More at "Crafty activists are trolling Hobby Lobby by rearranging in-store craft displays to spell ‘pro-choice’" in The Washington Post.
Shea’s fans — actress Wendi McLendon-Covey and columnist Dan Savage among them — have lauded the stunt as a clever, light-hearted way to draw attention to women’s health and the Hobby Lobby case. Her critics, meanwhile, have dismissed it as childish and misguided, less sticking it to “the man” and more inconveniencing a bunch of frazzled, innocent store employees....I'm torn. Making some noise = free speech. Yeah, speech doesn't necessarily persuade, but that's a good thing. I wouldn't say it's just noise. Speech is valuable precisely because it is not coercive. Sometimes we call speech "compelling," but it depends on what you say... and how you say it.
In either case, what Shea terms a “protest” or a “prank” is almost indistinguishable from trolling — provoking annoyance and fury, merely to infuriate and annoy. That’s not a criticism, but it’s certainly an intriguing commentary on the state of political discourse these days. We have reached a point where the end-game, perhaps necessarily, isn’t to convert hearts and minds — it’s just to make some noise.
The form of expression matters. Here, the speaker appropriates the store's merchandise (and employee labor) as a medium. And the medium is (part of) the message. This prankery strikes me as sort of fun-loving, a way to vent frustration, but I'm distracted by 2 things:
1. "Pro-choice" is the wrong word in the context where the business owners resisted being denied the choice about covering birth control and where that resistance is premised on their religion which they have the right to choose. Those who don't like the choices the business owners have made have the choice to shop elsewhere.
2. The pranksters are taunting those who have taken a strong stand based on religion. Are we really going to taunt people about religion? If you're inclined to say yes, do you really mean it, across the board for all religions, or is this a special willingness to taunt Christians? If it's special for Christians, why is that? Is it because you think it's okay to taunt what you think is the dominant group? If Christians like the ones your protesting against really were dominant, we shouldn't, in a democracy, end up with laws forcing them to do things against their conscience, so I'd say, the existence of the birth control mandate is evidence that they are not the dominant group, in which case, you're harassing a minority. Why would you do that? Is it that you feel safe picking on Christians?
ADDED: Have you ever moved merchandise around in a store as a way to make a political example? I'm trying to remember if I've ever done something like that. Moving books in a bookstore is the most common protest of this sort, like Code Pink's "Move Cheney's Book to the Crime Section of Bookstores!"
I'm seeing a list of 500 fun things to do at WalMart that I'm not going to link to. #1 is "Take shopping carts for the express purpose of filling them and stranding them at strategic locations." I didn't read the whole list, but it made me think of the "Shopping for Others" scene in the movie "Pecker."
Posts
165 comments:
" women’s health"
I want this euphemism to die a thousand deaths. She isn't making colonoscopy art.
And are those condoms? She's so misinformed. This is why this whole issue is so bad for women. It makes people highlight their own ignorance on our behalf.
Some days it seems as though the modern American left's project with regards to religion is to take the wall of separation between church and state and tip it over on top of the faithful, and then jump up and down on the remains.
Not that they've been able to, so far. But I can't help but think they'd like to.
Uh... because Christians don't tend to kill you when you prank them?
"Is you feel safe picking on Christians?"
From guest-blogger Ali G
People feel safe picking on Christians of a particular stripe precisely BECAUSE they're an unpopular minority group-- plus, their religion prohibits them from attacking back!
That's why Christians are such ardent constitutionalists.
For instance, the US is pretty much the only country on the planet that has never executed Catholics for being Catholic. Why? Because the constitution makes it impossible--
Meanwhile, in places like Spain, France, Mexico, England, Germany, Poland--there were more Catholics, but also more persecution since whoever grabbed power could go after whatever religious group they wanted.
We're fortunate to live in a country where might <> right. So we shrug off minor insults because...the alternative is guillotines and firing squads.
Who are these Christians you speak of? Most Christians, hell even a good number of Catholics (and Catholics use birth control at about the same rate as non-Catholics), have no problem with birth control, even the four kinds that the Hobby Lobby owners mistakenly believe are abortifacients.
The pranksters are taunting those who have taken a strong stand based on religion.
Except they are not. How much time do the owners spend walking around their stores? Probably not a lot. Are managers going to tell the managers up the chain about it? Probably not, and they might not even know about it.
Now that the story is going wide on the internet, the management and owners might hear about it. But as Ann said, less sticking it to “the man” and more inconveniencing a bunch of frazzled, innocent store employees....
A couple of further points:
1. Rearranging other people's property to spell your message is closer to vandalism than it is to speech.
2. The Green family (Hobby Lobby's owners) are protestant and would not use rosaries in their prayers, so her hashtag is extra stupid.
I suspect she drives a Prius as well. Surrounded by a cloud of Smug...
Never underestimate the pro abortion zealots ability to crap on peoples religious beliefs.
Their unshakeable belief in their secular humanist socialist religion trumps all.
Such HL protests by the post-Marxist Left are not about presenting a rational discourse for the public to mull over & hopefully, support. They seek not to refute, but to make opposing viewpoints "un-thinkable"
It's rather about "flooding the zone", controlling the discourse by denying the opposing viewpoint any bandwidth for expression. Viewed from this vantage point, the young lady re-arranging the letters at HL is the very model of a (post-)modern Stankhanovite.
I wonder how Jasmine would like it if HL decided to create displays taunting her: We reserve the right to refuse service to tatted pork chops
Which reminds me. Habbib and Mustafa are walking down the street. Habbib says, if Allah doesn't want us to eat pork, why did he wrap the pigs with bacon?
- Krumhorn
Everyone feels safe picking on Christians because there are no consequences for doing so. You won't find a similar relish for picking on Muslims, because there is a distinct tendency to riots and slit throats when the "prophet" is maligned (or even depicted). That is certainly an interesting set of incentives to be pushing, isn't it?
Is it that you feel safe picking on Christians?
Of course it's because they feel safe picking on Christians. Christians turn the other cheek. They aren't going to pick on an atheist like me because they don't know how I'd retaliate and they don't want to find out. And they absolutely will not pick on Moslems because they already know what happens to people who push back against Moslems.
They taunt Christians and Mormons because no harm will come to them. They don't taunt Jews because they will be called brownshirts and accused of inciting pogroms and hate crimes.
And they don't taunt Muslims because they don't want to be killed.
Hobby Lobby is Pro-Choice. You have 16 different birth control methods that they will pay for if you work for them.
So when HR hiring staff puts this person' resume in the round file after checking her public social media trail, she will have more time to troll around stores.
"so I'd say, the existence of the birth control mandate is evidence that they are not the dominant group, in which case, you're harassing a minority."
Well, it's not as if the mandate was put to a vote of our elected representatives. It wasn't. It's a "regulation" imposed by an unelected bureaucracy. In fact, it wasn't put to a vote because it would have doomed Obamacare.
and her response to one of the points you brought up about employee labor
" they were all dudes working there so I dont feel bad.Beside they are letters just like tshirts left every where when people realize they dont like it"
Many fail to see that they are embodying many of the traits they so often criticize organized religion of fostering:
Groupthink, not reasoning for one's self and/or putting group loyalties and the 'cause' first, cutesy in-group identification, the feeling of 'empowerment' that comes with it etc...
There are an uncommon number of fat, tattooed women with a cause. As they degrade their bodies there seems to be a collateral degradation of brain cells. They are very unattractive. Their ideas are sophomoric. Stunts like this are asinine. She is not a customer of the store and making fun, as she is, of both the company and its customers is not a smart or winning strategy.
She should save her "creativity" for new tattoo ideas.
#killinconvenientbabies
"I'm torn"
This is what happens when your social conditioning conflicts with your basic understanding of right vs. wrong.
