May 22, 2012

"Black Mormons and the Politics of Identity."

Another NYT article about Mormons and the presidential election.
The conversion of blacks in this country has been a challenge, given the church’s turbulent history of excluding people of black African descent. Until 1978, black males were not allowed to become priests or bishops; dark skin was considered a biblical curse. During the 1960s, when Mitt Romney’s father, George, made civil rights a personal priority during his time as Republican governor of Michigan, his progressive views put him at odds with church doctrine. Over the last decades, however, there has been an aggressive campaign to diversify, and racism in the church — which was itself once powerless and persecuted as a cult — has been repeatedly denounced...
And here's a joke that, according to the NYT, is "making the rounds" with black Mormons:
Mr. Obama calls Mr. Romney to say he thinks it is time the country had a Mormon president. But just as Mr. Romney is thanking the president for the apparent concession, Mr. Obama interrupts him to say, “My baptism is on Saturday.” 

61 comments:

Andy R. said...

So according to Mormons, God thinks that black skin is a biblical curse until the civil rights movement happens and then God changes his mind?

damikesc said...

My the NYT seems REALLY interested in Mormonism.

I mean REALLY interested in it.

Seems odd, no?

Obama's history pre-2004? Irrelevant.

Mormonism? Major issue.

Original Mike said...

The NYT sure seems to be fixated on Romney's religion. Who's running the show over there? Crack?

Quayle said...

So according to Mormons, God thinks that black skin is a biblical curse until the civil rights movement happens and then God changes his mind?

Nope. Wong again.

Expat(ish) said...

A relative, who converted to Mormonism some years ago told me a joke that's apparently been making the rounds for 30 years or more.

Q: How can you tell the mother of the bride at a Mormon wedding?

A: She's pregnant.

See what they're doing there?

_XC

Andy R. said...

Nope. Wong again.

What's the alternative explanation?

Chris said...

Two words for the NYT to figure out:

Mia Love

chickelit said...

Yawn. I'm still waiting for them to come up with something recent.

And I can't wait for Robin Givens' take on Ann Romney's dressage.

chickelit said...

@NYT: Moins Mor, s'il vous plait.

Mark O said...

Remember, The Rev. Wright is off limits.

traditionalguy said...

The Mormon god changes his mind all of the time. He is a flip-flopper god.

That's not Romney's fault. Hmmm?

If anyhing, Romney has worked hard at keeping to his principles. Perhaps that is a reaction to the god of Salt Lake City.

Ann Althouse said...

"Two words for the NYT to figure out: Mia Love."

You might want to check the text of the article for that name before you say that.

chickelit said...

Can't the NYT find anything from Romney's time as governor of MA? You know, something relevant to governing?

Seriously, it's even friendly territory up there.

Chris said...

Ann:

Sorry, I didn't read far enough into the article...nevermind.

Andy R. said...

I wonder if Mormons think their current anti-gay bigotry is somehow different than their previous anti-black bigotry.

Seems like both times they say they are discriminating against who God wants them to discriminate against.

chickelit said...

Andy R. said...
So according to Mormons, God thinks that black skin is a biblical curse until the civil rights movement happens and then God changes his mind?

Why are you so obsessed with tarring people with the past?

I'll bet you cried when Obama was elected too.

chickelit said...

I wonder if Andy R thinks his bigotry is any different today than it was yesterday.

Darrell said...

People that live in cocked hats shouldn't throw kōans.

Andy R. said...

Can't the NYT find anything from Romney's time as governor of MA?

You do know he destroyed his computer and written records, right?

Quayle said...

The Mormon god changes his mind all of the time. He is a flip-flopper god.

The Mormon God is the God of the Old and New Testaments, who is a real living being with real opinions and an agenda which He doesn't always share, and when He does share, it isn't always in whole.

One day he says he's going to destroy Sodom.

Then he gets talked out of it for a while.

One day He lets Joseph get put in jail and treated very badly by his brothers. (Kind of like how we European brothers have mistreated our African brother)

Then one day Joseph is out of prison and raised to the No. 2 spot in Egypt.

One day He says sack and plunder the city in Canaan.

The next day He says sack but don't touch or bring back a single object.

