Writes Maureen Dowd in the New York Times.
Paterno, who has cast himself for 46 years as a moral compass teaching his “kids” values, testified that he did not call the police at the time either. The family man who had faced difficult moments at Brown University as a poor Italian with a Brooklyn accent must have decided that his reputation was more important than justice.In case you've forgotten, the story Paterno heard — according to the grand jury report — was that McQueary, a graduate assistant coach, saw "a naked boy about 10 years old 'with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.'"
Now, let's remember how the New York Times reported on the Penn State story a couple days ago. I wrote:
NYT says Joe Paterno "not implicated of wrongdoing in a grand jury report."The NYT had trouble facing up to the reality that Paterno was implicated in terrible moral wrongs. It's good to see Dowd's column attacking the entire power structure at Penn State. All are to blame. A man who was seen raping children was harbored and protected and empowered for over a decade. Read the entire timeline summarized by Dowd. There's no way Paterno could cut himself off from responsibility once he had knowledge.
That's buried in the last paragraph of today's article — by Mark Viera — on the Penn State scandal, followed by this paean to Paterno:
Paterno helped propel Penn State to the top tiers of college football, and the university had one of the most pristine images in the sport, largely thanks to Paterno and his success in 46 seasons as head coach.But the indictment did allege facts that implicated Paterno!
UPDATE, 9:56 a.m.: Paterno retirement announced.
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156 comments:
being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.'"
I believe the proper term is "rape."
A man who was seen raping children
And I see that you know that as well.
Cost him everything.
What about the "in-between?"
First, he saw "something" and ran home.
In James Joyce's (personal) story: "The Artist As A Young Man," ... Joyce talks about cutting school with a friend. And, "seeing a priest doing something awful at the park." There's a "distance" between Joyce. And, the priest.
Later, between Ireland. And, Joyce.
Joyce was a great artist.
That was the best he could do with the pedophilia that ran rampant in the Catholic Church.
So is Sandusky being persecuted for his genes? I mean who would ever CHOOSE to rape a child? It must be the genes. Pedophobes!
Sad way to see JoePa go out.
He's a good man.
I read Mark Tupper regularly. He's the beat reporter for the Decatur Herald-Reviews coverage of U of IL sports. He had this to say:
For a couple years now I have avoided the too-easy temptation to poke fun at an aging legend of a head football coach who gradually has been disconnecting from the hands-on, day-to-day operation of his program.
When Illinois was at Penn State on Oct. 29, we all saw 84-year-old Joe Paterno relegated to the press box, glasses off, head resting on his hand, no headset and little visible emotion. I'm just being honest when I say that Paterno looked like he was ready for a nap.
Perhaps JoePa just held on too long.
Now, onto the main part of the program... knights in white armor expressing REVULSION.
I won't read it. Utter hysteria. The abuse is terrible. The braying and general jackassery of the hysterics who will fill up this comments section is just about as bad.
How come the 10 year old boy didn't tell his parents?
Well, we know he couldn't tell his priest! If he was Catholic. There ya go. The secret.
Isn't it possible the SILENCE was to protect the kid?
Sadusky is a HOMOSEXUAL.
It's a dangerous community!
Secretive.
And, maybe, what's missing from the story ... is a conversation with the kid's parents?
HOW DID THE KID GET THERE?
Had did all the clothes come off?
How do you know the head of the FBI wasn't queer?
A 28 year old didn't call the police on that?!
I'm surprised the Gray Lady is taking a stand against NAMBLA.
Doesn't that make them homophobic?
"Teaching values" is BULLSHIT.
It was once called "The Stork Brought You.
Then, a doll company made a fortune riffing on this theme of Cabbage Patch kids. Each carried a birth certificate that was different.
I don't know why our president did't produce his with Barack Hussein Obama printed as the kid's name.
Okay. The doll company never included last names.
And, given how I wouldn't allow my temperature to be taken when I was a kid. (Because thermometers were rectal.) I'm wondering how the 10 year old kid, wasn't screaming his head off in terror?
You can penetrate the anus of a child without causing terror?
How did sons keep this information from their fathers?
Were their fathers so sure that the "stork brought you story" was so convincing ... they didn't want to tell their sons about sex?
There is no defending how Paterno and Penn State handled obvious pedophilia when it literally hit them in the face. It became an exercise in circle-the-wagons and look out for Number 1, as it has in some many other institutions.
The reality of the crime is so gross that it's hard to understand that reaction. In part, I think, it's an exercise in seeking refuge in 'proper procedure' as a CYA protection device -- legal duties used as an excuse to avoid obvious moral responsibility. The narrow duty under PA law may well have been to report the crime to one's superiors in the university, leaving it to them to make the decision what to do.
Yet it's hard to believe that the actors in this sordid drama consciously thought through their own actions in those terms. Other than Sandusky, who comes across as a sick monster, the others seem to be mostly small minded and fearful rather than actively evil. But that's just a way of saying that, here as elsewhere, people have a talent for fooling themselves.
In which states would it have been legal to stop the rape with deadly force?
fire them all, prosecute the ones you can, shame the rest
I admit I had trouble accepting this too. Penn State had always been one of the few programs that graduated most football players and did instill values other than just winning at any cost.
The whole thing is sad and disgusting. Whatever they and Paterno accomplished has been overshadowed and ruined by this.
Why did the "graduate student" (I think a former 6'3" quarterback/ie. athlete) not step in physically to stop the act? I don't get it. Sometimes you wonder what you would have done, but who would not have taken that action? I don't get that at all.
He's a good man.
maybe paterno once was a good man. maybe, on balance, paterno did more good than harm. but now, assuming the revelations are factual, he is not a good man. now, he's a shameful coward, and he deserves what may happen to him.
Why did the "graduate student" (I think a former 6'3" quarterback/ie. athlete) not step in physically to stop the act? I don't get it.
