April 20, 2015

"Cindy Archer, one of the lead architects of Wisconsin’s Act 10... was jolted awake by yelling, loud pounding at the door, and her dogs’ frantic barking."

"The entire house — the windows and walls — was shaking. She looked outside to see up to a dozen police officers, yelling to open the door. They were carrying a battering ram. She wasn’t dressed, but she started to run toward the door, her body in full view of the police. Some yelled at her to grab some clothes, others yelled for her to open the door. 'I was so afraid,' she says. 'I did not know what to do.'... It was indeed a home invasion, but the people who were pouring in were Wisconsin law-enforcement officers. Armed, uniformed police swarmed into the house. Plainclothes investigators cornered her and her newly awakened family. Soon, state officials were seizing the family’s personal property, including each person’s computer and smartphone, filled with the most intimate family information...."

From "Wisconsin’s Shame: 'I Thought It Was a Home Invasion.'"

134 comments:

richard mcenroe said...

"Actions of a Reasonable Man, or, Garage in Heaven"...

http://tinyurl.com/njbw5g4

garage mahal said...

This Cindy Archer?

“Consider yourself now in the ‘inner circle’. :) I use this private account quite a bit to communicate with SKW (short for Scott Walker) and (Walker chief of staff Tom) Nardelli,” Archer wrote to Rindfleisch. “You should be sure you check it throughout the day.”

harrogate said...

I'm sure it all happened exactly this way!!

dreams said...

Because the end justfies the means, the liberal mindset.

"And so, almost five years after their secret beginning, the John Doe proceedings are nearly dead — on “life support,” according to one Wisconsin pundit — but incalculable damage has been done, to families, to activist organizations, to the First Amendment, and to the rule of law itself.

In international law, the Western world has become familiar with a concept called “lawfare,” a process whereby rogue regimes or organizations abuse legal doctrines and processes to accomplish through sheer harassment and attrition what can’t be accomplished through legitimate diplomatic means. The Palestinian Authority and its defenders have become adept at lawfare, putting Israel under increasing pressure before the U.N. and other international bodies."

Gabriel said...

They can always make you take the ride.

Maybe you'll win in court, but in the meantime the SWAT team has shot your dogs and burned your toddler's face off. And they have immunity because they are following orders.

Meanwhile fascists like garage mahal caper and applaud, because it never occurs to them that they might be on the receiving end of it one day.

Michael The Magnificent said...

So Walker aide Cindy Archer, Walker chief of staff Tom Nardelli, Walker aide Rindfleisch, and Scott Walker are communicating using private email accounts. So what? They are allowed to communicate with each other using personal email accounts for unofficial business, like campaigning.

Gabriel said...

@garage mahal:This Cindy Archer?

Didn't you apply the opposite logic to Eric Garner and Mike Brown?

Why yes, yes you did. You said it didn't matter what they'd done was against the law, the amount of force was excessive.

Because you are a fascist, all that matter is to you is that it happen to your enemies and not your friends.

You don't care if anyone's kids had been killed, or their faces burned off, as SWAT teams have done, because she emailed Scott Walker.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

garage, just so you're cool with the same sort of behavior directed at liberals when President Cruz takes office. I'm sure we conservatives can find something to persecute you for. You're probably guilty of something.

MadisonMan said...

Never let the Police in your house. Ever.

If they knock on the door, tell them to go away. If they keep knocking, call 911 to report harassment. Get it all on record.

Garage, even Republicans deserve far better than this. Admit that.

Gabriel said...

@Madison Man:Never let the Police in your house. Ever.

Never call the police unless you are willing to get someone killed over it.

Garage, even Republicans deserve far better than this. Admit that.

You're wasting your time. Who, whom is all he cares about. Four legs good, two legs bad.

If anything is less worth risking people's lives over than the drug war, campaign finance violations would have to be near the top of the list, somewhere around food handler cards and jaywalking.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

So this is the famous "Wisconsin Idea"? How proud you all must be.

tim in vermont said...

Wow, it's the real garage too, not that he isn't beyond parody at this stage.

What comes after the show trial garage?

tim in vermont said...

I'm sure it all happened exactly this way!

I guess you have your hatred as proof that it didn't!

Marty Keller said...

Like a moth to flame, Garage arises to defend the fascists in the name of "because, Walker"!

RecChief said...

wow that paragraph reads like something Solzhenitsyn wrote.

Why can't people like Garage learn that "The first Circle" and "Gulag archipelago" aren't how-to books?

Gahrie said...

Meanwhile fascists like garage mahal caper and applaud, because it never occurs to them that they might be on the receiving end of it one day.

I agree with you. However one thing I have never understood...if Walker was evil and corrupt as Garage thinks he is, you would think that people like Garage would be a little more afraid to talk shit about him.

pogo101 said...

garage mahal said...

