March 12, 2016

Protesters shut down the Trump rally in Chicago and WaPo's headline is "Skirmishes erupt after Trump cancels Chicago rally over security concerns."

As if the action started with Trump. He canceled, and then "skirmishes" happened. The active agents, the protesters, don't even appear. They are merged into the notion of "skirmishes" — blurs of human activity within which who knows who's doing what?

The text of the article, unlike the headline, puts the events in what I think is the right order:
Donald Trump hastily postponed his Friday night rally in Chicago because of “growing safety concerns” created by thousands of protesters inside and outside of an arena at the University of Illinois. The decision immediately sparked nasty verbal and physical fights between protesters and Trump supporters who had been eager to see him that night.
The protesters created a scene of massive disorder, forcing Trump to stay away, and the Trump supporters experienced a great affront. They'd come out to see their guy, gone through all the procedures and the waiting, witnessed the protests, and then heard that these protesters had crushed their opportunity to listen to a speech and show him their support.
A crowd of more than 9,000 learned of the cancelation at about 6:35 p.m. Central Time, more than half an hour after Trump was scheduled to take the stage. The thousands of protesters immediately burst into cheers and began chanting: "We stopped Trump! We stopped Trump!" Many of Trump's supporters, who had waited hours to see him, seemed stunned and a few tried a chant of their own, without much luck: "USA! USA!" As the two sides reacted to the news, skirmishes broke out in the crowd and spilled out of the arena into a mass protest outside.
I'm surprised it wasn't an all-out riot. The Trump supporters were massively disappointed, needed to get out of a crowded arena, and they were surrounded by the people who'd caused the disappointment, people who'd now taken to taunting them, chanting. But there were only "skirmishes." I'd say the Trump supporters showed amazing restraint
"It sent a message that Chicago is a very liberal city and it will always be a liberal city because it does not promote hate -- it promotes love and it promotes prosperity," said Farris Ahmad, 23, a protester and junior political science major at the College of DuPage. He was cut off by a group of police sparring with a Trump supporter who had ripped away a cloth sign being held by a protester, sparking a profanity-filled tussle.
I guess WaPo highlighted Ahmad's shaky lesson in the meaning of "liberal" because of the vivid contrast between his fuzzy-headed proclamation and the police getting after a Trump supporter who could be portrayed as out of control. One guy grabbed a sign. Through the veil of WaPo journalism, I'm seeing surprisingly tame Trumpers.

WaPo tells us that the Chicago police and the University of Illinois police say they didn't participate in the decision to cancel but doesn't provide information about the role of the Secret Service.
After the rally was canceled, demonstrators on the streets could be heard shouting "Bernie! Bernie" as well as "16 shots," a reference to the number of times a white Chicago police officer fired at Laquan McDonald, a black 17-year-old killed in 2014. Large protests erupted in Chicago after video footage of McDonald's death was released last November.
How connected were the protesters to the Bernie Sanders campaign and to Black Lives Matter? These organizations should be pressed to take a position: Do they condone protests aimed at shutting down rallies or do they condemn them? If Trump had something like this happening in his name he would be pressured to denounce, condemn, deplore, and disown — over and over.

245 comments:

1 – 200 of 245   Newer›   Newest»
LarsPorsena said...

"It sent a message that Chicago is a very liberal city and it will always be a liberal city because it does not promote hate -- it promotes love and it promotes prosperity," said Farris Ahmad, 23,.."


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Coffee out my nose funny.

buwaya puti said...

One interesting speculatuon is how the retaliation manifests.
There are more than enough Trump supporters everywhere to shut down all "left" venues.
Anyway, this is just the beginning.

Michael McClain said...

Liberal Fascists. Be careful what you wish for.

Michael said...

Our poorly educated progressives are wont to call Trump Hitler when they are themselves employing the tactics of the Sturmabteilung or brownshirts. Both the Sturmabteilung and Mosley's BUF black shirts were keen to stop the rallies of their opponents, disrupting them at every turn.

I saw last night one of these screeching uneducated informing the camera that hate speech was illegal.

sydney said...

I certainly see it the way you do, Professor Althouse, but I wonder how many understand just how slanted the mainstream media coverage is. I am hoping we have reached a tipping point where even the average television news watcher and mainstream media newspaper reader understands how much they are in the tank for one side.

tim in vermont said...

I am sure that the Sanders Youth weren't wearing brown shirts, so everything is cool.

sydney said...

Michael,
Progressives are the best at projection.

Michael said...

Althouse:
"If Trump had something like this happening in his name he would be pressured to denounce, condemn, deplore, and disown — over and over."

How sweet. If Trump had something like this happening the National Guard would be called out.

Pettifogger said...

Pravda on the Hudson will never call for what you call for.

tim in vermont said...

We have miseducated a generation to the point where they think that if something happened with a 19 in front of the year, it can't happen with a 20 in front of the year. Even as it is clearly happening again.

Meade said...

"It sent a message that Chicago is a very liberal city and it will always be a liberal city because it does not promote hate -- it promotes love and it promotes prosperity," said Farris Ahmad, 23,.."

It needs to also promote toleration for civil dissent if Chicago truly wants to send a message of liberal democracy.

And Bernie needs to disavow the anti-free speech protesters and outside agitators. This could be his Sister Souljah moment if he's up for it.

David Begley said...

""It sent a message that Chicago is a very liberal city and it will always be a liberal city because it does not promote hate -- it promotes love and it promotes prosperity," said Farris Ahmad, 23, a protester and junior political science major at the College of DuPage."

Do we blame the College of DuPage for this kid?

But it really starts at the top and with Obama. Conservatives don't hate liberals. We just disagree with their failed liberal policies.

Is love manifest in shutting up your opponents?

And what is the sales and income tax rates in Chicagoland these days? I'm sure that drives prosperity.

ganderson said...

"It sent a message that Chicago is a very liberal city and it will always be a liberal city because it does not promote hate -- it promotes love and it promotes prosperity," said Farris Ahmad, 23,.."


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Coffee out my nose funny.
Isn't the College of DuPage a JUCO in a toney(sp?) suburb? Just askin'.

Michael K said...

There is an interesting parallel here. The Tea Party protests several years ago were marked by the good deportment of the protestors who even picked up trash left by others and left the area clearer than it had been before they arrived. Last night the Trump supporters left the huge arena quietly in spite of taunting and some aggressive actions that I saw on TV.

Hmmm.

Could it be that these people are the same ones who attended those Tea Party protests ?

The left and the GOPe all characterize Trump supporters as uneducated rednecks and suggest he is Hitler. Maybe this is just the surviving Tea Party members still looking for help after the GOPe let them down.

Could it be ?

rhhardin said...

Trump shuts down political correctness with over-the-top humor.

That in turn is shut down by actual violence by PC enforcers.

The MSM will be the arbitrator here. The Trump caused the violent reaction narrative is likely to run forever in the MSM.

PC is still in the MSM editor's chair.

Unless Trump comes up with a counter to it, with his best forum format taken from him.

tim in vermont said...

I agree that I a done with Bernie if he doesn't forcefully disown these people.

Skeptical Voter said...

Hey Ann, it's Chi-Town (and Bill Ayers). Forget it.

Meade said...

"The MSM will be the arbitrator here."

