November 15, 2014

Did feminists make the comet landing all about clothes?

That's what Glenn Reynolds writes, and I'm not buying it.
So how are things going for feminism? Well, last week they took one of the great achievements of human history -- landing a probe from Earth on a comet hundreds of millions of miles away -- and made it all about the clothes.
There's no antecedent for "they." Is "feminism" a collective term for all feminists? Even if it's only "some women," as Glenn puts it in the second paragraph, there's no way the people who chose to comment on Matt Taylor's shirt had the power to transform a newsworthy event into an event all about the clothes.

The statement would make more sense if it read: Some feminists made their preferred topic more attention-getting than the topic that should have predominated.

So what? We often pay less attention to what is more important. Why aren't we spending all our time thinking and talking about the deepest religious and philosophical questions?

Do you want to shut up the chatter that you think is too frivolous? It used to be the feminists who seemed to want to silence others. Apparently, now, they're so powerful that men are the ones doing the silencing. Men used to tell women that they ought to enter the debate and argue forthrightly in words and not expect men to shut up. In the case of this shirt, women jumped in, spoke up, and got heard. Isn't that what men had been advising women to do?


And I will be more provocative: In the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel.

Back to Glenn:
... Then some women noticed that one of the space scientists, Matt Taylor, was wearing a shirt... featuring comic-book depictions of semi-naked women. 
Some women noticed? Everyone noticed! It was an extremely showy shirt, and Taylor chose it for some reason. We were supposed to pretend we didn't see it? It's not as though the "some women" made something out of nothing. To blame the women for making this a topic is to impose a burden on us all to shut up about something obvious. If Taylor had wanted to keep everything focused on the achievements of the team he was on, he wouldn't have picked that shirt. Why attack the women?
And suddenly, the triumph of the comet landing was drowned out by shouts of feminist outrage about . . . what people were wearing....

The Atlantic's Rose Eveleth tweeted, "No no women are toooootally welcome in our community, just ask the dude in this shirt." 
How is that a shout of feminist outrage? It's caustic humor. You know, the kind men used to like to say that women couldn't do? It was Taylor who brought attention to himself, which messed up the moment of triumph for his teammates. When you wear a shirt like that, you're asking for it... to use a phrase that has been used against women. And I know that in repurposing that old line, I'm putting Rose Eveleth in the place of the rapist, but she didn't commit any crime against Taylor. She criticized him.
Astrophysicist Katie Mack commented: "I don't care what scientists wear. But a shirt featuring women in lingerie isn't appropriate for a broadcast if you care about women in STEM." And from there, the online feminist lynch mob took off until Taylor was forced to deliver a tearful apology on-camera.
Lynch mob? No physical injury befell Taylor. He was criticized. It used to be women who tried to control male speech and who would cry as a way to say that men shouldn't be so brutal. The tables are turned. 
It seems to me that if you care about women in STEM, maybe you shouldn't want to communicate the notion that they're so delicate that they can't handle pictures of comic-book women. Will we stock our Mars spacecraft with fainting-couches?
It seems to me that it's the man who crumpled in a flood of emotion. I think the women looked straight at the pictures and criticized them. That counts as handling. Taylor retreated. Whatever message he may have thought he was sending through his choice of shirt — and it's undeniable that he intended to send a message — it wasn't heard the way he wanted, and he expressed regret.

Fashion is ambiguous. You need to think about what you want to say with clothing. If you don't want to say much of anything, wear conventional, bland, neutral things. Taylor went far to the extreme in his choice of clothing. He was asking to be read. His shirt screamed. But what did it say? Some women told the world what they thought it said, and he disowned that statement. Conversation over.

Or do you want to keep talking about it? Because if you do — and apparently Glenn does — then you're causing it to overshadow the achievement of the Rosetta team. Why?
... [W]hat should have been the greatest day in a man's life -- accomplishing something never before done in the history of humanity -- was instead derailed by people with their own axes to grind. 
It wasn't to have been "the greatest day in a man's life," but the greatest day for a team, and that one man decided to showboat and draw attention to himself. That man said he's sorry. Can he melt back into the team — the team that deserves the credit — or do you insist on appropriating him for the purpose of attacking feminism?

356 comments:

1 – 200 of 356   Newer›   Newest»
Bob R said...

I don't want to shut anyone up. I want to let them reveal themselves to be trivial, small minded, grubbly little philistines. No problems there.

eric said...

The fact that Althouse finds fashion to be more important than science is why women aren't in STEM.

Not because some guy wears a shirt a bunch of girls don't like.

You ladies keep doing what you're doing with fashion, we men will handle the STEM fields of work.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"When a wise man points at the moon, the imbecile examines the finger." Confucius

Gahrie said...

fashion is more important than space travel.

What a very female thing to say, and perhaps an explanation for the lack of women in STEM fields?

Michael said...

He wasn't "showboating," he just had on a shirt that offends the easily offended. It wasn't meant to be provocative and was as harmless as any vintage Hawaiian shirt with a slice of non-ironic tacky.

The prissy woman from the Atlantic, who is quite plain-looking by the way, would not be a candidate for any program requiring math or science.

Journalists are increasingly stupid and angry people who are evidently green with envy of any really accomplished people.

rcocean said...

Rocket guy crying makes me not care. He's obviously a male feminist who had a wardrobe malfunction.

Gerrard787 said...

Women want the right to dress as sluts, get smashed, have sex with a man they just met, and then demand, I say DEMAND! months later that everyone believe their claim they were raped.

It's all gotten way too hysterical with some feminists lately. And now the outrage over a silly shirt.

Gahrie said...

In other words:

Who the hell do you men think you are ? How dare you attack a woman for attacking a man?

Original Mike said...

"it's undeniable that he intended to send a message"

I don't agree. There are people who choose their clothes to make a statement. But not everybody does this. I choose clothes because I like them. I'm not trying to say anything. I acknowledge that my clothes do say something about me (primarily that I'm boring) but it is not my intention to communicate that statement. My primary goal is to think as little about clothing as possible. It does not interest me.

Now, the flamboyance of this shirt may indicate that Taylor was trying to make a "statement". If so, he brought this on himself. But it may be that he choose it simply because he liked it. In either case, it was an unfortunate choice, IMO, because it was a distraction from what was important that day.

Gahrie said...

By the way, feminists didn't make the comet landing all about clothes, they made the comet landing all about feminists.

As usual.

exhelodrvr1 said...

This is another example of significantly misplaced priorities by a disproportionately powerful part of the population. And Ann complains because we complain about that.

Michael said...

I want these "feminists" to keep talking. I have no interest in shutting them up unless "shutting them up" means mocking them.

Lance said...

It's an offensive shirt. In any context. I'm surprised someone didn't call him on it sooner. I wonder if they did and he ignored the warning. Regardless, he should be embarrassed.

But I don't believe that shirt would stop any women i know from pursuing a STEM degree or career.

Original Mike said...

"In the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

If true, human culture is in very sad shape

campy said...

'There's no antecedent for "they." '

Oooh, leading with a grammar flame! That's always the sign of someone with a brilliant argument.

Steve said...

He got attacked and you say "Of course, look at what he was wearing."

Professor Reynolds is right. You have doubled down on wrong. I'm glad women in science are tougher than than women law professors and women social justice warriors.

Sam L. said...

Well, I didn't notice--I couldn't see enough of that shirt well enough to make enough sense of it.

Michael K said...

I want to let them reveal themselves to be trivial, small minded, grubbly little philistines.

Yup. The gender studies majors have their panties in a twist for sure.

Law professors, too, I guess.

It ll reminds me of the female "scientist" who said Larry Summers comment made her "want to vomit." Poor dear.

