Klain is highly regarded at the White House as a good manager with excellent relationships both in the administration and on Capitol Hill. His supervision of the allocation of funds in the stimulus act -- at the time and incredible and complicated government undertaking -- is respected in Washington. He does not have any extensive background in health care but the job is regarded as a managerial challenge...Oh, well, then, that makes perfect sense. Which Supreme Court Justice did he clerk for? And why not hire Kevin Spacey? I'm sure he'd do a convincing job of assuring us that everything is under control. He was excellent delivering lines like "The plural of 'chad' is 'chad'?" and Chad — coincidence?! — is a country in Africa.
A former chief of staff to Vice President Joe Biden and also to then-Vice President Al Gore, Klain is currently President of Case Holdings and General Counsel of Revolution, an investment group. He has clerked for the U.S. Supreme Court and headed up Gore's effort during the 2000 Florida recount and was portrayed in the HBO movie Recount by Kevin Spacey.
And by the way, I thought we'd stopped using the job title "czar." We're back to the retrograde messaging implicit in the title of a long-ago Russian autocrat?
ADDED: It seems that Klain is called a "czar" because Republicans were calling out for a "czar." From The Daily Kos a few days ago:
Thus McCain, as usual, follows in the footsteps of the House crazy person caucus, but now the Republicans demand that Obama institute an "Ebola czar" even after those selfsame Republicans were muttering about abuse of power and tyranny and impeachment over the "czars" the gubbermint already had has been catapulted into the Sunday show orbits of Serious Debate, by mere virtue of Sunday John saying it. We don't have enough czars. We demand more czars! Why isn't Obama leading by appointing czars?And now, here comes Obama, leading by following, appointing a czar. Or a guy to do whatever it is Ron Klain is good at doing who will be titled "czar." What the hell does a czar do? We'll find out when we see what Klain does. He's certainly good for something, like the way he allocated the funds of the stimulus act. We'll find out how that kind of expertise and orientation plays out in the ebola context.
AND: The (unlinkable) OED defines "czar" only as: 1. "The title of the autocrat or emperor of Russia; historically, borne also by Serbian rulers of the 14th c." and 2. "transf. A person having great authority or absolute power; a tyrant, 'boss.'’" But there is a "Draft addition," lingering in "draft" status since 2001: "orig. U.S. A person appointed by a government to recommend and coordinate policy in a particular area and to oversee its implementation." The oldest use is, interestingly enough, beer czar:
1933 S. Walker Night Club Era 167 There are several versions of why Mulrooney quit the job to become the state beer 'Czar.'The most prominent use of "czar" — where the term really took off — was "Drug Czar," applied to Bill Bennett in early 1989, as George H.W. Bush was about to take over the presidency. But it wasn't Bush the Elder who created the position. Congress did that, over the objections of President Reagan. As for the choice of Bennett, the biggest critic, amusingly enough, was Joe Biden:
''What concerns me most is his total lack of background in law enforcement,'' said Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., a Delaware Democrat who is chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.IN THE COMMENTS: Ignorance is Bliss says the Kevin we need to assure us that everything is under control, that all is well, is not Kevin Spacey but Kevin Bacon:
Posts
166 comments:
Qualification?
How about his connection to Dear Leader?
Ebola Theatre.
His supervision of the allocation of funds in the stimulus act -- at the time and incredible and complicated government undertaking -- is respected in Washington.
We all know how well THAT worked...well I guess it did, for the 1%.
This administration isn’t even bothering to pretend to competence any more. Now, it’s the connected class grabbing everything that isn’t nailed down before the next two years are up. The connected know that whoever wins, be it a Clintonista or a Republican, there will some semi-competent people in charge, and it won’t be so easy to loot the Treasury.
Expect bi-partisan outrage over this in any case. Can you imagine what it must be like to be a Democrat Senate or House candidate & have to try & defend something like this in a town meeting? I don't know if the Democratic Control of the Senate coffin needed any more nails, but this is a Home Depot aisle full of them.
Klein is the. Ideal man to streamline court procedures that will facilitate malpractice suits in Texas.
We want an Ebola Czar!
NO! Not that one!
Who better than a rat to oversee a pestilence?
"Stateside, at a military camp outside of Gettysburg, a young post commander named Dwight David Eisenhower. He ignored Washington’s advice to ignore the disease. Instead, he developed health protocols that broke the back of the [flu's] run through the ranks. Impressed with the success of his methods, the Army ordered Eisenhower to dispatch his staff to other camps to train them on how to rein in influenza."
Put a military man in charge.
Read an interesting commentary the other day referencing Obama's naming of these 'czars'...
"...Our system is designed to discourage the kind of sycophants and yes-men who will be endlessly loyal to the president. Think what the executive branch would look like if it were populated only by people who owed their careers to Obama. This is exactly what Obama has been fitfully trying to do, going around the cabinet secretaries by appointing “czars” who answer only to the president and are creatures of his will.
...Ours is not supposed to be a system of personal loyalty to the president. It never has been, and to expect it is an affront to the whole American political system."
http://thefederalist.com/2014/10/14/panettas-disloyalty-to-the-president-is-how-its-supposed-to-work/
And why not hire Kevin Spacey? I'm sure he'd do a convincing job of assuring us that everything is under control.
If you want an actor to convince us that all is well, ya gotta go with Kevin Bacon
"This administration isn’t even bothering to pretend to competence any more."
Yeah. They have to know what it looks like to put a political operative in this position. They must not care.
garage mahal:
"We want an Ebola Czar!
"NO! Not that one!"
Wow, you've really got our number. (Paging Jonathan Haidt.)
I didn't want an Ebola Czar because the responsibilities for handling a public health crisis are already vested in existing positions. I would like the people in those positions to do their jobs, and do them well.
But if we must have an Ebola Czar, I would rather it be someone with outstanding scientific/medical expertise, who has also held major managerial responsibilities.
