April 26, 2013

Speaking of my stream of consciousness, blowjobs, and "the Golden Age of Male Rage"...

"Surprise! Psycho Mother of Boston Bombers Also on Terror Watch List. Kind of a blow to Nina Burleigh’s sophomoric pyschosexual theory, though. Burleigh, for those who have forgotten, is the reporter who said she’d be happy to give Bill Clinton a blowjob in thanks for his efforts to keep abortion legal. Form your own psychosexual theories if you wish...."

I'm reading Instapundit and thinking there's a lot of rich material for me, but guess where I get sidetracked?

1. Blow to Nina Burleigh... blowjob from Nina Burleigh... interesting double use of "blow," hmm, I wonder what the etymology of "blow" is and let's check out the OED, oh wait, didn't I do a language riff on "blowjob" before?... No. That's not it.

2. Psycho Mother revelation... I already called bullshit on this lady's theatrical posings and yammerings, where's that old link?... No. That's not it.

3. Blowjobs in thanks for abortion rights...  blowjobs are another way to avert pregnancy... if women were truly enthusiastic about blowjobs, we wouldn't need abortion rights... but Burleigh's apparently not enthusiastic about blowjobs, because she's offering one in payment to Bill Clinton for the favor that he's done in keeping abortion legal as opposed to seeing giving and getting a blowjob as an even exchange, complete in itself.... No. That's not it.

4. Instapundit misspelled "psychosexual" the first time he used it. Nah. I'm just noticing that now.

5. I clicked through to the "sophomoric" theory, referring to "the Golden Age of Male Rage," the 3rd paragraph of which begins: "Curiously, these guys belong to the gender with all the physical strength and most of the well-paying jobs in the world." Well-paying jobs? Isn't it good-paying jobs? I ask Meade: "Which is correct 'well-paying jobs' or 'good-paying jobs'?" He says "good-paying." Yes, that's what I think, but how do we know that? We spend 10 minutes trying to explain the reason, and I find this discussion at UsingEnglish.com, which doesn't resolve the question to my liking but includes some choice Obama-blaming:
... I recently saw an Obama ad in which he uses the phrase "good-paying jobs," as well as a WSJ article where the phrase was used. It seems that whenever Obama uses a phrase, or pronunciation (like divissive, rather than divisive), everyone thinks he's right and starts using it.
It's true: Obama says "good-paying." My instinct says that's right (and not because Obama's saying something makes it seem right), but I can't articulate exactly why. I know how to say why "well-paying jobs" is correct: paying is an adjective, well modifies paying, and you use an adverb to modify an adjective. But I think that's incorrect. You wouldn't say "That's a highly paying job," would you? You would, obviously, say: "I am well paid," not "I am good paid." But you'd say: "That's good pay," not "That's well pay." I think the answer I'm looking for has something to do with constructing "good-paying" out of "good pay." Maybe we should start the colloquialism "good-pay jobs" to get us out of this jam.

So there's your answer. That's where the mind of Althouse went with this material. Feel free to discuss Terror Mom and The Blowjobs.

6. Speaking of my stream of consciousness, blowjobs, and Burleigh's "the Golden Age of Male Rage," I've always loved George Carlin's response to his mother's threat that when his father gets home "he's gonna read you the riot act": "Tell him I already read it myself. And I didn't like it, either; I consider it wordy and poorly thought out. He wants to read me something, how about 'The Gentlemen's Guide to the Golden Age of Blowjobs'?"

7. If you think this post wordy and poorly thought out, reel out your psychosexual theories in the comments.

8. [ADDED] I've become convinced that both "good-paying" and "well-paying" are wrong. What is needed is not an adjective (good) or an adverb (well) but a noun as in "money-paying job." The reason "good-paying job" sounds better is, I think, because it's an elision of "good-money-paying job."

97 comments:

Strelnikov said...

"Well-paying" is correct. Jobs "pay well". They do not "pay good".

gerry said...

"Terror-Mom" and "blowjobs" in the same sentence is somehow really disturbing.

Really.

BarrySanders20 said...

He enjoys a good paying job. He is well paid.