The most remarkable feminist exercise in self-parody was that of MIT biology professor Nancy Hopkins, who famously told reporters that she "felt I was going to be sick," that "my heart was pounding and my breath was shallow," that "I just couldn't breathe, because this kind of bias makes me physically ill," and that she had to flee the room because otherwise "I would've either blacked out or thrown up."

You can't make this stuff up. Poor Nancy. I wonder if she had daddy issues?

Jason said...

If I were a hiring manager, I'd scroll through public twitter and Facebook accounts. Anyone who makes more of the shirt than the achievement and claims 'SEXISM!!! DIS IZ Y WOMYN AREN'T WELCME IN STEM FIELDS" gets her resume thrown in the trash on the first screen because they are walking, talking liabilities.

Jupiter said...

I'm kind of with Althouse on this one. People who are so oblivious to their appearance that they don't notice what they are wearing don't have tattoos all over their bodies. The guy was basically saying, "I am so good that they let me look like this", and "they" called him on it. He just hadn't expected it to come from that angle.

But then, I also don't think spending a billion euros to hit a rock with a camera is any very impressive accomplishment.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Respectfully, Prof, you picked the wrong tweet from Rose Eleveth to illustrate Prof Reynolds' point. This one is better:

Thanks for ruining the cool comet landing for me asshole.
Feminist outrage? Sounds like it. Making the issue about her and her feelings? Check. Arguing that his choice to wear that shirt overshadowed the actual accomplishment? Check. Seems like pretty good evidence for Instapundit's point, even if one disagrees with his conclusion.

gerry said...

Land a probe on anything 330 million miles away. A cranky bitch complains about your shirt. She needs to get a useful life.

It's not men that keep women out of STEM. It's
womens' emotions.

Gamergate is revealing just how stupid this wave of feminism is and how to fight it.

Bob Ellison said...

"Some women noticed? Everyone noticed!"

Nobody noticed. Most people noticed nothing. Some people thought, "hey, weird shirt". It took fine analysis by some idiot at the Atlantic to make it an issue. I couldn't even make out the images on the shirt.

Glenn Reynolds got this right.

tim in vermont said...

I think Althouse's theme today is "All of the assholes are of the other sex."

I can't believe I am back at this blog, I am supposed to be googling how to rebuild the carburetor on my snow machine; the carburetor that has been wrecked by ethanol.

gerry said...

Sarah A. Hoyt:Which brings us back to the ratio of men and women. And to the shameful incident this week, in which the despicable Rose Eveleth at the Atlantic bullied Dr. Matt Taylor into apologizing, in tears, for wearing a shirt with women with rayguns on it.

Wanderlost said...

". Isn't that what men had been advising women to do?"

That question would make more sense if it read, "Isn't that what SOME men..."

MikeDC said...

Basically you put the lie to your take on this whole sorry affair with the "You're asking for it" line.

Nobody's ever asking for it. And going down that road is a race to the bottom

In contrast, everyone, men and women both, would be better off by upholding the once commonly accepted social norm of politeness and keeping our feelings about the appearance of others to ourselves.

It was once a mark of virtue, a sign of control over oneself, to do so. Loudly proclaiming "you're asking for it" is to loudly proclaim your utter inability to escape your animal emotions and behave in polite society.

wholelottasplainin' said...

exhelodrvr1 said..."When a wise man points at the moon, the imbecile examines the finger." Confucius

******

Jupiter said.

"But then, I also don't think spending a billion euros to hit a rock with a camera is any very impressive accomplishment."

****

QED

Lydia said...

How about maybe the guy just doesn't have a clue --

The controversy follows the revelations from the scientist’s sister Maxine that he could be “useless” in everyday life. Portraying her tattooed sibling as absent-minded, unable to find his car in the car park, and sometimes lacking in common sense, she told the Evening Standard, he didn’t like making decisions.

Malishious Intent said...

As a female, I'd say you are letting your bias show here. I side with Mr. Reynolds.

Ann Althouse said...

"The fact that Althouse finds fashion to be more important than science is why women aren't in STEM."

I didn't say fashion is more important than science. I could snark about males and verbal ability here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping.

I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel.

I invite you to think deeply about why this is so. Imagine being stuck in a debate where you had to defend that proposition. If you are large-minded enough to get through that, you might feel enlightened.

J Lee said...

Hard to believe Roosevelt ever lowered himself to read that letter from Einstein on atomic energy without Al combing his hair and getting a trim first.

Big Mike said...

I'm not buying it.

And none of us give a damn what you choose to buy or not buy.

Bob Ellison said...

"I could snark about males and verbal ability here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping."

That's fascinating. Says a lot about you. I invite you to think deeply about it.

Paul said...

"It's an offensive shirt. In any context. I'm surprised someone didn't call him on it sooner. I wonder if they did and he ignored the warning. Regardless, he should be embarrassed."

No you should be embarrassed for being a suckup feminist apologist that is so prissy you would find the shirt offensive.

We're turning into a nation of childish self righteous scolds. That's what the juvenile leftist herd mentality is designed to do.

Althouse dabbles in libertarianism but scratch the surface and you get a tired old hoary feminist-marxist petty tyrant.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said...Even if it's only "some women," as Glenn puts it in the second paragraph, there's no way the people who chose to comment on Matt Taylor's shirt had the power to transform a newsworthy event into an event all about the clothes.
In terms of what actually happened that is correct. In terms of what gets Media coverage this is wrong. The Media covers what it chooses to cover. The Media is sympathetic to the views and opinions of the kind of people who care more about perceived sexism than they do about scientific achievement. So Media opinion-makers (almost uniformly Left-Progressives) absolutely have the power to "transform a newsworthy event" even if that's not what you think happened in this particular case.

tim in vermont said...

I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel.

That sort of depends on whether or not there is a comet with our name on it. Dinosaurs didn't care about space travel.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

At least one feminist here made it all about what a man was wearing but, as she usually does when she has been challenged by her readers, she becomes ever more obstinate, imperious, and dismissive, stamps her little foot and scolds everyone.

RecChief said...

Several miserable harpies joined Ms. Eveleth on the public shaming, turning a staggering scientific achievement into a colloquy on restoring Victorian dress codes. For the record, the shirt was made by a woman named Elly Prizeman as a fun gift for her physicist friend.

- Jon Gabriel

Gahrie said...

Women = good

Men = bad

Sofa King said...

I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel.


I think the proposition simply begs the question of what one considers "important."

William said...

I think Matt Taylor has unplumbed depths of weirdness, and that this shirt is just one, unimportant manifestation of that weirdness. In any event, his girlfriend, the tattoo artist, will with proper marketing possibly make more from the sale of this shirt than he did from the comet landing. So it's all good.......The math, science, and technology that went into this are incomprehensible to me. A bad fashion choice serves to humanize the event.

Chef Mojo said...

Gee. Althouse thinks we're not thinking big enough for her; that we haven't opened our minds enough to grasp her Big Feminist Theroy of Rocket Science Fashion.

Who could have seen that coming?

furious_a said...

I really didn't get #Gamergate, or its gravity, and why the Gamers' pushback against the SJWs was so important, until now.

I want these "feminists" to keep talking.

How else to hold them up to richly deserved mockery and contempt if they aren't making its-all-about-me asses of themselves?

Gahrie said...

Althouse thinks we're not thinking big enough for her;

We're just ignorant, unenlightened men, unable to understand our feminist betters.......

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...


I think everyone who voted for Obama in either 2008 or 2012, should have a big "O" tattooed in the middle of their forehead, so we can all have a visual shortcut to remind us not to bother worrying about anything they opine on.

