April 22, 2011

Paul Krugman says "So, let’s try another shot to the head."

I realize he's talking about a misconception, and he has designated the misconception a "zombie," and according to zombie lore, zombies are destroyed by shooting them in the head. But still. That's quite a violent way to talk about the thoughts in the minds of the people you want to correct.

And it was just last January that Kruman, responding to a terrible shooting, wrote:
So will the Arizona massacre make our discourse less toxic? It’s really up to G.O.P. leaders. Will they accept the reality of what’s happening to America, and take a stand against eliminationist rhetoric? Or will they try to dismiss the massacre as the mere act of a deranged individual, and go on as before?

If Arizona promotes some real soul-searching, it could prove a turning point. If it doesn’t, Saturday’s atrocity will be just the beginning.

92 comments:

Hagar said...

It's kind of jumbled, but putting together what the Democrats are saying now and what actually happened in the past, I gather that their economic "plan" is to somehow organize another bubble so that some people will make a lot of money and then tax the hell out of these people, which will then eliminate the deficit and also pay for all their programs, present and future.

Why is it we call these things "bubbles" again?

chickelit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

One day Democrats will look back and ask themselves "why did we even bother listening to Krugman and Chu so much?"

mccullough said...

I thought you could only kill zombies by a stake through the heart.

David Smith said...

"Eliminationist"? Is that how you talk when you get educated beyond your intelligence?

edutcher said...

If you want to go where the money is, you go after the middle class.

Get ready for taxes rising on the > 100K people, including double income families.

Just as predicted in '08.

mccullough said...

I thought you could only kill zombies by a stake through the heart.

I thought it was salt in the mouth with the mouth then sewn shut.

Quaestor said...

chickelit wrote: One day Democrats will look back and ask themselves "why did we even bother listening to Krugman and Chu so much?"

Somehow I doubt such will ever come to pass. Ann has civility and bullshit paired as a single tag for good reason. Civility is only for conservatives, because only they are singularly guilty of its trespass. Progressives have no need to temper their speech or writings because they can never utter a word of hate or "eliminationist rhetoric," nor can they give offense because none is ever intended. Their motive and means are pure and pristine as new fallen snow, no matter what is done or what is said they are beyond reproach because only the greater good is their end. To paraphrase Mr. Clemens the Republican is the only political animal who blushes, or is able to.

chickelit said...

So the line about 47% of Americans not paying federal incomes is just a lie huh Mr. Krugman? They really are paying taxes, just not federal taxes. OK gotcha!

I liked this in the comment section to that linked piece:

There is something troubling about representation without taxation, i.e. half of the voting public being able to decide to pay money for wars, when they don't pay the bills.

Indeed.

hombre said...

Krugman and Sullivan, the princes of hypocritical, cognitively dissonant douchebaggery.

Why bother?

Quaestor said...

I wish I would spend an extra minute proofreading. "that blushes" is so much more apt. Damn.

wv: oboicker -- this really ought to be a word, if for no other reason than the sound of it on the lips.

Roadkill said...

Do not expect Krugman to be consistent or even coherent. Whatever he has said in the past will always be subject to the memory hole if he thinks it can advance the cause of his politics.

Krugman is an intellectually dishonest man; I will never understand how he was ever deemed rational enough to be awarded a nobel prize in economics.

Hagar said...

A cartoonist at Cagle has Obama saying that he will not permit the half of Americans who pay no taxes to bear the burden for the other half that do not pay their fair share!

Titus said...

I am really into the Willy Street Co-op's Salad Bar.

The food is nutritious, healthy, green and fabulous. Lots of grain, beans and couscous and rice ensembles.

Don't get me wrong it can't touch any of the much more fab Co-Op's in Vermont.

I think that salad bar is the only thing decent about Madison...except being with my family.

How are you?

I am super, thanks for asking.

Titus said...

Meady and Alty, what time are we meeting at Farmer's Market? I will bring my usual picnic basket with organics.

Fred4Pres said...

If you understand Krugman is a partisan asshole--it all makes sense.

m stone said...

