August 30, 2012

"And when Ryan riffed on the handful of jobs he briefly held, his Ayn Randian roots were clear."

Writes Joan Walsh at Salon. Here's what Paul Ryan said that Walsh thinks is "straight out of Rand, and ’50s anti-Communist paranoia":
“When I was waiting tables, washing dishes, or mowing lawns for money, I never thought of myself as stuck in some station in life... I was on my own path, my own journey, an American journey where I could think for myself, decide for myself, define happiness for myself. That’s what we do in this country. That’s the American Dream. That’s freedom, and I’ll take it any day over the supervision and sanctimony of the central planners.”
If you believe the individual can think and decide for himself and pursue happiness as he defines it... you're delusional — in Walsh's view. You see what she's saying? She's saying you didn't build that — the very phrase Obama is straining to disown. You didn't build that, you can't build that, and you're psychotic if you imagine that you can. She's deeply into the collectivism the Democrats don't want to openly embrace.

But she doesn't think she's openly embracing it. She thinks Ryan is paranoid to imply that the Democrats favor "the supervision and sanctimony of the central planners." Pressed, she might — I assume — assert that it's fine for individuals to try to come up with their own ideas about what they want to do with their lives and to set out to achieve their goals, but that it's inaccurate to portray this enterprise as solitary and in defiance of the larger efforts of government and society (which they depend on no matter what they do).

But that's not what Walsh says. She's stirring up partisan discord and not inclined to concede that our differences, in the United States, are only a matter of leaning toward individualism or collectivism as we mostly keep to the middle of the road.

230 comments:

1 – 200 of 230   Newer›   Newest»
Charlie said...

I think Joe Walsh might have written a better column.

rehajm said...

Paul Ryan's brazen lies

She's basing 'brazen lies' on what she thinks she heard Ryan say, but not what he actually said. Someone needs to explain to her the definition of the word lie.

EDH said...

You can see the coordinated thematic media response to Ryan's speech is that he was dishonest.

Barry Dauphin said...

It used to be false consciousness, now it's delusional. Gee, at least the old commies were a bit more polite. It's always fascinating how folks like Walsh don't believe that their logic also applies to them; they are exempt from the implications of their thinking.

Lauderdale Vet said...

"Individualism or collectivism"

I always called my perspective, for better or worse, "ownership versus entitlement". I used to say that I was socially liberal, but social liberal policy these days seems completely dependent on entitlement (and grievance, Condi said several times last night, marrying the terms) evangelism so I just stopped saying it altogether.

> @EDH wrote:
> You can see the coordinated thematic media response
> to Ryan's speech is that he was dishonest.

Attack the messenger and all that. With that message in these times, there aren’t many options left.

Paul said...

So Ann, looks like you ain't a Democrat any longer! Welcome to the club.

Normally I vote Republican, but only cause it's mighty hard to find conservative/libertarian Democrats anymore.

American was built on FREEDOM FIRST, not safety or jobs or wealth distributation. Freedom to find our own path.

Life, Liberty, and pursuit of happiness is what it is all about.

AJ Lynch said...

I can't wait to see what Walsh has to say when she sees the Manhattan and Beltway bubbles smashed to smithereens in the next four years.

AprilApple said...

The left always whine after they push to far to the hard core collectivist left, and we push back.

ndspinelli said...

Charlie, LOL!

Joan Walsh is a prissy, feminist, has been.

Christopher in MA said...

The left always whine after they push to far to the hard core collectivist left, and we push back.

They especially whine because they expect us to be too stupid to push back. We're just bitter clingers cowering in fear before our Sky Idol.

It's a corollary to that wonderful observation that liberals say they welcome other opinions, then are astonished and furious to find out that there are other opinions.


AprilApple said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EDH said...

"...handful of jobs he briefly held..."

Handful...jobs...held?

Shouldn't that be part of the Craig's List post?

Bob Ellison said...

I made the mistake, largely prompted by this blog, of going to see 2016: Obama's America yesterday. It was insufferably boring. That's the problem Salon has. Center-right and center-left commentary tends to be boring, especially when the authors get into psychobabble like "Ayn Randian roots" and "anti-colonialism".

Political science is not a science, and it's even worse when married to the non-science called psychology.

Astro said...

Joan Walsh's column: half-truths, apples-to-oranges comparisons, opinion and innuendo substituting for 'factual analysis'.
I am reminded again of Bill Buckley's famous line: 'a pyromaniac in a field of straw men.'

wyo sis said...

It looks like the libs have figured out the theme of the Republican convention and lined up their talking points.

AprilApple said...

Yes - I loved Condi's use of the word grievance.

Nothing describes the modern delusional whack job left better than the word "Grievance".

fixed.

AaronS said...

If you're not Julia, you're Ayn.

There's a little room in between that Joan is unaware of.
What we have here is a failure to communicate.

machine said...

Maybe is because Ryan criticized Obama for — yes — not using government funds to prop up an auto plant in his district...which actually closed before Obama became President...

maybe...

Patrick said...

they are exempt from the implications of their thinking.

This reminds me of a Doonesbury comic from way back when that was still worth reading.

Duke, then ambassador to China was not being kept in that position by Carter. He was told by his trusty c
Chinese assistant that Leonard Woodcock was chosen because "he was sensitive to the working class."

Duke's response: "Well of course he's sensitive to the working class. That's how he avoids belonging to it!"

Not really relevant, but Mr. Dauphin's comment sparked that memory, from back when Trudeau wasn't such a hack.

AprilApple said...

The left hate Ayn Rand and they don't really know why. It's all group thinky knee jerk reactionary BS.

Ayn Rand misconception:

"One major misconception is that Rand worshipped the rich and saw moneymaking as life’s highest goal. In fact, most wealthy characters in her novels are pathetic, repulsive, or both: businessmen fattened on shady deals or government perks, society people who fill their empty lives with luxury. (There are also sympathetic poor and working-class characters.) . . . .To Rand, being ‘selfish’ meant being true to oneself, neither sacrificing one’s own desires nor trampling on others. Likewise, Rand’s stance against altruism was not an assault on compassion so much as a critique of doctrines that subordinate the individual to a collective—state, church, community, or family.”
-Cathy Young

Eric Jablow said...

Barry,

The newer commies also used 'delusional'. After all, they invented 'creeping schizophrenia' and other pseudo-psychiatric diagnoses to send dissidents to mental hospitals and then to drug them.

Jay said...

ne said...
Maybe is because Ryan criticized Obama for — yes — not using government funds to prop up an auto plant in his district...which actually closed before Obama became President...


Um, the plant closed in 2009.

So yet again, you prove that you are not that bright and easily misled.

Jay said...

The left's favorite source Wikipedia says the Janesville, Wisc., auto plant closed in 2009. Not 2008.

Machine will hold on, bitterly, to his little lie though.

The day will go by better that way.

Lindsey Meadows said...

For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" referring to anything other than other people helped out, teachers, mentors, others who helped with infrastructure, and above all, others that produced the nation we and you live in, in which people can flourish.

The GOP has truncated that phrase and thought and you quote it and that is dishonest.

Sue D'Nhym said...

I am intrigued by the idea that there is a middle road in between collectivism and individualism. Can you flesh out this thought, as to me it seems a completely binary either-or type of thing.

AprilApple said...

So "people helped" = "You didn't build that".
Got it.