At least it would put it in perspective.

sdharms said...

well, you are WRONG Ann. As a 66yr old female CHEMISTRY PhD., I think I have standing on this. What this scientist did is HUGE and what the feminists did is SMALL. They want freedom but wont allow it for others. I just wonder where these layabouts would get their soft lives if not for scientists like this guy.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said... Lynch mob? No physical injury befell Taylor. He was criticized. It used to be women who tried to control male speech and who would cry as a way to say that men shouldn't be so brutal. The tables are turned.

The currently-popular ethos is to treat verbal harassment as dangerous (when targeted at women) and to conflate harsh criticism with harassment. If you're going to say physical harm is the standard now you'll have to go back over any number of recent cases and tell the women they weren't really hurt (Gamergate, for starters). "Used to be?" It 100% still is the case! Prof Reynolds is using the framework women (feminists?) created (and currently use) and is applying it to this situation. Imagine the genders were reversed, and a female scientist was being criticized by men for an inappropriate choice of clothing (too revealing, perhaps). Do you think the female critics of those men would describe the men as participating in a lynch mob? Of course they would!

Try to imagine that scenario. A female scientist wears a super-low cut top on the day of the press conferences. Men criticize that choice, saying it distracts from the mission and is selfish of her (to intentionally draw attention to herself). Feminists would say...what? They'd attack the male critics! Body shaming, pseudo-Taliban, backwards men.

Bob Ellison said...

I dunno. I guess I'll keep coming to this blog, at least for a while, but it's more for the comments than the initial posts these days.

Democratic Underground went that way. The posts were unimportant; the discussion was what everyone wanted.

This is all part of Godwin's Law, perhaps.

Mary Beth said...

That sort of depends on whether or not there is a comet with our name on it. Dinosaurs didn't care about space travel.

They didn't care about fashion either, and look where they are now. Chickens!

He's a science nerd. He wore a shirt created by an artist. It's like he thought that wearing something arty would balance out the scienciness and would equal normal personitutde.

April Apple said...

He said "ONLINE lynch mob".

eric said...

Althouse writes:

"I didn't say fashion is more important than science. I could snark about males and verbal ability here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping."

You're right, you didn't say that. I twisted what you wrote into something you didn't write.

"I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

Yep, that's what you wrote.

"I invite you to think deeply about why this is so. Imagine being stuck in a debate where you had to defend that proposition. If you are large-minded enough to get through that, you might feel enlightened."

I hope it doesn't bother you too much that I decline your invitation.

I invite you to think deeply about why you responded to me, what I intended to do with my post, I how it ties into your earlier PUA post that supposedly doesn't work on women.

Chuck Currie said...

So now we know why he chose that shirt to wear on that special day...it was a special shirt made for him by a close female friend...he was saying, thanks for the cool shirt, I love it so much and I really appreciate that you went to the trouble to make it for me, I'm wearing it today for all the world to see.

One more thing, the next time you see some dude or gal all tatted up...think, scientist, not freak.

Unknown said...

Althouse, one of your things is this:

You can say "fuck you"
You can say "God eats shit"
Given context you can even get away with "nigger"

But the only, or the last true blasphemy to you, is "shut up."

Which is a pity because it's a useful concept and often good advice.

letum hostibus said...

Hey Ann, what you may not know is that a female friend made that shirt for him. I'd advise you to look at more facts before judging him for the shirt he was wearing and making outlandish comments about fashion being more important than science, then wondering why there aren't more women in STEM.

furious_a said...

fashion is more important than space travel.

Hmmm, maybe fashion precedes space travel. Since fashion is intrinsically foreign and requires travel to acquire.

Demand for silk and spices drove the merchant adventurers of the Middle Ages to open trade routes to the Far East, after which Columbus and Magellan followed.

Demand for furs drew trappers to the Trans-Mississippi West, after which Lewis & Clark followed.

Chuck Currie said...

HoodlumDoodlum said:

Try to imagine that scenario. A female scientist wears a super-low cut top on the day of the press conferences. Men criticize that choice, saying it distracts from the mission and is selfish of her (to intentionally draw attention to herself).

Actually, it would be the feminists slut shaming her while Maxim turned her into a STEM pinup girl.

Anglelyne said...

"[H]e should have said 'eppur si muove' and then flexed to make one of the girls' bosoms swell."


^Favorite comment so far that I've come across wandering 'round the net, re this affaire.

Grown man shouldn't dress like that for work. But it's much worse for a grown man to grovel like that.

mark abrams said...

I remember vividly how Albert Einstien was prevented from delivering his second relativity paper because he wasn't wearing socks. What sort of statement was he making the world wondered. Indeed today the number of learned papers on the hermeneutics of the sockless state far outnumber those on relativity. Fashion is indeed far more important than mere human understanding of the universe.

mikee said...

I have a dream of a day when my engineers are judged not by the color of their skins, but by the anime characters on their shirts.

Laslo Spatula said...

I am not all that concerned about fashion. In fact, if women got rid of that 'fashion' business and just wanted to walk around naked I'd be fine with that. If they wanted just a little bit of fashion they could walk around naked while wearing fashionable high heels. Then I would fly around all the high heeled naked women in my rocket-ship.My rocket-ship has a Giant Space Cannon. That's science.

Michael K said...

Obviously math is not something that is important in law school.

Just hilarious. Ann, you made my sexist day.

Sebastian said...

"I didn't say fashion is more important than science. I could snark about males and verbal ability here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping.

I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel.

I invite you to think deeply about why this is so. Imagine being stuck in a debate where you had to defend that proposition. If you are large-minded enough to get through that, you might feel enlightened."

The accomplishment at issue is better described as space exploration, as it involves no "travel" by any human beings. I could snark about law professors, particularly female law professors with a high opinion of their own verbal skills, and their understanding of science here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping.

peter toal said...

So should I order that guy's shirt through your Amazon portal? That I will never use again. What are you thinking Ann?

Carl Pham said...

You need to think about what you want to say with clothing.

One imagines Dane County defense attorneys handling sexual assault and "hostile workplace" sexual harassment cases chuckling to themselves as they take screenshots of what the UW female law professor just said.

If the plaintiff didn't want my client to make a snide comment about how she got her promotion, what was she doing wearing that shirt to work? You need to think about what you want to say with clothing.

Oh, that's totally different, right? Sure it is. I'm sure this hair is not one molecule thick -- it can be split.

Eugene said...

Amy Alkon: "There's a certain kind of nerd who wears that kind of shirt, and I've always had a soft spot for that guy and the way he sees the world. The sort of hope and love of space fantasy and dream of a bullet-bra'd fantasy woman of that guy is the stuff [that] jobs landing spacecraft on comets are made of."

SamanthaHill said...

Althouse seems to always get bashed when she says anything even slightly pro women. It's uncanny that she has a commentariat full of misogynists, even female misogynists. Anti women sentiment is 'popular' now among the right wing. Men feeling sorry for themselves is such a turn off. So what if some women criticized the shirt, so damn what? Get a grip, men and I don't mean on your penis.

sean said...

I would agree with Prof. Althouse to the point of saying that fashion is more important to women, including women university professors, than is science. That may be why there are so few woman scientists.

Roughcoat said...

What are you thinking Ann?

She's in another of her moods. A stirring-things-up mood. Spoiling for a fight. She's the straw the stirs the drink.

furious_a said...

Sorry, Althouse, a J.D. and a suscription to Vogue pale in comparison to this:

Matt Taylor was born in London, gained his undergraduate Physics degree at the University of Liverpool, and a PhD from Imperial College London. His career has focused on the space plasma measurements, working in Europe and the US on the four spacecraft ESA Cluster mission, leading to a post at ESA which started in 2005 working as the project scientist for Cluster and the ESA-China Double star mission. His studies have focused on energetic particle dynamics in near-Earth space and in the interaction of the Sun’s solar wind with the Earths magnetic field, particularly focusing on how boundary layer interactions evolve, leading to 70 first or co-authored papers. Most recently he was appointed the Project Scientist on the Rosetta mission.

h/t:HoodlumDoodlum

Original Mike said...