"This prankery strikes me as sort of fun-loving"
There are times when your child-like fascination with the world is charming. This isn't one of them.
"Pro-choice" is the wrong word...
That was my first thought on reading about this yesterday.
Megan McArdle had a nice post the other day about how both sides picture themselves as the side being bullied.
So Dan Savage likes this idea?
They must have rejected Dan's other idea; to spread communicable diseases on doorknobs, countertops, pens, pencils, keyboards and other public surfaces inside Hobby Lobby stores.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=3092
Althouse said ...
"...special willingness to taunt Christians?"
Of course it is OK to taunt Christians. Because they will not kill you (muslims) or be complete a** wipes (women/gays/libs) when you taunt them. Heck muslims and gays go nuts if you just state facts.
This is no different than the geniuses who respelled the sign "Sign up for class starts at 9:00 a.m." to read "Sign up for ass starts at 9:00 a.m.."
selfie humblebrags that annoy the people you claim to help, are completely unrelated to the actual issue, don't advance you cause in anyway and don't carry a risk.
Behold the modern progressive.
Film of Ms Shea taunting Muslims for the way the Muslims treat women in 5 .. 4 .. 3 .. 2 .. 1 .. oops.
They cut off her head. Too bad. She was so courageous.
#keepyourvaginaoffmywallet.
#keepyourvaginaoffmygovernment
#payforyourshityourselfladies
"From guest-blogger Ali G."
LOL. (I had already caught that.)
No, the leftist would absolutely never do this if the Hobby Lobby plaintiffs were Muslim (and I sort of wish the plaintiffs in that case WERE Muslim as then we'd at least have seen a somewhat different dynamic in the post-ruling debate). I don't think this is solely because leftists fear what Muslims might do to them if they were to insult their religious beliefs. That may be part of it, but there's a more fundamental reason why they don't treat Muslims (or Jews for that matter) the way they treat Christians.
You see, for leftists this is always and has always been about who is perceived to be in power. The leftist believes that Christians (as well as whites, males, straights, and the wealthy) are and have always been the powerful, and thus must be fought against at every turn. Non-Christian religions are not seen by the leftists as a threat, because these are "victim class" groups that could never impose anything on anyone here because the Christians still weild so much power. A lot of these leftists are refugees from Red State America and will tell sob stories of towns that closed down on Sunday, manger scenes on town squares, and various other microaggressions that forced them to move to urban centers as soon as they could.
Playing these "pranks" on Christian (and worse--white, wealthy Christian!) businessowners fits perfectly into the leftist paradigm. Why worry about trampling on religion when that religion is oh so powerful and oppressive in this country? But if these were black Christians--or Muslims, or Jews--they'd be far more conflicted. How can people who are in the "victim class" be the oppressors with their religion? The usual "Uncle Tomming" that they use to discredit minorities who dare veer from the leftist victim party line wouldn't even have to apply here, because the leftist doesn't even have to acknowledge that any oppression is going on. You can't oppress if your religion is weak and put upon!
Why doesn't anyone point out that the obvious purpose of the free contraceptive/abortifacient requirement specified by HHS (not Congress!) was to pick a public fight with those who oppose them for religious reasons, and thus excite the political base?
This woman is a New York State employee. So she has no responsibilities.
"They must have rejected Dan's other idea; to spread communicable diseases on doorknobs, countertops, pens, pencils, keyboards and other public surfaces inside Hobby Lobby stores."
I don't care how noble Dan Savage's cause may have been, or how awful the target of such tactics--this is one of the most disgusting things I ever read someone brag about. Anyone who would try to spread germs is a scumbag, full stop.
Besides, how much more likely are you to get some poor janitor sick who has to come into every room every day to clean up and touches those doorknobs? Probably some low wage worker who really can't afford to take time off for being sick. A true scumbag move.
"Is it that you feel safe picking on Christians?"
The hard left , like Freder, know better than to mess with Muslims. I'll bet he/she won't even mention the 72 virgins as being as myth. The four methods of birth control that Hobby Lobby objects to is an example of their ignorance but the virgins are sacrosanct. It is all about how smart the lefties think they are.
Not only are you right about #1, but I suspect almsot all those "activists" still think Hobby Lobby was opposed to paying for "contraception" in general, rather than four specific methods, two of which are supposed to be "emergency" methods (and are, are they not, now OTC and under $20 a dose?).
This is a guess, from seeing people's expressed beliefs about the subject via Facebook posts.
(It doesn't help, of course, that NARAL's propaganda on this one shows The Pill as "not covered!" compared to Viagra.
But of course, The Pill was never involved in this controversy and HL never wanted to not cover it.)
If only people knew what the hell they were protesting I'd take them a lot more seriously.
I love how this thread has degenerated into a series of comments insulting Muslims by claiming no one would ever insult a Muslim, because they will kill you.
Looks like Prince Fielder in drag.
"Who are these Christians you speak of? Most Christians, hell even a good number of Catholics (and Catholics use birth control at about the same rate as non-Catholics), have no problem with birth control, even the four kinds that the Hobby Lobby owners mistakenly believe are abortifacients."
As my post makes clear, I am talking about a subgroup of Christians that in not dominant, not a majority. That's why they're in the position that democratically arrived-at law is burdening them.
The religious freedom ideology that developed in this country and showed concern about minority groups arose comes from a tradition of Christian subgroups -- all Protestant.
Text in the post referred to in my last comment: "Is it because you think it's okay to taunt what you think is the dominant group? If Christians like the ones your protesting against really were dominant, we shouldn't, in a democracy, end up with laws forcing them to do things against their conscience, so I'd say, the existence of the birth control mandate is evidence that they are not the dominant group, in which case, you're harassing a minority."
"The pranksters are taunting those who have taken a strong stand based on religion. Are we really going to taunt people about religion?"
Yes.
"If you're inclined to say yes, do you really mean it, across the board for all religions, or is this a special willingness to taunt Christians?"
Allah drove an Impala to Valhalla and dating Thor.
"If it's special for Christians, why is that?"
It's not, but they're goofy enough, following Jesus.
"Is it because you think it's okay to taunt what you think is the dominant group?"
Nope, it's fools with cartoon belief systems, holding understanding back about 2,000 years.
"If Christians like the ones your protesting against really were dominant, we shouldn't, in a democracy, end up with laws forcing them to do things against their conscience, so I'd say, the existence of the birth control mandate is evidence that they are not the dominant group, in which case, you're harassing a minority."
You are mistaken. Religious beliefs are weeds, and, though their roots are shallow, their numbers are great, constantly reappearing all over education's garden - and the world - from any dark corner it's never easy to reach, or, sometimes, immediately comprehend.
"Why would you do that?"
I, too, have a cartoon belief system. Meaning, when I was a kid, I absorbed actual cartoons. The Jetson's, Johnny Quest, all kinds of stuff.
So, as a child, my deities promised robot servants, flying cars, and life on other planets - NOT being stuck here with a bunch of whack job "followers" to the stigmata-ed kid of everybody's favorite invisible friend, who all think the weirdoes of ANY OTHER cartoon belief system are violent barbarians after THEY just finished with slavery in America, and it's whatnot, somewhere around the same time the Mormons started coming to their senses, if that's possible.
THAT's why I'd do it and, I think, as a kinda smart black guy, it's a damn fine reason and way to spend a lifetime of sorrow.
"Is it that you feel safe picking on Christians?"
Lady, I told you, the first time I told a Christian I didn't believe in God they punched me - hard - right in the face with a closed fist.
As a foster child out here alone, I've never found a reason to feel safe around religion,...
Oh - I almost forgot:
And slavery. Can't forget slavery. Went with the Bible.
