business of selling guns must subject themselves to a background check before completing the purchase. The two big problems I see are that the Feds only have a couple of days to complete a background check, or it will be deemed a success (to guard against the govt controlling access to guns by dawdling), and that there are people who are on the line in regards to being in the business of selling guns. That latter is a good part of the real gun show loophole - but the ATF keeps their eye on this very hard. Should background checks be required for short term loans, like husband to wife, father to kid, or even among friends out shooting? I think most would say "no". And then you get to the intermediate area of private sales, which are probably as common, if not more so, than sales by those in the business of sellng firearms. In much of the country (like here in MT), any such requirement would be ignored, as is turning out to be the case in nearby WA. Here, guns are routinely sold or traded for almost anything imaginable, like vehicles, trailers, chain saws, etc. (e.g. a couple years ago, I sold an ATV for a handgun and cash, since the buyer didn't have enough money to meet my asking price - after passing on a half dozen other deal that included guns - what can I say? I liked the handgun, a .40 H&K USP Compact). And these private sales and exchanges are really what anti-gunners mean when they talk about the "gun show loophole", at least those who understand that most guns sold at gun shows are sold by FFLs, which require background checks.

Saint Croix said...

Evil Mom: "It's not my fault! It's not my fault! I know they murdered our ambassador but I want to make clear it's not my fault! Lock up the artists! Lock up the filmmakers! If only we could silence all Americans, this bad thing would not have happened. It's definitely not my fault. I know it was 3:00 a.m. and I wasn't actually ready for the phone call. But it's not my fault! I was shopping at saks.com on my personal e-mail on my personal server, okay? I have a personal life! Leave me alone. I'm not baking cookies over here. And it's not my fault."

exhelodrvr1 said...

Two possibilities:
1) They really are that dumb.
2) They made it look like a Venn diagram, with the right words on it, because a significant portion of the electorate doesn't understand Venn diagrams. Or much of anything having to do with numbers. And even if the main stream media does, they are unlikely to point it out.

Leaning towards 2, but 1 certainly isn't out of the question.

Fritz said...

Two possibilities:
1) They really are that dumb.
2) They made it look like a Venn diagram, with the right words on it, because a significant portion of the electorate doesn't understand Venn diagrams. Or much of anything having to do with numbers. And even if the main stream media does, they are unlikely to point it out.

Leaning towards 2, but 1 certainly isn't out of the question.


Why choose, when both can be true?

cyrus83 said...

Looking at that diagram from Hillary, the initial visual indication is that 90% of Americans and 83% of gun owners do NOT support universal background checks. I know what she's trying to say, but the easier visual graphic would have been a pie chart showing support among gun owners only. That would still have been a circle, much easier to read, and could evoke Pac-Man if it was done right.

On another note though...why push this issue at this time? Gun control has historically been a loser for Democrats, the issue tends to stir up the pro-gun voters disproportionate to the gun-control voters. The NRA also just endorsed Trump, so why remind voters so soon afterward of why the NRA did that?

Bruce Hayden said...

This article points out a bunch of problems with the Hillary Venn-like diagram, and has a great Venn diagram of their own at the end: 6 Huge Problems With Hillary's Gun Control Venn Diagram. Even if it wasn't supposed to be a Venn Diagram, many/most educated people probably automatically understood it to be one, and if it were one, it wouldn't say what they wanted it to say. Their Venn Diagram at the bottom shows two completely disjoint sets - the top one is titled "People Who Know How to Make Venn Diagrams" and the one on the bottom is titled "Hillary's Graphic Design Team", indicating that the intersection of these two sets is the empty set.

Laslo Spatula said...

Not a Venn Diagram but a Dem Diagram.

Circles have feelings.

I am Laslo.

robother said...

Hillary's diagram could work as an accurate Venn diagram, if the 83% of gun owners included all gun owners worldwide. Apparently, even the well-armed terrorist groups in the Middle East and Africa support background checks by wide margins. I salute the brave pollsters who went into the heart of ISIS and Boko Haram enclaves to bring back this vital information.

Michael K said...

And at this point, it doesn't matter if she and her people really do understand Venn diagrams - rather it is like what happened with GW Bush (41) and grocery scanners (he apparently did understand them)

I agree but the media will not push this meme as they did with Bush.

The harm to her campaign comes from the techies who are on the left but who may now wonder if she is as smart as they thought.

It's a bit like Kerry trying to look like he knows about guns or Obama trying to shoot free throws with TV there.

Birches said...

Saint Croix is on a roll.

If Obama had put out this graphic, it would have been ignored, so I think Althouse is on to something. The facts are that Hillary! is just unlikeable, so people notice the ineptness of her campaign more.

Fernandinande said...

Ha ha on stupid Billary.

Rex said...
It's sexist if anyone criticizes a woman for anything at all?


Only if she's white; otherwise it's deliberately tapping into the racism that lies within the heart of the American voter.

Or maybe "math" is a sexist dog whistle?

Math is racist, too, especially for Asians.

tim in vermont said...
Men made math in a way that deliberately makes it hard for women to understand.


Even worse, a "1" looks like an erect penis.

Rusty said...

I haven't bought a firearm over the counter in adecade or more, but it is my understanding that we already have universal background checks.

mike c said...

Ann

It is obviously an attempt at a Venn diagram! To think otherwise is almost as funny as hillary's diagram.

Big Mike said...

All the more reason to embrace the first woman President, to fall into the loving arms of a soothing presence who does not demand analytical precision as we look at the pretty shapes.

@Althouse, your text implies Hillary lacks analytical precision, which certainly would explain the destabilization of Libya, wouldn't it?

Dude1394 said...

