October 12, 2012

"FLASH: TV RATINGS FOR VP DEBATE DOWN SHARPLY... DEVELOPING... "

Says Drudge, in all caps, which... isn't that yelling? I'm tired of all this yelling!
CBS 10.4 MILLION
ABC 6.9 MILLION
NBC 6.8 MILLION
FOX 5.3 MILLION

*CABLE NUMBERS LATER TODAY...
**69.9 MILLION WATCHED IN 2008...
As I said, I'm tired of the yelling. I found the debate really hard to watch, but I kept watching because I was committed to live-blogging. Even still, I got catatonic. There was a point when I didn't write anything for 20 minutes and then I said:
Biden has been yelling at Martha Raddatz for the last 15 minutes (as the subject is war). It's so inappropriate!
The previous post had been:
The stress level is rising. Biden is so angry. Why is he yelling? Ryan needs nerves of steel not to lose his cool. I'm impressed that Ryan, when he gets his turn, is able to speak in an even, natural voice. It's hard to concentrate on the policy itself, because the emotional static is so strong.
That shows how I felt: pain. So here's my question. Ratings were down, I see, but when were the ratings taken? In the beginning? How did the ratings drop off over the course of the 90 minutes? Who was still around when Biden was yelling at Martha Raddatz for 15 minutes? How did the gender balance change over the course of the evening? I'll bet people — especially women — left in droves and the ratings were overall much worse than those already-low numbers say. And for the people that instinctively — with good human sense — clicked away, what was lodged in their mind was revulsion toward Biden. That's what happened to me. But then I stuck around, enduring the (second hand) brow-beating and bullying.

You know, I have an aversion to politics. If you've been reading this blog for a while, you might remember the old subtitle "Politics and the aversion to politics...." That was absolutely sincere. I am one of the many people — sensible people, many of them women! — who naturally withdraw from the political debate. It's just not worth it. Life is short, and much of it is beautiful and full of love. I want to go somewhere else. But somewhere else for me has been writing — ironically, about politics. That's an odd thing about me, but it puts me in a position where I can see some things that typical political junkies don't see. And I think I speak — in some way — for the people who would not watch that debate, certainly not much more than 20 minutes of it, with Biden's childish, clownish rudeness.

196 comments:

George said...

I really believe a third or more of viewers who tuned in left at some point during the Benghazi questions.

campy said...

I don't blame you for your aversion to politics, Ann.

Luckily this year we have a choice that transcends politics: President Barack Obama.

He's Awesome!!

Askance said...

Ann,

From your described perspective, do you think the minutes at the end, where it is being said that Biden was somewhat calmer and delivering a supposedly more pro-female message about his support for abortion -- somehow, despite his personal beliefs being in full agreement with his church -- were sufficiently persuasive to overcome the impression he made in the first 75 minutes?

Would it actually matter if people kept watching?

EMD said...

That's why I'm not beholden to a particular political party or politician.

Specifically, so I can stand away, from a distance, and observe the two major parties and how they operate. I can call BS on either one.

Yes, I have biases that tend to be more conservative, but i think I'm pretty consistent that I generally want the government to leave people alone — even on social issues like gay marriage.

I don't really like talking politics. This is the only place I really do that. I work in a very liberal field and it's hard to avoid the usual traps when bringing up politics.

gmama3 said...

Suppose this debate was a job interview for a co-worker or even a neighbor?

Who would want any interaction with Biden, he would be impossible in meetings, difficult to coordinate with and generally obnoxious.

Biden made me feel like he'd let his dog crap on my lawn then yell at me when I asked him to clean it up, because the dog did it.

Jay Retread said...

God Ann, you are one of the most un-self aware people I am aware of. Great unintended comedy though.

Shanna said...

I really believe a third or more of viewers who tuned in left at some point during the Benghazi questions.

I stopped watching right after that (and as many criticisms as there are of the mod, I was very pleased with her for starting with the thing I am most interested in hearing about just right now!) and tuned back in later online.

chickelit said...

As a remarked late last night in that 1000+ thread, I listened to the first half hour live on the the car radio and came away convinced that Biden was in control of the debate. When I switched over to TV at home I was shocked to see that what I had thought were Biden's "thoughtful pauses" were actually filled with those silent grimaces and mocking gestures. I wanted to see the moderator's face because I thought for sure it must be a two-way street--someone had to be egging him on.

Later on Twitter, I concluded that maybe Biden was just being himself--that that's the way things are in everyday at the Obama WH.

Ann Althouse said...

"From your described perspective, do you think the minutes at the end, where it is being said that Biden was somewhat calmer and delivering a supposedly more pro-female message about his support for abortion -- somehow, despite his personal beliefs being in full agreement with his church -- were sufficiently persuasive to overcome the impression he made in the first 75 minutes?"

No. I thought a combination of:

1. The old man finally tuckered himself out.

2. Asked to put on his Catholic Man mask, he slaps it right on.

3. What abortion supporter doesn't know enough to exhibit earnest respect for the entity he's about to commit to the exclusive care of its mother?

CJinPA said...

My wife doesn't like political debates, either formal ones or informal.

But someone has to do it. It's necessary.

Shouting Thomas said...

I got a phone call from a friend about 45 minutes into the debate, and I muted the TV.

It was a good excuse to get away from Biden's "liar!" act.

What in God's name are you supposed to do with these asshole lefties who do little but scream "bigot!" and "liar!"?

It's a plague in Woodstock.

Sorun said...

Again, I thank you for watching crap so I don't have to.

McTriumph said...

Sorry don't know where I read it, but one woman blogger wrote that Biden's style last night was an example of why many women hate talking to men.

CJinPA said...

Rush is now doing a funny impersonation of the "tuckered out Biden" answering the abortion quesiton.

Matthew Sablan said...

I thought the Biden we saw at the end and when he talked about his first wife was the real, actual Biden. He said things that sounded weird and that I didn't agree with, but he was warm, likeable and I could disagree without feeling like he hated me for it.

If that Biden had showed up through the whole debate, he could've won, handily.

Ann Althouse said...

"Sorry don't know where I read it, but one woman blogger wrote that Biden's style last night was an example of why many women hate talking to men."

Yes. You can't engage. What's the point? You'll have to turn into what you hate?

I'm trying to find a way here, but note that I am writing, and I have control of the front page.

I need my distance and my language to be in the fray.

Ann Althouse said...

"I thought the Biden we saw at the end and when he talked about his first wife was the real, actual Biden. He said things that sounded weird and that I didn't agree with, but he was warm, likeable and I could disagree without feeling like he hated me for it."

The part about the wife dying wasn't at the end, unless he went back to the story.

Ann Althouse said...

I have this, half an hour in:

"8:29: "The Vice President very well knows that the words don't always come out the right way," Ryan says, getting a laugh, defending Romney from the 47% charge. Instead of taking this graciously, Biden mutters something about how he believes everything he says. Ryan tells some stories about Romney's charity toward the unfortunate, which includes someone that was in a car accident, and Biden takes the opportunity to remind us that his own wife died in a car crash, which is sad, but oddly misplaced."

Seeing Red said...

