December 22, 2013

"Sexual sins are numerous and many, I have a few myself. So what is your safest course of action?"

"If you’re a man, find yourself a woman, marry them and keep your sex right there. You can have fun, but one thing is for sure, as long as you are both healthy in the first place, you are not going to catch some debilitating illness, there is safety there. Commonsense says we are not going to procreate the human race unless we have a man and a woman. From the beginning Jesus said, 'It is a man and a woman.' Adam was made and Eve was made for this reason. They left their fathers and mothers and be united to become one flesh, that’s what marriage is all about. But we looked at it and said it was an outdated stereotype. When you look back at the human race, the sins have always been the same: We get high, we get drunk, we get laid, we steal and kill. Has this changed at all from the time God burnt up whole cities because their every thought was evil?"

Phil Robertson preaches, and The Daily Mail is there with exclusive access, trying to understand where he's coming from. And I'm trying to understand how this long game will play out.

90 comments:

Rae said...

There is a large proportion of people today who don't have the context to understand what he's saying.

Michael K said...

It will be interesting to watch the clueless elites try to understand what this is about.

Bourgeois behavior is the basis of civilization but is disdained by those who would not survive its loss. It would be amusing to watch the critics of Robertson try to survive in the world they seem to advocate.

Renee said...

It's late. I will respond tomorrow.

Sorun said...

"And I'm trying to understand how this long game will play out."

I betting Phil Robertson wins, or at least doesn't lose. Whatever.

Gabriel Hanna said...

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."


Said a guy who wrote for the Daily Mail on occasion.

YoungHegelian said...

I listen to the BBC every night as I lay in bed going to sleep. When it comes to religion, you cannot find a more clueless bunch on the planet, even going so far as to not understand why Joe Biden had a "dirty forehead" on Ash Wednesday.

The Mail, as a Tory paper, may be a little kinder towards faith, but the the cultural divide between them & Southern evangelical Christianity is so great as be unbridgeable.

Do you ever wonder why Europe has so much trouble with their Muslims & we don't? Maybe it's because we just aren't so ham-handed in dealing with people's religious beliefs. here, the default setting is some measure of respect. As I remember reading a Muslim imam who had been in Europe & now was in the US saying "At least here (the US), people don't stare at me like I'm from Mars when I tell them I pray five times a day".

Deirdre Mundy said...

Wow----he's really out there.... next he's going to start quoting Red Green...

"Hey Kids, I want to talk to you about free love. Remember, you get what you pay for...."

Michael K said...

There's an interesting interview with Jay Leno and Terry Bradshaw about how Robertson was the starting QB at Louisiana Tech while Bradshaw was backup. Robertson quit one year to go duck hunting and Bradshaw took over.

Harold said...

"If you’re a man, find yourself a woman, marry them and keep your sex right there. You can have fun, but one thing is for sure, as long as you are both healthy in the first place, you are not going to catch some debilitating illness, there is safety there."

Got that absolutely correct. What's difficut to understand about it?

Julius Reincarnate said...

Actually... Thinking about the long-term impacts on culture... Perhaps this is indicative of a greater appreciation of, and openness to, religion among Americans? Our government has gone to hell -- it's broke and ineffective and spying on all of us -- and the economy has been on life-support for six or seven years now. Cue Pope Francis. Cue Phil Robertson. Perhaps we'll consider Jesus again because things generally suck and there's gotta be something different? The liberals-- who, importantly, have the power!-- will predictably scream and protest. But the rest of us are still alive and kicking... and we want to LIVE!!!

Julius Reincarnate said...

What you gonna do when things go wrong?
What you gonna do when it all cracks up?
What you gonna do when the Love burns down?
What you gonna do when the flames go up?
Who is gonna come and turn the tide?
What's it gonna take to make a dream survive?
Who's got the touch to calm the storm inside?
(In the final moments...) Who's gonna save you?

YoungHegelian said...

@Julius,

Perhaps we'll consider Jesus again because things generally suck and there's gotta be something different?

I have said so in these pages before, and I'll say it again -- we're overdue for yet another Great Awakening.

n.n said...

We already know the outcome of following this path. History is replete with examples of both barbarity and civilization pursued to their logical extremes. Although, their simultaneous evolution was less obvious. We are just one more group of people to grapple with philosophical dissonance. There is nothing exceptional about our situation.

Julius Reincarnate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Julius Reincarnate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Julius Reincarnate said...