Sure - it fell by the Bible, too - but anything that can work both spells doesn't seem necessary, if you ask me.
""'so I'd say, the existence of the birth control mandate is evidence that they are not the dominant group, in which case, you're harassing a minority.' Well, it's not as if the mandate was put to a vote of our elected representatives. It wasn't. It's a "regulation" imposed by an unelected bureaucracy. In fact, it wasn't put to a vote because it would have doomed Obamacare."
That's why I said "evidence" and not "conclusive proof." There was definitely a dysfunction in the democracy here, and as I've written in earlier posts on Hobby Lobby, the exception to RFRA could have been put in the ACA but it would not have passed.
Fat girls with tattoos are not the beneficiaries of "pro-choice" on the part of males.
Does she live in a tiny house? That's all I want to know.
Almost every murder in this country is committed by Christians, being illogical because that's the basis of their reasoning, and these comments are going on about how nobody will get hurt by Jesus freaks because they don't kill in the same way as the others.
Sorry, folks, but - in assessing who the good guys are - letting Buddhists walk around freely doesn't excuse passing down for centuries an unnatural hatred for those carrying The Mark of Ham.
Considering the hidden truths of our lives (and just as whites don't understand America, like blacks do, because of them) Christians have no - I repeat NO - moral high ground, over Arabs, to speak of. They, too, are a violent, ignorant, arrogant breed of believer and nothing more, always looking for someone to weaker to torment until made to stop, all glory be to God.
You shame yourselves,...
So when HR hiring staff puts this person' resume in the round file after checking her public social media trail, she will have more time to troll around stores.
She is a NY state public employee. Didn't you recognize her? You can find her in any DMV or post office. She'll have that job and excellent benefits for the rest of her unproductive life.
- Krumhorn
Typical, they're upset that Hobby Lobby employees are not getting more free stuff so they harass the Hobby Lobby employees.
I'm pro-choice too. I want the neo fascist leftwing government out of my vagina, out of my wallet, out of my church, out of my health insurance, and out of my business.
Apparently, it is acceptable to taunt overweight women while claiming to be non-attacking Christians. Apparently without recognizing the irony.
Who are these Christians you speak of? Most Christians, hell even a good number of Catholics (and Catholics use birth control at about the same rate as non-Catholics), have no problem with birth control, even the four kinds that the Hobby Lobby owners mistakenly believe are abortifacients.
I think this has to do more with kicking workers in the nuts, once again, and defying the black guy in the White House. HL didn't realize they were providing abortion drugs until 2010? Most of their cheap plastic flowers and crosses are made in China, home of forced abortions.
Sorry but the rosary reference makes it a hate crime, even if Hobby Lobby isn't Catholic.
Shaking with sadness/anger, don't mess with the Rosary!
I love how this thread has degenerated into a series of comments insulting Muslims by claiming no one would ever insult a Muslim, because they will kill you.
How is it an insult? It is an accurate depiction of history. Islam is proud of the fact that they kill people who "insult" Allah. People who openly criticize Islam for either artistic (Rushdie) or political (Hirsi Ali) are sentenced to death.
I find it difficult to criticize this girl for this. She is unattractive and gross looking. And its a story about sex and pregnancy.
She is probably in a lot of pain (oh but she is smiling in the pictures!) And is lashing out hoping it diminishes her own pain.
Women like her are all sorts of messed up. I feel sorry for her and I can bet the people at hobby lobby do too.
April Apple said...
"I'm pro-choice too. I want the neo fascist leftwing government out of my vagina, out of my wallet, out of my church, out of my health insurance, and out of my business."
I get the wallet, church, health insurance, and business stuff. But how exactly (without over-sharing, please) is the "neo fascist leftwing government" in your vagina? And more importantly — how do you see getting it out?
Too bad Orin Porter Rockwell has gone to his reward. Mormons got a lot more respect when he was in his prime.
Abortion and birth control are just theoretical concepts to someone with her looks and personality.
I have been tempted to go into bookstores and take a piss on the stacks of books written by librul asses like Gore or Clinton or Obama or Michael Moore. But I haven't. These libruls have mental problems.
Carrie Nation used a hatchet to express her opinion via "hatchetations". How far the progressives have fallen, reduced to rearranging merchandise.
"The pranksters are taunting those who have taken a strong stand based on religion. Are we really going to taunt people about religion? If you're inclined to say yes, do you really mean it, across the board for all religions, or is this a special willingness to taunt Christians? If it's special for Christians, why is that? Is it because you think it's okay to taunt what you think is the dominant group? If Christians like the ones your protesting against really were dominant, we shouldn't, in a democracy, end up with laws forcing them to do things against their conscience, so I'd say, the existence of the birth control mandate is evidence that they are not the dominant group, in which case, you're harassing a minority. Why would you do that? Is it that you feel safe picking on Christians?"
A little late to the party, but:
Yes, "we" are going to taunt people about religion. Have been doing it for a while.
Yes, across the board, but mostly against Christians. Buddhism = good, compassionate: the favorite religion of secular humanists; Islam = the oppressed Other. Christians are the Man, religiously speaking, and it helps that the Man does not kill opponents.
Yes, for progressives, it is right to force people to do things against their conscience, because the anointed know people's conscience just happens to be wrong (or, in a clever variation, know that people really don't know what's in their conscience or believe what it tells them anyway).
Yes, it is wrong to harass minorities, except of course when the minority is in fact despicable, and particularly when it resists progressive reeducation. In this case, if the minority does not get the message from "fun-loving" pranksters, other measures will be required.
I love all the ignorance. Donna Brazile just tweeted "Reverse #HobbyLobby. The "Not My Boss’s Business Act" will make it illegal for Employers to deny Women vital health care services." REALLY??? DENYING womens vital health care services??? WOW...Just WOW
Crack:
Most U.S. murders are committed by African-Americans. According to 2012 FBI data. I think that's the most recent summary. Perhaps there's a newer report.
I don't think that the FBI compiles numbers for murder/offender by religion.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_3_murder_offenders_by_age_sex_and_race_2012.xls
Freder F:
There is no "irony" in mocking fat women with tattoos. There is nothing un-Christian about observing that the woman in question seems to devote a good bit of her time stuffing her face. I would expect her self loathing contributes to her sense of the broad (intentional) injustices heaped upon her and hers. Her precious little pranks are as nauseating as they are unfunny and sophomoric.
I would enjoy seeing the fatso apply some of her pranks in the direction of the religion of peace: a group that would lop her fat clit off in a heartbeat.
FF do you have an opinion about this last?
Crack-
The pre-Christian, pagan, world had far more slaves than even antebellum America. That was the reason they never developed industry or science. Why work hard when slaves do everything? Why build machines? Why inquire into the nature of the world when nothing will come of it?
Christianity was a reaction to the collapse of what was, in practice, a godless world. Rome and Greece killed themselves. The Christians picked up the pieces.
You are mistaken. Religious beliefs are weeds, and, though their roots are shallow, their numbers are great, constantly reappearing all over education's garden - and the world - from any dark corner it's never easy to reach, or, sometimes, immediately comprehend.
I'd say that's evidence of something powerful and wonderful. While we are repelled by them, cockroaches will undoubtedly survive nuclear war after the rest of us have been incinerated...and life will continue thanks to our invisible friend.
Your mocking has a forced (even frantic) quality to it that faintly smells of fear and flop sweat. You are fortunate, however. Be not afraid. The Christian's invisible friend does not punish us for our clownish speech and behavior. However, we are judged by how we treat others.
As a consequence, wicked white slave owners and wicked black men shall equally and eternally vie for seats closest to the sulfurous heat.