1 of The Belmont Club posters said the same, Professor. His wife, no conservative told him to change the channel after 20 minutes, she couldn't stand Biden's attitude.

Matthew Sablan said...

Oh, I meant that at two different points in the debates (so, at the end was one point, but there was also a second point earlier on.) I was just being unclear.

roesch/voltaire said...

Askance glad to see I was not the only one who noticed how each answered those last questions. Biden's voice dropped as he revealed a deeper personal understanding, while Ryan kept up with the same sales pitch--hard to say Biden was unhinged after hearing that segment. And yes I watched the whole debate, even thought I have an aversion to the present two party system reduced to pandering for funds and under the wing of Citizens United which now controls the air waves with disgusting attack ads designed, I think, to turn folks away from politics.

Steve Austin said...

The unhinged lefty rapid response teams are now starting to show up in droves in the election threads that Ann does.

Because of these outbursts, the Nate Silver/Steve Austin election prediction model is now showing a 55% chance of a Romney win.

The only thing these posts are missing are warnings to Mitt Romney about how the "John Doe" investigation is going to bury him.

Nick Carter M. said...

My mom (an Independent Virginia voter) texted me 30 mins into the debate and wrote, "Biden is embarrassing." After I responded with, "You think so? He does seem to keep yelling," She wrote, "He keeps laughing. Very disrespectful."

I'm trusting her judgement.

garage mahal said...

I find the anecdotal evidence that seems to confirm that right wing families didn't appreciate Joe Biden's performance fascinating. I'm sure every family reacted the same way.

SMGalbraith said...

What were the goals for Biden and Ryan?

Not to beat each other, I think, but to help each other's candidate.

Biden had to stop the Romney momentum and rally the liberal base. It's early but I think he did both of those. The Obama bleeding in the polls has stopped (it appears) and the liberal base is going gaga about him.

Moderates, especially women, will be turned off by his performance. But Obama will have to win them over anyway. It won't be the VP.

Ryan won on style and perhaps substance. His goal was to keep the Romney momentum going. But Biden won on politics.

I think the VP accomplished what he had to do more than Ryan did.



SMGalbraith said...

I find the anecdotal evidence that seems to confirm that right wing families didn't appreciate Joe Biden's performance fascinating. I'm sure every family reacted the same way.

Lots of evidence that moderates, especially women, don't like this type of politicking.

I don't think it mattered in this debate. Obama will have to win the independents over.

But Althouse is probably right: moderates didn't like the jackassery of Biden.

roesch/voltaire said...

Althouse, Ryan's story about the accident was a follow-up to the statement he made claiming that "Romney is a car guy," and I thought a bizarre example of the claim, but Biden helped him out when he said, I do not doubt Romney's charity.

BarrySanders20 said...

Several great, series-ending MLB playoff games and an NFL game were viable alternatives for anyone seeking entertainment. Or, in my house, wife and daughters watching Downton Abbey on Masterpiece Theater.

Big Bird is a much softer target than the Dowager Countess. Mitt doesn't want to mess with her.

traditionalguy said...

Biden is an emotional machine ( primarily anger striking out) who does not do target recognition well. He was going off on the Moderator because he thinks women will take that yelling from him. He seemed afraid of Ryan who was the real Athlete and had the facts.

CJinPA said...

"The Vice President very well knows that the words don't always come out the right way," Ryan says

To which Biden should have replied: "Don't blame me. Blame that Neil Kinnock guy."

McTriumph said...

Unfortunately due to Biden's buffoonery, only the most political even watched this debate. The average citizen learned nothing, their takeaway will be the spin, the videos. The videos won't be kind to Biden.

traditionalguy said...

BTW, we love you, Professor.

Paddy O said...

"which now controls the air waves with disgusting attack ads designed, I think, to turn folks away from politics."

As opposed to the internet which makes politics more endearing because of all the well-constructed and earnest discussions between political opponents?

garage mahal said...

Lots of evidence that moderates, especially women, don't like this type of politicking.

I haven't personally seen that evidence from last night. But I was talking about all the right wingers who's right wing wives didn't appreciate Biden. Very helpful.

Calvin K said...

Watched the debate for a few minutes before my wife changed the channel. She leans very liberal and her comment on Biden's performance was that now she'll either vote for Romney/Ryan or not vote. She was disgusted by the facial expressions and interruptions made by Biden.

Shouting Thomas said...

"Aversion to politics" is a strange term for somebody who runs a mega-popular political blog.

But, I do understand.

Being in the public eye is one hell of a lot different than people who never had that experience think.

For every person who loves you, there is the equal and opposite reaction... the person who loathes you.

If you're a public performer, that reaction is fierce and astonishing.

There's always a price to pay. For everything.

Seeing Red said...

Wouldn't you just love to look at the breakdown? Don't they keep track in 15 minute increments?

McTriumph said...

Garage
Talk to any woman, right or left, the way Biden did last night, I doubt she'll say yes for a second date.

mishu said...

I can't believe anyone hasn't pointed this out yet. The reason ratings are way down is that Sarah Palin wasn't on the debate. Eye candy goes a long way.

AprilApple said...

People tuned in, watched Biden act like a rude jerk, and changed the channel.

Michigan and Trumbull said...

The 2008 ratings for the VP debate appear to be more of a historic anomaly-- probably due to the increased scrutiny of Sarah Palin, and the question of whether she was ready for prime time. The VP debate that year actually drew more viewers than any of the presidential debates between Obama and McCain, and was the second-most viewed televised debate in US history. Last night's ratings are more in line with pre-2008 VP debates.

Also, the 2008 VP debate was on October 2, right at the very start of the baseball playoffs. By contrast, the Yankees and Orioles were in a Game 4 showdown that ended up going 13 innings, and largely overlapped with the debate, and Detroit and Oakland's Game 5 elimination game started a half-hour into the debate. There also was a nationally-televised NFL game between Pittsburgh and Tennessee last night, whereas there were no early-season Thursday night games in 2008. It's likely that many potential viewers watched sports instead.

Howard said...

When the facts aren't on your side, pound the table, isn't that the motto of the bottom third of the law class?

Hammond X Gritzkofe said...

Ann said: "You know, I have an aversion to politics..."

A Libertarian (me) once said: "If you don't like what they do with the power, then don't give them the power."

CyndiF said...

Women tuned out because they wanted to watch the O's beat the Yankees.

Or was that just me?

McTriumph said...

mishu
Nothing is sexier than a woman that's beautiful, intelligent and strong.

Alex said...

Yes I'm sure 100% of moderates were repulsed by Ryan last night. You go garagey-boy!

Amy said...

Paul Ryan isn't eye candy? Did you see those P90X pix that were published yesterday?

AprilApple said...

btw- Thanks Ann. You suffered through it. I'm a political junkie and it wears on all of us. Even the junkies.

Hagar said...

In the thirties there were a lot of privileged people in Europe (and in this country, right into 1942), who did not want to "talk politics" because they thought it unpleasant and "politics" could/would never affect their lives anyway.

SMGalbraith said...

I haven't personally seen that evidence from last night.

Why would it be different last night?

Look, I think Biden did what he had to do: stop the Romney momentum and rally the base. Ryan didn't do what he had to do: keep the Romney surge, however, small, going.