I think only a person who grew up in State College can understand the inaction. I would say shock and struck dumbfounded and reeling.
What I don't understand is why he (apparently) didn't do anything afterwards. Were it me, that would be a weight on my soul.
Note that I said apparently. For all we know -- and we know very little -- he may have.
I'm no Paterno apologist, but all the outrage about the graduate student not acting to stop the incident can potentially be redirected into a defense of Paterno.
Put yourself in JoePa's shoes hearing that story the next day...shock and disbelief would be my reaction. Obviously you hope it's not true. You'd want to get to the bottom of it, but at the same time, how can you trust the testimony of someone who supposedly observed that but did nothing to stop it?
Should JoePa have called the cops? It depends on if he trusted the person who reported the potential crime. Every allegation does not deserve a full criminal investigation, especially if it comes from someone whose story is hard to believe based on their own supposed actions, or lack thereof.
We don't know all the facts here, yet. Perhaps the incident was investigated internally and the allegation could not be corroborated, or were expressly denied by the alleged victim? If so, on those tenuous grounds, do you still involve the police?
Paterno didn't do nothing. He told the AD, dumped it in his lap. At that point Sandusky no longer worked for Paterno because Sandusky had retired in 1999 (which raises another question that's been nagging at me in this story: why did Sandusky, a career assistant to Paterno, and considered to be Paterno's heir-apparent whenever Paterno finally decided to retire, retire himself suddenly at age 55? What was that all about?). But Sandusky no longer worked for Joe in 2002. When told what the GA saw, Joe told the AD. Where Joe blew it is when the AD did virtually nothing about it, Joe should have taken it to the next level.
Paterno did report Sandusky to his superior management, so the news reports say he is legally clear, just morally blameworthy.
His superiors howver, are both morally blameworthy and legally chargeable, since they were at the top of the foodchain at the college.
Yet, all the hoopla seems to be about Paterno, and the college heads are hardly mentioned.
Why is that?
Foucault would have seen nothing at all wrong with the scenario with the boy. Foucault is now the most frequently cited philosopher in the humanities. What's the big deal? He would ask. And the legions of his fans would sieg heil.
I think Paterno and his minions should be dragged to hell.
What's suprising to me is that the nation is suprised this happened and was passed over by the coaches. Hello?? Does anyone read the papers in college towns?? Do you watch the conduct of the teams? Assults, drunkedness, drugs, rapes . . . . and people are suprised by the rape of a couple of boys? Since this event occured there have been thousands of charges against college team members, and now folks are shocked?? How about this as a solution: players are thrown out of the school for these choices rather than coddled. Coaches are fired if their team gets out of hand. Teams are accountable for their actions and the actions of their members. Until then, this will be simply another sad event in the continuing devolution of college (and professional) sports.
Agree. Anyone that was in the chain of these events is to blame. How Paterno could escape when they others couldn't, would seem to indicate how powerful the football program/university system was.
They all decided to deal with it quietly, lest the program be tarnished.
Paterno's in a Damning Inferno
Shielding A Pedaphelic Ass-Colonel
JoePaw's Faux Pas
Was a Guffaw at the Law
And His Legacy's Now Piss in the Urinal.
Paterno was told about it the day after it happened by Mike McQueary, a graduate assistant coach who testified that he went into the locker room one Friday night and heard rhythmic slapping noises.
Maybe Paterno thought what McQueary heard was just the Low Spark of High Heeled Boys?
But it wasn't the bullet that laid him to rest was
The low spark of high-heeled boys
If I gave you everything that I owned and asked for nothing in return
Would you do the same for me as I would for you?
Or take me for a ride, and strip me of everything including my pride
But spirit is something that no one destroys
And the sound that I'm hearing is only the sound
The low spark of high-heeled boys
the college heads are hardly mentioned.
Why is that?
They have allies who are blowing flames on the Paternoblame and tamping down the Spanierblame is my guess.
I think Paterno's retirement statement is well-crafted. It reads as something from someone who loves Penn State and who is concerned for the victims.
So--as I've said several times over the past week--"The UW should send a notice to Penn State that Bucky will forfeit if Joe Paterno shows up at the game." Does the UW have the 'moral courage' to do so?
SaintShouting, "Great men" protect children. Egotistical coaches, bishops, priests, protect their legacy. Sycophants and religious zealots protect the egomaniacal men because they feel inadequate or have much worse demons.
You've been outed dude. The first rule when you're in a hole is to stop digging. Whatever cred you had here[minimal @ best] has gone down the river, just like your hero joepa. Unfortunately, he sold kids down the river first.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
To me the sad is, had Paterno gone “over the AD’s head” in 2002 to the police, sure the Administration would have been angry. BUT, “He’s Joe Paterno” sold have shielded him. And after Sandusky was put away, and the hoopla died down, when Paterno stepped down this year, as really he should just for age reasons, people would remember this episode with PRIDE…”When Paterno learned of his friends actions, he IMMEDIATELY acted” and folks would be citing Joe Pa as an example of WHAT to do, not what NOT to do…
And that’s the pity, for Paterno…worrying about how it looked THEN ensures that now when we look at Paterno we will have to confront this issue NOW. Instead of a badge of honour it’s a badge of shame.
In which states would it have been legal to stop the rape with deadly force?
That question can only be answered after the fact.
That was the best he could do with the pedophilia that ran rampant in the Catholic Church.
rampant
Stupid.
But it is Carol, after all.
MMan and KLD: Change the facts slightly, and then try to understand the reactions of the various players. Imagine that the grad student had seen Sandusky knifing a student. If it were that kind of incident, it's hard to imagine anyone not pulling out their cellphone and immediately calling 911, while also trying to stop the crime from continuing.
