May 17, 2011

What's with these European men — Dominique Straus-Kahn and Arnold Schwarzenegger — and sex with the servants?

First, Arnold Schwarzenegger — though not a natural-born American and therefore not qualified to serve as the U.S. President — has been a naturalized American for a long time. But I want to call attention to his continent of origin for the purposes of discussion this week, when we are all focused on Dominique Straus-Kahn, the IMF and French presidential candidate, who was just arrested for attempted rape on a hotel maid.

Schwarzenegger, we learn today, fathered a child with a woman who had been "a member of his household staff" for 20 years. His press release says that Maria Shriver left him when he informed her about it. Like she didn't know previously?! He deliberately waited until his term as California governor was over, he says. I think it's more likely that she deliberately waited until his term as California governor was over. Or is she stupid?

Both men have committed adultery. DSK has, allegedly, attempted rape. Schwarzenegger has committed that special offense to marriage of fathering a child. But I'd like to focus on the way both of these powerful, ambitious men — who could have found willing women out in the world — went for the women who were working in their place of abode — the house and the hotel room. It's so lazy... so entitled... so unfair to the women who will be torn between the desire to run away and the need to keep her job.

161 comments:

AllenS said...

Bill Clinton isn't European.

Seeing Red said...

Maids, Interns, what's the diff?

No one cares, it's personal. Has nothing to do w/the public job. Shouldn't affect the job at all.

As long as they do good works.....


It shouldn't matter what they do behind closed doors or who they hang around cough cough.

Roman said...

I think it is more like the old joke: 'Why does the dog lay in the driveway and lick his balls? Because he can.'

Seeing Red said...

ahhh it doesn't like the carrots -

so, hang around w/Bill & Bernie - or once removed from the SDS which visited your fair city recently.

It's for the people, don'tcha know!

Pogo said...

Unless there's coercion, it appears that all parties involved seem to gain something here.

Meaning: women are attracted to men who are often unfaithful. In modern times, that attraction is considered a problem for men to solve, even while infidelity is encouraged.


Shorter: Women like bad boys.

Sixty Grit said...

John Edwards isn't European, of course his baby momma isn't household help, either.

Me, I'd rather hike the Appalachian Trail...

Henry said...

Nothing beats proximity.

I would be wary of declaring these parallel cases, other than in the timing. The consent issue is pretty huge. We also don't know who Arnold's paramour was.

Strau-Kahn is alleged to have attacked a maid. For all we know Arnold seduced a lawyer. Or a dog trainer. Someone on his staff, anyway.

I'm sure we'll know that is soon enough.

Squid said...

I suspect it's closely related to the statistic about how most accidents occur within a couple miles of your house.

bagoh20 said...

Rape vs adultery. There is a reason one will put you in prison for a long time. They should not be dicsussed as if they are the same thing.

Pogo said...

So Arnold is a Kennedy after all.

Maria Shriver: I'm shocked **shocked** to find that infidelity is going on in here!

rhhardin said...

Don't forget Jefferson.

bagoh20 said...

I never hear men talk about rape and adultery as the same. Must be a feminist thing.

edutcher said...

It's an old Euro tradition called droit de seigneur; the nobles had the right to graze on peasant wenches when and where they felt like it.

What surprises me is that Maria objected. She's a Kennedy. You'd think she'd be used to it.

In fact, Ahnold was a piker compared to her cousins and grandfather.

bagoh20 said...

Oh yea, I remember what it is: All sex is rape.

Scott M said...

I'd like to have sex with my servant girls too. I'd like to have servant girls. Hell, I'd settle for servants.

There's a vestigial streak of aristocrat in every European. It's why they do socialism so well.

Richard Dolan said...

"It's so lazy... so entitled... so unfair to the women who will be torn between the desire to run away and the need to keep her job."

You left out the detail that it's also always been the way of the world. Plantation barons (e.g., Thomas Jefferson) come to mind, as do medieval popes, kings and aristocrats beyond counting, and on and on.

Titus said...

Maybe it's the convenience factor.

They don't have to go out looking for it when it is cleaning up their pinched loaves.

rhhardin said...

Armstrong and Getty: Maria: "I'm a Kennedy. We don't do this sort of thing." slams door

Hoosier Daddy said...

Well in Arnie's case maybe Maria wasn't takin care of bidness. If a man can't get a home cooked dinner don't be surprised if he goes for takeout.

Just sayin

Bob Ellison said...

I saw a bit of The Today Show this morning on the Schwarzenegger love-child. The anchor and the invited guest agreed that the love-child him/herself would be "devastated", as would Arnold's other children, by the knowledge of the child's true parentage.

That's the mainstream media there, conferring shame on a child.

bagoh20 said...

Europeans aren't individuals. You can't expect anything from any one of them. You have to take them as a group.

Irene said...

What edutcher just said: European men view household staff as part of the household property. This sort of thing has been going on over there for centuries. I know of a distant relative in the old country whose maid suddenly was sent off to a convent, pregnant, in the 1940s.

This "household" observation does not apply to Dominique Straus-Kahn, but he probably had the "seigneur" mindset (and big time because of his status).

Consider the "French maid" joke.

Seeing Red said...

At least Maria can string 2 sentences together. Caro ay yi yi!

I was shocked to hear her speak w/o notes.

Ricardo said...

"It's an old Euro tradition called droit de seigneur ...."

Catherine the Great turned it into an art form. So it's not just men, although women tend to be much more discrete. Are women just better at this?

Peter Hoh said...

How is it that the tabloids never caught on to the Schwarzenegger scandal?

Maguro said...

Sometimes these things make more sense when you remember that we're basically hairless apes.

Titus said...

John Ensign was best friends with the whore he fucked and when she moved into his house he then did her.

Proximity is the key.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"Meaning: women are attracted to men who are often unfaithful."

Everyone likes a challenge. Even moreso when fame and fortune are involved.

Doug Wright said...

Nice edgy url!

Titus said...

Men are only as faithful as their options.

If straight men had all the options of a gay man they would be whores too.

bagoh20 said...

It's not the class, but the opportunity. All men are pigs.

It almost sounds like the womeninvolved are objects that men either use or don't use correctly.

Scott M said...

The anchor and the invited guest agreed that the love-child him/herself would be "devastated", as would Arnold's other children, by the knowledge of the child's true parentage.

Is it a boy? If so, he could always head to the Wall and take the black.

Seeing Red said...