Krugman and CTJ are pulling a fast one, claiming foul. The federal tax is progressive, just not as much as they'd like to see to see.

Changes to the federal tax code levying higher taxes on the upper earners will have no bearing on the lower income earners or even the higher taxed fourth percentile in the study. So much for more equitable redistribution.

Compare lower incomes with federal and state aid recipients for true income.

By the way, it's the vampires who die by the stake.

Titus said...

Also, you can't swing a cat without hitting a fucking sandhill crane. The things are huge, make this hideous noise, and pinch a loaf almost as large as a rare clumber. The state has become overrun with them.

I say the public should be able to start hunting them.

Fred4Pres said...

Titus: Happy Easter, Gudi Padwa, and Bihu.

Titus said...

Namaste Fred.

Another thing Madison has done is set up all these gardens so kids can raise vegetables. I think it's totally gay.

ricpic said...

Paul Krugman is lined up with all the good thugs.

Fred4Pres said...

And happy Earth Day too.

ricpic said...

Keep up that fiber-healthy eating, Titus, and you'll fart your way to paradise.

Fen said...

Fen's Law.

Again.

edutcher said...

chickelit said...

So the line about 47% of Americans not paying federal incomes is just a lie huh Mr. Krugman? They really are paying taxes, just not federal taxes. OK gotcha!

If they work, they pay FICA taxes, just not income tax.

The problem is, they also get a welfare payment called EIC.

Titus said...

Wisconsin has a bunch of "Land Trusts" as well. We can't develop on them.

Totally commie.

chickelit said...

@edutcher: Yes. And just to be clear, that line I quoted about "representation with taxation" holds for paying for butter too, and not just for guns.

DADvocate said...

Who's saying only rich people pay taxes? I hear tons of people saying rich people don't pay enough taxes. Krugman's must making things up, intentionally convoluting the income tax issue with other taxes that aren't pertinent to the debate.

Elliott A said...

Why do we care what Krugman says? All of us here are expert in our fields as he is in his. His grasps of politics, and especially what makes people tick both collectively and individually are on the third grade level. It is nice to see you commenting, Titus!

America's Politico said...

The GOP is missing a great opportunity. The 14-year old should be invited to write a monthly column for a magazine. She is the future leader. Why is the GOP so focused on Trump? You have a diamond, protect it.

Also, why is the GOP so clueless. As a Nepalese who works at a defense contractor, I had to show my passport, birth-certificate, the first day at work. Without it no clearance. Why is it so easy to become a POTUS. I mean is this easy. If I have a checkered past,I just run for office. I win then I am protected. What a system.

Ut said...

"If you want to go where the money is, you go after the middle class."

No, if you want to go where the money is then you steal the middle class' 401k savings.

They're already holding hearings in Washington, D.C., about stealing your 401k and replacing it with some shitty annuity sold by Buffet that pays 3%, but you can't touch it until you're 73 or have cancer.

Look, they're fucking thieves.

They'll go where the money is: Your savings account.

Ut said...

I wish Titus would fuck Krugman up the ass to shut him up.

Come on Titus. Get into the anal.

Michael K said...

What is amusing is that Krugman's NYT columns don't agree with his textbook. The textbook is the serious stuff. In the columns, he is just telling the upper west side lefties what they want to hear.

themightypuck said...

The Commissioner of Common Sense thinks you are trolling Professor.

Carol_Herman said...

And, the first thing that came to my mind was the shot that killed JFK. It took Chief Justice Warren's reputation to the cleaners. And, according to Arlen Specter, the inventor of the "single bullet theory," that bullet is still in orbit. Circling the globe.

Krugman's nuts.

This has been known for a long time.

Among other things, Krugman's never seen a Black Swan. Doesn't know what to do when the market dives. And, politics doesn't go his way, either.

All you can say is that the NY Times has managed to pay Krugman and Thomas Friedman real money. As their reputation for printing news of substance went down the toilet.

Perhaps I could have predicted this when I was a kid. I had an uncle who was so full of it, when he spoke. But he said "he knew the formula to get his comments to the editors of the NY Times printed.

Old commie. Never worked a day in his life. And, my mom's sister was his wife.

