The elder Barack H. Obama, a sophomore at the University of Hawaii, had come under scrutiny by federal immigration officials who were concerned that he had more than one wife. When he was questioned by the school’s foreign student adviser, the 24-year-old Obama insisted that he had divorced his wife in his native Kenya. Although his new wife, Ann Dunham, was five months pregnant with their child - who would be called Barack Obama II - Obama declared that they intended to put their child up for adoption.Of course, Obama, Sr. could have been lying about the plan. (Obama, Jr. says he doesn't believe his mother ever considered putting him up for adoption.)
“Subject got his USC wife ‘Hapai’ [Hawaiian for pregnant] and although they were married they do not live together and Miss Dunham is making arrangements with the Salvation Army to give the baby away,’’ according to a memo describing the conversation with Obama written by Lyle H. Dahling, an administrator in the Honolulu office of what was then called the US Immigration and Naturalization Service.
Although [Obama, Sr. ] told Duham that he had gotten divorced from his Kenyan wife, he apparently did not tell her about his other children.
Obama was a member of the Luo ethnic group, the third largest of Kenya’s tribes, among whose members polygamy was common. His own father had at least four wives. In fact, Obama was still married to his Kenyan wife, Grace Kezia Obama, and apparently worried about the financial burden of another child.So, he was lying about the divorce? I don't understand that sentence that begins with the word "Although." There's no contrast between clause 1 and clause 2 of that sentence. He lied to her about 2 things. "Although" doesn't work.
Now, you may wonder, why would Obama Sr. lie to the authorities about adoption? Isn't his case for staying in the United States stronger if he is rearing a USC child? The article suggests that a new child combined with bigamy is what would make him a worse candidate and notes that the immigration authorities had been "alarmed" about his "playboy" ways. Once he married an American citizen, they anticipated that she would petition to make him a U.S. citizen, and the question of the validity of the marriage would arise. Officials considered "charging Obama with polygamy or bigamy in order to get a deportation order against him," but decided to watch him closely instead and question the validity of the marriage if he attempted to become a citizen. In the end, Obama Sr. left Hawaii (and Dunham and baby Barack) to go to Harvard, where he would find a new wife and "the question of how many wives he had would spiral into a confrontation with devastating consequences."
Why — let's ask the question again — did Barack Obama, Jr. write a book called "Dreams From My Father"? Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
Posts
178 comments:
Cue bellicose thread carpet-bombing via Mick.
Steve Sailer answered this in his own critique of Obama's book.
Obama wanted to be a race hustler. His mother, who was a Red Diaper baby, wanted him to be a race hustler.
When Obama took up community organizing in Chicago, he realized that the blacker than thou thing was the key to his political aspirations.
Obama's mother is the sort of piece of shit you find in places like Woodstock or Berkeley.
She got knocked up the Obama Sr., who promptly abandoned the kid. She remained in love with Obama Sr. her entire life because he was the very picture of the black revolutionary hero.
She remarried to an Indonesian guy who was boring and bourgeois. He tried like hell to provide a middle class stable life for Barack. She hated the guy's guts for it, divorced him and dumped the kid on her mother.
Why make his father the center of his book?
That which is unknown has a certain intrigue, don't you think? The unfamiliar is also easier to project onto.
Let's just cede the entire post to Mick right up front.
Maybe because Obama is a lot more like his father than his mother.
It's easy to argue that his administration, so far, fits the paternal example much more than the maternal.
Plus, the more obvious reason.
It is a GREAT question.
Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
To Obama race trumps all.
Perhaps because an exotic foreign parentage was more important to Obama Jr's narrative than being the son of some Caucasian woman from fly over country. Which says something about how calculating Obama Jr is to secure things he wants.
Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
His name?
I wonder what would've happened if they'd named him Stanley.
Will "Dreams of My Father" end up next to "Million Little Pieces" in the distbin of history?
Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
The other part of the book's title is: "A Story of Race and Inheritance."
How boring is a book about race going to be when it's about his white mother?
I think we recognize Barack Obama Sr. was a shitty dad.
I'm no fan of the President, but he clearly is an improvement over his father. It is a major tell though that he shows respect for the father and little for the mother. He has a problem telling right from wrong and understanding who provides and who takes advantage.
I lost my father at the age of 3 1/2 and his memory or reconstruction of a memory and history has haunted my dreams and nightmares since, so I can understand this focus of the title, although within the text he gives great credit to this mother.
Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
I'm still waiting for the movie.
Another web of lies.
How can you stand it?
Dan in Philly and the real author of Dreams did not get any of the royalties! Of course, Ayers reward is having Barack Obama in office!
Here's the link to Sailer's Book: America's Half-Blood Prince: Barack Obama's "Story of Race and Inheritance".
Althouse, you don't read Sailer?
Barack Jr.'s image of his dad is not based on any reality, other than his dad voluntarily not being there when he was growing up.
Barack Jr. loved his mom. Unfortunately his mom filled his head with a bunch of Marxist nonsense. Well, mom and Uncle Frank.
I lost my father at the age of 3 1/2 and his memory or reconstruction of a memory and history has haunted my dreams and nightmares since, so I can understand this focus of the title, although within the text he gives great credit to this mother.
What bullshit! Not your story, but the romanticizing of Obama's.
Obama Sr. knocked up Stanley Ann Durham when she was underage. He committed statutory rape.
He committed bigamy by marrying her and promptly abandoned her and the kid.
I continue to wonder what Obama has in his experience that would make him a good, or even a mediocre leader of Americans. He was a terrible choice, although, very much a Democrat type.
Makes sense. This is what did happen in the end isn't it?
Obama Sr dumps the baby.
Eventually the mother dumps him as well.
He grows up knowing that his parents didn't want him and didn't love him even enough to be with him.
People like Michelle Bachman are heroes to me. They take children like this who are unwanted and give them good homes. Most importantly care and love.
There is no benefit to them for doing it. It is literally out of the goodness of their hearts.
Love or hate Bachman's politics. Support her for office or not. Anyone who raises foster kids is a truly good person and we are blessed to have them in our midst.
How would Obama have turned out if he had been raised by someone like Bachman instead of the way he was?
Probably a much better person.
John Henry
OT: The Switch Lightbulb.
Looks cool.
It's a Fathers and Sons thing, Professor.
Women are equal, but here they are different. The difference is highlighted in the Father/Son emotion need.
Males seek an identity from their fathers. And most men never feel good about themselves until they have done as well as their fathers.
It is also true that most men quit trying to better themselves once they have done as well as their fathers.
Barry needed to find a father to be his measure for his goal in life.
Barack, Sr was dedicated to getting revenge on the British Empire, and he used anybody in any way he could to get the god Education's power and turn it as a weapon upon the Brits.
See Barry run.
I agree with Shouting Thomas. Sailer's blog is a must read.
But be prepared, those of you who don't like to go out of your comfort zone, he is a truth-seeker, regardless of the ox gored.
Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
Good question, one that has always bothered me.
The only answer I've ever come up with is she isn't black, and the book was all about capitalizing on him being black for political purposes.
"though within the text he gives great credit to this mother."
In the preface to the book, he expresses his *regret* that he did not focus on his mother. It's a problem with the book, and it was obvious enough that he preempted criticism by calling attention to it himself.
Because Obama shares with his father the primacy of the lie, the scam, and the hustle.
To really understand Stanley Ann Dunham, it is instructive to spend some time in cafes in Telegraph Avenue or in bars along San Pablo Avenue in Berkeley.
Those are the places where young commie white girls try to find a revolutionary black stud for mating.