AJ Lynch said...

Lindsay:

Suggest you look at the video again.

I have never seen Obama so animated in a speech. He waves his arms a couple times while saying "you think it's because you are so smart? You think it is because you work so hard? Well, let me tell you there are a lot of smart, hard-working folks out there"

To me, this was an even more daming statment by Obama. It shows he has resented and has a disdain for those who have succeeded and for those who have wealth. He is a hater.

Calypso Facto said...

The GOP has truncated that phrase and thought and you quote it and that is dishonest.

Nope. I've watched the full segment and it's even worse in full context. There's no "out of context" excuse for that attack on the American Dream.

Colonel Angus said...

She thinks Ryan is paranoid to imply that the Democrats favor "the supervision and sanctimony of the central planners."

Paranoid? What does she think the ACA is if not the sancatamonious supervision of our health care from Washington DC?

The lack of self awareness of liberal Democrats is at times breathtaking to witness.

garage mahal said...

Lyin Ryan.

Jay said...

Lindsey Meadows said...

The GOP has truncated that phrase and thought and you quote it and that is dishonest.


Aw, your wishful thinking is so cute in the morning.

Colonel Angus said...

For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that"

Keep digging that hole. You should be to China soon.

ricpic said...

Lyin Ryan.

I made my path and you can too. Ooh, what a terrible lie.

EMD said...

I have never seen Obama so animated in a speech. He waves his arms a couple times while saying "you think it's because you are so smart? You think it is because you work so hard? Well, let me tell you there are a lot of smart, hard-working folks out there"

To me, this was an even more daming statment by Obama. It shows he has resented and has a disdain for those who have succeeded and for those who have wealth. He is a hater.



I concur. The preceding statements undercutting the ingenuity and industry of business builders was even more damning to his

EMD said...

Damning to his worldview, that should say.

Colonel Angus said...

What makes Obama's you didn't build that slur even worse is it implies the business owner didn't contribute anything to the infrastructure and public works.

His words are in plain sight in full context and your refusal to take his statement at face value is simply evidence of your close minded partisanship.

Furthermore, your shrill screeching to redefine what he actually said and meant clearly shows you know how damaging it was for him.

BarryD said...

Ayn Rand, for all her faults, did such a good job of exposing the thinking of people like Walsh -- and Obama, for that matter -- that she still scares the living crap out of the Salon set, and the Democratic establishment.

When you read Atlas Shrugged today, despite its anachronisms and imperfect style, it seems like the Obama Administration has been using it as a how-to manual -- with the help of the fine folks at too-big-to-fail banks, GM, GE, and little ripoff scheme companies like Solyndra. Seriously: damn near everything you hear from someone in DC today sounds like it was said by a Rand villain. Apparently there are many people who recognize this, and want to keep people from seeing it.

EDH said...

EDH said...
You can see the coordinated thematic media response to Ryan's speech is that he was dishonest.


Note the AP "Fact Checker" is in need of fact checking.

Fact-checking the factcheckers on Ryan’s speech

How much you want to bet the "Ryan lied" media meme traces back to a coordinated messaging effort by the Obama campaign?

Patrick said...

It is very possible that this election will turn on the absolute clarity with which the President expressed his disdain for those who "think they are so smart" and those who "think they work so hard." His statement is dripping with contempt for those who dare to work for themselves. His failure to understand that those "roads and bridges" can't come until after those businesses have succeeded is stunning.

It is not difficult. I feel bad for Lindsey and Garage, having to pretend this President said something other than what he clearly said. He went off the teleprompter, and mistakenly said what he believes.

Smart fellow, don't you think?

Fprawl said...

The Joan Walsh's have lost the 'You didn't Build That' argument. It's over.
The parsing over Rand is salve for the Left, who can rally around the spittle from Chris Matthews lips, but can't sway the undecideds.
Her column also calls Ryan a liar for saying Obama did nothing about Simpson Bowles , plant closing. The problem is, OBAMA REALLY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, and all of Ryans votes don't change that. STRAW DOG ALERT. And the plant closed in 2009, laying off the last 57 workers.

Obama is a Tax and Spend Democrat, that in itself is enough for him to lose without all the other stuff.

Rusty said...

Lindsey Meadows said...
For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" referring to anything other than other people helped out, teachers, mentors, others who helped with infrastructure, and above all, others that produced the nation we and you live in, in which people can flourish.


You sure you want to die on that hill?



garage mahal said...
Lyin Ryan.

I'm sure you'll point out in great detail with many references exactly what is being lied about, or resort to you're usual tack of running away.

Colonel Angus said...

He went off the teleprompter, and mistakenly said what he believes.

His beliefs have been crystal clear from day one. The people are incapable of doing anything for themselves without the government. I asked Lindsey in an older thread that if my success as a business owner is due to the public, infrastructure and inspirational third grade teacher, can my failure be laid at their feet as well or do I soley own that?

Surprisingly, she withheld comment.

kentuckyliz said...

When I worked the restaurant and retail jobs in my early work experiences as a youth, I observed some people around me who had decided that was their career and all they would ever do.

It was fuel for my motivation to study hard and go to college and achieve something.

People make such decisions all the time. It takes effort to get out of the path of least resistance that can suck you in, to discover and develop one's talents and interests enough to offer something of value in the market.

It isn't easy, but nothing worth it ever is.

furious_a said...

Lindsey, Lindsey, Lindsey: For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that"

Please-please-please keep repeating this between now and Election Day! Y'all are like an anti-matter universe Todd Akin -- you don't know when to shut up and then afterward you don't know when to quit digging.

"If You've Got a Business, You Didn't Build That. Somebody Else Made That Happen."

hawkeyedjb said...

I've watched the Obama speech 'in context' as the saying goes. It was a great big, loud, animated "Fuck You" to anyone who takes credit for success through initiative. Obama makes the puerile observation that we live in a society that provides infrastructure via government, then concludes that government must therefore be responsible for any success we enjoy. Well, to paraphrase the president, there are lots of countries out there with roads and bridges and education systems. The ones who shit on entrepreneurs tend to be, shall we say, less than attractive to the people who want to accomplish something.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Lyin Ryan.


Notice how weak and pathetic.

I think even garagie can see where this is all going...

hawkeyedjb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Lindsey Meadows,

For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" referring to anything other than other people helped out, teachers, mentors, others who helped with infrastructure, and above all, others that produced the nation we and you live in, in which people can flourish.

Well, the "mentors" (like the "church" and "community" you brought up in another thread) weren't anywhere in Obama's remarks, you know.

If Obama was trying to say something so utterly obvious as that building a business involves the work of people other than oneself, I doubt that he would have wasted time saying it. His point was all about government -- hence the (presumably public-school) "inspiring teacher," and the roads and bridges. The difficulty, of course, is that the roads and bridges are available to everyone (the inspiring teachers are a bit of a crapshoot, I admit), and yet not all of us are successful small business owners. Why ever not?

Jon S. said...

Perhaps Ms. Walsh has never encountered Lincoln's Address to the..wait for it...Wisconsin Agricultural Society in 1859 where he makes the exact same point as Ryan.

garage mahal said...

Lying is Wonky! Serious. Bold. Courageous. Smart. Math. Adult!

Larry J said...

To me, this was an even more daming statment by Obama. It shows he has resented and has a disdain for those who have succeeded and for those who have wealth. He is a hater.