He enjoys a good blowjob. He likely is well laid.

Chip S. said...

What Strelnikov said.

You wouldn't say "That's a highly paying job," would you?

No. You'd say "high-paying job", being careful to hyphenate a compound adjective.

Now how about arguing over the pronunciation of "short-lived"?

virgil xenophon said...

One "plays out" the line/hose, etc., Ann, then "reels it in."

Ann Althouse said...

Terror Mom and The Blowjobs... it's a punk band.

Inga said...

Meade and I were taliking.... Blah.... Blah stream of conciousness.... Blah...blah....well paid to give good blowjob....blah....blah....psychobabble.

Chip S. said...

Whereas in your case, Inga, it's usually psycho babble.

virgil xenophon said...

And Strelnikov is correct..

roesch/voltaire said...

I think this riff is just blowing in the wind.

Titus said...

Terror and blowjobs combined are incredibly intoxicating and hot.

tits.

Peter said...

From the sometimes-reliable Wikipedia: "In Latin and English grammar, the gerund is a non-finite verb form used to make a verb phrase that can serve in place of a noun phrase."

So, if "paying job" is a verb form that's serving as a noun phrase, then perhaps it would make sense to modify it with an adjective ("good") and not an adverb ("well")?

Colonel Angus said...

I never heard of Nina Burleigh. Blowjob for keeping abortion legal?

She sounds like a real prize.

Ann Althouse said...

"Now how about arguing over the pronunciation of "short-lived"?"

I hope you know this is a long-standing (not lengthily standing) bugaboo of mine.

I have been telling students to pronounce long-lived and short-lived with a long "i" for over a quarter of a century. (It's like long-haired and short-haired! "Lived" means possessed of a life.)

AprilApple said...

Would Nina Burleigh give Bill and Obama a blow job to keep Late Term abortion legal?

ndspinelli said...

I ran out of bread crumbs trying to follow the train of thought. But, when a male sees "blowjob" it makes us all ADHD.

ndspinelli said...

Particularly Titus.

Ann Althouse said...

We easily see that it's correct to say: "money-paying job" or "salary-paying job." The job pays money. It doesn't pay in the style of money.

But then there's the problem Strelnikov's point suggests. The job doesn't pay a person with the substance "good." So I'm only on the road to explaining why "well" is wrong. (It's not a noun... unless you're paid for some reason by getting a well, e.g., an oil well.)

He's a cash-paying customer.

My new theory is that both "well-paying" and "good-paying" are wrong.

What is needed is a noun!



ricpic said...

Blowjobs are great on the receiving end,
Who cares what the giver feels.
In any case what's to complain of,
Free and nutritious meals?

Chip S. said...

pronounce long-lived and short-lived with a long "i"

I agree. Long live the long-i pronunciation of "long-lived"!

Ann Althouse said...

It should be: good-money-paying.

Mitchell the Bat said...

If God had intended for women to give blowjobs He wouldn't have given them teeth.

edutcher said...

I detect a theme.

"Surprise! Psycho Mother of Boston Bombers Also on Terror Watch List."

Alarms shoulda been going off all over the place.

Looks like the Feds (and Choom and Big Sis and Weiner Holder) gotta lotta 'splainin' to do.

Colonel Angus said...

I never understood why it was called a blowjob. There isn't suppose to be any blowing.

Although it reminds me of a joke about the perfect woman who is yay high with a flat head to rest your beer on while she gives you a blow job.

furious_a said...

good-paying jobs

The pay is good.
...or...
The pay is well.

I know which way I'm voting.

William said...

In a previous thread, I advanced a theory about Tammy's crazy mom which Althouse inexplicably failed to headline and was not picked up by the wire services. My theory is this: Anyone who grows up with a mommy dearest like that woman is bound to feel a lot of submerged rage towards women. Tammy's subsequent anger was not directed so much at the west as at women. He had a history of striking them. If you want a religion that validates, indeed sanctifies, your distrust of and hostility towards women, then Islam is the way to go. The western value that that guys like Tammy are most disturbed by is the independence of our women. In a more godly country, women with bare limbs would not be allowed to compete in such an event.

Marshal said...