- Krumhorn
The contraceptive and abortifacients mandates are by HHS. They are not part of the Obamacare Legislation passed by the Peoples' Representatives. Would never have passed an open vote.
Even getting to the open vote was based on a lie and betrayal by Obama when he promised Bart Stupak via Executive Order that he would respect the Hyde Amendment and then broke his word once he had used and played the sucker. Stupak now claims Obama broke his word and the law.
Not to mention the $300 million bribes for Louisiana Purchase, Cornhusker Kickback and Gator Aid.
The frustration with Executive Orders and agency regulations that conflict with actual public opinion explains why Obama credibility and popularity have plunged. Nobody trusts this Administration.
I don't like bullies. Hobby Lobby just opened a store about six miles from my home . They had protestors. I don't buy much in craft stores like that, but I'm headed over there to find something to buy today.
I'm not going to let mindless twits have their way.
This is something a 15 year old does when he thinks he's being clever. I can't believe this is being touted as cool and/or effective.
"Christians have no - I repeat NO - moral high ground, over Arabs, to speak of"
Especially black "Christians" in Chicago. Crack, you are the best comedian I've seen this week, or even month.
I take it that a lot of people have not read this yet.
Althouse seems to thing that choosing pro choice as a slogan by these people. is cloudy and confusing. I disagree.
They are very very clear on what they mean by pro choice.
It means pro my choice on things that I care about. Your choice is unimportant.
"Apparently, it is acceptable to taunt overweight women while claiming to be non-attacking Christians. Apparently without recognizing the irony."
Freder, you are giving Crack a run for his money as comedians go. If she would get her lard ass over here, I would taunt her. So far, I am only commenting on her public actions which were committed to draw attention.
She's rude, tattooed and lewd. Let free speech rule.
Moving books in a bookstore is the most common protest of this sort, like Code Pink's "Move Cheney's Book to the Crime Section of Bookstores!"
Yeah, in one bookstore where I was shopping someone had moved Dreams of My Father to nonfiction.
A friend of mine bought a t-shirt in Dubai that says "#Hashbrowns". There's an accompanying graphic.
1. Hobby Lobby did not resist paying for their employees' birth control. They resisted the "choice" to be willing accessories to the commission of a capital crime. They support contraception, not abortion through chemical or physical assault.
2. Human life evolves from conception to death. Any human action which terminates a human life cycle is murder. Elective abortion is premeditated murder without cause or due process. Murder is only justified when prosecuted in self-defense.
The "choice" in an elective abortion is to terminate a human life cycle, ostensibly for money, sex, and convenience. The "choice" is promoted by politicians, human and civil "rights" activists, and other loose individuals to reduce the problem set (i.e. out-of-sight and out-of-mind or "privacy").
The developing human life is wholly innocent. The mother who chooses to terminate her child's life is guilty of premeditated murder of a wholly innocent human life. The state, advocates, and activists who protect her right to commit murder are accessories to the crime.
The myth of spontaneous conception or "stork's delivery" is something told by parents to their children in order to avoid discussing the biology of human beings. It is self-evidently false, and adults, certainly, should not take comfort in that fairytale nor use it to rationalize an extraordinary and unprecedented human rights violations.
I can't imagine having so little decency that I could say "my boss should be forced to pay for my abortion" without feeling ashamed of myself.
Being able to say it while filled with a sense of righteous anger goes further still. Totally mind-boggling.
Unless your boss knocked you up, don't ask him, or anyone else, for abortion money. It is that simple, really. Have some class.
Freder Frederson said...
Who are these Christians you speak of? Most Christians, hell even a good number of Catholics (and Catholics use birth control at about the same rate as non-Catholics), have no problem with birth control, even the four kinds that the Hobby Lobby owners mistakenly believe are abortifacients.
7/10/14, 11:15 AM
You keep saying that but apparently you don't know what the word "abortifacient" means.
Ann,
You ask a series of good questions. This works for people in a class where they have to try to answer rationally. With the people doing this nonsense, the idea of answering a question about their actions logically is in and of itself an affront to their dignity, in their eyes. I realize for you the debate is what interests you - and me, too. But it does not interest them. The spirit of shutting people up has progressed passed that point in this last year or so. We now have the BBC sending its staff to "seminars and workshops" to learn how to ignore what the august seers there deem "marginal views." The spirit of Pravda is alive and well in the land. I suspect people rearranging items at Hobby Lobby have no idea that what they are doing might actually need to be explained. They don't care.
MayBee:
Not all women. I welcome the women who have a shred of sanity and dignity. Even if they made the "choice" after receiving false counsel, they can still recover their humanity and dignity by teaching others their mistake, or, at minimum, refrain from normalizing (e.g. advocacy, activism, voting) this dysfunctional behavior.
Typical, they're upset that Hobby Lobby employees are not getting more free stuff so they harass the Hobby Lobby employees.
I think you misapprehend them. I have not seen one report mentioning an actual woman working at Hobby Lobby who wants one of the four methods of birth control under discussion and is upset that HL doesn't provide them. It's not about the HL employees. It's about the fact that HL's owners wouldn't submit. That is the offense and that's what they're upset about.
Inconveniencing the employees is a plus, not a minus. They're collaborators, and quite possibly also one of those... Christians. This is designed to get in their faces.
Make life, not abortion.
#libertines #pro-choice #loose
Abortion. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing.
#libertines #pro-choice #loose
Human life evolves from conception to death.
#libertines #pro-choice #loose
Spontaneous conception is a myth and actually a fairytale told to children by their squeamish parents.
#libertines #pro-choice #loose
Abortion == murder == genocide. Equality!
#libertines #pro-choice #loose
Moose: I suspect she drives a Prius as well.
I don't think she could fit into a Prius.
(Freder made me do that.)
I have to say there is almost nothing funnier than this recent outcry against employer ("your boss") having some say in insurance ("your health care") choices.
Anybody who doesn't want their employer to have any input can take care of that by buying their own insurance plan. Problem solved!
Shea and a friend originally visited the Latham, N.Y., store armed with a bag of condoms, determined to distribute them to female employees. When they spotted only one woman on duty, they left the condoms around the store
See how stupid she is? Hobby Lobby already get free condoms, but they don't litter the store with them.
Why are people celebrating the uninformed? Are they too afraid to tell women when they don't know what they are talking about?
This is not exclusively a Christian issue. First, the religion (i.e. morality) and faith are separable. Second, this is an issue for all people who reject reducing human life to a commodity. Third, the prerequisite for liberty is women and men capable of self-moderating, responsible behavior. There is no greater demonstration of irresponsibility than aborting a child's (i.e. wholly innocent) life for money, sex, and convenience.
the US is pretty much the only country on the planet that has never executed Catholics for being Catholic. Why? Because the constitution makes it impossible
It is necessary here to repeat those two qualifications to this statement -- The United States and the Constitution.
But before both, in many places during colonial times, the Catholic faith was outlawed. Even in Maryland, which had been first established by Catholics specifically as a place of religious liberty in 1634, when the Protestants took power, they closed down the Catholic churches and passed penal laws forbidding Catholics from publicly practicing their faith, holding public office and voting. Catholic schools were banned and, as with the persecuted early Church in Rome, Mass had to be celebrated in secret in people’s homes.
Here's the 1704 "Act to Prevent the Growth of Popery" --
whatsoever Popish Bishop Priest or Jesuite shall
baptize any Child or Children other than such who have
Popish Parents or shall say Mass or exercise the ffunction of a
Popish Bishop or Priest within this Province or shall endeavour
to perswade any of her Majestys Leige people of this Province
to embrace and be reconciled to the Church of Rome and
shall be thereof legally Convict shall forfeit the sume of fifty
pounds Sterling for every such Offence the one half thereof to
our Sovereign Lady the Queen her heires and Successors for
the Support of the Government of this Province and the other
half thereof to him or them that will sue for the same to be
recovered in any Court of Record within this Province by bill
Plaint or Information wherein no Essoyn Protection or Wager
of Law to be allowed and shall also Suffer six Months imprison-
ment of his or their body or bodys without bayle or Mainprize.