There's a reason why envy was perhaps the worst of the 7 Deadly Sins. It gives rise to hatred and to people like Obama.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Lying is Wonky! Serious. Bold. Courageous. Smart. Math. Adult!


Keep repeating the meme garagie!

I mean, you have all these data points to show the lies & stuff!

Bob Ellison said...

The fundamental misunderstanding about "you didn't build that" is that those schools, bridges, roads, and all would never have been built without taxes paid by people who built their own businesses.

Government is a luxury that civilized people build. It is not a prerequisite of success; it is a result of success, and can be a promoter of success if properly structured.

MayBee said...

Obama has never riffed on the handful of jobs he briefly had. I think he once mentioned he worked at a Baskin Robbins at some point. Other than that, has he ever mentioned a summer job during high school or college?
I know he kind of made up his first job out of college.

Nathan Alexander said...

For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" referring to anything other than other people helped out, teachers, mentors, others who helped with infrastructure, and above all, others that produced the nation we and you live in, in which people can flourish.

It is utterly fascinating to see you explain that Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" because what he meant was actually "you didn't build that".

Nathan Alexander said...

remember to consult your "liberal to English" dictionary anytime a liberal/progressive mentions "lies!"

Lie - n. - any factually, objectively and contextually true statement that a liberal/progressive can't refute or disprove that will potentially harm a liberal/progressive politician's chances for (re-)election.

RichardS said...

Ryan's philosophy also makes the living constitution argument much harder. If there's no consensus about who we are as a people and about where we're going (and if each individual may choose his own path, it cuts against the idea that history is a unified force moving onward, as Hegel, and his student Marx had it), then it is very hard to say what how the constitution shoudl "live."

A living constitution presumes communal consensus about what must be next, constitutionally. If one follows Ryan's philosophy, it makes it impossible to have such consensus.

edutcher said...

So if you say, "I did build that", the Lefties want to say, "Have you no sense of decency?".

There's a stretch.

PS Starting to think Lindsey Meadows is leslyn off meds.

Jay said...

So sad:

“As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America.”

And of course the plant was locked up barely 8 months after King Zero made those comments...

Patrick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chris Wren said...

Charlie said: "I think Joe Walsh might have written a better column."

Why do you say that? Has she ever written a good one?

MayBee said...

People like Walsh and Obama think most Americans could either end up a waiter or a marketing executive, the only difference in fate is luck. They want to even that out, or somehow spread the luck out, so even if everyone can't be a marketing executive, marketing executives and waiters can have more similar lifestyles. This is what the government should do- equalize these people.

People like Walsh and Obama also believe that people like Walsh and Obama are truly smart and talented, and therefore their privileged lifestyles are due to their own unique talent. They aren't like the people who got where they are through luck. They sit above all that, and wish to use the government to affect the lives of those other people.

Bob Ellison said...

Walsh's essay, posted at 11:36 last night (very quickly after Ryan's speech), is entitled "Paul Ryan’s brazen lies". Shortly after midnight, TPM put up something called "Top 5 Fibs In Paul Ryan’s Convention Speech". Over at Dailykos.com, they've got a post this morning entitled "Paul Ryan is a granny-starving liar whose convention speech was filled with lies".

I wonder who wrote up the "Ryan Lied" talking points memo, and when. The left sure took it in and disseminated it fast.

john said...

Current scuttlebut appears to vaildate my guess as to the mystery speaker at the convention. If I'm right, this will make my day.

John Lynch said...

For people like Obama, teachers, mentors and so on are important. Obama, actually both Obamas, are a product of the educational system and moved on into nonprofit organizations and politics.

For people like that, yes, it's a cooperative effort. When you hear Obama or Warren making that argument, it's true- for them.

My general manager at the restaurant was a 7th grade dropout. No, he didn't have any teachers or mentors who got him where he is. He made pizzas until he was running a store. Now he makes a pretty good living.

A lot of this is a class issue. There are people who got where they are by reason of education and following the rules. Then there are people who rejected the rules and did what they wanted. Some of them succeed brilliantly, and that won't do.

It's really about conformity, and punishing nonconformity. There's supposed to be a system, damnit, and if you didn't go through it you don't matter.

John Lynch said...

Oh, and I'd love to hear the President or Elizabeth Warren mention any of the teachers, mentors, or infrastructure that helped them so much by name.

Would be interesting reading. I won't hold my breath.

Paul Risenhoover said...

I'd like to see the surprise speaker be video of Obama giving his You Didn't Build That speech in full context.

damikesc said...

For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" referring to anything other than other people helped out, teachers, mentors, others who helped with infrastructure, and above all, others that produced the nation we and you live in, in which people can flourish.

You keep saying that --- but the transcript and video say otherwise.

And, again, who pays MORE for those services than the rich?

damikesc said...

For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" referring to anything other than other people helped out, teachers, mentors, others who helped with infrastructure, and above all, others that produced the nation we and you live in, in which people can flourish.

You keep saying that --- but the transcript and video say otherwise.

And, again, who pays MORE for those services than the rich?

Mick said...

Salon????!!! HAHAHAHA. Their bias, and adoration of the Usurper immediately brands their "journalism" as quackery. Anything to degrade the honest, the hardworking, the pious, the patriotic is what that site is about. Disgusting unhappy pig is how I would describe Walsh.

Jay said...

machine said...
Maybe is because Ryan criticized Obama for — yes — not using government funds to prop up an auto plant in his district...which actually closed before Obama became President...


How does a "closed" plant produce cars until April 2009 which was during the Obama Presidency?

Thursday, Feb. 19, 2009:

JANESVILLE — General Motors will end medium-duty truck production in Janesville on April 23, four months to the day after the plant stopped building full-size sport utility vehicles.

About 100 employees associated with the line learned of the layoffs Wednesday.

April will mark the end of vehicle production at the Janesville plant that traces its roots to 1919 and the Samson Model M tractor. Chevrolet production started in Janesville in 1923.


All too complicated for you, I'm sure...

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

Keep the faith, Garage. Maybe if you keep talking about the President's contempt for business owners who think they are so smart, someone will believe you.

If Obama is so bad, and Ryan and Republicans are so smart, Ryan and Republicans wouldn't feel the need to lie their ass off. Amazingly, the press corps is starting to notice.

B said...

It's getting beyond pitiful.

I believe diamond with his inheritance lunacy, garage with his auto plant spin, and lindsey with her fascinating language disconnect really do believe what they are saying and Obama is right. He can tell his supporters up is down and depend on their stupidity.

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
john said...

I can envision a great photos showing the mystery speaker and Gov. Martinez with crossed .45s.

LordSomber said...

It's been said elsewhere but crediting "government" and "infrastructure" for running a successful business is like crediting the school bus driver when your kid earns an "A".

furious_a said...

Lindsey: Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" referring to anything other than other people helped out, teachers, mentors, others...

Nor, tellingly, did Pres. Obama credit parents or family. Given his mommy and daddy abandonment issues, I can understand why.

AprilApple said...

Fact-Checking the factcheckers on Ryan's speech.

damikesc said...

That is why people should reference Kessler, FactCheck, and Politifact as jokes. Such as "Even hacks like Kessler couldn't defend Obama's comments".

...as an aside, no conservative should ever appear on MSNBC ever again.

machine said...