"Expect bi-partisan outrage over this in any case."
That could be the point. Squirrel!
Armstrong & Getty this morning suggested:
Ebola Ayatollah
From an historical perspective: It's odd to call someone a "Czar" when he works with a group named "Revolution."
On the other hand, consider the investment group's ideology: "A revolution's success rests in the power of its beliefs. When enough people participate in the revolution, embracing its beliefs and acting upon them, a 'tipping point' is reached: The status quo is no longer acceptable and everyone becomes a revolutionary."
Klain can bring to the job all the managerial skills that produced Joe Biden's public embarrassments and Al Gore's outreach to Buddhist priest political contributions. What's especially frustrating is that the President is overlooking someone who's a former health care professional, who made school lunches better and got Americans to move and to drink more water, the perfect Ebola czarina--Michelle Obama.
Qualifications??
Is his resume empty?
At this point I've become convinced that Obama enjoys trolling conservatives. I really see no other explanation.
Doctor, schmoctor. The guy's a lawyer. They know everything. Furthermore, he went to Harvard Law and was editor of the Law Review, so he knows more than ordinary lawyers. We should use lawyers for everything.
[/sarc]
This is so stupid.
If you brought in an infectious disease expert, with experience with MSF in Africa, I would applaud. But you are basically bringing in someone who knows even less about this than the head of the CDC.
And I notice still no mention of that random hack in charge of some of this stuff over in HHS (right?).
"Czar" is one syllable. "Ap·pa·rat·chik" is four. That's why.
* * *
The goal seems to be a title that connotes authority, decisiveness, independence, and a hereness wherein which the buck stops. Czar connotes only authority of the most arbitrary kind. We can do better.
Rajah? Sun King? Impresario?
Lord Protector fits the definition, but doesn't roll off the tongue.
Maybe we can use a football metaphor: Ron Klain, Ebola Nose Tackle.
Larry J said...
We should use lawyers for everything.
I'd suggest using them for bushmeat, but who knows what kinds of diseases you might catch.
Of course Czar is Russian for Caesar, the Russians having once claimed to be the true Roman Empire's successor left on earth. The Germans wanted the title too, and translated Caesar as Kaiser.
Smooth liar political BS skills are the only skill that are allowed in Obama's Fairytale Land.
Too bad there aren't any spectacularly accomplished retired neurosurgeons available who understand, like, medicine and illness. I mean, you wouldn't want Ben Carson or someone like that on deck, would you?
How about hiring a nurse practitioner then?
Another freaking commie lawyer???
We already HAD paid full-time government employees in charge of dealing with this, including a specific appointee in charge of managing threats from potential epidemics.
Under Obolacare, it's sleazy political fixers all the way down.
Ron Klain as Ebola Czar should work out for the American people about as well as did Jamie Gorelick while Vice Chairman at Fannie Mae.
We already have an Ebola Czarina. She was sidelined three years ago for bid-rigging in favor of a billionaire Dem bundler, Ron Perleman (of Revlon fame).
We already HAD paid full-time government employees in charge of dealing with this, including a specific appointee in charge of managing threats from potential epidemics.
And an entire agency dedicated to controling disease. I bet there is someone down the chain who would be happy to take over and do this thing properly and who actually experience.
But none of that can happen if all decisions made are political, rather than medical. So what signal does it send that you've appointed a freaking lawyer to this job???
"Allocating stimulus funds" = "handing out patronage checks".
Great, the Chief Epidemiologist's chief qualification for his job is that he was Obama's bag-man in 2009.
Obama's priority is protecting himself from accountability, not protecting the American people from an epidemic.
A high degree of public concern means one thing in DC. That a lot of money is going to be thrown at the problem.
Klain's job is to make sure the money goes into the right pockets without any unpleasantness.
"...Put a military man in charge."
The Surgeon General?
Saying that we need a new bureaucrat to handle this problem is an admission that the CDC is not fit for purpose.
Do you really need healthcare experience for this job? Infectious disease expertise isn't that hard to come by. I think this job calls for someone who will listen to the experts and can then oversee the implementation of their guidance.
That means you need someone who's a good manager and who isn't afraid to kick the asses of some of the morons at the CDC. I would say having someone who isn't part of the medical field is actually better, since he's not going to be bound by professional decorum or soft-petal thing in order to keep friends and protect his future career prospects. Can this guy handle it? I don't know. I do know I'd be fine if, say, David Patreus was named Ebola Czar.
Why not an Ebola Czarina? You all are a bunch of sexists.
Kevin Spacey played Ron klain in an HBO movie. Kevin Spacey died of Ebola in Outbreak. Coincidence? I think not.
The actions of the administration make sense if you always remember to look at anything it does in a purely political light. Of course appointing some Czar isn't going to realistically do any good at this stage. That's not what this is about. It's pretty pathetic really.
Because Obama is all about PR, and so is Ron?
Because Obama likes it when people die in Texas? We may get a serious response at some point, but it will require Ebola hitting NY.
The solution to a poorly run government managed operation is another layer of government. They don't replace incompetence or fix it, they just water it down.
The DOW, up 300 just now, approves. Then again, Czar Klain is going to protect Obama and the 1%.
Do you really need healthcare experience for this job?
Depends on what 'this job' is. If it's a PR/political bullshit job, for instance, a lawyer sounds like a great choice.
I would rather find somebody competent at CDC and give them the reigns. Baring that, bring in somebody from MSF to consult. Hell, bring one of the Nigerian officials over and follow their recommendations, since they seem to have gotten this locked down.
garage mahal said...
We want an Ebola Czar!
NO! Not that one!
Really Garage, that's the best you can do?
So you don't think he's remotely qualified, either?
What Supreme Court Justice did Klain clerk for?
White.
White privilege!
It's good to have a Czar just in case you need to issue Ukases.
An Ayatollah would have to issue fatwas.
Cleared that up for you.