..."as would Arnold's other children, by the knowledge of the child's true parentage...."


Depends on whether the kid looked in the mirror. Or the kid's friends. Or those parents.

Jack Wayne said...

All of you banging on Jefferson. You have no proof of the assertion. Stop it.

ndspinelli said...

Worked my share of criminal and civil sex abuse/harassment cases. Sometimes criminal cases involve the Arnold and Frenchy scenario, but those usually end up in civil litigation. One of the most blatant involved a sales meeting. It was several men and one woman sitting in a meeting room. It came time for lunch and they were discussing what to order. The boss whipped out his dick, laid it on the table in front of the woman and said, "How about this for lunch?"

So much of sexual harassment is horseshit pc old school feminism horseshit. What is NOT horseshit is the unequal power relationship on the job. That's real, and assholes like these two do it all the time.

Moose said...

@Titus - I think Barney Frank found that same convenience when he moved in with his male escort/aide/intern...

Pogo said...

Now Maria understands what he meant when Arnold said he really admired JFK, RFK, Uncle Teddy and the paterfamilias Joseph Kennedy.


Schwarzenflounder: ""Oh, boy, is this great!

Seeing Red said...

I thought they actually decided it was Jeffereson's brother's child?

Johanna Lapp said...

Rule Number One: You don't eat where you shit.

Titus said...

I agree Moose, Barney Frank is a whore. A funny whore but a whore.

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

The servants are just there to be used, for whatever.

Clean the house, drive the car, polish your helmet....

Bob Ellison said...

Titus, that's foolish. Some, perhaps most, men are actually faithful. Me, for example. Most of the men I know, in fact, including several gay men.

Faithfulness is a decision as much as a market reality.

Ricardo said...

The one obvious common thread is that both men had several warnings over the years that their conduct was going to get them in trouble (You listening, LiLo?) and they kept going and going and going despite the obvious conclusions that one day they would get into REAL trouble.

Scott M said...

Rule Number One: You don't eat where you shit.

I'm fairly certain that rule only applies to hotels that cost less than $2000 a night. Once you're over that cost level, all of the staff should be considered wanting it at all times. Right?

Robert said...

Personally, I think it is instinctive. If I was a rich, powerful man with a fragile trophy wife, it would be quite exciting to see a hardworking, exotic women doing things around the house. An intellectual man learns to appreciate those who do the dirty jobs, especially if they are good looking young women. I would chase a sexy, middle aged illegal housekeeper in a minute, and probably never end up regretting it.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

But I'd like to focus on the way both of these powerful, ambitious men — who could have found willing women out in the world — went for the women who were working in their place of abode...

Hannibal Lecter: ...He covets. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? ...
No. We begin by coveting what we see every day.

MarkG said...

If I did my arithmetic correctly, Arnold's staffer worked for them 5 years after giving birth. I'm not seeing her as a victim here.

Not at all like the DSK case.

bagoh20 said...

I expect Arnold is happy as shit about this breakup. Why rich famous men get married, I don't understand. It rarely works out.

Snark said...

Marlon Brando had a baby with the hired help as well.

Seeing Red said...

Now that's a coincidence.

Pondering what's for lunch?

I hope I would have had the presence of mind to ask for a machete so I can feed it to him myself w/fava beans & a nice bottle of Chianti.

Ann Althouse said...

"Well in Arnie's case maybe Maria wasn't takin care of bidness. If a man can't get a home cooked dinner don't be surprised if he goes for takeout."

But he didn't go out! To keep this old observation on point, you need to tweak it. Maria wasn't cooking for him, so he looked to see what was in the refrigerator. He was that lazy. Here is a rich, glamorous man. He could have gone out to dinner in the nicest restaurant in town, but he scavenged for whatever was around in the kitchen.

I'm not saying Maria didn't provide enough sex or approving of that old excuse for adultery. I'm just saying he didn't go out. He used his power to give jobs to appealing women and keep them in his house for his use. That's the offense I'm focusing on.

Shouting Thomas said...

This issue was fully explicated in the South Park "Sexual Healing" episode.

You guys missed it?

Titus said...

I agree with you Bob. I have been completely faithful to my husband...I can't believe I said that.


I should of said SOME men are only as faithful as their options.

Also, sometimes a really big set of tits can be very distracting. The challenge is not to want to touch those tits.

What the fuck is your URL Althouse?

tits.

FedkaTheConvict said...

How is it that the tabloids never caught on to the Schwarzenegger scandal?

The tabloids were sniffing around but it was covered up. Remember all the groping allegations before Arnold's election?

This is a man who formed a group to push for the constitutional Amendment that would allow him to run for president...all the while knowing fully well that he had this and other skeletons in his closet.... TMZ is estimating that at least 13 women will come forward...he might outstrip Tiger before the end of the day.

Jason said...

I suspect this whole thing is part of an elaborate marketing campaign in support of the release of Jane Eyre.

Titus said...

When you scavenger you can find hotness. You don't necessarily have to go out for a nice piece of meat.

Any hotties next door Althouse?

Titus said...

The thought of cheating for me is too much work. I just don't have the energy.

Also, I would be racked with guilt that I probably couldn't live with myself.

I do look at hotness all the time though. And unfortunately, in Wisconsin, there is minimal hot. That may be a plus.

Humperdink said...

(formerly rick)

Pogo... Schwarzenflounder: ""Oh, boy, is this great!

Thread winner, nearly fell out of my chair laughing.

RuyDiaz said...

You left out the detail that it's also always been the way of the world. Plantation barons (e.g., Thomas Jefferson) come to mind, as do medieval popes, kings and aristocrats beyond counting, and on and on.

Yes. It is the same all over Latin America, in households that hire servants. And it isn't restricted to 'the man of the house' either; a considerable number of young men from those households had their first sexual experience with one of the maids.

Kirby Olson said...

It's probably similar to "geographic profiling" which was once discussed on the crime show NUMB3RS. Criminals tend to strike near their own home. So if you can get the general pattern for all the murders in a serial killers' path you can do a spatial analysis that helps to pinpoint the probable home of the killer. In this case with a serial philanderer or rapist as it were you can just figure they will strike at the women who are close by: droit de seigneur they called it in the Middle Ages, or today, droit de cuissage is a term I've heard from wealthy men in Paris. Les cuisses are the thighs. If you employ a woman, her thighs, they think, and all else, belongs to them. Simone de Beauvoir did the same thing with her female students (some were only 16). Countess Elizabeth of Bathory actually felt entitled to murder her servants after raping them, and then bathed in their blood while eating cake. It's a European thing, pan-gender.