By December 2008, when President George W. Bush authorized nearly $14 billion in loans to General Motors and Chrysler, both of which were near financial collapse, GM had already warned it might close the Janesville plant because of sagging sport-utility vehicle sales. The plant was effectively shut down on Dec. 23, 2008, when GM ceased production of SUVs there and laid off 1,200 workers. (Several dozen workers stayed on another four months to finish an order of small- to medium-duty trucks for Isuzu Motors.)

So, the plant closed while Bush was still in office, about a month before Obama was inaugurated.

Joe Schmoe said...

The left is definitely terrified of Rand, and will try to tie anything Ryan says to her. Funny thing is, most on the left have never read her. They just regurgitate what they've been told by Rand-hating lefties, usually academicians.

Annoying Old Guy said...

"I am intrigued by the idea that there is a middle road in between collectivism and individualism"

I think a good example would be the vibrant civil society that Tocqueville observed, a voluntary collectivism. Many have noted that it is precisely that civil society that is the target of the central planners because it obstructs and obviates their efforts.

Nathan Alexander said...

But it didn't actually shut down until after Obama took office.

Joe Schmoe said...

Garage and Chris Matthews should commiserate over a beer. Both are already unhinged, and the campaign is still up in the air. Make it a Michelob Ultra for the corpulent Mahal.

Jay said...

machine said...
So, the plant closed while Bush was still in office, about a month before Obama was inaugurated.


Hey dum-dum:

Why don't you tell us how a "closed plant" produces vehicles and has employees?

bagoh20 said...

It doesn't matter when it closed down. Ryan's point was that Obama said Government could prevent that, and it can't no matter who was President.

Obama was wrong, and people voted for him because they believed a man who never ran anything in his life knows auto manufacturing, or government for that matter.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Ryan and Republicans wouldn't feel the need to lie their ass off


Notice you can't point out a single "lie"

Want to guess why that is?

john said...

He could drive up to the convention door in a Gran Torino.

Because it's a Ford, not a GM.

EMD said...

So, the plant closed while Bush was still in office, about a month before Obama was inaugurated.

Let's quibble until the debt hits $20t!

Jay said...

machine said...
The plant was effectively shut down on Dec. 23, 2008, when GM ceased production of SUVs there and laid off 1,200 workers. (Several dozen workers stayed on another four months to finish an order of small- to medium-duty trucks for Isuzu Motors.)


Notice the lies one must engage in to be a leftist.

A plant isn't "closed" it is "effectively closed" (whatever that means) and more than 100 workers magically becomes "several dozen"

Want to guess why you and your ilk are doing that, little fella?

Sofa King said...

So, the plant closed while Bush was still in office, about a month before Obama was inaugurated.

And, it's still closed, after almost four years of Obama's "recovery."

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Autoworkers are laid off and called back all the time. It's disingenuous to contend the plant was closed because most workers had been laid off before Obama took office.

garage mahal said...

The left is definitely terrified of Rand, and will try to tie anything Ryan says to her.

Ryan is running away from Rand, after saying her philosophy influenced him the most. Ayn Rand worshiped a serial killer, maybe that's why!

Insufficiently Sensitive said...

Pressed, she might — I assume — assert that it's fine for individuals to try to come up with their own ideas about what they want to do with their lives and to set out to achieve their goals,

But please, remember that their 'own ideas' are fine when it comes to sexual behavior, but when it comes to economics or the environment or government, her enlightened mentors must not be asked to relinquish control to the vulgar masses.

maha said...

And what does it say about you that you edited Walsh's column so you could lie about what she meant?

Here's sn unedited bit [note part in brackets that Ann cut out] --

"And when Ryan riffed on the handful of jobs he briefly held, his Ayn Randian roots were clear. 'When I was waiting tables, washing dishes, or mowing lawns for money, I never thought of myself as stuck in some station in life, he said. [Perhaps that's because he wasn't; he grew up in a wealthy family.] I was on my own path, ...'"

Walsh points out that Ryan also left out the part about how Social Security benefits helped pay for his college education.

In other words, she's pointing out that the "I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps all by myself with nobody's help" narrative is essentially a lie. And it is.

maha said...

And what does it say about you that you edited Walsh's column so you could lie about what she meant?

Here's sn unedited bit [note part in brackets that Ann cut out] --

"And when Ryan riffed on the handful of jobs he briefly held, his Ayn Randian roots were clear. 'When I was waiting tables, washing dishes, or mowing lawns for money, I never thought of myself as stuck in some station in life, he said. [Perhaps that's because he wasn't; he grew up in a wealthy family.] I was on my own path, ...'"

Walsh points out that Ryan also left out the part about how Social Security benefits helped pay for his college education.

In other words, she's pointing out that the "I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps all by myself with nobody's help" narrative is essentially a lie. And it is.

DADvocate said...

She disagrees with that word "freedm." You shouldn't be free. You should be doing what liberals perceive as "right."

MayBee said...

Paul Ryan grew up in a wealthy family that relied on social security to pay for his college?

They doesn't sound very wealthy.

Paul Risenhoover said...

GM and its employees should have built a better truck for the money or built the trucks they did for less money. Instead, they did neither.

Brennan said...

In other words, she's pointing out that the "I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps all by myself with nobody's help" narrative is essentially a lie. And it is.

See. What you interpret as being said is what you actually think he said. Thus, a lie.

What Paul Ryan says is not what Paul Ryan means, so you say. Well. Perhaps what Paul Ryan actually says is what Paul Ryan actually means.

Is that not the least bit possible in your mind?

comatus said...

Somebody climbed the fence at GM Janesville last night and painted over the sign.

Now it says "Twentieth Century Motor Company."

Unknown said...

"50s anti-communist paranoia?" Get that lady anything on the Venona secrets, stat!

Ambrose said...

It amazes me sometimes how much the so called progressives live in the almost distant past. 1950s anti-communism? And Chris Matthews' immediate reaction to Ryan was to fault him for not discussing the civil rights movemnet of the 1960s (I watch MSNBC coverage for laughs). Do these people realize it is 2012?

BarrySanders20 said...

"Current scuttlebut appears to vaildate my guess as to the mystery speaker at the convention. If I'm right, this will make my day."

Do you feel lucky, punk?

Well, do ya?

Brennan said...

Autoworkers are laid off and called back all the time.

When an automaker "idles" a plant and therefore the laborers that work there, are they laying them off?

I am not really sure, but my guess is they are not laid off.

MayBee said...

[Perhaps that's because he wasn't; he grew up in a wealthy family.]

See? It is Walsh's belief that someone not from a "wealthy" family is stuck in his station in life.

Jay said...

maha said...

Walsh points out that Ryan also left out the part about how Social Security benefits helped pay for his college education.


I bet they did!

And "wealthy families" depend on Social Security benefits all the time!!

They do!

Moneyrunner said...

Bagho20, let me repeat and emphasize what you said because every comment about the exact date that the GM plant closing is a distraction. It’s beside the point. In his speech Ryan said that Obama came to the Janesville plant promising, with government support, and implying that if he were elected, the plant would be there for a hundred years. Obama was elected, oversaw GM into bankruptcy, gave a major stake to the UAW who helped him get elected, borrowed nearly a trillion dollars and the Janesville plant is still closed. That’s the point and the date of its closing is immaterial. Obama promised many things to many people and the GM plant is Janesville is a perfect example of the failed Obama economic policies and empty promises.