Toby:
"Do you really need healthcare experience for this job? Infectious disease expertise isn't that hard to come by. I think this job calls for someone who will listen to the experts and can then oversee the implementation of their guidance."
You make good points, and I'm almost convinced - but we already say of the elected leaders that it's not their job to be the expert, but to listen to them, make sound decisions, then follow through.
Is it possible for someone outside the medical field do a great job in this role? Maybe. Might Klain? Sure, for all I know he will.
But I would still prefer someone who is a subject matter expert - not to function as the Super- Subject-Matter-Expert here, but to think critically on both big-picture and technical levels about the experts' input. And to ask questions of them that a political fixer simply wouldn't know to ask.
Hey, Solyndra was a rousing success! So why not?
I also thought it was a weird choice, but Klain is AT LEAST 5 to 10 times smarter than any one else in the Obama administration. Given what is at stake (lives) and my guess that Klain will want to come out of this looking good and not someone who caused ebola to get out of control, I think he is about as good of choice as we could have hoped for.
Turns out that his specialty is delaying announcements embarrassing to the Obama Admin until elections pass.
Just the kind of honest broker we need at this time!
I am pretty sure that Obama is just doing this to whip up the Republican base before the election.
Armstrong & Getty this morning suggested:
Ebola Ayatollah
I stopped listening in April after about seven years, from show sameness.
Success was turned into too much of a formula, I guess.
It's still a good show if you're not tired of it yet.
"We want an Ebola Czar!/NO! Not that one!"
Yeah, I'm just seeing that we got a "czar" because McCain and other Republicans were demanding a "czar."
It's not surprising if they advance to saying "No! Not that one," but I wasn't calling for a czar or paying attention to the calls for a czar, and I just read the first article I saw on the subject of naming Klain and reading that article to see why he was qualified, the paragraphs I quote in this post.
You can extrapolate the nature of the job, perhaps, from Klain's resume. So what is the job? Obviously, Klain has qualifications, but what is the job, if these are the qualifications?
Rush is going on and on about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, missing the entire point of the gunned-up opposition to the war.
A business deal between media and terrorists and Democrats. Blow up something and we'll make it a narrative of failure for ratings, and for votes, respectively.
The interests of the US take second place to both.
As they do here.
When you wish upon a tsar
So you don't think he's remotely qualified, either?
Let's be real. Conservatives would nag anyone that Obama appointed.
Not good enough!
OMG... So Obama hires a political hack lawyer to head the Ebola coordination?
Simply his job is to cover the DEMOCRATS and Obama from more embarrassment for surely he has ZERO experience at anything but being a Lawyer and Democrat operative!!!!
Hope for change in 2014. Do you now see why we must vote every DEMOCRAT out of office? Obama and the Dems will be the death of this country yet unless they are VOTED OUT.
Damage control.
garage mahal said...
So you don't think he's remotely qualified, either?
Let's be real. Conservatives would nag anyone that Obama appointed.
Not good enough!
That's not even remotely true of conservatives. It's only true of your view of conservatives. And a fucked up and infantile view it is, too.
The demand for a "Czar" is a mock gesture to the fore days of Obama's administration. Today, it is a mock gesture to the subpar president who shanks as much as he slices.
There's only one possible explanation for why Ron Klain was chosen. Lanny Davis must have been unavailable.
rhhardin:
"Rush is going on and on about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq"
I'm largely on your side and Rush's, but consider:
It was known and obvious that Iraq had chemical weapons. Some on the left argued that since we didn't promptly find stockpiles, Saddam Hussein must have destroyed them all in secret and, for pride or regime security, just not been willing to admit it - right up until we rolled in.
So as the reports of coalition forces finding chemical shells and rockets roll in, those who were against the war say, Well, big deal, he missed some. Just a few rusty old shells anyway - nothing to go to war over.
[Point of order: Into the 1990s, civilians in France were still being injured occasionally by mustard shells launched in WWI. "Rusty old shell" does not render mustard, sarin or VX safe.]
Add it all up, and we've found quite a bit of nerve agent and mustard. But how many of those who were against the war would have been convinced in advance if we could have known that was all we'd find? [Note: I've read the Duelfer Report and I realize it wasn't - but the rest (scientist keeping tularemia in his personal fridge) is easier for opponents of the war to dismiss than loaded rockets.] How many who supported the war principally based on the WMD angle would have done so if they'd known that the actual weapons were just chemical?
My guess is, IF Rove was behind the relative silence on these finds, that's why. I don't admire it, but I can make some sense of it.
Alternatively, as one guy who personally knows there were still chemical weapons asked me rhetorically, "What's the one thing more embarrassing for this administration [Bush at the time] than launching a war over WMD and then not finding any?" [Yes, I know - one of only 22 causes, but that one was emphasized because it was the one the largest number of people and governments could agree on.]
In retrospect I think the answer is, Launching a war over WMD and then losing track of them.
If you just can't for garage's next comment, just follow Kos on twitter.
garage mahal said...
So you don't think he's remotely qualified, either?
Let's be real. Conservatives would nag anyone that Obama appointed.
Not good enough!
10/17/14, 12:25 PM
OK, BUT do you think he is qualified? A simple yes or no would work verses the "look squirrel" response you gave.
Idiots all the way down.
I think this could end up being a good move for Obama.
Consider that we have very few cases of Ebola right now. Consider that the media has done it's job and blown this way out of proportion, helping Republicans blow this way out of proportion.
Now, imagine if a week or two from now, we have no more cases of Ebola and everything is fine and the new headlines in the news are about something completely different.
Who do you want in charge? Karl Rove. And this guy is the Karl Rove of Democrats.
Of course, if Bush would have appointed Karl Rove to help with Katrina, the US would have exploded in rage.
But it's a smart thing for Obama to have done this, because the media and Democrats (But I repeat myself) aren't going to call this guy the Karl Rove of Democrats, they are going to call him a good choice. A competent choice.
