January 27, 2014

"President Clinton did a bad, bad thing, Monica Lewinsky was not precisely an innocent victim completely..."

"... I recall thong flashing there," says WaPo's Ruth Marcus, noting the tendency of Republicans like Mike Huckabee and Rand Paul to portray women, "when it comes to sex and sexual activity," as "either innocent victims or... sexually promiscuous, slutty, low-life women." It should be that "women get to use sex and sexual activity and with that use contraception responsibly just like men do."

This is similar to what I said yesterday:
If young women are "conquering the world" (as Paul said), why not credit Monica Lewinsky with her conquest of the world's most powerful man? She was enthusiastic and willing, from what I read.
I had a problem with Rand Paul's talking about Lewinsky as a "young girl" who was taken "advantage" of. He acknowledged the importance of rules against sexual harassment, but for what I thought was the wrong reason:
I think the sexual harassment problem in the case of Bill Clinton has to do with other women who were pressured to have sex and with the women and men who were not in a position to improve their standing in the workplace by interacting sexually with the boss.
Lewinsky was young and seems really to have fallen in love with Bill Clinton, who blithely used her for his selfish amusement, but she was an adult and she made choices. As Ruth Marcus said, "women get to use sex... just like men." That's freedom. That's personal autonomy. And a lot of use goes on.

It's nice to hear Marcus plainly say that Clinton's use of Lewinsky was "a bad, bad thing," and I think some people really will feel that it's got something to do with whether he gets to reside in the White House again, even if it's counting the misdeeds of the man against the wife. When the wife is asking for the distinction of First Woman President, there's some sense in thinking about all of the relevant women issues.

I'd like to see Hillary run on the argument that she's the best. Don't do anything at all to get us hyped up about achieving another "first." Just be the best. It makes more sense, and it might be the easiest path.

107 comments:

Seeing Red said...

She's not the best.

cubanbob said...

I'd like to see Hillary run on the argument that she's the best and not do anything at all to get us hyped up about achieving another "first." Just be the best. It makes more sense, and it might be the easiest path."

The best what? Fool? Liar? Opportunist? Yes indeed the vast right wing conspiracy is all she has other than being the mother of ObamaCare.

chuck said...

the argument that she's the best

Well, it worked for Obama. But he hasn't been the best in reality, maybe third rate if one is generous. I don't think there is any reason to suppose that Hillary would be any better.

MaxedOutMama said...

Where's the fairness in blaming a woman for the misdeeds of her husband?

Okay, she didn't divorce him for his sexually predatory horndog behavior, but it seems to me that this shouldn't come into play in her presidential bid.

There are plenty of things she did personally that should.

SteveR said...

Well its my impression that any male with some authority over a woman in a business/educational role and who engaged in sexual activity with that woman, would and should be considered to have committed some type of crime. But when it comes to misunderstanding republicans there are all sorts of convenient technicalities, even with the obligatory, "it was still a bad thing". Right Ruth I understand.

Fen said...

If young women are "conquering the world" (as Paul said), why not credit Monica Lewinsky with her conquest of the world's most powerful man?

Because she didn't. Monica was looking to become the next Mrs Clinton. Instead, Bill exploited their boss/intern relationship and took advantage of their differing ages/experience to turn her into his Cigar Slut.

Not quite the sentiment behind "you've come a long way baby!"

We're going to see more of these attempts to whitewash what Bill did and (by extension) what Hillary enabled to get to this point in her life.

Try not to be a Useful Idiot this time around, ie. the way you were snookered into signing onto the "not an impeachable offense" doc by 100 constitutional scholars. You remember, they changed the summary after you signed.

SteveR said...

Hillary's not the best. Period But I repeat myself

cassandra lite said...

The best what? She can really only run on entitlement, having actually earned nothing--literally nothing--during her previous years in the public eye. There hasn't been a single accomplishment that furthered the public good, only Hillary's good.

Fen said...

Just play the "3am phonecall" speech with the inflamed Bengazi compound in the background.

Bob Boyd said...

I agree that Lewinsky was an adult and made choices, but...
She was a very young adult. Young people lack perspective and judgement born of experience. They often lack the ability to weigh potential consequences and to grasp that bad things can happen to them.
Its not a function of gender. If anything, young men are worse.
Its wrong to take advantage of somebody and expose them to serious, harmful, life path altering consequences for no good reason even if they express willingness to be taken advantage of. Is it not?