This Hillary Clinton?

Oh, wait, no he didn't.

Coupe said...

Who cares.

Bottom line always keep your information encrypted on Google Drive. Don't leave anything for cops and crooks on your data devices.

The right to remain silent, means just that. Shut your trap until you have an attorney.

Most people don't know squat about law, but the cops do. Don't make their case for them, even if they lock you up.

The food is fine in jail. Don't fear it, become one with it. A lot of nice people are in jail.

Go put some clothes on.

tim in vermont said...

This from the party that had Rick Perry arrested for pressuring a drunk driver who abused her position with the arresting officer to resign with his legitimate constitutional power as governor.

John Lynch said...

I don't see how not being allowed to call a lawyer is constitutional.

Mark O said...

Frightening. Fascist. Authoritarian. Seemingly unprecedented in America.

We've traded too many liberties for too little security after 9-11.

Disbarment. Prison. Impeachment.

Mike Sylwester said...

What I can't figure out is, why don't "liberals" try to maintain some intellectual dignity about this issue. It's not too late for them to join in the condemnation of these Gestapo tactics.

We all should be thankful for the American Civil Liberties Union, which surely is preparing energetic legal actions.

Michael K said...

"I'm sure it all happened exactly this way!!"

So am I.

Michael K said...

"Meanwhile fascists like garage mahal caper and applaud, because it never occurs to them that they might be on the receiving end of it one day."

Don't forget harrogate.

RecChief said...

What I can't figure out is, why don't "liberals" try to maintain some intellectual dignity about this issue

because they have no intellectual dignity (or consistency) beyond "I won."

It's about power.

Michael K said...

"This from the party that had Rick Perry arrested for pressuring a drunk driver who abused her position with the arresting officer to resign with his legitimate constitutional power as governor."

Don't forget Tom DeLay who was pursued by Ronnie Earle, the Travis County DA and who wrecked DeLay's career only to have all charges dismissed.

Ted Stevens could not be reached form comment.

Mussolini would understand what happened.

EDH said...

On the bright side, conservatives can now decry actual "Gestapo tactics" with a straight face.

Take that, Occupy Wall Street.

richard mcenroe said...

Gabriel, you don't get it. People like Garage or Madison Man or ARM DON'T CARE if someone gets killed in one of these incidents.

In fact, if that happened they'd probably rush to justify it by shouting "Ferguson" or some similar misdirection.

Rusty said...

"You got a warrant?"

"No."

"Piss off."

Rusty said...

Blogger harrogate said...
I'm sure it all happened exactly this way!!


If it didn't it wouldn't be news, would it?

Mike said...

I'm starting come around to the idea of tar and feathers for these abusive "public servants" like Chisholm. Shame don't do a damn thing to a capital D Democrat.

dhagood said...

@richard macenroe: there is no reason to tarnish madisonman with the same brush used for garage and his ilk. while madisonman is a liberal he has comported himself on this blog with dignity, reasonableness, and integrity for over a decade. he comes across as a thoroughly decent fellow and i'd happily buy him a beer and chew the fat some sleepy afternoon.

Big Mike said...

Wisconsin's liberal Democrats should be humiliated and ashamed. However based on the comment submitted by garage, apparently they aren't.

They must all be sociopaths.

Jason said...

Scratch a liberal, you will find a fascist.

Every time.

harrogate said...

Is this Reported nowhere except National Review written by David French? And people here are just treating this as "news"?

David Begley said...

Wow. Just finished the National Review story. I had no idea it was that bad and that the Badger State was also a Police State.

But the Left will use this with a one sentence throwaway line that there was " trouble" with Walkers' associates. Ergo Walker vaguely guilty by association.

richard mcenroe said...

Lenin had a name for dignified liberals: useful idiots.

richard mcenroe said...
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richard mcenroe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TosaGuy said...

Harro

This ran in the Wall Street journal months ago and so what if it is national review. This is shocking even if only half of it is true.

Crimso said...

"Maybe you'll win in court, but in the meantime the SWAT team has shot your dogs and burned your toddler's face off. And they have immunity because they are following orders."

Screw court. No immunity short of divine intervention would protect them if they did this to me. I would make the rubble bounce. And I'd have plenty of help.

"I don't see how not being allowed to call a lawyer is constitutional."

I've been wondering about that as well. Can one of the lawyer people here clarify whether the police can enforce such a command (I know they can SAY anything they want). If not, why are the police involved not being rounded up? If they are that out of control, perhaps the National Guard can restore order.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

As long as the jackboot isn't on the other foot garage finds such treatment hunky dory.

AReasonableMan said...

It's good to see that the law and order types are finally coming to the party on police behavior. Shame it took so long.

Katrina said...

Blogger harrogate said...
"Is this Reported nowhere except National Review written by David French?"