@wholelottasplainin' (1:26):

Touché!

furious_a said...

Men feeling sorry for themselves is such a turn off.

That's why you have all those cats, sweetie.

William said...

Wearing that shirt was overdone. Crying in the face of criticism was overdone. But if you want something really overdone, try landing a spacecraft on a comet a billion miles from earth. This man's life is an unbroken sequence of overdone gestures.

CB_Editor said...

Can we think a bit smaller here?

Ann, what specifically do you find offensive about the shirt?

I'm seriously curious.

furious_a said...

in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel.

Well, duh -- space travel has only been around since, what, Yuri Gagarin?

dustbunny said...

I like this site because it is smart, funny and littered with Dylan references. Unlike a number of left wing or right wing sites Althouse plays with the stereotypes with which those sites proudly and quite stupidly adhere. I am going to think deeply about the.influence of fashion throughout history, but I'm not convinced there is a great deal there except on an esoteric level. Fashion leads to variations on a theme, science lead to space exploration. I am a woman, I grew up reading Seventeen and Vogue, I studied art history and I concede that Coco Chanel was a badass who changed a small but recent block of history.. Also I studied art because math was way too hard-l'sterotype c'est moi.
Is this about the court at Versailles? sans-culottes vs the aristocrats?

Original Mike said...

Althouse said: "In the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

Tim in Vermont said: "That sort of depends on whether or not there is a comet with our name on it. Dinosaurs didn't care about space travel."


But you can be sure that Althouse will be dressed to the nines at the end of the world.

William said...

Here's an angle I haven't heard discussed. Ball players when they win the pennant, break open the bubbly and spray themselves with it. It doesn't take deep Freudian analysis to explain this as an orgasmic gesture. When men achieve something grand, they tend to make orgasmic gestures. Maybe this lurid shirt was Taylor's way crowning his achievement with an orgasmic gesture......And those feminists who criticized him are like those women who say "Eww, that's disgusting. That's.like blowing your nose on me. Promise that you'll never do that again."

SamanthaHill said...

'Oh she's just a woman in one of her moods'. Love it. Why does Althouse bother with you people?

furious_a said...

"Did feminists make the comet landing all about clothes?"

No, they made it all about themselves.

It's who they are. It's all they know. It's what they do.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said... It wasn't to have been "the greatest day in a man's life," but the greatest day for a team, and that one man decided to showboat and draw attention to himself. That man said he's sorry. Can he melt back into the team — the team that deserves the credit — or do you insist on appropriating him for the purpose of attacking feminism?

See, this is a very clever tactic; Prof A is smart and rhetorically skilled. This frames the situation as one where an individual showboated and took attention away from the team effort (by purposefully drawing attention to himself through unconventional sartorial choices). If that was actually what was being debated Althouse would be right (although still counter to the "do what you want, wear what you want" 60's hippie ethos that many folks on the left use to criticize aesthetic judgments from buttoned down squares). But that is not at all what this is about, as I shall demonstrate.

Remember the reactions to Bobak Ferdowsi? No? He's the NASA Mohawk guy who garnered so much attention during the Curiosity Mars landing. The other members of Mission Control had conventional haircuts, but Bobak sported a mohawk with bright coloration and patterns (stars, etc). He acquired a lot of attention that would otherwise have been focused on the mission or the team, right? Was he widely criticized for that? No, he was in fact widely praised. By the President, even! He was in the First Lady's box for the 2013 State of the Union. Ferdowsi was a systems engineer and as such was a more minor player (of a larger team) than Dr. Taylor is of his.

I understand why one would want to frame this issue as one about a team member showboating at the expense of their team. It's not, but you'd have a more-defensible case that this isn't about feminism per se if it was. As my example shows, however, the Media does not object to showboating when they approve of the showboater/when the context of that showboating doesn't offend feminists. This isn't about showboating and arguments that it is distracts from the actual questions of the case.

oneredquilt said...

I think he has a "Look at me!!" personality and has gotten away with it because he is also very smart. Some people use their body to get noticed, others use their words, cars, houses, etc. Lots of people are like that in this world, in all walks of life, and can be useful in the entertainment industry, politics, sports or begging for money on the street corner. Welcome to the world of being human.

He probably considered his shirt "outrageous" more than anything else and, knowing that the whole world would be watching, it was just another way to get people to notice him. He expected clucks of disapproval, eyes rolling and/or laughter which would be all cool because, hey, that is what "Look at me" is all about.

He could be a very nice person, really good at what he does and just considered somewhat eccentric by the other crew members. He certainly wasn't expecting to be publicly shamed and criticized. But "Look at me" can sometimes have uncomfortable consequences.

TM Lutas said...

Woman makes shirt and gives it to a guy to wear. He wears it. Other women criticize the shirt as inappropriate.

Who is the focus of criticism, the man who wore it or the woman who made it?

Why is it all about the guy?

furious_a said...

Why is it all about the guy?

Because the woman who made the shirt has a boyfriend and they don't?

tim in vermont said...

If "misogynist" means despising a certain type of feminist, I cop to it. If it means "hating women," that's ridiculous.

What a certain type of feminist has done is to conflate the concept of hating women with hating a certain coven of effete harpies who think they know how everybody should live. I love women.

Carl Pham said...

I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel

Used GPS lately? Wondering how NOAA can tell where hurricanes are going in time to save a thousand lives and $50 billion in property damage? Glad that the ozone hole was discovered and CFCs banned before everyone got skin cancer and cataracts? Think it matters that a back of nowhere village in Bangladesh, sub-Saharan Africa, or Brazil can get a medevac flight for a kid suffering acute appendicitis or traumatic injury using a sat phone? Glad that none of the DEW radar warnings triggered by flocks of geese in the 70s and 80s did not lead to a nuclear exchange because orbital cameras said nope I see no missile trails?

One imagines the response Oh I didn't mean THAT spaceflight, I meant...[insert ad hoc qualifier here]. I find people are like that, often, when contemplating the messy unpredictabilities of science. It would be funny if it weren't such a pain. They look at the diddling around on the frontier undertaken by people who just like to mess with stuff and say Damn it, that's SUCH a waste of time. When confronted with the 2% of previous diddling that turned out to be essential to human progress, the response is always Well, sure...but it's only 2%! You should cut out the 98% of your diddling that will not, when we look back on it 20 years from now, turn out to have produced unexpected and important contributions to human welfare.

Well OK then!

buwaya puti said...

Fashion is and always has been a useless and destructive phenomenon of human society
It is what lies beneath the tendency to form mobs. Often the effects are innocuous, but they are never beneficial and they are often destructive.
Maybe when humans lived in small groups there may have been some value in this, but not in mass societies.
Down with fashion, in all its forms.

tim in vermont said...

@SamanthaHill,

I can't wait to see your first interesting comment.

harrogate said...

"And I will be more provocative: In the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

Well played. And very true.

Eric's comment: "The fact that Althouse finds fashion to be more important than science is why women aren't in STEM" provided comic relief right off the bat, too.

Roughcoat said...

Why does Althouse bother with you people?

I answer that question in my initial post.

mezzrow said...

Bet you weren't expecting this kind of push back, were you Ann? Seems a bit silly when viewed unemotionally.

Why do you think that is?

If you pick the scab, the healing will be delayed, if not postponed indefinitely.

I've already cancelled my Atlantic subscription held for some 20+ years now, with a full explanation of why. Just saying. As they say in Tuscany, "Basta!"

harrogate said...

"I didn't say fashion is more important than science. I could snark about males and verbal ability here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping. "

Bazinga.