One day He says sacrifice an animal on an alter.

One day He says stop sacrificing animals and take bread and water.

One day His Son says he is only come to none but the house of Israel.

One day His Son tells Peter to not call unclean that which God has made clean.

Tradguy is right - In one light God is a flip flopper from the very beginning.

Andy R. said...

Why are you so obsessed with tarring people with the past?

You realize that Mormons are still using their supposed God's wishes as a reason to oppress people?

chickelit said...

You do know he destroyed his computer and written records, right?

That's why I said "it's friendly territory up there"--meaning, the NYT should be able to rely on local journalists up there--of which there are plenty.

chickelit said...

Andy R wrote: You realize that Mormons are still using their supposed God's wishes as a reason to oppress people? #freeUtah

Shanna said...

Everything I know about Mormon's I learned from 'I'm a Mormon' commercials. Black inner city teachers are well represented.

(I hate those commercials. Are there parody versions on YouTube? There ought to be).

Darrell said...

People that live for ass douses
shouldn't throw kōans.

Shanna said...

One day

I can't believe there was no mention of Job, which has to be one of the most messed up Bible stories there is. Damn.

Darrell said...

Obama didn't have a computer. Or written evidence. It was haraam.

Birches said...

The Mormon god changes his mind all of the time. He is a flip-flopper god.

That is a cynical way of putting it, but yes, Mormons believe that Church policy can always change. Sort of like the change between the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament. Or Jesus changing his mind about helping the Gentile woman, or deciding to preach the Gospel to the unclean as Peter did. As for the question of black men and not having the Priesthood, it might be helpful to know that prior to 1978, the subject was debated by Church leaders, some even as far back as the 1880s. Modern times seem to make it such a neat and tidy box of discrimination, but it was definitely more gray. See blacklds.org

traditionalguy said...

To you Mormon guys...I respect your religion and I actually understand how much work has been put into updating doctrines.

The PCUSA has gone through its own struggles with racists and hyper-Calvinsts. We just commit to letting all speak and respecting them. That sort of weeds out the Pure Doctrine guys.

Keep up the good work.

rehajm said...

You do know he destroyed his computer and written records, right?

Curses! If only there were a public record somewhere, anywhere of all the unspeakable atrocities Romney singlehandedly masterminded against the good people of Massachusetts- NO WAY he'd be elected president! But no- the only record anywhere was on THAT computer!!!...

In reality, excepting for healthcare, Romney's time as governor was surprisingly ineffective. Masachusetts governors are largely figureheads- show up for the meetings, keep your purse in your lap, repeat. The state is really run by the Speaker of the House. The last three speakers were Democrats...and all three are convicted felons.

viator said...

Here is a black Mormon who also has a great name.

"Mia Love is unlike any Congressional candidate ever -- she is African-American, she is Mormon, and she is conservative. Republicans have deemed her race in Utah's newly drawn 4th district one of the top ten most important races in the country"

ABC News

Michael said...

What the NYT fails to understand is that they are wasting these precious bullets way too early. When the real election gets close all this is old news, people have absorbed it or forgotten it. Mostly the latter. High unemployment. Lousy growth. Rotten debt levels. That will be the subject. Not Romney's religion. Not Romney's record at Bain. Not private equity firms. Not gay marriage. Lousy growth. Rotten debt levels. High unemployment.

C R Krieger said...

I liked the joke.

Regards  —  Cliff

C R Krieger said...

re Shanna's comment on the Book of Job, I think it is a great book.

Regards  —  Cliff

walter said...

“The religion is very much a part of me, but I was born black and I will die black.”

If she had a son who became president, he would look like Obama.

I'm glad she's concerned about the economy. Maybe she can arrive at a vote fr "Change".

Shanna said...

re Shanna's comment on the Book of Job, I think it is a great book.

It's certainly interesting...but poor Job. And poor everyone who ever met Job who got to die to prove a point to Satan.

Roger J. said...

old joke: the papal nucio comes into the holy father's bedroom and says, holy father--I have good news and bad news--the pope asks him what. The papal nucio says the good news is the Christ has returned to earth--and the pope asks, what is the bad news? the papal nucio says, "he's calling from Salt Lake City."

holdfast said...