John Scott said...

Should we credit Jaunita Broaddrick too?

damikesc said...

So, why was Bob Packwood such a bad guy? He did far less than Clinton.

jono39 said...

Lewinsky is what he will be remembered for!! What else do we have to say about his terms. A capable man, terrible president which distinguishes him from his two successors who are not even capable, Obama does seen to be a good parent.

n.n said...

Hillary leads from behind. While Obama is MIA watching a video.

"Thong flashing", huh? This deserves a slut walk.

As for "conquering the world", people's idea of "progress" is stale. Women have been manipulating men with sexual favors since forever. The only thing "progressive" about Lewinsky's success is that sexual exploitation has enjoyed a revival in the mainstream, out of the closet.

Oh, well. I suppose, progressive morality has its winners and losers. It's funny how progress has exhibited a decidedly retrograde character.

garage mahal said...

I've noticed conservatives really, really love talking about Bill Clinton's cock. I wish he would just show it so we can kinda sorta move on? Haha, just kidding.

damikesc said...

And is this EXCUSING Clinton's behavior?

Fen said...

She can really only run on entitlement, having actually earned nothing--literally nothing--during her previous years in the public eye

Exactly. And how many women had to have their lives ruined so she could arrive at this point? We only know about the ones who couldn't be silenced.

cubanbob said...

Where's the fairness in blaming a woman for the misdeeds of her husband?

Okay, she didn't divorce him for his sexually predatory horndog behavior, but it seems to me that this shouldn't come into play in her presidential bid.

There are plenty of things she did personally that should."

Yeah except she did her Tammy Wynette shtick in 92 knowing all along what Bill was doing then blaming everyone else. She is a rank ( in every sense of the word) opportunist. She may be the best the Democrats can offer but then again that and $4.00 will get you a Starbucks coffee.

rehajm said...

When the wife is asking for the distinction of First Woman President, there's some sense in thinking about all of the relevant women issues.

Will we only be allowed to think about Bill, Hillary and Monica or will we be allowed to think about all of the relevant women?

cubanbob said...

Where's the fairness in blaming a woman for the misdeeds of her husband?

Okay, she didn't divorce him for his sexually predatory horndog behavior, but it seems to me that this shouldn't come into play in her presidential bid.

There are plenty of things she did personally that should."

Yeah except she did her Tammy Wynette shtick in 92 knowing all along what Bill was doing then blaming everyone else. She is a rank ( in every sense of the word) opportunist. She may be the best the Democrats can offer but then again that and $4.00 will get you a Starbucks coffee.

Seeing Red said...

Juanita wasn't rape-rape.

Just open the files and settle this once and for all.

Hagar said...

I do not understand about women and Bill Clinton. Even Barbara Bush (the senior one) is making excuses for him.

Re: Monica. Just swap the D after his name with an R, and picture the headlines.
Plus disgracing the Oval Office.

Fen said...

Garage thinks sexual discrimination, harassment, and assault is a joke when his Poster Boy does it.

This is who he is.

Lindsay Marshall said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
cubanbob said...

I've noticed conservatives really, really love talking about Bill Clinton's cock. I wish he would just show it so we can kinda sorta move on? Haha, just kidding.

1/27/14, 5:06 PM


Pretty funny from a guy that appears to be sucking it.

rehajm said...

...and speaking of relevant women, will we be allowed to talk about Chelsea, or is she still off limits as a child of the president?

Ann Althouse said...

"She's not the best."

She is if there's no one better.

Fen said...

Where's the fairness in blaming a woman for the misdeeds of her husband?

She enabled those abuses to rise to power. Thats why its fair to blame her.

dbp said...

Back when Bill was running for president wasn't there a meme they tried to generate indicating we were getting "two for one" in Hillary + Bill?

Does that not apply now?

garage mahal said...

Garage thinks sexual discrimination, harassment, and assault is a joke when his Poster Boy does it.

Getting a consensual blow job is assault?

Seeing Red said...