Shouldn't they be called suckjobs?

Mitchell the Bat said...
If God had intended for women to give blowjobs He wouldn't have given them teeth.


He included a tongue to place over the teeth.

Chip S. said...

All money is good. More money is better.

So it should be called a more better job.

Scott M said...

Scott M's Law Of Stream Of Consciousness blog posts says the longer a thread goes, the more likely it is that someone will mention the Spanish Inquisition.

Colonel Angus said...

If you want a religion that validates, indeed sanctifies, your distrust of and hostility towards women, then Islam is the way to go

Indeed. Which makes the left's instinctive reaction to throw a protective blanket over Islam when criticized all the more difficult to understand.

Chip S. said...

In a barter economy there are plenty of goods-paying jobs.

Hagar said...

"Good-paying" is part of the Democrat mantra.
They think that is how we common folk speak.

AllenS said...

"Good-paying jobs" -- "blowjobs" -- "well-paying jobs"... Didn't we just have this discussion involving Olympian Suzy Favor Hamilton?

That's where you get her and her idea of "good-paying blow jobs."

SteveR said...

I am not sure how to say it but I know what it means and how it feels. In either case.

Rob said...

Ann, you're absolutely right about long-lived and short-lived, but the issue may soon become moot because the use of participles as adjectives has been corrupted by the frequent omission of the -ed. See, e.g., "that's cliche"--not that's a cliche or that's cliched, but simply that's cliche. And while cliche is the canary in the coalmine, the missing -ed occurs with regularity for other participles too. TL;DR: We're doomed.

Trashhauler said...

No, good-paying job is correct. Jobs pay good money, they do not pay well money.

Chip S. said...

When she's ill, a woman is not well-looking, no matter how good-looking she may be.

Paddy O said...

Is this another one of those regional language distinctions.

Like pop or soda (or coke)?

Good-paying, well-paying, (handsomely paid)?

How are you doing, salary-wise? I am doing well. (not me personally, mind you, but grammatical me, yes).

Though, truth be told, when someone asks me (the actual me) how I am doing, I almost always reply, "good." One, because they don't really want to know and are just being polite. Two, because even though I know (or at least strongly suspect) that "well" is the right way to answer in the positive, I think "well" sounds pretentious and I don't want to sound pretentious.

~Dr. Paddy, BA, MDiv, PhD

john said...

The questions that haven't been asked are - would any male here switch his opinion on abortion for a blowjob from Nina Burleigh? If so, would one time do it, or would regular maintenance be needed to ensure future favorable support?

And the corollary: Is Ms. Burleigh just a "thanks-for-your-support" one timer, or is she a real "get-out-the-vote" blow jobber?

Nomennovum said...

Blowjob for keeping abortion legal.


Now there's a good reason for men to be on the pro-choice side.

Kev said...

(the other kev)

So Burleigh would have given Gosnell a hummer?

The Drill SGT said...

Well, she is smarter than your average left wing feminist with knee pads. I think she understands the order of magnitude difference in sexual oppression between the Evangelical Theocracy and say a Saudi or Tehran version.

David Davenport said...

What is needed is not an adjective (good) or an adverb (well) but a noun as in "money-paying job." The reason "good-paying job" sounds better is, I think, because it's an elision of "good-money-paying job."

///

"Well-paying" is correct. Jobs "pay well". They do not "pay good".


Ee-leetist grammar snobs on display here.

"Jobs that pay well" is gramatically correct, but "The pay's good for that job," leading to "That job pays good" is much more likely to be heard in vernacular American speech.

"Good-paying" is from "Jobs with good pay." "Good-paying" is much more idiomatic in American English.

"Well-paying"? First time I've ever heard that phrase.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

I think it comes from this sense:

Good, paying job.

Meaning a job that is "good", i.e. enjoyable, respectable, secure, etc. AND its pay rate is OK, too.

Mumpsimus said...

"Remunerative."

bgates said...

My new theory is that both "well-paying" and "good-paying" are wrong.

Maybe not so much wrong as slightly archaic.

BarrySanders20 said...