For the witness to the crime, there is nothing complicated about the imperative to report it to someone who can stop the harm from continuing or being repeated. Yet the grad student didn't do that, even though he fully recognized that what he had witnessed was clearly a crime of the grossest sort. None of this poses a trick question, and it's blinking at reality to pretend that it does.
But often people act just like the grad student (the Kitty Genvese case comes to mind). Sometimes it's the "don't get involved, close your eyes" thing. Here, the grad student didn't do that -- he reported the crime but only to his father and Paterno. That implies that he recognized an obligation to do something and acted (belatedly) on it. It's the timidity and smallness of the response despite that recognition that makes the motivations and psychology hard to figure out.
The responses of Paterno and the edu-bureaucrats are easier cases to figure out and so less interesting.
I normally won't read anything written by MoDo, but I have to admit that when she stays out of the partisan politics she can really throw some weight.
Good article.
Paterno is retiring, but it will be at the end of the season. He needs to be fired, now.
Well, I suppose it's possible the UW won't have the 'moral courage' to forfeit the Penn State game because of sexual misconduct by it's own athletic department?
Ten years old. Good God. At that age, most kids barely understand regular sex. I can't imagine.
"Yet, all the hoopla seems to be about Paterno, and the college heads are hardly mentioned.
Why is that?"
Hagar, Joe Pa runs the place. Outranked in title, maybe, but nobody outranks him in reality. This became his horror as soon as he was told. It's why experienced politicians and leaders have buffers to provide plausable denial about knowledge of facts that, if discovered and publicized later, would have demanded action at the time. Joe Pa and the university hoped this would go away quietly rather than doing the right thing then. They were right about the quiet for 11 years, but now they are exposed for their horrible judgment.
What we don't know yet is whether the institutional indifference carried over to lack of concern for the child victim of this particular rape or if anything was done to prevent future rapes by Sandusky. We know there will be many more victims coming forward now, so this will all come out now.
Joe Pa owns this and deserves the fallout.
Mike McQueary, the graduate coach who saw the rape and called his dad rather than the police, is an assistant coach at PSU. IMHO he ought to be fired immediately.
As should Paterno. And the administrators who covered this up.
A 28 year old is a man. There's no excuse. None. I would think that rather than inaction, the problem for the witness would be controlling himself enough to not kill the rapist on the spot in a fit of rage.
What has happened to people?
Should JoePa have called the cops? It depends on if he trusted the person who reported the potential crime. Every allegation does not deserve a full criminal investigation, especially if it comes from someone whose story is hard to believe based on their own supposed actions, or lack thereof.
We don't know all the facts here, yet. Perhaps the incident was investigated internally and the allegation could not be corroborated, or were expressly denied by the alleged victim? If so, on those tenuous grounds, do you still involve the police?
Is this serious or satirical? If satirical, pardon my laying into it now. This is ridiculous. This isn't an internal investigation of some office problem. A relatively sane person tells you he saw a man rape a child, you call the police. Period. You do not do internal investigations of child rape.
I'd like to hear it from Paterno, but my guess is that he simply believed that McQueary was mistaken.
We've had a case in our town where a very popular middle school teacher - a favorite of both of my kids - was found to be a pederast. It is VERY difficult to believe that someone you have known and liked for many years rapes children. Althouse's use of the passive voice, "Paterno...had knowledge" begs the question of his moral responsibility. He had heard the report of a witness testifying that someone he had known and respected for decades was a rapist. He took the report seriously enough to relay it to the AD. I want to hear him say what he really believed at the time (or at least what he tells himself now that he believed at the time).
Every adult who knew about this and did not call the police should be fired. Some should face criminal charges as appropriate by law.
"Yet, all the hoopla seems to be about Paterno, and the college heads are hardly mentioned.
Why is that?"
Seriously Hagar, if you don't know why that is, then you know nothing about college football let alone Penn State.
Paterno is Penn State, yeah he may have superiors but he is the tallest hog in the trough there. That's why he is mentioned. The man heard the charge and basically passed it up the line when really he could have grouped the AD, President and whomever else into a room and dictated what they were going to do.
What I don't understand here is what the graduate student was thinking. How in the hell can you only report what you saw to your old football coach? And then how could Paterno just pass it on. Truly a huge moral failing, at least given the details as we now know them.
Joe Paterno should be allowed to just retire when he feels like it, he should be fired from the University in shame now.
AllenS, You're correct he should be gone yesterday. But, joepa[capital letters no longer deserved] has called the shots @ PSU for decades. He obviously still is. Remember how cardinal law stayed on. He didn't get the boot until parishoners stopped putting $ in the basket. Nothing gets the Vaticans attention like $!
I propose adding the naked, abused, 10-year-old boy at the feet of Joe Paterno's bronze statue. Clinging to the coach's leg crying for respite and mercy.
Penn State will be sued. Penn taxpayers will pay.
Does college football turn people into brainless fools? Some people seem to be arguing that.
You just don't understand. College football world is like North Korea in its leader worship.
If that's the case, why?
People today really are crazy. Where's Crack? I could use a good macho response read right about now.
The blue wall of silence. Liberals are forever railing against cops who don't rat each other out. The only thing that is more offensive is ex-Commies who give up names of their compatriots before HUAC. It is far better to betray your country than to betray a friend. Sex offenses: Democrats and Republicans show an equal facility to rally round the flag or flag pole of their accused champion.....If you're on the inside, group dynamics are a powerful force, but if you're not within that gravitational force field, the group dynamics are equally easy to condemn. Catholic prelates and these university officials are not evil people, but look at their works. The moral choices seem so clear cut, but these people did the wrong thing.
Retirement?
I want his ass in prison.
Every single person who knew, should have known or had anything to do with the coverup needs to go to prison.
And no. Penn State's big pockets should not be used to get them out of prison.
"Freeman Hunt said...
Is this serious or satirical? If satirical, pardon my laying into it now. This is ridiculous. This isn't an internal investigation of some office problem. A relatively sane person tells you he saw a man rape a child, you call the police. Period. You do not do internal investigations of child rape."