Comanche Voter said...

Handful of jobs he briefly held? Give me a flippin' break. That's the normal pattern for kids getting started. What is this woman's problem? Was she a "corporate wife" safely cossetted in the security blanket of a marriage/sugar daddy so she didn't have to get out and hustle for a living? Was her daddy still around to take care of her into her mid 20's (Ryan's dad was gone at age 16?)

Sneering and snarking--s shriveled up persona indeed.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

When an automaker "idles" a plant and therefore the laborers that work there, are they laying them off?

call·back (kôl b k ). n. 1. The act or an instance of calling back from one location or situation to the previous one: a callback of laid-off auto workers.

roesch/voltaire said...

According to Fox News columnist Sally Kohn, vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan's speech at the Republican National Convention on Wednesday "was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech."

AF said...

"You see what she's saying? She's saying you didn't build that — the very phrase Obama is straining to disown."

No, I actually did not notice that was what Walsh was saying.

ricpic said...

It's just like roeschie to hide behind a woman's skirts rather than fess up to what HE thinks.

Matt said...

We're a moderate country. Always have been. Screw Ayn Rand and libertarians and screw the far left. All are delusional and have no grasp on reality.

AJ Lynch said...

RV- you should know Sally Kohn is a far left librul.

Colonel Angus said...

We can fact check Ryan's 'lies' from here till sundown but none of the Democrats commenting here has yet to provide a credible justification why Obama deserves re-election based upon his performance to date.

Christopher in MA said...

Ryan is running away from Rand, after saying her philosophy influenced him the most. Ayn Rand worshiped a serial killer, maybe that's why!

See, as much as I think garbage is an addled, feces-stained dogfucker who shouldn't be allowed anything sharper than a rubber ball, I have to admit that when the dribble cup overflows, he brings the comedy gold.

trumpetdaddy said...

I'm enjoying watching the libs fall over themselves trying to salvage a bad hand.

Do they seriously think these coordinated talking points are effective? The GM plant lie that the libs tried to spin over the last 12 hours has already fallen apart.

Just admit it. You have that sinking feeling in your gut. I know that feeling. I had it in 2008 whilst watching McCain floundering about. Acceptance of the inevitable is healthy, libs.

Obama is losing badly. It is wise to watch what people do, not what they say. Everything Obama's campaign does, from the piss-poor fundraising, to hysterical crap in their ads, to the incompetent "fact-checking," to where he and his surrogates are campaigning tells you what is really going on.

Obama is losing. Deal with it.

Alex said...

I made my path and you can too. Ooh, what a terrible lie.

That's a lie, only Obama can build your life for you.

Alex said...

r/v - guess what the swing voters don't look at Politfact.com, they are swayed by powerful speech-making.

Alex said...

You lie! There was life on Ceti Alpha V, a fair chance!

SPImmortal said...

According to Fox News columnist Sally Kohn, vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan's speech at the Republican National Convention on Wednesday "was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech."

-------------------

If the number of lies is so great, then list them...

I'll be waiting.

Jay said...

roesch/voltaire said...
According to Fox News columnist Sally Kohn, vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan's speech at the Republican National Convention on Wednesday "was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech."


And another one of our boobs steps up and fails.

Notice you can't name any "lies" at all.

SH said...

Whats really funny is how close Obama's 'you didn't build that' thing was to what Rand actually had her big gov characters tell business owners they wanted to reign in. It probably is adding to their cognitive dissonance. Rand... in their head with something she wrote several decades ago. They want to argue with her but she is long dead. So they transfer her to others and try to argue with them... about what Rand wrote. Weird stuff IMO.

Alex said...

According to Politifact.com rating Obama vs Ryan in terms of "half true" to "true"

Obama - 69%
Ryan - 56%

So Obama tells the truth FAR more often then Ryan, what does that tell you? It's not what you may think. I believe Obama tells left-wing truths more often because the media won't rake him over the coals for it. Conservatives can't tell their truths because the media will make them pay. F.e., they can't talk about welfare queens.

garage mahal said...

"I have to admit that when the dribble cup overflows, he brings the comedy gold."


Before:

“[T]he reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.”

After:

“I reject her philosophy. It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person’s view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas.”

From Ayn Rand to Thomas Aquinas. That's some bold stuff there, Krissy.

furious_a said...

The Left needs better adverbs:

effectively shut down GM Plant.
mostly peaceful Occupy protestors.
unexpectedly abrupt slowdown in manufacturing.
potentially violent Tea Party rallies.

Colonel Angus said...

From Ayn Rand to Thomas Aquinas. That's some bold stuff there, Krissy.

Does that really bother you? Did you change your mind when Obama disavowed his spiritual mentor even though he sat in his church for two decades and titled one of his books from a Wright quote?

Do you hold the politicians from your political party to the same standards as you do the opposition or are you a blind partisan?

Can you give a credible justification why Obama deserves re-election based upon his performance to date?

Paddy O said...

"was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech."

The world record will never be broken.

The world record holder for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations is Obama's 2008 slogan "hope and change."

paul a'barge said...

Joan Walsh is only marginally better than a pedophile.

Shame her. Shame her in the cultural town square and force her to scurry from the light of day into the darkness and shadows where she and her ilk belong.

No compromise. No surrender. No negotiated agreement. Defeat for her and only defeat.

paul a'barge said...

Joan Walsh is only marginally better than a pedophile.

Shame her. Shame her in the cultural town square and force her to scurry from the light of day into the darkness and shadows where she and her ilk belong.

No compromise. No surrender. No negotiated agreement. Defeat for her and only defeat.

Justin said...

@Jay

The bit about the closing of the GM plant was a blatant lie.

garage mahal said...

Does that really bother you?

Bother? No. Just pointing out some facts for the resident douchebag.

Jay said...

Justin said...
@Jay

The bit about the closing of the GM plant was a blatant lie.


Prove it.

Paul Risenhoover said...

if the GM plant effectively closed when it was announced, then GITMO must be effectively closed.

Alex said...

garage - do you believe in karmic payback for serial abuse?

Colonel Angus said...

I see. So can you offer a credible justification on why Obama deserves re-election based upon his performance to date?

Isn't that what the real question should be and not whether Paul Ryan loved Ayn Rand before he repudiated Ayn Rand?

purusha said...

You are delusional. Central planners? WTF is he talking about? He's throwing out right-wing red meat BS for the kool-aid drinkers like Althouse.

They are going to get beaten. Because people will see through their lies.

Jay said...

Notice that garbage, unable to list any Ryan "lie" is now reduced to wailing about Ayn Rand.

Jay said...

purusha said...
Because people will see through their lies.


Troll #4 steps up.

No "lies" listed.

Justin said...

GM announced the closing of the plant before the 2008 election. Obama had nothing to do with it. To suggest otherwise is a blatant lie. But it plays well to certain middle class voters in the midwest that Republicans need but probably will not get. I highly doubt the GM plant closure will remain a talking point.

Other than this, I haven't any reports that make any credible claim that anything else Ryan said was a lie.

AprilApple said...

Another promise by Obama that had an expiration date:

“Reports that the GM plant I visited in Janesville may shut down sooner than expected are a painful reminder of the tough economic times facing working families across this country. This news is also a reminder that Washington needs to finally live up to its promise to help our automakers compete in our global economy. As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America.”
--Barack Obama

Justin said...

if the GM plant effectively closed when it was announced, then GITMO must be effectively closed.