And be h further Enacted by and with the Advice Consent
and Authority aforesaid that if any Popish Bishop Priest or
Jesuit after such Conviction aforesaid shall say Mass or Exercise
any other part of the Office or ffunction of a Popish Bishop
or Priest within this Province or if any Papist or Person
making profession of the Popish Religion shall keep Schoole
or take upon themselves the Education Government or
Boarding of Youth in any place within this Province such
person or persons being thereof lawfully convicted that then
every such Person shall upon such Conviction be transported
out of this Province to the Kingdom of England together
with his Conviction in order to his Suffering such pains and
penaltys as are provided by the Statute made in the Eleventh
and twelfth year of the reign of his late Majesty King William the third Intituled An Act for the further preventing the Growth
of Popery.
And then, during the 19th century, in these United States, there was the Know Nothing Party and the Klan, both of which engaged in violence against Catholics.
So, it's OK to walk into any store and rearrange merchandise to spell out a message of one's choosing? Letters and words can be made from a large variety of objects, not just wood carved into the shape of a letter. It would be OK for pro life folks to walk into a drugstore and arrange packages of condoms to spell out No IUDs?
Here, the speaker appropriates the store's merchandise (and employee labor) as a medium.
Shouldn't the labor get some voice in their exploitation here?
Why would you do that? Is it that you feel safe picking on Christians?
South Park called the culture out on the double standard better than anything I've ever seen.
And the press did refuse to print the Mohammad cartoons here in the US.
It's not, but they're goofy enough, following Jesus.
I'll bite --- what part of the teachings of Jesus do you disagree with specifically?
Honestly, at this point, I suspect MC here is viciously opposed to reparations. Because few could be a better spokesperson to oppose that asinine movement of pathetic whiners than he.
THAT's why I'd do it and, I think, as a kinda smart black guy,
You're "kinda smart" comment is subjective. Maybe amongst black folks you're mildly clever, but amongst the subset of Americans as a whole, you're barely a step above eating paste.
Apparently, it is acceptable to taunt overweight women while claiming to be non-attacking Christians. Apparently without recognizing the irony.
Nobody is knocking the gravy boat out of her mouth here.
Crack,
Many Arabs are Christian. You need to stop acting like a know-it-all, and learn more. You're limited life experiences are not a substitute for knowledge.
Moving books in a bookstore is the most common protest of this sort, like Code Pink's "Move Cheney's Book to the Crime Section of Bookstores!
I'd always assumed that these were rogue actions, not coordinated efforts. But who knows?
That said, sometimes the bookstores do it themselves. When I discovered that The Florence King Reader was coded as "Women's Studies" by [the late lamented] Borders, I'm afraid my hysterical cackles were noticed by one or two of my co-workers.
I don't want fat, tattooed, slovenly guvmint employees on my political side. Especially one who claims she spends her Saturday mornings defending her beloved Planned Parenthood [aka Abortions R Us] centers.
You know, I suspect that there is a religion among a subgroup of men and women in secular America.
The religion I think I see worships sexual fulfillment and consequence-free sexual intercourse.
It has no formal structure, but does have an informal rite-of-passage for entry. It also has lots of hagiographies of "heroes of the faith". And it is remarkably friendly towards some religions, but not religions which teach a sense of duty or ethics that put limits on sexual activity.
Does anyone else see this?
Or am I the only one who sees it?
Crack MC,
Christians have no - I repeat NO - moral high ground, over Arabs, to speak of.
Some Christians, of course, are Arabs. (The late Edward Said was one.) It's somewhat difficult to gain the moral high ground against oneself.
Anne, what is your opinion on why these "activists" are always so darned unattractive?
Wouldn't this woman's time be better spent encouraging donations to one's local Planned Parenthood?
Naw...too productive and mature.
Freder (11:15): "Who are these Christians you speak of? Most Christians, ...."
Here's Freder using lefty logic to convince himself that the nonsense in his post (about Christians using birth control), if true, is relevant.
Not a clue.
And slavery. Can't forget slavery. Went with the Bible.
Sure - it fell by the Bible, too - but anything that can work both spells doesn't seem necessary, if you ask me.
Crack, please! do you really think that slavery was started by Christians????? If so you are not "kinda smart", you are ignorant beyond belief.
Now what is true is that slavery existed from the beginning of history until the Christians wiped it out, with force and blood and treasure because it conflicted with Christian beliefs.
If you leftist swine ever succeed in eliminating the Christian influence in society you will see the return of such evils that were kept in check for 2000 years by Christians.
Still have no idea why Althouse allows you to stay on here, especially in light of the 25% drop in her site traffic ever since you showed up. You are a toxic person who drags the entire site down to your unhappy level.
@RazorSharpSundries, on the other hand, she looks like she needs to be hit in the face with a cream pie.
I think it's adorable how protective our resident lefties are of their islamist betters.
Funny, exhibitionists/activists are always fat and ugly. Guess that is the only way they can make people look at them.
Crack (12:11): "Christians have no - I repeat NO - moral high ground, over Arabs, to speak of."
Priceless. Crack the moral relativist, who probably doesn't know he's a moral relativist, is holding forth on "moral high ground."
Crack, the atheist, compounds his ignorance of the basic tenets of Christianity, demonstrated on innumerable occasions, by adding illogic to the equation.
H-m-m. Christians and Arabs are comparable kinds? Who knew? How about Wiccans? Do they hold moral high ground over Native Americans? Do Sikhs hold moral high ground over Pacific Islanders? Do apples hold moral high ground over oranges? Or, more accurately, broccoli?
I think those of you who are talking about bosses being required to pay for abortions are letting this issue get away from you a bit. This shouldn't even be about whether you're required to pay for an abortion--I know it matters for purposes of the Court ruling, but in a fundamental sense this is much simpler.
Let's say this was not about contraception but instead about heart medicine. Should a boss be required to pay for your heart medicine?
No, full stop. Neither should your boss be required to buy shoes for your kid, or a car to drive to work in, though of course any boss may agree with you to provide such things as a condition of your employment or just to be nice. Your boss is only required to compensate you what s/he agreed to, in exchange for your work.
I know we get away from that a bit with payroll taxes (requiring bosses to pay you some of your compensation in the form of possible SS payments someday) and minimum wages (preventing bosses and employees from agreeing to a lower wage). But in a fundamental sense, the boss wants to trade money or benefits for labor, and requiring the boss to have to provide certain benefits is absurd.
Basil to Crack: "Still have no idea why Althouse allows you to stay on here, .... You are a toxic person who drags the entire site down to your unhappy level."
I think it has to do with "the soft bigotry of low expectations." He's "kinda smart" you know.
Fat chicks with bad tattoos.
What did you expect?
"Christians have no - I repeat NO - moral high ground, over Arabs, to speak of"
Especially black "Christians" in Chicago. Crack, you are the best comedian I've seen this week, or even month.
Yes, maybe Christians commit a preponderance of the murders in this country. But, they also constitute a similar majority. That said, what Crack did not say, but should have, to be fair, is that a large number of those murders by Christians were committed by Black Christians. Probably close to half. Throw in some good Catholic MS-13 members JIC.
The clash between Christianity and violence by some claiming to be Christian has always been interesting. I am reminded of that scene in the Godfather, where Michael is standing as godfather for his sister's kid, while preparing for retribution, including the murder of that sister's husband. The movie made a big thing of the hypocrisy, switching back and forth between the church, with Michael promising to fight evil, etc., and his people preparing for the upcoming bloodbath.