Advantage Biden.

Moderate/independents may have not liked what he did but Obama will have to make that sale.

But we've seen for years that moderate/independent types don't like the angry type politicking. They just don't.

Biden or Gingrich or whomever.

firstHat said...

I am a woman. I left the television on with the sound muted. I watched my twitter feed and various live blogs (this one included) and every now and again looked up to see what expressions were on the faces there. That was about all my nerves could take. It worked. I got what I needed out of the experience and kept informed while keeping my sanity. I thoroughly recommend this method for others with any sensitivity left to them.

Inga said...

Garage, so true. I know many women who were quite thrilled Biden was aggressive. Personally I think he could've reigned in his anger a bit better, but again I understand why he was angry.

eddie willers said...

But I was talking about all the right wingers who's right wing wives didn't appreciate Biden.

The wives of left-wingers won't dare speak. They're living with their own Joe Biden and will just keep the peace.

They will vote, however.

Be prepared for another "How could the exit polling have been so wrong?" moment like in 2004.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LarsPorsena said...

Inga said...

Garage, so true. I know many women who were quite thrilled Biden was aggressive. Personally I think he could've reigned in his anger a bit better, but again I understand why he was angry.

10/12/12 1:24 PM
_________________________________

Personally, I'm hoping Obama will copy Biden's style for his next debate.

Alex said...

Inga - I thought Biden could have scored some points by going after Ryan on the tax reform stuff. Make Ryan state exactly what he would eliminate. But Biden die LIE that Ryan wants to get rid of the mortgage deduction.

campy said...

But Biden die LIE that Ryan wants to get rid of the mortgage deduction.

It's not a lie if Slow Joe believes it.

SMGalbraith said...

I know many women who were quite thrilled Biden was aggressive

Althouse (and I) are talking about independent/non-political types. Not the committed types who see politics in what flavor of pop tarts to eat.

Sure, liberal/leftwing woman like this.

Ideologues on both sides and both genders usually do.

gerry said...

Well, if Biden drove people off, that a GOOD THING!

Tank said...

I watched Zero minutes. Despite my interest in politics, economics, etc, I can't take more than a minute or two of most politicians talking. Biden is on the really really short list.

Plus, I knew going in that nothing they said would affect my vote.

I spent the time watching a tribute to SRV on Youtube. Time well spent.

AA - You have an aversion to politics? Maybe it's really the politicians you are averse to.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

All this talk of women turning off the debate, because of viewing a man act aggressively, is a bit silly and makes women look like pearl clutching wilting lillies.

Good thing females in the military aren't so sensitive to snarling men.

X said...

but again I understand why he was angry.

because of all the lies you lied about in the other thread?

lizz said...

I love the way you think. Just like me. Enough said. I lived in IL and now live in TX. Lots to love in TX. Married to a lawyer and just love to see what YOU have to say.

Tank said...

Pretty good Politician

AJ Lynch said...

Obama will reveal his class-warfare, angry, resentful self in the next debate. He will be very un-presidential. I guarantee it.

chickelit said...

AJ Lynch said...
Obama will reveal his class-warfare, angry, resentful self in the next debate. He will be very un-presidential. I guarantee it.

His base will praise him for it if he does.

SMGalbraith said...

All this talk of women turning off the debate, because of viewing a man act aggressively

No one said women voters. Althouse specifically mentioned those - especially women - who aren't driven by politics.

It's the moderate female voters who don't like the angry politics that we have.

From both sides.

edutcher said...

The ratings are the good news and the bad news for the Demos.

Good in the sense only a handful of people saw how unfit Joe is; bad in the sense, if he was there to gin up the base, not enough people saw it.

And I also wondered last night if the ratings tapered off while Joe was in Mike Papantonio mode. If so, more bad news.

In all, if most people only saw the taped lowlights, it adds up to a bad night for the Demos.

McTriumph said...

Sorry don't know where I read it, but one woman blogger wrote that Biden's style last night was an example of why many women hate talking to men.

The Advice Goddess, I think.

TosaGuy said...

"Good thing females in the military aren't so sensitive to snarling men."

Not alot of head-tilting women in the military.

Revenant said...

I'm not surprised that ratings are down from '08. Sarah Palin -- whatever you think of her -- was a big story. People wanted to see how she would perform.

Biden and Ryan don't provoke particularly strong responses.

Seeing Red said...

--All this talk of women turning off the debate, because of viewing a man act aggressively, is a bit silly and makes women look like pearl clutching wilting lillies. --


You're finally catching on, that's what perpetual victimhood and focusing on vaginas gets one.

Ann Althouse said...

"BTW, we love you, Professor."

Thanks!

I love you too.

Baron Zemo said...

My Dear Lady!!


Nobody can love you as much as you love yourself!!!!!!!


Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!!

Inga said...

Baron Zemo "loves" himself daily, because no one else will.

Baron Zemo said...

Oh Inga you are so silly.

Quick make up another lie that Ryan told last night.

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!!

Shouting Thomas said...

Inga, stop with the idiot sex innuendo.

When somebody responds in kind, you start whining about "sexual harassment."

edutcher said...

Shout, don't say that or he/she/it will start talking about his/her/its ass again.

Surfed said...

My sentiments exactly Ms. Althouse. I'm with you babes...

Dante said...

Frankly, I don't care about the yelling. Yes, it's annoying, but we owe it to our children to make good decisions. Now, perhaps that's trying to be reasonable when people of all colors make voting decisions based on obama phones, but at least I'll have done my little part.

I have to admit, I liked Biden's point that we need to get the Afghans to step up, and it puts pressure on them to do so. I hadn't thought about that, and it's a good point. There is not a lot of goodness that can come from Afghanistan, except minerals (Russia figured that out). It's merely preventing something bad to happen.

Why Afghanistan should care is another question. Perhaps we can bribe them with iPhones.

Inga said...

Biden was absolutely correct that the troops that got drawn down recently, are being replaced with Afghan Army and it's about time they took responsibility for themselves and their country and their terrorists.

The Crack Emcee said...

am one of the many people — sensible people, many of them women! — who naturally withdraw from the political debate. It's just not worth it. Life is short, and much of it is beautiful and full of love. I want to go somewhere else.

Being the kind of person I am, I'm not sure how denial and incoherence manifests themselves in the brain - especially not a supposedly-top-flight professor's - but it must be nice, I guess. I picture a funhouse mirror, where everything's warped into a grin, and there's no point in making sense of reality because there is none:

It's all about the reflection you see, rather than what's there, which you'd rather retreat from than really gaze at and understand.

The tragedy is the insistence that vision is real, to rub your (mis)fortune in the faces of those who don't share it, as if the starving child just doesn't believe enough so it's their fault that's how it is.

It's like "The Secret" is permanently embedded in your mind, which - when it comes to Boomers - I wouldn't be surprised we discover in the future.

Clearly, the demoralization process in this country is almost complete, where the Maharishi-minded "Be happy" and "Be Humble" crowd ruthlessly knocked the foundations of society from beneath us - leaving most they indoctrinated completely unequipped to cope - and did so without a care for what they've left in their wake leaving the stage.