"I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

Careful! Don't confuse them with the facts!

"I invite you to think deeply about why this is so. Imagine being stuck in a debate where you had to defend that proposition. If you are large-minded enough to get through that, you might feel enlightened."

This, friends, is an example of being generous with hecklers while also not putting up with their shit, all at the same time. It is a valid invitation! Will any of the hecklers take her up on it?*

*as an aside, have we seen much evidence that those who think they are making fun of the fashion and space travel comment, really have thought very deeply about why space travel matters? After all, belching "STEM" doesn't make one thoughtful or useful or even very good at "STEM," no matter how many times one belches it.

Mark said...

Anyone is free to feel how they want about the dude's shirt. What they aren't free to do is use it as an example of why Suzie isn't going to go STEM. Those who train their Suzies to care more about the shirt than the science are going to find Suzie enrolled in Womyn's Studies at Oberlin instead of Physics at MIT.

And then Suzie will say she can't balance a checkbook because Sexism!

tim maguire said...

In the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel.

True, but it wasn't supposed to be a cultural moment, was it?

Ann Althouse said...

Fashion got Adam and Eve thrown out of the Garden of Eden. They were auf'd.

Michael K said...

"So should I order that guy's shirt through your Amazon portal?"

It's sold out. Sorry.

One look at his tattoos should have told anyone with the observation powers of an ant that the guy has his own sartorial style. Anybody who has been around engineers long enough knows this is what they are like. Not all but enough.

The woman engineer who first proposed that Apple use the Intel chip for their computers instead of motorola was a woman who rode a motorcycle to work, had half her head shaved and her hair dyed in the rainbow pattern of Apple's trademark. That's in one of the books about Apple, I forget which one. When they turned down her ideas, she left. She was chief of their operating system design team, I believe.

Small minds have trouble seeing big pictures.

tim maguire said...

mezzrow said...
Bet you weren't expecting this kind of push back, were you Ann?"


The professor is hardly a stranger to pushback. You don't have to read this blog long to know most of us occupy a different spot on the political spectrum from our hostess.

Jupiter said...

"I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

And you are arguably right. But he is not being attacked for wearing the shirt. He is being attacked for believing the shirt is inoffensive. If those half-naked women were half-naked men, the shirt would still be out of place at a scientific press conference, but it would not be these women pointing that out.

TM Lutas said...

Let me take seriously, for a second, this story as a fashion story. In fashion, it's all about the designer, the intent, the statement, the execution of that statement. It all goes back to the designer. The wearer, the model, is secondary at best and most often tertiary.

But this time the designer is a woman. And in all the criticism, the designer has become invisible. This time it's all about the wearer, his intent instead of her intent.

Why are the critics making the woman invisible? Perhaps because to acknowledge her doesn't fit the narrative? Perhaps because the reporter didn't bother to ask and exhibited a prejudicial decision that such a shirt must have been made by a man?

Why is this story about the man?

Original Mike said...

@Carl Pham (2:45): Thank you for your post.

Michael K said...

Oh, thanks for an idea for a post at ChicagoBoyz.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

For the record: I think Dr. Taylor's shirt was inappropriate. I think it was inappropriate for him to wear shorts. If I was his boss I would have said "Oy, mate, piss off back to your 'otel and toss on a suit."
This is, of course, the European Space Agency, and I certainly remember hearing about how great those enlightened Europeans are w/r/t fashion and showing their bodies (in contrast to those prudish, repressed Americans).

Rick Caird said...

The feminists approve of slut walks and topless protests, but draw the line at a man's shirt. That pretty much sums up the state of feminism.

J Lee said...

Blogger harrogate said...

"I didn't say fashion is more important than science. I could snark about males and verbal ability here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping. "

Bazinga.


...speaking of Bazinga, Reynolds just noted that Dr. Cooper weighed in on the side of Dr. Taylor in the shirt kerfuffle.

For this argument, and given Sheldon's personality, I'm not sure if it helps or hurts Ann's position, but we'll probably see an un-PC shirt story line on TBBT during February sweeps (and we still haven't heard from Leonard or Howard Wolowitz on the matter yet...)

Lydia said...

Whatever message he may have thought he was sending through his choice of shirt — and it's undeniable that he intended to send a message — it wasn't heard the way he wanted, and he expressed regret.

Message? How about he's just a goofy guy who likes tattoos and weird shirts, which are a large part of his M.O., which had worked very well for him.

The goofy part:

At home, Taylor cooks to unwind, though his wife, Leanne, says it’s more because he likes eating. They have been together since the sixth form. “I have known him through all his incarnations: extremely long hair, short bleach-blond hair, bald head and his current relatively normal do."

And the M.O.:

Taylor won the top scientific spot on the mission in the summer last year. This made him the new kid compared with those who have been there since day one, more than 20 years ago. The role was quite a departure from his previous role – studying the physics behind the Aurora Borealis, or northern lights – and eyebrows were raised.

“Scientifically, we were taking a chance. We discussed that he’d have to come up to speed very quickly in order to be able to develop credibility and gain the trust of the Rosetta science working team,” says Prof Mark McCaughrean, senior science advisor at ESA, who appointed Taylor.

Taylor was asked to introduce himself to the rest of the team, and needed something to convince the “ancient comet ninjas” that he was not some kind of usurper. So he made them a promise. If Rosetta successfully roused itself from hibernation, he would have the mission tattooed on his leg.

harrogate said...

It's also interesting to think about what fashion and space travel have in common. Both fundamentally participate in humankind's struggle with nature, for example. Both concern themselves with weather and atmosphere in intrinsic ways.

And of course, David Bowie wrote provocatively about both.

tim maguire said...

If Taylor had wanted to keep everything focused on the achievements of the team he was on, he wouldn't have picked that shirt.

I think he picked that shirt because he was expecting a party and that's his party shirt. I think it's absurd to assume that he picked it out to make a statement for the cameras. Unless, of course, the statement is, "hey! I'm not a nerd! I'm fun!"

Brian O'Connor said...

I think it was his "comfort shirt." It was made for him by a dear friend . . . a girl, no less. (Oh, the irony! And why not bash the girl who made it for him and approved of him wearing it?)

He probably wore it for good luck. After all, there was no small question as to whether or not the mission, after all this time, would be successful.



Mark said...

I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel.

Literally true, of course. Space travel has been a practical concern for less than 60 years.

I would posit though that science, technology, engineering, and math have been more important than fashion since the first ape-thing threw the first hand-shaped stone at an antelope.

I'm sure the Persians were considered much more fashionable than the Athenians in 480 BC (the Persians being much more culturally diverse and inclusive than the Athenians) but when it came to ships, armor, weapons, and tactics those fuddy-duddy Greeks pretty much put fashion-v-STEM in perspective.

Such has it always been.

Chattering is what the chattering class does. Such skills make the formulation "fashion historically has been more important than Germ Theory" sound witty while not having to deal with, to paraphrase, why Suzie has a 70% chance to survive the birth of each child and likely won't live past the age of 40.

FullMoon said...

I would like to remind all the crybaby womens that it was MEN who invented the
electric iron
automatic clothes washer and dryer
power steering and automatic transmissions
self cleaning ovens
dishwashers
etc.
All to make your little lives easier, and don;t forget it, sweetheart!

buwaya puti said...

The controversy here is likely to discourage anyone from entering a career in technology. In my experience the best and most useful people in tech, across many fields, are socially and culturally inept or oppositional, very often shy and anxious in social situations. This is a case where what these people would see as pure triumph in their own circles is crushed by the very public revelation of their social inferiority. Why then bother to succeed when one is merely likely to make oneself a laughing stock.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

In many sci-fi movies people of the future are shown wearing uniforms/not expressing much individual fashion choice. Maybe the writers and directors (mostly men) subconsciously believe that once we as a society stop caring about fashion we'll be able to make large scientific advancements. Maybe instead they subconsciously believe that once we're sufficiently advanced we'll stop caring about fashion. Maybe they just wanted to save on wardrobe costs.