How does a "relatively sane" person see that happening and not stop it? How do you know that there isn't a long history of this "relatively sane" person having a axe to grind regarding the person accused? What my mind revolts against is the belief that there are certain things which one person can tell another that absolutely require that person to phone the authorities, regardless of what other information the second person might have or their belief as to the authenticity of what they've been told. I reject requiring that knee jerk response from a party that was not witness to the alleged actions. Crucify the grad student, if you like. He is damned by his own admissions, but I still think there are ways that JoePa could be exonerated here as justice runs its course and I don't like the rush to assume he must have done something wrong.
You guys are right about one thing; I do not understand college football. Nor do I wish to.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
KLDavis must be one of Paterno’s relatives…Dood/doodette someone you know, and work with, walks into your office and says, “Frank, is bangin’ 10 year olds in the office conference room.” It’s either the Big Lie or the Absolute Truth…You don’t just call the HR Department and “alert” them….
I totally agree with Dowd this time. I would only add that the grad student, and many grad students and employees, are serfs in College Land, not just Paterno Land. I'm sure he thought, "Who will believe me, a mere serf? Can I even believe it?"
Colleges have an internal quasi-judicial system that serves mostly to cover up crimes and misdemeanors. After all, their "citizens" are really still children. They can get away with it. Rape, embezzlement, fake nooses on trees -- the men in grey move in and bury it all. And the money from the state and from misty-eyed alums keeps flowing.
Paterno is an accessory after the fact, is that what he could be imprisoned for? What actual crime did he commit? I think what happened is disgraceful and the persons involved should burn in hell. But in this kingdom, I think we need to think in terms of actual crimes, and whether it is possible to prosecute Paterno. If you want him prison, is it for accessory after the fact, or some other?
One wonders about college sports programs in general. How many criminals are we willing to put up with for a winning team? In John Irving's Hotel New Hampshire there is a rapist quarterback on the high school football team.
No one's willing to prosecute because it would ruin the name of the football team, which apparently must be protected at all costs. But these coverups just make the situation worse.
I hope Paterno spends his retirement in prison if he is indeed an accessory after the fact.
If I didn't already think I'd prefer my sons stay as far away as possible from collegiate sports, you all have done a most excellent job of convincing me.
I've no relation to anyone in the story, nor do I have an interest in Penn State (football or otherwise).
My interest is in the rule of law and due process. Paterno may well be guilty of crimes, but that should be far from clear to any "reasonably sane" observer.
If you're ready to crucify Paterno now, think about how you'd like your boss to act if someone walked into their office tomorrow and told them they'd seen you doing the things alleged in the story, but had done nothing to stop you.
Now, now, Freeman; just stay away from sports with "ball" in the name, and they will probably be all right.
Now, now, Freeman; just stay away from sports with "ball" in the name, and they will probably be all right.
Heh. Excepting golf, of course.
If you're ready to crucify Paterno now, think about how you'd like your boss to act if someone walked into their office tomorrow and told them they'd seen you doing the things alleged in the story, but had done nothing to stop you.
Obviously no one would like to be falsely accused, but most anyone would, I think, expect to have a chat with police if someone at work accused him of child rape.
and Paterno apparently is not guilty of any prosecutable crime as he reported it to the Athletic Director, which for some reason is all that he was legally required to do.
A ten year old boy was raped (actually, at least two were raped) and the instinct of all the adults involved was not to stop the rapist, but to make sure it remained private.
These people would not have acted in the same way had it been a stranger raping a child they knew.
The "10 year old boy" is no longer ten years old. He's an ADULT.
Just like the ADULTS, back in 1991, that began suing the Catholic Church for the sexual abuse delivered by priests.
Sandusky doesn't have to "pay" now?
Only the coach WHO WASN'T THERE. But was "told" by his assistant ... that his assistant saw this behavior. And, presumed the kid was willing to get naked. Because he was promised "free tickets" to the Penn football games.
Go back in time, a bit. The Catholic Church KNEW (including the current Pope who also "knew") that priests were "deflowering" young boys. Schtupping them in the ass.
Didn't moms SEE blood on the kid's underwear? How do you avoid NOT TELLING your family pediatrician IMMEDIATELY ... that you saw some blood stains on your young boy's underpants?
This whole story smells.
Cooking the books. Where there was NO PARENTAL supervision occurring. (Imagine, too, that the kid had to come home with the free tickets.) Dad asked no questions?
Maybe, football is a religion, too?
I don't think an 82 year old man is guilty. Because? IF the cops were called in, "guess who" your witness was? It was the assistant coach! Who could probably describe a football pass better than he could describe what he saw in the shower.
The Penn State-Bucky game here in Madison on 11/26 will be Paterno's final regular-season game as a coach. I wonder how he'll be received here.
Unless PSU fires him first, which I doubt they'll do. Even if PSU were inclined to fire him, which I doubt, all they have to do now is say they're "investigating" the situation and delay it until the New Year, when the season will be over and he can retire as scheduled.
If I didn't already think I'd prefer my sons stay as far away as possible from collegiate sports, you all have done a most excellent job of convincing me.
Preferences with kids only get you so far. All you can really do is teach them to be good people and know when things aren't what they should be.
If my kid walked in on one of his favorite coaches doing this, I like to think he or she would put a stop to it, and call the police.
Predators are excellent at selecting both their victims and their enablers.
With Herman Cain, blonde women are coming forward.
When the scandal broke for the Catholic Church, lots (thousands), of ADULT MALES came forward. With lawyers.
It cost the Vatican plenty. Nope. It didn't stop this Pope from "getting ahead."
But secrets were once very well kept.
Firing an 82 year old man for something he never saw ... seems to be an outrageous solution.
Where are the ADULTS now ... whom Sandusky raped when they were ten?