Heck, it was also long ago that my mom said taking advice from columnists was so stupid, you'd be better off just hanging the financial pages up on a wall. And, shooting darts at it. To pick the stocks you'd want to buy. (Or sell.)

You didn't know that's why some people went to gypsies for advice?

Krugman can't even supply advice for fortune cookies.

You know, I grew up in New York City. It wasn't a town known for its civility.

Fen said...

What is amusing is that Krugman's NYT columns don't agree with his textbook. The textbook is the serious stuff. In the columns, he is just telling the upper west side lefties what they want to hear.

Which makes him a whore.

I wonder what his price was.

William said...

The immaculate misconception. Republicans are not zombies who should be shot in the head. It is the ideas in their heads that are zombies that should be shot in the head. There's a certain amount of collateral damage when one shoots an idea in someone's head. I would recommend that he reload that metaphor.

blake said...

I thought you could only kill zombies by a stake through the heart.

Three silver bullets in the groin.

Old Dad said...

Krugman has become the worst kind of intellectual whore, pathetically unpacking his false heart with words (h/t Hamlet).

vbspurs said...

And it was just last January that Kruman, responding to a terrible shooting, wrote:
So will the Arizona massacre make our discourse less toxic?


Are we talking of the same Paul Krugman who denounced Sarah Palin for her "death panel" remark, then a year later, used it in a serious response to how we should attack the deficit problem?

Nobel Laureates, outside of the sciences, should never be taken seriously.

Cheers,
Victoria

AJ Lynch said...

Krugman, Dylan & Blogginghead...what are three people who have never been in my kitchen cause I rarely read a blog post about them?

bil_d said...

If you look closely at the bar graph Krugman put up it appears very misleading.. If I am not mistaken you can only have 5 groups of 20%, unless you really want to stretch my patience... So, why break the last 20% into a 10% group, a 5% group, a 4%, and a 1% ?? Here's my point...those would be additive. And if you stack them up they dwarf the other four. Which makes his argument a non-argument.

AJ Lynch said...

Krugman is just lazy and,to be more than fair to his lazy ass, the available data does not really allow smart analysis.

For instance, someone on this thread asked "does the income data include govt benefits"? Libruls will scoff at this but if the data does not include a section 8 housing subsidy of $1,500 per month and food stamps of $400 per month and paid daycare of $800 per month, a person who had a job with W-2 income of $12,000 actually made $12K plus $18K plus $5K plus $10K = $45,000 AND MOST WAS AFTER TAX. So Paul Krugman can kiss my ass until he can fix his data to account for stuff like this!

bil_d said...

Here's what Krugman's graph would , look like ... if he were to be consistent with 5 20% groups..

chickelit said...

AJ Lynch said...
Krugman, Dylan & Blogginghead...what are three people who have never been in my kitchen cause I rarely read a blog post about them?

Too funny AJ. I get it.

Alex said...

civility bullshit.

Dante said...

Krugman is a jerk and an idiot. But what he is saying about taxes has some validity.

I'm particularly concerned about these two income earners. Mom and Dad go off to work and the kids go off to daycare, if there are any kids.

To understand this, consider that when including the payroll tax, the total Federal tax of a symmetric earning married filing jointly couple with only the standard deduction and 216K of earnings pays a whopping 37.5% in income tax. And it's actually a bit higher than that as AMT starts to reduce the standard deduction.

Compare that to the 17% total tax rate payed by the 400 highest earners in the US at the Federal level.

Krugman's income charts are probably a bit lazy. I would bet they include earners no longer paying that 15.3% Social Security + Medicare penalty.

The Crack Emcee said...

I'm not going to read the comments, because I'm sure somebody beat me to it, but I'd like to give a shot to Krugman's head. To straighten him out, of course.

*Pop*

ic said...

"If Arizona promotes some real soul-searching..."

Only humans who possess a soul could do soul-searching.

Paul Krugman's over the top "eliminationist rhetoric" may prove the so-called economist is actually a zombie who has no soul.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Ah, Krugman. Why anyone listens to this toad is perplexing. Perfect application of Fen's law here. He really didn't believe what he said after the Arizona shooting ('its really up to the GOP') and he's come full circle on that now.

