October 10, 2012

I'm paraphrased by Rush Limbaugh.

On the show today:
A lot of people in the media and some left-wing bloggers are starting to scratch their heads about the inability of Obama and other members of the campaign and the regime to stop talking about how badly he did in the debate.  "Okay, you had a bad night. Forget it; move on.  Why keep talking about it?  Why keep reminding people how badly Obama did?"  Ann Althouse in Michigan has an interesting theory about this, and I'll paraphrase her.
Paraphrasing me all the way to Michigan.
She said, essentially, that the reason the campaign will not let go of how poorly Obama did is that they want everybody to think that's what happened.  It wasn't that Romney was good; it wasn't that Romney was anything special. The reason that debate happened the way it did is because Obama had an off night. Obama was the shock and surprise. Obama was off his game. Obama was pathetic. Obama was pitiful.

You keep repeating it over and over and over again because you don't want people to realize how great Romney was.  That's her theory, and I like it.  It's unique. It's great thinking.
Here's the post, de-paraphrased. I got Rush Limbaugh's "great thinking" stamp of approval, which might get me in trouble out here in the vicinity of Lake Michigan.

My post was also linked in James Taranto's Best of the Web today. He says:
Saying that Obama had a stinkeroo of a night is a way of avoiding the possibility that Romney is simply the better candidate.

If the remaining debates make the latter conclusion inescapable, watch lefties shift their focus to what a stinkeroo of a politician Obama turned out to be (now they tell us!). This, too, would entail a degree of wishful thinking. If Obama is undone, it will be not only because his political skills are lacking, but also because his record is poor.

And his record is poor because his ideas are bad. But as Matt Bai observes in the forthcoming issue of the New York Times magazine: "Political partisans will go to extraordinary lengths to blame the messenger rather than question the orthodoxies of their message."
Here's the Matt Bai piece, which I haven't read yet but will.

82 comments:

chickelit said...

Paraphrasing me all the way to Michigan.

You do have some kind of Michigan connect/roots though, correct?

Maybe Rush was referring to that in a code.

chickelit said...

A good theory has predictive value. What does Althouse predict the fawning media will do next?

David said...

It's flyover county, even to Rush.

Saint Croix said...

Here's the Matt Bai piece, which I haven't read yet but will.

You have to read it, it's hysterical. All about the "anguished Republicans."

LOL.

David said...

Chicklit, it's not a theory. It's a factual analysis.

Nevertheless predicting is easy. Althouse and others have already done it.

Big comeback by Obama. Huge. Wiped the floor with Mittens.

Saint Croix said...

Taranto is brutal to cite him. Hilarious. I love Taranto.

Time to rethink, Matt Bai! Get over your anguish and rethink! Maybe socialism is dead, dead, dead! Maybe none of us are socialists now!

Pete said...

Way to go, Althouse, for being paraphrased by El Rushbo!

Oclarki said...

For being the biggest voice on the right, Rush sure doesn't seem to be too up to speed on what happens in the blogosphere. What gives?

David said...

Bai has one point that should give all Republicans pause. Demographics. More particularly, though he does not put it that way, the rise of Hispanics as a group. Republicans should own Hispanic votes. Hispanics are mostly aspirational immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants. They have all kinds of values and beliefs that are consistent with the Republicans. But Republicans have fucked it up with misguided and inflammatory immigration policies and rhetoric. Amazingly stupid.

Michael K said...

The Mat Bai column must have been written before the first debate. He even mentions "three debates between Romney and Obama."

Clueless

He focuses on lowering taxes as problem for the Republicans when Obama own commission recommends the same thing.

I would agree that the Laffer curve seems less obvious with rates below 70% but the capital gains rate is the most important item now.

The left cannot bring itself to understand that the financial crisis was caused by the Democrats control of Fannie/Freddie and the requirement that banks lend to borrowers who can't repay without constantly inflating house prices. Obama, like Herbert Hoover in 1930, wants to keep house prices high when the market can't support them. Hoover wanted wages high and businesses went bankrupt.

SPImmortal said...

Bai has one point that should give all Republicans pause. Demographics. More particularly, though he does not put it that way, the rise of Hispanics as a group. Republicans should own Hispanic votes. Hispanics are mostly aspirational immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants. They have all kinds of values and beliefs that are consistent with the Republicans. But Republicans have fucked it up with misguided and inflammatory immigration policies and rhetoric. Amazingly stupid.