John Lynch said...

See my comments down in the great scientist thread.

Again, power corrupts.

Carol said...

"Why rich famous men get married, I don't understand."

He married a KENNEDY & network news babe. She was practically a social equal. Rich guys will do that for access or cachet or whatever floats their boat.

Shouting Thomas said...

I think that we're making a distinction here that is non-existent.

The DSKs and Schwarzeneggers aren't just banging the help. They're banging everything they can get their hands on.

Banging the help just got them in trouble.

Tight Ass wins the thread:

If straight men had all the options of a gay man they would be whores too.

Feminist women are such a pain in the ass, wanting to rebuild the world in some semblance of propriety. The only brake on male sexuality is women digging in their heels and saying "No!"

And, the dreary reality of this world, is that is what most women want to do.

The feminist women have upped the ante of female awfulness by a million times by simultaneously championing sexual harassment and slut walks.

It really sucks being hetero at times.

GridWizard said...

It is bit like the Presdient of the United States having an affair with a White House Intern

G Joubert said...

"It's so lazy... so entitled... so unfair to the women who will be torn between the desire to run away and the need to keep her job."

It doesn't appear to apply in the DSK case, but there's always the flip side: women who know full well what they've got and how to use it to get what they want/need. Women aren't necessarily ipso facto hapless victims in the symbiotic dance between the sexes. Particularly when it comes to schtupping the boss.

Pogo said...

Release of the second chakra requires help.

Hired help.

Not what one was hired for, usually, but there it is.

Second chakras are a bitch, man. There you are, minding your own business when **THWAP**, there it is, lying on the table.

Shouting Thomas said...

I Want to Be Bad.

Scott M said...

Can we please stop referring to the man as DSK? I'm sure he prefers KAAAAAAAAAHN!!!!!

Pogo said...

Schwarzenchakra: "Any day now, any day now
I shall be released.
"

Balfegor said...

Re: Peter Hoh:

How is it that the tabloids never caught on to the Schwarzenegger scandal?

She was a domestic, no? Don't need to go to fancy hotels and so on where jackal journalists are waiting -- just wait until the wife is away.

That said, the Schwarzenegger situation seems different from DSK and Clinton precisely because she was a domestic -- in contrast, interns and maids at large hotels might as well be total strangers. Not sure how to articulate it, but it seems like a big difference in the nature of the power relation. On the one hand, going after strangers using impersonal, official power seems more depraved. On the other, going after your own servants heightens the power disparity much more. It is a different kind of depravity. But at the same time, the relations between masters and servants can be complicated, I suppose.

It's also not a European thing only. In the Dream of the Red Chamber, for example, Jia Baoyu seduces his maid. Or is it maids? I forget. Anyhow -- a reminder of Zhu-zi's wisdom:

童僕勿用俊美

Do not judge by physical appearance when hiring servants.

edutcher said...

Agree with Jack Wayne about Jefferson. Miss Hemmings was used to excuse Willie's serial rapes and infidelities ("He's in good company", "He's hardly the first", etc.).

Little evidence to support the claim except that Sally was Martha Jefferson's half-sister, bearing a supposedly strong resemblance, and, after he was widowed, Jefferson became quite fond of her. Most credible historians believe it was a nephew (cousin?) that may have done the mischief.

While some planters may have indulged themselves, there was a racial opprobrium involved and it wasn't quite as OK as it was in Europe.

Ricardo said...

"It's an old Euro tradition called droit de seigneur ...."

Catherine the Great turned it into an art form. So it's not just men, although women tend to be much more discrete. Are women just better at this?


Cathy indulged mostly with her social equals, although I think Irene will agree with me that she was a fun date and had a lot of young Guardsmen notched on her bedpost before she ran the show.

Women generally don't seem to go in for this stuff as much. With women looking better at later ages, that might change, though human nature doesn't seem to work that way. Women seem to be wired in a different way, a deeper emotional attraction seems to be necessary for most.

PS And the horse was Bonapartist propaganda.

Pogo said...

"Can we please stop referring to the man as DSK? I'm sure he prefers KAAAAAAAAAHN!!!!!"

Chakra Kahn?

FedkaTheConvict said...

I've watched Drudge since this news broke last night and not one mention yet.

Cedarford said...

In all this I hope there is some respect for the Love Child.

As the product of a slutty woman attracted to exotic cock and an intelligent, philandering foreigner - he just might be President some day.

jamie said...

Yeah, I remember when Newt, Engisn, Vitter, Sanford, etc. were all born in Europe!

gerry said...

Europeans are too sophisticated to be bothered with petty moral concerns.

Phil 3:14 said...

Less "European" and more

"Power"

Titus said...

The woman seemed to get a good deal.

She got fucked by a powerful, somewhat handsome man and now she is going to be paid for having that kid for the rest of her life.

She also received "severance".

She will be ok.

Martha said...

Arnold's paramour has been reported to have worked as a stewardess on Arnold's private jet so she may not have been "household help".

Not yet mentioned is Strom Thurmond's love child --the mother was a Black 16 year old household maid.

Wikipedia: Six months after Thurmond's death in 2003, it was revealed that at age 22 he had fathered a daughter, Essie Mae Washington-Williams, with his family's African-American maid Carrie Butler, then 16. Although Thurmond never publicly acknowledged his daughter, he paid for her college education and passed other money to her for some time. The Thurmond family acknowledged her.[6] Washington-Williams is eligible for the Daughters of the American Revolution and the United Daughters of the Confederacy through her Thurmond connections.

traditionalguy said...

The aristocrats empowerment to take other men's women and daughters is a Roman Empire perk passed down. The Puritans, Pilgrims and Presbys who came here and ruled in North America kicked out the king and his Aristocracy and declared men equal under the law just to tell the Roman Empire guys to go to hell. But now they want to reconquer us riding on a New World Order Currency control.And Obama's every move is aimed at helping that to happen by bankrupting the USA.

Shouting Thomas said...

She will be ok.

See, Tight Ass, this is where you fags get all the breaks.

The mistress of this site will just laugh because you wrote it. We straights don't get that dispensation.

Am I too old at 61 to stop sleeping with women?

SteveR said...

Snip Snip Arnold. A few days of inconvenience well worth it.

Titus said...

You are never too old ST to sleep with a woman.

edutcher said...

jamie said...

