April 3, 2012

"You know, it really is surprising, because I feel like it's a retro-debate that took place in the 1950s..."

Olympia Snowe said.
"It's sort of back to the future, isn't it? And it is surprising in the 21st century we would be revisiting this issue. And Sandra Fluke should have been commended, not condemned, for her courage in expressing her own views and beliefs before members of Congress."
Ironically, what feels retro to me is saying to a woman: good for you for your courage in expressing your own views. It sounds as though she thinks women are timorous, mentally deficient creatures. It sounds like the way you'd compliment a child for attempting to do something "adult." Merely doing it at all is an achievement, quite aside from the quality and value of the performance.

Speaking of retro... this takes me back to the 1700s, when Samuel Johnson said: "Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."

The difference is, Johnson thought he was being quite funny. Snowe is deadly serious. Insipid!

67 comments:

Paul Zrimsek said...

Being deadly serious in an insipid way seems a difficult thing to do.

Pete the Streak said...

Was she really in front of 'members of Congress'?

Or was it just a pretend Congress?

Fen said...

It sounds as though she thinks women are timorous, mentally deficient creatures. It sounds like the way you'd compliment a child for attempting to do something "adult."

I think that 30yr old Sandra Fluke asking the adults in the room to fund her sex life was very courageous.

You've come a long way baby!

Pogo said...

I don't remember having a debate about churches being mandated to supply free contraceptives before.

She may wish to conflate that with prior debates about contraceptive use per se, but that would make her deceptive or a moron.

Or both, if a member of Congress.

Fen said...

"We need more women, and we need more bipartisanship"

If we pay a portion of their rent, can we swing by for the occasional blowjob?

(Shush! Bill)

Paul Zrimsek said...

I don't remember having a debate about churches being mandated to supply free contraceptives before.

We didn't. If we had, Obama would have called the debate we're having now "unprecedented".

roesch/voltaire said...

Pogo in case you had not noticed "Catholic universities, Marquette and Mount Mary in Wisconsin were also offering the benefit prior to enactment of the state’s contraception equity clause in 2010. “Marquette’s policy recognizes that a significant portion of the university’s employees are non-Catholic and that contraceptives are at times prescribed by physicians for purposes other than birth control, spokeswoman Mary Pat Pfeil said.” She stressed that “the choice to use a contraceptive is both a medical decision and a matter of conscience.”
To have to discuss this again is retro. And to claim that Olympia Snow's insights on how Fluke should have been commended, as were the all male panel, instead of condemned is insipid bloggery.

Fen said...

contraceptives are at times prescribed by physicians for purposes other than birth control

Non Sequitur. The Catholic Church already covers contraceptives proscribed for medical conditions (like cysts).

Fen said...

What if I pay her cable bill? Can I get a lap dance?

Pogo said...

"To have to discuss this again is retro."

You left out the word mandatory.

A small word, but an important difference, making it not retro at all. The discussion on asking the state to force its use by churches under threat of legal repercussion including fines or prison was never ever discussed anywhere.

SteveR said...

Thanks Olympia! Bee4n good knowing ya.

edutcher said...

One liar praising another liar.

So much for reaching across the aisle to her friends in the Democrat Party.

One less RINO.

Lyssa said...

I must have missed the point in the 1950s where we debated whether someone else should be forced to pay for a woman's birth control.

What an incredibly stupid statement. I can't figure out how people are so brazenly distorting this debate.

Fen said...

Lyssa, whats stupid about it? I have to buy my own condoms. Why can't you pay for your own birth control?

EMD said...

Oh, Olympia.

TMink said...

I have no problems with Fluke speaking her mind. This is America, and we get to do that here.

I resent her lying while under oath. Either she knew she was lying about birth control costing $3000 a year or she was too stupid to know the difference.

Either reason should disqualify her from speaking to Congress.

You watch, she will soon RUN for Congress.

Trey

Michael said...

These people are so bloody clueless, so out of touch. It makes one want to weep. Do they not have computers that they use to peruse the happenings in the big world? Do they not from time to time stray to sites that might hold opinions not exactly reflecting their own? Do they not have any freaking curiosity about the world they lord about in?

Fen said...

Seriously Lyssa, I'm interested in your view of why this tact is a distortion of this debate.

Hagar said...

It was a staged show event made up to look like a hearing by the Democrat members of the committee, but it was not.
Thus there was no "courage" shown by Ms. Fluke.