-------------------

Inflammatory immigration policies...like trying to protect the borders of this nation.

lol, are you for real?

SPImmortal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

"But Republicans have fucked it up with misguided and inflammatory immigration policies and rhetoric. Amazingly stupid."

The world is full of potential Republican voters who want to immigrate legally and build the economy. Democrats know they are better off importing illegals who are illiterate peasants and will depend on government for three or four generations. The Mexican immigrants of the 1940s and 50s came here to work and succeed. The ones who come now, come to save up and go back to Mexico.

SPImmortal said...

Bai has one point that should give all Republicans pause. Demographics. More particularly, though he does not put it that way, the rise of Hispanics as a group. Republicans should own Hispanic votes. Hispanics are mostly aspirational immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants. They have all kinds of values and beliefs that are consistent with the Republicans. But Republicans have fucked it up with misguided and inflammatory immigration policies and rhetoric. Amazingly stupid.

------------------

values consistent with republicans. lol holy shit.

You mean like Mexican Hispanics, whose home country has legalized gay marriage?

sleepless nights said...

@David Speaking as a Californian, that old trope isn't necessarily true anymore as the generations pass by. It was when I was a kid (more or less), but not so much now. The second and third gens are much different from the first, as are the more recent immigrants.

Confusing this is the issue of older line Mexican immigrants vs newer SA immigrants, Guatemalans for example. These groups tend to be lumped together by non-hispanics, when they have completely different dynamics.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

This is just human nature. You see this in sports all the time. When your favorite team is crushed you don't say "wow, we were OK but those other guys rocked!". Instead, you just say something like "we sucked."

madAsHell said...

Soooo....Rush reads Althouse.
Does Rush comment?....and which one of you scoundrels is it??

I am Spartacus.

chickelit said...

Republicans should own Hispanic votes.

They don't but news organizations like Univison are slowly changing this thanks to Erich Holder's colossal arrogance. Imagine releasing weapons into the American population as part of a big experiment wherein civilians get killed. Holder's arrogance was to assume that Mexican lives were worth less than American's.

Alex said...

David - what is the logical conclusion that the GOP shouldn't talk about the border? What should we infer from that?

DADvocate said...

Very nice of Rush to give you the credit you deserve. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

I think there is "theme-meme" mining software out there. When checking Sitemeter on my own blog, I've come across curious links hitting my page occasionally. I once mentioned shmoos, and two days later, Jonah Goldberg is talking shmoos. How often do you hear about shmoos, the answer to liberal dreams? Coincidence? I think not.

Nathan Alexander said...

Wait. I thought the things Rush said turned off moderate voters.

So if Rush quotes a moderate voter approvingly, why does the universe not end?

Alex said...

What if I was Rush this whole time? Think about it...

Alex said...

Can Ann even define what "moderate" means?

whswhs said...

Matt Bai ends his piece by saying, "You can channel the extremists, or you can lead your party toward modernity, but you really can’t do both." But that's an insight that applies to both parties. Obama's approach has been one of channeling the progressive or "liberal" extremists of his party, even when his plans alienated large numbers of voters. And the Democratic Party's current dedication to preserving and expanding every element of the New Deal and the post-World War II compromise certainly could not be called leading the country toward modernity—in fact, what the Democrats favor is the real conservative option.

Hagar said...

Yes. She is a moderate. Everyone else is immoderate something or other.

Hagar said...

Quick. Where is New Mexico?

furious_a said...

Althouse: I got Rush Limbaugh's "great thinking" stamp of approval.

You'll never do lunch in the Faculty Lounge again.

TosaGuy said...

"You can channel the extremists, or you can lead your party toward modernity, but you really can’t do both."

Wisconsin Democrats at the state level do not understand this.

The Crack Emcee said...

This, too, would entail a degree of wishful thinking.

The idea that everybody who's taken a side, in a contest between two losers, is engaged in wishful thing - that it's not just the other guys - is clearly too much to handle. Too much to even entertain, of course.

No, they must INSIST the self-flattery embedded in the idea that Romney, with the out-of-this-world belief system of Joseph Smith, is somehow superior to Obama's out-of-this world belief system of Oprah "The Secret" Winfrey, is correct because, otherwise, their self-identity as intelligent human beings - just like the Dems - will fall apart.

