I suspect he wouldn't want to hear my truly dismissive response, but if you search the comments at my somewhat dismissive response... and over here... you can extrapolate what it would be. I'll cherry-pick some clues as to what I would say if I chose to go hard-core on this subject.
Quoting a commenter who said — about my proposal that health insurance pay for vasectomies and men freeze their sperm in order to provide males with reproductive autonomy — "Point of order, the woman has a right to seek an abortion. There's nothing about anyone having to provide it to her or having Other People pay for it," I said:
That's true, and that is something that makes the proposal in my post not neatly about equality.Quoting a commenter who said, "Your logic is correct for our pathetic society, but that doesn't rob from how pathetic it is," I said:
But there really can never be equality about pregnancy and childbirth. It is the woman's special burden, and the policies have to be arranged to make sense around that basic inequity. I'm not trying to punish men by imposing a corresponding inequity, I'm just not impressed by the whinings of males who were profligate with their sperm. They are not the backbone of society.
The backbone of society is the married, committed couple who channel their sexuality into making and growing the next generation. Those who do other things are free to make choices, but we as a society have no reason to facilitate their choices, especially their destructive choices.
I know people like their free sex, but the expectation that the rest of us will save them from consequences is pathetic. I heartlessly laugh in their face.
Yeah, but that's my point. My real prescription isn't [the vasectomy/frozen sperm proposal]. This is a fall-back now that we've become pathetic.Quoting a commenter who said "Women are just as responsible themselves..." I said:
Really, men need to keep track of their genetic material. One way or another.
Don't be a splooge stooge.
I never said they weren't.And, on the earlier post, quoting a commenter who said "Let's try applying your logic the other way. Women are free to freeze their eggs and then have their tubes tied. That way they have perfect choice not to get pregnant. So that does away with the case for abortion, right?" I said:
Both are fully responsible.
The fact is, once a woman is pregnant, she has a right to use abortion to get out of the physical process that has begun, but it is too late for the man to exercise a right, because his rights relate to his body, not hers.Reacting to all the many, many comments from men who have taken Instapundit's invitation to victimology seriously, I said (punctuation corrected):
The man must take responsibility for himself, not seek to control the woman.
I know you men would like to have your fun and freedom and not be troubled by risks, but your body is yours and her body is hers.
There are some really sad beta posturings in this thread.Another commenter said "You are also forgetting that even if a condom is used and the woman fishes the condom out of the trash and uses a turkey baster to impregnate herself, the man is still held responsible. If a woman takes a used condom from a man having sex *with a different woman* and impregnates herself, the man is held responsible. If a man and woman only engage in oral sex and the woman saves the sperm for later use with a turkey baster, the man is held responsible. None of that means that the man has any actual *rights* in regards to the child." Which made me say:
Where is the self-respect?
Where is the awe over procreation?
Lame little men, whining about their meager money.
No one cares about you, because no one should!
Where is your aspiration? Where is your altruism?
Why do you leave the house?
You have your porn and your masturbation.
The alternative is true manhood, but is that something you are capable of? Apparently not!
I laugh in your scrunched up crying little face.
I am absolutely not forgetting about that.And (emphasis added):
Men need to value and guard their genetic material.
The lameness of men who throw this stuff around is mindboggling. Don't be [a] splooge stooge.
Now, I think women shouldn't want to invest their reproductive effort in such idiots, but that's the other side of the story.
The men who are saying: I want something because women have something.And somebody said: "Then there are cases like the one (likely more than one...), where a woman who performed (only) oral sex with a man, using a condom, retrieved the condom and inseminated herself, and successfully sued for child support. IMO if a man does something that physiologically cannot produce conception without the woman's deliberate and willfully deceptive action, he is not responsible in any way for the conception." And I said:
If you don't have the wherewithal to realize what you are... you are no longer men, and women should be rejecting you. I can't account for all these women, but at least, if they become pregnant, they take on an immense burden. They feel that.
You guys... I wonder if you feel anything at all.
You are unworthy. The reason something ought to save you from becoming fathers is that you are unworthy, but unfortunately, it seems that some women do still choose to have sex with you and even to bear your children.
And that -- THAT! -- is what you complain is your misfortune.
Amazing blindness. Your misfortune is so much worse than that.
I don't know why a woman would invest her reproductive effort in carrying forward the genes of such a man, but I have no sympathy with him at all.The whining and crying about what victims men are these days continued way into the night. In the morning I saw a comment that began with the burnt-out old internet expression "sigh": "Sigh. And yet a wife can make the choice to abort her kid without even telling her husband. Shoudnt they be consulting their husband?" I had to take another shot:
Your phrase "physiologically cannot produce conception" is obviously wrong, since it did.
I fear for the future of humankind, with such stupidity in our inheritance.
The man is an idiot, and the woman is an idiot. Maybe the child can rise above it.
But sympathy for this man who has no love and no self-respect? Why don't you save your compassion for someone who deserves it?
This men's rights stuff was old-hat in the 1980s. Recycling it now is the lamest thing I've seen in a long, long time.
If you really cared about men, you'd try to do something to elevate them, as I am trying right now. Instead you are inviting them into a downward spiral. This is worse than The Life of Julia.
Yes, and that's exactly the reason Planned Parenthood v. Casey gave for striking down a statutory requirement that a woman consult her husband.Picture me singing that last line like this:
Think about it.
And stop your sighing.
UPDATE: Glenn responds to this here, and I respond to that here.