This syndrome is too crazy to describe. I can only describe the usual outcome, which is the white girls and the black studs combining forces in the hope of launching a race war that will bring down the hated U.S. of A.
Can't say what that means about Barack owing his life to such a mating. Too crazy, really, to make any sense of that.
@Shouting Thomas.
I"ve pointed out several times to Sarah Palin critics who claim she's a poor mother who didn't adequately supervise her daughter that Stanley Ann Dunham was the same age as Bristol Palin when she became pregnant.
Barack does seem to be a good father, and I suppose that is in part due to an internalized disapproval of him. I think the books and his better quality behavior is an attempt to fix his dad, and thus himself. I do respect Barack for this, if nothing else.
WHO *IS* BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA???
If Obama was really concerned about giving short shrift to his mother he would have had Bill Ayres go back and add some verbiage about her.
That all he could do was say he felt bad in the preface amounts to utter bullshit. If he had, he would have done something.
John Henry
Barry wants ever so much to be black, so he can be elected, so he has to ignore his melanin-challenged mother and focus on his scumbag muzzie father.
And saying that Barry is better than his father is damning him with faint praise.
Nobody, back in 1961, was adopting black babies.
Given that Senior, impregnated a white 17 year old, you can just imagine how her parents took that news. (Not now. Back then.)
While Obama has said he has his birth certificate slapped to his forehead, I thought Dunham's parents FORCED their daughter to the State of Washington. Where she was housed in an unwed mother's home.
These were very sophisticated adoption rings. Teenagers in them were told to feel shame. Lawyers, mostly working with the Catholic Church, worked the racket. There were always infertile couples who wanted "their" baby.
But not black ones.
When Barry was born it was obvious he wasn't a white baby. So, mom got to keep him.
She enrolled in college in Washington State. She did not go home. And, by using local neighbers who were also communists. And, friends of her parents. She made a life for herself in Washington State.
I'm sure the Vatican has the original copy of Barry's birth certificate.
Stanley Ann also would have been given back a child, if the child was born with Downs Syndrome. Or the obstetrician would have smacked the kid's head onto the concrete floor.
Now that you're looking at Obama Senior's application to immigration; you can see "the white lady who lived in Hawaii ... was thought to be "a lead" to America. But, here's where the holes develop. Here's where Stanley Ann BALKED.
"Natural Born Citizen" just means you're born in the United States. (Or you're born to military personnel sent overseas on an American military mission.)
It once also meant you weren't illegitimate. But you can forget this one. Today's children aren't judged by yesterday's "standards."
though within the text he gives great credit to this mother."
In the preface to the book, he expresses his *regret* that he did not focus on his mother. It's a problem with the book, and it was obvious enough that he preempted criticism by calling attention to it himself.
Bill Ayers did not think a story about Mom helped the greater goal of the book, getting Obama elected as President of the United States. You think I am kidding? At a minimum Ayers did a lot of editing to that book.
"WHO *IS* BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA???"
Never before in history have we ever known so little about a President before electing him.
Even though his supporters are the ones who were most fooled by him, they still suck up. Which makes them, frankly, fools.
Parking meters are better fathers than BO, Sr.
But I agree that BO, Jr. hasn't gone the usual route of child abandonment so prevalent among his peeps, and that is much to his credit.
E.M. That bulb is beautiful.
"WHO *IS* BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA???"
Barack Hussein Obama. Mmm, mmm, mmm.
The book is entirely a piece of calculated fiction for political purposes.
Response 1. Obama’s pop reminds me of the lecherous corgi “Pentapod” who once summered in the crawl space of a neighbor’s house. Soon the neighborhood was overrun by pups-a-plenty, each more naive and deceitful than the next, and all low to the ground.
Response 2. Success has many fathers, while failure is [nearly] an orphan.
One thing I will say: You can't blame President Obama for the circumstances of his life.
I've seen plenty of kids who were dealt the same hand in Woodstock, Berkeley and the Village.
Some of them are doing OK. Obama, obviously, parlayed it into success.
Everything he's conveyed to the public about himself is a damned lie. And, just about everybody has wanted to believe it. Don't know who is to blame for that.
If we knew who he really is, would he have been elected? Can't say.
Good heavens, Obama is so postmodern that even his past is insubstantial. It can be defined however anyone wishes it to be.
Crack & ST are both on the mark. "Race Hustler" and "Web of Lies" doesn't EVEN beging to describe Obama's background, but most--even here--simply don't want to face the tissue of lies that they would have to wade thru--at the end of which would be questions of legitimacy that few have the psychic energy to gird their loins to face; the truly terrible commentary/implications on what this means for the legitimacy of our electoral process, the role of media, and our present government. No, far easier/better, less disruptive, to ignore what such revelations would entail.
Oh Carol, I had such hopes for you then you said:
"Natural Born Citizen" just means you're born in the United States. (Or you're born to military personnel sent overseas on an American military mission.)
+++
One is a citizen because the Constitution says so.
The other is a citizen because legislation says so.
Both are citizens with full rights and citizenship that can never be revoked.
Whether both are "natural born" or not is another question.
Based on my investigations and on my presidential candidacy in 1988, I think not. Your milage may vary.
I don't think Obama Sr's citizenship has any effect on Junior's natural born status.
John Henry
Well, his mother dumped him too, didn't she? And at a later age so he couldn't even idealize the mother he never had.
It's not like mom was some kind of saint who sacrificed everything for young Barry.
In an odd way, Obama did honor his mother.
Remember, she wanted him to become a race hustler.
He became a race hustler.
That's what she wanted.
I don't think Obama's election leads to questions about the legitimacy of our electoral system.
It does, however, highlight the incredible power of the romantic racial mythology that white leftists have build around blacks.
Maybe the president's fixation on his father, as opposed to his mother, despite his father's abandonment of him is related to the phenomenon of adopted children or children who came to be through donor sperm fixating on their biological parents and wanting badly to meet them and know them.
This phenomenon, that "blood speaks," that there is a "void" when kids don't know their biological parents, is often cited by conservatives who oppose artificial insemination or gay parents raising children.
I read Stanley Ann Dunham as having been a good mother. Sure. She used sitters a lot. She lived with her son from the beginning, in Washington State. And, she immediately started taking college courses.
Back in 1961 college was a route to employment.
Stanley Ann never dumped her kid!
There are lies that are surrounding Obama's birth. But there by Ayres. Who created a narrative.
But for a 17 year old woman?
It's on par with saying Bristol Palin isn't a good mom, because she was a contestant on a dancing program.
BULLSHIT.
Barry was not at risk through his mom!
No, gerry, all the true"post-moderns" are all those who wish to wish away the true nature of Obama's past and believe in the fairy-tale of his legitimacy which he has concocted so as not to rock the constitutional crisis boat. We're "so beyond that," aren't we? "Water over the dam by now." "Waste of time to speculate," right? Sure...
Remember, the driver of the getaway car is held equally complicit in the commission of the bank robbery. Faces: meet mirror.
No, gerry, all the true"post-moderns" are all those who wish to wish away the true nature of Obama's past and believe in the fairy-tale of his legitimacy which he has concocted so as not to rock the constitutional crisis boat. We're "so beyond that," aren't we? "Water over the dam by now." "Waste of time to speculate," right? Sure...
Remember, the driver of the getaway car is held equally complicit in the commission of the bank robbery. Faces: meet mirror.
wv: remulc---yes, we might as well be living on the planet Remulic if we swallow the crap that Obama puts out about his past.
No, gerry, all the true"post-moderns" are all those who wish to wish away the true nature of Obama's past and believe in the fairy-tale of his legitimacy which he has concocted so as not to rock the constitutional crisis boat. We're "so beyond that," aren't we? "Water over the dam by now." "Waste of time to speculate," right? Sure...