That woman wasn't raised very well.
Maybe she should come to my house, where we teach that if it doesn't belong to you, you keep your hands to yourself.
My kids don't dare touch merchandise in a store, unless they are preparing to purchase it with their own money.
Does she own those letters and all that stuff? Does she have the right to fart around with it?
No, and no. It's not cute or prankish, Althouse; it's idiotic.
No class and no brains is no way to go through life.
Protests can work. Yesterday, Costco was pulling the Dinesh D'Souza book off their shelves. A lot of their customers protested (including me - I told them I wouldn't renew my membership as long as their book policies were so politically motivated). Today, they backed down. I got a nice email back from them telling me first that they didn't get involved with politics (though their boss sure does, being a well known Obama buddy), and, at the end, that they had reversed their decision, and were going to stock the book. Meanwhile, either because of his new movie, or because of this protest, his book has rocketed up the NYT best seller's list.
I think though that Costco had forgotten who their customers were. A lot of rural America uses them for their big buying trips. When I am in MT, we either stop by the store in Missoula, or Coeur d'Alene, whenever we visit one of those places (which is every couple of weeks). Sam's Club may be cheaper, but Costco arguably has higher quality, and, more important, puts stores in much smaller cities. Many of their progressive fellow travelers don't shop there, because they tend to be more urban, and are more likely to buy in much smaller quantities. The result, I would suggest, is that the company (at least at its headquarters) is a lot more liberal than its customer base.
But before both, in many places during colonial times, the Catholic faith was outlawed.
I think what has to be remembered is that that did not happen that long after the Reformation, and that it had been esp. bloody every time that the English throne switched back and forth between Protestant and Roman Catholic. Maybe because the victors write the history books, but it has always appeared to me that the Catholics were even bloodier than the Protestants here. So, from that point of view, I am not surprised that, at that time in history, Popery was essentially outlawed.
Still, what is interesting to me is how ecumenical we have gotten in my lifetime. Back in the late 1930s and early 1940s, we had people in both my parents' families consider marrying Catholics. That idea was quickly squashed - you could date them, but don't even think about marrying them. I should add that both families were well entrenched here in the U.S. by the time that that order banning Popery was promulgated (my mother's family was apparently closer to the Puritans than my father's though). My parents never did have any real Catholic friends. More recently though, my last 3 serious girlfriends (including my significant other) are all Roman Catholic. It has been almost 20 years since I dated a Protestant. I did tell my kid though that while I supported their choice of a Catholic in their life, I would likely not support a Catholic wedding, where they had to pledge to raise all their kids as Papists (thanks to 4 centuries of Protestantism in my family background).
I can't imagine having so little decency that I could say "my boss should be forced to pay for my abortion" without feeling ashamed of myself
Probably no more embarrassing than asking your boss to pay for boner pills or penis pumps? Or anti-depressive drugs, or virtually hundreds and hundreds of other prescriptions?
Wait, you can get an abortion from prescription? What!
@ Basil
Still have no idea why Althouse allows you to stay on here, especially in light of the 25% drop in her site traffic ever since you showed up. You are a toxic person who drags the entire site down to your unhappy level.
I've asked the same question.
Perhaps Althouse thinks Crack provides the diversity that somehow improves the blog in that mysterious and difficult to articulate way that diversity always improves things. You know, the way adding a lesbian to a bridge engineering project always leads to a better engineered bridge.
Men and women who go along with easy slander and vandalism attacks on Christians for existing on the earth, need have no fear of the Christians.
But they have also picked a fight with the God of the Christians and Jews. And that God has His ways of vengeance that they may not have considered.
Only time will tell, eternally.
Garage makphal wrote:
I think this has to do more with kicking workers in the nuts, once again, and defying the black guy in the White House. HL didn't realize they were providing abortion drugs until 2010? Most of their cheap plastic flowers and crosses are made in China, home of forced abortions.
it seems like the left has a set of talking points given to them which they then regurgitate. I must have heard that Cihina reference around ten times.
From Meghan Mccardle:
Here’s the most interesting thing to me about the long, loud debate over the recent Hobby Lobby decision: Both sides believe that they are having someone else’s views forcibly imposed upon them. . . .
Cards on the table: I think that institutions Hobby Lobby and Little Sisters of the Poor are obviously correct — they are being forced by the government to buy something that they don’t want to buy. We can argue about whether this is a good or a bad idea, but the fact that it is coercive seems indisputable. If it weren’t for state power, the Little Sisters of the Poor would be happily not facilitating the birth-control purchases of its employees; the Barack Obama administration has attempted to force them to do otherwise. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that this coercion violates the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and it must therefore cease.
All this is old ground. The interesting question is why people on the other side view ceasing the coercion as itself coercive while arguing that the original law did not, in fact, force anyone to violate their religious beliefs.
I think a few things are going on here. The first is that while the religious right views religion as a fundamental, and indeed essential, part of the human experience, the secular left views it as something more like a hobby, so for them it’s as if a major administrative rule was struck down because it unduly burdened model-train enthusiasts. That emotional disconnect makes it hard for the two sides to even debate; the emotional tenor quickly spirals into hysteria as one side says “Sacred!” and the other side says, essentially, “Seriously? Model trains?” That shows in Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s dissent, where it seems to me that she takes a very narrow view of what role religious groups play in the lives of believers and society as a whole.
Religious folks are the aggrieved group in this party. Clearly. And the left are a bunch of intolerant bigots.
Hobby Lobby should fuck with these wingnuts (yes, we can have left wingnuts) by saying they are pro-choice.
Huge banners and signs at the entrance to every store along the lines of:
"We are pro-choice. We believe that benefits offered by a company should be the choice of that company."
Then highlight the folks with their piddly little crafty sabotage. Pictures of them caught in the act and captioned "We salute Wendy Wingnut (use her real name) for helping get our pro-choice message out.
John Henry
FromMatthew Sablans's link:
9) Why is it any of my employer's business what birth control I use?
It's not, but once you make them pay for it, you make them a party to the transaction. You can't, on the one hand, mandate that someone pay for something, and on the other argue that it is a matter of supreme indifference to them.
exactly. If you don't think its. Your employers business what birth control you use, don't make them pay for it. So you should be ok buying your own. Pretty simple really. Thanks Meghan.
I directct Freder and Garage to read the article cilinked above by Sablan where Meghan calmly answers the questions about The Hobby Obby case that shows how their side is actually full of crap on this.
Jasmine Shea was quoted by World Socialist Web Site in 2011 when she participated in the Occupy movement.
Jasmine Shea spoke about the frustration of having studied and worked hard only to be left struggling to survive.
“I’m a worker. I’m 26. I went to school. I’m still paying off my student loans. I got a job in radio broadcasting. That’s what my career was. Due to the economy, the station that I was at went under and they changed their format. So I had to find a minimum wage job working at Dunkin Donuts. I finally found a part-time job working as a waitress to try to pay off my medical bills. I’m here because I make so little that if they keep on taxing me more I won’t be able to survive. I think it’s time that the rich and the corporations had to start paying their fair share of taxes. Because if I’m living off ramen noodles and dollar menus what else am I going to live off of if you’re going to take more money from me? It’s hard struggling.”
“I’m here also to fight for people like my aunt who has worked at Key Bank for 15 years and is a top person in her field. Her job just got sent overseas. And she works from home because she has MS [multiple sclerosis]. It just baffles my mind that her job was taken away so easily.”
“It’s sad to see my friends who went to school and had their jobs and are now stuck working minimum wage and are now trying to figure out how they can go back to school to find another job that’s not there. The Republicans keep on saying you can’t tax the job creators. Well they’re not creating anything.”