Jobs can also suck. What kinds of jobs can suck? Both good-paying ones (high paying) and bad-paying ones (low-paying).

Just because I am well-paid, that is, I have job paying good money, does not mean the job doesn't suck.

Just because I am poorly paid, that is, I have a job paying bad money(?), does not mean the job sucks.

My high paying job pays high money? No. My high paying job pays well money? No. My high paying job pays good money. Yes! I have a good (money) paying job.

My low paying job pays low money? No. My low paying job pays poor money? No. My low paying job pays bad money? Not that either. Doesn't seem to work in reverse.

Stick with high-paying and low-paying jobs. In the spirit of Madison: What kind of jobs do we want? Blowjobs! No -- High-paying jobs! When do we want them? Now!

David said...

So is it a good paying blow job or a well paying blow job?

The real value is a free and enthusiastic blow job. It's amazing how well they pay off in the long run anyway. Consider it an investment.

garage mahal said...

Isn't it a bit presumptuous to even be talking about "well-paying" or "good-paying" jobs? The Invisible Hand of the Free Market takes care of all that for us.

Chip S. said...

A blow job is often white-collar labor.

A hand job is always manual labor.

David Davenport said...

Good, paying job

As opposed to a good job without pay?

gerry said...

I think this riff is just blowing in the wind

Shouldn't that be I think this stiff is just blowing in the wind?

traditionalguy said...

The issue du jour is good money for the good paying jobs.

Today's dollars are shrinking like hot washed cotton T-shirts rather than the familiar slowly embalmed dollar artifacts.

And Good Male Rage requires a familiarity with life among groups of competitive men. The Lesbian writers have no measuring stick for it, but they pretend to understand it.

Chip S. said...

Yes. White House Intern, for one.

Inga said...

Well, posts about blowjobs brings in a goodly amount of comments.

traditionalguy said...

This post reminds me of an old but still relevant question:Are you paying for it or charging it to your account?

madAsHell said...

Obama is a good credentialed twit.

raf said...

Good - Better - Best.

I would prefer a better-paying job, but I have settled for a good-paying one; it is still the best-paying job I've ever had.

Sounds better than forcing "well" into it. Compound adjectives.

John said...

It's "well-paying job". Same construction as "fast-running stream" or "low-lying area". "Well," "fast," and "low," are all modifying "paying," "running," and "lying" respectively, in that they tell HOW the job pays, HOW the stream runs, and HOW the area lies.

"How does your job pay?
"It pays well."
"Ah, so it's a well-paying job?"
"Indeed it is."

Wally Ballou said...

You could say "remunerative jobs" but everyone would misspell it.

MikeDC said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MikeDC said...

The rewards of a job aren't always just pay, so it's probably

High-end blowjob giving prostitute = an unpleasant (for most) job that pays a high wage.

Would this qualify as a "good job"?

I don't think I'd work as a blowjob artist for most prices. I'd rather be a sandwich artist and make much less.

In economics, we call this the "compensating wage differential" required to induce people to choose the less pleasant over the more pleasant job.

So you can't really say the job pays a "good" amount of money without knowing what the job is.

Thus, it's pretty superfluous to talk about pay independently. Rather, simply consider whether it's a "good" job or not. If I were president, I'd simply argue for the creation of more "good jobs" not "good paying jobs".

David Davenport said...

"How does your job pay?
"It pays well."
"Ah, so it's a well-paying job?"
"Indeed it is."


More common among less punctilious speakers of AmerEng:

"How does your job pay?
"The pay's good."
"Ah, so it's a good-paying job?"
"Indeed it is."

/////

A "money-paying" job? As opposed to a job that does not pay money wages?

Paddy O said...

The more I think about it, I think these are different phrases (good paying vs. well paying).

A good paying job is a job that provides a salary sufficient to keep one thriving, and is a step up from previous jobs or other alternatives. So, it's comparative and subjective.

A well paying job is one that has a high salary for society in general.

A blue collar factory job could be a good paying job even if the person is not being well paid.

Tank said...

Taught my kids the difference between good and well when they were about five. They used that bit of knowledge to torture their aunts and uncles and grandparents for years.

Priceless.