An arbitrator. The final arbitrator will be New Media. It's 2016.

rhhardin said...

Megyn Kelley is having her period again.

traditionalguy said...

There is such a strong hate for America, and somebody has to get to the bottom of this.

Slimeball Cruz immediately joined the Soros Brownshirt Army BLM and the Sanders Campaign in blaming Trump Campaign for setting the TONE by its violence planned against a reporter's arm. Apparently God told him this during a Cruz Coven meeting using tongues and interpretation, since that is definitely an unknown tongue for Pure Conservatives.

And the beat goes on.


PB said...

Local Chicago activists were working for days before the event to "make people aware" of the Trump rally. Among these was Rep. Luis Guitierrez (D-IL). This faction of the left doesn't believe constitutional protections are available to people other than themselves. They've been told to get in people's faces and strike back twice as hard.

This is what Obama has wrought.

rhhardin said...

The final arbitrator will be New Media. It's 2016.

The news biz still depends on soap opera women, its daily audience. It's a business force.

If the internet starts making money, it will be a different matter, assuming you can get conservatives to view ads instead of blocking them.

rhhardin said...

Cruz was shameful for blaming Trump for the reaction. That shows Cruz goes PC under the slightest pressure. He'd stink as President.

damikesc said...

This is going to hurt Democrats bad. Bernie supporters trying to instigate a riot.

As much of a concern as he is...he's better than thewe clowns.

Viking In Winter said...

The least civilized city in America.
Lawless citizens.
Corrupt police.
Crappy University.
Corrupt politicians.
yuck...

harrogate said...

rhardin:

Rubio even more directly blames Trump for what happened, in his presser today.

Interesting times.

Original Mike said...

"And Bernie needs to disavow the anti-free speech protesters and outside agitators. This could be his Sister Souljah moment if he's up for it."

I think so. Video showed a fair amout of Bernie signs and chants in the crowd.

chickelit said...

The MSM will be the arbitrator here. The Trump caused the violent reaction narrative is likely to run forever in the MSM.

So far, all of the other candidates have blamed Trump for this exercise in crowd bullying.

Not one exception, am I right?

PB said...

I would suggest to those left-wing protesters that they explore the meaning of the term "useful fool". It doesn't mean what they think it means. They are merely the useful fools of a greater agenda. If that agenda manifests itself, the useful fools will not be celebrated and elevated, but will be dealt with by that very same agenda like all useful fools before them, poverty, misery and death.

rhhardin said...

I have a sudden Robin problem, starting two hours ago, trying to distract me from work.

What is that thump occasionally? A long investigation finds it's a male Robin and his reflection in a window.

Males are so into violence.

Michael said...

Bernie was a huge supporter of the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. Ortega, their leader, is now the richest man in Nicaragua, the richest socialist in all of Central America.

Ortega's tactics, Bernie's friend's tactics, are as those deployed last night. Do not hold your breath for Bernie to condemn.

Rob McLean said...

blurs of human activity within which who knows who's doing what?

Since we don't know exactly what happened, let's blame the people we already don't like.

AprilApple said...

You expect the pro-D hack press to be honest?

Laughable. The hack press is as dishonest as Hillary.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Threatening violent mobs must not be allowed to take away our first amendment rights.

Meade said...

"Males are so into violence."

Anyone who truly understands soap opera should already know this.

motorrad said...

These useful fools should remember what happens when they are no longer needed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

Prosecutorial Indiscretion said...

The basest part of my nature recalls the words of law enforcement legend Clancy Wiggum: "It's time for a good old-fashioned hippie ass-whomping." I'm tempted to say if people are keen to recreate 1968, let's by all means oblige them.

Meade said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anglelyne said...

I see Mr. Constitution couldn't get his support for the the anti-free speech mob out onto the airwaves fast enough.

Michael K said...

HuffPo is about evenly divided on whether the left was right or wrong to riot last night.

I enjoy the comments by blacks, who include their photo so you can see where they are coming from, and who brag about Trump not being allowed to speak in "my city."

"Their city" had 22 shootings last weekend. I wonder how many this weekend.?

Meade said...

"Ortega, their leader, is now the richest man in Nicaragua, the richest socialist in all of Central America."

Don't worry Contras are back.

Tank said...

raditionalguy said...

There is such a strong hate for America, and somebody has to get to the bottom of this.

Slimeball Cruz immediately joined the Soros Brownshirt Army...


Noted.

rhhardin said...

I remember years and years ago, a neighbor hanging aluminum pie plates on a window attempting to discourage a pecking Robin. Then they soaped the window.

A few days later I spotted the woman of the house laying in wait with a bb gun.

That's equality.

AprilApple said...

Trumpsters can be pig-headed and they like to shout down anyone who opposes their precious Trump. But this is not that. This is Bernie supporters doing that. This is illiberal hate filled Chicago doing that.

Trump should come out and ask "why does Democrat Rham Emanuel still has a job?" That would throw em'.

Meade said...

"I'm tempted to say if people are keen to recreate 1968, let's by all means oblige them."

There are many valid parallels of Donald J. Trump 2016 to George C. Wallace 1968.

Bob Ellison said...

I'm surprised it wasn't an all-out riot.

It was a riot. There was a big cop bleeding from his skull. Three injuries, five arrests, and just watch the video. This was not a peace march. It was a riot.

Original Mike said...

Robins are pussies. We have woodpeckers.

campy said...

Gosh, I'm beginning to think the mainstream media isn't quite as impartial and unbiased as I'd thought.

Meade said...

"That's equality."

Try speaking that word as if a wedding vow.

Drago said...

This is no different than what Chavez/Maduro and all leftists always pull.

In Venezuela Maduro launches his Chavez-created, Castro-trained maoist thugs into opposition rallies and his bully-boys use machine guns to "make their case" and "persuade" the crowd that perhaps this is not an event anyone should participate in.

No doubt when the lefty gunners "make their point" the Venezuelan versions of Amanda and Chuck are right there to justify it.

This is what the left has always been and will always be.

AprilApple said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

Meade: "There are many valid parallels of Donald J. Trump 2016 to George C. Wallace 1968."

"many"

How many is "many" and what, precisely, would they be?

Laslo Spatula said...

Fashion!
Turn to the left
Fashion!
Turn to the right
Oooh, fashion!
We are the goon squad and we're coming to town
Beep-beep Beep-beep

I am Laslo.

Meade said...

"This was not a peace march. It was a riot."

I personally know of at least one Trump follower who will be delighted.

virgil xenophon said...

The Communist News Network is HEAVY into the "Trump sets the 'tone' " meme this am. Of curse Trumps "potential" running-mate Kasich as stated this am that Trump has created a "toxic environment" and sewn "the seeds of destruction" so I guess his shot at VP just went south--Trump doesn't forget.

Drago said...

Michael K: "Their city" had 22 shootings last weekend. I wonder how many this weekend.?"

Those were "peace and love" shootings.

As always.

traditionalguy said...

The Saudi funded Muslim immigrant invasion is peddling its strange notion that Civil Liberty means the freedom to call out citywide riots against the existence of Infidels. That is the famous Arab Street that is so easily roused to violence against any free people that it finds.

AprilApple said...

Some bad behavior at a previous Trump rally gave the hack-D press the opening they need to be liars.

Meade said...