Rubbing our noses in it has to be the final act. Reminding us of how much you enjoy it. Of what you can buy - of how you can (and will) get away.

"Beauty" and "love" are words that have been parsed and twisted beyond recognition, becoming "sex" and "reproductive rights" and "divorce," and a whole host of other feminist definitions, as poor substitutes for anyone (else) looking for them.

"Sensible people, many of them women!" are turned off by watching two men - one born before the Baby Boom and one after - grappling with the real-life issues the rest have to deal with after we've been driven bankrupt? Gee, why am I not surprised?

Maybe, in the next debate, we'll have to include "spa treatments" as a topic, just to keep it interesting,...

Dante said...

Yes. You can't engage. What's the point? You'll have to turn into what you hate?

I'm tired of this line of reasoning. "Oh, men are combative, they are warmongers, blah blah blah." Women select men. If it weren't for the great compromise, men would be running down every chick they can get in bed.

You women made us men what we are. Why complain so much about what you want?

Zach said...

I just watched it on the internet a couple of hours ago (the live broadcast was crazy early in the morning here). All I remember is the feeling of hostility from Biden and the big laugh Ryan got with the "doesn't come out right" line. I don't even think it was that funny a line -- it was more that it cut the tension.

It's hard to imagine that Biden meant to come across as quite that much of a jerk. For much of this administration, I've thought of him as a buffoonish but possibly canny older guy.

Do undecided voters really want to see someone that confrontational and scornful? It's hard to see how anyone could like the performance unless they really wanted to see Ryan get his comeuppance.

Seeing Red said...

--Inga, stop with the idiot sex innuendo.--


They can't help themselves.

chickelit said...

Inga said...
Biden was absolutely correct that the troops that got drawn down recently, are being replaced with Afghan Army and it's about time they took responsibility for themselves and their country and their terrorists.

Yes, but what if they don't? What if they can't control the Taliban or al-Q? Who will? Who will keep an eye on that? Someone who assures us that al-Q is waning? Someone who sleeps while ambassadors die to get his beauty rest for "The View"?

Mamie said...

For those who think we should simply hightail it out of Afghanistan:

We are there to keep that country from once again becoming a safe haven for terrorists, namely Al Qaeda, to use as a base from which to plan and launch attacks, as it was before 9/11.

Why do you not consider this a worthwhile goal?

Inga said...

It's an insult to Zemo for insulting our Althouse. No one puts Althouse in the corner!

Inga said...

What if Iraq falls apart, should we have another surge there,? How about half a dozen countries that harbor al Qaeda? Should we invade those countries?

chickelit said...

Mamie and I are of the same feather.

Inga said...

If you think it's such a worthwhile goal to keep our troops there ad infinitum, then be prepared for a draft and a war tax.

Shouting Thomas said...

Crack, Althouse is not a New Ager.

You are the first person to ever mistake me for a New Ager.

Your act has been old for a while. This New Age obsession is your psychological problem. You are projecting it onto everything and everybody.

For Christ's sake, either let it go or limit your remarks to "Ditto!"

cold pizza said...

Forget Afghanistan, bring our troops home from Germany, Japan, Okinawa, and England. WWII has been over for, what, like 70 years or something. I'm pretty sure the Nazi's aren't about to stage a comeback in Frankfurt anytime soon.

While we're at it, end the Hawaiian Occupation! Free Tibet! (buy one Tibet, get one free!)

We need to fortify our borders against those maple-syrup smuggling, cheese hording Canucks! Literally. -CP

Shouting Thomas said...

The enemy is bringing the war to us, Inga. I don't think they have any plans to quit.

There will be no draft. Too politically dangerous.

chickelit said...

Inga said...
If you think it's such a worthwhile goal to keep our troops there ad infinitum, then be prepared for a draft and a war tax.

Pull out and let them fester again is your alternative?

Mamie said...

Inga,

Each case would, of course, have to be handled differently, depending largely on whether the government in power actually supported Al Qaeda -- again, the way the Taliban government did before (and after) 9/11.

The danger of the Taliban once more being in control of the country is what we are trying to prevent.

Inga said...

Agree with you on bringing the troops home from Europe and Japan/ Okinawa. Think of all the money it would save.

And damn those Canucks, let's invade.

chickelit said...

Inga said...
If you think it's such a worthwhile goal to keep our troops there ad infinitum, then be prepared for a draft and a war tax.

Make love to their chosen idols was your alternative the other day...

Inga said...

Maime, no matter HOW LONG we stay there, the minute we leave the Taliban will be in central power within months.

Inga said...

Chickelit, would you care to elaborate? I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Seeing Red said...

There's no running & hiding, the choice is where to fight it.

harrogate said...

Ann, c'mon. You write:

"Ryan tells some stories about Romney's charity toward the unfortunate, which includes someone that was in a car accident, and Biden takes the opportunity to remind us that his own wife died in a car crash, which is sad, but oddly misplaced"

Think back to the subject that prompted this exchange and then trying your mightiest to be honest, see who was really guilty of doing the displacing. The subject was NOT charity. The subject was the economy and Biden who had gone first, had answered the question directly, and a big part of his answer--shocker--involved the Bailout of the Auto industry.

When it was Ryan's turn he started talking about Mitt helping people who had been in a car wreck. it was Ryan's move all night. Deflect, distract, lie.

Texan99 said...

I stayed tuned to the end, but I have to admit I had quit paying attention about half-way through and was surfing instead, as soon as they all three started yelling at once.

"Biden takes the opportunity to remind us that his own wife died in a car crash, which is sad, but oddly misplaced." -- that struck me as weird, too. Ryan talked about Romney's charity to a family that had lost members in a wreck, and Biden's response is, "Well, I've lost family members, too"? As if he thought the point was that Romney should have come and comforted him instead. "Well, I don't know, I thought we were talking about car wrecks, so I threw in my standard poor-Joe story, to show I have a deep, passionate heart. And now back to laughing inappropriately."

chickelit said...

Inga said...
Chickelit, would you care to elaborate? I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Allie was suggesting that we curtail our free speech in order to placate mobs overseas. I think this was/is the Administration's position as well. IOW, Lie back and think of Mohamed. Allow no graven images, cartoons, etc.

JL said...

You know, I have an aversion to politics.

Heh. I have a strong aversion to politicians speaking. Even if I agree with what they are saying. Probably because I have an ingrained bias that all politicians are full of shit.

I have an even stronger aversion to bullshit. I didn't watch the debate but my husband did. I walked in and sat down near the end, since it was almost over, just as the moderator asked, "What can we expect from you as a man?" or some such inanity. I ran screaming from the room.

That sort of thing is too "tinny" for me. ( A Monty Python reference, for those who don't know.)

The Crack Emcee said...

Shouting Thomas,

Crack, Althouse is not a New Ager.

Coming from you, my self-proclaimed "spiritual" brother, that statement carries a lot of weight.

Maybe you two can discuss it at Whole Foods one day,...

chickelit said...

@harrogate:

Ryan's narrative of Romney's compassion did't fit with the Scrooge McDuck caricature, huh?

Jessica said...