And, if this Ebola outbreak turns into a big nothing burger, which I'm sure the Obama Administration expects, then it's a brilliant pick.
On the other hand, if Ebola considers to spread, well, hey, as Garage Mahal might say, "It's not Obama's fault!"
OK, BUT do you think he is qualified? A simple yes or no would work
Yes.
garage mahal said...
OK, BUT do you think he is qualified? A simple yes or no would work
Yes.
10/17/14, 12:48 PM
Thank you. Bonus question, why?
Do you think his managerial experience is key and outweighs his lack of medical experience?
I would prefer someone with a medical background (if that position needs to be), as others have noted. My best case is no czar, fire a few of the existing folks involved and appoint someone competent to head the CDC.
Jaw dropping. Elegant. Perfect.
Look, this is going to cost a lot of money. Who is getting the contract to fly all these sick people here and there? Who is going to get a no-bid emergency contract for a few million hazmat suits?
Thermometers. You think there are four or five million thermometers just sitting around? Nope. Needed. Immediately.
No serious person would think that this fight against Ebola can be done with fossil fuels when electric cars and truck need to be brought to bear.
The perfect choice to fight a disease that melts your insides.
"If you want an actor to convince us that all is well, ya gotta go with Kevin Bacon."
Your link didn't work, but I found it anyway and front-paged it with an embedding. Thanks. Brilliant.
Ron Klain? Nothing like expanding government even more with more and more overlaps.
Then who is Dr. Nicole Lurie?
Just two years later, Congress passed the Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act, which created a new assistant secretary for preparedness and response to oversee medical efforts and called for a National Health Security Strategy. The Act established Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority as the focal point within HHS for medical efforts to protect the American civilian population against naturally occurring threats to public health. It specifically says this authority was established to give “an integrated, systematic approach to the development and purchase of the necessary vaccines, drugs, therapies, and diagnostic tools for public health medical emergencies.”
Last year, Congress passed the Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Reauthorization Act of 2013 which keep the programs in effect for another five years.
If you look at any of the information about these pieces of legislation or the office and authorities that were created, this brand new expansion of the federal government was sold to us specifically as a means to fight public health threats like Ebola. That was the entire point of why the office and authorities were created.
In fact, when Sen. Bob Casey was asked if he agreed the U.S. needed an Ebola czar, which some legislators are demanding, he responded: “I don’t, because under the bill we have such a person in HHS already.”
.....Dr. Nicole Lurie, explains that the responsibilities of her office are “to help our country prepare for, respond to and recover from public health threats.” She says her major priority is to help the country prepare for emergencies and to “have the countermeasures—the medicines or vaccines that people might need to use in a public health emergency. So a large part of my office also is responsible for developing those countermeasures.”
http://thefederalist.com/2014/10/14/president-obama-already-has-an-ebola-czar-where-is-she/
In Washington, DC-land, the fact you were a former Supreme Court clerk obviously makes you qualified for everything. I'm surprised they didn't try to tell us what college he went to, what his GPA was and what he got on his SATs, too.
The demand that an Ebola Czar be appointed is an attempt to find somebody, anybody that can be held accountable in the Obama administration.
Talk about Teflon presidencies...
A czar is useful for throwing under the bus later.
But I want a doctor. A real doctor I have confidence in. Someone like Dr. Joycelyn Elders!
Or Dr. Oz.
Or even Dr. Ruth.
Hell, I'd even take Dr. Pepper.
Believe "energy czars" came first, before drug czar. James Schlesinger in the Carter Administration comes to mind.
And, yes, boo! We need a czar to protect the homeland? Why not a Kaiser to protect the Rodina?
There are many people who object to criticism of Obama in this situation. I realize its a difficult situation but these same people were joyfully mocking GWB over Katrina, even to this day.
This is as good a place as any to repeat my old complaint that presidents never seem to appoint a Rasputin for anything.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/six-reasons-panic_816387.html?nopager=1
This article sums it all up.
He doesn't need qualifications.
He's a loyal party apparatchic.
They will hire qualified people to tell him what to say.
This is surprising, why?
Hey, he knows how to spend a trillion dollars without getting anything for it.
IN THE COMMENTS: Ignorance is Bliss says the Kevin we need to assure us that everything is under control, that all is well, is not Kevin Spacey but Kevin Bacon:
On the other hand, perhaps Kevin Spacey was the correct answer.
But if we must have an Ebola Czar, I would rather it be someone with outstanding scientific/medical expertise, who has also held major managerial responsibilities.
Or, perhaps, someone who has studied epidemiology?
Obama apparently only appoints sycophants who are attuned to Obama's base. A true science-based administrator might make decisions that are based on best practices and not politically-correct Progressivism.
If Obama-ebola lucks out this time, this won't hurt him. If a few others who were near the unfortunate Amber Vinson during the hours she was apparently contagious start to become symptomatic, the outrage will be unstoppable.
Accoridng to FOX Ebola panic is already yesterday's thing.
What happened to Dr. Nicole Lurie? You remember her, the Asst Sec at HHS featured in the National Journal:
"July 16, 2013 Lurie's job is to plan for the unthinkable. A global flu pandemic? She has a plan. A bioterror attack? She's on it."
It has also become clear that garage is a diehard Obamadupe. Other than to a few whores in the MSM! Who presumably have tongues in cheeks, it is obvious that this appointment is about politics, not public health.
It is of course possible that Democrats have sunk so low that there simply is no more substance, only politics.
AReasonableMan said...
According to FOX Ebola panic is already yesterday's thing.
According to silly man-child Sheppard Smith (himself hysterical during Katrina), you mean.
It is unreasonable to paint all of FOX with that charge.
Your handle is a parody, right?
1:23 should read: "... whores in the MSM who presumably have...."
Well, he did tweet this part of his resume:
For years, I've taught a course at @Georgetown on political debates
Damn that Swaggery's got a good Smile!