No memorable football games to report? No stories on how happy the kids' dads were? REALLY.
carol herman-
There was no parental supervision because Sandusky had set himself up a charity for boys from broken homes.
I still want to know what was behind Sandusky's "retirement" in 1999. Something fishy there.
It wasn't just the graduate assistant. The New York Times story about the scandal said another employee witnessed him performing oral sex on a young boy who was "pinned" against the shower wall. Didn't step in and stop it. Went to his supervisor and told him he had seen men killed in Korea, but had just witnessed the most sickening thing in his life. Nothing was done. What the hell?
You hate to judge someone because you never know what you would do in those circumstances, but I would like to think I would step in to try to stop a sexual assault. I would like to think anyone would, but evidently, I would be wrong.
Think about it.
These men all knew Sandusky surrounded himself with young boys from broken homes.
They knew he raped a young boy.
They knew those boys at his charity were sitting ducks.
They did nothing.
Sandusky had unlimited access to young boys from broken homes through that charity. Those boys had no parents to seek help from. They probably had a parent no different than Sandusky. Sad.
Preferences with kids only get you so far. All you can really do is teach them to be good people and know when things aren't what they should be.
I agree. That's why I'm saying "prefer." You teach all that you can, but there are still things you'd prefer but have no say over.
For example, I would also prefer that none of my children become pop stars. Fortunately the likelihood of that one is quite small.
sydney-
I think it says a lot about the culture at Penn State that all the adults who saw children being molested were afraid it would be bad *for them* if they intervened.
Pedrino isn't the predator!
Just an 82 year old guy whom others are jealous of.
Don't know what set off the Herman Cain gossipy tattle-telling ... but it wasn't done to "protect women."
If you can understand the motives of the press ... you'd grant Pedrino lots of slack.
Back in 1984 nobody spoke of young boys being molested.
And, when they were alter boys ... they worried that their parents would get angry at them! And, they'd deny the priest were doing anything except "blessing."
To unravel this "sensation?"
You have to ask yourselves WHY boys wouldn't even tell their dads.
(Okay. Maybe a Catholic kid would go into the Confessional. Oy vey.)
"Firing an 82 year old man for something he never saw ... seems to be an outrageous solution."
Carol, this "man" is a Penn State institution. Almost every person aware of Penn State would almost certainly know who Paterno is. He had the power to stop this or at the very least do something more than just notify the Athletic Director. His firing is certainly not the only solution, not be a long shot, but he shouldn't be allowed to dictate when he wants to step down.
I would be fine with a witness reporting to supervisors if the report went like this:
"Sandusky is lying dead in the shower because I shot him when found him raping a kid in there."
I suspect that we all like to think that if we witnessed child rape, we would take immediate physical action to intervene (given a single rapist not in possession fo a lethal weapon) -- and maybe some of us would, while others would follow some other course.
Maybe criticism of a supposedly strapping former jock who did nothing to physically intervene is heightened to help validate our beliefs about how we would have acted.
Also, Maureen Dowd should have had more conveiction in her alliteration. Why write "a serf in the powerfully paternal Paternoland", when you could go for "a peon in the powerfully paternal Paternoland"?
Who is Pedrino?
Paterno's an accessory after the fact. He shouldn't be immune from prosecution because of his role in winning games. All the more so he should be made an example. Obama should say something. No one should be immune from prosecution. He's an accessory after the fact, and should die in prison.
Who is Pedrino?
Descendant of Paterno's ancestor who immigrated to Spain.
and maybe some of us would, while others would follow some other course.
Perhaps we would follow some other course. But when we looked back at the fullness of our inaction, I think we'd be right to accept the fact that we do not belong in a position of leadership of young men.
Descendant of Paterno's ancestor who immigrated to Spain.
Then he should have expected this Inquisition!
emigrated, I should have written.
Then he should have expected this Inquisition!
Heh.
So is Sandusky going to be inaugurated at the NAMBLA hall of fame for this? If Paterno knew and it appears he did, then he's just as culpable. In fact, I would also go after the 28 year old graduate coaching student for not intervening in the crime against this 10 year old. The NCAA should get involved now and basically shut down Penn State football program. Too bad, so sad. They hid this for years, turned the other way, and allowed it to continue knowing what Sandusky was doing. Why should Penn State be allowed to have a football program that makes $70 million a year on the rumps of innocent boys?
I'd say at this point if the NCAA doesn't act, then they will have lost all credibility.
I stopped a man from raping a young boy when I was about 10 or 12. I threatened to stab him with my Cub Scout knife. The police were called and the 18 year old IIRC was arrested. I remember giving the cop my statement.
Around 1980, I was making out with a girl in my car in a bar parking lot when we heard screaming and noticed a man on top of a woman beating the shit out of her. By the time I got there he had ripped the shirt and bra off of her. Since I was drunk I was unable to kick the guys ass, but the girl I was with stayed with the girl until the police arrived. We both gave out statements and they the girl had it was her husband. They still prosecuted him.
One other year, I caught a purse snatcher.
This whole story sickens me.
Lucien said...
I suspect that we all like to think that if we witnessed child rape, we would take immediate physical action to intervene (given a single rapist not in possession fo a lethal weapon) -- and maybe some of us would, while others would follow some other course.
You better believe it. Any man or woman who witnesses a crime like rape or incest against a child by anyone should act immediately to either try and stop it or call the police to intervene. There is no grey here. This is black and white. The guy saw Sandusky raping a 10 year old and ran away to call his father for advice on what to do.
wv = bumsor = you have got to be kidding. lol
I'd say at this point if the NCAA doesn't act, then they will have lost all credibility.
If they'd have been caught hiding some illegal tattoos, the NCAA would be all over it.
We both gave out statements and they the girl had it was her husband
should have read --
We both gave our statements and the girl said it was her husband
"If they'd have been caught hiding some illegal tattoos, the NCAA would be all over it."