@Drago, read the George Wallace Wikipedia article. I'll start you off: 1. populism

wildswan said...

Probably this mob just elected Trump.

virgil xenophon said...

curse=course

as=has

Michael said...

Meade!

How quick of you to bring up the Contras and their sad little unsupported effort. When you speak the words Sandinista or Contra do you do so with a "Spanish" accent? I bet you do.

Meade said...

"Robins are pussies. We have woodpeckers."

Woodpeckers are tweets. We have raccoons.

Michael said...

Ha! Now that the Hitler comparison is no longer apt we have taken up George Wallace!!

I think Meade is inciting someone to shoot Trump. Sad.

Original Mike said...

Raccoons are nothing, though I do wish they'd stop pooping on the top of my fence.

Phil 3:14 said...

Bad dudes!

(Why is it when I hear that phrase, I hear the theme song for "Cops")

Meade said...

"I think Meade is inciting someone to shoot Trump. Sad."

You could not be more wrong. Take a look in the mirror.

sunsong said...

Trump is a bigot, a bully, a racist, a chauvinist, a potential war criminal etc etc etc and you are surprised there are protests in Chicago?...especially after his incendiary comments about "rouging up' and sending protesters out on stretchers?

Paco Wové said...

"How connected were the protesters to the Bernie Sanders campaign and to Black Lives Matter?"

Define "connected".

There is huge overlap between the foot soldiers of each, plus many other lefty-oriented and even "nonpartisan" non-profits. I'm sure that some effort is made to keep the appearance of separation at higher levels, but money and personnel slosh back and forth throughout the pan-left network.

Paco Wové said...

Sunsong –

Do you condone protests aimed at shutting down rallies or do you condemn them?

buwaya puti said...

There is usually a time and a reason for populism.
Polish "Solidarity" was also populist. So was the anti-Marcos movement. It took the manifestation of "populism" to start the elite openly switching sides.
Populism shows up when there is something disturbing the people such that they distrust the official hierarchy.
In the US this was true in Wallace's time and arguably ever since. It has manifested itself over and over in US politics, Reagan, Perot, Gingrich in 1994, Tea Party, it's the same thing and broadly the same people, in varying numbers. Very large numbers now.

David Begley said...

Viking in Winter:

You left out the Cubs.

Michael K said...

"This was not a peace march. It was a riot."

Yup,and "sunsong" seems to be cheering it on.

Fernandinande said...

Original Mike said...
Raccoons are nothing,


We have bald eagles, elk and cougars.

Fabi said...

Cruz fumbled badly by not unequivocally denouncing the agitators and the agitators alone. His reputation is built upon principles and those can be quickly eroded by acts of political opportunism.

I hope that sanity prevails all around, but I don't see much chance of civility from the BLM and Bernie/OWS crowd. They tasted "victory" last night, and poor behavior uncorrected only spirals out of control.

Limited blogger said...

The angry anti-Trump commenters here should be very proud. You have shut down the debate, congratulations.

Meade said...

Michael K said...
"This was not a peace march. It was a riot."
Yup,and "sunsong" seems to be cheering it on.
-------------
You seem to be willfully misreading sunsong.

AprilApple said...

Bill and Hillary Clinton are criminals, & that is fine with the media.

Trump called someone a loser once, and everyone needs a fainting couch.


(Trump supporters need to think twice before they elbow someone in the face, though. Trump supporters - do you really want to be on the same level as Chicago Bern?)

Anglelyne said...

Description from an attendee. Funny comment from another:

"Also, I saw one guy take a video where he started a chant of "Free shit! Free shit!" and got some Bernie supporters to join in. He walked away laughing and they all seemed confused, realizing only too late that they were duped. I hope this person uploads the video because that was damn hilarious."

Meade said...

"The angry anti-Trump commenters here should be very proud. You have shut down the debate, congratulations."

They have? 77 comments last I looked.

Chuck said...

Professor, you can make the case that the incident represents restraint on the part of the "Trumpers."

John McGraw -- the pony-tailed 78 year-old sucker puncher -- was not representative of any restraint on the part of Trumpers. And shame on Trump for winking at that incident. Shame on Trump for suggesting that crowds of people turn to fighting, instead of the rule of law. As a law professor, Trump should make your skin crawl.

I remain interested in your take on "emotionalism." You observed Scott Adams waxing poetic about Trump's genius appeal to emotionalism. Adams didn't care about facts or the law. So what do you think now?

pm317 said...

How connected were the protesters to the Bernie Sanders campaign and to Black Lives Matter?

Let us not forget Moveon.org and that villain of all things bad, Soros.

Meade said...

"We have bald eagles, elk and cougars."

We have those too. But it's the raccoons that'll kill ya.

sane_voter said...

Lots of Mexican flags at the riot, with the folks holding them flipping the bird and shouting profanity. Just doing the jobs that many Americans won't do.

Original Mike said...

"He walked away laughing and they all seemed confused, realizing only too late that they were duped."

Belly laugh.

Original Mike said...

You don't have elk!

sane_voter said...

Send these dopes to Venezuela or Cuba to enjoy real socialism.

Paco Wové said...

"You seem to be willfully misreading sunsong."

You're quite the protector, Mr. Official Althouse White Knight. I would assume Sunsong could speak for his/her/itself. It would be nice to know if he/she/it approved of protest intended to shut down speech, for example.

Chuck said...

Blogger Limited blogger said...
The angry anti-Trump commenters here should be very proud. You have shut down the debate, congratulations.


Ridiculous.

As I observed in the previous thread, the most effective journalistic voices opposing the BLM activists and MoveOn -- for years! -- have been outlets like the Weekly Standard and National Review. And you know where they stand on Trump.

It's not a binary thing. Opposition to BLM and MoveOn is not owned by the Trump crowd. They are late to the party. And opposition to Trump does not equate with support for BLM and MoveOn. That's a ridiculous notion, for which the journalistic record is nonexistent.

Meade said...

Original Mike said...
You don't have elk!

By "we" I mean WEsconsin:
http://www.wrn.com/2016/02/wisconsin-elk-herd-being-added-to/

pm317 said...

This kid who was there for Trump rally made me feel sad.

Original Mike said...

"Lots of Mexican flags at the riot, with the folks holding them flipping the bird and shouting profanity"

I saw that.

Fox had reporters going through the crowd later in the evening. When asked why they were protesting, several protesters said "I choose not to answer". WTF kind of protester is that?

Original Mike said...

I have ELK!

Meade said...

"You're quite the protector, Mr. Official Althouse White Knight."

I might even protect you if I thought you were being unfairly piled-on. That's how knight-y I am.

Hagar said...

Someone bought tickets for these people to get inside the auditorium. Apparently along with a note saying something like, "We do not recommend that you engage in violence after you get in."

During Prohibition gallon jars of fruit juice were sold with a label "If you add a pound of sugar and set this jar aside in a dark place for three weeks, it will turn into wine, which is a highly illegal thing for you to do, and we strongly recommend against doing so."

pm317 said...

Looking for video of another man who was with John Roberts on Fox who was there for the Trump rally. He made so much sense also saying that he came to hear the man himself without the media filter. He said he was not even a Trump supporter but supported Christie and Carson.

Hagar said...

Rabid raccoons.

Meade said...

"WTF kind of protester is that?"

Ha. Pussycats.

Drago said...