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
According to silly man-child Sheppard Smith
I thought he gave a good account of the forces leading to bullshit panics like this one.
Where do you feel his logic failed him?
Accoridng to FOX Ebola panic is already yesterday's thing.
Wow. Wonder how Shep Smith lasted so long on that gong show.
I would like to see brain scan of someone before and after watching Fox News.
Could every single GOP candidate be wrong? If they all oppose POTUS on Iraq, they could be
This is our new tsar touting the Obama policy that eventually abandoned Iraq to ISIS and looks like it is leading to the fall of Baghdad.
I am sure though that he is the right man to secure our public health.
I think the best way to handle a deadly disease which is spreading in ways we clearly don't understand is to label the whole thing a bullshit attempt to discredit Obama.
Lurie looks like a hippie-burnout case, who probably got the job because she knew Michelle from a Womyn's Studies Symposium - maybe that's not true and Lurie is awesome, but that's how she presents. And the Obama admin is all about optics (actually, all they have is optics), so they know better than to put Lurie in front of the cameras.
AReasonableMan said...
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
According to silly man-child Sheppard Smith
I thought he gave a good account of the forces leading to bullshit panics like this one.
Where do you feel his logic failed him?
OK. School is now in session.
Logic has to start from a true premise, or it can be correct internal 'logic', but lead to false conclusions.
That's the case here.
The key premise he fails to start from, is that, given THIS administration, given THESE ridiculously unqualified lying clowns , panic is in order on any number of things, the Ebola response included.
Were this happening under, say, the Reagan administration, where qualified adults were in charge, then, yes, panic at this stage would be unreasonable.
Schools out.
Though the Cdr or former Cdr of USAMRIID is a perfect fit, they don't have enough juice at Colonel. A retired 3 Star SG knows more about management and the politics and about urgency.
It is useful to say that the military has a ditty that is perfect here, 2 in fact.
"An 80% solution, implemented on time and with vigor and urgency beats the perfect plan implemented late and timidly"
or;
on protocols:
"Everything in War is simple, but in battle, even the simplest things are very hard"
The problem is not about knowing what to do; they knew that.
The problem i that they told us they had been, and were, doing it, and it turnrd out it was all talk, and nothing had actually been done to make the "protocols" work.
garage: "I would like to see brain scan of someone before and after watching Fox News."
LOL
Yes, I'm sure your vast back-woods rural high school level training in Neuroscience and Neuropsychology in addition to your terrific high school contact sports would serve you quite well there.
LOL
There are many people who object to criticism of Obama in this situation. I realize its a difficult situation but these same people were joyfully mocking GWB over Katrina, even to this day.
The difference of course, is that you can't just tell a hurricane it has to hang out in the carribean for 21 days so it won't be dangerous or that it can't have a visa.
His supervision of the allocation of funds in the stimulus act -- at the time and incredible and complicated government undertaking -- is respected in Washington.
They know high-quality graft when they see it.
We already HAD paid full-time government employees in charge of dealing with this, including a specific appointee in charge of managing threats from potential epidemics.
That person wasn't enough to waste money at the level Obama expects. He needs somebody else to chip in and burn more cash.
Kevin Spacey died of Ebola in Outbreak.
Pretty sure he survived. Now, we need Rene Russo as the czar. She barely even looked sick when she was ravaged by the ebola.
Let's be real. Conservatives would nag anyone that Obama appointed.
Not good enough!
Well, garage vouches for his competency. That's good enough for me!
Where do you feel his logic failed him?
...when he couldn't complete studies at University of Mississippi?
Garage Says;
"I would like to see brain scan of someone before and after watching Fox News."
It's not the brain scan that's important, it's how you interpret it.
1) Wow, look at all that activity. All those lies they just heard really stirred them up into a frenzy!
2) Wow, look at the lack of activity. All those lies they just heard really made them stupid and put them in a stupor!
3) Wow, the same exact activity before and after all those lies? It just goes to show, not even lies can penetrate the skull of a dyed in the wool rethuglican!
Were this happening under, say, the Reagan administration, where qualified adults were in charge, then, yes, panic at this stage would be unreasonable.
Really? The guy that ignored AIDS?
[T]he federal government not ten years ago created and funded a brand new office in the Health and Human Services Department specifically to coordinate preparation for and response to public health threats like Ebola. The woman who heads that office, and reports directly to the HHS secretary, has been mysteriously invisible from the public handling of this threat. And she's still on the job even though three years ago she was embroiled in a huge scandal of funneling a major stream of funding to a company with ties to a Democratic donor--and away from a company that was developing a treatment now being used on Ebola patients.
That's why they needed a scandal goalie for the job.
"I thought he gave a good account of the forces leading to bullshit panics like this one."
This is the same Democrat Shill who went bonkers over Hurricane Katrina.
Shep Smith is better suited for MSNBC.
I'm not against a political appointee if they can make the government do what it needs to do.
I don't want another "expert" who can't do anything to make different parts of the government enforce quarantines and impose standards.
It's more about politics than how the disease infects cells.
I would like to see brain scan of someone before and after watching Fox News.
Who at Daily Kos will tell you how to interpret it? Oh wait, they already have.
Honestly, I was willing to wait and see if we had any secondary cases, despite thinking the CDC was unnecessarily downplaying the actual infectiousness of Ebola, however then the first nurse came down with it. And then Frieden said this:
"For any hospital anywhere in the country that has a confirmed case of Ebola, we will put a team on the ground within hours," CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden told reporters. The response team will include experts in infection control, protective equipment and experimental therapies. A team such as that, Frieden said, might have prevented a Dallas nurse from contracting the disease.
And I thought, were you seriously not doing this already?? I had assumed they were doing their actual jobs until that point, while spinning in public. I was apparently wrong.
"I wish we had put a team like this on the ground the day the first patient was diagnosed. That might have prevented this infection," Frieden said.
Exactly. Pure rank stupidity.