Remember, the driver of the getaway car is held equally complicit in the commission of the bank robbery. Faces: meet mirror.
wv: remulc---yes, we might as well be living on the planet Remulic if we swallow the crap that Obama puts out about his past.
Somewhat off-topic, but this post reminded me of this article, linked by ShoutingT earlier today: http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2011-07-06.html
"The statistics [regarding the bad outcomes associted with the children of single mothers, detailed in the article] are so jaw-dropping that not giving up an illegitimate child for adoption ought to be considered child abuse."
Hmmmm.
I HATE blogger--sorry--didn't touch a thing..
Barry was not at risk through his mom!
You are partially right.
Stanley Ann Dunham's mother was a rock. So was her father.
Grandma and grandpa were rock solid white folks from middle America who transplanted to Honolulu.
So, Stanley Ann didn't abandon her son to the streets. She planted the kid into a solid middle class white home.
Stanley Ann may have been incredibly stupid about a lot of things. But, when it came to who raised her son, she did exhibit some intelligence.
In case I didn't make it clear, Stanley Ann Dunham's parents did the actual job of raising Obama.
That's undoubtedly where he developed his strong center. Whatever you say about him, he's a rock solid guy who has no doubts about himself.
That's the work of grandma and grandpa.
"The statistics [regarding the bad outcomes associted with the children of single mothers, detailed in the article] are so jaw-dropping that not giving up an illegitimate child for adoption ought to be considered child abuse."
That's in direct conflict with a Diane Rheems show I heard back in '06 about a new book claiming that a majority of the most exceptional people in our country came from single-mother households...starting with Bill Clinton and moving forward. They made the point that boys don't need a father in the house; boys can get "male" role models in uncles, neighbors, etc.
All of this despite mountains of contrary evidence.
I guarantee that if your right leg were amputated, you would spend a great deal more time thinking about its phantom presence than of your left leg......Obama came from a background of chaos and has found his way to an apparently happy and tranquil domestic life. That reflects well on him and his ability to make the right choices in his personal life. Still they are choices and not the kind of instinctual decisions that someone like Bush makes. I'm not knocking Obama for this, but he seems to be a self invented man. Gatsby does Washington. One wonders if this self invention process is now complete.
"Why — let's ask the question again — did Barack Obama, Jr. write a book called "Dreams From My Father"? Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?"
Because he hates white people?
Carol_Herman said...
I'm sure the Vatican has the original copy of Barry's birth certificate.
As they were fond of saying in the 4th Punjab Infantry, "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot"?
Mick must be asleep.
The article Shouting T and lyssa reference contains, to me, a more surprising anecdote than the rather predictable information about single mothers:
"Meanwhile, adopted kids, on average, turn out better than even biological kids raised in two-parent families."
And saying that Barry is better than his father is damning him with faint praise.
Yeah, but as far as we can tell he seems to be a good father, which is not faint praise. I respect people who see their rotten parents and make every effort not to make the same mistakes. Good for him.
As far as the book, forget about the mom, what about Grandma? She seems to have been a very important person in his life. Letters to my Grandmother could have been quite a meaningful book.
Also from that article:
"They were as strongly attached to their parents as their non-adopted siblings. Indeed, contrary to Hollywood movies portraying adopted kids mystically driven to find their biological parents, the majority of adopted teenagers rarely thought about the fact that they were adopted. (Apple's Steve Jobs has shown little interest in his biological father and corrects people who refer to his "adoptive parents," saying, "They were my parents.") "
I guess what I said earlier is not so much a phenomenon for adopted kids as it is for artificial-insemination kids?
There are, Althouse, stunning similarities in the way that Dylan and Obama went about achieving success.
Both employed self-mythologizing centered around racial romanticism.
Dylan somehow convinced NY intellectuals that he was a poor Okie. His fame arose out of that Okie folksinger fighting for the civil rights of the black folks thing. (That he was a middle class educated Jew never seemed to matter.)
Obama, well, he is the "nice Negro" intellectual that white leftists have been dying to discover.
Were either of them aware of what they were doing? Or were they just skilled storytellers doing what comes natural?
"although they were married they do not live together"
Nobody seems to have picked up on this. Doesn't this contradict what Barack has said?
That's in direct conflict with a Diane Rheems show I heard back in '06 about a new book claiming that a majority of the most exceptional people in our country came from single-mother households...starting with Bill Clinton and moving forward.
That could be true, in that it promotes a drive in some individuals that pushes them beyond others. But those people are anomalies. Bill Clinton might have been a ultimately happier if he had been raised in a stable family and not so driven to success. But who knows.
Subject got his USC wife ‘Hapai’ [Hawaiian for pregnant] and although they were married they do not live together
This was while she was pregnant.
I do not believe there is evidence that they ever set up housekeeping together.
The address listed in the paper for the birth mother's home was the grandparents' address.
Cue the crazy governor's claim that he saw them together with the baby at social events <-- plural.
After he left for Harvard. haha!!
If Stanley Ann Dunham's parents were so rock solid and did such a good job for Barack, why did SAD turn out to be such a flake? Was it simply the mistake of naming her Stanley? Like A Boy Named Sue?
BHO was encouraged to write his autobiography after being elected president of the HLR, which got press because he is A-A. He's writing his first book and needs an organizational device. The missing African father was it. Anyhow, no one here seems to know about A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama's Mother. Untold even by the famous writer son.
The Professor asks: 1. Why — let's ask the question again — did Barack Obama, Jr. write a book called "Dreams From My Father"?
2. Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
1. Like ST "Obama wanted to be a race hustler. His mother, who was a Red Diaper baby, wanted him to be a race hustler.
When Obama took up community organizing in Chicago, he realized that the blacker than thou thing was the key to his political aspirations."
Being bi-racial wasn't special enough. And BHO is really really special. Everyone in his life has told him so. Up til now.
So Frank Marshall Davis and the other fellow travellers in his life groomed him. And you idolize the Revolutionary.
2. Because BO is racist. Black is beautiful, exotic, different, a free pass to un-examined leadership and power. And white mom was not.
Many people who are outraged at Casey Anthony's not bothering to mention to people that her toddler daughter was missing don't see a problem with Ann Stanley Dunham leaving her kid wherever it was convenient so she could study Indonesian blacksmithing. (She was liberated.)
Maybe BHO isn't as accepting of his mother's behavior as PC requires.
But BHO, Sr -- cool drunk, liar, womanizer, bigamist, dead beat dad, revolutionary!! He was someone special.
write_effort -- He was NOT asked to write an autobiography.
He was contracted to write about *race relations.*
Why are you looking for deeper meaning in a con job? The con *is* the meaning. Those who bought (in either sense) the book, were scammed. You don't get your dollar back once you figure out the shell game is a con.
JAL, you're right. It morphed into an autobiography. Although in one quote from him I think he said he was encouraged to write about his experiences.
nd he had notrhing to say worth the $40,000 advance.
It took a trip to Bali with Michelle to get his rear in gear.
Or was that the second book based on idolozing ... Jeremiah Wright. (BHO's problems show themselves even more clearly when one notices who he picks for male role models.)
And yes, BHO Jr seems to genuinely like his daughters. I just wish he'd decide to leave public life to spend more time with his family.
Trapper: The article Shouting T and lyssa reference contains, to me, a more surprising anecdote than the rather predictable information about single mothers:
"Meanwhile, adopted kids, on average, turn out better than even biological kids raised in two-parent families."