Let me comment personally. A few years ago I was a die-hard atheist. And now? What the **** is happening? Lost in depression, I chatted with a priest about a year ago... and his comments that leaps of faith can be taken everyday, not just as one-offs, and that continual openness to the Holy Spirit is (for lack of a better expression) how it words, have resonated strongly with me.

Now I look all around me and everywhere there is God. Even in the live performance youtubes of Simple Minds... Q.E.D.!!!

The human condition goes on and on like a pub crawl where the 12th and final pint is impossibly out of our grasp. We don't seem to be in a substantially dissimilar situation to the Jews of two millennia ago. As it was for them, so for us...

I can't be the only one who feels this way. The Phil Robertson phenomena seems to be a symptom of underlying general spiritual distress. It's not about Phil Robertson. I mean, he's edgy and provocative, and I like that, but Jesus was edgy and provocative too.

mccullough said...

The US is such a great country. We have a nice variety of people. The folks at the Mail are just a bit clueless on life on this side of the pond. Phil gives a better sermon than the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is just watching the decline of his church. Lots of religious people in the US and a lot of different religions.

David said...

He so . . . . . . . articulate!

(Was that racist?)

David said...

"Do you ever wonder why Europe has so much trouble with their Muslims & we don't? Maybe it's because we just aren't so ham-handed in dealing with people's religious beliefs. here, the default setting is some measure of respect."

Probably part of it. Those two oceans help a lot also.

MaxedOutMama said...

Why should there be any long game?

I don't get the question. What changes? Since the Jews observed that people who washed their hands before they ate stayed a whole lot healthier, people who washed their hands before they ate have stayed a whole lot healthier. What can change? We're not suddenly going to wake up in a world without pathogens! It would be nice, but it's not going to happen.

Living life drunk, stoned, wrathful or recklessly sexual has never worked out in practice and never will.

This has no political implications - it has only cultural implications, but those cultural implications have not changed over time and will never change over time.

You cannot change Phil Robertson's mind because he has fact on his side. That having been said, his type of belief is essentially non-governmental. It neither wishes to tyrannize nor to be tyrannized, and it cannot conceive of a need to enshrine itself in government because it does have fact on its side. It doesn't need government to punish - the stuff he's talking about - sin - is the punishment, and the government can't help people out of it.

At the founding of our nation, the electorate enshrined as a primal law that the government could either adopt or forbid religion, and the only thing that most people in this country want is for the government to stick to that basic law.

People like him don't want or need the approval of the Washington Post or Huffington Post or university staff, and they are collectively experiencing a stunned amazement and genuine compassion over the fact that so many people didn't recognize an almost literal quote from the Bible. To all those people, the readers of the Daily Mail are the ignorant ones living in darkness.

In our country it will be as it has always been. People have to choose for themselves the directions by which they will live their lives, and this makes room for us all.

YoungHegelian said...

@David,

Those two oceans help a lot also.

Yeah, but our Muslims really are better integrated & behaved. It's not the immigrants in Britain & France that are the problem. It's their kids. There's no Finsbury Mosque over here, even in some place like Dearborn.

Even the Muslims who do stuff over here go elsewhere to get radicalized (the Boston marathon bomber) or, like the 9-11 plotters, they avoid the local muslim communities entirely in order not to get exposed.

There was that recent guy in Kansas who "self-radicalized" using internet sources only. Let's hope he's not a trendsetter.

MaxedOutMama said...

Oops - the government could Neither adopt nor forbid religion. Minor technical typing difficulty there.

PB Reader said...

The "elites" think it's a game, and they fail to understand what's special about 2 in a marriage, with 1 being a man and the other 1 being a woman.

traditionalguy said...

Robertson is teaching his sons how to be men.

It's that simple. God picked a pagan cattle and sheep herder for the sole reason that " he would discipline his children", credited his faith as righteousness, and started Judaism and it's sect called Christianity, and was later adopted by Mohammed (minus a sacrifice for atonement) as well to block the power of the first two.

Free Speech is the key. Ergo: Christian Speech is illegal starting in Moslem lands, and coming here via Democrat politicians and censorship of "hate speech."

Jane said...

John the Baptist was killed - anyone remember why? He went straight to the top and irritated Herod and his wife for saying that their marriage was contrary to Old Testament law.

But he had a lot of supporters, so Herod was afraid to kill him - after the deed was done, Herod's PR department said it was his wife's idea.