Didn't they just show that testosterone levels rise or fall with the losers?

The fact that they're insisting on people who never had their feet on the ground - which Obama's "green" nonsense and Romney's belief in cold fusion proves - MUST be ignored to keep the charade going:

Romney's a genius - Obama's "The One"!

Here's a news flash for James, Rush, and everybody else:

You're ALL crazy.

Mull THAT one over and get back to me,....

AF said...

What put it over the line from "interesting but wrong" to Rush Limbaugh territory was saying that this was a conspiracy by "colluding" pundits. Right. Chris Matthews and Andrew Sullivan were just pretending to melt down to hide the fact that Mitt Romney is Great.

The Crack Emcee said...

AF,

Mitt Romney is Great.

Yeah - a debating champion, with or without the sound down.

You guys intentionally clown yourselves, don't you?

Marshal said...

You have to wonder how long Bai was working on that piece and when he submitted it. The background doesn't even make sense any more.

Does he not get that? Or would he have had to rush something else together and so just let it go - perhaps understanding the NYT audience doesn't know what's going on around them anyway.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Greater Michigan does include Wisconsin, as well as Iowa, Minnesota, and parts of North and South Dakota.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Michigan-territory-1834-blue.png

Jay Vogt said...

Wow, I get to disagree with both the professor and Rush in one comment. You are both kinda right and kinda wrong.

As debates go, it wasn't a blowout. It was two semi-wonky guys trying to not screw up. They each succeeded well enough at that. Edge to Mitt on presence.

Importantly though, the teamObama/MSM response is based on their perspective, not yours. You note, "Here's why they did it. Romney was so much better than Obama".

The more telling perspective is theirs, which is, " Obama wasn't so much better than Romney". The expectation was that he would be.

And, response is a function of the difference between real outcome and expected outcome.

So, what was the expected outcome? It was an Aaron Sorkin written quality smackdown. That expectation is the product of the echo chamber distillery. Their reference point was simply wrong. It was an illusion crafted in Hollywood.

Cynical as I am, the response was not a calculation. It was simply a realization begging a recalculation.

You and Rush are both clever. In this case though, too much so by half.

Go Blue!

traditionalguy said...

Oh my God. What if Rush starts commenting here under a pen name? Then the entire blog will become a mutual admiration society. Their back and forth thinking will wear out us mere mortals.

The Issa hearings are Rush's big deal today. The truth being revealed could cause a total lack of applicants to become American Ambassadors. At least they could not buy life insurance a standard rates.

Amartel said...

"Soooo....Rush reads Althouse.
Does Rush comment?....and which one of you scoundrels is it??"

Haha. It's garagemahal. (He's in yr head, typin yr words.)

traditionalguy said...

That clever reference to Althouse from Michigan was a red herring. Rush probably reads her every day to raise his game.

Dave TN said...

In sports, in addition to saying "we sucked", you also add that the referees (Jim Lehrer) sucked and your opponent cheated (hanky notes).

Baron Zemo said...

I must admit it.

My talent is on loan from God.

Hagar said...

Several commenters need to be reminded that prior to the Louisiana Purchase almost all the land west of the Mississippi, all the way up into Canada, was Spanish territory, and that Napoleon only claimed to sell the French territory, New Orleans and a stretch up along the river. Jefferson just took advantage of the situation to claim everything not actually settled by Spain, and neither France nor Spain was in a position to lodge much of a protest at the end of the wars.

Now, in New Mexico the great land grant swindles were perpetrated under Republican auspices after the Civil War, which naturally made Democrats out of most of the Mexican population in northern New Mexico, but not all. In southern New Mexico, there are quite a few that are descended from the "California Column," an expedition organized by California Republicans and sent to New Mexico to oppose the Confederate invasion of 1862, and more, whose families became Republican in opposition to the depredations of the former Texas Confederates that swarmed into our state after the Civil War.
And in both areas there are people who became Republicans for other reasons too, so it is not all that one-sided.

Then also, what I have seen of the "illegals" recently arrived have been very industrious hard-working and dead honest people, who came here becausee the Mexican government drove their country into the ditch, and they went north looking for opportunity, just like my ancestors arrived in "Little Norway" when things got cold and dear in 19th century Norway.