Harrogate doesn't trust NR as a source. It's not trustworthy, like Rolling Stone and Brian Williams are.

Todd Roberson said...

I'm thinking there is some serious hyperbole in this story.

If this is indeed true I'm amazed there isn't a giant sucking sound audible as every lawyer in America tries to rush to the front door of this woman. Note: woman. There's a harassment suit here if anywhere.

... If true ... Which I doubt ...

Michael K said...

harrogate is shocked !

"Is this Reported nowhere except National Review written by David French? And people here are just treating this as "news"?"

You were expecting it in the NY Times, maybe ?

Let's see your alternative facts. Were you there, perhaps ? In uniform?

Rick said...

"AReasonableMan said...
It's good to see that the law and order types are finally coming to the party on police behavior. Shame it took so long."

It takes a special kind of person to read that story and think "how can I spin this into an attack on conservatives". And special is not reasonable.

Katrina said...

"It takes a special kind of person to read that story and think "how can I spin this into an attack on conservatives". And special is not reasonable."

Madison Man is the only honorable liberal who comments here.

AReasonableMan said...

First they came for the black men, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a black man.

Then they came for the poor, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not poor.

Then they came for the drug users, and I did not speak out—
Because I only drink and smoke.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Big Mike said...

@Unreasonable man, yes, you are a sociopath.

Katrina said...

Todd Roberson said...
I'm thinking there is some serious hyperbole in this story.

I could be wrong (and unlike leftists, if I am I will admit it), but I'll bet NR vetted this story very carefully before publishing it.

Conservative media outlets have to stay honest because, unlike their left-wing counterparts, they are held accountable for errors.

Also, after what I've seen and read over the past 5 years, I think Wisconsin leftists are capable of any slimy trick in the book. This is not at all difficult for me to believe.

Todd Roberson said...

Katrina -

"Slimy tricks" are one thing ... Breaking down people's doors and telling them can't call lawyers, burning the faces off their kids, walking into houses without warrants ...

A little tough to believe.

I'm sure there's an element if truth here. All I'm saying is there might be a little dramatic embellishment at work where.

Maybe the article would be a little more believable with some words from the other side of the story?

Big Mike said...

@Todd, if you think there is another side to the story, go get it and put it out there.

richard mcenroe said...

A Reasonable Man: First they came for the black men, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a black man...but I had been busy voting for the party that sold them into slavery, then chained them a second time with Jim Crow, then a third time with a Great Society that destroyed their families, their churches and their communities with the change from their pockets buying black votes.

Then they came for the poor, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not poor...but I voted for the party that held them in poverty for a vain, dilletantish President's naive economic experiments for the length of the Great Depression, then chained them again for the benefit of corrupt union bosses who barred their paths to decent employment as their hid their own corruption, racism and greed behind talk of "seniority", "job security", and "the dignity of the working man".

Then they came for the drug users, and I did not speak out—
Because I only drink and smoke...until my party realized how much tax revenue we could squeeze out of pot smokers to line their own pockets.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Because you were too busy shouting accusations at other people while pointing into your own mirror.

Patrick said...

They came for the conservatives first, ARM

Todd Roberson said...

@Big Mike -

Good idea. Except I'm not a journalist and would do a poor job. I'm a reader. And critical when things seem a little over the top on either side of the argument.

I don't read National Review much because I find their claims to be a little one-sided ... Much like those of the Huffington Post.

Both pubs seem to me to be lacking a corroborative approach (inverted triangle?).

But again, I'm not a journalist, so what do I know?

FedkaTheConvict said...

>>"Slimy tricks" are one thing ... Breaking down people's doors and telling them can't call lawyers, burning the faces off their kids, walking into houses without warrants ...<<

I don't know anyone targeted in the John Doe investigations who had their kid(s) face burned.

The investigators had subpoenas and warrants signed by the supervising judge - Barbara Kluka, a retired judge from Kenosha. And under the John Doe statute, a target of an investigation can be prosecuted for criminal contempt of court for contacting a lawyer or otherwise discussing the investigation.

Katrina said...

richard mcenroe said...
Gabriel, you don't get it. People like Garage or Madison Man or ARM DON'T CARE if someone gets killed in one of these incidents.

In fact, if that happened they'd probably rush to justify it by shouting "Ferguson" or some similar misdirection.

4/20/15, 7:05 PM

Well, you called that shot, didn't you? But then, I can't give you too much credit, Richard, since ARM is boringly predictable.

MayBee said...

And under the John Doe statute, a target of an investigation can be prosecuted for criminal contempt of court for contacting a lawyer or otherwise discussing the investigation.

Yeah,that's one of those things where you see why a government would want such a statute, but should never ever allow such a statute.

LindaH. said...

Cindy Archer is a lesbian. I wonder if Walker would attend her wedding?