I am a woman who stopped watching after the first 15 minutes. I was looking forward to watching (and I'll even confess to being a moderate political junkie) but I just couldn't take the stress. (Seriously - stress!) Biden's open contempt and mockery -- his ugly, vicious laughter -- were just too painful to watch.

Baron Zemo said...

I don't think it was fair that Ryan didn't highlight Clueless Joe's charity...what is it again...about $300 a year?

JL said...

So apparently the only thing Biden refrained from doing last night was putting his fingers in his ears and going, "La la la la... I caaan't heeeear yoooou!"

Too funny. The SNL of the past would have a field day with this. Will they touch it?

Inga said...

Placate no one, but be prepared for backlash from Isamists, for ANYTHING. Have Marines, have weapons, have SECURITY. Have RPGs, lots of them. Use with impunity when attacked.

Until we supply our citizens in dangerous Islamic countries with deadly weapons and Marines with the wherewithal to use them, have the decency to watch your mouth.

Shouting Thomas said...

Spirituality has been a concept discussed within the Catholic Church since I was an altar boy, Crack.

Thar counts as another "Ditto!"

Get off the fucking brain dead dreck.

Seeing Red said...

Your side won't allow that, Inga.

Baron Zemo said...

Oh and don't mind Inga.

She just wants to shut down the first amendment and let the barbarian religous fanatics tell us how to live our lives. She is all about censorship and surrender.



Seeing Red said...

Well, I'll modify that as long as a Republican is CIC.

The progs have been pretty quiet the past 4 years.

Inga said...

Stress, anxiety, good lord, from a political debate? Are women turning into wimps, ladies, have a bit of courage!

As I said earlier thank goodnes females in the military have less sensitivity to snarling men.

Inga said...

We shall see, Seeing Red. I doubt any administration wants a repeat of this incident.

cold pizza said...

Laughing Biden as Blutarsky! -CP

Baron Zemo said...

"Watch your mouth."

Really?

Unbelievable.

The founding fathers must be spinning in their graves.

Did Sam Adams watch his mouth? Patrick Henry? Tom Paine? Crispus Attucks?

I mean old Crispus was always protesting that new age Deist shit and trying to get his new music to get played by that guy with fife and drum! And they shot him down for it!

Darcy said...

"Placate no one, but have the decency to watch your mouth!"

Well, now. That's clear as mud.





chickelit said...

Baron wrote: I mean old Crispus was always protesting that new age Deist shit and trying to get his new music to get played by that guy with fife and drum! And they shot him down for it!

Baron, I think you mean Crisper Buttocks, of Drum and Beagle Corp fame.



Shouting Thomas said...

A week after we knew that the video was just used as a cover up, Inga the Idiot clings to a lie even the Obama admin has given up on.

chickelit said...

Placate no one, but have the decency to watch your mouth!

Could you elaborate, Inga? Are you talking about dental placque?

Inga said...

Again, it's being totally ignored that there were demonstrations in over 15 countries for WEEKS after the release of this video.

What of that, not important at all, huh? Those demonstrations could've gotten ugly and violent pretty quickly, it's simply lucky they didn't.

Darcy said...

Yes, and our President and Secretary of State got on their knees and groveled to the mob. Yay!

All healed with groveling and love. Coexisting, and all. Just make sure you coexist the way they tell you to.

Inga said...

So why are conservative women such little pansies? What happened to the Sarah Palin model of pit bull with lipstick on? How sad to see women so hyper sensitive to ugly snarling toxic men, I deal with them daily here on this blog.

Shouting Thomas said...

You just won't be happy until you've completely disgraced yourself agaIn, Idiot Inga.

Inga said...

Shouting Thomas, you disgrace yourself daily, ask Crack.

I Callahan said...

Women tuned out because they wanted to watch the O's beat the Yankees. Or was that just me?

You're my kind of woman.

Shouting Thomas said...

Althouse isn't backing down from anything, Inga.

Try to imagine the fierce hatred she faces for allowing heresy to exist on this site. She's in the belly of the liberal beast in academia.

Yet, she prevails in publishing this site.

Shouting Thomas said...

Crack is an authority I should consult?

Matthew Sablan said...

Maybe I'm not cynical enough, I thought that Biden shared the story about his wife because, well, he was reminded of a terrible personal tragedy. It was probably the most real moment from anyone in either of the debates.

I may also just be a sap.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Althouse, Ryan's story about the accident was a follow-up to the statement he made claiming that "Romney is a car guy," and I thought a bizarre example of the claim, but Biden helped him out when he said, I do not doubt Romney's charity."

-- Wrong, it was a follow up to the accusation that Romney doesn't care about other human beings. The "car guy" line was about Detroit.

stan said...

Michael Medved said that several women told him that Biden reminded them of their abusive ex-husbands.

John Lynch said...

1. I don't believe Althouse is nearly as representative of the voting public as she thinks. I don't come to this blog to read what everyone else thinks. Althouse is fairly unique, which works both ways. The whole "what I think is important because I'm a moderate/undecided voter/woman/Wisconsin etc." theme is not persuasive at all. Althouse matters because she's Althouse, not because she's a bellwether.

2. If Althouse doesn't like politics, then why has she been posting about politics every day for eight years?

As I like to say, look at what people do to see what they are really about.

X said...

watch your mouth

you first since radical islam is not that keen on women running their mouths period.

Inga said...

I'm directing my comments at conservative women who commented here, not only Althouse, who is a moderate. I am quite aware of the insults you conservatives fling Althouse's way when she gets too liberal for your tastes.

cold pizza said...

...watch the O's beat the Yankees...

That's some high-falootin sexual innuendo right there, gosh dang it! Literally. -CP

The Crack Emcee said...

Shouting Thomas,

Get off the fucking brain dead dreck.

I have - that's why you're facing my criticism.

You ARE "the fucking brain dead dreck"....

Baron Zemo said...

"Watch your mouth"

Mormon..........Boo!!!!!!!!!!!

SteveR said...

If Althouse doesn't like politics, then why has she been posting about politics every day for eight years?

If you've been reading for eight years, you should know the answer.

cubanbob said...

Inga said...
Agree with you on bringing the troops home from Europe and Japan/ Okinawa. Think of all the money it would save.




Thats chump change compared to the never ending War On Poverty. Lets bug out of that one tomorrow. Let Bam cover that freight with his own stash.

The Crack Emcee said...

Shouting Thomas,

Crack is an authority I should consult?

Yeah, because I'm that big black dick (you, alone, noticed) all the white girls are going for, leaving a "big man" like you with desperate Philippinos who admire you got 50 cents in your pocket. I betcha you're absolutely dreamy over there.

Give it a break, ST:

You've proven yourself to be nothing more than a disgusting pig, playing in Woodstock cover bands, with little talent and a LOT of unearned grievances.

Go cry to Myrna, and see if she can "spiritually" give you some tips on how to dig yourself out of this one:

From what I hear, she knew everything,...

Darcy said...

My God, that was an awful thing to write, Crack. The man lost his beloved wife!

What is wrong with you?

Baron Zemo said...

That's some low shit Crack.

Even for you.

edutcher said...

Mamie said...