After he was killed, Jesus heard the news and rowed off into a quiet corner.

There's not much new under the sun.

Kirk Parker said...

"If you’re a man, find yourself a woman, marry [her]...

Got that absolutely correct. What's difficut to understand about it?


Worked for me, at least. :-) At 36 years and counting, not really interested in changing horses mid-stream...


Young Hegalian @ 10:44pm, I fervently hope so!


mccullough,

"Phil gives a better sermon than the Archbishop of Canterbury,"

LOL!

But also, as an American Christian with plenty of Anglican and mainline roots along with the Evangelical ones, and who considers even the current Anglican Book of Common Prayer (much less the previous ones!) a fantastic achievement of spiritual development, weeping weeping weeping.

cyrus83 said...

This game will keep playing out until the end of humanity.

It's not like this is a new debate, and it's not like Robertson's taking the most extreme position. History has repeatedly seen movements and religions that have taught that the entire physical world is evil, sex especially so (see Gnostics, Albigensians). It has also seen the reverse, where sex and material pleasures are celebrated as sacred ritual. Society never quite seems to get this balance right, so it lurches between periods of prudery and permissiveness. Some fifty years after the sexual revolution, expect a turn to prudery again, especially as the Boomer generation ages out of the picture.

Robertson's position is essentially functional: the purpose of marriage and sex are procreation. Besides the physical aspect, this position also flows from Christianity's traditional view that in heaven there is no more sex, because there is no more need for the children it brings forth.

John Lynch said...

You cannot be a fully realized human being when you are imprisoned by your base desires. Sex, drugs, whatever, will not give you a full life. Almost everyone understands that life is more than sensuality. Addicts are not interesting people to be around.

I don't think many people really believe that we'd all be happier if only we had more access to sex and drugs. That ship sailed before I was born. The sexual revolution happened. It's over. Drugs are here to stay. We have to live with it. I'm Gen X, and I'm beyond tired of hearing about it. I'm fatigued. All the free love in the world buys nothing.

None of this is new; all of it has happened before. We're not progressing where no civilization has gone before. Sexual license and widespread drug use has been prevalent in the past. Georgian England had it all- teenage prostitutes, opium dens, you name it. There's also the ancient world of Greece and Rome, both of which were famously decadent for centuries before they fell apart.

This isn't just a Christian argument. It's really an argument for restraint rather than indulgence. There are a lot of people who refuse to understand that and want to talk about ignorant religion instead.

Kirk Parker said...

John Lynch,

"Georgian England"

Yeah, like the Hellfire Club? Preach it, brother! (I've seen the tower in/near High Wycombe that was the supposed scene of some of their debaucharies.)

Andy Freeman said...

> Phil gives a better sermon than the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is just watching the decline of his church.

The AoC is trying to "transform" his church because he doesn't actually believe in it, or his country.

Phil believe in his church, his family, and his country.

Unknown said...

I like to approach this subject from the opposite angle. I think everyone should have an uncontrollable erotic obsession once in their lives for some fixed duration, say, six months. Then afterwards, you can acknowledge the simple truth about it:

OMFG, thank God that's over! What a nightmare! Who in their right minds thinks that shit's fun, let alone a good idea? I guess those whacko-bird Christians are on to something with that "sins of the flesh" stuff!

n.n said...

John Lynch:

But not all religions are characterized by ignorance. The prejudice of people is to judge a philosophy by its philosopher.

Religion is a philosophy of morality. The article of faith underlying Judeo-Christian religion is that the philosopher has a divine (i.e. existing outside of our senses) presence. It would be immature to pass judgment on a philosophy simply because of a disagreement with the philosopher.

Furthermore, there is no inherent conflict between religious faith and science (i.e. a finite frame faith). As far as we know, the divine philosopher does not directly intervene in human affairs. He respects the underlying order of the universe he created and that we discover through scientific inquiry. Presumably this emancipation occurred in order to judge our fitness in a post-mortem review. If it does, some people will be surprised. If it doesn't, we will simply be dead.

Personally, I have adopted the religion, but not the faith. I am not sold on trusting this divine philosopher fellow; but, I do appreciate the moral philosophy he inspired, and its remarkable compatibility with reality as it is rather than as we would like it to be.

Julius Reincarnate said...

According to this piece in the Washington Post, Phil Robertson "[told] GQ that 'homosexual behavior' could 'just morph out' into 'bestiality.'"