Katrina said...

Todd wrote: "Breaking down people's doors and telling them can't call lawyers, burning the faces off their kids, walking into houses without warrants ..."

It was Gabriel who made the comment about burning the faces off kids, not NR.

If you want to critique the article, that's fine, but it might behoove you to distinguish between what is actually in the story and a poster written by an Althouse commenter.

AReasonableMan said...

Don't understand all the venom directed at the liberals and this one poor moderate. This could be a beautiful Kumbaya moment. After decades of listening to the right rationalize every conceivable abuse of police power we have finally reached a point where even you guys can see that there might be a problem.

Better late than never, I always say.

MisterBuddwing said...

After decades of listening to the right rationalize every conceivable abuse of police power we have finally reached a point where even you guys can see that there might be a problem.

Speaking from the mushy middle: What do YOU think about this incident? (I for one find it extremely appalling.)

Sofa King said...

This could be a beautiful Kumbaya moment. After decades of listening to the right rationalize every conceivable abuse of police power we have finally reached a point where even you guys can see that there might be a problem.


That's so absurdly false as to be laugh-out-loud funny.

Gabriel said...

@FedkatheConvict:I don't know anyone targeted in the John Doe investigations who had their kid(s) face burned.

No, they didn't. But SWAT teams have done that.

When you send a SWAT team to a persons house there is high probability someone will get hurt or killed. It is not a joke or a game.

And they frequently shoot the family's dogs.

The investigators had subpoenas and warrants signed by the supervising judge - Barbara Kluka, a retired judge from Kenosha. And under the John Doe statute, a target of an investigation can be prosecuted for criminal contempt of court for contacting a lawyer or otherwise discussing the investigation.

"Legal" doesn't mean "moral" or "constitutional". Jim Crow laws were legal, and so were the Nuremberg Laws (not to Godwin or anything).

Gabriel said...

@ARM:After decades of listening to the right rationalize every conceivable abuse of police power we have finally reached a point where even you guys can see that there might be a problem.

War on Drugs is played by Team Blue just as hard as Team Red.

Why is your boy Obama giving military equipment to cops?

AReasonableMan said...

Less colored depiction of the raid here, with a nice picture that would not have been out of place in Andrew Sullivan's View From Your Window contest.

SteveR said...

You would think that ARM, harrogate, and garage, et al would know that their attempts to rebut or discredit these types of stories only makes them more believable, not less.

Zedediah Grimm said...

Maybe this will clear up the "face burning off" confusion.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-toddler-injured-swat-grenade-faces-1m-medical/story?id=27671521

It happened in Georgia, not Wisconsin, when a SWAT team, much like the one described in the above story, served a warrant on the wrong house and threw a flash-bang into an infant's crib.

Unfortunately the tyke was occupying said crib at the time and was too stupid to throw it back at the renegade SWATters before it blew up in his face.

I bet you believe every word of this one without a second thought. I mean it was reported by ABC/CNN/NBC and a bunch of the other "very serious" news outlets and we all know how they are bound to tell the whole truth right?

Show me on the doll where National Review and the Wall Street Journal touched you.

I need to stay away from the interwebs for a while. The stupid, the perpetually buthurt, the truthers, the partisans, the SJWs and assorted other professional outraged idiots are clogging up the tubes and slowing down my porn downloads. Ya'll have fun while i'm gone though. Happy Trails!!!!

chillblaine said...

Is a John Doe investigation considered due process, or an example of "show me the man, I'll show you the crime?"

All will be well when Hillary is Chairwoman, er, President. Women never abuse authority.

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: " After decades of listening to the right rationalize every conceivable abuse of police power we have finally reached a point where even you guys can see that there might be a problem."

How rich is the above coming from a self-admitted volunteer in service to a communist totalitarian dictatorship?

Birches said...

Oh brother.

There has been plenty of back and forth on the state of police on these boards. Michael Brown might not have garnered much sympathy, but Eric Garner sure did. And then there was the guy from St. Paul who was arrested for picking up his kid from daycare. There was a lot of sympathy for him as well.

Michael K said...

"First they came for the black men, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a black man."

ARM, I think you are reasonably sane. Surely you know that the black killings are 95% by other blacks.

I am not a drug warrior and think most except cocaine should be legal. And, of course, the meth derivatives that no one knows the formula for.

There has been a lot of concern about police power from the libertarian right, where I am. The hysteria about Ferguson is pure bullshit but the small bureaucracy abuses are a real issue. It's a shame that blacks have lost the goodwill of whites through following the advice of Sharpton, et al.

Michael K said...

"Less colored depiction of the raid here, with a nice picture"

It didn't work, ARM.

Katrina said...

"Michael Brown might not have garnered much sympathy, but Eric Garner sure did"

That's true, but it doesn't fit ARM's Narrative: Liberal = Good!! Conservative = Bad!!