Yeah, I remember when Newt, Engisn, Vitter, Sanford, etc. were all born in Europe!

I don't think they forced themselves on the hired help.

Hoosier Daddy said...

...."But he didn't go out! To keep this old observation on point, you need to tweak it. Maria wasn't cooking for him, so he looked to see what was in the refrigerator...."

Ok so he got himself a personal chef.

chickenlittle said...

Two things:

(1) I hope no cigars are harmed in Schwartzenegger's next film and;

(2) I hope this has nothing to do with why he caved to the CA public service unions.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I would have thought Arnie smoking a joint in Pumping Iron would have been more damaging then him having an affair. The dude was star bodybuilder and movie star. Thats part of the job description

Mick said...

Are you bating me Prof. Althouse? What purpose does it serve to say that Ahnold is not a natural born Citizen? OK, I'll bite. What would you say exactly is a natural born Citizen? My guess is you would say one that is not naturalized (as evidenced by your post). Wouldn't those born in the US of 1 or more alien parents be naturalized by the current flawed (Wong Kim Ark induced) understanding of the 14th Amendment? Naturalization can be by oath or by statute, and the 14 Amendment is a statute, is it not? Only those born in the US of 2 US Citizen parents need no statute to be a US Citizen. What else would they be? Natural born Citizens are those born in a country of PARENTS who are it's citizens, or as Tribe would say, "born Within the Territory and ALLEGIANCE of a nation." Barack Obama, at best, was naturalized by the 14th Amendment, thus not an eligible natural born Citizen. Why would a "law prof" vote for him?

James said...

Rush kicking off his show today:

"Arnold's mistake was in thinking he was a Kennedy. At the end of the day he's just a Schwarzenegger...hehehe..."

Lem said...

Don't for get Al Gore and his happy endings ;)

Chip said...

Seems odd to assume that Schwarzenegger "went for" (as in seduced/ravished/whatevered) his maid, when it is pretty clear on the surface that it was the maid who stood to benefit (in evolutinoary and material terms) from the dalliance/affair/whatever. Women are drawn to powerful men for Darwinian reasons that are scored in terms of reproductive success. She won the lottery.

ALH said...

Are you assuming that the two men didn't have other affairs with women "out in the world"? I would be willing to bet that both did.

So it's not just that they are "lazy"...

Roman nailed it at 0942 - dog, balls, licking.

William said...

Tolstoy raped most of the peasant women on his estates. The numbers were in the hundreds, possibly the thousands. Then came The Revolution to redress these grievances....Beria felt that one of the perks of his job as director of the secret police was the right to rape any woman who caught his fancy. I don't know the numbers, but they must have been considerable. Then there was Sergei Kirov, the Bolshevik boss of Leningrad. He founded the Kirov Ballet so as to have a ready supply of nookie. A stroke of genius. I'm not so naive as to think that all ballerinas look like Natalie Portman, but, by and large, they are better looking than chambermaids and farm workers. And ballerinas will go the extra mile to land a featured role. You get none of that sullen resentment that makes raping chambermaids such a drag.....It's all very well to speak of droit du seigneur, but the droits du commissar were truly the high water mark of nookie entitlement for powerful men.

Trooper York said...

Wait a minute? A movie star was banging one of his assitants and she got knocked up. Jeez that never happesn.

Trooper York said...

These are too totally different things and should not be in the same thread at all.

If you want to bring up the woman he allegedly groped that would be fine. But having a "love child" implies love of some sort I think. Just sayn.

Trooper York said...

Pluse Eunice....I mean Maria always struck me as an emaciated, nagging shrew.

Stay away from those skinny broads boys. They will cut you with their sharp tongues and boney twats. Get a girl with a little junk in the trunk. Just sayn'

Trooper York said...

Late breaking News!!!!!

TMZ just posted a photo of the maid Arnold knocked up.

HKatz said...

The only brake on male sexuality is women digging in their heels and saying "No!"

But that isn't enough. Other brakes need to be in place: the ability to enforce their "No!" when it isn't heeded - by means of personal protection and defense, and also by criminal prosecution. (And men can also put a brake on their own sexuality, both in response to a 'no' or in response to their own misgivings... and that kind of self-control varies with culture, upbringing and character).

I have no idea what went on between Arnold and his employee. It could have been exploitative or it could have been carried out with great willingness on the part of his employee - as other commenters have pointed out, different forms of this master-servant relationship have been going on throughout history, with different degrees of cruelty or callousness.

In any case, power goes to people's heads. With the result that otherwise intelligent people mess up their own lives and other people's lives in pursuit of their own gratification. They think they can get away with anything and damn the consequences.

Kirk Parker said...

edutcher,

The horse was French??? Figures, I guess...

TMink said...

These two, like Clinton, are sex addicts. Politics seems to over-represent sex addicts. They are driven to foolish behaviors by their addictions.

It seems pretty obvious to me. Strange nobody else I read had mentioned it.

Trey

Hagar said...

Bullshit, madame.

See Jane Goodall's accounts of bonobo chimpanzee social practices. This sort of behavior is universal to our species.

David said...

"Familiarity breeds attempt."

(I'm glad someone mentioned Strom Thurmond. It would be a shame to leave South Carolina out of this.)

mccullough said...

As long as Arnold is a father to the kid, then I don't care. Too many kids grow up without a father in their life. If he has been a shitty father to the kid, then fuck him.

Freder Frederson said...

See Jane Goodall's accounts of bonobo chimpanzee social practices. This sort of behavior is universal to our species.

Huh? you do realize that bonobos are a completely different species (genus in fact) and are separated from us by more than 3 million years of evolution.

newsvine90 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
newsvine90 said...

Men don't need a reason.

"Women need a reason. Men need a place."
Bill Cosby

Bruce Hayden said...

Huh? you do realize that bonobos are a completely different species (genus in fact) and are separated from us by more than 3 million years of evolution.

The genus is arguable, and it has been argued that we should be considered part of genus Pan, instead of Homo, but more realistically, that the two species of chimp should be considered part of genus homo instead of pans (under the rule of priority - Homo was named before Pan).

On the other hand, your estimate about when we separated is probably about half - more accurate would probably be 7-7 1/2 million years, with Bonobos (pygmy) chimps separating from common chimps a 1 - 1 1/2 million years ago.

Nevertheless, I would think that you would have to look at both species of chimps to see much in trends, and even then, a lot can change in that long of a split.