For those who think we should simply hightail it out of Afghanistan:

We are there to keep that country from once again becoming a safe haven for terrorists, namely Al Qaeda, to use as a base from which to plan and launch attacks, as it was before 9/11.

Why do you not consider this a worthwhile goal?


Oop is a moby. No daughter in A-stan, no nurse, none of it.

It's the same dodge the Lefties have had since 'Nam - bring the troops home, cancel the space program, spend all the money on the Welfare State.

chickelit said...

@darcy: I think Crack wrote that to impress Inga somehow. I wonder if it worked.

chickelit said...

Here, let me memorialize it before it disappears:

Crack wrote:
Give it a break, ST:

You've proven yourself to be nothing more than a disgusting pig, playing in Woodstock cover bands, with little talent and a LOT of unearned grievances.

Go cry to Myrna, and see if she can "spiritually" give you some tips on how to dig yourself out of this one:

From what I hear, she knew everything,...


cold pizza said...

cubanbob said:
Thats chump change compared to the never ending War On Poverty.

Ooh, ooh, ooh, Mistah Cartah! War on Drugs! (i.e. "This is your war. This is your war on drugs..."). Not literally. -CP

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Crack hates me, I'm sure he isn't trying to impress me, LOL.

As for Ed, are you back to THAT again, pretty damn despicable, but hey that's you.

Saint Croix said...

Porn star calls Biden obnoxious. Only in America, baby!

Inga said...

And Shouting Thomas, was race baiting Crack. Saint Croix, commented on it and said how disgusting it was.

If some commenters here would have an ounce of the honesty and decency St. Croix displays, this comments section would be a much better place.

Inga said...

Hey St. Croix, you turned up right as I was invoking your name!

Saint Croix said...

Lindsay Lohan says it's time to be responsible. Vote Romney!

And don't make me break out Jenna Jameson. Okay, I will.

creeley23 said...

So what's the word on the debate this morning?

I despised Biden's performance, but suspect it worked for the Obama campaign to shore up the base and stanch the bleeding from the disastrous Obama debate.

OTOH, today I'm reading that Biden may have stepped in it big time by denying that the Obama administration knew the seriousness of Amb. Stevens situation.

What say others?

I'm tired to see yet another topic spiraling down the Inga/Crack drain.

Saint Croix said...

awww, that's sweet!

I can be a mean bastard, though. Just not to the ladies.

The Crack Emcee said...

Baron Zemo,

"Watch your mouth"

Mormon..........Boo!!!!!!!!!!!


Just to show you Mitt Romney isn't the only one who does good deeds - and mine aren't limited to (as Paul Ryan said last night) people in my church - I gave an LDS a ride home last night. And bought him a meal.

He was one of the most socially awkward people I've ever met - talked a mile a minute (making me wonder if he'd ever shut up) while telling me his pathetic life story. His major source of pride was the fact he tells other LDS members what to do - which they have to - even though he's such a train wreck of a human being nobody else would in a million years.

And I should add that I really did give the guy a ride just to be nice - I didn't know he was LDS:

He was just a guy in tough spot, as far as I knew, and I saw nobody else was going to help him.

No Mormon "research," no nothing.

One other thing, just talking:

I only caught about 5 minutes of the debate's opening salvos on the radio, live. Later, I saw an early version of USA Today and read about 5 or 6 stories on it, and didn't learn a damned thing more than what I heard in that 5 minute period.

USA Today is one lousy newspaper,....

harrogate said...

chickelit,

No, you misunderstand. This too is a shocker. I know full well WHY Ryan wanted to say look, look at all this charity Romney has done.

But he said that in response to a question about the economy. No wait. Actually he went into the Romney-is-so wonderful mode while ostensibly responding to Biden's comment about the economy--a comment that featured the bailout of GM.

And so. Ryan says, he says "Look, Romney's a car guy. Now let me tell you a story about these people he gave some money too."

And then Ann is all like, 'the subject is Romney's compassion! why isn't Biden talking about the subject?'

Cognitive dissonance. Something apparently you and she have to share, chickelit. Just remember buddy, just because you agree with the majority on these boards doesn't change the fact that most of your comments lately fit the very definition of "trolling," in the digital age.

But hey, you also seem to like being a troll. And I want you to be happy. So keep trolling.

Shanti. Shanti. Shanti.

mccullough said...

Crack,

Do they ever try and convert you out in Utah or do they know enough to stay away?

harrogate said...

As a rider to the tale, the truth is that one of Ann's greatest strengths on this blog is her ability to render devastating rhetorical analysis. But at the same time, multiple problems attend that. Two that are featured on this thread are:

1)She knew she was going to shred on Biden after the debate regardless of what happened and so you get the complaint about about Biden changing the "subject" from Romney's charitable work. Althouse, alas, often gets caught trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

and

2)She is so goddamned happy with herself, rivaling her hero, Rush Limbaugh, for least ability to look inward.

So those problems dominate the post we are responding to here. The comments themselves, are thereby launched into silly season. Except my comments of course. They are spot on. Because I never make mistakes and my rhetorical analyses are cruelly neutral, and I'm a brilliant independent voter, you see.

chickelit said...

@harrogate responds: But he said that in response to a question about the economy. No wait. Actually he went into the Romney-is-so wonderful mode while ostensibly responding to Biden's comment about the economy--a comment that featured the bailout of GM.

Ryan talked about Romney's generousity in response to Biden's bringing up the 47% in response to to the moderator asking them both how long it would take to bring down unemployment. Neither candidate answered-Biden actually said "I don't know" before baiting Ryan with the 47%. Ryan got the biggest laugh of the night when he remined Biden that things don't always come out the way things seem.

I will ignore (but duly note) your other remarks for now.

edutcher said...

And a little more salt for all those Lefty wounds.

California thought Joe won, according to SurveyUSA, but...

And as Rosie O'Donnell will tell you, this is a very big but...

Of those whose minds were changed last night, half again more were won over to the Romster than Joe and Zero.

And that's CA.

Imagine what happened in states more firmly connected to reality.

The Crack Emcee said...

Darcy,

My God, that was an awful thing to write, Crack. The man lost his beloved wife!

What is wrong with you?


Baron Zemo,

That's some low shit Crack.

Even for you.


After spouting a falsehood, the man told me was now a "whore," willing to do such things to advance his agenda. I told him, then, I was no longer regarding him as someone with an interest in truth - and that goes for his stories about Myrna. If he wants to trash the image he's painted for me in that regard, then - hey - let's really trash it, huh?

You seem to forget, ST's been on his racial bandwagon for a little while now - and I, for one, am sick of it. Especially because it's coming from him. Maybe it doesn't bother you - I don't know, or know why not - but, as I told him, if he wants to act like a "whore" I'll treat him like one.

And this new "everything is NewAge to you" attack is just asking for it:

He knows what he's doing - in the last few days, along with the racial nonsense, he's called me "weak," suggested my father was incompetent, and now this.

Fuck him. My troubles with my wife, and NewAge, have been a source of amusement for many here - an easy shot to take, even with the murders, to call me crazy - how many here have stood up against that?

No, the understanding is I'm going to have to be a big boy, learn to exist in an entire society that promotes it, and merely suck it up as they deny that's what's happening - green, feminist, and with a Mormon president, all.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll never be capable of going as low as you guys have gone, especially under the circumstances I've endured.