Don't go confusing ARM with nuance and stuff. You'll make his head hurt.

Crimso said...

"And under the John Doe statute, a target of an investigation can be prosecuted for criminal contempt of court for contacting a lawyer or otherwise discussing the investigation."

Althouse, is this statute clearly Constitutional, clearly unConstitutional, or in a gray area? I find it difficult to believe that if you are being investigated by law enforcement you are prevented from seeking legal counsel. Very, very difficult.

Alex said...

garage literally splooged himself when he heard that a pro-Scott Walker Republican got their door bashed down, Stasi-style.

He was like ugh-ugh-ugh, YEAH!!!

Alex said...

Battering down doors, a treatment usually reserved for suspected meth-labs or gangsters.

Note to Wisconsin Democrats - never go full retard.

You just went full retard.

richard mcenroe said...

Nobody's asking any questions about the probable involvement of the police union in the Wisconsin John Doe raids. You know they cherry-picked good union cops who wouldn't ask any questions, or run to the press... or might even want to rough up a few Republicans.

Saint Croix said...

And under the John Doe statute, a target of an investigation can be prosecuted for criminal contempt of court for contacting a lawyer

That's unconstitutional on so many levels. Bizarre.

Marshal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rick said...

"AReasonableMan said...
This could be a beautiful Kumbaya moment"

But instead truly vile members of the left chose to make a cheap political attack instead, then blamed others for their choice.

Fen said...

What I can't figure out is, why don't "liberals" try to maintain some intellectual dignity about this issue. It's not too late for them to join in the condemnation of these Gestapo tactics.

Liberals are busy prepping another little online Kristallnacht for the next pizza shop that doesn't cheer gay weddings.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I don't see how not being allowed to call a lawyer is constitutional."

-- I THINK that if the police think she is trying to destroy evidence or harm them, they can deny her that right until they secure the evidence/the area. I THINK.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
"Less colored depiction of the raid here, with a nice picture"

It didn't work, ARM.


Try this. It is a shame you can't edit posts to fix these problems and typos.

Matthew Sablan said...

If the victims of John Doe investigations can't talk about it, neither should the FBI or cops involved. Even the JS Online has me thinking there's some serious abuse of power going on.

I also don't think I saw anything contradictory. The reporter for JS talked to people outside and the cops; the National Review talked to the victim.

Matthew Sablan said...

The two reports agree on roughly the number of invaders/law enforcement people involved.

Matthew Sablan said...

... Wow, I didn't realize that the court had tried to smother the Club for Growth as hard as it did. I wouldn't stand for that sort of abuse of power. Wisconsin needs to drain the swamp of its unethical public servants, probably more so than most state governments.

Matthew Sablan said...

Archer didn't reply to the story; National Review explains why. She was threatened if she dare spoke to reporters.

Rusty said...

The usual suspects show up and utterly beclown themselves.


At least we'll know who will be meeting the trains.

AReasonableMan said...

Rusty said...
At least we'll know who will be meeting the trains.


This is pathetic. There have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of home invasions by cops. She wasn't killed, her kid's face wasn't burnt off and her dog is still alive - she's luckier than many. But, because she is some minor political apparatchik, to whom Scott Walker gave a public service sinecure, now we live in Nazi Germany.

Grow up. Try to show at least the semblance of consistency.

Unknown said...

---There have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of home invasions by cops.

In tolitarian unreasonable world, home invasions of drug dealers, meth labs and gang hangouts are just like invasions of family homes of people who are politically active. In particular, the police should use the same body armor, early morning kickoff times, silencing and and door breaching battery rams. Of note, gang-bangers can call their lawyers, but political activists can’t.

Because ...everything for the state, nothing outside the state.

Austin Hendrix said...

There is no point in addressing ARM or those like them. It is better to use them and their posts to explain what evil looks like. They will not be dissuaded, and they are evil. In their corruption, they are incapable of even the smallest kindness or acknowledgement of the humanity of those with whom they disagree. They are the hate-fueled attendees of the Wellstone funeral, and they are the ugliest side of humanity. They should be held up to scorn and ridicule.

AReasonableMan said...

So people not like you being abused by the cops don't count?

First they came for the black men, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a black man.

Then they came for the poor, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not poor.

Then they came for the drug users, and I did not speak out—
Because I only drink and smoke.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


Rusty said...

AReasonableMan said...
Rusty said...
At least we'll know who will be meeting the trains.

This is pathetic. There have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of home invasions by cops. She wasn't killed, her kid's face wasn't burnt off and her dog is still alive - she's luckier than many. But, because she is some minor political apparatchik, to whom Scott Walker gave a public service sinecure, now we live in Nazi Germany.

Grow up. Try to show at least the semblance of consistency.

I do. Every day.