Lydia said...

From Elly Prizeman, the friend who made the shirt, who's also being pressured to apologize:

There is no ‘meaning’ behind the shirt. I just bought material and sewed it together.

Nothing sinister at all was meant behind it at any point. It was just a bold and individual fashion item.

Jupiter said...

I really don't understand why everyone thinks making a rocket hit a rock is such a big deal. The only part of the whole plan that was even slightly dicey, the harpoons, did not work, and now the thing has shut down like a cheap cell phone 'cause its battery ran down. This was a monumental waste of resources. Not that there is really anything interesting it could tell us, even if it had the power to broadcast.

But if you want to congratulate the person responsible, it would be some computer jock, who calculated the trajectory. Not some astrophysicist, for God's sake.

LL said...

What if he wore a shirt with Kim kardasian's latest photo all over it?

Unknown said...

Sam Hill, you don't know how right you are. The mistake was paying attention to the harpies in the first place when they started squawking about the shirt.

You couldn't be expected to understand, but chicks with rayguns equals science fiction. Science fiction is why scientists get up in the morning. What you think is not important. You cannot even design a superior hair brush, let alone do rocket science.

Just skip all the rest of it. What you think is not important.

furious_a said...

Per Ed Driscoll, if America's Li'l Darlin's get the vapors over a saucy shirt, how can they be expected to handle combat roles in the military?

tim in vermont said...

Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them

Ha ha ha. Wasn't that shurt funny!

Smilin' Jack said...

Why do feminists hate depictions of pretty women? Pretty women should really give them some pushback on this--not all females look like fireplugs.
But I suppose pretty women have more fun things to do--I know one does, tonight.
And feminists can take some comfort in knowing that even if they're not cute, they're still funny when they're mad.

Jupiter said...

One further point of hilarity is all the babble about women in STEM jobs. Are they saying that it would be OK for the garbageman to wear this shirt to a press conference? How about if your plumber showed up in it?

Roppert said...

Burkas for everybody!

Original Mike said...

@wholelottasplainin' dispatched you hours ago, Jupiter.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Holy shit, just when you think it can't get worse:

Mark Zuckerberg Explains Why He Wears only Gray T-Shirts, Sounds Sexist by Allison Davis in New York Magazine.
See, Zuckerberg himself sees fashion as frivolous and unserious, and since Davis believes fashion is important and is held to be important by women, ipso facto Zuckerberg's belief is sexist.

dustbunny said...

People in fashion really believe in the importance of fashion, and they are quite withering when you disagree. From the Devil wears Prada:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kzu-RgorcSo

Did rocket scientists ever wear lab coats or was that just in the movies?

Kenneth Anderson said...

So, the feminist twitterer didn't commit a "crime", as you say. But, you know, in your very last post, you characterized Taylor's shirt as his "crime".

Maybe you don't like the guy's shirt. It wasn't appropriate. Fine. But it's not a crime, either, and all of these twitter-lynchings and public humiliations don't sit well with me. Each one will breed more of the same. Some pushback is eventually appropriate.

By the way, my aunt's an astrophysicist. I KNOW some shirt isn't going to hold back female progress in the sciences. Women who want to do astro-engineering want to conquer the cosmos, and won't be intimidated by some dork's shirt.

tim in vermont said...

Picture ofa man who hates women

Unknown said...

Also, +1 why was the shirt offensive again? Because it had women on it? Is it because of their various poses? Was it because some of them show too much skin? It's really... I don't even get it.

Frankly if I had a complaint it should have been more ray guns and more of the old fashioned Hugo Gernsbach type, more helmets, more pulp fiction, maybe a monster or two. I could have made a better shirt than that-well, designed it; I can't sew. Neither can Harpy One, I bet.

Unknown said...

Think deeply about this, old house: does the bad shit in your head make you a bad person, or if you tried really hard could you change?

LYNNDH said...

Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar, and Shirt is just a Shirt.

furious_a said...

Fish, Barrel, Smoking Gun....

I really don't understand why everyone thinks making a rocket hit a rock is such a big deal.

I dunno, ask the residents of Kfar Etzion what they think of living under the protection of Iron Dome.

The only part of the whole plan that was even slightly dicey, the harpoons, did not work, and now the thing has shut down like a cheap cell phone 'cause its battery ran down

And Alan Shepard spent only 15 mins in space, not managing even a full orbit.

Writ Small said...

In the broad span of human culture, hairstyles are more important than 3D printing or nanostructured carbon composites.

In the broad span of human culture, makeup is more important than the singularity or mapping the human genome.

Fun game.

tim in vermont said...

OMG HoodlumDoodlum, I thought you were exaggerating, but NOOO!

One of the comments said it all. The article actually makes Zuckerberg look sympathetic.

chickelit said...

eric said...
The fact that Althouse finds fashion to be more important than science is why women aren't in STEM.

Cave people and aboriginals have fashion and very little science (that we know of). So fashion is more basic somehow to human nature.

David said...

Time to sell the shirt on Ebay. I see big bucks.

chickelit said...

Insofar as fashion is related to mating behavior, fashion is more important than science.

You can't advance culture if you can't even reproduce.

rhhardin said...

The Atlantic's Rose Eveleth tweeted, "No no women are toooootally welcome in our community, just ask the dude in this shirt."

How is that a shout of feminist outrage? It's caustic humor. You know, the kind men used to like to say that women couldn't do?


It's not humor. It's sacrasm.

Sarcasm, say the opposite of what you mean, is learned in early teens. Women don't outgrow it.

It means : something is wrong and you have to figure out what it is.

That's more or less the feminist position on everything.

It's too hard for them to figure it out themselves. Let the men do it and then fix it.

A good rule : never use sarcasm. Figure out what's wrong and say that.

A lot of things won't bear saying after figuring it out, which is how sarcasm survives among women past childhood.

==
The only sarcasm that's been funny was a BC cartoon, with a new sarcastic character.

A: Meet Smiley, master of sarcastic wit.

B: Yeah? Say something sarcastic.

Smiley: Pleased to meet you.

But that wasn't actually sarcasm. That was irony. He may in fact have been pleased.

Jack Sherman said...

fashion is more important than space travel.

You've got to be shitting me.

rhhardin said...

This is a good lesson for women.

Let the men worry about science.

Rattle some pans out in the kitchen if you want to be useful.

Larry J said...

"Althouse writes:

"I didn't say fashion is more important than science. I could snark about males and verbal ability here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping."

You're right, you didn't say that. I twisted what you wrote into something you didn't write.

"I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

Fashion is about vanity, pride, and planned obsolesence. In short, fashion is for suckers. It preys upon the weak minded to reject perfectly serviceable clothing so they're waste money buting clothes they don't need.

rhhardin said...

The men in math and physics definitely welcome women to the field.

A woman you can talk to, finally.

You can't find any that are emotionally up to it, though. They flood out.

As if the math is not enough to talk about.

Gahrie said...

Fashion got Adam and Eve thrown out of the Garden of Eden

Nice try.

Adam and Eve got thrown out of the garden because a woman nagged a man into doing something that he knew better than to do.

rhhardin said...

On fashion, I'd like to complain that you can't buy equal numbers of tee-shirts, briefs and socks without buying a couple dozen sets.

I think it's something like 5 6 and 7 to a package, or some set of relative near primes.

There's an anti-trust thing going on, like all auto dealers being closed on Sunday.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Writ Small said...Fun game.