Chuck: "As I observed in the previous thread, the most effective journalistic voices opposing the BLM activists and MoveOn -- for years! -- have been outlets like the Weekly Standard and National Review."

That is an interesting assertion.

How are you measuring "effectiveness" in this case? What "effectiveness" criteria are you using?

Feel free to show your work, but don't worry, it's already fully understood you will offer up no substantive evidence to back up this latest flimsy assertion.

Rusty said...


There are many valid parallels of Donald J. Trump 2016 to George C. Wallace 1968.

Ther are many valid prallels of the Chicago protestors and the Brown Bhirts of 1936.

pm317 said...

Send these dopes to Venezuela or Cuba to enjoy real socialism.

Send that angry old man Bernie there. He may bring some of his first world wisdom there.

Big Mike said...

I'd say the Trump supporters showed amazing restraint.

Thank you, ma'am.

How connected were the protesters to the Bernie Sanders campaign and to Black Lives Matter? These organizations should be pressed to take a position: Do they condone protests aimed at shutting down rallies or do they condemn them?

BLM clearly condones protests aimed at shutting down rallies. They've already done so repeatedly, though I think that this is a first for a Republican rally. Nominally Republican, anyway.

If Trump had something like this happening in his name he would be pressured to denounce, condemn, deplore, and disown — over and over.

Even a college professor can figure it out!!!

What the Post and the Times forget is that no one trusts them anymore. Not even a left-of-center professor at a far left-of-center university. The 2016 election will turn them into a quaint historical footnote.

harrogate said...

Meade tries to be fair in the thread . Many commenters find this a sign of weakness and shenanigans .

Says more about the commenters than Meade .

Meade said...

"Ther are many valid prallels [...]"

There are zero valid parallels between my ability to proofread and yours.

buwaya puti said...

This is an extreme escalation of "protests".
One can protest without shutting down the other side.
If the exercise, like this one, is meant to shut down the other, then it is in another sphere entirely. It has become SOP on one side to interfere with political manifestations of the other, with planted disruptors in every meeting. This risks very nasty escalation.
This is in fact exactly like Nazi-Communist tactics against each other in Weimar Germany. This is why the Sturmabteilungen (SA) - " Storm Troopers" - were formed, to protect and to disrupt. The parallel is nearly precise.
There are huge risks in this, which is why "going there" is often seen as much too risky. The Marcos government didn't try to do this vs the opposition rallies, and vice versa, as neither side, wisely, wanted to escalate in that direction.
You see very similar things anywhere, such as 1950s Italy with Communists vs Christian Democrats - see the "Don Camillo" novels (Guareschi), which have a rather nasty subtext.
This isn't a matter of ideology but of tactics and strategy.
The Trump side, should it retaliate, can, without any doubt, claim that the other side did it first, in spades.

sane_voter said...

I saw that interview of the kid, terrible. And amazing those "protesters" behind him seek out the camera to flip the bird on national TV. Very vibrant protester group, just what America needs more of.

Laslo Spatula said...

I am uncomfortable about people talking about "Raccoons" on a post that involves Black Lives Matter.

Like you didn't mean it That Way.

I am Laslo.

Drago said...

sunsong: "...a potential war criminal...."

And all men are "potential rapists" and all groups opposed to Obamacare are "potential terrorists" and on and on and on.

We are getting very close to the sunsongs and Amanda and chucks of the world simply calling their political opponents "counter-revolutionaries" and "kulaks".

glenn said...

"I'm surprised it wasn't an all out riot"

It will be. I've read this book.

grimson said...

Trump and Cruz both responded badly, but Trump more seriously so, since as Fabi wrote "I don't see much chance of civility from the BLM and Bernie/OWS crowd. They tasted 'victory' last night, and poor behavior uncorrected only spirals out of control."

This also goes against Trump's many phony narratives: "everybody loves me," "I get along with everyone," that he will make such great deals.

And after BLM in Seattle took over Bernie Sanders' microphone, Trump said "That will never happen with me. I don't know if I'll do the fighting myself or if other people will, but that was a disgrace. I felt badly for him. But it showed that he's weak."

Trump has shown he is no better at managing BLM/OWS/Soros-funded protesters than anyone else.

Laslo Spatula said...

Meade said: "But it's the raccoons that'll kill ya."

We get what you are inferring.

Sly as a fox.

I am Laslo.

Big Mike said...

However the biggest casualty of the night is Ted Cruz. I had supported him over Trump, but his statement saying "responsibility starts at the top" and linking the violent protesters to Trump's "campaign that affirmatively encourages violence" is so very unwise that I have to question his capacity to make wise decisions as President of the United States.

Anglelyne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck said...

There were Mexican flags, Bernie signs, and there were -- make no mistake -- "MoveOn.org -branded/logo banners and posters.

I am all in favor of demanding apologies and denunciations from Sanders, Clinton and Soros.

Big Mike said...

But it's the raccoons that'll kill ya.

Only if they're rabid and you don't get tested after being bitten.

chillblaine said...

It's ok to protest Trump in any way you wish, as long as you are sincerely "offended."

Anglelyne said...

Chuck: As I observed in the previous thread, the most effective journalistic voices opposing the BLM activists and MoveOn -- for years! -- have been outlets like the Weekly Standard and National Review.

Drago: How are you measuring "effectiveness" in this case? What "effectiveness" criteria are you using?

Feel free to show your work, but don't worry, it's already fully understood you will offer up no substantive evidence to back up this latest flimsy assertion.



"Effective" in the Conservatism, Inc. sense:

1) Synonyms: "impotent", "ineffectual", "'influential' among circle-jerk readership"

2) Able to procure employment/sinecures for pundits who have no measurable effect on wider political discourse/action.

Chuck said...

Anybody watching Trump now? This stump speech gets more unhinged every time I hear it.

John Kasich "is totally in favor of amnesty." Donald Trump has sued people for lies far less inflammatory defamations.

"Little Marco" "choking like a dog." So much for Trump's turn to civility.

What a hateful thug. We should cordon off Nevada, send the Trump campaign, BLM and MoveOn there, arm them, and let them kill each other.

buwaya puti said...

In a situation like this there really aren't options besides escalation. Once one side has gone there, it has to be tit for tat, else the other side is paralyzed.
In this case Trumps side is the first victim because he leads. It's clear that these tactics were in play very early, and were in preparation for deployment against whomever is the strategic target. In the future they will be massively applied to any Republican, Cruz or whomever, if it isn't Trump.

pm317 said...

@Big Mike, yeah.. I agree with what you said. Cruz didn't rise to the occasion. Everybody is trying to make political hay by trying to bring down Trump. But majority looking at this are appalled that an organized effort of these protesters could do what they did and get away with it. It may just move more voters to his side because they see the naked farce in other people's comments.

Tank said...

Big Mike said...

However the biggest casualty of the night is Ted Cruz. I had supported him over Trump, but his statement saying "responsibility starts at the top" and linking the violent protesters to Trump's "campaign that affirmatively encourages violence" is so very unwise that I have to question his capacity to make wise decisions as President of the United States.


Yes, again, noted.

Hagar said...

Its an ill bird that fouls his own nest - or his wife's.

Chuck said...

Drago; when I cited The Weekly Standard and National Review as having made an "effective" case against BLM and MoveOn, I was referring to making a convincing rhetorical case. I was not referring to punching them in auditoriums.