On Feb. 5, 1986, [Reagan] made a surprise visit to the Department of Health and Human Services where he said, “One of our highest public health priorities is going to be continuing to find a cure for AIDS.” He also announced that he’d tasked Surgeon General C. Everett Koop to prepare a major report on the disease.
The administration increased AIDS funding requests from $8 million in 1982 to $26.5 million in 1983, which Congress bumped to $44 million, a number that doubled every year thereafter during Reagan’s presidency.
What garage is thinking about is a fictional movie called "The Reagans" produced by a bunch of Reagan haters.
Tim in Vermont: "What garage is thinking about is a fictional movie called "The Reagans" produced by a bunch of Reagan haters."
LOL
You wrote "garage" and "thinking" in the same sentence.
So does the old Czar report to the new Czar or what?
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/101514-721986-where-is-obama-administration-preparedness-leader-nicole-lurie-since-ebola.htm
Ya know, the dead guys friends and relatives are still ebola free. Hate to admit it, but I'm beginning to worry Obama may have been right, it's not that big of a deal.
Was Jamie Gorelick busy or something?
garage mahal said...
So you don't think he's remotely qualified, either?
Let's be real. Conservatives would nag anyone that Obama appointed.
Not good enough!
So, since "Conservatives would nag anyone that Obama appointed", it's therefore good for Obama to appoint someone who's totally unqualified?
Did you spend even a second thinking about that before you offered it up? Did it occur to you that the proper response to "the other side will attack no matter what" is "so let's offer someone who makes them look like fools when they attack"?
I'm curious, do you have any credibility that you're afraid of destroying? Or is nothing more important than supporting the team?
Ya know, the dead guys friends and relatives are still ebola free. Hate to admit it, but I'm beginning to worry Obama may have been right, it's not that big of a deal.
Two of the nurses are sick. I'm glad his family is doing well. I think what happens is the disease gets more and more infectious the further along you go, so the people in Africa who have been hit hardest are family and friends who prepped the body or lived with a patient in the end stages, and healthcare workers. Maybe in this country it will be mostly healthcare workers who are front lines.
It is highly infectious, though. And with such a high mortality rate you don't play around.
garage: "Really? The guy that ignored AIDS?"
AIDS wasn't even termed "AIDS" until 1982 and the lead researchers were still in disagreement about what it was all about, but hey, whatever: it's all Reagans fault.
FullMoon said...
Ya know, the dead guys friends and relatives are still ebola free. Hate to admit it, but I'm beginning to worry Obama may have been right, it's not that big of a deal.
I don't know why you have a problem admitting this. Obama is lawyer, all he is doing is repeating the current best practice advice that he is getting from medical experts. Given that they already have a fair amount of experience with this particular pathogen it is not surprising that this advice appears to be largely accurate.
So that's why Obama put a political operative who teaches a course in "political debate" at Georgetown in charge of the whole thing.
And nominates for Surgeon General a man whose only experience outside of his doctoring was organizing "Doctors for Obama."
Admit it. The WH is run by political hacks right now and you love it.
Hate to admit it, but I'm beginning to worry Obama may have been right, it's not that big of a deal.
I would hope that it is NOT a big deal and that people are spared suffering, and we may then be relieved we dodged a bullet.
In any case, the Obama CDC looks incompetent and disorganized, perhaps making people want to put adults back in charge.
FullMoon said...
Ya know, the dead guys friends and relatives are still ebola free. Hate to admit it, but I'm beginning to worry Obama may have been right, it's not that big of a deal.
I don't know why you have a problem admitting this. Obama is lawyer, all he is doing is repeating the current best practice advice that he is getting from medical experts. Given that they already have a fair amount of experience with this particular pathogen it is not surprising that this advice appears to be largely accurate.
Yeah, well, even a blind hog can stop a clock twice a day, I suppose.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
Ya know, the dead guys friends and relatives are still ebola free. Hate to admit it, but I'm beginning to worry Obama may have been right, it's not that big of a deal.
I don't know why you have a problem admitting this. Obama is lawyer, all he is doing is repeating the current best practice advice that he is getting from medical experts. Given that they already have a fair amount of experience with this particular pathogen it is not surprising that this advice appears to be largely accurate.
10/17/14, 2:42 PM
--------------------------------------
One hundred and people a day enter the US from the hot zone countries. That's roughly 1000 a week. Obama is playing dice with our welfare..so far he hasn't crapped out. The odds will catch up and then...it will be somebody else's' fault.
A qualified Ebola Czar would close our borders immediately. Obama's Czar Klain will use legalese to reassure us incoming flights from Africa carry no risk.
This is the crook responsible for the fraud rampant in the stimulus boondoggle?6 years later we still have billions of dollars missing and unaccounted for and this asshole isn't in jail, but getting another high-profile government gig? Geezus, ain't it great to be a big-government democrat party member?
The reason the family of the Liberian patient didn't get sick is that the nurses got sick instead. He was at the hospital instead of being at home. If he hadn't gone in, the nurses would be fine and the family sick.
Nothing changed. R0=2. The disease still won.
The advice of experts about this disease has been consistently wrong. Nothing has stopped it, except temporarily. The numbers keep going up. We can shift things around a bit, but until we have a working quarantine, in Africa and in the US, it will keep coming.
Here's the thing-
There were people in Liberia who denied that this disease existed, or that it was a real problem. How'd that go for them? How's that working out?
The states in Africa that took it seriously, Senegal and Nigeria, have enacted quarantines that have worked (so far). No flights, no one coming in. It won't keep the disease out forever, but it buys them time.
If we deny the problem, we are in the category of the ignorant and not the wise.
Nothing changed. R0=2. The disease still won.
Indeed. Did you see that NPR 'Ebola's totally not as bad as HIV' chart with the Ro's. They were perfectly happy with the idea of an Ro of 1.5 or 2.
You have to get Ro under 1 or you get an epidemic, folks. Now we're up for Round 2.