But he didn't. He was asked, "What, in your mind, is sinful?" And he answered:

"Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men..."

He was talking about the ranges of sin, and the Washington Post is completely misrepresenting his ideas by cleverly mushing phrases together. It's quite deceptive. Very, very naughty!!!

n.n said...

You cannot be a fully realized human being when you are imprisoned by your base desires

I would add that by definition, the prerequisite for liberty is the capacity for self-moderating, responsible behavior. This is why we limit the liberty and responsibility of children. They do not possess the skill or knowledge to safely navigate their world. They lack the self-control and discipline which is normally correlated with maturity.

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Alex said...

When it comes to sex, it seems that the Althouse commentariat is obsessed with perversion. Perverted this, perverted that. They have perversion on the brain.

Alex said...

Imagine if everyone had more sex and less war.

John Lynch said...

I miss Andrew Breitbart. His gotcha tape of Shirley Sherrod had all the media types howling about out-of-context remarks.

OK, guys, so out of context remarks are bad and wrong.

But you take remarks from conservatives out of context every day! That was Breitbart's point. He just did unto others. Live by the rules.

What I find is that when there's a media kurfuffle about some conservative saying something outrageous there's always missing context. Every single time.

james conrad said...

I would say Phil is trying to start a conversation about faith and how it can save lives.
He is not some dumb redneck from bumble fuck Louisiana, he's a pretty sharp businessman and holds a masters degree from Louisiana Tech.

Bruce Hayden said...

What is the long game? Not sure if Phil and family will be that much in the news in a year or two. I think that they are evidence of a trend, and push it a bit, but are really just a bit of it. Same one really that put Sarah Palin on the national ballot in 2008.

I think that we are going through another religious reawakening in this country. Part, I think, is getting back to basics. This country used to be great, and if we move back to where we were spiritually and philosophically, we can be great again. Obama and his fellow travelers have moved as quickly and strongly as they could to destroy this greatness - in his case maybe from some internationalist spirit, but for many on the progressive side, for personal power and wealth. And the left's energetic destruction of much of what was good in this country, including the middle class, is driving much of this back to basics.

I think relatedly that this destruction by the left of so much that was great and important is fueling a great unease, and maybe even fear, for the future. Will our children's children's children have as much bounty of all types as we have had? Looking bleak right now, and the Dems putting everyone's health and wealth seriously at risk with ObamaCare, through the biggest power grab in our history, is making things much worse. Along with stealing trillions of our wealth to buy votes and enrich friends and families by our political elites.

Beyond the getting back to basics to regain our greatness, our wealth, prominence, and power, there is also the reality that religion offers answers, and Christianity, that was founded in, and grew in, an environment of extreme oppression and attack is likely one of the biggest winners here. It offers answers in a time of need.

Unfortunately, part of the message of Christianity is to render unto Caesar, and to keep our heads down, live virtuously, and we will be rewarded in the next generation. But this means keeping faith to ourselves, and in many cases to avoid the political realm, leaving that to the godless Romans, corrupt politicians, and bureaucratic functionaries. So, the movement continues to grow and expand underground, until our society is again renewed.

rhhardin said...

Perhaps the bible is a description of sex that works, a poetic work.

That has to do with what a marriage is, or was before the gay agenda to stamp it out.

From the man's point of view, the inability to understand his erotic attachment in spite of seeing everything, an everything which does not nevertheless present itself as an object but at most as a question, that inability is something unknowable which stands for the future, in particular for a child, who as an other is unknowable.

Pack that into a bible tweet and it goes poetic.

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Humperdink said...

My life experiences resemble Phil's. Hard living, booze, carousing, until I saw the light @ the age of 31.

As someone posited earlier, the sins of today are no different than those of yesteryear. (See Lot's experience.)

I remain mystified why Christians are so vilified. Most, not all, have cleaned their lives up. Some can be over over zealous to the point of being obnoxious (been there). I look back on my life and shudder at what gutter could be current residence.

Sin is bondage. Don't think so? Ask an alcoholic, drug abuser or sex addict. It took Jesus to liberate me.

Bob R said...

The DM article is a classic of the "Conservatives in the Mist" genre.

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Deirdre Mundy said...

RH Hardin-- Heck, there's a whole book of the Bible that's dedicated to sexual imagery-- The Song of Songs... and it's all heteronormative longing!

What was Solomon thinking when he wrote it? Would a wise man really exclude 3-10% of the population from his musings?