The big problem -- one that I acknowledge -- with The Weekly Standard and National Review, is that people need to be able to read, in order to absorb the message.

Tank said...

There are quite a few valid parallels between Donald Trump and George Washington.

These are interesting times.

I'm 63, I wonder if I'll live longer than the United States of America.

pm317 said...

I am curious about this.. if the angry old man Bernie will use the word "revolution" in his next rally? If someone finds out, let us know.

pm317 said...

In Indian politics, politicians are really the bottomfeeders with violent tendencies (we called them 'goondas'). I detested politics and I came here and marveled at the sophistication and civility and most of all the fairness until of course I realized that the media was in the pockets of the politicians and that they don't even make an attempt at appearing to be unbiased. And throw in the lefty loons and Obamabots ruling the country, it is going to the dogs.

Chuck said...

Good God, Trump goes back to his, "We have to expand our laws... and go much tougher than waterboarding" routine.

He got smacked down on that once; he seems to have learned nothing.

And it remains the same; Trump isn't talking about interrogation, or intelligence, or anything else other than some unspoken notion of punishment, retribution or (giving Trump way too much credit) deterrence.

Trump has already been told; he'll have no one to carry out such orders. What is Trump not getting?

pm317 said...

This is an extreme escalation of "protests".
One can protest without shutting down the other side.


BLM taught them how to do that. It was the trial run. Remember the ugly women who shouted down at the angry old man Bernie's face and shut him down.

David said...

From Meade:

"Robins are pussies. We have woodpeckers."

Woodpeckers are tweets. We have raccoons.


We had an eagle keeping watch on the branch of a tree for nearly an hour last night. Silhouette agains the sunset sky. I kid you not. I took it as a hopeful omen. All is not lost, Meade, as well you know.

buwaya puti said...

Chuck,
I have been reading the "National Review" and the "Weekly Standard" (and "Commentary", etc.) - for decades, nearly forty years for NR and Commentary.
I don't however consider that they have ever been of any use in practical politics. They have been amusing, at best, because they reached very few, and in reality those few they reached were uninfluential vis a vis the public. This applies nearly as well to the small political magazines of the left - with one difference, in that these reach academics, who in their professional capacity affect far more peoples opinions.
It's self delusion to think that ones hobby reading is somehow significant. NR is about as politically significant as " Model Railroader".

David said...

"Trump has already been told; he'll have no one to carry out such orders. What is Trump not getting?"

Apparently he did not get you to read his measured (and necessary) statement on the subject making it clear that he would respect the law and the military's obligation to follow it. (Yes, he was backing away from going over the top, which is better than you can say for the people who are comparing him to Hitler.) You want details, you get details. But it's your right to ignore them if you wish.

Amadeus 48 said...

Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? A corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. By their fruits ye shall know them.

This disruptive event is street theater staged by a coalition of far-left groups--the Chicago Teachers' Union, MoveOn, various illegal immigrant rights groups, various paid agitators for BLM and Occupy Wall Street. They have been doing things like this since Rahm was re-elected and continued his fight with the Teachers' Union. These groups are demonstrating their power by disrupting various activities of normal citizens who are largely exempt from their goals and concerns. This rally disruption is all a piece with the Black Friday shutdown of Michigan Avenue, the subsequent periodic disruptions of traffic during the morning and evening commute, and the use of the Laquan McDonald tape as a club to beat the mayor, the police and the state's attorney.

The real goal to lower morale in the institutions that have historically maintained order and to seize power in Chicago--to defang the police, to chase out or emasculate the mayor, to replace the Cook County State's Attorney with a compliant tool of the left wing of the Democrat party in next week's primary. The disruption of the Trump rally is to warn the assembled Trumpian populists that they have no power over normal life (i.e., normal opposition political activity) in the city, and that they had better stay out.

This is the fruit of 80 years of one-party mis-rule in this city. But what is going to happen here is not going to make the city better. It is going to make Chicago like Detroit.
Look out below!

David said...

NR is about as politically significant as " Model Railroader".

Ouch.

Moneyrunner said...

Don't need to work so hard Mead, Ann Coulter has done your jobs for you:
J'accuse Donald Trump”


Watching the candidacy of Donald Trump, I am continually struck by his resemblance to a man who came to power in a far-off land nearly 85 years ago, a historical epic that I had naively hoped was well buried in the past.


Consider the following:


-- Adolf Hitler held gigantic rallies, where he inspired millions with rousing speeches. Donald Trump holds gigantic rallies, where he inspires millions with rousing speeches.


-- Adolf Hitler talked about making his country great again. Donald Trump talks about making his country great again.


-- Adolf Hitler promised military victories. Donald Trump promises military victories.


-- Adolf Hitler had a loyal and overweight henchman, Hermann Goering. Donald Trump has a loyal and overweight henchman, Chris Christie.


-- Adolf Hitler blamed a specific group of immigrants for all the nation's problems (Ed: Jews weren't immigrants -- Close enough!). Donald Trump blames a specific group of immigrants for all the nation's problems.


For the rest of the spot-on comparisons: http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2016-03-09.html#read_more
And for the ultimate put-down:
-- Adolf Hitler was a teetotaler. Donald Trump is a teetotaler.

jelink said...

Imagine Voting Day, when MoveOn.org makes Trump voters run a gauntlet of hate at the polling stations.

Imagine Voting Night, when a Trump victory begins enormous riots all across "liberal" urban America.

The Trumpazoids will realize that "these a-holes have literally disarmed themselves with their gun-control stance---while we have armed ourselves not just "to the teeth", but to our wisdom teeth."

Then things will get interesting.

Michael K said...

"You seem to be willfully misreading sunsong."

"Blogger sunsong said...
Trump is a bigot, a bully, a racist, a chauvinist, a potential war criminal etc etc etc and you are surprised there are protests in Chicago?...especially after his incendiary comments about "rouging up' and sending protesters out on stretchers?"

Nope. Not a bit.

Amanda said...

Again pm317 brings up Soros. Let's not forget that George Soros has given $8 M to Hillary Clinton. But hey Hillary is calling for love, let's all vote for Hillary.

While I think shutting down someone's speech by disruption or whatever method is wrong, protest is a form of speech that the Consitution provides for and protects. And protestors should not be subject to violence either. What it boils down to is both sides not respecting the others First Amendment rights. Trump has set the tone for these rallies by condoning roughing up the protestors over and over again in every rally. Even after he shut down his own rally he condoned violence toward protestors and talked about how America needs to be "strong"( bully) again. Rubio, Cruz, Kasich, Clinton and Sanders have said Trump brought this upon himself in so many words.I can guarantee that if this protest in Chicago was done in Bernie's name, he will be denouncing the methods of shutting down free speech, even speech like Trump's that is vile, xenophobic and bigoted. He is reaping what he's sown.

Chuck said...

buwaya puti said...
Chuck,
I have been reading the "National Review" and the "Weekly Standard" (and "Commentary", etc.) - for decades, nearly forty years for NR and Commentary.
I don't however consider that they have ever been of any use in practical politics. They have been amusing, at best, because they reached very few, and in reality those few they reached were uninfluential vis a vis the public. This applies nearly as well to the small political magazines of the left - with one difference, in that these reach academics, who in their professional capacity affect far more peoples opinions.
It's self delusion to think that ones hobby reading is somehow significant. NR is about as politically significant as " Model Railroader".