It IS meant to be a venn diagram. That is is deliberately an attempt to lie about it's outcome is not surprising at all.

Big Mike said...

@Rusty, the way Dumbocrats interpret the words "universal background checks" includes having a background check if you buy a gun as a present for a hunter in the family, or for a long time family friend who hunts, or even a .22 target rifle for a son or daughter who is old enough to handle the responsibility of owning, maintaining, and securing a firearm. It includes private sales between two people who've know each other for years. It includes handing down a grandfather's shotgun to a grandchild who is old enough to hunt.

Since inner city gangstas and the gun runners who supply them avoid background checks, Hillary's proposed legislative action would not affect them.

Captain Curt said...

Everybody's missing the real issue here. What she's really saying is that many gun owners are illegal immigrants, and therefore not Americans. That's the part of the diagram not intersecting with "Americans".

I think she should be called out on her evident racism here...

Ann Althouse said...

And the seasons they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return we can only look
Behind from where we came
And go round and round and round
In the circle game

Anthony said...

Please, she's mostly dumb as a post at anything but corruption. Remember when she remarked on the seeming inability of car producers to make an automobile more fuel efficient than a Model T?

Most of them aren't terribly bright.

rhhardin said...

Venn diagrams were deprecated in favor of karanaugh maps in the 60s.

cubanbob said...

Hillary should stop tweeting. It's not her medium. All this does is make her once again look arrogant and stupid, not a good thing if you want to win a national election. Yes she has the anti-gun vote locked up but that isn't a winning number. Her arrogant tweet to Congress shows her lack of political intuition. Every member of the House and one third of the Senate is up for re-election and those people are looking first and foremost to winning their election, not her election, and they aren't looking to antagonize a group that really does turn out to vote.

John said...

I am a big Obama fan and not least of which for what he has done for gun ownership in the US.

Dramatically increased (Doubled? Tripled?) the number of guns in the hands of private citizens.

Dramatically increased the number of citizens owning and qualified to use guns.

Dramatically increased the amount of ammunition in private hands for those guns.

Dramatically eased the ability of the private citizen to own a gun and get a permit to carry it openly and/or concealed. This is because states have been cutting back permitting requirements. We now have 19 (I think) states where no permit is required to open and/or concealed carry in most cases.

Dramatically increased interstate reciprocity of carry permits. I think it is 22 states that now permit carry to non-residents who have a permit from a reciprocal state. FL will even issue carry permits to non-residents who can then use that to carry in the other 21 states.

Before Obama, it would have been easier to disarm the citizenry as Hilary wants to do. A la Australia. Not easy but easier.

With so many people now armed and with so many states now defending their right to be armed, I suspect that it will be impossible.

I do not know if this is because President Obama is smart or stupid, whether this is by purpose or accident. I really don't care. I really, really, really, like the end result however we got here.

"An armed society is a polite society" Lazarus Long

John Henry

John said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...

And the seasons they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return we can only look
Behind from where we came
And go round and round and round
In the circle game

Is that Dylan?

I love the song but really only know it by Ian and Sylvia, never paid attention to who wrote it.

Perhaps a more appropriate Dylan verse from that I&S album would be:


Everybody's building ships and boats
Some are building monuments
Others jotting down notes
Everybody's in despair
Every girl and boy
But when Quinn the Eskimo gets here
Everybody's gonna jump for joy


Trump = Quinn

John Henry

Sebastian said...

"To laugh at a woman this way is deliberately to tap into the sexism that lies within the heart of the American voter. All the more reason to embrace the first woman President, to fall into the loving arms of a soothing presence who does not demand analytical precision as we look at the pretty shapes." Subtle sarcasm, I know. Referring to "sexism" is the giveaway. Still, for men to laugh at women in the same way they would laugh at men is to violate the first law of feminism.

mockturtle said...

I prefer Dylan Thomas to Bob Dylan.

knox said...

All the more reason to embrace the first woman President, to fall into the loving arms of a soothing presence who does not demand analytical precision as we look at the pretty shapes.

LOL. If only she'd used "Rose Quartz" and "Serenity"

tim in vermont said...

These are the kinds of diagrams people who speak Austrian make on the intercontinental railroad.

rehajm said...

This is a pie chart of my favorite bars...

Brian McKim & Traci Skene said...

"Circle Game." Joni Mitchell? Or the insufferable Judi Collins? Or neither one?

Mom2Es said...

Sexist? Do you really think Hillary put together that diagram and tweeted it herself? My money was on a pajama-boy type.

I'd like to give the Clinton campaign the benefit of the doubt and assume they were wanting to remind us of the halcyon days of the '90's by invoking Teen Talk Barbie: "You know what? Math class IS tough!" Except that the basics of Venn diagrams were covered in my kids' second grade math texts. SECOND GRADE. My female children at the tender age of seven would have done a better job constructing this diagram than Hillary's campaign staff. If the social media wing of your Presidential campaign can't master second grade math concepts, then the ridicule has been earned (or "garnered") fair and square.

Zach said...

Sorry, no. It's a Venn diagram by people who don't understand Venn diagrams. It's a pair of circles, the overlap is supposed to be important... it's a Venn diagram. You can't just define your own meaning for something so close to a Venn diagram and not have people interpret it as one.

mikee said...

Universal Background Checks are - exactly like the Gun Show Loophole and Assault Weapons Bans and Import Restrictions and Magazine Capacity Limits - merely another attempt at the demonization of legal gun owners, with an end goal of removing legal gun ownership from US citizens. All the anti-gun bigots can do is lie, because telling the truth makes the case for gun ownership and self-defense rights.

Char Char Binks said...

Maybe this is about Hillary's "politics of meaning", whatever that means.