And on the Ro=2 business, we're still well within the incubation period for many of the hospital workers. We need to wait a couple weeks to see what the true number for this first patient is...
Yeah, Shanna, HIV at least takes years to get those two people. Ebola kills them in weeks.
Take this shit seriously, people. The alarmists who simply multiply numbers together have been consistently right. The experts, including those that the President is listening to, have been consistently wrong.
In order to take advantage of being an advanced Western country with a first-rate health system we have to act. The disease isn't going to see that it's in the USA and give up. We have to make decisions and enact them. This won't fix itself.
Ebola Czar Klain was also involved with the Solyndra scandal. So there is that experience dealing with a disaster.
@ John Lynch...What is it you don't get about leading from behind. Obama will later claim credit for holding down the outrageous number of American CO2 breathers after they all stop breathing.
Just imagine a world that no longer has traffic jams, no long lines, no clingers to Religion... it is President Omalthus's pure vision come true.
The experts, including those that the President is listening to, have been consistently wrong.
John - I ran across an article in WashPo that said the reasons we know Frieden is smart and makes good predictions is because he realized things were getting out of control in Africa. In August!!!
I'm pretty sure it was obvious months before that to anyone who was paying attention.
Shanna-
Yeah, I'm some nobody jerk who lives in the middle of nowhere and I saw this was a problem in June.
I'm not very smart, but I can do math. How can I make better predictions than people with real educations and plenty of experience? I'm nobody. I have no qualifications.
That's what really bothers me- the fact that the people at the top of this country always seem to be surprised by what happens on a day to day basis. Why are they always surprised? By obvious and predictable things? It happens over and over again- ISIS, Ebola, Russia, etc. All obvious and easy to see coming.
That's scary.
Totally idiotic. But if Obama had not appointed a bunch of second raters in the first place . . . .
Well, you understand. What is amazing is that nobody already in the government seems to have stepped up to this task. I'm not talking about Obama here but about the highly credentialed but timorous technical experts and the risk adverse (their risk, not ours) weasels on the President's White House staff and Cabinet.
Valerie Jarrett, call your office.
Why are they always surprised? By obvious and predictable things?
The only thing I can figure is that they are like my ex-SIL, they believe if they think something will or won't happen, they are correct. There is no logic to this, they think they can will the results that they want.
I don't know when I started paying attention to this epidemic, but I spent August reading about zoonosis so before August definately.
Klain is an insider Leftist political hack. Unqualified.
Really? The guy that ignored AIDS?
The guy who dramatically increased funding for a disease that impacted only a tiny minority of people and had precious little chance of harming the vast majority of people (note, 30 years later, it's still primarily gay males dealing with it)? Yeah, that guy.
The extent to which the administration sees this as a PR problem rather than a disease problem will determine the result. If they are convinced this is no big deal and will blow over, then having an attack dog who can chew up all the alarmists makes sense.
If it's a real epidemic and kills many, many people then it is going to be very bad for all of us.
Ebola is a public health problem, not a political problem. Obama's appointee, Klain is a political appointment. Klain is a political partisan staffer with no medical background. Exactly how stupid does Obama think the US public is?
Well, naturally, Obama was forced to appoint a "czar" because Republicans demanded one and we all know Obama automatically capitulates to Republican demands.
If you read what Kos Krazies cited you find that the demand (such as it is), isn't quite what they claim:
The congressman said the United States needs a "George Mitchell type character" to lead "one central office that's a clearinghouse" to unify the efforts of government entities like the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Seems like a reasonable if debatable position. I would tend to disagree because Obama already has people in place to do this. The problem is they are either MIA (Lurie) or talking out of their ass (Frieden) at the moment. Klain's role appears to be to spin the message rather than advise from a medical standpoint. Doesn't seem helpful at the moment to anyone except Obama.
. Exactly how stupid does Obama think the US public is?
Very
Next question.
Sometimes you need a good administrator and not an SME. That would've been a good argument to make, I think, if they introduced the science and health advisers who would be working with the guy.
"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job,"
Sometimes somethings are so important that the president should not make a politically motivated appointment. Ebola is a time when the President should appoint the best available person.
The one right person for the job is Clarence J. Peters, Jr., MD.
The Senate, if it is sane, should reject anyone else.
I think lawyers like Ron Klain have a role to play w.r.t. Ebola. After all, there are some things even lab rats won't do.
Big Mike said...
The Senate, if it is sane, should reject anyone else.
Is this an appointment that requires Senate approval?
Big Mike:
Wow. Great pick!
I don't know why you have a problem admitting this. Obama is lawyer, all he is doing is repeating the current best practice advice that he is getting from medical experts. Given that they already have a fair amount of experience with this particular pathogen it is not surprising that this advice appears to be largely accurate.
And the truly funny part is that you don't see the irony of this at all.
Is the director of the CDC on vacation?
Matthew Sablan said...
Sometimes you need a good administrator and not an SME. That would've been a good argument to make, I think, if they introduced the science and health advisers who would be working with the guy.
There are a number of retired three star service doctors (ex-Surgeon Generals) or Public Health Service Admirals who both understand virus's and how to manage/lead crisis situations.
Big Mike, WRT to your doc, we have heard nothing from USAMRIID yet. at this point, I'd like to....
Welcome to Obolacare, everyone.
gerry said
In any case, the Obama CDC looks incompetent and disorganized, perhaps making people want to put adults back in charge.
you mean Republicans in charge.
This is nothing more than political mongering from both sides. And if there are no more deaths, especially from the Duncan Texas case, people will see those who were screaming for travel bans* as fearmongers
* a travel ban sounds good, but if it just means people would do more of what Duncan did, then it will go underground and the illness will pop up with no patient zero
If the man is unqualified, and it sure sounds like it, then the Republics should protest. AND, they should protest - along with MSF - GSK's decision to ready a vaccine for the masses in....wait for it: 2016. No. This will not do. MSF and the WHO went at it way back when, now the UN (WHO ) is admitting they fucked up. Let MSF speak. And Republicans and Democrats, listen to them.