If you think that, fine. Just don't anybody dare to call me -- as Drago did -- a leftist, a Clinton supporter, or a pro-BLM sympathizer.

If we are going to talk about larger-circulation media, there is the Wall Street Journal's editorial page. The largest-circulation newspaper in the country. And of course they don't much like Trump, to put it mildly.

There is conservative talk radio. And those guys and gals would do a lot better, and much more good, if they quit whining about "the establishment GOP" and spent more time bashing Soros, MoveOn and BLM.

Steve M. Galbraith said...

I'm no Trump supporter by any measure - in fact I oppose him completely - but this is just appalling news coverage.

How are the Trump supporters or Trump himself responsible for this? Bernie Sanders needs to answer for this not Trump. Yes, Trump has made some ugly comments about his supporters using force to shut down protesters. But that's not relevant here.

If the situation was reversed Trump and the other Republicans would be hammered by the news media. "Do you condemn this violence?" sort of questioning.



YoungHegelian said...

I honestly wish I could say that such attacks on the 1st Amendment rights of Trump & his supporters like last night in Chicago will stop in the future, but they won't.

The Left's tactic of shutting down their opponents by disruption has been practiced to good effect for years now on university campuses, and at basically no costs to the Left. They are now simply taking their show on the road.

This will stop when it has costs. Those "costs" can be imposed by the police or they can be imposed by the Trumpsters, but I suspect that that they will be imposed. So, at this point, the inevitable question arises "After last night, do you support some Trumpster blowing away some MoveOn clown disrupting an event?" And my answer is "What kind of ammo is he using so I can keep him supplied."

If this be fascism, let us make the most of it.

traditionalguy said...

Point of order: Alabama George Wallace was 100% pro the keeping of Jim Crow segregationist Law. He had no followers outside the KKK Dixiecrat areas of the old rural south and Indiana. He was basically counter marching against MLK, and he lost totally for his stupidity.

Seeing George Wallace support the same as NYC Trump's support is skipping all reality, other than the popularity part. Wallace was a pathetic political hack that tried to make a living off the bad guys of the To Kill a Mockingbird rural Alabamans. ..like Cruz does off the Texans.

Freder Frederson said...

Both the Sturmabteilung and Mosley's BUF black shirts were keen to stop the rallies of their opponents, disrupting them at every turn.

They stopped them with violence. Provide any evidence that these protesters are violent. Trump claimed that some of the protesters in previous incidents were "swinging" at his supporters. There is no evidence of that.

These protesters were no doubt rude, but rudeness never justifies violence.

I seem to remember Ann getting bent all out of shape when she was "assaulted" when she and Meade were annoying protesters at the Wisconsin Capitol.

pm317 said...

@Amadeus 48.. thank you for your comment for those of us trying to understand how this kind of thing can happen. So if it is about Chicago, it remains to be seen if they can pull it off in other cities. There is some hope that this is an anomaly, right?

Amanda said...

"So, at this point, the inevitable question arises "After last night, do you support some Trumpster blowing away some MoveOn clown disrupting an event?" And my answer is "What kind of ammo is he using so I can keep him supplied.""

THIS is what is the problem. What a shameful despicable disturbing thing to say. You have a right to say it, but if you do it you will be subject to the law. We are still a nation of laws and consequences.

donald said...

Well, Bernie (And Hillary) have spoken and they're cool with it, which of course is no surprise.

jelink said...

Moneyrunner, you *do* understand that Coulter's comparisons were offered as...stupid things the Establishment and the Wacko Wing of the Left will say to equate Trump with Hitler...don't you?

Chuck said...

traditionalguy said...
Point of order: Alabama George Wallace was 100% pro the keeping of Jim Crow segregationist Law. He had no followers outside the KKK Dixiecrat areas of the old rural south and Indiana. He was basically counter marching against MLK, and he lost totally for his stupidity.


Well, no. George Wallace won the Michigan Democratic primary in 1972. With lots and lots of voters from the same areas and demographics (and probably some of the very same voters) as went to Trump two weeks ago.

donald said...

Well Freder, that Gorilla that punched that kid in the face (In front of a Chicago police officer) was one. And the animal that attacked and bloodied a police officer are two.

buwaya puti said...

Omens -
Last month walking to work, there was a hawk, one of our big San Francisco red-tailed Hawks, on top of a tree. It was being dive-bombed by three ravens, of which we have so many on the south side of the city. Not unprecedented behavior, but still. A Roman Augur would have made something of it no doubt.
Last week one of these ravens landed on top of a short street sign not three yards from me, and stayed there as I walked past. These birds are bold, but not usually so bold as to let people walk past at touching distance. The same.
The worst recent omen, from the natural world, is the death of the ancient Hanoi turtle.

Amanda said...

I too would like proof that these protestors in any of the Trump rallies were violent. I did see some trying to defend themselves from the rally goers shoving, kicking and punching them.

David said...

Meade said...

There are many valid parallels of Donald J. Trump 2016 to George C. Wallace 1968.


Perhaps a few. I attended a Wallace rally in Charlottesville, Virginia in 1968 with several other fellow law students. He could not (or chose not to) get a hall in town. He held it in an open field in the nearby countryside. The crowd was sparse and tame. No protesters. My impression was of a spirited candidate before a dispirited audience.

Wallace did get 23% of the vote in Virginia. His support was concentrated in the southernmost tier of counties. He had little appeal in Charlottesville and the more populous northern part of the state.

A big difference between Trump and Wallace is that Trump is running to win. Wallace was running to see if he could put the election into the House of Representatives and gain some power and influence. He was a regional candidate attached to a dying cause. Trump is a national candidate promoting a rising cause. In addition Trump is working within the party system, while Wallace did not.

These are big differences.

Hagar said...

pm317,
It is more the other way around.
And the MSM are not owned or run by Democrats, they are Progressives; a self-identified elite that believes it can control and use the Democrats.

YoungHegelian said...

@Freder,

Trump claimed that some of the protesters in previous incidents were "swinging" at his supporters. There is no evidence of that.

Freder, are you asleep at the wheel? They fought with police, throwing bottles at them & jumping on cop cars. You want video? C'mon, Freder, can you say "Stalinist thugs"? I know you can.

@Amanda,

THIS is what is the problem. What a shameful despicable disturbing thing to say. You have a right to say it, but if you do it you will be subject to the law. We are still a nation of laws and consequences.

Strange how the laws don't seem to apply to those who routinely deny others their 1st Amendment rights. Oh, well, the revolution has it's heroes, so I guess the counter-revolution will, too.

It's just strange how the folks who are always saying how gun-loving & violent righties are just seem flabbergasted when the thought is brought up that if you poke the bear, the bear just might come at ya.

jelink said...

Ever since Barack assumed the throne, rightist paranoid fantasies about him declaring national martial law and preventing the election of his successor have been sneered at as...paranoid fantasies.

Yet Barack has openly and notoriously supported the BLM and MoveOn.org movements. And vice versa.

Makes ya think, doesn't it....

Amadeus 48 said...

pm317--
I don't know about other cities, but they have been doing it here for about a year.