We have liberal friends hard to believe I know and talked about them after he left the presidency. They declared she would divorce him. I told them she wouldn't cos there's no cachet in being the ex of an ex-president and she likes the perks too much.

IF she had divorced him, shown some modicum of self-respect, I wouldn't be as harsh on her as I can be. But here we have another purported feminist riding on her husband's coat tails. Abortion Barbie learned well.

We will never know how far the smartest woman in the world would have gone if she had actually stood on her own two feet.

Fen said...

Grabbing Kathleen Wiley's breasts during a job interview is sexual assault.

Try it at your workplace. See what it gets you.

Seeing Red said...

Hil was our 1st co-president.

Michael K said...

If Hillary runs as "The Best", maybe we will get a chance to revisit the firing of Hillary from the Watergate Committee by the Democrat chief counsel for lying and dishonesty. The links goes to Snopes so garage can see what the left thinks of her.

Seeing Red said...

Doesn't matter if someone better is running.

Ron said...

Are they channeling this song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPZQ7ZLy3MI

Is Clinton Kubrickian? (from Eyes Wide Shut)

Seeing Red said...

2012 election proved that. It's about feelings now. Who you know, not what you know.

Michael K said...

I should say what they thought of her before it was obvious she would run again.

The now-retired general counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee, who supervised Hillary when she worked on the Watergate investigation, says Hillary’s history of lies and unethical behavior goes back farther – and goes much deeper – than anyone realizes.

Roughcoat said...


What would make her the best?

jacksonjay said...

Overheard at UW:

Sissy: Hey Mom, Guess What? I just conquered Professor Badger!

Mom: Shame on you! How could you? How could he? Is he in trouble?

Sissy: No Mom, UW believes that I am a Woman and I can use sex to conquer men!

Mom: Who's next on the list?

mesquito said...

Yeah. Enough about Monica.

Let's talk about the women he raped.

cubanbob said...

Garage thinks sexual discrimination, harassment, and assault is a joke when his Poster Boy does it.

Getting a consensual blow job is assault?"

In a boss-employee situation it is. And don't forget perjury.

amielalune said...

She's not remotely the best at anything that really matters.

Martha said...

Agree with Fen. Hillary was an enabler. She knew about Bill's sexual indiscretions before she married him but Bill could count on Hillary's unflagging support -- bimbo eruption after bimbo eruption.

Remember Hillary's claim about a right wing conspiracy?
That was Hillary trying to cover up another bimbo eruption--- the Monica intern sexual harassment affair.

Women married to men who are habitual sexual harrassers either divorce them in disgust or cover up for them thereby becoming complicit.

Dr Weevil said...

I don't recall who said this first (not I) but the reason Hillary will never divorce Bill is simple: no matter how little time they spend together, as long as they are still married neither can be forced to testify against the other.

LarryK said...

I don't disagree with any of this, but what I really object to is that, 15 years after the fact, all anyone seems to remember or at least talk about) re Clinton and Lewinsky are the salacious details. People seem to have forgotten the most relevant and scandalous parts of the story, which are:

1. Bill Clinton used his power as President to tamper with the judicial process and try to fix a court case;
2. Monica Lewinsky tried to help him i.e encouraging Linda Tripp to lie under oath - the request that led to the taping and the whole thing to be revealed;
3. Clinton was ultimately impeached because he committed felonies in office (perjury, obstruction of justice); and
4. Hillary was his PR, go-to gal; she deliberately lied for him and outrageously shifted attention away from him to a fabricated 'right wing conspiracy,' at a critical time in the scandal. Without Hillary's willing and critical role as Bill's defender and smear agent, Clinton's goose would have been cooked.

Those are the reasons the Clintons should never be allowed back in the White House.

Seeing Red said...

It's the Polanski syndrome.

Seeing Red said...

Open up the records.

Illuninati said...

Ann Althouse said...
""She's not the best."

She is if there's no one better."

What a depressing thought. If she is the best politician around we are really in deep trouble.

PB Reader said...

Bill abused his position of authority. Repeatedly. Bill misused government staff and property for his personal sexual predation.

Bill (and Hillary) misused their position of authority to coerce senior female members of his administration and supporters to stand up and defend him saying he wouldn't do such a thing.

garage mahal said...

"Grabbing Kathleen Wiley's breasts during a job interview is sexual assault."