How can I?

Just as easily as you guys are going to mark your ballots on November 6th.

The mother and father god, from the planet Kolob, rule all.

BTW - be sure to tell your kids how dedicated you are to education after you vote, because I'm sure - after you do so - the question's going to eventually come up,...

The Crack Emcee said...

mccullough,

Crack,

Do they ever try and convert you out in Utah or do they know enough to stay away?


Only when I first got here, but I made it pretty clear I wanted my Book Of Mormon and nothing more.

I don't advertise my views, but most can tell by how I carry myself (body language) they can't reach me. The only LDS who come off as "cool," or street smart, are Jack Mormons (people who are born into it, don't believe, but don't leave for family reasons) and ex-Mormons - the rest are awkward Romney types, with that underlying layer of repressed anger, and they don't want shit to do with me. My very existence is an affront to them, raises their condescension level, so - since they're usually employers here - they mostly stick to being happy with telling me what to do. Mitt's hoping for that, now, too - BIG TIME.

BTW - did anyone notice how Paul Ryan was looking at Joe Biden, sometimes, last night?

He's got Mitt's "sad eyes" look of condescension down pat,....

Baron Zemo said...

Crack you never cease to please.

Just when I think you can't sink any lower.....you drop down a few more floors.

Nice made up story about the poor Mormon guy. Very believable.

Shouldn't you be in some dive playing the bongo's and trying to turn out some college chicks or something?

Baron Zemo said...

I mean you are the first break through hip hop artist who uses the bongo's and cystals to make the boom boom.

Shouting Thomas said...

God, Crack, I keep telling you that I'm not a weakling.

That shit doesn't work on me.

Knock yourself out !

Champagne Liberal said...

"An aversion to politics" - if you'd like us to take you seriously you might want to start being a little more candid with us. I noticed on the "silicon Investor" board you have posted nearly 6000 times. Not to surprising as you appear to enjoy writing. Perhaps the surprising piece, based on your latest blog entry, would be that over 4000 of those posts are in the political thread. Without exception you are blasting the Obama administration (I'd be happy to post some quotes if you like) so your claim to be our empathetic bye-stander could use a little candor to. http://www.siliconinvestor.com/profile.aspx?userid=3993795

Amartel said...

"All this talk of women turning off the debate, because of viewing a man act aggressively, is a bit silly and makes women look like pearl clutching wilting lillies."

This from the dingbat who clutches her pearls when people respond to her sexist/rude comments with sexist/rude comments. Waaah, bring back the double standard when it works for meeeeeeeee.

Also, Dingbat, consider the probability that women turned it off because Biden was acting annoyingly not because he was acting "aggressively." What an emotional parasite. I'm talking about Biden now. He couldn't let Ryan tell the Mitt charity re: car crash victim story without busting out his own car crash victim story. Oh yeah?? Well, my wife DIED in a car crash. So there, I win. Dead wife. Ha! Of course, the on-topic response would be: Oh yeah?? Well, I gave $300 to charity! So there, I erm lose.

The Kennedy reference was pretty random, too. Biden heard the word "Kennedy" and it was like a lightbulb went on over his head. Like he was waiting for the Lloyd Bentsen opportunity, waiting to say "so now you're Jack Kennedy" but that's not what Ryan was saying at all. Ryan laughed it off.

William said...

About this and that: Contra ST, I don't think I have ever been screwed out of anything by affirmative action. There are definitely some undeserving black people who have played it to their advantage, but there are a thousand other paths a white person can find to his destination.....Contra Crack: he has such unrelenting certainty about the righteousness of his beliefs that only a potential cult member would ever pick him for a spouse. He's got this weird variance on the the Cassandra syndrome. He can predict the damage cult beliefs due to a person's psyche, but only a potential cult member can believe him.

William said...

After the high drama and lurid melodrama of the last election, this one is a bit of a let down. I don't think Obama's supporters are expecting much in the way of hope and change this time. He hasn't been a catastrophe, but he's at the very least a diappointment and definitely unsuccessful.... Myself, I'm a Romney supporter but, if he wins, I don't anticipate anything more than a modest impovement over Obama.

Baron Zemo said...

Crack is in a cult of one.

If you don't believe me he has a link he can prove it to you!

SukieTawdry said...

Big Bird is a much softer target than the Dowager Countess. Mitt doesn't want to mess with her.

I love the Dowager. Maggie Smith is perfection.

I bailed in relatively short order. That baboon they had on stage aping and grinning moronically was really a distraction. Why did they ever allow it?

Went back to the ballgame which, at is turns out, was equally tedious.

kentuckyliz said...

One. Heartbeat. Away.

Joe Schmoe said...

So apparently the only thing Biden refrained from doing last night was putting his fingers in his ears and going, "La la la la... I caaan't heeeear yoooou!"

He also didn't stand up quickly with his finger sticking out through his pants zipper. I had an uncle who used to do that at family gatherings to shock the ladies and get a laugh. Strikes me as something that SCHMOTUS might pull in front of a crowd.

harrogate said...

This is saying a lot, but It's the strongest proof I have seen yet that the commenters on this board are detached from reality. The suggestion that Ryan was saying anything other than soundbites is simply absurd on its face. When pressed to explain/defend the soundbites, he repeated the soundbites. That's what happened.

Biden went into detail about things and he generally exposed Romney and Ryan both to be the shameless liars that they are. And yet the same song and dance continues here.

harrogate said...

Also, a great quote being bandied all over the internet today:

“I’ve got to tell you, having done as many as I’ve done, usually the side that’s perceived as having lost the debate is the one that complains about the moderator.” Frank Fahrenkopf.

Hahahahahaha.

Saint Croix said...

Bad girls are votin' Romney. I'm pretty sure that's a sex thing. Now I'm trying to clean up my act. "Oh gosh." It's like a dog whistle for wild women. "Gee whiz."

This is still awesome.

The Crack Emcee said...

William,

Contra Crack: he has such unrelenting certainty about the righteousness of his beliefs that only a potential cult member would ever pick him for a spouse. He's got this weird variance on the the Cassandra syndrome. He can predict the damage cult beliefs due to a person's psyche, but only a potential cult member can believe him.

Now, see, I can understand that, because I was once ignorant to cultism, too. Before my experience, it was only something that happened to other people, or was something in movies, like Rosemary's Baby - and I made absolutely no connection to it and the growth of the NewAge movement - just like the rest of you. So your views, while silly to me now, are perfectly understandable.

What ISN'T understandable to me - except in the context of Naziism - is the fact there is overwhelming evidence of people being killed, swindled, and driven mad by it right under your noses and, still, you do nothing.

Scientology runs concentration camps and kills people? Oh well, what's on TV? Mitt and his wife spread misinformation and quackery? How soon can I vote for some of that? And so on - all the while calling anyone "certain" of this phenomena things like "crazy," or a potential cult leader themselves.