However, I think that there is a lot of evidence that human women have a tendency to mate with alpha males for their genes, even when they cannot marry them. If you look hard enough, you can see this underneath a lot of our social mores, not only in our western European descended society, but in many others. The flip side of this - the betas unknowingly raising the alphas kids as his own is why cultures kill adulterers, and, esp. the women.

The problem for the IMF guy (and, yes, Bill Clinton and Koby Bryant) is that while many, if not most, women are happy to oblige the alpha males, not all are. But with so many of them going along with it, they lose track of the fact that not all do. And trying to force themselves upon the (fairly few) unwilling women is when they get into trouble.

I would suggest that this is different from Schwarzenegger, John Edwards, etc., who ended up in trouble with willing women, not by forcing themselves on unwilling ones.

HKatz said...

But with so many of them going along with it, they lose track of the fact that not all do.

Losing track... what a benign way of looking at it. (Sort of like, oops, I forgot whether you're one of the willing ones or not, and there's no way I can tell, poor bewildered me.)

They fully realize that there are women who will go along with them willingly, and women who won't. I just don't think it makes a difference to them. For the women who won't go along, they figure they can force them and get away with it - either remain above the reach of the law, threaten them, or pay them to keep silent or whatever. It's calculated, and over the years it becomes a habit. (I'm talking about DSK here - I don't know what went on with Arnold.)

It also goes beyond sexual relations with women. Immoral powerful people exploit most other little people in their life (including subordinate men), one way or another, and break other laws and damage lives in other ways. It's part of a larger pattern.

shiloh said...

Since AA's premise: "What's with these European men has already easily been destroyed by giving "American" men credit as well lol, let me further deflect to another premise ...

Once upon a time many wingers were regretting Schwarzenegger not being a natural born citizen as Reps wanted Auuunold to run for president, such was the state of their sorry ass primary field of wannabes.

And of course today the situation hasn't changed as it's got worse!

mittens
Pawlenty
Daniels

Oh the humanity!

And let the record show it was Daniels wife who left her kids to fool around and marry someone else who was hopefully taller than Mitchell.

>

Breaking ...

All men on the planet cheat w/whatever is within reach. :-P

It's a guy thing going wayyy back to David and Bathsheba.

take care, blessings

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

Once upon a time many wingers were regretting Schwarzenegger not being a natural born citizen as Reps wanted Auuunold to run for president, such was the state of their sorry ass primary field of wannabes.


You mean RINO’s…I know of very few Conservatives who supported Ah-nuld, for anything…..and certainly none who heard his support for National Health Care “Reform” even prior to the Recall. As a member of the GOP I pulled for him to beat Gray Davis, but I knew and many others, I’d say a majority, of Conservatives knew Arnold was no Conservative. And to throw it back at you, how many Democrats/Liberals wanted the same thing with Jennifer Granholm, of Michigan. When Michigan was a model not a joke and a shambles….

To be fair to Schwarzenegger, he did try to take on the teachers and the prison guards, early on in his administration, and failed….unlike Scott Walker. To his shame, after having failed to do the right thing, Ah-nuld seemed to focus on being “liked” and reelected and to take the suitably “Progressive” political positions on Global Warming and Embryonic Stem Cell Research-to the taxpayers detriment, I might add.

Scott M said...

All men on the planet cheat w/whatever is within reach.

As much bullshit as saying all women really want it all the time, they just can't admit it and, thus, no actually means yes.

You really want to hang your hat on such nonsense? Men and women are faithful because they love their other halves. If they don't, they won't be. Sorry if that's a bitter pill to swallow, particularly if you've been on the receiving end of infidelity.

Sabinal said...

this "woman as victim" schtick with Schwarznegger is absolute bull. She could have quit or prosecuted. This is not Iran, and the job was not so special that she could not work elsewhere.
So far as we know, S's did not rape this woman. She was so willing to be with him that she had his child. How is that assault or a powerplay? More like simple advantage taking from both sides. This is far from a Lifetime movie (at least from the maid standpoint)

What gets my goat is that S.'s actions were seen as worse by some because he was a Republican. Never mind that he could not get any of his programs done or that Edwards did worse by his wife.

Sabinal said...

Ann said
"...He used his power to give jobs to appealing women and keep them in his house for his use. That's the offense I'm focusing on."

but if they accept it, the power is actually equalized, because then the other woman/man could expose the person and cause problems. That's why affairs are risky/stupid things. People want to have their cake and eat it, and a good chunk of the time that ain't happenin'
Since we heard of the divorce after the baby daddy issue, I doubt people care. In fact, I doubt people care at all except us nerds.

No one will throw out their DVDS of Twins, Total Recall or Terminator series because of this. Shoot, this might increase sales.

Sabinal said...

Strauss-Kahn, if truly guilty, is a criminal. *Just* a criminal. One does not need any of these hoity-toity explanations. He got caught, and France feels embarrassed. As we would if Hilary did something criminal (maybe I should have used a different person...)

Sabinal said...

(The Crypto Jew)

Once upon a time many wingers were regretting Schwarzenegger not being a natural born citizen as Reps wanted Auuunold to run for president, such was the state of their sorry ass primary field of wannabes.

and the lefties still love Obama despite the fact we are worse off than under W. It's all about the team

shiloh said...

ok, let me rephrase:

Many, many men cheat as a presidential study was done by historians in the late '70s noting only (2) presidents didn't "stray", Truman and Ford.

Shocking!

Although it is reassuring knowing most presidents were very good at multitasking. :-P

shiloh said...

Sabinal, your Obama deflection is duly noted. But the fact remains, most Reps are truly disappointed w/the current field of pathetic wannabes.

take care

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)




Sabinal, you are a little too dismissive of power differentials….ask Paula Jones or Monica Lewinski’i or AlGore’s masseuse about what happens to womyn who speak the wrong truth about the Right Men in Power… and please note DSK may now face charges en France for assault. The womon in question previously did not wish to press charges because of DSK’s position in the Socialist party, the blowback would have been extensive on her own party.

So yes, maids have reason to be cautious in their dealings with powerful men, unless they want to be called a nut/slut/stalker or see their families suffer political/economic consequences. Ah-Nuld, AlGore, Slick Willie and Strauss-Kahn all represented a potential threat to reputation of their “accusers.” Sure once the “ice is broken” often others come out of the wood work, but it takes the FIRST, rather brave “victim” to come forth….