This Kathleen Willey?

According to Tripp’s detailed, sworn testimony, Willey pursued a romance with Clinton right from the start of her White House employment. Willey had speculated with Tripp as to how she might be able to set up an assignation between herself and the president. She routinely attended events at which Clinton would be present, wearing a black dress she believed he liked. According to Tripp’s testimony, she wondered if she and Clinton could arrange to meet in a home to which she had access along the Chesapeake Bay.

Tripp also challenged Willey’s account of that Oval Office meeting. According to Tripp, Willey had arranged the meeting in part to see if her flirtation with Clinton might advance. And when Clinton and Willey did meet in the Oval, Willey rushed back to Tripp’s office to describe it. According to Tripp, Willey “smiled from ear to ear the entire time” as she described the event. “She seemed almost shocked, but happy shocked,” Tripp told the grand jury. Willey told Tripp that she and Clinton had smooched—but there was no talk of a sexual assault. In short, Tripp’s testimony threw into question the story Willey told in March—the story foolish pundits had sworn by. Clinton, of course, has denied that anything inappropriate happened during that meeting.


And wasn't there an investigation?

Why is this state of affairs so amazing? Unfortunately, it soon became clear that there was good reason not to believe Willey’s story. Indeed, Independent Counsel Robert Ray would eventually give up on Willey. In his formal report on the Clinton investigations, Ray said that Willey had lied to the FBI; he even suggested that he had considered prosecuting her for her conduct. Link.

Tom said...

Clinton did a thing in the Oval Office that had he done it in the private sector of a Fortune 500 company, he would have been instantly fired. So did Lewenski.

FullMoon said...

The Clintons and their gang trashed Monica Lewinsky as a low down lying slut. Reading the Starr report, Bill may actually have had feelings for her until he came to his senses.Then,the whole thing blew up before he could let her down easily. She lied to protect him until they trashed her so bad that she went to the back of her closet a got the blue dress.
Ithink all of Bills circle believed him at first.
The thing is, if Hillary had sucked his dick 3 or 4 times a week, this probably never would have happened.

Hagar said...

And that's not "love," Professor; just hormones, even in Barbara Bush.

Seeing Red said...

Head slap we're selling 24 Apache helos to Iraq? Are they that desperate for cash?

jacksonjay said...

What I most admire about Hillary is how strong and independent she is! She has been a great role model for women worldwide! She is the very definition of "feminist"!

Gahrie said...

Before President Clinton, feminists told us that any sexual contact between a boss and a worker, especially in the workplace, regardless of whether the contact was welcome, was defacto sexual harassment; and that women never lied about rape.

Suddenly all that changed.

David said...

"I had a problem with Rand Paul's talking about Lewinsky as a "young girl" who was taken "advantage" of. He acknowledged the importance of rules against sexual harassment, but for what I thought was the wrong reason."

Had it been my 22 year old daughter, I would have told her she was foolish to get into the situation.

I also would have popped Bill Clinton in the nose with my best shot if I could get near to him.

Bill Clinton was preparing to smear Monica as a delusional, crazy sluttish little tramp, until he learned that she had some (ah) evidence.

What did it matter whether Monica was "innocent." She was a young girl, emotionally at least, and Clinton took advantage. Then he treated her like dirt. I see little difference between that an uninvited groping, no matter what the "law" says is assault.

David said...

"The thing is, if Hillary had sucked his dick 3 or 4 times a week, this probably never would have happened."

Highly doubtful. It's about power. Blow jobs are just the means of demonstration. And it's about being bad. There's nothing bad about sex with your wife. Too tame for guys like Bill.

Fandor said...

Hilliary IS the BEST, as far as self promotion goes, lying, political spin, using F.B.I. files (my speculation) for political blackmail, taking undeserved credit on just about anything. She is a hell of a debater and is full of so much B.S. that she can convince the average sheephal that she is God's gift and the last best hope for America. A truly dangerious person. Beware!

Seeing Red said...

For the younger set it became its a private issue. Please respect their privacy. She was of legal age.

Which is bull.


The same argument can be made between an 18 y.o. High schooler and a teacher. The difference is teacher contracts have ethics clauses.

Slippery slope and here we are.