AssHat wrote "You do know he destroyed his computer and written records, right?"

Good. He obviously learned the lessons of Blair Hull and Jack Ryan, who had their "sealed" divorce proceedings splashed all over the media so Barry O could steal an unearned Senate seat.

Yet somehow Barry's entire written history is nowhere to be found. No transcripts, no LSAT grades, no bar scores, nothing to prove he's Teh Smartiest Preznident Evah!

Michael Haz said...

The Mormon bashing isn't going to work. The Obamaites need to call a halt to it.

You know who likes Romney a lot? Catholics. Many Catholics remember living through, or reading about, the anti-Catholic bigotry that was heaped on JFK while he was running, and also while he was president.

I remember it well. It was awful. I was in high school, taking CCD classes evenings and Saturday mornings. We read about it, listened to the news, analyzed the commercials and the press releases. The idea that JFK could be criticized for his religion, the religion he was born into, was angering and horrifying.

I work with Mormons. Good, good people, with the kind of character you'd want in a friend, a neighbor or anyone else you can think of. The same character that Mitt Romney exemplifies. Strong marriages, great kids.

Most Christians don't have a problem with Romney's religion. The Mormon bashers affiliated with the Obama campaign and its media toadies like the NYT better figure that out if they intend to win.

walter said...

You have to admit he was thorough and has tremendous attention to detail. That's executive decision making and getting the job done. Just heard today he's delivering on that promise of increasing electricity costs. Further, not Mormon. All coming together.

JAL said...

You know Quayle, I know a bunch about Mormonism. I chose not to be baptized, but didn't stop learning about it. There are a lot of problems with Mormonism re its relationshipt to orthodox Christianity. Huge problems. Language games and PR don't make them go away.

I have friends who are very well versed (perhaps better than thou) in Mormonism -- some of whom cannot bring themselves to vote for Mitt Romney mainly because they believe the LDS church is going to go into steroid overdrive in the door to door recruitment into the church based on Romney being POTUS.

That being said I will vote for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama because America has a better chance to maintain the rights guaranteed in the Constitution for which our men and women have died to preserve and maintain.

As I watch Barack Obama equivocate and obfuscate and his adminstration regulate the Constitution of the United States out of relevance and and remake America into the very opposite of what our founders envisioned -- I can deal "Mormons."

Would that the New York Times spent some more time looking into the current POTUS, Eric Holder, the DOJ, the czars, the Executive Orders, the Khalidi tape, Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, et al and ad naseum.

The truth shall set you free.

wv trueth (seriously) ofhiumb

Methadras said...

More Romney is a vulture capitalist racist crap again. Do leftwards never learn?

JAL said...

OMG
Andy R. said...
Can't the NYT find anything from Romney's time as governor of MA?

You do know he destroyed his computer and written records, right?


If I weren't watching a sad scene on NCIS I would be laughing sooooo hard!

Howard Dean had HIS records as governor sealed for some amazing number of years before he ran for the nomination.

Obama doesn't have any records from his time as a IL senator!

We know close to NOTHING about Barack Obama's story except what he has chosen to feed us and Andy is chirping about something which in the first few lines of his link states: The move during the final weeks of Romney's administration was legal but unusual for a departing governor

Nothing at all like the transparency of Barack Obama's life, education, financial dealings (Tony Rezko anyone??), associations, yada yada yada !!!!

wyo sis said...

If a person is concerned about what a religious leader says they can very simply pray about it and get an answer. Then they can act upon the answer they get. God seems to place a high value on obedience. Maybe His seeming inconsistencies are a way of determining who will ask and when they get answered will be obedient.
I think the story of Job makes the point that what others think about your relationship with God is not important.

EMD said...

"White NBA Players and the Politics of Identity."

I can write headlines, too!

The Crack Emcee said...

Over the last decades, however, there has been an aggressive campaign to diversify, and racism in the church — which was itself once powerless and persecuted as a cult — has been repeatedly denounced...

"Persecuted."

Jesus, you people will believe anything you're told. I'm talking gul.li.ble. Made any independent investigations of these claims? No? Just taking the cult's word for it? Well isn't that convenient - for the cult.