It should probably be relegated to the apocrypha for its intolerance, where it can hang out with women who get generals drunk and behead them, and Jews who'd rather submit to horrible martyrdoms than eat pork.

C Stanley said...

The long game: do you mean the game Robertson and A&E may be playing, or do you mean the cultural wars in general?

As for the first, a thought occurred to me. Some have speculated this may have been a planned publicity stunt. Certainly it has increased interest in a show that was already very popular. And just in time for Christmas, supporters are lapping up the merchandise to show

I wonder though if anyone really knows the terms of the contract for the show. I've heard that the family was unhappy with the restrictions placed on them for including prayer and other religious statements. Perhaps they wanted to force A&E's hand, getting them to end the contract, which might free the Robertson's up to take the show elsewhere.

It would be a hoot to find that the guy that the network thought was a dumb hick might have actually outfoxed them by using their network to build a huge audience and then taking his show to a network more friendly to his message.

Humperdink said...

@Diedre 3-10%?

Can you narrow that down for us a bit? Maybe throw in a hockey stick.

Renee said...

@ Humperdink

Yes. The paradox that religion is liberating.

For me it was the Sacrament of Confession.

Also transitioning off of contraception to natural family planning was in fact liberating. Bring myself to think and determine not only my fertility' but what to do with.

For how many decades, secular culture promote not to think about sex and just enjoy it with whoever and whenever. The secular message is 'don't think', where I find the Christian message is this is how you should love one another is how to do it wisely.

Also Christianity focuses alot on nonsexual love. We don't talk about friendship enough, and brotherly love.

Our culture has a collapse of trust.

Skeptical Voter said...

Re nn at 1:14 and having adopted the religion but not the faith. As a lapsed Methodist I admire and envy people who have faith. I wish I had it.

But as a cautious fellow, I try and follow the precepts of, and morality contained in a sort of General Protestant religion. Who knows, there may be a Hell and I don't have asbestos underwear . And as for running around both Phil Robertson and that great philosopher Satchel Paige had a point. "the social ramble ain't restful".

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Warning--unabashed religious speech ahead--don't read if it'll get your knickers in a twist--


Julius--I spent my twenties as a lukewarm atheist and I had a profound reversion experience at age 30. I read your mention of the curious spiritual things that are happening to you at another blog about a week ago and I have been praying for you since. My unsolicited advice is just what the priest likely told you--just be open to the Holy Spirit and see what happens. If you're feeling really frisky, you can try praying even if it feels weird. Maybe read some of the Gospels. You can always stop if you don't like it! Good luck--He's waiting for you : )

traditionalguy said...

It appears that Robertson is at war.

In his quoted public proclamation/prayer to God he said, " I will not give or back off from my path because you conquered death, Father."

Acting on that stated belief makes Robertson a dangerous man. His kind of blood bought Christian preacher overcomes his enemy simply because he does not love his life to the death.

So Robertson may be as rude and crude as it gets in war, but he is a real man.

RecChief said...

as long as it takes for the Obama administration to make Obamacare popular or Phil Robertson backs down and apologizes. If I was a betting man, I would say the former would happen before the latter.

Ralph Hyatt said...

Also, perhaps Christians don't use this tactic for the simple reason that it is not going to work?

"Whenever you find yourself in a conversation with a fat person, inform them that gluttony is a sin."

Humperdink said...

You miss the point Ralph.

We all sin and fall short.

Ralph Hyatt said...

"You miss the point Ralph.

We all sin and fall short."

I understand that, I addressed that aspect in another thread. It is just that the professor's hypothetical fails on several levels.

You have to meet the other person where they are.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Humperdink said...

My error.

somefeller said...

Here's another Robertson quote on gays, from 2010: “They’re full of murder, envy, strife, hatred. They are insolent, arrogant, God-haters. They are heartless, they are faithless, they are senseless, they are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil. That’s what you have 235 years, roughly, after your forefathers founded the country.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/phil-robertson-video-on-gays-duck-dynasty-suspension-2013-12

Yeah, he's just trying to help and doesn't single out gays in particular. But it's good to see that he's now trying to put a more inclusive, kinder and gentler face on his views. Interaction with cultural liberalism tends to make one more civilized.

sunsong said...

Jesus will take sins away. If you're homosexual he'll take it away, if you're an adulterer, if you're a liar, what's the difference? If you break one sin you may as well break them all."