What do you suppose is less important, in the broad span of human culture, than institutional law instruction (or law teaching in public universities)?

Seems to me the focus on fashion is misleading. The argument is really about what Dr. Taylor communicated (and what he was trying to communicate, what that means, etc). I think one could argue that human communication has been more imporant (historically) than space travel--but then that'd frame the discussion in a productive way, and we can't have that I suppose.

chillblaine said...

"do you insist on appropriating him for the purpose of attacking feminism?"

Yes. Feminism is corrosive.

“Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.”
— Andrea Dworkin, 1989

Gahrie said...

Fashion was invented by women to give them something to be bitchy about.....

Michael K said...

"Fashion is about vanity, pride, and planned obsolesence. In short, fashion is for suckers. It preys upon the weak minded to reject perfectly serviceable clothing so they're waste money buting clothes they don't need."

Bingo !
My dozen blue short sleeve and dozen blue long sleeve shirts thank you.

Original Mike said...

"Fashion is about vanity, pride, and planned obsolesence. In short, fashion is for suckers. It preys upon the weak minded to reject perfectly serviceable clothing so they're waste money buting clothes they don't need."

That's my view of fashion, though I would have left out the "weak minded" part.

rhhardin said...

Astrophysicist Katie Mack commented: "I don't care what scientists wear. But a shirt featuring women in lingerie isn't appropriate for a broadcast if you care about women in STEM."

That's another example of women in science winding up on the Women's Workplace Issues committee.

I saw it all the time.

traditionalguy said...

Is it true that the horrible men planted machinery on a female Comette and never asked her for consent to drill her? They are lucky they lost battery virility before they penetrated her. And she is under 18 billion tears old. so it would be statutory exploration of a minor rock.

chickelit said...

Lydia said...
From Elly Prizeman, the friend who made the shirt, who's also being pressured to apologize:

It's interesting to consider what the extremely popular women's TV show "Project Runway" would make of Prizeman. She succeeded by any objective measure that show uses but I'd wager that the hyper PC sensitive Klum/Gunn fingers would wag in disappointment.

rhhardin said...

Fashion is ambiguous. You need to think about what you want to say with clothing.

That's okay if you have breasts.

n.n said...

On a scale of selective exclusion to dehumanizing the male population to committing or contracting for premeditated abortion of wholly innocent human lives, playground journalism ranks below selective exclusion. While the irrational and extreme response to an uncertified but limited incursion into the liberal domain is disquieting, the engagement of Feltman in playground journalism is more harmful to the integrity of the libertine movement, and the millions of planned parenthood survivors who must reconcile the consequences of a selective religion.

acm said...

Can everyone stop saying "But a woman made the shirt!"? It's irrelevant. The shirt is inappropriate for the context. It might be fine for plenty of other contexts, and perhaps she intended it for those contexts when she made it and gave it to him. Ultimately, though, he is responsible for dressing himself appropriately for the situation and there's no reason that anyone should have to refrain from criticizing him when he chose not to dress appropriately. He's a grown, very intelligent man, he ought to be able to handle criticism of a faux pas.

Edward said...

I said in the broad span of human culture...oh, I thought you said 'Haute Couture' -- never mind.


No physical injury befell Taylor.
As mentioned above, PsychTrauma,
perhaps including threatened loss
of lifelong livelihood absent apology.

Fashion got Adam and Eve thrown out of the Garden of Eden.
Disobedience got them thrown out; She warned them not to try and become as she was, knowing the difference between good and evil, but Eve disobeyed, and then tempted Adam to disobey; Hiss, Boo !

Did rocket scientists ever wear lab coats or was that just in the movies?
Propellant chemists, maybe, but the real-world model was computer scientists,
back when the main-frame lived in a cleanroom, attended by white-coated acolytes.

rhhardin said...

Can he melt back into the team — the team that deserves the credit — or do you insist on appropriating him for the purpose of attacking feminism?

Science is less susceptible to teams as an organizing method.

Feminism depends on it.

Original Mike said...

"They are lucky they lost battery virility before they penetrated her."

No, they did penetrate her. The reports I've seen say they got their data.

Ken B said...

Althouse ignores what this reveals about people like Eveleth: their narrow, censorious, dog in the manger, vindictive, cruel pettiness. And she ignores what that tells us about the mindset of those who egg her on or high five her.

Character matters. This incident reveals character, not just of one or two professional victims, but of those seeking vicarious victimhood. That is Reynolds's point; those who see themselves consciously as feminists are increasingly those who admire Eveleth precisely for those character traits. The civil rights movement demanded its members aspire to be better. if your movement is represented by Eveleth et al, what is it demanding of you?

rhhardin said...

It's gotten so cold on Ohio that I've had to turn on another computer.

Manty Five said...

"When you wear a shirt like that, you're asking for it... to use a phrase that has been used against women."

You mean, to use a phrase that is universally recognized as the wrong and immoral thing to do... and you're trying to make a DEFENSE using it?

I prefer to think that you simply haven't taken the time to think thorough the logic of what you're saying, and instead going off the basis of a knee-jerk reaction.

Because that's the kindest possible thing one could say about your post and the logic you're trying to back it up with.

steve uhr said...

New Yorker Cartoon Caption Contest:

Man walking on beach with sexy semi-naked girl print swimsuit surrounded by sexy semi-naked girls.

oneredquilt said...

Hypothetical: The president of Harvard wears this shirt to a presentation given to prospective students and their parents. Could someone infer a message being sent?

Ken B said...

Althouse talks about what Eveleth tweeted. Eveleth did not make just one tweet. She also tweeted
"Thanks for ruining the cool comet landing for me, asshole."
https://mobile.twitter.com/roseveleth/status/532539812855959552

Not remotely the comic tone Althouse claims the tweets display.

Beldar said...

Showboat?

No. Just no. That's overwrought.

Michael K said...

It's pretty obvious to me that Althouse has never spent much time, if any, around engineers. When I worked for Douglas Aircraft, back in the 50s, on Friday everybody in the power plant division wore red shirts to work.

Engineers and fashion don't go together. My boss never wore a tie and he was the chief of the computer and data processing division.

Lawyers wear ties to bed.

mishu said...

"I said in the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

"I invite you to think deeply about why this is so. Imagine being stuck in a debate where you had to defend that proposition. If you are large-minded enough to get through that, you might feel enlightened."

You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.

rhhardin said...

As I recall, there was a stir at work when a large white stuffed sheep was purchased and dressed in black lingerie for the computer room.

Michael said...

Althouse

"I could snark about males and verbal ability here but I won't because I don't approve of stereotyping. "

I do. Let us play the gender verbal ability game. I will start.

Chaucer, Shakespeare, Joyce, Swift, Orwell.

Now you name five females with "verbal ability"and we will see who runs out of names firstfforweve use
.

victoria said...

1. Glenn Reynolds is a misoginistic jerk, like, as I observe, most conservatives. Heads up their posteriors.

2. Shirt should have been offensive to everyone, EVERYONE, not just "feminists"

3. Prof. Althouse, you are spot on.


Vicki from Pasadena

n.n said...

Welcome to liberal America, Euros. Welcome to la-la land. It only seems to be a paradox until you properly classify generational liberalism or progressivism as libertinism. It is only perceived as religious (i.e. moral) until you identify the underlying motives: money, sex, pleasure, and convenience for the masses, and consolidation of capital and control for the elites. The immoderate character and extreme materialism places it properly as a cult. It is dissociation of risk that is the opiate of the masses and elites, too.

Ken B said...

About Althouse's rude response to gathrie on the importance of fashion.
Why is that statement about fashion and space travel in the post if it isn't meant to apply in this case? It's like saying inoculation is more important than space travel, or electricity is more important than mayonnaise: irrelevant. It's a deepity.

chickelit said...

victoria said...
1. Glenn Reynolds is a misoginistic jerk, like, as I observe, most conservatives. Heads up their posteriors.