What do I mean, Hitler's not Der Fuhrer, right? All the other Germans think so - you're just jealous! Meanwhile:

Numerous businesses are turning to a mushrooming crop of training and consultation firms offering workshops, seminars, and courses which claim to transform employees into highly motivated and efficient visionaries and producers. Among the major corporations which have enlisted these firms are AT&T, GM, Ford, IBM, Calvin Klein, Westinghouse, Dupont, Scott Paper, Campbell Soup, Lockheed, RCA, Procter and Gamble, All State Insurance, NEC, Boeing Aerospace, General Foods, GE, and McDonald's-in short, approximately 20% of the Fortune 500 corporations, plus innumerable smaller companies.

And it is not only business, but also government that is jumping on the creativity training band-wagon. The IRS, CIA, the Army, Navy, and Air Force have all engaged these training companies. Many of the trainers, however, use techniques and promote philosophies at variance with the moral and religious convictions of employees who are urged, and sometimes required, to attend the workshops.
Most often, these techniques and philosophies arise from the broad and variegated matrix of the so- called New Age Movement (NAM). And this fact has caused a great deal of controversy in and around the workplace, reported in numerous books and articles. The core of the controversy is highlighted by Arthur Johnson's statement that "There's a fine line between corporate culture and corporate cults."


Damn, that's a LOT of cult influence, and anyone aware of this - and who doesn't go along - is a Jew.

Shalom,...

JAL said...

After watching the disrespectful, uncivil behavior of VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (for cryin' out loud!!!) I went downstairs to comb my cactus.

Inga said...

St. Croix, that was awesome! Old people are stinky, spike their drinks! Hahahaha, oh man I love those.

BrianE said...

It was mostly painful to watch, and I turned turned the sound off shortly before the end.

I do wish they'd shown the moderator as Biden spent an awfully long tie wagging is finger, scolding her. I'd have been interested in her response.

Biden (I would normally use his title out of respect) set a new low in debate standards.

I'm sure there are many high school and college debaters looking forward to trying this new strategy.

Broomhandle said...

Left, right, or center, the dominant takeaway from the debate was Biden's obnoxious behavior. I heard two very apolitical people at work use the term "jackass". I'm baffled how this helps the 'Crats.

Upthe Whazoo said...

Nice to be over the fray Althouse ...
Other people have to do the dirty work ...
Politics will find you in the end ... it'll be grisly ...
IDIOT!

... An idiot in Athenian democracy was someone who was characterized by self-centeredness and concerned almost exclusively with private—as opposed to public—affairs.[6] Idiocy was the natural state of ignorance into which all persons were born and its opposite, citizenship, was effected through formalized education.[6] In Athenian democracy, idiots were born and citizens were made through education (although citizenship was also largely hereditary). "Idiot" originally referred to "layman, person lacking professional skill", "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning". Declining to take part in public life, such as democratic government of the polis (city state), was considered dishonorable.

Mutaman said...

"The old man finally tuckered himself out."

Ann, isn't Biden the same age
as you? Do you think of yourself as "the old woman"?

AReasonableMan said...

All the Republican trolls whining about the reality based community's view that Mitt and Zit are irresponsible liars should read this.

Inga said...

Ah, Reasonable, that's one one of the lies I said Ryan spewed in the debate, in a different thread earlier today. Thanks for that link.

Seeing Red said...

umors:

“Recent documents unearth in Benghazi tell a story of an even greater sin committed by the Obama administration than incompetence. These newly discovered documents suggest that Ambassador Stevens was in Benghazi on a mission to track and confiscate weapons that the administration had put in the hands of Al Queda when they thought they were arming the Libyan rebels

Seeing Red said...

--The Syrians are 100% committed to deniable operations as their modus operandi. Biological weapons, particularly those which might occur naturally, are the ultimate in deniability, for example, their cryptosporidium program for force reduction. The Wednesday Report noted a few years ago that in terms of the Syrian anthrax program, Syria has extensive expertise in the industrial cultivation of germs and viruses for the civilian production of anthrax (and smallpox) vaccines. It also noted that Russian experts, contracted by Syria, are apparently helping them to cultivate a highly virulent anthrax germ for installation in missile warheads. Their pharmaceutical infrastructure is fully integrated with their defense structure. Syrians cannot reach parity with US and Israeli conventional weapons. However, they view their bio-chemical arsenal as part of a normal weapons program. This is a huge shift in thinking by the Syrian military. It means they condone the use of biological pathogens as ‘offensive’ weapons. NATO and the United States should be very concerned about that re-designation....

Sammy said...

Romney dominated Obama without interupting him or being rude, disrespectful, or laughing, screaming, smirking in Obama's face, Biden probabely farted a couple times, to show what a primate he is...Biden's desperate attempts to dominate a smarter, better looking, younger man (Ryan has more hair on his peak , then Biden has on his whole head , even with the decade all hair plugs) by acting like a loud, angery clown

Democrats thought this was 2004 , Cheney demolishing Edwards.....I guess instead going for the steely determination and intelligence ...democrats decided a insecure , loud , overbearing clown as more Biden skills set against a younger opponent.p

Michael K said...

" AReasonableMan said...
All the Republican trolls whining about the reality based community's view that Mitt and Zit are irresponsible liars should read this."

Lefties, including lefty trolls, have never accepted dynamic scoring in analyzing tax policy. THis happened when Reagan tried to pass the Kemp-Roth tax cut in 1981. Even Bob Dole, "root canal Republican," if there ever was one, managed to delay the tax cut until 1982. The result was the loss of the Republican majority in the Senate in the 1982 elections. Naturally, people who planned to invest or take income when they had a choice, waited until 1982 and the lower tax rates, to realize income.

Hillary Clinton was smart enough to take her Rose Law Firm bonus before Bill's tax increase took effect in 1993. People who actually have money know about dynamic effect of tax policy. If they are Democrats, they don't admit it.

Real lefties, who are mostly living from paycheck to paycheck, don't understand this and the ruling class doesn't tell them.

The billionaire lefties have someone managing their money who knows very well what tax policy means.

el polacko said...

for the love of pete, folks...please do not engage commenters like 'inga' and 'crack'. look at how this thread, like so many others when they weren't simply ignored, has devolved into sniping and nonsense.
just scroll past their tiresome bleats...it's much healthier for all of us.

Rusty said...

Inga said...
What if Iraq falls apart, should we have another surge there,? How about half a dozen countries that harbor al Qaeda? Should we invade those countries?



What if. What if. What if.
The price of peace is often violent.
Strength keeps the bullies in line. Weakness invites confrontation.
We're seeing this now in the middle east.
Our weakness on the world stage invited muslim fundamentalists to act.
It invited China to dispute Japans claim on some islands.
Fortunately or unfortunately we are THE superpower and the weak will always look to us for help.Sadly we have a history of not living up to our creed.

Robert Zaleski said...

Steelers were on, so I bet that was part of the ratings. I knew I could watch the next day on Youtube, so I watched the game with my wife.

What I found the most annoying was the moderator heckling Ryan. Biden's job was kinda to heckling him, but her, and I don't think she said anything to Biden.

Ann Althouse said...

"I noticed on the "silicon Investor" board you have posted nearly 6000 times."

This blog has over 30,000 posts. If you're going to try to analyze me, get the easily verifiable facts right for starters. Otherwise, it's lame.