There is no reason, other than sheer stupidity, why the Republican Party should abandon these people and just automatically assume them to bee natural born Democrats. They aren't.

edutcher said...

You're a living legend, Madame.

James Taranto, of course saw it the other way. Barry was his old self, which means not that good to begin with.

chickelit said...

Paraphrasing me all the way to Michigan.

You do have some kind of Michigan connect/roots though, correct?


Her BFA is from Ann Arbor.

Patrick said...

Actually, I bet Rush is America's Politico.

Chuck66 said...

I was listening to a Green Bay game on the radio a while back, with a couple of Viking fan co-workers. I had on GB radio network.

They got upset because whenever the other team would do something good, the announcers would say how the Pack didn't play well. They never gave the other team credit for a good play.

This is kind of the same thing. Obama supporters never give Romney credit, but instead say their guy didn't play it well.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

sleepless nights said...

Confusing this is the issue of older line Mexican immigrants vs newer SA immigrants, Guatemalans for example. These groups tend to be lumped together by non-hispanics, when they have completely different dynamics.

I'll go you one better. I'm in Phoenix and the facility I work at is in an industrial section of town. The surrounding neighborhoods are a mix of low income assimilated Mexicans and recent arrivals. Just down the road from me is Sonoran Auto Repair, two blocks from that is Mechanica Sinaloa, and another couple of blocks from that is a guy from Jalisco who fixes car a/c's.

What's the significance? In my experience the Mexican community still thinks along old country regional lines to some extent. No Sonoran in his right mind is going to let a Sinaloan fix his car! Them Sinaloans think cars got square wheels!

Our political classes have totally misread the situation. Chicano's in LA and Puerto Ricans in NYC may vote as a bloc, but most Hispanics are far more complex than that!

chickelit said...

Her BFA is from Ann Arbor.

No Ann Arboreal family tree?

chickelit said...

Patrick said...
Actually, I bet Rush is America's Politico.

LOL! You could be right!

Amartel said...

America's Politico is Baghdad Bob. (Bahdad Bob wasn't killed in the fighting BTW. He was questioned and released and now lives in the UAE.) I'm just saying: AP generates eerily similar blatantly obvious propaganda.

edutcher said...

North, I've noticed the same thing. Hispanic is no more than a linguistic heritage group - I worked with a guy from Colombia and it fascinated me that he pronounced the double ell like a J and not a Y as Mexicans would.

So even that is tenuous.

chick - good one.

Hagar said...

Also the way it works is that if the Romeros and the Chavezes are in a dispute about a right-of-way, or whatever, and the Romeros get help from the local Democrat pol, an aspiring Republican should politely and delicately offer his assistance to the Chavezes.

If he appears to really help, he may get the whole clan, even if not successful.

Rick said...

Let's have some sympathy for our host here: She is a boastful undecided but has gotten kudos from a popular but supposedly right-wing fanatical talk show host. What is the poor girl to do? Why, she must find some way to publish the compliment but simultaneously criticize its form.

The Crack Emcee said...

You know what's embarrassing?

To have a guy like Rush, who's spoken about NewAge as I see it - and claims to live in Realsville - backing Romney.

I mean, Romney follows Joseph Smith, who had a "seer stone" scam (NewAge) a gold digging scam (NewAge) angels (NewAge) multiple gods (NewAge) multiple gods on other planets (NewAge) plus subversively mixed a smorgasbord of religions together - from pure NewAge hooey to the Abrahamic (which is also pure NewAge) and still Rush says nothing.

Rush could actually save this country - by pointing out how far down the road to La-La-Land we've traveled to find ourselves here - and, instead, he's fighting to preserve the status quo of NewAge nonsense running the show. It's even running HIS show now, like he's somebody living in Rio Linda.

He - of all people - should see the wisdom of us now putting a real world, non-racial economist, like Thomas Sowell, in the White House, rather than another cult fruitcake with a wife tripping on some kind of eugenics program (you can't make this stuff up) as supposedly a worthy replacement for the last crew.

I've listened to him for years and know Rush knows better.

It's simply depressing,...

Moose said...

Aw - c'mon over to Grand Rapids. We don't mind that you're from Wisconsin...

Baron Zemo said...

I don't know who Rush is but I do know who the Crack Emcee really is!

jdniner said...