* a travel ban sounds good, but if it just means people would do more of what Duncan did, then it will go underground and the illness will pop up with no patient zero
+++++++++
Why? Why would that happen? There's a ban on passengers originating in West Africa (except for health care workers who will be put in quarantine) - one gets through anyway and .... goes underground? Why? What's the thinking there? You don't have to criminalize the act (necessarily), you just have to not let them board planes in Paris, Brussels etc...with all kinds of "ifs." I don't get why the next patient zero would go underground.
The people relentlessly suggesting that the Obama admin is thnkin of politics and nothing else are themselves consumed with politics. Let's keep our eyes on the prize here. These political commentaries are virtually useless in times like these. Without demonstrating some familiarity with the situation, I just ignore them.
"note, 30 years later, it's still primarily gay males dealing with it"
Um, what?
FullMoon said...
"Ya know, the dead guys friends and relatives are still ebola free. Hate to admit it, but I'm beginning to worry Obama may have been right, it's not that big of a deal."
AReasonableMan said:
"I don't know why you have a problem admitting this. Obama is lawyer..."
First, the family, which was whisked out of Dallas by the local judge and Obama supporter, Clay Jenkins, to a house he owns in the country, have not been through the full incubation period of what is now, 42 days. I think it was the Dallas mayor who gave them a clean bill of health recently but I'd like someone more credible. To get all conspiratorial they (the family) might have already met their end and been incinerated.
Second, the, "Obama is lawyer," which I assume should read, Obama is a lawyer, is incorrect. Obama used to be a lawyer but is currently not licensed to practice in Illinois and neither is Michelle. I believe they both gave up their licenses. You can look it up.
The (unlinkable) OED defines "czar" only as: 1. "The title of the autocrat or emperor of Russia; historically, borne also by Serbian rulers of the 14th c." and 2. "transf. A person having great authority or absolute power; a tyrant, ‘boss.’"
Surely someone above has already said this, but Czar, pronounced 'tsar', is the Slavic-language equivalent of 'Caesar', and is a direct descendent of the title of the Roman emperor. So was the German title 'Kaiser'.
There's no getting around the fact that it refers to a Boss, an Autocrat who rules by fiat. It's the Progressive dream come true, in which we subjects are ruled by a supposedly enlightened and expert Top Dog who gets things done without needing no steenkin' Constitution, or body of law at all.
Sabinal: And if there are no more deaths, especially from the Duncan Texas case, people will see those who were screaming for travel bans* as fearmongers
If by "people" you mean "not-so-bright individuals who have a hard time grasping probabilistic thinking and the reasons for prudent travel restrictions and demonstrably effective quarantines", then, yeah.
But we really don't want people that dumb in charge of public health, do we? Are you that dumb, Sabinal? It seems that way, but to be charitable, I suspect you could be made to understand the stupidity of your Darwin Award-level "reasoning" if the other set of idiots were in the White House and at the CDC.
Sab: * a travel ban sounds good, but if it just means people would do more of what Duncan did, then it will go underground and the illness will pop up with no patient zero
HT: Why? Why would that happen? There's a ban on passengers originating in West Africa (except for health care workers who will be put in quarantine) - one gets through anyway and .... goes underground? Why? What's the thinking there?
There's no thinking here. He's just parroting the moronic talking points about the alleged inefficacy and/or danger of proven disease-control practices being shoveled out by the usual suspects. I doubt even he knows what he means.
A former chief of staff to Vice President Joe Biden and also to then-Vice President Al Gore, Klain is currently President of Case Holdings and General Counsel of Revolution, an investment group. He has clerked for the U.S. Supreme Court and headed up Gore's effort during the 2000 Florida recount
It's funny how a resume can be so impressive from the top looking down, but so thin from the bottom looking up.
Klain's basic job description is "aide." In another era, it would be courtier. He makes himself useful to powerful people, and they recommend him to other powerful people as a useful person. His various jobs have no real similarity to one another, and he has no real expertise.
If you're a President who doesn't want to work very hard, Klain is the kind of person you would get if you threw a pile of resumes off the stairs and chose the one that flew the farthest. Or if you randomly pointed to the guy bringing you coffee and said "go manage the Ebola response."
To put it another way: Klain is exactly the kind of person you pick if you just want the problem to go away. His resume is long enough that you can't be accused of doing nothing, but he doesn't have any independence or expertise that could actually make you make a tough decision.
Slow news Saturday. For that we should thank the good Lord, no? Not that I was anxious or anything. Smile.
So hopefully we will get this under control. As a Democrat and a one time voter for Obama, I still dread the I told you so's. No, they didn't. As I say, it was the pushback, the so-called hysterical people who tried to sort of um point out that maybe , well just maybe it is not the best idea in the world to allow nurses who treat Ebola patients you know, go out in public. Now we have the beginning of some common sense measures.
Anyway, when you're dealing with a disease that is probably more lethal than AIDS, and you don't know much about it (US population), the last thing your really *want* to do is throw caution to the wind. Better to be overcautious than under. To those who scoff at vociferous defenses of more caution, I say - you are not planning to go to a hospital soon or work in one, are you?
This is thanks to the nurses's unions round the world and even to republics in the US Congress who clamored for more to be done. The czar thing is ridiculous (probably - who knows, one never does, I suppose).
Now one more thing - how many times have we heard the word "nurse?" lately. Anyone heard doctor? Not the guy who drove the patient's family out to some other abode in Tex. He wasn't a doctor. So - any DOCTORS treating these patients, or are they valiently sending in the nurses?
I'll stop.
You see ... from his office he could clearly see Chad (or chad) - that qualifies him. Anyhow: while most US citizens who acquired Ebola were medically trained, this is not a requirement. He can do it too.
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