Oh, give me a break. Almost all of the workers were gone before Obama was sworn in. The point of the statement was to suggest that Obama's policies had something to do with the plant closure. They didn't.

This one really isn't defensible.

AprilApple said...

So, Obama's promise to re-tool that plant in Janesville WI was just a joke?

Jay said...

Justin said...
GM announced the closing of the plant before the 2008 election.


Paul Ryan never said anything about the "announcement" of the closing.

So there is no "blantant lie"

Duh.

SH said...

Lindsey Meadows said...

"For once and for all, Obama didn't say "you didn't build that" referring to anything other than other people helped out, teachers, mentors, others who helped with infrastructure, and above all, others that produced the nation we and you live in, in which people can flourish."

We know; and that is bad enough. Most of my teachers sucked, WE paid for the infrastructure, et cetera. We don't owe you or the state. Via government I think I owe vets, cops, and others injured on the job. I owe the poor with or without the state due to my obligation to my fellow man. Other than these; take a hike.

Methadras said...

How is that Randian or Objectivist. I felt the same way and I did the same things. I worked multitudes of jobs growing up to make money. By the time I was 12 I had lost my virginity and could live on my own.

Ryan simply quantified for millions of Americans the same thing he went through they went through. They wanted to make their own way. To pursue those things that allowed them to attain whatever they wished. Why is this prone to criticism by leftards? Because if they can't hate it, they are out of a job. If they can't call you a racist, bigot, homophobe, white, christian, xenophobe, rich, et al. then they have nothing. Their arguments die on the breath that uttered them.

Jay said...

Justin said...
. The point of the statement was to suggest that Obama's policies had something to do with the plant closure. They didn't.


No, see you silly little liar, the "point" was this:

Obama said his policies would keep the plant open.

Obama's policies did not.

You not being able to grasp the meaning of plain English sentences (pasted below) is a you problem.

Ryan said:

My own state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it. Especially in Janesville where we were about to lose a major factory. A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that G.M. plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said, "I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another 100 years."
That's what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that's how it is in so many towns where the recovery that was promised is no where in sight.

AprilApple said...

Guy Benson Reports:

(3) The GM Plant - Part of the factory Ryan mentioned was shut down under Bush, despite the initial GM bailout (which Senator Obama supported). The plant finally fully closed in April of 2009, during Obama's presidency, as this report clearly states. Obama's problem is that he showed up and made empty promises to pander for votes. Ryan never said Obama was personally responsible for the plant's closure, but he accurately stated that it closed down within a year of candidate Obama's hope-filled speech and remains closed today. Obama goes on and on about "saving" the auto industry and his economic recovery. That boarded-up Janesville plant tells a different story.

(4) The Stimulus - Pointing out that Paul Ryan asked that his district receive a slice of a giant, wasteful pie after it was passed -- and despite his opposition -- is at worst an instance of hypocrisy. It does not disprove anything that Ryan said in his speech, and it does not change the empirical fact that Barack Obama's borrowed stimulus has utterly failed based on the metrics for success Obama himself set out for it.

...

Jay said...

Justin said...
This one really isn't defensible.


Look, you don't have an utter clue what was said or what it means.

Go back and start over.

Thanks.

Colonel Angus said...

I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow

Considering that GM is suspending production of the Volt for the second time this year due to lack of demand, I'd suggest his efforts are misplaced.

SunnyJ said...

So by now, the left realizes Paul Ryan is no Joe Biden. He's not going to gadfly out numbers and dates and get the year wrong, much less the century.

Ryan lives and breathes Janesville and GM WAS Janesville. The arrogance and hubris of eastcoast "myopinionisfactmakeruppers" to question his story line as "lies" makes the 70% mostly Dem voters that have elected him to represent Janesville, court jesters I guess. Janesville knows Ryan is talking truth and eltist chattering opionaters are going to have to work harder than this to catch him up.

On another note, Walsh states he was on SS for college and doesn't admit this. Seems he was pretty clear about medicare helping his family in several situations. Agreed that death benefit for his dad when he was 16 would be monthly until 18 but that doesn't "pay for college". I'm curious what records she is looking at, if any. And if she is looking at records that show how Ryan paid for college...I'd sure like to see the press demand to see how Obama paid for college. The prosecution opened this line of question and the defense demands discovery and rebuttle.

Trashhauler said...

"She's deeply into the collectivism the Democrats don't want to openly embrace."

I am struck by how often the Left must hide what they believe in and how often they try to disguise their real agenda under a more moderate mask.



Justin said...

So, Obama's promise to re-tool that plant in Janesville WI was just a joke?

How was he supposed to re-tool a plant that was already closed when he took office? And he said plants like the Janesville plant.

I don't think making an issue of Obama's record with respect to the auto industry is a smart move for Republicans. They are making a play for a certain voting block in the midwest, and I don't think it's going to work.


gloogle said...

Oh, garage. Keep embracing that meme.

And above all, please keep spouting your drivel.

AprilApple said...

More truth from Guy Benson:

5) The debt commission - What Ryan said is absolutely correct. The Obama ad quotes Chris Wallace, who notes that Ryan was on that commission and voted against it. True. He refused to abide the section maintaining Obamacare, and voted no on its final findings. Still, he was intimately involved in the group's deliberations and proposed solutions. Not fully happy with the final outcome, he went on to craft two budgets of his own, with numerous elements based on the Simpson-Bowles framework. The commission's Democratic co-chairman (Bowles of Simpson-Bowles) has praised Ryan's proposals to the hilt. Barack Obama, who convened the commission in the first place after deriding commissions on the campaign trail, completely ignored its recommendations and proceeded to propose to wildly reckless, debt-busting budgets that received a total of zero votes in either house of Congress. Correctly asserting that Ryan opposed the final Simpson-Bowles recommendations is no way absolves Obama for his demonstrable abdication of leadership on these issues. It's more smoke and mirrors -- and more petty Obama blame, another central theme of Ryan's address.

(6) Chris Matthews called the speech "nasty." Stop the presses!

The truth. It burns.

SunnyJ said...

So by now, the left realizes Paul Ryan is no Joe Biden. He's not going to gadfly out numbers and dates and get the year wrong, much less the century.

Ryan lives and breathes Janesville and GM WAS Janesville. The arrogance and hubris of eastcoast "myopinionisfactmakeruppers" to question his story line as "lies" makes the 70% mostly Dem voters that have elected him to represent Janesville, court jesters I guess. Janesville knows Ryan is talking truth and eltist chattering opionaters are going to have to work harder than this to catch him up.

On another note, Walsh states he was on SS for college and doesn't admit this. Seems he was pretty clear about medicare helping his family in several situations. Agreed that death benefit for his dad when he was 16 would be monthly until 18 but that doesn't "pay for college". I'm curious what records she is looking at, if any. And if she is looking at records that show how Ryan paid for college...I'd sure like to see the press demand to see how Obama paid for college. The prosecution opened this line of question and the defense demands discovery and rebuttle.

Jay said...

Justin said...

How was he supposed to re-tool a plant that was already closed when he took office?


In other words, what Obama says means absolutely nothing.

He may as well have said he's giving Janesville 3 trillion dollars.