Alex said...

You know it's a sad state of affairs when the Catholics aren't allowed to be Catholic. Poor oppressed Catholics. But they had to know they had it coming after 1500 years of oppressing the fuck out of everyone else.

AlphaLiberal said...

Althouse: "Ironically, what feels retro to me is saying too a woman: good for you for your courage in expressing your own views."

Note: Snow never said anything to restrict her statement to women. There is no reason to assume as much.

Both men and women can be intimidated at the thought of addressing a controversial issue before a Congressional hearing. Plenty of people have been chewed up and spat out.

You just go out of your way to defend the right wing. Logic and truth have nothing to do with what you say.

Alex said...

President Fluke in 2024?

SGT Ted said...

Why is saying that you want someone else to pay for the pills that allow you to have sex with no pregnancy considered "Brave"?

"Rude" is the word I would use for Fluke.

"Presumptuous" as well. Thats a good word for Fluke too.

Hows that oppression feel? I savor it, like your tears.

Quayle said...

Islam in transition.

Radical Islam seeking nuclear weapons.

Europe finances hang in the balance.

American finances not far behind.

The poor class losing any semblance of family life and comfort, and with it their children lose their prospects for a life without poverty (or jail.)

Public debt upon the younger generations as far as they can see and farther than they'll ever be able to pay it off.

A unspoken plan to pay the Chinese back with 50 cent dollars. (Hope they don't go to war over it.)

And this excellently educated American woman of reputed vision and courage gets her turn at the microphone, and she wants to talk about her own little sex life.

And thus, my friends, will the American left be left behind by the world, while they stare at their own navels or whatever other body part transfixes them.)

Alex said...

When Rush Limbaugh called Fluke a slut he was insulting & demeaning all women. Your mother, sister, daughter.

wyo sis said...

"Being deadly serious in an insipid way seems a difficult thing to do."

And yet it's done almost universally.

AprilApple said...

What was the value of Fluke's performance?
'I cannot afford to pay for my own birth control. I need someone else to step up and cover for me. Besides, my boyfriend and I are planning a trip to Europe. What's this I hear about the National Debt? ah - who cares. It's all about me and my lefty female courage.'

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

When Rush Limbaugh called Fluke a slut he was insulting & demeaning all women. Your mother, sister, daughter

Really? I thought he was merely insulting women who sling their cunt around so much that they must sacrifice their planned trip to Europe to cover the cost of their sex life.

Michael said...

Alpha: FYI, there was no congressional hearing before which she testified. She did not, in other words, testify before congress. She did not, in more words still, appear before a congressional committee.

rhhardin said...

Fluke would have done better if she had been prettier.

shirley elizabeth said...

Fen, I don't believe Lyssa was quoting someone and then saying the quote is stupid. She is calling the Olympia quote stupid.

Fen said...

Oh okay, I wondered about that because she's been highly critical of Fluke.

Maybe she just got the attribs wrong.

Quaestor said...

That a protean figure like Doctor Johnson is tagged with the likes of Olympia Snowe and Sandra Fluke is a both amusing and alarming Amusing in the stark contrasts, Johnson, apart from his own accomplishments was the subject of the finest work of biography in the English language. What are Snowe and Fluke? A worn out senior senator with a back-bencher mentality, and a notorious parasite respectively -- some company for the great man of letters.

Alarming in that the grouping suggests a moral arrogance, an assumption that what is held to be true about the relationship of men and women and their place and function in society is as incontrovertible as geometry, and that the prevailing ethic in early 21st century America is necessarily superior to prevailing ethic in 18th century Great Britain. Doctor Johnson the harmless drudge might point out that in his day sexism was not even a word.

Quaestor said...

Alex wrote:
When Rush Limbaugh called Fluke a slut he was insulting & demeaning all women. Your mother, sister, daughter.

Is this a drollery or a trollery?

Rabel said...

From the announcement for the "Gala" at which Snowe made her statements:

"The panels will be followed by a cocktail reception, performance, and a live auction of a one-of-a-kind designer handbag made into a work of art by famed pop artist Peter Max."

No man-bag for the male guests?

"Immediately following the reception, premium ticket holders are invited to join our celebrity guests, elected officials, and other WCF supporters, at exlusive dinner parties in some of the most fabulous homes in Manhattan"

Fabulous, Dahling. Fabulous.
Smug, supercilious, hypocritical jackasses.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

The '70s feminists, including Snowe, are now just a bunch of old cats with the fur falling out.