I'd like to see the research on it, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by it. When I think of parents raising bio kids, I think of my own family, and much of my and my husband's extended family- 50's sitcom stuff (almost).
But my experiences in the court system show that that's not nearly always the case. In adoptive families, when the child is clearly planned for, it's a lot more likely to be that way.
Shanna said: Bill Clinton might have been a ultimately happier if he had been raised in a stable family and not so driven to success. But who knows.
Happier, who knows; but I'd certainly bet that he'd have had far more stable and pleasant relationships with women.
- Lyssa
So Obama's father, grandfather, and brother are/were all polygamists.
Imagine if a Republican President had this background.
Anyone who thinks Barry is a good father has had too much koolaide. He smokes. He doesn't even know the age of his daughter. He drinks like a fish, had a coke habit and is probably still a stoner.
So we have a drug addicted inarticulate boob and somehow he is now the very model of a good father. Bullshit. He is an idiot flailing in the deep end and probably as disengaged with his children as he is with doing his job.
Why make his father the center of his book?
Because no self-respecting Muslim-Atheist-Marxist male would theme his book as 'Dreams from My Mother'.
-
Shouting Tom.....I am a right winger who is a Bob Dylan fan. You are correct. Bob grew up a happy middle class Jew in Hibbing Minnesota. But he needed an act. So he became the poor troubled youth who came from a depressing poverty stricken background.
Just as Marilyn Manson isn't really a vampire, Bob Dylan really isn't a communist.
Interesting but pointless speculation on the President's personal life. Oppose his politics all you want but WTF can he do about what may or may not have happen when he was an infant or small child? Sheesh. You haters, conspiracy theorists, and gossipers need to take an honest look at what you're doing here. Let it go.
...and when it came time to die a slow and painful death, SAD returned to the States to seek help from a system she apparently never gave a dime enough to support. And we are judged today whether we approve extending such mercy to all by a man who still seeks vengeance for his birth circumstance.
By focusing on the father, little Barack becomes a victim. These days, being a victim means any criticism is motivated by the "hate" of people who are not very nice.
If you feel sorry for Barack, you will vote for him...again.
One of the reasons I don' like Obama is because he isn't a real American. He is the son of a polygamist from Kenya, and an anti-American athiest. He grew up in Indonesia.
I was at the Herbert Hoover birthplace and library in Iowa recently. Right now they have an exhibition on recent Presidents (Hoover through Bush 43) as children (birth through college). I am amazed at how humble and normal they were. Well, Roosevelt and Kennedy were pampered millioniares, but the rest....they were in school bands. Boy Scouts. High school sports. Class plays. Most were in the armed forces. Reagan used to go cruising through Illinois with his 3 best friends.
I just don't think Obama "gets" America.
Meant to add...as someone pointed out a while back...most of us, as kids, marched in or watched July 4th parades. We attended Memorial day services.
Obama doesn't have this background. I think that is why he wants to fundemental change America.
KenK said..."Let it go" as if he were asking me to let go of centuries of tradition. Just let it go...let go under...let it fade into the past...embrace change for the sake of change.
No Mr. K, you let it go...let go your choke hold.
Mick must be asleep.
I'd have to agree at this point. Either that or he's way back in line at the library PC's. Another, more likely, option is that he's gone full-metal unibomber.
I don't think it is wise or very nice to inquire into the President parentage. It is a subject best left unexamined like Bill Clinton's sex life or W taste in recreational pharmacetuicals. All three subjects should have been examined by the lap dog main stream media but we know that did not happen.
So let's not worry about it.
Anyone who thinks Barry is a good father has had too much koolaide
What are the chances you'll see one of his daughters get knocked up drunk in a tent? Or hang around with meth dealers? Dance like a stripper on TV? Pretty doubtful.
All three subjects should have been examined by the lap dog main stream media but we know that did not happen.
The lapdog media seems just as unwilling to do this in the next election cycle.
Consider this thread just commentary on whether we should care about things. Some obviously say it's irrelevent, preferring to focus on things like accomplishments.
@PatCA
Nope. Not at all. Victim or no I didn't vote for Obama in '08 and I likely won't in 2012 either. And with that said, trashing his personal history is just mean.
@chickenlittle
That's not what I was saying to let go of. Nice try at trying to confuse the two issues but that tactic is weak and easily dispensed with. Whether Obama is great president or a great big mistake please note: Nothing in his personal history will change one bit. Nothing. So prying into it for your own amusement may be fun (for you) but what difference does it make in the end? If you say that you do it just because you like to then I'd say fair enough. But don't kid yourself. You people that do this stuff are just as annoying as the MSM types that are continually digging through Palin's (and now Bachman's) dirty laundry looking for stains. I think that sort of skidmark hunting is just too demeaning for all involved in it, period.
Gargae Mahal imputed that Bristol Palin "Dance[ed] like a stripper on TV"
Did you even watch DWTS?
Have you ever been to a strip club?
You are blind GM, as well as deaf and dumb.
@KenK: Keep focusing on those accomplishments then. But you'll lose the sympathy vote.
Have you ever been to a strip club?
You are blind GM, as well as deaf and dumb.
What exactly would a union-shop strip club look like? I can't imagine Garage going to anything else as solidarity is important to progressives.
OT To Chuck:
Herbert Hoover was an amazing man. He did pretty well for a high school dropout.
Stanford grad, successful enough as an engineer at age 40 that he never had to earn a dollar again.
Probably saved 20 million people from death by starvation during and after WWI at considerable personal risk and cost.
His 3 volumes of memoirs are available at the Hoover Presidential library. I downloaded all 3 and read them straight through on my Kindle.
Also see Vernon Kellogg's 1920 bio (Kellogg assisted in the food aid program) as well as Hoover's textbook on mining. Both available for Kindle at Gutenberg.
A truly amazing and remarkable man who accomplished much more than any 10 normal men.
John Henry
Chicklittle,
Obama will win or lose based on his achievements or lack thereof and who the GOP nominates, third party candidates if any, and such like. And which is as it should be. Whether or not his mom had a jungle fever thing thing going for black males or was a communist or whatever doesn't and shouldn't reflect on him. Reagan's father was a bad alcoholic. Does that reflect on him? His son Ron Jr. is an asshole too. Should that reflect on RR too? Where do you draw the line?
And which is as it should be. Whether or not his mom had a jungle fever thing thing going for black males or was a communist or whatever doesn't and shouldn't reflect on him.
I agree with that.
Obama is his own man.
Jungle fever was only part of Stanley Ann Dunham's fetish. She was fucking for the revolution! Determined to find that Black Jesus!
Shouting Thomas - "Obama Sr. knocked up Stanley Ann Durham when she was underage. He committed statutory rape."
Your foray into agreeing with feminist rape politics isn't going too well, Shouting Thomas.
First, the feminist notion that any *spit* male that has sex with a "underage" girl is 100% at fault and even if underaged themselves a rapist! And all the 10s of millions of underaged when knocked up women 'victims' should not seek to marry their *spit* male rapists - but see them convicted and given a substantial jail sentence.
Second, you are wrong about "jungle fever Annie's " age. She was 18 when she fell for the dashing African bigamist, who was 23 at the time.
@KenK: Barack Obama is still a relatively young man for a politician. He could still turn himself around ala Ron Reagan. The question is, will he and when.
His hardcore core leftist constituency is peeling away out from under him (to his credit), yet he still seems to reject the sorts of values his grandparents had.
He has stated that his mother and his mother's values where moat influencial on him. I would check some of these links if I had time: link.
Why did you think it so unimportant that we wish to know what kind of world our leader wants us to live in?
It took a trip to Bali with Michelle to get his rear in gear.