That would have been just as truthful.

Justin said...

Obama said his policies would keep the plant open.

Obama's policies did not.


None of Obama's policies were implemented before the plant closed. Ryan clearly suggested that Obama's policies had something to do with the fact that plant wound up closed. They did not. You are the one with the "you problem," you smug son of a bitch.

Jay said...

So:

Obama said, "I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another 100 years."


And to the tune of $16 billion, then an additional $31 billion, the government was there to support GM.

Justin is busy pretending a closed plant still produces cars, missing the point of the speech entirely.

Totally stunning.

MayBee said...

How was he supposed to re-tool a plant that was already closed when he took office?

So a plant, once closed, must remain closed forever?

What does this say about the Fisker plant in Delaware? It's essentially closed but waiting to be re-tooled for the Fisker production that is supposed to happen?

Jay said...

Justin said...

None of Obama's policies were implemented before the plant closed.


You mean other than a $16 billion dollar loan to GM, right?

Note: you simply can't make a post here without lying.

You big truth teller!

SH said...

Sue D'Nhym said...

"I am intrigued by the idea that there is a middle road in between collectivism and individualism. Can you flesh out this thought, as to me it seems a completely binary either-or type of thing."

There sort of is but it is closer to the republican vision. We want our personal space / individual freedom... but we'll still part in government (does make me feel a little dirty though), a church, and other collective enterprises... provided they don't get too pushy / intrusive in certain areas... while at the same time allowing it in deep in some areas (we'll die in the military or internalize and adhere to commandments we have to follow even though they can be hard to, et cetera)...

AprilApple said...

Yo Garage:

Truth about Simpson-Bowles and the debt commission:

"The Obama ad quotes Chris Wallace, who notes that Ryan was on that commission and voted against it. True. He refused to abide the section maintaining Obamacare, and voted no on its final findings. Still, he was intimately involved in the group's deliberations and proposed solutions. Not fully happy with the final outcome, he went on to craft two budgets of his own, with numerous elements based on the Simpson-Bowles framework. The commission's Democratic co-chairman (Bowles of Simpson-Bowles) has praised Ryan's proposals to the hilt. Barack Obama, who convened the commission in the first place after deriding commissions on the campaign trail, completely ignored its recommendations and proceeded to propose to wildly reckless, debt-busting budgets that received a total of zero votes in either house of Congress. Correctly asserting that Ryan opposed the final Simpson-Bowles recommendations is no way absolves Obama for his demonstrable abdication of leadership on these issues. It's more smoke and mirrors -- and more petty Obama blame, another central theme of Ryan's address."

Gosh darn it.

Jay said...

clearly suggested that Obama's policies had something to do with the fact that plant wound up closed.

No he didn't, you lying asshole.

But hey, you big truth teller, you could point out the actual words showing how correct you are.

Richard Fagin said...

To paraphrase Chevy Chase from 1970s vintage Saturday Night Live, "Joan, you ignorant slut!"

SukieTawdry said...

Joan Walsh. Really?

There are any number of people whose opinions are of absolutely no interest to me. Joan Walsh is one of them.

Palladian said...

They are going to get beaten. Because people will see through their lies.

If Romney/Ryan lose, it will be because people were lost in the dense fog of the Democrat party's lies. It's a real pea-souper out there.

Lindsey Meadows said...

Colonel Angus said...
What makes Obama's you didn't build that slur even worse is it implies the business owner didn't contribute anything to the infrastructure and public works."

That is outright stupid. Of course he did. But we have all contributed to the greater good so that anyone can succeed. You just have to one time, get off your high horse and recognize that we
ALL contribute to the fabric that lets your business flourish.

Only the most arrogant think that they did it all by themselves. You and Romney seem to be a case in point.

Can you imagine Mitten telling Anne that her contribution to his success was of no value, that it didn't count, that it was a zero contribution and by God he is where he is because no one, not even God, helped at all?

Go ahead. Fly that baby at home and see if your wife kicks your sorry ass out the door.

AprilApple said...

Seems to me all we get from Obama and his hacks in the media are lies.

Chris Matthews is the biggest hack of all. Tingle tingle.

Marshal said...

Justin said... Oh, give me a break. Almost all of the workers were gone before Obama was sworn in.

This is not the point at all. Obama said the plant deserved gonvernment support when everyone knew is was slated to close. Ryan was pointing out Obama's lie that he would save the plant.

Here's the Ryan quote immediately preceeding where famed leftist spin coordinator turned "fact checker" Ezra Klein started:

When [Obama] talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

You see how Ryan identified that the plant was closing in the very speech where Klein and you claim it was a lie he didn't? Looking a fool is the inevitable reward for believing Klein and his fellow journolisters.

That Klein and self-righteous leftists like you lecture others about lies is ridiculous.

Further the plant didn't close until April of 2009, and could have been retooled and re-opened well after that had Obama had any intent of keeping his committment.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Justin,

How was he supposed to re-tool a plant that was already closed when he took office? And he said plants like the Janesville plant.

Actually, no; he said "this plant." And the plant was "closed when he took office" only in that term-of-art sense in which a "closed" factory might have a hundred or so guys in it turning out trucks for several months.





Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Lindsey Meadows,

Can you imagine Mitten telling Anne that her contribution to his success was of no value, that it didn't count, that it was a zero contribution and by God he is where he is because no one, not even God, helped at all?

Go ahead. Fly that baby at home and see if your wife kicks your sorry ass out the door.


Only Obama didn't talk about family or God, did he? He talked about government. Nothing else.

SH said...

Lindsey Meadows said...

"Go ahead. Fly that baby at home and see if your wife kicks your sorry ass out the door."

In the end this is the only route you have to argue... getting emotional. We know what Obama meant, we tell people and they don't like it. Spin all you want that we are misrepresenting it... but even when you explain what he 'really meant' people still hear the same thing and still don't like it.

SPImmortal said...

That is outright stupid. Of course he did. But we have all contributed to the greater good so that anyone can succeed. You just have to one time, get off your high horse and recognize that we
ALL contribute to the fabric that lets your business flourish.

Only the most arrogant think that they did it all by themselves. You and Romney seem to be a case in point.

-----------------

And since this community contribution (never described) is what allows businesses to flourish, well then business people owe their largess to the public, right?

Marxist rhetoric never changes, a bleat of moral superiority to justify confiscation.

AJ Lynch said...

Richard- it was Dan Ackroyd not Chevy Chase!

Jay said...

How was he supposed to re-tool a plant that was already closed when he took office?

That's right Justin!

No plant that ever closed was ever re-opened!

Never!!

NOt in the history of America!

Remember, "accountability" is a word you shout at elected Republicans.

PS: GM received a $16 billion dollar loan in Dec 2008.

Liar.

Marshal said...

Justin said...
Ryan clearly suggested that Obama's policies had something to do with the fact that plant wound up closed. They did not. You are the one with the "you problem," you smug son of a bitch.


Again, this is a lie by Klein and pure ignorance on Justin's part.

Here's what Obama said at the plant where the closure had already been announced:

“I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

And Ryan pointed out Obama made no effort to reverse the closure decision as he clearly implied.

So the evidence shows the smug son of a bith is Justin, and that in addition to being completely ignorant of facts he is a bit of an asshole also.

SH said...

Calypso Facto said...