Really - lol
That is just so wrong, imo

Humperdink said...

sunsong: Everybody has an opinion, imo. Some are rooted in truth, some are not. imo

ken in sc said...

I am surprised, although I shouldn't be, about these interviewers lack of knowledge about traditional Christian beliefs.

I am reminded of an account I read about someone going into a jewelry shop in England, looking for a small crucifix. The clerk asked if he wanted one with the little man on it, or a plain one. (hint: the one with the little man is a crucifix, the plain one is a cross.)

Modern culture suffers from such ignorance.

Drago said...

sunsong: "Really - lol
That is just so wrong, imo"

LOL

Obama is sort of a God: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/06/05/newsweek_editor_evan_thomas_obama_is_sort_of_god.html

We saw obama as a messiah: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/12/17/barbara_walters_on_obama_we_thought_he_was_going_to_be_the_next_messiah.html

Really - lol
That is just so wrong, imo

Drago said...

Humperdink, you have to understand that sunsong and her pals don't like anyone to confuse their messiah, obama, with that "other guy"...

sunsong said...

Humperdink,

Do you completely agree with Robertson's statement that I quoted? :

Jesus will take sins away. If you're homosexual he'll take it away, if you're an adulterer, if you're a liar, what's the difference? If you break one sin you may as well break them all."

Mike said...

Somefeller, that quote isn't about gays. It is another pretty close interpretation of New Testatment verses where Paul describes modern, immoral man. That you or Business Insider want to make it about gays is your shortcoming, not Phil's.

Mike said...

Su8nsong and Somefeller, do you disagree with Paul, writing to the Romans (Chapter 1 excerpted here)?

God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

That bolded text looks pretty fami9liar, doesn't it? I despise that the Left is now trying to make the public reading or quoting of the Bible an intolerable act. Of course, that is also predicted by the very Book they despise.

Mike said...

By the way, Faulkner borrowed the phrase "Sound and Fury" from Solomon. Yep stright outta the Bible. How sad we've come to a place where the "cultured elite" do not even know from where the gilded and truthful phrases come! Woe is us.

Renee said...

@sun song

no. If you experience same sex attraction, you can't make it ho away.

On the other hand no matter your orientation you don't deliberately tempt yourself with the possibility engaging in sin.

For instance I practice Natural Family Planning and I abstain from all forms of sex in my fertile phrase. The fertile phase in by nature when a woman is naturally more apt to want to have sex, even at a sub conscious level if she knows nothing about fertility.

While it is not a sin to sex in fertile or non-fertile phases.... you can't cheat.

I still live with my husband, but during this time we dont have a romantic dinner or think we can go this far without being nudged to just have sex.

Sometime you fail... and let's say masturbate. You don't beat yourself up as a sinner, you confess it and reflect what brought you to masterbate, and redirect yourself.


Its like when I read about the 'johns' that get arrested for soliciting sex.... is that really something you do on a moments notice? No you had to take several steps before you let a prostitute in your car.


In our culture we equate sex to not being lonely. We all know there is a lot of lonely sex out there, though.



Renee said...

A Brother Who Sins.*
15
h “If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
16
* i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17
j If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
18
* k Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19
* l Again, [amen,] I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.
20
* m For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”


Matthew Ch. 18

sunsong said...

do you disagree with Paul, writing to the Romans (Chapter 1 excerpted here)?

Of course. I am not Christian. I don't believe the Bible is true. I don't even think it has been translated correctly. I like some of the passages in the four gospels but disagree with others. As for the whole Bible or for Paul, I definitely disagree. There are a lot of people who suppose that Paul was struggling with his own homosexuality :-)

I think that loving God and loving one another are way up there in importance. Where are you at with those?

sunsong said...

Renee,

I have no problem with you living your life as you choose. I have a problem if you think I should live my life they way you choose :-)

I assume you understand my point. Merry Christmas to you just the same.

Humperdink said...

@ sunsong. If you are willing to make a blanket statement that you don't believe the Bible, that's up to you.

You appear to extremely intelligent. I am sure you have a plan for yourself after your demise. What might it be? What is it based on? Care to share it?

sunsong said...

Humperdink,

2nd request:

Do you completely agree with Robertson's statement that I quoted? :

Jesus will take sins away. If you're homosexual he'll take it away, if you're an adulterer, if you're a liar, what's the difference? If you break one sin you may as well break them all."