We know so little about him, we don't even know if he took Michelle to Bali with him. Some versions of the story have her going, some have her staying home.
he's a rock solid guy who has no doubts about himself.
That isn't a positive trait.
I see connections!
garage mahal said...
I see connections!
What a visionary!
A union strip club, now there's a scary thought.
Would they be SEIU or Teamsters?
John said...
"Oh Carol, I had such hopes for you then you said:
"Natural Born Citizen" just means you're born in the United States. (Or you're born to military personnel sent overseas on an American military mission.)
+++
One is a citizen because the Constitution says so.
The other is a citizen because legislation says so.
Both are citizens with full rights and citizenship that can never be revoked.
Whether both are "natural born" or not is another question.
Based on my investigations and on my presidential candidacy in 1988, I think not. Your milage may vary.
I don't think Obama Sr's citizenship has any effect on Junior's natural born status."
And of course you are wrong. Where does it say that nbc equals born in America? If natural born just meant born in America, then the framers would have said "born in America".
The definition of natural born Citizen is well known over 200 years from a variety of sources. The SCOTUS precedent for the meaning of natural born Citizen is in Minor v. Happersett (1874):
"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."
There you have it clear as day. Judge Waite defines it the same as Vattel, and the same as John Bingham in 1866, and the same as Resolution 511 in April of 2008. That is , unless you have a problem defining the word "is".
Obama was born British of a British subject father. The country of the father is the country of the child. It is natural law that he should romanitcize his father's homeland, and that reality is the purpose of the natural born requirement as described in Federalist #68, which is to guarentee allegiance and attachment to America by raising one of our own to be POTUS.
Obama 2 is not one of our own, and he was even telling us that with that book. The purpose of the book was to get the knowledge of his father's foreign Citizenship planted in American minds before the election so as to set the precedent of a dual Citizen born President. That fact was not known to the public when Chester Arthur became President (the first Usurper). He didn't count on some patriots catching him, and educating the public, so now he hides behind the BC Controversy. In due time.
If the very purpose of A2S1C5 was to prevent foreign influence, then how is it possible that Obama, Admittedly born British, is a natural born Citizen, eligible to be POTUS?
I agree somewhat with those objecting to "trashing" the president's family and upbringing (although I agree that it explains a lot, including that he doesn't *get* America.) I don't think that it should be held against him as a person.
That said, though, I do think that it's a good thing to point out that a) he lionized people, both of his parents, who were, quite frankly, jerks, as this goes to his immaturity and character, and b) to point out that the behavior of his parents is not acceptable, and that his mother should not be considered some sort of hero, as she was not, and that she is not an example that others in society should follow.
- Lyssa
KenK,
"Nothing in his personal history will change one bit."
Yes, but the President often takes steps that seem illogical. Knowing his history may provide clues to his thought process, which is helpful when trying to predict future decisions.
I would like to amend my 1:13 comments to add that the President clearly rejects some of his parent's values at some level, preferring to be more interactive with his own kids.
So why can't he more overtly reject some of his mother's (and father's) political values?
Oh yeah, right. We don't really "know" what those were.
__________
wv = mistorn. touche'
Maguro said: A union strip club, now there's a scary thought.
Would they be SEIU or Teamsters?
I'm sure a higher value would be placed on seniority so it wouldn't be all bad for the workers.
KenK asks "where do you draw the line?" and makes it clear that he thinks questions about character (and background, as they may shed light on character) are or should be irrelevant to evaluating Obama.
Some people believe that, and the mainstream media certainly likes to put forth that line of reasoning whenever it is convenient. I used to buy into that line of reasoning years ago, though, before the Clinton years. After that point, I decided that questions of character really were pertinent. And as Althouse has worded the question, this is essentially a question of character. My take on it pretty much fits with what ST said earlier.
Obama is just so damn mysterious!
I just can't quite put my finger on it either. Just "different" from our past presidents. Maybe it's his eyes?
Because Bill Ayers liked the title better.
Obama is just so damn mysterious!
I just can't quite put my finger on it either. Just "different" from our past presidents. Maybe it's his eyes?
Aw! Garbage pulls out the inevitable RACISM bit.
Isn't the little bastard cute when he does that?
Give him a sucker.
Sheesh, Mick
I was not really even talking about natural born so much as noting that Carol was conflating Constitutionally derived citizenship (Born in the US) with legislatively derived citizenship (Born outside the US to US citizens)
And I still think you are full of shit on Obama's Kenyan/British citizenship having any bearing one way or t'other
John Henry
Dan in Philly,
Will "Dreams of My Father" end up next to "Million Little Pieces" in the distbin (sic) of history?
I hope so, but right now I'm a lot more worried about the United States ending up in the dustbin of history.
John on Hoover - There are some people that were enormously able and accomplished, but unable to translate success outside the Oval Office into a solid, accomplished Presidency.
John Quincy Adams, US Grant, Wilson, Hoover, HW Bush.
Or just fell victim to timing. Hoovers reputation might be vastly different in a Presidency in a different era.
Nixon is the enigma of the highly intelligent, greatly accomplished...with a solid, substantial Presidency regarded as a US Grant, Hoover style "failure". But like Hoover, Wilson, might have been considered a Great President if he was in a different era.
But 1968-1974? The Progressive Jewish media, then at their peak of control of and influence in - newspapers, magazines, and the Big 3 Networks - would have demonized anyone in office. (Anyone not liberal, that came from outside the East Coast Establishment, who didn't see NYC as the center of the universe). It was just the times. Southerner Bill Clinton and country bumpkin Truman or some 3rd rate actor from a mediocre college that hailed from Flyover country and was a reactionary....
Getting back to the theme established by Althouse, Paul Westerberg wrote:
"He might be a father but he sure ain't a dad." link
Yeah, nobody ever speculated about past president's relationships with their parents.
This is a first!!!! Obama is treated so differently!
So is Obama a Citizen Kane figure, always pursuing external validation from society to make up for his feelings of abandonment from childhood?
Wow...the comments here are amazing...it's like a Kentucky version of Fox Nation...
So is Obama a Citizen Kane figure
I don't see how. There's very little snow in Hawaii. I understand he had a little mirror/razor combo in college he called Nosebud though.
The one aspect of Barack Obama I admire:
As a family man, he is nothing like either of his flaky parents, his father being the far worse.
John said...
"Sheesh, Mick
I was not really even talking about natural born so much as noting that Carol was conflating Constitutionally derived citizenship (Born in the US) with legislatively derived citizenship (Born outside the US to US citizens)
And I still think you are full of shit on Obama's Kenyan/British citizenship having any bearing one way or t'other
John Henry"
I guess you have a problem understanding the word "is". Natural born Citizens are born in the US of US Citizen PARENTS. So says the precedent of Minor v. Happersett. Hamilton's "born a Citizen" language was rejected by the Convention in favor of natural born Citizen. If one's parents didn't matter, then how would that jibe with the stated Purpose, which was to prevent foreign influence, a great fear of the framers? John Jay wrote 4 Federalist Papers regarding that fear
http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fedindex.htm
There is no such thing as a "statutory" natural born Citizen, as natural born Citizens need no statute to be a US Citizen. The only "statutory" nbc's were born between 1790 and 1795, and the wording in the NA 1790 was that those children "shall be considered as" natural born Citizens. In 1795 that provision was removed. The framers were allowing those that were in the Revolutionary armies abroad to produce POTUS eligible children, much like they allowed themselves to be eligible, although they were not natural born.