Meade said...

LarryK said...
"1. Bill Clinton used his power as President to tamper with the judicial process and try to fix a court case;"

Good point, worth repeating.

garage mahal said...
"Getting a consensual blow job is assault?"

Can be. Andrea Dworkin was one of the few feminists (along with Professor Ann Althouse) who took a strong principled stand against Bill Clinton's abuse of power and his serial sexual harassment of subordinates. Dworkin coined the term "war on women" in her book, Life and Death: Unapologetic Writings on the Continuing War on Women.

More and more people who believe in the principle of equality under the law have come to understand the truth of the way partisan Democrats like garage mahal continue their intellectual dishonesty by brushing off President Clinton's serial harassments as "just a consensual blow job".

Shameful.

jacksonjay said...

"The thing is, if Hillary had sucked his dick 3 or 4 times a week, this probably never would have happened."

Dios Mio!

I hope I can get that image out of my head! Why would you do that?

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...


If you can't criticize a liberal woman without being called mysognist, then we should not elect liberal women, because all elected persons need to be subject to criticism.

If you can't criticize a liberal Black without being called racist, then we should not elect liberal Blacks, because all elected persons need to be subject to criticism.

MadisonMan said...

What a depressing thought. If she is the best politician around we are really in deep trouble.

Total agreement.

The Democrats have a problem if she is the best they can find.

Meade said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Seeing Red said...

"Suddenly all that changed...."

And I think 1 female reporter/talking head said something about knee pads and her thanking him for keeping abortion laws.

For the Left, it always has a sexual component.

Meade said...

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
"...without being called mysognist [...]without being called racist...]

Ideally, yes. But racism and misogyny - which have been used to oppress American blacks and women for generations - oppression counter to the fundamental truths we hold to be self-evident - still need to be called out when revealed. Do you disagree?

Roughcoat said...

I was grew up in the 1950s in a very traditional/old-fashioned Midwestern family. My values were instilled by German and Irish grandparents who were born in the 1880s. So basically I was raised with their late 1800s values. Immigrant families, pure German on my father's side with German spoken in my grandpa's house at Christmas and pure Irish on my mother's side with a grandmother who spoke of the perfidy of the English. Yeomen stock. The boys were brought up to be rectitudinous, honorable, upright. Don't be boastful, watch your language. Be brave, be man, and be quiet about it. Go to church or mass on Sunday and eat your greens because they're good for you. Work hard and do your best at every job. Respect women. Etc., etc. We were kind of a dull taciturn family but also a loving and supportive one. We would never EVER have had the Clintons as friends.

mccullough said...

Rand Paul's comments are a shot across the Clinton bow. Sounds like the Republicans will come to play against the War on Women if Hillary is the nominee. Bill has Paula Jones brought to him with his cock out and gropes Kathleen Wiley. Lewinsky is just the icing. Hillary Clinton was a doormat to Bill. She has no self respect.

ThomasD said...

Let us not forget what the left was preparing to inflict upon Lewinsky, right up until she produced POTUS' semen sample.

Wise beyond her years or creepily obsessed?

Without that dress she'd have been Paula Jonesed into oblivion.

With Hilary's assistance and approval.

garage mahal said...

The Democrats have a problem if she is the best they can find.

Who is going to beat her on the Republican side?

garage mahal said...

ore and more people who believe in the principle of equality under the law have come to understand the truth of the way partisan Democrats like garage mahal continue their intellectual dishonesty by brushing off President Clinton's serial harassments as "just a consensual blow job".

So I'm supposed to believe a woman that lied to the FBI and was contradicted under oath by a friend she knew? I'm more inclined to believe the Independent Counsel than your Clinton hating fantasies. Which, again, is weird.

cubanbob said...

garage mahal said...
The Democrats have a problem if she is the best they can find.

Who is going to beat her on the Republican side?

1/27/14, 6:36 PM"

Just for shits and giggles: Scott Walker. If nothing else he is way more qualified than Hillary. And way more than Obama in his fifth year as prez.

garage mahal said...

Scott Walker is going to beat Hillary? Wow, you're further out to lunch than I thought. Walker can't even beat Rick Santorum for 5th place in primary polls.

dwick said...