Morale in city institutions is low. Look at the spike in murders here this year--119 so far vs. 488 for all of 2015. The cops are staying in their cars and just "investigating" after the fact.

I don't think the disruption would have occurred to the same degree if the rally had been held in the suburbs, but you can bet that plenty of protesters would have been bused to any location anywhere near Chicago (I suspect Althouse would have seen some of her students here--lots of students from Madison were part of the shutdown on Black Friday).

I think this is part of a nationwide effort by the far left to flex its muscles, but Chicago is an unusually fertile field for them.

traditionalguy said...

Cruz has jumped the shark. Proclaiming total falsehoods in serious tones of Dominionist authority is a Cruz Pathology that he cannot help doing anymore than a Kleptomaniac can stop Shoplifting. They both do it for the thrill of getting away with it. They don ' t steal or lie to get something, it is the thrill of duping others.

tim in vermont said...

I seem to remember Ann getting bent all out of shape when she was "assaulted" when she and Meade were annoying protesters at the Wisconsin Capitol.

Holy crap, up and down the thread lefties are rationalizing violence. This is going to end in tears.

Moneyrunner said...

I note the there are a lot of people who support the "heckler's veto."

tim in vermont said...

Fuck Cruz!

Chuck said...

David said...
"Trump has already been told; he'll have no one to carry out such orders. What is Trump not getting?"

Apparently he did not get you to read his measured (and necessary) statement on the subject making it clear that he would respect the law and the military's obligation to follow it. (Yes, he was backing away from going over the top, which is better than you can say for the people who are comparing him to Hitler.) You want details, you get details. But it's your right to ignore them if you wish


David don't you be such an ignoramus. That was my point! Trump started with his usual unhinged ranting about "worse than waterboarding." And then, as I noted and as you just wrote, Trump's handlers walked him back from that excess. That printed statement was fine. Trump, clearly, needs close adult supervision.

But this morning in Vandalia, Ohio, Trump went back to his old-style lunacy, again talking about "worse than waterboarding." As I stated -- rather clearly, I thought -- Trump seems to have learned nothing.

Amanda said...

Young Hegelian,

"Poking the bear" is protected speech, killing someone for being "poked" is illegal and you will face the consequences. That you condone such actions is telling.

David said...

Amanda said...
I too would like proof that these protestors in any of the Trump rallies were violent. I did see some trying to defend themselves from the rally goers shoving, kicking and punching them.


You would make a good NFL referee.

How the hell can you possibly know who started it from watching edited tape of a chaotic situation? (Answer: By confirming your previous beliefs.)

Overall this was a good (if perhaps rare) example of the crowd on both sides stepping back from what could have been a lot worse. Althouse is correct that the Trumpies by and large resisted provocations, and the protesters--probably because they had achieved their goal--did not raise the level of the provocation. The Chicago police performed well also.

Chuck said...

Moneyrunner said...
I note the there are a lot of people who support the "heckler's veto."


Who? Not me, I can assure you. Who do you see, supporting "the heckler's veto"?

tim in vermont said...

too would like proof that these protestors in any of the Trump rallies were violent. I did see some trying to defend themselves from the rally goers shoving, kicking and punching them.

I don't expect you to do it on this thread or anything, Amanda, but maybe you should try some mindful meditation and try to get a handle on where these thoughts justifying violence are actually coming from, and if they people putting them in your brain have other motives. This is how countries get whipped up for wars, you should seriously question why you are having these violent thoughts.

David said...

""Poking the bear" is protected speech,"

It can also be the crime of disorderly conduct. Or assault. And battery is never protected speech.

EDH said...

Cruz really hurt himself with his response blaming Trump.

Maybe irreparably.

YoungHegelian said...

@Amanda,

Poking the bear" is protected speech, killing someone for being "poked" is illegal and you will face the consequences. That you condone such actions is telling.

Do you support the systematic denial of one groups 1st Amendment rights by another group who has organized for that very purpose, as was last's night riot?

If not, then tell me what the group denied should do to regain its 1st A. rights.

If you do, then, like it or not, you're a Stalinist. I've had this conversation with more than one lefty friend in the past, Amanda, & they don't like getting called on it. Really don't like it.

Original Mike said...

"NR is about as politically significant as " Model Railroader"."

Hey! Don't diss Model Railroader.

buwaya puti said...

"Poking the bear" is the right analogy.
Althouse likes the tag "civility bullshit", and that's right, it is often used as rhetorical bullshit. But it is in fact a powerful influence on politics. Depart from "civility" and anything becomes an option. Depart from "civility" with respect to tribe, race and class, and likewise.
Trumps people seem to be just that - a tribe, race and class. They have profound, long standing grievances. They are out of patience. And they are numerous, well armed and politically influential. Insulting them is indeed "poking the bear". It seems that the lesson of prudence with respect to "poking the bear" (Trump, for instance), has not yet been learned. It's not likely to sink in this year, as the other side or sides can't help themselves.
Which is just one reason that things are going to get much more horrible.

Moneyrunner said...

I wonder if Meade can see any parallels to Sanders and Lenin. I'll start: both Sanders and Lenin advocated a revolution. Both had enthusiastic followers. Both promised free stuff that they were going to take from the rich.

Your turn.

Limited blogger said...

How many less votes will Trump get because of this? How many more votes will he get because of it?

Right. On to Winner Take all Tuesday.

Laslo Spatula said...

First the talk of 'raccoons', then George Wallace.

Are people trying to say that George Wallace may have been a teensy bit right?

I am Laslo.

Amanda said...

Young Hegelian,

No I do not support anyone shutting down anyone's else's speech as I've said several times now yesterday and today. The group who have had speech denied should continue to speak. The solution to bad speech is more speech, that goes for both sides.

Chuck said...

To all of the Cruz supporters:

I am watching the Senator in Missouri, promising that, "When I am President, we will repeal every word of ObamaCare."

Now I like Senator Cruz; I'm glad his voice is in the Senate.

But he won't repeal "every word of ObamaCare" when he is President. He doesn't stand a chance of that. Democrats in the Senate will filibuster any statutory change like that.

I bring this up (it is obviously stump-speech puffery, at a surprisingly low level) only because one of the main complaints about "the GOP establishment" is that they were elected to Congressional majorities for making that same promise, but that they deserve to get kicked out, for not fulfilling that same promise.

tim in vermont said...

Trump is the big winner. The only people who see this as a rational response to unprovoked peaceful protest are the ones who wouldn't vote for Trump on a bet.

This is how Dick Nixon won every state but Massachusetts. Violent protests that were embraced by Democrats.

Freder Frederson said...

Freder, are you asleep at the wheel? They fought with police, throwing bottles at them & jumping on cop cars. You want video? C'mon, Freder, can you say "Stalinist thugs"? I know you can.

I don't see any of the things you described on the video (one protester was wrestled to the ground and handcuffed, it is unclear why). You will need to provide another video of them fighting with police and throwing bottles.

tim in vermont said...

I bet they wrestled him to the ground and handcuffed him on account of he insulted white people in general and Trump in particular.

YoungHegelian said...

@Amanda,

The group who have had speech denied should continue to speak.

What! In the middle of a fucking riot! When your attempts to speak are constantly getting shouted out! When the people who come to shut you down are so determined that they fight with the police sent to contain them.