Usually, the reason, given, is akin to Guide’s discussion of Stalin’s Gulags, “We knew of the camps’ existence, but we thought to reveal them was to betray the Cause of Humanity.” Slick Willie is in conflict with the evilllll Newt Gingrich and if he is wounded, politically, womyn, children, the poor, and People of Colour will DIE, or if AlGore is called on his behavior, all the Polar Bears will die, or Strauss-Kahn could be President of France, and if he is derailed, will then the Cause of Liberte, Egalite y Fraternite will be set back a decade! So not only will the womon’s reputation be smeared by the powerful; great evils will attend the Great man’s fall, providing further reasons to keep one’s mouth shut.

To be fair to Ah-nuld he did provide support for the child, and mayhap will CONTINUE to provide support for the child. Doesn’t make his betrayal right or mean that the affair was entirely consensual, or even equal.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

But the fact remains, most Reps are truly disappointed w/the current field of pathetic wannabes.


Until Dame Sarah enters the race and then much rejoicing shall ensue…

shiloh said...

Until Dame Sarah enters the race and then much rejoicing shall ensue…

Well, the pundits will be happy as mama grizzly does indeed sell "copy".

And Dems/libs will be happy if she somehow/someway miraculously gets the nomination, but alas, that's a bridge too far er

a bridge to nowhere! :-P

You bet'cha!

Scott M said...

And Dems/libs will be happy if she somehow/someway miraculously gets the nomination, but alas, that's a bridge too far er

Why is that? Honestly speaking, who would you least like to see get the GOP nomination? Saying something like "they're all pretty awful" doesn't count.

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
shiloh said...

If mama grizzly gets the nomination it will be Manna from Heaven to Obama.

Nate Silver at his old blog said (2+) years ago she was definitely running. I disagreed as she is a grifter/charlatan only interested in fame/$$$.

I still disagree, she ain't running.

Kathleen Parker noted over a year ago:

palin runs she makes a lot of $$$.
palin doesn't run she makes a lot of $$$.

And "we" all know she's lazy as she quit her strenuous job of governing 700k ...

Soooo, unless she's a masochist, she ain't running.

take care

apologies to grifters/charlatans

J said...

"""Or is she stupid? """

Maria married Ahhnuld. Connecten Zeee dots, Frau A-house.


Really Herr AS came up, IMHE--so he wasn't like going to lunch with like a CHPpie in jodhpurs, as some feared--he had some hott au pair byatch for eine kleine knachtmuzack. .

Scott M said...

Answer the question, shiloh. Who would you least like to see get the GOP nomination?

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)




I love the Anti-Palin People, “she’s only in it for the money” UNLIKE the multi-Millionaire Obama’s, who are only in it for the Sake of Humanity…I love how the Double Standard works….

Good job on the “quitter” meme Shiloh…please continue on with the idea she quit, that frivolous ethics charges designed to bankrupt her had NOTHING to do with it….OF COURSE, by quitting/resigning she became an even larger thorn in the Left’s Side (“Strike me down and I shall become even more powerful), but hey drive on…I can hardly wait until she’s POTUS, should make for an interesting time…the Left having helped build her up…you know first as Veep, then when Governor, and then claiming, “We WANT to run against her.”

Matt said...

Well it's not just European men. It is just two in one news cycle. A few American men, African men, Australian men et al. are just as likely to be caught with their pants down.

shiloh said...

I love the Anti-Palin People

Ditto!

Damn, common ground is within reach. ;)

mccullough said...

Joe (the crypto Jew),

Alaska is a welfare state. Please look up the federal per capita spending on TANF, WIC, SNAP, SCHIP, school lunch, and Medicaid.

Sarah, Queen of Norway, did nothing to get these folks off the dole.

Given that Pawlenty did a good job in Minnesota and Daniels in Indiana, why would a conservative who believes fiscal issues are the most important issues facing the country over the next decade select the Queen of Norway over these guys?

Is Palin's plan for the U.S. to drill for oil everywhere and then give everyone more social welfare benefits. What works in Norway, will not work in the lower 48 or Hawaii (or the territories).

What are the specific reasons you think Palin is better than the other actual or potential Republicans? Bonus points if you can point to something in Palin's record to show she actually did something about an issue she is now advocating (e.g. less government spending, less welfare, fewer government employees).

J said...

Yes the Democrats will be doing some DLC-style disco-dancin' when/if Palin decides to run. She hasn't got a chance in hell, even with a titjob or some ueber-wealthy NY financiers pulling for her.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

Given that Pawlenty did a good job in Minnesota and Daniels in Indiana, why would a conservative who believes fiscal issues are the most important issues facing the country over the next decade select the Queen of Norway over these guys?

Is Palin's plan for the U.S. to drill for oil everywhere and then give everyone more social welfare benefits. What works in Norway, will not work in the lower 48 or Hawaii (or the territories).


Well as Mitch Daniels may not have his wife’s permission to run, and is as boring as Pawlenty, plus Mitch’s love of the VAT and a “truce” on Social Issues, and the continual verbal gaffes, I’m sure Mitch will EASILY secure the Base’s support…Pawlenty is good, and solid, and DULL…IF Palin doesn’t run, then I’m sure he’d be a fine substitute.

As to your second paragraph…No that is NOT her “plan”…but hey you keep on bringing it up, like it IS her plan, because it seems to be the limit of your attacks. My evidence is her support for Paul Ryan’s plan for dealing with the budget, which is NOT Drill Here, Drill Now, babe, and More WIC for All….

Again “12 Billion Dollar Surplus”….

mccullough said...

Joe,

I'm glad Palin is finally in support of curtailing social welfare. Of course, she has no record of actually doing anything about it as governor.

As for the $12 billion surplus, that is confiscating money from private business to give to others. Are you in favor of this type of wealth redistribution? Isn't that exactly what Norway does?

It sounds like you're a social conservative. Did you know that the most socially conservative states are also the states that are the highest per capita recipients of federal welfare (TANF, WIC, SNAP, SCHIP, school lunch, and Medicaid).

Why aren't social conservatives, like Palin, successful at getting their fellow state citizens at supporting themselves?

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

As for the $12 billion surplus, that is confiscating money from private business to give to others. Are you in favor of this type of wealth redistribution? Isn't that exactly what Norway does?

It sounds like you're a social conservative. Did you know that the most socially conservative states are also the states that are the highest per capita recipients of federal welfare (TANF, WIC, SNAP, SCHIP, school lunch, and Medicaid).