If born in America of a Foreigner, then that child needs the 14th Amendment to be considered a US Citizen, thus is not a natural born Citizen, i.e born of 2 US Citizen parents on US soil. What else would they be but US Citizens? Thus the term "NATURAL", as in naturally occuring, indigenous.
It's not so much about Obama's actual parentage, as that he made up a fictitious background for himself and sold it.
It's not so much about Obama's actual parentage, as that he made up a fictitious background for himself and sold it.
Well, there are a wide varieties of truths here.
Obama has the right to present himself as he chooses.
Absolute verisimilitude is not required for running for political office.
More plain spoken analysis of his biography was available. I read Sailer's critique before the election.
The mainstream press didn't want to cover it. A wide swath of the electorate didn't want to read about it.
Obama's opponent, McCain, wanted no part in publicizing the truth, either.
Obama has the right to present himself as he chooses.
Putting aside the background stuff, will the Dem's campaign theme be "It's still Bush's fault?
Does that theme "have legs"?
Why did US Congresspeople try to eliminate or change the natural born Citizen requirement 8 times beginning just before Obama broke on the national scene in 2004 (between 2003-2008)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAu23fvG1vA&feature=player_embedded
Shouting Thomas said,
"Obama's opponent, McCain, wanted no part in publicizing the truth, either."
McCain was not eligible either. He was born in Panama, and not a natural born Citizen, because he was made a US Citizen by statute (USC 8 SS 1403)
http://law.justia.com/codes/us/title8/8usc1403.html
McCain was never meant to win, which is why he said nothing about Obama's nefarious associations. He was purposefully put up against Obama because he was not eligible either, thus neutralizing any Quo Warranto. Hillary got a plum post out of the deal.
Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
Barack Obama has known for all his life that he was utterly rejected by his father. His entire life has been an effort to win his father's love and approval, complicated by the fact that his father is dead and unable to give him that.
Unfortunately for us, the things that Obama is doing to win his father's approval involve putting Britain and the United States in their proper place.
Barack Obama, no matter what you do, your father will never love you. Never.
I'd give the President a pass on this. It's hard to grow up knowing that neither of your parents wanted you. And it's hard to grow up black. (Even in Hawaii, where racism is pervasive, though it's not the same racism you find in the mainland.)
Lots of people find it hard to figure out who they are and what their heritage has to do with it, even people from more stable environments than Barack Obama had.
I'm not really concerned about his past, so much as his present and future--I think he's doing, on the whole, harm to this country despite having good intentions. (We know what is said to be paved with those.)
@exhelodrvr1,
I am rather doubtful that any amount of amateur psychoanalysis on our part is going to give us much insight about his character. That will have to await BHO's post-presidential memoirs and maybe not even then either. What is really going on here is a search for embarrassing stains on his dirty laundry. I totally get why those of us more conservatively inclined feel that this is just and proper considering how much and how often it is done to us. But just admit that it's all a snipe hunt then. Some of you posters wouldn't vote for BHO if he ended the wars, balanced the budget for a decade, and cured cancer.
@Kurt
Character is fair game. Whether his dad was an atheist, communist, bigamist, alcoholic, and horn dog is notable for historical reasons I guess but most of the people going doing that kind of research aren't doing for biographies their writing for most part are they?. They're gathering mud to throw IMHO. If you want to attack, criticize or question BHO's ties to slumlords (Rezko et al.), bigots (Rev. Wright), kooks (Fr. Pfleger) or terrorists (Bill Ayers) and what that says about him then by all means. do so Those are choices Obama made and the consequences or outcomes good or bad are on him. But stuff his parents and grandparents did isn't. I hope you agree.
On the bare facts we do not know that his mother did not want him. Around 1970, and it is probably still so, but certainly then, a 10 year old kid with his parentage would be subject to a lot of bullying and harassment if not outright physical danger in Indonesia, and it is quite plausible that she sent him to her parents in Hawaii to get him away from that.
I'm not really concerned about his past, so much as his present and future...
...which are linked, much like kinetics and thermodynamics are in a purely physically world (see Hammond's Postulate). We could tell an awful lot about where he's leading us to and what the cost will be if he'd just be honest about where we're going.
On the other hand we could downplay his role and claim he's not leading at all or just "leading from behind." In that case, our own momentum is driving us.
We don't know who Barack Obama is, but at the same time we know exactly who he is!
We don't know who Barack Obama is, but at the same time we know exactly who he is!
You can do better than that, garbage.
Where's the racism angle?
I'm disappointed. No sucker for your this time.
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.
Mick is our hedgehog!
KenK wrote: Those are choices Obama made and the consequences or outcomes good or bad are on him. But stuff his parents and grandparents did isn't. I hope you agree.
What you seem to be saying is that we should give passes to leaders for any aspect of their background which was not their choice.
I think I more fair standard would be to look at the entire background picture (good and bad) and also decide which aspects a particular person decided to jettison. This why I too admire POTUS for his parenting (a rejection of his personal past) but do not admire his retention of his mother's political values or whatever you choose to call his alienation from "flyover values."
Ok.
Just think about it.
If he HAD put Obama up for adoption, how different/better all of OUR lives might be right now.
Different parents, different grandparents, different upbringing and different everything.
Alternate history time.
that he made up a fictitious background for himself and sold it.
Runs in the family: Cashill's latest
Cedarford said:
Second, you are wrong about "jungle fever Annie's " age. She was 18 when she fell for the dashing African bigamist, who was 23 at the time.
You're wrong.
Stanley Ann Dunham's birth date is November 29, 1942
Barack Obama Jr.'s birth date is August 4, 1961.
That means that Stanley Ann Dunham was 18 years, 8 months, and 5 days old when BHO Jr. was born.
If you subtract the normal gestation period of 39-42 weeks then she was certainly under the age of 18 when she became pregnant. Unless you want to argue that BHO Jr. was born prematurely; no one has ever claimed that.
garage mahal said...
We don't know who Barack Obama is, but at the same time we know exactly who he is!
Play along if you can GM but so far you're pretty weak.
Obama's enigma is more a question of integrity. There's always hope for change in BHO!
"Alternate history time.:
Obama grows up and becomes a master crafstman creating architectural chairs.
Obama grows up and puts his natural persuasive verbal talents to use and becomes the best siding salesman evah in the midwest.
Obama grows up and realizes that his naturally engaging smile will make him a natural for advertising and hence Billy Mays doesn't exist.
Obama grows up and does nothing of any distinction (just like the rest of 80% of the world) and Hillary becomes President of the United States.
Obama grows up and......
Fred4Pres said...
"The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.
Mick is our hedgehog!"
Not sure what that means, but yes it is THE big thing, the biggest thing. Congress, w/ the help of International Bankers have muscled in an ineligible POTUS for the explicit purpose of the degradation of the US Constitution. Maybe you can answer the question which no one that thinks I am wrong can answer.
If the INTENT of the natural born Citizen requirement was to prevent foreign influence, then how can Obama, admittedly born British, of a British subject, never American Citizen father, be a natural born Citizen, eligible to be POTUS?
The country of the father is the country of the son.
Vattel's Law of Nations
Chapter 19 Sect. 212:
"it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner".
And this:
"The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights."
The precedent of Minor v. Happersett (1874):
"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."
And here, from Federalist #68:
"Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union? But the convention have guarded against all danger of this sort, with the most provident and judicious attention."
And John Jay request that the requirement be inserted:
“Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.”
How is it then possible that Obama born of a foreign father, and perhaps naturalized by the 14A be a natural born Citizen, eligible to be POTUS?