It should be that "women get to use sex and sexual activity and with that use and pay for their contraception responsibly just like men do."

There - fixed it for you, Ruth...

Meade said...

America's Politico is right: Hillary will be the next POTUS, like it or not. Republicans and conservatives need to focus on regaining and keeping majorities in both houses of Congress.

Scott Walker's job is Governor of the State of Wisconsin. I predict he will serve at least 3 terms.

Barack Obama will eventually become a popular and beloved former President. Like both Bushes.

garage mahal needs to end his partisan war on women. Show women respect.

Cliff said...

Hillary is not the best. But she will be president if conservatives insist on making such repugnant and sexist comments about her. Rand Paul lost the women vote with these comments, even as conservatives find themselves more endeared to him for his sexist attack.

Bob Boyd said...

Ann Althouse said...
"She's not the best."

"She is if there's no one better."


Better than nothing is a high standard.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
"...without being called mysognist [...]without being called racist...]

Ideally, yes. But racism and misogyny - which have been used to oppress American blacks and women for generations - oppression counter to the fundamental truths we hold to be self-evident - still need to be called out when revealed. Do you disagree?


Yes I do disagree, using the standard meaning of the words 'when revealed' (which was a sneaky thing for you to add in there, by the way, essentially begging the question). If racism or misogyny has been 'revealed', then it needs no further calling out.

And how would that 'revealed' have manifested? By the person outright saying they dislike Blacks or women, per say? What if the criticism, as I said in my original comment, is only ever for LIBERAL Blacks and women, as in "I despise Obama and Hillary, but would vote for Cain or Palin in a heartbeat? By definition, that cannot be racism or sexism.

Your question thus assumes too much, namely, that actual racism, or actual sexism can be detected with the certainty that should be required to level such a charge.

Again, blatant sexism or racism would be obvious, and so not need to be further called out.

But how do you tell if regular criticism of a woman or Black is based solely or mainly on gender or race?

If you claim you can do so with any regularity, then with just as much of an unfounded assertion, I would say you lie, since you cannot know what is in another's mind or heart.

So what I am objecting to is what liberals do instead. Basically, it's the famous suggestion in Aliens 2. Let's just nuke the place from space. Only way to be sure.

It is THAT to which I object, because it is dangerous to the Republic, and is designed to silence the opposition.

Seeing Red said...

I'm female my remarks about Hildebeast can't be sexist.

Michael K said...

"Scott Walker is going to beat Hillary? Wow, you're further out to lunch than I thought. Walker can't even beat Rick Santorum for 5th place in primary polls."

It's early. Santorum is the left wingers' fantasy weapon against Republicans. He's not going anywhere. I still think Romney may run again.

Michael K said...

"This Kathleen Willey?

According to Tripp’s detailed, sworn testimony, Willey pursued a romance with Clinton right from the start of her White House employment. "

garage, do you know what a "fluffer" is in the porn industry ?

Lydia said...

America's Politico is right: Hillary will be the next POTUS, like it or not. Republicans and conservatives need to focus on regaining and keeping majorities in both houses of Congress.

It sure does look that way at this point, especially since Christie is now probably out of the running. But I wonder what would happen in a Hillary–Susana Martinez match-up. Our female candidate versus your female candidate, and we'll raise you one Latina -- might just do the trick.

Fen said...

Garage: According to Tripp’s detailed, sworn testimony, Willey pursued a romance with Clinton right from the start of her White House employment

That must be it Garage, her skirt was too short, she had it coming.

[This is who he is]

Tom said...

Well, the War on Women is a cheap shot. So Rand Paul nicely returned the cheap shot. Much better than saying "binders full of women."

Cliff said...

Lydia, your insinuation is insulting. People will not vote for Hillary because she is a woman. If they vote for her it will be becuse they (rightly or wrongly) believe her to be the beat candidate. The insinuation that putting a woman up against her will somehow cut into her woman support is both terribly sexist and incorrect. Susan Martinez would be a good candidate because she has been a good governor, it has nothing to do with her gender or race. Your insinuation is insulting to both Hillary and Susan.

Fen said...

Great parody Cliff.

Fen said...

The same folks who voted for Obama "elect the first black president" will do the same for Hillary to make her the first female president.

Competency has nothing to do with it.