“I don’t think the people in Washington are thinking about the future. They’re thinking about themselves. We are the future. I am the future. If I have kids, my kids are the future. And I want them to know that they are going to have jobs when they [grow up]. My mom always said ‘go to school, go to college, get a job’. I did, now there aren’t any jobs. So what am I going to do?”
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2011/10/owsa-o24.html
I think it is a great idea for pro-choice people to go to Hobby Lobby stores and tweet about it.
At Hobby Lobby they will find a few Bible verses around that might speak to their life circumstances and comfort them. They might meet some kind, Christian workers--I would guess Sundays off would attract them as employees. At the very least they are getting Hobby Lobby some free publicity.
I live where there are lots of Hobby Lobby stores and I usually drive by without thinking about them. Now I think about how I can support them.
I also think about how to support Mardel, the chain of Christian bookstores. Somehow the Mardel connection is not getting as much publicity.
Definitely a Hate Crime; and should be prosecuted as such.
This is something a 15 year old does when he thinks he's being clever. I can't believe this is being touted as cool and/or effective.
True. When I was about sixteen, some friends and I noticed that a new strip club had a marquee that you didn't need a ladder to access. It said something about "hot ladies." We removed the "ie," stacking those letters neatly at the bottom of the sign, and moved the "s" over. Very juvenile indeed. And I can't be accused of laughing about it now because you can't see my face.
“I’m a worker. I’m 26. I went to school. I’m still paying off my student loans. I got a job in radio broadcasting. That’s what my career was. Due to the economy, the station that I was at went under and they changed their format. So I had to find a minimum wage job working at Dunkin Donuts....I think it’s time that the rich and the corporations had to start paying their fair share of taxes...It’s sad to see my friends who went to school and had their jobs and are now stuck working minimum wage and are now trying to figure out how they can go back to school to find another job that’s not there. The Republicans keep on saying you can’t tax the job creators. Well they’re not creating anything.”
Jasmine is another of our economic illiterates. Taxing the rich removes investment liquidity from the economy. It is investment in risky propositions that creates jobs and wealth.
I'm sure she would be gob-smacked (and that's a LOT of gob) to learn that HL's starting full-time wage is $15/hr plus benefits. That's a lot of money to pay for unskilled indoor labor in retail and greatly exceeds the minimum wage.
-Krumhorn
.....
I agree with everyone who points out the Left's hypocrisy with respect to the safest religion to attack; on the other hand, isn't it highly likely that Jasmine Shea was raised in an at least nominally Christian milieu, and likelier that her parents and their generation were? If this is the case, then I'll bet you that some of us good Christians failed them and/or her in witnessing to our faith and/or passing it along. She makes her own rude and distasteful political choices, of course, but she and her cohort of pro-abortion and anti-religion allies didn't appear out of nothing.
And I noticed, Professor A., your comment about "(t)he religious freedom ideology that developed in this country", [arising] "from a tradition of Christian subgroups-- all Protestant". Not sure what is meant by that. You're referring to the Puritans, the Anabaptists and Quakers and Shakers and others, I guess, but one finds philosophical and legal forebears for 'the American experiment' in the Catholic tradition, too, in Sts Thomas Aquinas and Robert Bellarmine, inter alii; perhaps you were simply making the point that the vast majority of officeholders in the state and federal governments since the founding of the Republic were, until after the Second World War? the early 20th c.? I don't know, were Protestant Christians.
I just noticed that in the top picture, she has exactly the same stupid grin on her face as State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki has in that picture of her in suit and jewelry holding up a piece of paper bearing a hastily-scrawled "#standwithukraine" hashtag.
Not sure what that means. Is the common factor the attempt to pretend that "See! I'm a real, brave activist here!!!"? The disconnect between the message and the underlying reality? (The State Dept. no more stood with Ukraine than this woman is in favor of free choice.) Or just the similarity of expression and thumbs-up pose?
I'm sure that they would think it OK for someone who was pro-life to do something similar at an abortion clinic.
i love the word abortaficient.
tits.
I want you to keep your rosaries off my ovaries, but I demand your wallet in my bed.
I've got a great idea.
Get "your boss" out of the health insurance business.
And get rid of the tax break given to all of the bosses who run health care insurance operations. Bosses can give their employees a raise, instead of a health care plan.
Let insurers sell directly, nationally, competitively, across state lines, and decouple -- once and for all -- employer-based health care. Do it for the good of the economy, for freedom and liberty, and for good sense.
Protestants don't use Rosaries.
I saw this post earlier. While I was out and about I decided to stop at Hobby Lobby and picked up a birthday present for my daughter.
Preventing Ms. Shea from getting as many abortions as she chooses would be a crime against humanity.
Soon it will be illegal for stores sell wall plaques that mention Jesus or the Bible. The rationale will be that such signs make some non-Christian (or more likely anti-Christian) shoppers "incomfortable." The media will think this is a great idea. You can't have stores forcing their beliefs on random shoppers.
Freeman Hunt: "And I can't be accused of laughing about it now because you can't see my face."
True, true. On the Internet no one knows you're a dog.
Hmm. The picture really muddies the waters. Why would a lesbian need birth control? She doesn't - she just has to GroupHate.
Garage:
Rev was saying, if his employer did not provide a type of benefit i.e. abortion or ED pills, Rev would be embarrassed to ask his boss to pay for that benefit. You on the other hand are arguing you would just storm right in to your boss and demand he provide the ED pills to help you with your limp dick?
Earlier Althouse told us that Rush et. al. don't want gals getting birth control from their employers because giving it to them is too supportive of dudes who do them.
By this logic it could only be sex crazed men, motivated by lust, who oppose African, Middle East, and Asian societies that allow meddling with gals' sexuality. I disagree, imho men who make sex hard or dangerous for women are loons. Men who are opposed to these loons are not sex crazed, they're anti-loon.
But, now, we learn that employers should be able to meddle with gal employees' birth control coverage because 1) the employers are minorities since they're Christians (not to mention members of other paternalistic religions) who hate gals using birth control, and 2) if you don't like this paternalistic treatment of employees you don't need to shop at these daddy-knows-best stores.
Doesn't this argument completely ignore the employee's situation. Are they supposed to quit working?
BTW, I've heard that the gals can use their own money to buy birth control. But, that money also comes from whatever junk selling (i.e. HobLob) subsidiary of Christ Co employs them? Benefits and dough are both compensation. Gals are grownups. It's their paternalistic bosses need to be restrained. Apparently they don't know where their business ends and their personnel's personal beeswax begins.
Nobody is forcing gals to take birth control. It's a choice.
The Hobby Lobby Christian's belief stem from scripture that reveals paid assassins to be the most vile and accursed sinners, and paying the bill makes one into an accomplice to paid assassins.
They are braver than the average folks to stand up and say that truth to our culture.
The usual path is to murder to steal from the dead and then to lie to cover it up.
"The result, I would suggest, is that the company (at least at its headquarters) is a lot more liberal than its customer base."
How is it that this pot smoking, $15/hr min wage, give-you-a-fine-for-not-recycling (though, so far I've only received a warning in my trash) lib oasis can foster the growth of capitalism?
Costco
Nordsrom
REI
Amazon
Microsoft
Boeing
Starbucks
and whatever I'm forgetting
Matthew Sablan:
The McArdle article is excellent journalism. It is rare to read a report without implicit or explicit bias.
I am especially fond of her conclusion.
12) What if my employer says it has a sincere religious belief in human sacrifice -- can he kill me? Yes. If ...
Sometimes the tree of logic must be watered with nonsense to expose the fraudulent premise.