Well, not really. They would be sure to impose the harshest penalties after the University and the football players were able to play out the season.
So wait, maybe the NCAA has already given its punishment.
Then he should have expected this Inquisition!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
There are very few things as starkly evil as the rape of a child. The existence of a child rapist is troubling enough, but that such a mutant can achieve a position of trust and respectability is doubly so. And that other people of trust and respectability, whose visible lives are so admirable, can be suborned to cover up the crimes of this mutant raises the immorality to dizzying heights.....A child rapist is a mutant, some random variation of evil. But all these other people are us. It's frightening to observe how easy it is to coerce acquiescence in evil in otherwise good people.
Freeman, NO GUNS ON CAMPUS!! Your comment would also apply to Virginia Tech. However, in this case a gun wouldn't be needed..just a fist or a Louisville Slugger.
So is Sandusky being persecuted for his genes? I mean who would ever CHOOSE to rape a child? It must be the genes. Pedophobes!
This is just annoying.
Aside from few random freak types like those in NAMBLA, I don't know of any gays, or anyone else for that matter, asserting that pedophilia is genetic and should be excused for their behavior.
"Apples and Oranges"
Shouting,
I still don't get what you're on about.
I for one am heartened that people are still sickened and outraged when events like this come to light, and that we haven't become numbed to it. Or excusing of it.
The abuse is terrible. The braying and general jackassery of the hysterics who will fill up this comments section is just about as bad.
"Just about as bad" on what planet. Jesus.
Paterno's reputation is ruined, what a selfish, gutless, weak POS. I hope that PoSU pays hundreds of millions in settlements to the rape victims.
you people make me sick. this gossip is worse than the media attack on paterno.
stick to the facts of the case-mcqueary saw the incident, joe was informed by mcqueary, joe informed everyone that needed to know including the police. his only crime was not going beyond his duty and making sure the police properly did their job.
don't you dare try to slander the character of a person you couldn't quite possibly comprehend. and the day anyone takes morality lessons from maureen dowd...
I haven't read all the comments yet and so this is just piling on, but I don't care.
What in the HELL was that GA doing? What he saw and he did NOTHING? That is absolutely beyond my comprehension. He went home? Oh My God.
This is mindbogglingly awful. And the first person who could have helped that poor child went home and called his dad. I have two boys. I would KILL anyone who laid a hand on them and that goes double for anyone who could have helped and ran away. I don't care if it isn't lawful.
As to why the kid was not screaming, think of this. You people act like you don't know anything about sex or remember your childhood.
Sex feels good. Also attention from an important adult feels good. Children who are sexually abused feel a combination of guilt and pleasure. They know they are supposed to think it is wrong, but it still feels good. I personally know of abusers who said that if you tell on me, I won't do this to you anymore. This was enough to keep it secret. Child sex abuse is complicated.
Class factotum said...
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Bring out the comfy chair!!!
AllenS,
I had a related experience. When I was about 10 years old, an adult was on top of my little brother, violently beating his head against a hard tile floor. It looked like the perp was going to kill my little brother. I was much smaller and weaker (though faster) than the adult and went into the kitchen, grabbed a fork and threw the fork at the perp. The fork stuck in the temple of the perp. The perp's head slowly rotated (with the fork still stuck in the head) to look at me, completely astonished. My little brother scrambled away and was saved.
You people act like you don't know anything about sex or remember your childhood.
Sex feels good.
You know, I don't think ten year old being ass-raped by an adult man's penis would feel very good.
The kid didn't scream because he figured this was his fate.
As to why the kid was not screaming, think of this. You people act like you don't know anything about sex or remember your childhood.
Sex feels good.
I'm not sure if the anal rape of a ten year old falls into the category of "feeling good." Perhaps he was just terrified into silence.
I don't think being fucked in the ass would feel good, especially if you are 10 years old.
Now other kids, whose bellies he blew on and who he rubbed down with soap? Yes, I'm sure their bodies gave them very confusing messages.
The same thing often happens with adult women and men who are sexually molested.
"don't you dare try to slander the character of a person you couldn't quite possibly comprehend. and the day anyone takes morality lessons from maureen dowd..."
Res ipsa loquitur.
What happened to "I saw boy against wall being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky" and I tackled the perp and beat the crap out of him before I called the cops? Just go and tell Daddy? How about at least screaming Rape!!! and stopping the abuse?
If your adult son called to say that he saw a kid getting raped and wanted to know what to do, wouldn't you beat yourself up for the rest of your life wondering where you'd gone wrong with him?
"I guess I forgot to cover this with you explicitly when you were younger, but if you see someone being raped and you are capable of saving the person, DO IT!"
"joe informed everyone that needed to know including the police. "
where did you hear this because this is the first I've heard of it?
If I were a community organizer, and if Paterno actually showed up for the UW/Penn game, I'd have the spectators, the players, the coaches, the mascot, hell, even the hotdog vendors, ready to stand up and turn their backs the minute he appeared. And stay that way until he left.
But that's just me.
If your adult son called to say that he saw a kid getting raped and wanted to know what to do, wouldn't you beat yourself up for the rest of your life wondering where you'd gone wrong with him?
If the answer you gave him was, "Call Coach", you probably lack that kind of self-awareness.
I know I keep saying this, but that so many at Penn State thought it would be bad for them to stop these rapes says everything about the atmosphere at Penn State.
but that so many at Penn State thought it would be bad for them to stop these rapes
I have seen nobody involved in this ghastly episode claim this.
"poor boy with Brooklyn accent at Brwon University"?
Give me a break- he went there in the 1940-50's which was hardly a trying time to be a non-Wasp in an Ivy school.
I have seen nobody involved in this ghastly episode claim this.
The janitors were afraid for their jobs.