Yawn.

Dandapani said...

"Civility for Thee and not for Me" -- any Liberal Commenter

Henry said...

This is the sort of column that I use to show others that Mr. Krugman has lost it. He is attempting to argue that the U.S. tax system is not progressive. But, look at the chart in his article: the top 10% of income earners pay 50% of all taxes! The bottom 20% pay less than 10% of all taxes! And yet, Mr. Krugman claims the system is not progressive! NOW we're talking about a zombie.

He has attempted to support his position using the optical trick of having the bars on the histogram represent different fractions. He is fundamentally dishonest.

rdkraus said...

Henry sums up the essence of Krugman:

He is fundamentally dishonest.

Maybe the most important lesson I learned from the statistics class I took many, many years ago is this: ya got your liars, your big liars, your bigger liars and then ... ya got your statistics. A man who knows how to use statistics can lie like no other. Krugman is very, very good at this. You really can't believe anything he says or purports to show.

GulfofMexico said...

Krugman has a special gift for annoying the right-wing, primarily because he baits them with passive-aggressive commentary and they oblige by engaging him on the merits.

The Crack Emcee said...

I've told you before and I'll tell you again:

Paul Krugman is an idiot.

Tully said...

Which makes him a whore.

I've been pointing that out for years. bil_d nailed the hackery in the Krug-ho's chart already. As do others who note that "income" in that graph does not include the value of government benefits received, including the EITC. Add those benefits back into the mix and that graph would show how truly progressive the picture really is.

AprilApple said...

Civility bullshit. Paul Krugman is a paid leftist goon and an economic fraud. He works for the democrat party pushing the democrat line that we can spend ourselves out of debt and tax ourselves rich. Civility? Krugman is a liar.

AprilApple said...

Paul Krugman is a fraud, a hack, a hypocrite, a liar and a joke. He should be laughed off the stage.

AprilApple said...

Paul Krugman's idea of civility: Paul calls you a murderer, without proof, all while Jared Loughner reads his communist manifesto.

Bart DePalma said...

Leftist rules only apply to the little people.

AprilApple said...

That 14 year old Madison girl who dared to speak out to the crowd of brain dead leftist tools - Paul Krugman would like to silence her. (if you know what I mean)

I don't need proof to say such a thing.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Paul Krugman.

This time, you've gone too far...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Z3fOO5u-4

AprilApple said...

feh.
"We are living in a bizarre moment in history. Our establishment–the press, the academy, all unions, most politicians, many in business who have skin in the Ponzi game–assure us that borrowing trillions of dollars to finance wasteful spending, while sticking our children with the tab plus interest, is perfectly sensible. On the other hand, believing that we should live within our means is? Crazy!" --John Hinderaker

Paul Krugman is the de facto economic advisor to the democrat party. No jobs, trillions in debt, tax hikes, and life sucks? While Krugman is blaming you for your lack of civility (or your access to free speech) Krugman is single handedly ruining our nation.

Phil 3:14 said...

Funny because I was looking at that graph and related article before Krugman's column.

It was sent to me by a liberal friend.

The nub of the debate is "How progressive should the tax code be?"

Unfortunately it's just too easy for the large majority to say:

"They've got plenty; they should pay MORE"

AprilApple said...

Phil -
Democrats seem to get a lot of mileage out of class warfare. We stupidly hand the democrats more power to remove private property and investment and run it through an inefficient government sieve. Prosperity, private industry, and investment vanish and we all become poorer. No matter; The democrats magically find all sorts of money for re-election.

AprilApple said...

When Paul Krugman, the ridiculous dried-up elite hyper-ventilating Jane Fonda, and the Huffington crowd blamed Sarah Palin for Jared Loughner's murders - they blamed all non-leftwingers. They blamed all republicans, all independents, all moderate democrats and all libertarians. That's you, folks.
They blamed you.

BoboFromTexas said...

When referring to Krugman remember to always include the title "Former Enron adviser".