Newsflash:

Last I heard, Tom Cruise and John Travolta - two very nice guys, BTW - said they weren't in a cult.

Get back to me if you hear different,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Chris,

Two words for the NYT to figure out:

Mia Love


I figured her out - I even met her:

Weak, and if she was white nobody would hear of her or need to.

Conservative Affirmative-Action is just as disgusting as the Liberal kind.

How is it we've grown so partisan nobody sees what they're doing?

The Left puts up a black guy with a NewAge cult by his side, so now the Right is putting up a white guy with a Mormon cult by his side - and they've got an empty-headed, condescending, token black woman named "Love" to,...to,...

Excuse me - I almost vomited in my mouth - carry on,...

walter said...

Yes..all cultivation aside. A choice will be made. And it's not just about the prez, but who else comes along. Is Romney going to pack the admin with Mormons? (God forbid)

autothreads said...

This is how I heard the joke:

What's the difference between Reform, Conservative and Orthodox Jewish weddings?

At a Reform wedding, the rabbi is pregnant. At a Conservative wedding, the bride is pregnant. And at an Orthodox wedding, both mothers are pregnant.

Unknown said...

So the Mormons were a bit tardy about integration, eh? Why should it matter? Why does a similar history of segregation not cause the Times any concern about the Democrats? Remember Theodore Bilbo, George Wallace, Orval Faubus, Lester Maddox, Bull Connor...?

Pookie Number 2 said...

So according to Mormons, God thinks that black skin is a biblical curse until the civil rights movement happens and then God changes his mind?

There are few things more deliciously ironic than being lectured about gullibility by a douchebag who has convinced himself that he's mently healthy, despite the psychological troubles compelling him to have sex with other men.

Frenchy said...

I would like to hear Harry Reid's take on all this. He is a Mormon also, A lot of folks either do not know or forget that fact.

JAL said...

Theodore Bilbo, George Wallace, Orval Faubus, Lester Maddox, Bull Connor...?

Robert Byrd ...

(Oh sh*t.)

JAL said...

An addendum to my point above for Andy & Co. about the records thing with Romney. Not only was it legal, it was made legal in and by a Democrat controlled state.

Mmmmm.

JAL said...

Good morning Crack.

Sir, next to you most people are "weak."

Or maybe it's more genteel.

JAL said...

@ Walter
A rumor I have heard is that certain agencies are already "packed" -- CIA comes to mind but for the life of me I cannot remember where I read that ...

Phil 3:14 said...

Of more than a dozen black Mormons interviewed for this article across the country, eight were Democratic-leaning Obama supporters, two were undecided, and two others said they were committed to voting for Mr. Romney

Does this say more about black Mormons or the NYT ?

Rusty said...

For little Andy.

(In my best Homer Simpson)
He didn't give you Mormon did he?



Crack. People choose to believe what they want to believe. At least in this hemisphere. Railing at them about it only drives them further into their beliefs.
I'm reminded of what Martin Luther said when questioned about the existence of god now that he no longer had the Catholic Church to hold onto.
"What the heart holds most dear, let that be your god."

I'm far more concerned about the cults arising out of the Ayatollahs or Dear Leader.

Nathan Alexander said...

A rumor I have heard is that certain agencies are already "packed" -- CIA comes to mind but for the life of me I cannot remember where I read that

True story.

But I don't think "packed" is really the right description, and it isn't (just) the CIA.

Mormons do fantastically well on background checks for lack of drugs, promiscuous sex, alcohol abuse, etc.

So they are throughout the govt sector, anywhere you need a security clearance.

Plus, due to Mission experience overseas, there are bunches in the military linguist specialty.

I may well know more Mormons than the average Mormon does. Okay, that's an exaggeration...

julesbourglay said...

Question: does any of this NYT bigotry have effect on Sen. Harry Reid as well? Will he speak up to defend his correligionist?

walter said...

Oh yeah...Harry. Somehow..just somehow..keep forgetting about that in yer face Mormon. Thank God(?) he's around to make Mitt seem dynamic and jovial by comparison. Gee...maybe they're not all the same. Maybe their governing tendencies can't be predicted by their cult membership. Hmmmm.