You know to most of us in the rest of the world a badger is pretty much a wolverine. No difference. Rush might set that right now. Could tip the election.

jdniner said...

Crack, You have to judge Romney by the fruit of his labors, not by your projection of the faults of the religion onto him. I believe Romney has an actual records of doing great public service. His character might be formed by his interpretation of the Book of Mormon. But he knows how to lead in a secular society.

By your standards we can put that same label on pretty much any person. Mainstream Mormonism is a few generations removed from extreme cultism. It still has its nut jobs but they are the exception rather than the rule.

ricpic said...

Whatever happened to a simple thank you when someone praises you? Even someone as ugly as the odious racisss Rush.

AllenS said...

Wow, if Rush is AP, then the definition of cruel neutrality needs to be updated.

Shantastik said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kirby Olson said...

All he can say is "I'm a postcolonial Marxist like my dad, and you know, let's forget Europe. Africa is the continent to emulate."

That would go over well.

I think Mitt's got a better deal: we were doing fine before this turkey flopped in with all his hope and change and turned the country into a flea market on the outskirts of Nairobi.

bagoh20 said...

It's just not true. The meme has always included plenty of Romney-did-very-well talk. Remember what Chris Mathews said very emphatically that night: "You know what Romney was doing? He was winning!"

There has always been plenty of that "Romney did great" talk, even from left wing people, because it was obvious. So, this "great thinking" is just not based in fact. It's a strawman, but yes, very creatively immolated, if you're into that kind of thing.

The Crack Emcee said...

jdniner,

Crack, You have to judge Romney by the fruit of his labors, not by your projection of the faults of the religion onto him.

Nope - garbage in/garbage out - people who hold crazy beliefs eventually act on them, and claiming it hasn't happened yet is no reason to put our country in that trajectory. Not to mention, you're then endorsing those beliefs yourself - giving that nonsense about indians being the lost tribe of israel credibility. What are you going to say when the kids tell you the president says so? He's an idiot and a liar? Well, why'd you vote for an idiot and a liar? And, if you'll vote for an idiot and a liar, why should they trust YOU? There's no end to it, and you can't put the genie back in the bottle once you open it - there goes YOUR credibility, along with his, and faith in not only the country but information itself.

You guys really aren't thinking anything through at all,...

Dante said...

Congratulations, Ann! On order of 10s of millions of people heard your name and opinion today.

SMSgt Mac said...

Rush was probably thinking of the Michigan Tourism Board's catchy slogan: "Welcome to Michigan, Gateway to Wisconsin!"

DADvocate said...

BTW - that's more than a pair of phrases. It's several sentences.

America's Politico said...

Rush will cry and cry again on 10/16.

That D-Day Romney will be FINISHED. The press have ALREADY written his obituary.

Bring flowers.

William said...

Althouse is a lively writer with many interesting and original insights into the passing scene. That's reason enough to read her, but beyond that she's a fan of Limbaugh's. Apparently she listens to him every day in toto. My guess is that there are not too many witty professors among Limbaugh's fan base. Perhaps he's as flattered by her attention as she is by his. Let the logs roll forth.

Kirk Parker said...

Crack,

I missed when Sowell was running...

Nichevo said...

Cracky: So the Abrahamic faiths are just as bad as Mormonism. So I, as a Jew, am just as bad as Romney. Yes? And all the other Jews on this board, and the 90%+ of us Althoosers who are Christian.

So what is there left to say after that?

The Crack Emcee said...

Nichevo,

Cracky: So the Abrahamic faiths are just as bad as Mormonism. So I, as a Jew, am just as bad as Romney. Yes? And all the other Jews on this board, and the 90%+ of us Althoosers who are Christian.

So what is there left to say after that?


What's left to say is you're misreading my words:

Try again.

bagoh20 said...

"Perhaps he's as flattered by her attention as she is by his."

He doesn't even know what state she's in, despite it being a major theme of her writing, and blog.

My praise should flatter her more. Besides, Rush is a racist with that Obama phone truth.

Phil 3:14 said...

This post remind me of this.

WineSlob said...

Prodded by the Blond Blogger's Fodder
He Nodded 'n Shot an Imprimatur
Annie Althouse's Way
At the Rush-Love Cafe
Now He's Got 'er and She's Never Felt Hotter.

yashu said...