How does that big red rubber nose feel, comrade?

Unknown said...

unreasonable meltdown said…

-----So people not like you being abused by the cops don't count?

First they came for the black men, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a black man.-----


In unreasonable man’s fascist world there is no such thing as reverence for a law-abiding citizens and the rule of law as opposed to the predatory criminals we all suffer from.

The 2 year old shot on her grandfather’s lap by a gang-banger is just the same as the gangbanger. In fact in unreasonable’s world we care more about the gang-banger because they help build our political power.

Rule of law, it was a great concept. For unreasonable we have rule of jackboots.



AReasonableMan said...

The hysterical tone of most of the posts here indicates that most of you pay no attention to what is staring you in the face, police and prosecutorial tactics are out of control.

Unknown said...

----what is staring you in the face, police and prosecutorial tactics are out of control.


There could be reasonable discussion about 'war on drugs' and militarization of police. But in your case is it complacent government-worship and identification with the state that prevents you from seeing that unloosing police powers against political opponents is a dangerous extension of those tactics.

Easy to define drug offenses, gang shootings.. how do you identify political speech collusion offenses?

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, over at National Review Kevin Williamson raises an interesting legal point: "Question for the lawyers here: Isn’t this a case for the Civil Rights Act of 1871, a.k.a. the Klan Act? That act forbids any state or local authority acting under color of law from depriving U.S. citizens of their civil rights under federal law."

Your opinion as a Constitutional Law professor would be welcome. And, frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing Wisconsin Democrats being prosecuted under anti-Klan legislation. Kicking down the doors of your political opponents is certainly reminiscent of the KKK.

Big Mike said...

@Unreasonable man, an hour ago you posted something that actually made sense. Yes, the police are out of control. We've already had incidents where innocent people have been killed by no-knock raids that went to the wrong address or were based on bogus information. We've had prosecutors withhold exculpatory evidence that by law they were supposed to share with the defense. People that the prosecutors knew beyond a shadow of doubt were innocent have served long terms, sometimes on death row. The late, unlamented, Senator Herman Talmadge once bragged about getting a black man sentenced to death for a clear-cut case of self defense against a white attacker.

Even so, the Wisconsin raids are in a different, more nasty, category because they demonstrate an effort by an out-of-control legal system to stifle basic rights guaranteed to us in the Bill of Rights.

Gabriel said...

@ARM: As always, you come back to "Who, whom"? That's all you care about.

And you're not ashamed to lie about the commenters here, almost all of whom opposed the actions of the police against Eric Garner, saying that they didn't know or didn't care about this until just now.

You have not one word of condemnation for these actions that you'd be screaming about if they happened to people you approve of--all you've done is try to minimize it, excuse it, and then blame the victims for the supposed lack of concern of "conservatives".

You didn't even bother to read the actual article--it wasn't just one person this happened to in connection with Act 10.

The BubFather said...

I've got no background in the law....but hopefully a bit of common sense. AReasonableMan above talks about the legality of the search because of court issued subpeonas and warrants and then speaks of hundreds if not thousands of searches by police of drug lords etc.

Here's where I'm confused. Going to Archer's house armed to the teeth, battering rams in hand, can't call a lawyer....when compared to a drug house raid.....what is the police protocol for a political arrest or search. When a Bear Stearns banker in Illinois was arrested at his home a few years back for trying to rig healthcare certificates of need, did the police arrive in full armor?

What did the police expect of Eric O'Keefe, Archer or others when knocking on the door to serve notice they were under investigation in a John Doe probe? It (the armor, battering rams, etc.) all feels horribly overdone and unnecessary. These aren't typically gun toting criminals. There may have been criminal activity, but by comparison to white collar crimes suggested in the Doe probe, will someone on the left at least acknowledge this appears to be overly heavy handed? No mention of even why they were there? Just sit down and shut up while we search your home? Godwinian at some level.....yes?

Shanna said...

And under the John Doe statute, a target of an investigation can be prosecuted for criminal contempt of court for contacting a lawyer or otherwise discussing the investigation.

How in the HELL is that legal???

What are you doing in Wisconsin?

tim in vermont said...

This is just business as usual for politically "moderate" and "reasonable" people. When you can't win elections, you use whatever power you have to go after your opponent. It's just common sense. If the FBI hadn't committed misconduct, which was admitted and never punished, to destroy Ted Stevens' Senate career, we would nave have gotten Obamacare.

Yeesh you guys! How many times do we have to explain about the omelettes and the eggs?

tim in vermont said...

BTW, ARM's posted story corroborates many details of the NRO story, and contradicts none.

No comments were made to the press because of the threats made. Of course the story didn't say that because Archer did not comment, which, as we later found out, was due to the threats.

It was a nice detail how her neighbor sold her out to the FBI.