Anyway, I am impressed with McArdle. However, I am concerned that it is necessary to explain the difference between natural and artificial termination of human evolution, between premeditated and accidental causes of death. While point 12 is absurd on its face, in practice it may actually be a negotiable doctrine. Perhaps not by your employer, but certainly by your government.
"I can't imagine having so little decency that I could say "my boss should be forced to pay for my abortion" without feeling ashamed of myself"
Probably no more embarrassing than asking your boss to pay for boner pills or penis pumps?
Um... my boss *doesn't* pay for "boner pills or penis pumps". And I'm sure that if I tried demanding them, and tried to get the world to agree with me that this was part of a War On Men, the result would perhaps not be very supportive of me.
Nor should it!
Or anti-depressive drugs, or virtually hundreds and hundreds of other prescriptions?
There are lots of drugs that aren't covered by insurance. I'm not sure what your point is. But the list of drugs I think other people should be forced to buy for me is pretty short. I've attached it to the end of this comment.
"I think it’s time that the rich and the corporations had to start paying their fair share of taxes"
The US government spends $3.77 trillion. The adult population of the US is 242.5 million.
Your fair share of federal taxes is $15,500.
If you pay more than that -- congrats! You're paying your fair share of taxes, if not more.
If you pay less, I don't want to hear the words "fair share of taxes" leave your mouth unless preceded by the words "I would like to apologize for not paying my".
12) What if my employer says it has a sincere religious belief in human sacrifice -- can he kill me? Yes. If ...
Actually, this is not such an absurd question; but, there isn't a logical progression from committing elective abortion before birth and committing elective abortion after birth. This is for two reasons. One, after birth you have a right and ability to engage in self-defense. This natural principle is, unfortunately, ineffective before birth and some time thereafter. Two, there are competing interests who are unlikely to stand by and tolerate the abortion of family, friends, colleagues, allies, etc. Most people are sufficiently sane to refrain from casual murder. The threat from others is mitigated through empowered competing interests.
Sure, religious communities and especially secular governments have committed abortion on grand scales, but they have rarely escaped accountability, eventually. So, there is no general grant of rights to commit abortion after birth. Not for religious or secular causes. RFRA does not change that calculus.
PBandJ_LeDouanier foolishly wrote:
"Earlier Althouse told us that Rush et. al. don't want gals getting birth control from their employers because giving it to them is too supportive of dudes who do them.
By this logic . . ."
Whose logic? The logic of Althouse, Limbaugh, or 'et al'?
My standard comment to those ...... Is " It's too bad your mother didn't practice what you preach."
If the in-store prankery doesn't generate enough buzz our little lefty misfits can always leave a flaming poo-bag on the receiving dock.
For those demanding that your job pay for birth control, why doesn't your job pay for glasses/contacts?
My job doesn't even offer vision insurance. But when I buy it, I"m still required to cough up some cash to get lenses.
What's more important? Being able to see, or birth control? Sex is an optional endeavor, vision is a 24 hour requirement.
So, why shouldn't my vision come before women's birth control in terms of priority?
And yet, I'm perfectly willing to pay for my glasses/contacts. So, I have little to no sympathy for those clamoring for free birth control.
The "pro-choice" verbiage of the protest is revealing. The protest is about abortion, not birth control, just as Hobby Lobby's objection was. In a sense, a point has been conceded. Hasn't it?
Also, I suggest that Hobby Lobby employees be not harried about rearrangements of letters and the such, and, more, that they do not expend energy in rearranging those (corollary: nor should their managers expect them to). I suggest that either the rearrangements be ignored--first choice--or that rosaries (preferably crafted from the beads&etc. available in the store) simply be draped over the rearrangements without further comment--second choice.
For goodness' sake, sometimes the "oh-puhleeze" stance is best.
Additional things you can do at #hobbylobby : #checkyourself
When I discovered that The Florence King Reader was coded as "Women's Studies" by [the late lamented] Borders, I'm afraid my hysterical cackles were noticed by one or two of my co-workers.
Michelle, I had that experience, too (though not as a co-worker). How PERFECT, I thought. And, moreover, I thought that Florence King would've thought it perfect, too.
Because, God knows, that woman knew something about studying, and in addition writing studies of all sorts of things and all sorts of people, including women.
I didn't, and don't, think that categorization was far-fetched or mismatched.
I did, and do, think it was bloody marvelous and purely wonderful, however unintentional, that such an apt categorization took place.
I still smile at the memory now (even years after that bookstore chain's demise and despite my missing Borders), and I am grateful for that--however brief--categorization.
Here's another tag.
#Assholes
Basil:
"If you leftist swine ever succeed in eliminating the Christian influence in society you will see the return of such evils that were kept in check for 2000 years by Christians."
I believe this is already happening, examples;
- Boko Haram, and the spread of similar movements in Kenia and central Africa
- Al Qaida/ISIS in Syria and Iraq
- UK Grooming Gangs (actively covered up by the last Labour government)
- ...
I'll #keepmyrosaryoffyourovary if you #keepyourvaginaoutofmychecbook, mmmkay?
PB, insurance is a benefit they provide you. It is exceptionally asinine to whine about the benefit given to you.
Pay for your own fucking contraceptives or we should offer sterilization as a free option.
I'll get my rosary off your ovaries when you get your c--t out of my wallet.
I'll say three Hail Marys for all on this thread.
The protesters' use of the term "pro-choice" to object to Hobby Lobby's choice reminds me of this brilliant bit by Cassandra Wilkinson of the Australian:
"FREEDOM is a bit like one of those pesky irregular verbs. I deserve liberty; you deserve a balance of rights and responsibilities; that bloke ought to be locked up. I am a rational autonomous adult; you are subject to external influence; that bloke doesn’t know what’s good for him."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/be-careful-what-you-wish-for-bans-and-censorship-tend-to-bite-the-hand-that-voted-for-them/story-fnhuliiz-1226946281808?nk=6c41e285f531867af729ebbc9a8b5f23#
Abby Hoffman told me to steal his book and I did. Served 5 to 10 at Ben Franklins. And Sean is right, not free speech; closer to vandalism.
I fyou think the concept of private property is subordinate to the concept of government redistribution of wealth, vandalizing a store's property is simply helping government move things along to where they should be. Sort of NGO theater of the absurd, if you will.
I believe this is already happening, examples;
- Boko Haram, and the spread of similar movements in Kenia and central Africa
- Al Qaida/ISIS in Syria and Iraq
"You need Christianity to protect you from Islam" is an off-putting argument, especially considering that if it wasn't for Christianity there wouldn't be Islam in the first place.
If there wasn't Atheism there wouldn't be Marxism (and its derivatives) in the first place.
Surely we can engage in more meaningful analysis to determine the value and effects of a philosophy or principle (e.g. rejection of theism).
Islam happens to be a competitor to Christianity. It embraced the principles which it saw fit to serve its own end. Atheism engenders similar competition, imperialistic regimes, regimes which commit unprecedented violations of human rights, including the right to life.
The atheist/theist rift is unproductive on its own merits. While Atheism is not a whole philosophy, its single principle does encourage a critical perspective, which may promote individual and species fitness or encourage the worst excesses of human egos.
Yawn
Childish shenanigans of our less bright progressive citizens.
In regards to something posted by Althouse earlier regarding giving people free birth control there's this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/10/upshot/does-contraceptive-coverage-pay-for-itself.html?ref=health&_r=0
Does birth control pay for itself? Maybe not.
-----Oh - I almost forgot:
And slavery. Can't forget slavery. Went with the Bible.
------
We knew you wouldn't forget. Your Racist OCD wouldn't let you.
BTW have you ever condemned slavery as currently practiced by Muslims. - Don't they'll kill you.
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