My wife and I are full partners in both our marriage and our business. Our daughter is feisty but feminine.

Next slide, please.

machine said...

"BREAKING: Number of Women Who Support Republicans Dropping Rapidly;

Number of Republicans Who Support Women Still Zero"

Sloanasaurus said...

Its seems to me that conservatives are missing an argument with this contraception debate.

One of the risks of having the government provide contraception is that it will significantly reduce the market for competition for contraception. Thus, the offset to getting somthing for free is that you get a lot less choice. Thus, it is easier to imagine a future where contraception is free, but sucky for a lot of woman... your forced to take the one size fits all pill, even if 2% of you suffer anal bleeding as a result...

the wolf said...

If they showed up on Olympia's doorstep once per month to ask for cash to fund the sex lives of 30-year-old women, she might have a different viewpoint.

edutcher said...

Fen said...

When Rush Limbaugh called Fluke a slut he was insulting & demeaning all women. Your mother, sister, daughter

Really? I thought he was merely insulting women who sling their cunt around so much that they must sacrifice their planned trip to Europe to cover the cost of their sex life.


Actually, Ms Fluck went with Adam Mutterperl, whose father is a big Obama donor; although, if you look at him, I kinda doubt she needed birth control IYKWIM.

machine said...

"BREAKING: Number of Women Who Support Republicans Dropping Rapidly;

Number of Republicans Who Support Women Still Zero"


The mindless automaton strikes out again.

(damn, I knew some Lefty would be stupid enough to mention this again)

The poll is registered voters with a very skewed sample among women, 41% Demo, 24% Republican.

The Lefties must really be desperate to try something this obvious.

Lyssa said...

Fen said: Lyssa, whats stupid about it? I have to buy my own condoms. Why can't you pay for your own birth control?

I think ya misunderstood me, Fen. I do buy my own BC. Rep. Snowe's comment was the one that I was calling stupid. Because it was.

damikesc said...

Either reason should disqualify her from speaking to Congress.

Being an idiot and a liar will get you into the Speaker's chair of a Democratic House, Trey.

Lyssa said...

Machine said: Number of Republicans Who Support Women Still Zero"

You do not get to use My vagina to cloak your agenda. Just because I have a vagina does not mean that I need or want "support" of the sort that you and the Dems are so anxious to provide, nor do I want the strings attached.

The Democratic party thinks that it owns women. They think that we will do what they want, stay in their little boxes, repeat their party lines, and that they can treat us however they choose. Sadly, many individuals of my sex have given them every reason to think this - they've given a pass to true sexual preditors; they've patted the little women on the head and called them "brave" when they toed the line with no opposition (like Ms. Fluke, who faced none in her pretend Congressional address); they've sought to destroy any women who refuse to toe that line with lies, sexual taunts, and threats of violence. The women, and men, who fall for that, are morons. I am ashamed for them.

The people who have "supported" me, as not only a woman but as an individual, are the people who gave me a chance that I had earned, who encouraged me, who allowed me to take responsibility for my successes and failures, who held me to high standards. Many, in fact, most, of those people have been Republicans and/or Conservatives. Support did not come from people who gave me free stuff for having lady bits.

But just because I have a vagina, I'm not going to fall for your shit. I do not need the liberal's idea of "support."

TMink said...

Mike, when you are right you are right. I stand corrected.

Trey

TMink said...

Damn Lyssa, good on ya!

(What you said, not your vagina.)

Trey 8)

Lyssa said...

When Rush Limbaugh called Fluke a slut he was insulting & demeaning all women. Your mother, sister, daughter

Really? I thought he was merely insulting women who sling their cunt around so much that they must sacrifice their planned trip to Europe to cover the cost of their sex life.


Don't you understand, Fen? In the liberal's mind, we're all the same. If you can't see anything but sex (or race, or orientation), you can't accept that one insult could be situation specific.

damikesc said...

Lyssa, sadly, A LOT of groups have gone into the Democratic camp like that. That is why they can smear Bachmann and Palin with no concern nor be asked to condemn Progressives who do the same.

It is why Democratic Jewish outreach leaders can call their fellow team members "Jewbags" and have nothing done to them. A conservative doing the same would be front page news for weeks.

What I don't get is WHY these groups do that. How does it help anybody to basically tell a party "no matter what you do, we will vote for you"?