And what is the FBI doing here? Is this the same anti-Republican goon squad that went after Stevens?

Todd said...

Isn't it nice how the FBI had plenty of time for this but no time at all to investigate the Obama donation website that had all of that pesky restriction logic turned off?

Dr.D said...

Mike said, "Shame don't do a damn thing to a capital D Democrat."

The reason that you cannot shame a Democrat is that this is their very essence. They are SHAME; they live SHAME; they breath and eat SHAME. Shame and Democrat are synonyms.

gerry said...

Garage Mahal supports terror to suppress free speech. What an asshole.

Headless Blogger said...

Can someone confirm that Judge Kluka was appointed to oversee John Doe 2 by Shirley Abrahamson?

Very telling, if so.

AReasonableMan said...

What I find hypocritical here is that a significant fraction of all the other people who suffered a home invasion by the police were actually innocent. In many instances the police were at the wrong address. But, you want to dismiss all these people as unimportant and advance this one person as a unique case.

Why? She may well have been guilty of something. She was given a government sinecure for some reason. No one has ever given me one. This assumption that the little people, the poor people are unimportant but 'people like me' deserve every consideration undermines the credibility of law enforcement and government. At least she is not dead, her dog is not dead and her kids still have their faces. That is no small consideration given the police force we currently have.

Todd said...

AReasonableMan said...
What I find hypocritical here is that a significant fraction of all the other people who suffered a home invasion by the police were actually innocent. In many instances the police were at the wrong address. But, you want to dismiss all these people as unimportant and advance this one person as a unique case.
4/21/15, 12:36 PM


Really? Who here does that? That is quite the tall strawman you built there. Did you do it all by yourself or did Garage and others pitch in?

I don't think anyone here doubts that the police are becoming far too para-military in tactics and equipment. No-knocks should be the last resort and are not given the judicial scrutiny that they deserve. There should be a price to pay for a botched raid (botched as in wrong address, excessive force, etc. not as in someone got hurt during a legitimate raid).

Being a policeman is a very difficult job, one that I would not do but these people did pick to do that job and as such, they need to take the risks that are associated with it. I will be honest, I lost a lot of respect for that occupation when the "rules" changed whereas protecting the citizens is no longer their number one priority. Whereas the police do not have an "obligation" to protect me. It is still a difficult job that I would not do but if you are going to do it, then do it. If you want to join the Army, than join the Army. That ain't this.

Gabriel said...

@ARM:But, you want to dismiss all these people as unimportant and advance this one person as a unique case.

a) No one dismissed other incidents as "unimportant". Leanr to read. Quote another commenter here saying that thing or retract.

b) It's not "this one person". Many people were caught up in the Act 10 investigation and more than one person were raided by SWAT team and given gag orders. Learn to read.

Retract your lies and learn to read or shut up. Garage had the decency to shut up.

Gabriel said...

@ARM:this one person

"For the family of “Rachel”..."

"Cindy Archer..."

"The investigations exploded into the open with a coordinated series of raids on October 3, 2013. These were home invasions, including those described above. "

You are such a tool. You don't even bother to RTFA before declaring it all unworthy of discussing.

Quit lying and misrepresenting commenters and making stuff up, engage the actual topic under discussion, or STFU and GTFO.

You are making yourself look worse and worse. Quit digging. Quite while you're behind. Pick your cliche.

Gabriel said...

@ARM: this one person

"“Devastating” is how Anne describes the impact on her family. “Life-changing,” she says. “All in terrible ways.”

O’Keefe, who has been in contact with multiple targeted families, says, “Every family I know of that endured a home raid has been shaken to its core, and the fate of marriages and families still hangs in the balance in some cases.”"

Learn to read, or STFU and GTFO.

Rick said...

" AReasonableMan said...
Grow up. Try to show at least the semblance of consistency."

Says the person who attacks the victims of militaristic police tactics when they disagree with his politics - even while baselessly accusing others of doing the same thing.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
Says the person who attacks the victims of militaristic police tactics when they disagree with his politics - even while baselessly accusing others of doing the same thing.


I am not attacking her. I sympathize, now she knows what it is like to be poor.

Gabriel said...

@ARM: Retract your earlier lies or shut up.

Todd said...

AReasonableMan said...
Rick said...
Says the person who attacks the victims of militaristic police tactics when they disagree with his politics - even while baselessly accusing others of doing the same thing.

I am not attacking her. I sympathize, now she knows what it is like to be poor.

4/21/15, 2:51 PM


So in your mind, the police just randomly walk through poor areas kicking in doors just for shits and giggles? They are not [you know] responding to some sort of incident?

I completely agree that the cops have forgotten that they are cops and not Navy seals but to make it a poor / rich thing is stretching this past the breaking point.