Crack, You have to judge Romney by the fruit of his labors, not by your projection of the faults of the religion onto him.

This is what it comes down to. But you will never convince a certain kind of personality-- e.g. an obsessive, paranoid, narcissistic, or borderine personality-- of such a thing.

The Crack Emcee said...

You have to judge Romney by the fruit of his labors, not by your projection of the faults of the religion onto him.

Then why do I keep hearing so much about Rev. Wright?

Yashu, would your obsessive-about-what-I-say, paranoid-about-what-I-say, narcissistic-about-your-own-views-while-blind-to-others, as well as being my borderline stalker, care to chip in?

Saint Croix said...

Why do I keep hearing so much about Rev. Wright?

Because he's batshit crazy. Romney is not batshit crazy, and you sound batshit crazy when you try to spin him as batshit crazy. In fact it makes me batshit crazy dealing with your batshit craziness. Why does this election have to be about batshit crazy? What did Romney say in the debate that was batshit crazy, Crack? Anything? It's ridiculous.

On another thread, Crack says:

"Here's a video of Romney shocking the Mormons of Utah with a lie."

You link to a reporter who, like you, is trying to spin Romney as batshit crazy. And she does the typical atheist move of asking him if he hears voices.

Thus conflating religious belief with schizophrenia. Nice!

She is asking Romney the atheist bear trap question. "Should God speak to you..."

Since you think Romney is batshit crazy, you think the "honest" response would be to say, "I hear voices all the time. I am batshit crazy."

But Romney is not batshit crazy. And since he is not batshit crazy, he doesn't hear voices in his head, Crack.

Elsewhere on this thread you mock people who follow Abraham. Which is every Jew and Christian. But don't let that slow you down!

The Bible has a story about Abraham, who is told by God to kill his son in a sacrifice.

Yes, God is talking to Abraham. And not only is Abraham hearing God's voice, the voice is telling him to kill his son!

There are all kinds of interesting theological issues here. For instance, God is asking Abraham to make a sacrifice that God himself will make with Jesus.

But the reporter is not interested in theology, or understanding Genesis. The reporter's question is a bear trap because she wants to portray Romney as batshit crazy. "Should God speak to you" is secular-speak for "Are you crazy?"

And Romney, who is a politican, answers the question with humor. "I don't recall God speaking to me."

That's not a lie. Is it?

And then Romney says he doesn't recall God speaking to anyone since Moses at the burning bush. And "perhaps a few other people."

He's not being dishonest, nor is he dismissing his Mormon faith. He's skillfully avoiding a trap.

Like this reporter, you are attacking his Mormon faith. If you and she were honest, you would be making the same attack on any Christian or Jew who was running for office.

For a batshit crazy religios fanatic, Romney sure does spend a lot of time talking about economics. Why don't you try that?

Freeman Hunt said...

Hopefully we'll see a post from Althouse soon. Then we'll know she wasn't burned at the stake last night.

Nathan Alexander said...

Crack,
I'm starting to get the feeling you don't like Romney very much.

You've hidden it very well, tho, I don't think most people noticed.

The Crack Emcee said...

Saint Croix,

[Rev. Wright's] batshit crazy. Romney is not batshit crazy, and you sound batshit crazy when you try to spin him as batshit crazy.

No - when I start talking about tress growing at "just the right height," THEN I'll sound batshit crazy.

Romney's already there,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Nathan Alexander,

Crack,
I'm starting to get the feeling you don't like Romney very much.

You've hidden it very well, tho, I don't think most people noticed.


I'm sincerely confused/frustrated as to why we pick leaders who regularly lie and say crazy things - not to mention participating in cults - and then I'm forced to watch as segments of the public rise up to vigorously defend them when they're caught lying and saying crazy things.

As someone said recently, this is no way to run an airline,....

The Crack Emcee said...

Saint Croix,

Elsewhere on this thread you mock people who follow Abraham.

I did no such thing - I said I was misread. If you've followed this thread, then you know that - so you're intentionally lying.

Why am I not surprised?

Issob Morocco said...

Michigan, Wisconsin, same thing. Both on Great Lakes, Friday Fish Fry Dinners, love America, Big Ten Country. Butter, Beer, Beef and Potatoes, eskers and moraines, sandy beaches and lots of winter precipitation.

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