As for the others, by their actions they claimed it. They did not stop a rape in progress and they did not make sure the rapist was cut off from his ready supply of boys. They have continued to be lauded as legends and heroes at Penn State's premier football program.
What do you think stopped them?
As for the others, by their actions they claimed it.
That is your inference. It may or may not be the truth.
I was not thinking about the janitors when I asked the question; you are right about them.
That is your inference. It may or may not be the truth.
Ok. I'm open to other explanations.
What reason can you think of to not stop the rape of a child other than self-preservation?
There's at least one sane person here--Miss Hunt. Surrounded by the 17 dwarfs.
Yes the proper response would have been to run up to Sandusky, septum-smash it, and then call the cops ASAP.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
UPDATE: via Hotair.com it is reported that Penn State’s President, Spannier (??) will be forced to resign or be fired…today.
Madman, whilst we cannot know WHY the Assistant and the AD and others kept silent and kept themselves ignorant of the details, until or unless they release articles/books; I think it is a reasonable assumption that they determined the “Fall-out” from investigating and substantiating these claims would be detrimental to PSU’s Football Program, and therefore, to their careers. The only other explanation is that they were all members of NAMBLA.
What reason can you think of to not call the police when you know a child is being raped, other than fear that it may come back to hurt you?
What reason can you think of to not stop the rape of a child other than self-preservation?
As I said upthread, shock.
For those he told, denial. Of course, you can't stop it after the fact, but the reason for not doing anything thereafter? Denial. Wishful thinking.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
For those he told, denial. Of course, you can't stop it after the fact, but the reason for not doing anything thereafter? Denial. Wishful thinking
Nice try, a more reasonable “take” runs along of the lines of, “Coach Sandusky is higher up the food chain than I am, and if I say too much, I’ll be fired and never get anywhere in College Ball (McCleary (??))” and “Whether or not this turns out to be true, the program will be tarnished. There will be fewer recruits, more negative publicity, and fewer alumni dollars to the program. The fans and alumni will be P!ssed at whomsoever brought this sh!testorm down on the program, and demand his head. I ain’t looking hard or saying anything. I like my job.”
Coach Sandusky is higher up the food chain than I am, and if I say too much, I’ll be fired and never get anywhere in College Ball
This does not match with reality.
At the time, Sandusky was retired. The people I'm talking about, that McQueary told, are Paterno, and then the AD and higher-ups in the University. Sandusky was not above them in the food chain.
What should have happened is that either McQueary should have called the police, or Paterno should have taken McQueary to the police so he (McQ) could tell them what he saw. That is the moral failing on their part.
The reality is that McQueary saw Sandusky raping. Sandusky who, I'll bet, has been to McQueary's parents' house. McQueary knows Sandusky's sons, probably went to school with some of them. I think a reaction to a rape featuring people you don't know vs. a rape by -- I'll call him a family friend, but maybe he's just an acquaintance -- is going to be very different.
As I said upthread, shock.
For those he told, denial. Of course, you can't stop it after the fact, but the reason for not doing anything thereafter? Denial. Wishful thinking.
You can stop the next one.
I don't buy the idea that a group of men could tell themselves McQeary simply didn't see what he saw. But if that's true, that says something horrible about the atmosphere at Penn State, too.
It's easy to sit back and say that you -- you! -- would have acted differently. You -- you! -- would have made something happen in a town where the coaching staff is god.
I'd like to say I would have acted differently. But that's easy.
It's easy to sit back and say that you -- you! -- would have acted differently. You -- you! -- would have made something happen in a town where the coaching staff is god.
I'd like to say I would have acted differently. But that's easy.
That's what I'm saying.
The reason he*-- he!--- didn't act differently is because the coaching staff is God.
*or they, in the case of the janitors
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
MadMan, not buying it…McQueary saw the FORMER PSU Defensive Coordinator, long-time friend of Joe Pa, possible successor (at one time) to Paterno raping a boy in the shower, and did NOTHING, because he and Sandusky had social contact(s)? Sorry, I’m pretty certain a graduate assistant understands(under stood) his place in the Food Chain…Sandusky was a MUCH bigger fish than a Grad Assistant, former QB…and I’m betting McQueary and his father realized that blowing the whistle was going to bring a LOT of opprobrium down on PSU and that PSU wouldn’t “reward” McQueary for all the bad PR. Instead, they figured he’d lose his job, be known as the guy who ratted out Joe Pa, and he’d be coaching High School football for the rest of his life.
Joe -- Your assumption that the guy did nothing is flawed. It does make the argument easier, though.
Wasn't Sandusky the heir apparent? That would go a long way toward explaining, though not condoning, Paterno's reluctance to act.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
MadMan you seem to be conversant with the academic landscape. So let’s try this gedunken experiment . A Poli Sci Graduate Assistant walks into a conference area where Columbia Professor Emeritus Seweryn Bialer is busy raping a co-ed. Now tell me, who is higher on the academic food chain, the RETIRED PROFESSOR or the Graduate Assistant? Who’s got more proteksia or blat the former Director of Columbia's Research Institute on International Change and dean of “Soviet Studies” or some PhD candidate? And who’s word and reputation and “reach” can hurt who the most or will be more believed?
McQueary decided to “punt” and hand it off to Paterno and didn’t look to hard or demand any follow-up, and I think it’s pretty obvious why…CAREER.
Joe -- Career was certainly part of it. I'm sure that's what he told the grand jury as well.
Imagine what Bill Clinton's secretary must have been thinking. She knew the score when all that was going on.
A Poli Sci Graduate Assistant
I'm sorry, you lost me right there.
A PoliSci grad student has no job prospects and therefore won't have to worry about the repercussions of his or her actions.
What you think is pretty obvious may or may not be the actual truth.
Madison -- That was funny.