And if you enjoyed 8 years of every criticism being labelled as "racist!", you'll love another 4 of "sexist!"

jr565 said...

Lewinsky was young and seems really to have fallen in love with Bill Clinton, who blithely used her for his selfish amusement, but she was an adult and she made choices. As Ruth Marcus said, "women get to use sex... just like men." That's freedom. That's personal autonomy. And a lot of use goes on."


Yeah, but Clinton oversaw the passage of sexual harrassment laws that made sex between the boss and the secretary sexual harrassment even if it was consensual. Because of the power differential between the boss and the secretary.
And feminists would use such examples as proof of harassment of women in the work force. And if a republican were ensnared by these laws he'd be toast.
So I do t want to hear about how sex with the boss is suddenly consensual behavior if you're passing rules to ensnare bosses for that exact behavior.

jr565 said...

Do all the people saying what Clinton did was consensual remember Bob Packwood? Because I sure do. Run out of town on a rail for hitting on subordinates.
And back when it happened the feminists were up in arms over this behavior.
Again, the double standard is really galling.

jr565 said...

I'm willing to bet that when it comes time to run Hillary will be nowhere. She's old and tired. She's out of the public eye and she has so much baggage and none of Clinton's charisma. There will be another dem contender that comes forward that will displace her. Who they is, I'm not sure yet.
I'd be willing to bet money on it. (Just not with anyone here). She is NOT going to be the next president.

jr565 said...

"Ruth Marcus, noting the tendency of Republicans like Mike Huckabee and Rand Paul to portray women, "when it comes to sex and sexual activity," as "either innocent victims or... sexually promiscuous, slutty, low-life women." It should be that "women get to use sex and sexual activity and with that use contraception responsibly just like men do."


Um, isn't that kind of how feminists are treating women? If they want to push the harrasment then women are helpless,
If they are pushing the empowerment the. Women may be sluts but what's wrong with that? Slut shaming is now a sin. And as they say when a man is assertive he's considered masculine. But when a woman is assertive she's a bitch.
Or if a guy acts like a slut he's sowing his oats while a woman acting like a man is a slut.
Depending on the argument feminists are trying to push they are either sluts or victims. So this suggestion that it's republicans suggesting women are this way is projection

jr565 said...

Althouse wrote that Hillary should run as if she's the best.
But, the best at what? Certainly not protecting an embassy.
Is she best as a senator? Really now, I lived in manhattan when she was a senator there and she was decidedly not special.
I'm trying to think of any signature legislation that could be tied to her. And drawing a blank.
Was she best at standing by her man while decrying the vast right wing conspiracy who pointed out that Clinton was guilty of exactly what they said he was?
Was she best at profits from dubious cattle
Future sales? Was she best at bungling health care?
What is she best at?
And she's not even gifted at politics the way Clinton is.
No, what she has is the projection of dems to assing attributes to her that aren't there.
I'm sure she'll suddenly be a master orator
Much like Obama.
But really, people of moderate intelligence could see the flaws in Obama at the time. Despite all the lofty rhetoric about how articulate he was he simy wasn't. And yet he's still more exciting than Hillary.
And now dems want to go down the same road with Hillary.
It's not going to work since unlike Obama she is not young and charismatic. Rather, she is an old bag (and I mean that in the best possible sense). Clinton is not new, not a liberal hero. She's a boring establishment candidate.
And dems have to, finally, answer for 5 years of economic non recovery, a fubar health insurance
Debacle and the worst foreign policy since Carter.
Yes, that is Obama's administration and not hers.
But she's still a dem and the dems have been in charge for 5 years now. She can run against Obamas results but to do so runs askance of defending the liberal big govt project, which is going to alienate her
Base.

gregq said...

"If young women are "conquering the world" (as Paul said), why not credit Monica Lewinsky with her conquest of the world's most powerful man?"

If an early 20s intern has sex with a married CEO, is that "abuse of power" by the CEO? Is that an "imbalanced power relationship"?

In short: could a CEO get nailed for sexual harassment in that situation? Then hell yes Clinton deserved to get nailed in that situation.

Being the chief law enforcement officer in the US should impose more constraints on your behavior, not fewer.

Seeing Red said...

Im voting for Hillary's husband.