I believe life is eternal. I believe I will be forever growing and becoming more - forever and ever and ever...

Humperdink said...

@ Sunsong. So I have been out pumping my oil wells. The ones I fracked (ha) Been real busy this afternoon. Cold, snowy but have to produce my oil and gas to keep those city dwellers warm.

That statement is clearly wrong. No, when you sin, you repent. That is to turn away and sin no more.

I don't know much about the quote you referenced. I would be surprised if he said such a thing. If he did, he is in error.

Humperdink said...

@sunsong. It's your turn. What's your plan and what is it based on?

sunsong said...

humperdink,

2nd time I'm answering:-)

I believe life is eternal. I believe I will be forever growing and becoming more - forever and ever and ever...

Did you not read the article this thread is based on?

link

You originally said to me:

Everybody has an opinion, imo. Some are rooted in truth, some are not. imo giving the impression that the quote from Robertson was in your opinion "rooted in truth"

Are you retracting that now as you say it is error?

Humperdink said...

No, my rooted in truth comment had nothing to due with Robertson's statement. I was mocking your use of the "imo'. Sorry for the confusion.

You said: "I believe life is eternal. I believe I will be forever growing and becoming more - forever and ever and ever..."

Based on?

Humperdink said...

@sunsong. I am really curious as to what you are basing this belief?

sunsong said...

humperdink,

Interesting. I find people who don't realize that what they are expressing is their opinion - quite dull.

I base my "plan" on my belief and it is my opinion that we have reached the conclusion of this "conversation" :-)

Merry Christmas to you

Renee said...

@sunsong,

Same here though....

But I'm being told to accept behavior as normal or be shamed as if I'm ignorant bigot, then people utilizing my faith as a target of their anger toward the mere statement the a penis was designed for a vagina for the purposes of not only reproduction but to further bond male and female in fidelity to raise their offspring.

Reproductive organs male and female were designed for each other, you may choose not to use them in such a manner but YOU CAN NOT DENY their design and meaning.

But there is a point where it isn't about my feelings or your feelings, but rather objectivity.

You can do what you please, but you can't force me to pretend that every thing is the same or equal to one another. But that is what it happening, if I want to participate in the public I must obey this cultural and legal fiction that there is no difference between heterosexual and homosexual behavior.

Behavior has consequences, and even without a belief in heaven or hell there are objective consequences we have to deal with as a society.

Natural (not religious) consequences exists, I can't pretend as a matter of culture or public policy that they don't.

Howard Law Journal

"In a recent decision from New York’s appellate division, (2006 which is not old) the court stated that: It is an undisputed fact that the vast majority of procreation still occurs as a result of sexual intercourse between a male and a female. In light of such a fact, “[t]he State could reasonably decide that by encouraging opposite-sex couples to marry, thereby assuming legal and financial obligations, the children born from such relationships will have better opportunities to be nurtured and raised by two parents within long-term, committed relationships, which society has traditionally viewed as advantageous for children.”65 The risk of a redefinition of marriage is that this social understanding and the goods it promotes are in danger of being lost in the new adultcentered version of marriage."


Sigh...

Secrets of the Phallus: Why is the Penis Shaped Like That

"Now, the irony doesn’t escape me. But in spite of the fact that this particular evolutionary psychologist (yours truly) is gay, for the purposes of research we must consider the evolution of the human penis in relation to the human vagina. Magnetic imaging studies of heterosexual couples having sex reveal that, during coitus, the typical penis completely expands and occupies the vaginal tract, and with full penetration can even reach the woman’s cervix and lift her uterus. This combined with the fact that human ejaculate is expelled with great force and considerable distance (up to two feet if not contained), suggests that men are designed to release sperm into the uppermost portion of the vagina possible. "

Humperdink said...

@ sunsong. Merry Christmas to you also.

Then you did a hit and run. You copped out. Surely you have evidence for your plan. I am curious.

PS I am not surprised. When confronted about their beliefs, most people have nothing but good and pleasant thoughts about eternal life. Based on? Well, good and pleasant thoughts.

Dr Weevil said...

"I don't believe the Bible is true. I don't even think it has been translated correctly." Really? Not even once? You do know it's been translated into English dozens of times, into other languages hundreds of times, don't you? Are all of these translations incorrect? Are none of them fairly close to the Hebrew-Aramaic-Greek originals? Which one(s) do you prefer as more accurate, and what is the basis for your preference?