Why aren't social conservatives, like Palin, successful at getting their fellow state citizens at supporting themselves?



I’m betting YOU are a Liberal or at best a l/Libertarian….so really YOU’RE opinion of a GOP candidate or prospective candidate is fairly suspect….So TAXES are now “confiscation” and “redistribution” well thank you Murray or Lew….who knew?

I am a “SoCon” and we worry a great deal about the fiscal solvency of the US…again, Alaska has/had a 12 BILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS, unlike the US and Plain has endorsed Ryan’s plan…now that may not suit you, but it works for me. I believe you will discover that the most fiscally conservative members of Congress are also the most SOCIALLY Conservative…there are almost NO “libertarians” in Congress, you know pro-abortion, drugs, prostitutes, open borders, but holding the line on spending. So IF you care about spending, and I’m not sure you do, THEN you’d be better in supporting folks like Palin than anyone else.

As to Alaskans supporting themselves, when 2/3rds of your land is FEDERAL, I believe you will find that supporting yourself is not that easy…I would gladly support your efforts to divest the US Government of 75% of the land it currently holds, to private hands…until then, the people of Alaska, Wyoming, and the like will be very beholden to Federal decisions regarding the Use or Non-Use of their land…..

mccullough said...

Joe,

I'm not for welfare. The strongest aspect of Ryan's plan is that he proposes to put the non cash welfare distribution (WIC, SCHIP, school lunch, SNAP) on par with the cash welfare reform of TANF in 1996.

Of course, this means that Alaskans will have to get jobs.

And there is a difference between taxing something and spending it on roads, schools, and other public benefits and taking money from a company and giving it to others. That is a direct hand out.

I guess that makes me somewhat libertarian.

Sarah Palin is in favor of welfare and against abortion. She has no record of fiscal conservatism.

J said...

Joey Kissinger flying the Ayn- Paul-Palin Ryand flag of phreedom, and phree enterprise, at Ayn-tard.com.

Too stupid to even bother responding to.

Scott M said...

shiloh? Crickets? Anyone else on the left want to take a stab at it? Who do you least want to see get the GOP nomination?

WestVirginiaRebel said...

I think in Arnold's case it might be guilt over his wealth, as he literally got off the boat with nothing, became a star, and later a member of a powerful political family.

shiloh said...

Scott M

Since you persist ...

A 3-way tie ~ mittens/Daniels/Pawlenty

ie a distinction w/out a difference re: having a pulse/personality/perception.

Again, the Rep field is beyond weak as at least McCain had the war hero persona, strong on defense meme.

These fools couldn't find an Army latrine er head er C-in-C will never be on their resume ...

btw, Christie/Walker et al will never be ready for primetime! So no white knight comin' off the bench to lead conservatives to the promised land!

Again, quite the Rep conundrum.

mccullough said...

Shiloh,

I think Obama would have a hard time against Pawlenty or Daniels.

While both are bit dull, they are likeable and competent. The issues are pretty clear for the next election and Daniels or Pawlenty can make a strong case for fiscal conservatism over expansion of the welfare state, especially when it is clear that the welfare state will be funded by higher taxes on the middle class and up.

Daniels and Pawlenty also both are serious people, so I don't see the C-in-C issue as being one in Obama's favor. Overall, Obama's lack of decisiveness has been a problem in both Afghanistan and Libya.

As far as foreign affairs, he's gotten nowhere with China, which his former ambassador will make clear. He's also not made any inroads with Brazil and India.

I doubt foreign affairs will be much of a concern next election anyway. It will be about the economy and the fiscal direction the country will take. Both Daniels and Pawlenty can make a strong case for their positions. And both have solid records to run on.

Obama does not want to face either of these guys in the general election.

shiloh said...

Daniel's was Bush's OMB Director.

Pawlenty was MN governor when the I-35W Mississippi River Bridge collapsed.

President Dukakis will tell 'ya there are many political drawbacks to being a governor running for president and Dukakis wasn't running against a wartime incumbent.

But as Jesse said quite eloquently:

Keep hope alive!

It's early, so as always, I'll take a wait and see attitude ...

J said...

Daniels? Ahhyeahh Charlie Daniels. He'll lay a can of whupass on that boy BO.

Daniels with Sarah Klondike, or maybe Larry the cable guy as VP--that' definitely carry Dixie.

Mutnodjmet said...

I think it might be a European culture hold-over: Droit du seigneur,the legal right allowing the lord of an estate to take the virginity of his serfs' maiden daughters.

American men are more apt to show these "lords" the open-end of a double-barrel shotgun instead.

ken in sc said...

I saw one account that said Arnold's woman was married and passed off the child as her husband's. If so, she doesn't look like a victim so much as a co-conspirator.

mccullough said...

Shiloh,

Daniels has done a very good job as Indiana governor. He was certainly ahead of the curve on the fiscal issues and Indiana is actually a solvent state.

And do you really want to compare the three budgets Daniels presided over versus Obama's budgets? Obama's 10-year budget plan, with the rosiest of expectations, projects trillion dollar deficits year after year. You think this is a winning issue for Obama?

Do you really think Obama will be able to blame Daniels (or W) for a trillion dollar wasted stimulus, or increased spending across the board. Does anyone but the most ignorant believe that Obama can even come close to fixing the deficit by raising taxes only on those making above $250,000?
Obama's will have to raise taxes across the board. He could reimpose the Clinton tax rates on everyone, and the deficit is still unsustainable.

Obama has a very bad record as President. Obviously, he took over at a challenging time, but his policies have made things worse (we can't afford the entitlements we have but he wants to create another one and expand Medicaid, forcing deficit-crushed states to go under). Given his dismal record, the only campaign he can run is a negative one. But his main attribute is that he's likeable and people want(ed) him to do well.

Let me be clear: If Daniels or Pawlenty is the nominee, Obama is going to lose. The independents will flee from him. They are looking for a plausible alternative, and Daniels and Pawlenty are plausible alternatives.

mythusmage said...

In Arnold's case you need to think tribal dynamics. Arnold is the head of a small tribe consisting of himself, his wife and children, and his servants and their children. Arnold holds the power. His tribe wishes to share in that power, and to establish personal and political ties with their chief. One way to establish those ties is through emotional bonding, and sex is one way to establish emotional bonds.

Was the woman in question a victim of the system, or a gamer using the system to her advantage? Our narrative says the former, but primate politics (which is what this is) says the latter. Arnold acted like the alpha male in a primate band, and we give him grief about it.