KenK wrote:
If you want to attack, criticize or question BHO's ties to slumlords (Rezko et al.), bigots (Rev. Wright), kooks (Fr. Pfleger) or terrorists (Bill Ayers) and what that says about him then by all means. do so Those are choices Obama made and the consequences or outcomes good or bad are on him. But stuff his parents and grandparents did isn't. I hope you agree.
In this case, I don't completely agree because Obama chose to make his own story a centerpiece of his campaign and his political life, to write not one but two autobiographies, and to name the first in a way that reflected on his father. Furthermore, his highly unorthodox upbringing (and the views of his mother, his grandparents, their associates, and to a lesser degree, his father) goes a long way to explain some of his rather questionable views, associates, and affiliations in adulthood. After all, as Obama wrote in "Dreams": "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night,in the dorms,we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism,and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling constraints. We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated." He has a long history of embracing the political views of the far left, and some of that goes back to the way in which he was raised.
I wonder if this:
http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/07/07/atty-orly-taitz-files-motion-to-compel-in-social-security-case/
Has anything to do with This:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2011/07/07/father_spoke_of_having_obama_adopted/
Obama's enigma is more a question of integrity.
Since Obama won't answer your questions directly, we must assume it's a lack of integrity passed to him through the loins of his father.
Just think, if he had been adopted by the Smiths, he would be known today as Barry Smith. Some of you would know him, he'd be working in one of the state's motor vehicle department.
KenK,
"I am rather doubtful that any amount of amateur psychoanalysis on our part is going to give us much insight about his character."
Not true at all - we can look at someone's actions and words, and get a considerable amount of insight into their character. And the more knowledge one has about someone's formative years, the more you can learn about what inspires them/guides them.
garage mahal said...
Since Obama won't answer your questions directly, we must assume it's a lack of integrity passed to him through the loins of his father.
More likely he learned it at his mamma's knee as a defence mechanism. This quirk seems more nurture than nature.
_____________
wv = consh. "Consh" is the language spoken by cons (conservatives not convicts). Not that conservatives don't have convictions.
America used to have "orphan trains." Abandoned kids were put on these trains. And, at each stop along the way ... farmers and their wives would come on board. And, choose a kid to take.
And, then. When I was in my twenties. And, living in Manhattan. I met a friend. She was gorgeous! White blonde! Born in germany. (Early 1940's.) When she was five, her mom died. And, her dad put her in an orphanage.
She described what it was like. (I'm talking about a beautiful woman, who had been a stunningly beautiful child.) And, women didn't want her! She was turned down. Finally, at about the age of ten, she was adopted.
She left home at an early age. She became an airline stewardess. And, when I met her, she was working for Revlon. (Charles Revson was a pig. On the order of DSK.)
Is being pretty an advantage?
I always thought so.
But being in an orphanage. Hoping someone will adopt ya? Lousy at both ends.
Germany was a mess!
So, when it came to evaluating Obama's history? I thought he was lucky. I thought he was born to a mom who wasn't married. There never was a wedding ceremony in February 1961. But the story "stuck" because the worst thing in the world at that time was NOT having a father identified on your birth certificate!
Did the grandparents ship their daughter "state side?" YES! Why? Because of SHAME! And, how it would have looked as Stanley Ann Dunham's pregnancy began to show.
YES! The Vatican kept records! Illegitimate births were their specialty. The details are kept under lock and key. Adult adoptees were NEVER given access!
Ayres, on the other hand, developed the story as POLITICAL THEATER!
Oh, by the way, you think Joe Kennedy was around when Rose was in labor? You think he actually gave a shit?
Try this one out. A catholic wedding ceremony delivers nothing but POLITICAL THEATER if your dad's Joe Kennedy.
Heck, it even provided Teddy with a cathedral funeral! Real estate in another universe. Believe it. Or not.
Oh, yeah. Didn't Bill Clinton "borrow" a name from someone his mother married?
Do you think Bill Clinton was born in Hope? Or not?
While I do believe Bristol Palin is a fine mom! Where now it's unusual for teenagers to carry to term. Unusual, too, for them to have to seek out unwed mother's homes.
Be grateful to your parents. They don't owe you a single thing.
Maybe I just missed it..but I have wondered why there was so little discussion about the influence of the grandfather (mom's side). Was he not the adult male he had the longest time around?
walter said...
Maybe I just missed it..but I have wondered why there was so little discussion about the influence of the grandfather (mom's side). Was he not the adult male he had the longest time around?
That goes to what I tried to get at by "rejection" at 1:13 and 3:43
We have this image that immigrants are so innocent and downtrodden and uninformed yet Obama Sr. was gaming our immigration system 50 years ago and the hotel maid prostitute showed us it is still being gamed today.
Nope. Grandpa was a ding-a-ling.
Grandparents don't even come on board until Obama's two or three.
And, by the time Barry is six, off he goes with mom. To Indonesia. And, he's renamed Soetoro.
A happy camper?
Are you kidding me? Are you trying to pull my finger?
Stanley Ann's marriage was kaput by the time Barry turns 19. It's 1980. Except for the cast album to The King and I ... English wasn't what he heard spoken. But he's delighted to come back to the States. And, he erases all traces of Soetoro. You know what? I don't blame him!
A kid who grows up close to his mom. Because that's all he has. And, he has a putrid relationship with his step-dad. Who "stepped in" as the real dad. Means that this is where you'd look to "develop" this story.
Just as Joe Kennedy is the creep in pants, in the life of all his children. Can't fool me.
Camelot was not a real place!
Just because Jackie looked great in clothes, doesn't mean she was happy.
And, we've been glossing over reality when we accept the tall tales that get manufactured for public consumption.
I don't blame obama for the gullibility of people. For a man of mediocre talents he shot through the system like nobody's business. He didn't even have to become governor of Arkansas.
And, back in 1980 ... it looked like the republicans were going to advance in the lead ... they'd never get overtaken by democraps.
Politics, like horse racing, is designed to separate you from your money.
Since Obama won't answer your questions directly, we must assume it's a lack of integrity passed to him through the loins of his father.
Not necessarily, garage.
Some are born to lack of integrity, some aspire to it, and some have lack of integrity thrust upon them.
The jury's still out on the cause of Obama's lack.
Dunno Carol,
I thought he was with his grandparents during early adolescence up to graduation. So Grandpa was a "ding a ling"? WTF?
The absent father is [G]od. Project upon Him or him anything you wish. Or he's the devil, take your pick.
Hell, the greatest primary epic of all, the Odyssey, explored Telemachus' search for daddy in great detail.
Absent daddy still drives most of the mythologizing done in postmodern culture.
Carol Herman wrote:
Politics, like horse racing, is designed to separate you from your money.
Danny Thomas wrote:
A race track is a place where windows clean people
__________
WINDOWS is an operating system designed to separate politics from horse racing.
exhelodrvr1
He has a long history of embracing the political views of the far left, and some of that goes back to the way in which he was raised.
No. Real life isn't always like that. David Horowitz was raised by parents who in the CPUSA. He's now a uber right-wing activist. Ron Reagan Jr. was raised by RR and Nancy and look at him now. Unless you guys are historians with a background in psychology all your research is just dirt digging, plain and simple.
And what do you expect to find? (Now that the BC has been released.)That BHO appointed someone a federal judge because his dad smoked Marlboro and not a pipe? That he was potty trained too early or late?
Bottom line: We have the right to vote or not for BHO based on his performance and stands on issues. Not who his parents and grandparents are or what they did. Maybe Charlie Manson's son will be president. Or should he be debarred for the Tate Killings his father did? Just askin'.
Citizenship gained by accident of birth locale only got into the Constitution in 1868.