2. Shirt should have been offensive to everyone, EVERYONE, not just "feminists"

3. Prof. Althouse, you are spot on.


Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny, Go!

Ken B said...

Nice to see Vicki from Pasadena doesn't stereotype. Ann would not approve.

chickelit said...

Michael K said...
It's pretty obvious to me that Althouse has never spent much time, if any, around engineers.

Wasn't her father a chemical engineer? She did like his taste in magazines IIRC.

chickelit said...

Chillblaine quoted 'Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.'
— Andrea Dworkin, 1989


That was probably just her personal experience and disappointment. Nothing more.

harrogate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jim Howard said...

Professor, this kind of click bait is beneath you!

harrogate said...

"It's pretty obvious to me that Althouse has never spent much time, if any, around engineers."

Oh, the horror!

*The engineer fetish being curious enough among the 101st Keyboard Division commenter class, it hardly seems the case that the fetish denotes any more knowledge of engineering than the keyboarders have about fashion.

To wit: Red shirts exemplify fashion, no less than brush-clearing costumes you can sport in Crawford, Texas or flight suits you can wear when your Mission is Accomplished.

Now by all means, blather on about "usefulness" some more. Itself useful in that it makes for some enterrtaining reading.

tim in vermont said...

Now it's all about George W. Bush! Ha ha ha! You couldn't make that up.

tim in vermont said...

Shirt should have been offensive to everyone, EVERYONE, not just "feminists"

Sure, if only you were some kind of totalitarian who could dictate such things.

chickelit said...

The crying part was unmanly. I think he knows that by now.

Freeman Hunt said...

Sometimes you go to a wedding and the wedding dress is tacky or the bridesmaids' dresses are hideous. You don't complain to the bride, nor do you use social media to shame her. Unless, of course, you're a complete jerk.

kcom said...

"In the broad span of human culture, fashion is more important than space travel."

And in the broad span of human culture, taking a crap is more important (and more universal) than fashion. Should we focus on that to the exclusion of fashion and lots of other things? It's clearly more fundamental.

Unknown said...

"Ultimately, though, he is responsible for dressing himself appropriately for the situation and there's no reason that anyone should have to refrain from criticizing him when he chose not to dress appropriately."

I implore you, acm, to show me who has tried to get any of the little miss pissypants to "refrain from criticizing" on their Twit accounts or elsewhere. Bet you can't. What's going on is simple: fragile narcissist bigot makes narrow-minded and selfish comment on Twitter, and many people mock her comment and/or identify it for the petty, carping screed that it is.

This is what's called "give and take," and it's what spirited debate looks like. "My, what a stupid and revealingly harpyish thing to say" and "Shut up!" are not the same comment, nor do they mean the same thing. Indeed, how will I get my fun mocking you if I don't first support a forum where you can display your stunted emotions and crabbed intellect?

Who is saying shut up? Look right here, I'm ASKING for your reply. Of course, if the result of this interchange is that you think twice (in other words, police yourself and your urge to bleat out your uncontemplated reactions instantly) and refrain from posting such ridiculous nick-picking BS in the future, we would all be better served. But don't hide behind the notion that you are being kept from being a public dolt by anything we do.

Douglas said...

What commenter #1, Bobby R said.

richard mcenroe said...

fashion is more important than space travel.

Ain't that just like a woman...

kcom said...

"Fashion is ambiguous. You need to think about what you want to say with clothing."

Perhaps some people don't want to waste their time saying something with clothing when they could say what they cared about with other means? Or are you saying that everyone else has to live their life according to what's important to you? That's something you need to think deeply on. Why does the world need to revolve around your interests?

Douglas said...

BTW, I thought the shirt was delightfully tacky. I'd wear it anywhere, except to a faculty meeting (not being brave enough for that).

CB_Editor said...

I'm going to ask again:

Specifically, what is offensive about the shirt?

A portion of the comments here say things like, "To start off, I think the shirt was inappropriate."

Why?

More specifically, what makes the shirt inappropriate without requiring an inferral on your part?

Because, to be honest, I do not hold the right not to be able to infer offense from someone's attire far above Junk Philosophy status.

chickelit said...

harrogate is not enjoying the pendulum swing we're experiencing.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Some dumb broad gets her panties in a bunch about a shirt.

Not a single of these feminazi's has any value to society. Maybe if a non idiot woman incapable of bearing children needed a surrogate womb.

Hagar said...

— and it's undeniable that he intended to send a message —

B.S., Professor. Nerds are nerds and this crew has lived a rather sheltered life up to now.
That's all there was to it.

harrogate said...

Tim I referenced Bush there because he was pretty masterful at using fashion rhetorically and to immense effect. Certainly fashion matters to our perceptions of one another and at the ballot box no less than on the red carpet. It certainly does trump space travel in the broader context of human culture. The Yankees' home uniform: discuss as symbol.

It's not about Bush: he serves to exemplify the point.

rhhardin said...

The resolution was that the sheep could stay but the lingerie had to go.

Mark O said...

This seems about right to me. (h/t Glenn)

The offending shirt which was made for the scientist by a female friend, has received outrage from several outlets, most notably the Verge, for depicting leotard wearing women, and forced Taylor to make a very public apology where he choked back tears. What should be the greatest day of his life has now been tarnished by the wide variety of hate and harassment he has received over wearing the offending item. Harassers made one of the most brilliant men in science cry for his choice of clothing. It would be almost comical if it wasn’t so horrifying

~N. said...

"Online lynch mob" is different than "lynch mob". It's come to mean this sort of hashtag "activism" and piling on, not someone showing up at your door and harming you. However, it can be damaging to a person's reputation, as it has been to Matt Taylor. Now people are claiming he's sexist, they're questioning his appropriateness as a father to a young daughter, etc.

Plus, Glen Reynolds was outright accused of publishing Rose Eveleth's personal information and asking his readers to attack her. That's a blatant, provable lie, and is probably libelous and actionable.

The whole thing is so stupid and represents everything I loathe about what passes for "feminism" these days.

Yeah, he probably should have worn something more subdued, but the shirt was not chosen out of malice towards women. That's no reason, however, to single him out and assume the worst about him and then steal his justly deserved moment in the sun. Over a shirt. A stupid, silly shirt.

But that's why more and more people are rejecting this whiny, victim-y brand of "feminism", usually perpetrated by spoiled white girls.

I also would like to see actual proof of this doxxing stuff, 'cuz I wouldn't put it past one of those nasty women to either make that up, or do it themselves and try to pin it on someone else.

Mark O said...

Careful, it is well known that women don't lie about doxxing.

Mark O said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcocean said...

Whistle while you work,
Mussolini made a shirt,
Hitler wore it,
Britain tore it,
Now its in the Dirt.

Ken B said...

Althouse has repeatedly stated he intended to send a message. I and several others have presented evidence and arguments that this is a crock. I have seen no rebuttal of any of these by Althouse, Meade, or any of the other scolds. This assertion is central to Althouse's argument.

Althouse's argument fails on its face anyway. When asked if it matters that the shirt was made by a woman, and given to him by a woman AA denies this has any relevance. But if the shirt is to be seen as a message not just poor judgment, and that is Althouse's central argument, then it is relevant because it goes to intent and meaning. Cannot have it both ways.

Joe said...

If I get this straight, Althouse's thesis is that STEM is great for women as long as they can be fashionable.

Newsflash; most managers of STEM professionals want results and don't give a rat's ass about the other shit. This is how shallow feminism/female equality has become. It reminds me of the comedy cliche where the woman gets a job in fast food and throws a fit about the uniform.

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