And well paying. Look at all the joy I got.

Strelnikov said...

That's the least interesting article I've ever read that had "blowjob" in the title.

Chip S. said...

Speaking of odd speech, I just heard eminent Madisonian Michael Feldman pronounce "biopic" to rhyme w/ "myopic". It didn't sound like he was kidding, but then it never does.

I'll bet he uses a short i when he says "short-lived", too.

ndspinelli said...

ChipS, You go to pun hell when you die. That's a bp fastball, put it in the seats.

CEO-MMP said...

How did a post like this make it to around 67 comments without Titus appearing?



And Chip S. @ 10:17, nominated for post of the month.

David Davenport said...

A well paying job is one that has a high salary for society in general.

Can you cite any examples of that usage of "well paying job" in actual use?

Achilles said...

Colonel Angus said...

"If you want a religion that validates, indeed sanctifies, your distrust of and hostility towards women, then Islam is the way to go

Indeed. Which makes the left's instinctive reaction to throw a protective blanket over Islam when criticized all the more difficult to understand."

Why is it difficult to understand? The left is all about racism and sexism. Just because there are no objective standards on who to apply racism and sexist against doesn't mean they aren't in favor of it. You are misunderstanding their goal.

The left doesn't care about minorities, the poor, or women, or repressed religions. If they did they would implement policies that actually helped these groups. And when the leftist policies fail repeatedly they must have an answer to keep them voting for the leftists. This is where racism and sexism enter the picture.

Keep them in poverty and shitty public schools, enrich yourselves with anti-poverty programs, blame your society and opponents for their plight. Total win win win.

Basta! said...

"You wouldn't say "That's a highly paying job," would you?"

That's because the adjective high has two adverbial forms: highly, which means extremely, and high.

In the phrase "high paying job" high IS an adverb, and is parallel in form to "well paying job".

mariner said...

Not at all interested in Burleigh or Psycho Mother.

I enjoyed having a well-paying job. It wasn't a blow job.

Paddy O said...

"Can you cite any examples of that usage of "well paying job" in actual use?"

"A well-paying job is one that has a high salary for society in general"

Used in a comment section of althouse.blogspot.com

Also, my sister-in-law has a well-paying job at a consulting firm.*

*me, just now, using it, actually.

Michael The Magnificent said...

My business partner told his then 15 year old daughter that, "No one ever got pregnant from a blowjob."

She was not amused.

Belial said...

1. Well-paying job.
2. ?Good-paying job.
3. Fast-running stream.
4. Quickly-running stream.
5. ?Quick-running stream.
6. Low-lying area.
7. *Lowly-lying area.

This is a job for Language Log!

Belial said...

The trick is that it's an ergative construction.

A [ ]-paying job.
The job pays well.
*The job pays good.

furious_a said...

Which makes the left's instinctive reaction to throw a protective blanket over Islam when criticized all the more difficult to understand.

Well, let's try anyway...

Enemy of my enemy: The wider jihadist movement is implacably opposed to the capitalist West, much as the Left's late, lamented ideological home (and sometime quartermaster) the USSR was.

Heads-Win/Tails-Lose: Islamic terror is a convenient club for the Left -- if Tea Partiers didn't perpetrate the bombing they can surely be expected to perpetrate the reprisals.

EVERYbody hates Israel: Let's not let internecine strife like the secular Fatah movement being co-opted (or, in Gaza, liquidated) by the Islamist Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade derail our support for the Palestian people.

Islam is liberating: Feminists -- like Rachel Corrie -- find the hijab and burkha liberating because they free women from patriarchal control mechanisms like "body image" and "lookism".

Trashhauler said...

"Which makes the left's instinctive reaction to throw a protective blanket over Islam when criticized all the more difficult to understand."

Two threads of failure converge here. Lefty's are spring-loaded to the anti-West position, thus any enemy of my enemy is my friend. Islamic countries used to get points for supporting the Soviet Union or at least being anti-West while the Soviets were still the Left's standard bearers.

Smilin' Jack said...

Well-paying jobs? Isn't it good-paying jobs? I ask Meade: "Which is correct 'well-paying jobs' or 'good-paying jobs'?" He says "good-paying." Yes, that's what I think...