The 1st co-president.

Boomer wimmin will not be denied. OF COURSE they're voting for their ovaries.

mccullough said...

Obama will sink Hillary. He doesn't like her or Bill.

Seeing Red said...

Martinez has a track record.

William said...

Getting down on your knees and giving your boss a blow job is not generally considered an empowering act for a woman. I don't think Monica can claim to be all that skilled in the arts of seduction. She flashed her thong at the President when she first met him. What kind of woman flashes her thong at the President in an introductory meeting? The kind of woman who keeps a semen stained dress for safekeeping and confides all the good stuff to the only Republican in the office.....I agree that Monica was not a victim. She was empowered not by her seduction of Clinton but by her destruction of his reputation. She was the child of a messy divorce and had Daddy issues. Whatever else was going on in her relationship with Clinton, there was a strong subcurrent of resentment......One would hope that a President would have sufficient self control or discretion not to get caught in such snares, but Clinton did. She as empowered by her blow jobs but only in the way that Oswald was empowered by his rifle.

William said...

I read a bio of Mickey Mantle. Mantle was not much of a husband or father. He was an alcoholic who never met a prostitute or groupie he didn't like. He had gonorrhea several times. It wasn't specified in the book, but he probably passed the disease along to his wife.......Why did Mrs. Mantle stay married to him? Well, after all was said and done, being Mrs. Mickey Mantle made her special and significant, and there were more perks to that than being a divorcee.......I don't know the force that holds the Clintons together, but I don't think endless reservoirs of love and affection are part of the dynamic.

Greg Kemnitz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Revenant said...

This is similar to what I said yesterday: If young women are "conquering the world" (as Paul said), why not credit Monica Lewinsky with her conquest of the world's most powerful man?

It doesn't sound any smarter the second time around.

Brando said...

I understand why feminists and women in general would love to see a woman elected president and soon, and I understand why liberals would like to see such a woman that is supportive of their own political views. But I can't understand that they would be willing to support a person who has actually achieved nothing of note and completely lacks any political or leadership talents and has proven herself craven and pandering and willing to say or do anything to get ahead at each step, rather than someone of principle. And worse, I can't understand why anyone who favors female empowerment would wish to elevate and extol a woman who only got famous due to marrying and sticking by a man who has been a proven creep and philanderer, a repeat harasser, likely a repeat molester and possibly even a rapist. Hillary has also helped smear his accusers for crying out loud. Is this the sort of person they really want to hitch their wagon to?

We're living in an age where there are plenty of women in the upper tiers of politics who have actually gotten where they are on their own talents, who have some principles, and whose personal or public scandals do not involve actively undermining the very things that feminists stand for. Why on earth would they settle for Hillary?

exhelodrvr1 said...

You mean she should run on her record?

jr565 said...

"I think the sexual harassment problem in the case of Bill Clinton has to do with other women who were pressured to have sex and with the women and men who were not in a position to improve their standing in the workplace by interacting sexually with the boss."

I thought the problem was that the boss has undue power over your ability to move up the corporate ladder, so even if its consensual the argument is that the woman is afraid if she doesn't acquiesce it means she won't move up the corporate ladder.
As long as there is a quid pro quo, it's ok to engage in sexual harassment? so the boss can engage in affairs with the staff! but the lower level employees can't! precisely because they don't have the power to hire or fire if you don't go along with the relationship?

LarryK said...

Meade, let's not concede POTUS 2016 just yet. Hillary has huge negatives, including the fact that she's Hillary i.e. a losing personality, more wooden and less warm than Mitt, more shifty and dishonest than Nixon, no independent record of accomplishment aside from being married to the most talented Democratic pol of the last 50 yrs.

She'll also be running into the public's almost universal desire to shift parties at Pres. after two terms. That's not to say she doesn't have strengths too, but if the economy is bad - and it probably will be - even the GOP won't be incompetent enough to lose.

Who on the GOP side can beat her? Susana Martinez for one - handily. I also think Rand or even Ted Cruz, although he probably won't run. The left thinks these guys are too nutty to get elected, which is exactly what they thought about Reagan in 80 - they underestimate them at their peril.

Marty Keller said...

"That's not to say she doesn't have strengths too . . ." Which are, what, exactly?