See, Amanda, this is your problem. You get all bent with me when I suggest this will end with [probably justified] violence, and when I ask you what to do, you come up with some pussy-ass answer like "oh, just keep talking, even in the middle of a fucking riot".

This isn't about sitting around the campfire & singing Kumbaya. There are lefty thugs who are intent on shutting down a major political candidate of a major political party. "Just keep talking" ain't gonna cut it.

Freder Frederson said...

Strange how the laws don't seem to apply to those who routinely deny others their 1st Amendment rights.

By definition, only the government can deny you your first amendment rights. A non-government actor preventing the speech of another is not violating anyone's First Amendment rights.

You would think our resident Constitutional Law professor would at least make this very important distinction clear.

Trump is the only one I have heard who wants to use the government to limit first amendment rights.

Amanda said...

Young Hegelian,
Riot? There was no riot in the building or outside of the building. There was near riot after it was announced that the rally was cancelled. Let's keep our facts straight here.

tim in vermont said...

I wonder if the lefties here ever heard of an agent provacateur,

A political organization or government may use agents provocateurs against political opponents. The provocateurs try to incite the opponent to do counterproductive or ineffective acts to foster public disdain or provide a pretext for aggression against the opponent.

Naah!

Moneyrunner said...

The Amandas of this world really don't mind shutting their opponents down via intimidation. And it's fairly easy to intimidate a crowd of middle aged families if you're able to organize a group of tough young street thugs. And it gets especially good when an elderly geezer remembers a time when - if you tried to intimidate him - he would hit you in the nose. Of course, today's girly-man isn't allowed to do that; it's politically incorrect. Amanda finds some pearls to clutch and Freder has never seen the BLM's "peaceful protests" that ended up with stores put to the torch. It's lesson well learned in Europe where the women are raped by Muslim immigrants and the men stand by.

I'm actually rather surprised that someone took a swing at one of the thugs at the Trump rally. I'm less surprised that he was in his 70s. A Meade-aged guy would know that it's better to turn his back.

David said...

YoungHegelian said...
@Amanda,

The group who have had speech denied should continue to speak.

What! In the middle of a fucking riot!


Correct. Had Trump not "postponed" the event, he would be crucified today for allowing a dangerous situation to get worse, and for provocation, Fascistic tendencies and of course silly hair.

You can't win with Amanda.

Big Mike said...

This is going to end in tears.

@tim in vermont, lefty tears primarily. They aren't nearly as tough as they think they are. And they really, truly, are trying people's patience.

Amanda said...

"By definition, only the government can deny you your first amendment rights. A non-government actor preventing the speech of another is not violating anyone's First Amendment rights"


Freder, thanks for making that legal distinction.

Moneyrunner said...

Life according to Freder: If a mob keeps you form addressing a gathering that's free speech; if the government does it, it's bad.

Michael said...

Amanda

I urged you once to learn something about Oswald Mosley and the British Union of Fascists. You are not a stupid person but you seem to be thinly educated. The BUF, like the Sturmabteilung, were alway wont to say: Riot? There was no riot....

Meade said...

"Are people trying to say that George Wallace may have been a teensy bit right?"

About segregation and racism? No.

Even George C. Wallace, late in life, disavowed the younger racist segregationist George C. Wallace of 1968. Incidentally, he also self-identified as a "born-again Christian" (like Bill Clinton and Jimi Carter) before he died.

buwaya puti said...

Chuck,
I don't think that you are any of those things.
And I have no dog in this fight. Cruz, Rubio, Trump, that's your choice, and for the purpose of shifting public policy in the directions it ought to shift (and the need for shifts is evident to any neutral observer), I can only say there is no way to tell who would be more effective as a practical matter. A study of history will show these assumptions of future performance to be uncertain at best, if not often wildly off. I am de Tocqueville, I observe and comment.

David said...

"This is how Dick Nixon won every state but Massachusetts."

Not this time. Plus there is no draft so the volunteers are the only ones at risk, or so people think.

chillblaine said...

The leftist apologists like Cheri Jacobus are pushing the idea that Trump somehow "lied" and said the police advised him to shut down the rally. This is what they're afraid of, because if this happens, it is a true 1A violation.

Amanda said...

Trump perhaps needs to ask himself what happens when he keeps "poking the bear" as Young Hegelian so aptly put it. Perhaps Trump should realize that his calls for violence toward protestors has consequences, his hateful rhetoric toward blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, and women have consequences, that his calls for torture and "opening up libel laws" to shut down the speech of others, all have consequences. He poked the bear, the bear is poking back.

YoungHegelian said...

@Freder,

Jumping on cars. I don't know this source, but it doesn't seem to be too screedy.

Bottles thrown at police from the Daily Mail.

Bay Area Guy said...

The Left doesn't believe in free speech. They believe in shutting down speech with which they disagree. They do it by mob action, supported by enablers who look the other way. They rationalize mob activity by trying demonize the speech they oppose as "hate speech."





Michael said...

Amanda

Shorter Amanda: He deserved it.

Heil! Amanda. Heil

David said...

Chuck said...

David don't you be such an ignoramus. That was my point! Trump started with his usual unhinged ranting about "worse than waterboarding." And then, as I noted and as you just wrote, Trump's handlers walked him back from that excess. That printed statement was fine. Trump, clearly, needs close adult supervision.


Glad to have given you an opportunity to clarify. But Trump seems to be influencing you. You don't do argument by insult as well as he does, but keep at it.

cubanbob said...

sunsong said...
Trump is a bigot, a bully, a racist, a chauvinist, a potential war criminal etc etc etc and you are surprised there are protests in Chicago?...especially after his incendiary comments about "rouging up' and sending protesters out on stretchers?

3/12/16, 9:34 AM

You say that as if that was bad thing. Beating the crap out of a bunch of communist provocateurs and agitators is a feature not a bug in most peoples eyes. If the Left wants to nominate Trump for President and get him elected President just doing this.

YoungHegelian said...

@Amanda,

Trump perhaps needs to ask himself what happens when he keeps "poking the bear" as Young Hegelian so aptly put it. Perhaps Trump should realize that his calls for violence toward protestors has consequences, his hateful rhetoric toward blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, and women have consequences, that his calls for torture and "opening up libel laws" to shut down the speech of others, all have consequences. He poked the bear, the bear is poking back.

And to quote Dennis the Peasant "Oh, it all comes out now, it does!"

That nasty Trump with his "wrong-thoughts". Doesn't he know what happens when you try & tell the Muzzies & minorities to toe the line, they get all upset. And we don't want to aggravate them, because we all now what happens -- they stop murdering each other & start murdering us!

Welcome to the Party, comrade!

virgil xenophon said...

All you defenders of the lefty "protesters" should traipse on over to Drudge and hit on his links to (a) the vid of protesters violently stopping an ambulance on the xway near the rally from reaching a nearby hosp until the police forcibly intervened and (b) pics of protesters wearing t-shirts spray-painted with "Vote for Trump and you get jumped." All upstanding citizens of the Republic no doubt..

Amanda said...

"The leftist apologists like Cheri Jacobus are pushing the idea that Trump somehow "lied" and said the police advised him to shut down the rally. This is what they're afraid of, because if this happens, it is a true 1A violation."

Trump lied about police involvment in decision to shut down rally.

Interesting.

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