"Good-paying" is certainly the term for a job that pays well that I'd expect to be used by someone who writes as good as you do.

Steve Koch said...

I vote for well paying since paying is the present participle of pay (i.e. a verb) and verbs are modified by adverbs, not adjectives. "Good paying" sounds wrong, "well paying" sounds ok.

Chris Low said...

I am all for good jobs, period. After all, job must be satisfying to be good. For Bill Gates, a good job involves assorted philanthropy and low/no pay. It works for him; he doesn't need pay (good or bad). For me, with six people to support and limited savings, a good job requires income. So, good job. Enough said.

Smilin' Jack said...

What is needed is not an adjective (good) or an adverb (well) but a noun as in "money-paying job." The reason "good-paying job" sounds better is, I think, because it's an elision of "good-money-paying job."

Yeesh. I think I understand now why we're not seeing any more sentences from "Gatsby."

David Davenport said...

"Well-paying" is correct. Jobs "pay well". They do not "pay good".

Honest, I've heard the sentence, "The position pays well" ... Job interview talk.

However, I have never heard, anyone say, "The jobs is well-paying," or "It is a well-paying job."

How about the sentence, "The position is adequately compensated"? Is that passive construction OK under some theory of ergativity?

creeley23 said...

And how about the proper usage of this marriage-noun-thingie?

I say, some people are taking frightful liberties.

William said...

I'd like to offer further elaboration on my 10;30 insight into the mind of the Boston bomber. There has been some question about why the bombs went off so late into the marathon. Perhaps that's because he wasn't targeting the male runners so much as the women who were arriving at that time. These women wore skimpy outfits while competing. It would be fragrant in the nostrils of Allah if such women had their exposed limbs blown off. I know this is speculative on my part, but it does seem fair to say that Tammy had demonstrated a lot of hostility to women and to further posit that this hostility might explain his religious fervor and the target that he picked.

Tim said...

The Niners good paid, all-stud line-backer
Patrick Willis
just restructured his contract to give the Niners the cap space they'll need to sign their rookie draft class.

He's still good paid though; the new contract increased is guaranteed money, reduced his salary, and his net effect is $0.00, assuming no injuries.

If he is injured, he comes out ahead, as most NFL contracts, no matter how good paid, do not include guaranteed money.

In that regard, he is gooder paid.

And, the Niners, of course, are goooder off too.

Good to know!

Ed said...

"Well-paying" jobs is more common than "good-paying" jobs. Neither expression is incorrect. You can see the norms of American usage at http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

David Davenport said...

Good, paying job

As opposed to a good job without pay?


No. Paying as in the sense of "it pays to be vigilant' or 'your patience has paid off'.

Worth it, in other words.

Krumhorn said...

My son asks, "how does the Professor know that Obummer said 'good-paying jobs'? Maybe he said 'good, paying jobs'."

Krumhorn said...

My son asks, "how does the Professor know that Obummer said 'good-paying jobs'? Maybe he said 'good, paying jobs'."

David Davenport said...

"Well-paying" jobs is more common than "good-paying" jobs.

I simply do not believe that that is true, no matter what the Latter Day Saint U. web site says.

Unknown said...

Folks...let's end the confusion by dispensing with both good-paying and well-paying and say:

"Well-paid job."

It's correct and it doesn't sound awkward.

Rachel said...

Folks...let's end the confusion by dispensing with both good-paying and well-paying and say:

"Well-paid job."

It's correct and it doesn't sound awkward.

rhhardin said...

well-drilling

Captain Curt said...

I read a while back that the likely etymology of "blowjob" was from London prostitutes who called the act a "below job".

Not on any great authority, but it makes more sense than anything else I've heard.

Ralph L said...

If Obama had said "lucrative jobs", I would make a favorable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons.

This post reminded me of a mortifying moment from 30 years ago. My parents, 80+ grandmother and I were discussing haircuts, and I said something like, "the place I go charges $10 for a cut and blowjob," instead of blowdry. Grandma then asked, "What's a blowjob?" Thank goodness my father didn't start laughing.