Straus-Kahn on the other hand..

shiloh said...

Do you really think

I think Daniels isn't running, so all this discussion is moot!

Matt said...

mccullough

Obama does not want to face either of these guys in the general election.

Do you like making up your own facts all the time? You are only riding on opinion at this point. Nobody can predict with certainly right now what will happen in November 2012.

mccullough said...

Matt,

You think the economy is going to recover in 18 months? No economist thinks that. Unemployment will be above 8% and the deficit will be high and projected to be high. Obama will have to go negative.

But independents are already backing away from Obama. He's making things worse, not better, economically.

Whoever has the bulk of independents will win the election. Daniels or Pawlenty will be attractive to independents. Either of them will get about 52% of the vote and win states like Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida, and Ohio. Obama cannot be re-elected by winning the Northeast, Illinois, Michigan, and California.

Obama's best hope is Palin or Bachmann. But Republicans are not that stupid. They may nominate some duds, but they've never nominated a flake.

Ralph L said...

Washington-Williams is eligible for the Daughters of the American Revolution and the United Daughters of the Confederacy
I'm sure she signed up for the second one, though I thought they were for legitimate descendants only (but maybe descent just has to be documented).

Thanks above for the pushback against the Tho. Jefferson slur. That pissed me off during impeachment. What louts to twist the facts around in service of that pig of a man.

Michael K said...

Having a look at Prince Harry suggests that men aren't the only ones. Since the advent of DNA testing, the estimate is that 25% of children tested are not the biologic child of the legal father. I suspect much of this has been going on a long time.

The phenomenon of men and women and children with some mixing of the batch has nothing to do with rape. That is another matter entirely. For all we know, not all of Maria's four kids are Arnold's.

Joe said...

The Crypto Jew




McCollough, so Pawlenty and Daniels have been fiscally Conservative? Did they leave a 12 BILLION SURPLUS?

Oh and you have heard of the “Social Contract” right? That being the legal framework under which society operates? So the Alaska Constitution makes the resources the property of the People of Alaska, so all that “redistribution” you object to, a legal requirement ...which Palin renegotiated for the benefit of the State and People of Alaska.

I see you note, that Alaska has welfare...gee I guess Pawlenty and Daniels have NO Welfare? I mean they have to put their people to work, too? I'd imagine that Pawlenty and Daniels have FAR MORE folks on welfare than Alaska, mayhap not proportionally but in gross numbers. Get back to me who's the bigger drain on the Federal coffer?

Any way, I'm glad to see you're pulling for the “Dull” Candidates, who will probably lose to both Palin and/or Obama.

Matt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joe said...

The Crypto Jew




Someone mentioned “Alpha Males” and “Tribes”...nice anthropological study, but the US is NOT a tribal society, so whilst what you said sounds nice, it's neither legally nor philosophically correct for the US.

Matt said...

mccullough

They may nominate some duds, but they've never nominated a flake.

Don't be so sure about that. Many Republicans don't like 'Rinos'.

I don't think Pawlenty or Daniels will appeal enough in the GOP primaries.

And the thing about winning General elections is you have to grab the voters with strong appeal. It is never enough to get voters to vote against someone; especially an incumbent like Obama who is no shrinking violet. He is [despite what you may personally think] a very good campaigner and his approve ratings are actually above average. Many of the negatives he has are among Democrats who only have a negative opinion because he isn't liberal enough for him. But you'll note his approval rating went up 6 points in a week. It is because of those folks that like him come around very quickly. Don't expect those folks to turn to the Republican party. Even if the economy is bad.

The important thing too is personal appeal. Daniels and Pawlenty may have brilliant ideas. So did Fred Thompson - apparently. He sunk like a stone. There are many more dynamics to an election than just running against a bad economy. Especially when it's evident the economy is to blame on more than one party.

Holmes said...

"You covet what you see." -Hannibal Lecter

Ralph L said...

Michael K, I wondered about Harry's red hair and button nose, too, but around the eyebrows he looks just like Charles.

Sabinal said...

Sabinal, you are a little too dismissive of power differentials….ask Paula Jones or Monica Lewinski’i or AlGore’s masseuse about what happens to womyn who speak the wrong truth about the Right Men in Power…

I see where you're coming from, but I'm referring to AS not S-Kahn. I am a gossip blog freak, and if anything I've learned on blogs like Perez Hilton, Dlisted, Superficial as well as the Enquirer, there is money to be made in snitching even if it's a lie. I cannot accept that a maid (which is a dime a dozen job) felt forced to have sex multiple times *and* have a kid by the dude and continue to be in his service. This is not slavery. If she were forced, she could have made some serious hay against AS before the election or during his governorship. But she chose not to.

And women risk denigration of character even in egalitarian relationships if they go south.

And Lewinsky was always determined to be powerful via seducing men like Clinton. The shame is that Libs were so desperate to make Clinton a god they threw away their beliefs of equality and gave Monica the scarlet letter ( I wasn't surprised by the republicans)

I've seen women be both victim/survivor and manipulator/collaborator. I cannot look at the maid and see her as a victim. She could have walked. She knew what she was doing.

Synova said...

"Yes the Democrats will be doing some DLC-style disco-dancin' when/if Palin decides to run."

They won't be able to help themselves any more than they can help themselves attacking her children. And the more they do it, the more proof that there is nothing of substance to the objections. When people show such glee in the way they hate, it shows.

It's all... I hope Sarah Palin runs so I have a legitimate excuse to be a butt crack! Whoo HOooo!

The Bear said...

Someday someone will realize that the ultimate aphrodisiac for the truly powerful is to be able to take whatever they want from whoever they want. it IS the base idea of Neo-Plantationism - the desire of the elites to return the world to a form of Feudalism that is defined by the twin tyrannies of Socialism and Environmentalism (as described by Paul Ehrlich and Thomas Malthus).

Beldar said...

@ Prof. Althouse: You write, "But I'd like to focus on the way both of these powerful, ambitious men — who could have found willing women out in the world — went for the women who were working in their place of abode — the house and the hotel room."

I'm not defending either man's conduct, but that comparison is not at all fair. There is a huge and obvious difference between the way Schwarzenegger "went for" the as-yet-unidentified staffer and the way DSK "went for" the hotel maid.

Beldar said...

To be more clear:

It's deeply unfair to compare consensual adultery to sexual assault.