Before that, natural born meant born an American, not a subject of another nation. That could be someone inside the US that never had any expectation of citizenship or loyalty to a distant land, or born to American blood overseas and never considered anything but an American citizen.
The fetish on accident of birth locale is more recent, and nothing like what the Founders envisioned when they talked about citizenship. It was mostly talk of loyalty - owing no fealty to another ruler or culture.
Mick is so lost in post-1868 "location, location, location" he can't envision pre-1868 rules and remains willfully ignorant that those paths to natural American citizenship were not banned in the 14th Amendment.
KenK said...
No. Real life isn't always like that.
No it's not, but it often is. Children often reject their parent's political views. Entire generations have rejected their parent's political views. In the case of POTUS, there are written statements by him that his mother influenced and shaped his political views more than anyone else. In his case, surrounded by non-Americans in a foreign country, this is all the more plausible. His case is more unsual than anyone else's whom you mentioned for at least that reason.
Unless you guys are historians with a background in psychology all your research is just dirt digging, plain and simple.
I find that statement condescending plus it reminds me of 7M when he gets on his legal high horse: "you guys don't know the first thing about law."
But please keep making your case for judging POTUS's performance on the issues only.
Shanna: Letters to my Grandmother could have been quite a meaningful book.
Yeah, but then during the presidential campaign Obama threw his grandma under the bus.
Dirt digging?
With a book that includes his father in the title, he basically invites a look at who in his family really are influential. perhaps figuring it was a messy situation, thought he'd define it to his own liking. Made a lot of money off that book and helped him get where he is. But yes...now there is more to judge him on. but if he says his past is pivotal, don't be surprised if people (not just psychologists) yap about it.
KenK,
" Real life isn't always like that"
No shit. Sometimes people take the opposite path of their parents.
But now you are saying that someone's upbringing/environment/what they gives no indication of how they will act as an adult. Just curious - at what point are we allowed to start paying attention? Should we ignore where they went to college? How well they did in college? Whether they were in the military or not? Whether they come from a long line of pastors or military officers or school teachers? Would you say that looking at Jesse Jackson, Jr.'s father gives no indication to what Jesse Jackson, Jr's priorities and values are?
KenK,
"Maybe Charlie Manson's son will be president. Or should he be debarred for the Tate Killings his father did?"
We should certainly be allowed to ask what influence his father had on him, and what influence his father's crimes and associated publicity had on him.
Chickenlitte @ 6:18PM ...
That's funny.
I love to see people "riff." I love to see wisdom in a wise crack.
Which is why I love Mark Twain, too.
While Danny Thomas proved you didn't need a nose job to be a star.
Carol herman wrote: Danny Thomas proved you didn't need a nose job to be a star.
Not just Thomas but also Jimmy Durante. They all used to hang out here back in the day.
Ann: Why — let's ask the question again — did Barack Obama, Jr. write a book called "Dreams From My Father"? Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?
More dysfunction; now we drive at the heart of this Obama 'phenom' (up is down, down is up, ignore the obvious elephant in the room etc.) ...
.
@Hagar it is quite plausible that she sent him to her parents in Hawaii to get him away from that.
I thought Mom and Barry were back in Hawaii (with little sister?) and Mom decided to go back to Indonesia.
I think BHO wrote somewhere he didn't want to go back? Or Mom decided he would stay with g'parents.... not sure why, haven't read the books.
Either way that kept him in the circle of his grandfather (a strange guy, apparently) and Grandpa's buddy, black communist Frank Marshall Davis.
Sterling role models.
txrxqa said...
"Ann: Why — let's ask the question again — did Barack Obama, Jr. write a book called "Dreams From My Father"? Why did this man, rather than his mother, deserve to be the centerpiece of his autobiography?"
Simple. He was ensuring that the knowledge of his father's foreign citizenship was before the eyes of the public, so that he could set precedent and change the meaning of natural born Citizen. Leftists had tried to achieve that goal 8 times between 2003-2008. When those efforts failed (A2S1C5 must be amended)they muscled in a Usurper. Obama was born British, of a British subject father, and is not eligible under the precedent of Minor v. Happersett, i.e that natural born Citizens are born in the US of 2 US Citizen parents.
Chester Arthur was the first Usuper, but the fact of his foreign father was never before the public, and it was only recently discovered that his father was not naturalized until Chester was 14. Arthur relied on public outcry regarding his PLACE of birth, which many thought was Canada, and lied about his family history, going so far as to burn all family history before his death. Fraud is not precedent, but Obama surely knows that history and is using it now, thus the controversy about WHERE he was born, which hides the real issue of his foreigner father. Unfortunately for him, millions are now aware of his Usurpation, and will force his resignation, or otherwise challenge his eligibility in the next election, when millions will have legal standing that thus far has been denied by the Courts.
Cedarford said...
"Citizenship gained by accident of birth locale only got into the Constitution in 1868.
Before that, natural born meant born an American, not a subject of another nation. That could be someone inside the US that never had any expectation of citizenship or loyalty to a distant land, or born to American blood overseas and never considered anything but an American citizen.
The fetish on accident of birth locale is more recent, and nothing like what the Founders envisioned when they talked about citizenship. It was mostly talk of loyalty - owing no fealty to another ruler or culture.
Mick is so lost in post-1868 "location, location, location" he can't envision pre-1868 rules and remains willfully ignorant that those paths to natural American citizenship were not banned in the 14th Amendment."
Of course you are wrong and Obfuscating.
The definition of natural born Citizens has never changed by the 14th A. There is NO MENTION of changing A2S1C5 in the debates of the 14A, and as a matter of fact, the definition later adopted in Minor v. Happersett, i.e born in the US of US Citizens, was spoken ny the WRITER of the 14A John Bingham, during those debates,. Notice the words "natural born" never appear in the 14A, nor in Congressional naturalization laws. That is because natural born Citizens need no statute to make them US Citizens, including the 14A. Natural born Citizenship is a condition of birth. What else would one be if born on US Soil of 2 US Citizen parents? Obama needed the 14A if born in Hi of a British subject father to be considered a US Citizen, thus he is not natural born, and NOT eligible.
Your scare tactic, based on fears of nativism, are Obfuscation. The concept of natural born Citizenship or Original Citizenship does not prevent anyone from being a US Citizen, but only the children of those naturalized as US Citizens are natural born Citizens, eligible for POTUS. It's a Security measure.
exhelodrvr1 said...
KenK,
"Maybe Charlie Manson's son will be president. Or should he be debarred for the Tate Killings his father did?"
We should certainly be allowed to ask what influence his father had on him, and what influence his father's crimes and associated publicity had on him."
That is exactly the purpose of A2S1C5. Charlie Manson's son would be eligible as long as he was a US Citizens, and he was married to a US Citizen mother. There is no Corruption by Blood. But imagine for a second a US Citizen mother marrying Kim Jong Il, or his son, then having his child on US soil. That is why it requires the insulation of 2 generations of US Citizenship to produce a natural born Citizen. It is a security requirement. The founders were not natural born Citizens either (they were born British), so they grandfathered themselves in as eligible, but that expired (as to birth) after the ratification of the US Constitution.
After reading these posts, I realize what a rorschach test Obama has become for folks as we take train rides to the Vatican to check long form birth records or judge the effects of single parent hood. Of course few folks write honest autobiographies about themselves, particularly when running for office. Check out the many exaggerations from Michele Bachmann, for example. But as a number posts have noted, Obama managed to transcend many of the faults/flaws of his parents, and his so-called race baiting training does not quite explain that.
Jesus, I haven't checked this thread - and never realized y'all were so confused - or else I would've dropped this on you a long time ago.
A lot of your questions are answered there.
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