"A Poli Sci Graduate Assistant walks into a conference area where Columbia Professor Emeritus Seweryn Bialer is busy raping a co-ed. "
A co-ed is not a 10 year old boy from a broken home. A co-ed can speak for themself.
I don't care what the *sshat's logic was in not going to the cops (let alone stopping the incident he witnessed right then and there) in the first place, the guy is scum. I can say unequivocally that I would put an end to something so criminal if I saw it going on.
How pathetic is this guy if his first instinct is not the well being of that little kid and instead it's the thought of what will happen to my career if I put a stop to this. I hope his name is so tarnished that he can never step near a football field again.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
What you think is pretty obvious may or may not be the actual truth
So now you’re going to fall back on the “We can’t know” Defense…you might want to ready the “N’uh-Uh” Fallback Position next…..
Pretty much unless McQuery was a gay pedophile I can’t think of many reasons he didn’t act more forcefully, save concerns for his career….I’m sure he WAS shocked at what he saw…but if seeing a small boy being raped, by an older, less fit man (than you) doesn’t move you to take some action more forceful than calling your Dad, I can’t say much for you…and the only plausible reason for doing so little was concerns about “repercussions”…on the Assistant.
@Seven, I was alarmed to read my daughter's resume recently. She went off to college undecided as to a major.
Maybe it was just a space-filler on the resume, but she has her major listed as Poli Sci now. I console myself that a freshman can change her mind.
@Joe, hardly a defense, as I'm not defending anything. Do not conflate trying to understand with defending.
How could you stand by while a young boy is raped? How could you stay silent knowing this is what happened?
Roux -- If there is a trial, you can read the transcript and find out.
Madison -- Looks like law school for your daughter. But buck up! There are worse fates. At least her major doesn't end with the word studies.
If you're going to give the janitors a pass for not reporting abuse, you're going to have to give the GA a pass too. The GA was a quarterback at Penn State from 1994-1997, so there was a huge power/authority differential there, as Sandusky was the defensive coordinator and heir apparent to Paterno until he rather suddenly "retired" in 1999 after being informed by Paterno that he was not ever going to be head coach. The incident with the janitor happened in 1998. Coincidence?
There is every indication that Paterno knew about Sandusky's little problem at least as far back as 1998, and they allowed him to retire and maintain an office and access to the athletic facilities.
When the GA told Paterno about Sandusky in 2002, there is no excuse for his failure to act, and no excuse for him to simply pass the buck to the AD and let him deal with it. Blame it on the GA if you wish, but this should have been stopped years before then. He deserves some blame, but he came forward, reported it to Paterno, the Athletic Director, and the VP in charge of the campus police, and none of them reported it to the police or did anything other than tell Sandusky that he couldn't bring kids to Penn State any more. Rape them somewhere else, just not here.
William,
"A child rapist is a mutant, some random variation of evil. But all these other people are us. It's frightening to observe how easy it is to coerce acquiescence in evil in otherwise good people."
Absolutely - this story tells us a lot about our society as a whole. A pretty high percentage of us are very willing to look the other way, for some pretty horrendous stuff, for a variety of reasons.
If they're serious, Paterno will be charged with obstruction of justice.
I read something about this the other day that moved me. I saved it. It was:
Legal responsibility is for the situation. Moral responsibility is for life.
That is a profound truth. I have done things that gnaw at me and will gnaw at me for the rest of my days. Nothing like this, but the point remains.
The truly right thing to do is sometimes a very hard thing to do. It is complicated. It can make other things much worse. It's easy to fault other people for choosing some less-right, easier thing when we ourselves don't have to face the entire situation.
The kid didn't scream because he figured this was his fate.
The kid didn't scream because this wasn't his first time. Sandusky wouldn't risk taking his virginity in a public place.
Has anyone heard what prompted the state investigation at this late date?
RalphL-
The mother of an 11 year old boy called his middle school to tell them Sandusky (an assistant football coach and Second Mile "mentor") had been performing oral sex on her son.
This was in 2008.
This school, thank goodness, actually got the police involved.
to clarify: Sandusky was an assistant coach at the middle school, and was using the Second Mile program to go to the school and "mentor" several boys.
Steve Koch said...
Paterno's reputation is ruined, what a selfish, gutless, weak POS. I hope that PoSU pays hundreds of millions in settlements to the rape victims.
Agreed.
Thanks, MayBee, and Happy Birthday!
OMG!
Re-reading the report, I see that in 2005-1007, Sandusky was bringing the Second Mile kids to pre-season games and other sporting events at Penn State.
And Sandusky was still allowed to have the Second Mile football camps at Penn State. That's how he met the boy who eventually got the cops to listen.
This is after he'd been caught raping a boy in their showers.
2005-2007.
Wasn't Penn St the same college that whitewashed the infamous Hockey Stick investigation? Didn't Paterno also break some record with his last win? Is it just a coincidence all of this came out after that?
I also seem to remember that they had a women's basketball coach who made it known she would not accept any lesbians on her team.
Strange place up there.
J said...
Yes the proper response would have been to run up to Sandusky, septum-smash it, and then call the cops ASAP.
Unlike you of course that would have watched, fapped, and then asked for your turn.
Wasn't Penn St the same college that whitewashed the infamous Hockey Stick investigation?
What?
Penn State is just now getting a hockey team. It's caused the demise of the WCHA, I think.
Mad Man -- I had to Google it myself. ...Penn State hockey stick...
@ KLDAVIS
I say this with some reservations but still it has to be said:
Don't go full retard.
Why would someone believe you if you walked into their office and told them that Sandusky was raping a 10 year old boy?
1. Because he would be on the floor of the shower bleeding from every orifice, covered in bruises and with as many bones broken as is humanly possible.
2. Because you called the police after Sandusky slipped in the wet shower.
3. Because there's a 10 year old boy who had just been anally raped you complete and utter hack.
Or do you think recently raped children suddenly fly off for Never Never Land?
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