"Nope. I've watched the full segment and it's even worse in full context. There's no "out of context" excuse for that attack on the American Dream."

I'm also not sure it was truncated BTW. Seems the ...'s in the transcript are pauses; not cuts.

Alex said...

We all know Obama is a pro-business guy right?

Alex said...

Where did Obama ever attack the American dream except in GOP fantasy worlds?

Alex said...

Lies, lies and more lies from Paul Ryan

Synova said...

"Oh, give me a break. Almost all of the workers were gone before Obama was sworn in. The point of the statement was to suggest that Obama's policies had something to do with the plant closure. They didn't.

This one really isn't defensible.
"

Isn't it?

I thought that the point of the statement was that Obama stood in front of the janesville plant and named it by name and promised to keep it open, knowing full well, as did all of his audience, that it was already scheduled for closure. That was the point. That's why he was there. Obama did not make his PROMISE and then find out later that GM would close the plant before he got a chance to save it.

I understand, I really do, why the "fact check" is quibbling about when, exactly, the plant closed instead of about Obama's promise to keep it open.

Because that really isn't defensible.

And none of you ever hold him to his promises. Why? If the plant closing wasn't something he could have prevented, why did he promise to prevent it?

Why don't you *care* that he promised to prevent it closing?

Why is Obama always excused after he makes promises (you get to keep the healthcare you like) that anyone with half a brain knows he can't keep. It's always not his fault because he's too wimpy and powerless. But he still makes the promises.

Why don't you care?

SPImmortal said...

Barack Obama's "you didn't build that" speech boils down to one thing...YOU OWE US. That's what he's saying.

And we don't owe for the purposes of building bridges or roads or cops or any of the other red herrings that the left throws out, you owe money to the government so the Dems can put money in the pockets of their voters and business interests. It's called patronage, and there was never a worse form of corruption.

As Newsweek once stated, we are all socialists now, excepting those leftists that wish to deny they are socialists when it suits them.

Alex said...

Bottom line is the GOP can't win by lying through their teeth. They have to tell the truth to the American people and they can start by saying "Barack Obama is not an enemy of capitalism, he does not want to steal the American dream".

SH said...

PS
Once and for all (throw away phrase, just saying it for fun... sorry)... Obama's speech was based on another that did say exactly that you didn't build that... which was based on another that also argued that. But some how when O said it; 'it didn't mean that'...

furious_a said...

Garage: How was he supposed to re-tool a plant that was already closed when he took office?

sigh

You big silly, the plant didn't idle completely until April 2009. GM filed for bankruptcy only two months later.

GM opted to "re-tool" likewise idled Tennessee plant, instead.

AJ Lynch said...


Dan Ackroyd clip on SNL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80nW6AOhTs

Oclarki said...

Lindsey,

Don't you have to get ready for your next A2M scene with Mr Marcus?

Synova said...

Who built that; the infrastructure and markets and society; that's not government that built that. It's not even other *people* who built that. It's not pay forward or pay back, it's pay as you go.

And we all pay as we go.

Implying that some people benefit without contributing and *now* have an obligation to finally contribute, that's not just insulting to the effort they put into their success, it's factually wrong.

Not only do businesses pay as they go as they pay fees and taxes, they contribute to a dynamic economy by providing a wanted service or product to the market and employment for other people.

How "you made it, now you should pay" passes the laugh test, I have no idea. Perhaps a Marxist lens blocks out anything like humor.

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christopher in MA said...

Bother? No. Just pointing out some facts for the resident douchebag.

What facts are those, dullard? That Ayn Rand's worldview inspired Ryan's entry into the public sector? And that he prefers Aquinas to Rand as a political philosopher? Good for you. You can cut and paste.

One can certainly espouse Randian and Thomistic worldviews and sync them into a larger whole, though it would be a fairly rickety structure. You see lies. I see someone willing to re-evaluate his animating principles in light of the real world.

You, however, are an Obama-fellating hack. I note you're too much of a coward to answer the Colonel's questions, as well.

wildswan said...

You didn't build that plant in Janesville but you did close it.

This summarizes garage and company's comments on the plant closing in Janesville.

furious_a said...

Doing Politi"fact"'s work for them...

Then-candidate Obama promised "...that this plant will be here for another hundred years." He did not explicitly promise that anyone would be working in it.

Politifact rates this promise "mostly kept".

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Why is Obama always excused after he makes promises (you get to keep the healthcare you like)

LOL. Politifact rated that statement as half true. They probably came to that conclusion by estimating that 50% of Americans would not be thrown on government exchanges.

Paul said...

"And none of you ever hold him to his promises."

And there is the crux of the matter.

garage and the rest of his stupid, lying cohorts screech and scream about Republican "lies" that always rely on corrupted context or tortured logic, but the out and out whoppers that their Black Jesus has spouted from day one are overlooked without a care.

And they ARE whoppers!

I will cut the deficit in half.

This is the day the oceans start to recede and the planet begins to heal.

Are you fucking kidding me??!!!

And yet garage is spitting all over his monitor in outrage because Paul Ryan quotes Obama's own words promising a plant will remain open for a hundred years if he's elected and allowed to implement his policy.

Fprawl said...

“I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what (Obama) said in 2008.
Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.

This is not a lie, The government was not there to support them, and the plant did not last 100 years.

This is a lie only in the sense that my wife discerns lies. She reads my mind, realizes what I meant to say, albeit what I didn't say, and deems it a lie because it doesn't agree with what she correctly read in my mind.

Synova said...

When I was waiting tables, washing dishes, or mowing lawns for money, I never thought of myself as stuck in some station in life... I was on my own path, my own journey, an American journey where I could think for myself, decide for myself, define happiness for myself."

Yes, complaining about this and thinking that it is Randian is silly. (It's not contrary to Rand, but essentially Rand? No.) And yes, it requires the assumption that anyone not privileged is stuck in a station of life. For this to be anything other than an awesome statement of the American Dream of upward mobility, you HAVE to believe that there is no American Dream of upward mobility.

And we see stupid like that, right along. Any time someone suggests that it might be good for a disadvantaged, unprivileged young person to get what used to be called an "entry level" job or other "labor" job, the assumption is that they will be stuck there. Those learning-to-work and be a good employee and get some experience in order to get a better job and move UP comments are hateful, probably racist, because there IS NO MOVE UP.

So suggesting work for someone is hate.

It's amazing.

The *caring* thing is to insist that the disadvantaged never take a job that is below them. It's fine for RYAN because he's special and different. But anyone from a disadvantaged back ground, who's parents can't afford to support them, they need to watch their dignity and get lifted to an "entry level" job that it would be OK for them to get STUCK in as their life station.

If this is the choice we have, this choice of philosophies and realities, I don't know how anyone could vote Democrat. How depressing! How defeatist and sad.

And not at all true.

Synova said...

I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what (Obama) said in 2008.
Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.

This is not a lie, The government was not there to support them, and the plant did not last 100 years.

This is a lie only in the sense that my wife discerns lies. She reads my mind, realizes what I meant to say, albeit what I didn't say, and deems it a lie because it doesn't agree with what she correctly read in my mind
.

That's mighty generous of you. But I suppose you need to be generous to Obama.

After all, there wasn't any implication there where a reasonable person would believe Obama was saying that his election would bring this to pass. Of course not.

It was just his mouth moving and meaningless sounds coming out of it.

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