Sometimes cops have a very real expectation of extreme violence like when entering known drug houses. In those situations using SWAT teams is more prudent but that should not be their default mode of operations and it seems that they are moving more in that direction every day. The fact that the more violent confrontations occur in the poorer areas can not be discounted as a cause of some of the disparity between poorer areas and richer areas. Don't like it? Do better and move but that is outside of this discussion concerning the militarization of the police.

Livermoron said...

ARM, you lying asshole.
Point to one comment of yours here that shows 'sympathy' for her.
Where is your consistency, fascist?

Your insipidly ignorant and glib comments and responses to comments only reveal your paucity of any real moral compass.

That a fascist such as you describes themselves as 'reasonable' reeks of Goebbels.

The BubFather said...

AReasonableMan seems to try to get people to rise to the bait. So only poor people are subject to police kicking in their doors? I think if you took a poll of cops, they'd say that's pretty much bullshit. The typical raids for them involve drug houses. Now if you want to suggest those are poor people, we can have a really interesting discussion. But I think you'd have to suspend disbelief to suggest we might bite at the 'only poor people' are subject to the police kicking in their doors, so these political types can now understand how the poor must feel? Hardly sounds logical or reasonable (see what I did there AReasonableMan?).

And as for the others, Livermoron, Unknown or Fen (among others) references to Gestapo, Nazis, Jackbooted types, this might sound like you are all honoring Mike Godwin a bit too much, but I'm not so sure. As I wrote earlier, the need for the police to act as though they are dealing with drug lords rather than political nerds and wonks seems a bit overdone don't you think AReasonableMan?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

ARM said...I sympathize, now she knows what it is like to be poor.

No, those poor could at least get Al Sharpton to give them some screen time, these people are legally barred from publically discussing what happened at all. Even to their own lawyers. Rule of law my ass.

Rusty said...

Remember. "Swatting" is a tool of the left.

Moneyrunner said...

Does anyone wonder how garage got a copy of a private individual's e-mail?

Moneyrunner said...

Madison Man, that part about not allowing the cops in your house. How does that work when they have battering rams? I'm genuinely curious.

Moneyrunner said...

harrogate, you may want to check the newspaper reports of these raids. They corroborate what happened ... from the perspective of the cops.

Moneyrunner said...

Tyrone S, the liberal scum really are not worried. They are the Nazis; the mafia, the secret police. Republicans are as scary are Presbyterians at prayer. They know that if they lose the power to sic the cops on their opponents, unless the ones taking power are even more to the Left than they, they have noting to fear.

Moneyrunner said...

This is what happens when academic political activity is turned loose on the community.

We thought that until now, the only people who got a kangaroo court were innocent young men accused by radical feminists. You would be wrong. The process is the punishment. And our hostess is conflicted.

Rick said...

AReasonableMan said...
Rick said...
Says the person who attacks the victims of militaristic police tactics when they disagree with his politics - even while baselessly accusing others of doing the same thing.

I am not attacking her. I sympathize, now she knows what it is like to be poor.


ARM claims that other people not criticizing police in such circumstances is supporting the police tactics. Yet when he does the same thing somehow he is sympathizing with the victims rather than supporting the police. It's an amazing world where such people self-identify as "moderates".

Firecapt said...

Maybe us out-of-staters should boycott Wisconsin until they straighten this out.

Rusty said...

Moneyrunner said...
Madison Man, that part about not allowing the cops in your house. How does that work when they have battering rams? I'm genuinely curious.

"Police! Open up!"

"You got a warrant?"

"We don't have to show you a warrant!"

"Fuck off."

"We're going to break down your door!"

" I've got a shotgun. Get a warrant."

Unless they have a warrant thay are no different than any other thugs breaking into your house.

AReasonableMan said...

Lot of unfocused emotion on this topic. Still it is good that you law and order types are beginning to see the down side of our police state. Welcome to the party.

damikesc said...

Might want to read Instapundit, ARM. He's been quite outspoken no-knock raids, police militarization, and the need to remove official immunity from any public servant breaking the law, including police

Todd said...

AReasonableMan said... [hush]​[hide comment]
Lot of unfocused emotion on this topic. Still it is good that you law and order types are beginning to see the down side of our police state. Welcome to the party.

4/22/15, 6:21 AM


Wow, at time and on certain subjects, you really do live in your own mind's reality don't you?

There is a BIG difference between believing in a moral right (as in correctness not political ideology) and in a police state. You can believe in the rule of law and be against people and organizations abusing law. Funny how you can't seem to tell the difference...

Rick said...

"AReasonableMan said...
Lot of unfocused emotion on this topic. Still it is good that you law and order types are beginning to see the down side of our police state. Welcome to the party."

No, we're on the side that doesn't excuse these tactics when used against conservatives. And we're on the side that doesn't lie about legitimate police operations when opportune to foment hate.

Decent people are welcome to join us.