Why should a Republican do ANYTHING for black folks or feminists? What is in it for them? People are instinctively self-interested and doing the right thing isn't nearly as powerful an incentive as staying in office.

The Jewish community and black community have utterly marginalized themselves. Women seem eager to do the same.

I don't get it.

Roger J. said...

Senator Snowe's comments notwithstanding, it appears that Ms Fluke's notoriety has a half life considerably less than the unfortunate Cindy Sheehan. Whatever happened to her, BTW?

I remember the halcyon days when every day the iraq war body count was touted by the media. When was the last time the MSM published body count totals for Mr Obama's war in A-stan?

Fluke was a tool, and not a particularly sharp one.

Lyssa said...

damikesc, I've asked myself the same question, and I don't really have an answer. I suppose that the allure of free stuff and getting to rest on your victimhood is greater for many then the allure of (and risk of) freedom, and that such is human nature. I have little doubt that white males would do it if they could, as well. I suppose that all I can do is fight tooth and nail against it, and prove that I don't need their sick notions of "support."

That said, fortunately, the demographic of "women" is different from other demographics because we are not isolated. The majority of women are going to form relationships with men - they can't live in a cocoon in the same way races and ethnicities do. For that reason, I don't think that we will ever see women become as given over to liberalism as blacks, jews, and gays (as demographics). Of course, this is reason number one why big gov't keeps striving to make fathers irrelevant.

It makes me sad.

Simon said...

You know, it really is surprising, because I feel like adults would feel silly pretending to not know the difference between a debate over the legality of purchasing contraception and a mandate to insist that third parties buy your contraception for you. Fancy!

Bender said...

You've come a long way baby!

I wish we were retro, to a time before vaginas had monologues in public, and the sex lives of 30-year-old children were none of my business.

John M Auston said...

The difference is, Johnson thought he was being quite funny.

Not just "thought".

beast said...

Frankly i find the idea of commending anyone for attempting to subvert the actual committees of Congress by appearing at a faux partisan show meeting kind of absurd

beast said...

Frankly i find the idea of commending anyone for attempting to subvert the actual committees of Congress by appearing at a faux partisan show meeting kind of absurd

BarryD said...

Olympia Snowe is merely expressing concisely what feminism has become.

She is also expressing what our conception of adulthood has become.

Both are quite ugly.

A 30-year-old woman is to be commended as if she is a junior high school student giving a speech to Congress. Her views are not to be criticized, nor is she to be held to adult standards.

AJ Lynch said...

Snowe shows that she lives in a world where no on questions what she says.

bagoh20 said...

"this takes me back to the 1700s, "

I'm not flirting; I'm being honest when I say: You look great for 300.

ricpic said...

Johnson understood that woman's to the bone selfishness makes her unfit to preach, period.

Penny said...

Ms. Snowe was somewhere between 3 and 13 in those "retro 50's". I doubt she was engaging in, or even listening to, any debates on birth control.

So why did she say "retro 50's" then?

Perhaps to get the young ladies in the audience to conjure "Mad Men"?

Mad Men! OMG WAR ON WOMEN!

Penny said...

Ha ha

Just joking there.

I'm sure she just misspoke and got her 50's and 60's mixed up...

Because everybody knows those two decades were so similar that it's easy to do.

Right?

Wally Kalbacken said...

Olympia - take a hike!

leslyn said...

"On comes a gay dame of manners & tone so fine & haughty that all defer to her as to a countess, & she seems the dictator of society."
--Waldo

Rusty said...

John M Auston said...
The difference is, Johnson thought he was being quite funny.

Not just "thought".

So true. He was a wit. Unlike- Alex said...
You know it's a sad state of affairs when the Catholics aren't allowed to be Catholic. Poor oppressed Catholics. But they had to know they had it coming after 1500 years of oppressing the fuck out of everyone else.

who is a wit by half.

leslyn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
leslyn said...

"August 17, 1838. Life is a pretty tragedy, especially for women. On comes a gay dame of manners & tone so fine & haughty that all defer to her as to a countess, & she seems the dictator of society. Sit down by her, & talk of her own life in earnest, & she is some stricken soul with care & sorrow at her vitals, & wisdom of charity cannot see any way of escape for her from remediless evils. She envies her companion in return, until she also disburdens into her ear the story of her misery, as deep and hopeless as her own."

--Waldo

leslyn said...

@ Rusty:

Lovely.