It brings into sharp focus the value of his commentary.

pumping-irony said...

"Why is it we call these things "bubbles" again?"

Named after their inventors, the Bubbleheads.

gk1 said...

Partisan hack and Enron adviser has another brainfart and we are supposed to care, why?

Substance McGravitas said...

It is no surprise that Ann Althouse will take offense at someone speaking about violence to a concept - OH WHO WILL WEEP FOR THE VIOLENCE TO A CONCEPT! - if the person expressing such inhumane treatment of innocent intangibles is someone Ann feels she must dislike.

trizzlor said...

@Henry: "But, look at the chart in his article: the top 10% of income earners pay 50% of all taxes! The bottom 20% pay less than 10% of all taxes! And yet, Mr. Krugman claims the system is not progressive!"

This is literally the dumbest thing on this thread (and that includes the jokes about shooting Krugman). The chart shows a flat tax +/- 2%. If you can't understand the relationship between income and taxes you need take a long hard think before you post.

Paul Zrimsek said...

MinuteMan points out the dual role played by the FICA tax in liberal rhetoric.

Brian said...

Althouse....another partisan hack protesting too much. I find it funny that you generated this amusing non issue so cons come together and complain about "civility". Well, in the immortal words of Republican "Dick" Cheney on the hallowed floor of the Senate....F{_}ck You. Now why don't you prove yourself to be the partisan hacks you are and call me a Liberal.

Alex said...

Brian - zzzzzzzzzzzzz

bring more game dude.

Alex said...

shiloh has already played out the "this is a con echo chamber" bit.

Brian said...

"Brian - zzzzzzzzzzzzz"
You're saying you're either narcoleptic or boring....I'm having a hard time distinguishing...

"bring more game dude"
Which one are you? Bill or Ted? Is your Adventure and "Excellent" one? You need to put more thought into your comments.

Alex said...

Brian - your type is a dime a dozen. Heck, even shiloh isn't original with this meme. You should try much harder, but originality is difficult for the drug-addled types.

Brian said...

"shiloh has already played out the "this is a con echo chamber" bit."

Now there are three things played out on this post Alex....

#1 Liberals are violent
#2 Con Echo Chamber
#3 and finally you Alex.

Alex said...

Brian - put the bong down and get sober. You might learn a few things.

Brian said...

Put the Qwerty down and go read a book....You're too cliche', played out, and dull....two of those things are forgivable.

Alex said...

I've got Brian on a yoyo. Epic.

Brian said...

"I've got Brian on a yoyo. Epic."

It's funny that you're the more pathetic we two. I mean. Here we are arguing over a nothing issue on a blog post the day before Easter Sunday....I've got better things to do than troll you...

johnny phenothiazine said...

You do understand the meaning of "zombie idea," don't you? The idea itself is the "zombie," not the persons expressing it.

An ordinary idea up and goes away when it it demonstrated that that idea doesn't correspond with reality, e.g. the phlogiston theory of thermodynamics. But a "zombie idea" refuses to die, even after it had been repeatedly disproven, e.g.:

2001: "Oh dear, we're in a slump; the best remedy is a huge tax cut for millionaires, which will (per Laffer) lead to a surge in employment."

2008: "We enacted the huge tax cut for millionaires you guys wanted in 2001, and now after eight years of essentially zero employment growth we're in an even worse slump than before, with unemployment figures rocketing upward."

2010: "Oh dear, we're in a slump; the best remedy is a huge tax cut for millionaires, which will (per Laffer) lead to a surge in employment."

cp said...

Uh, that's former Enron Advisor Paul Krugman, to you.

KCD said...

Oh, for Christ's sake, certainly go after the inflamatory words, and completely ignore the point. Once again Krugman says something rational. Why don't you listen, instead of looking for an opening to attack?

KCD said...
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KCD said...
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Alex said...

It's invasion of the new sockpuppets!

Paul Zrimsek said...

Speaking of zombie ideas, how's that stimulus working out for ya?

VW: consti. It just couldn't seem to force the rest of the word out!

Alex said...

Speaking of real zombie ideas, how is that Communism working for ya?

Niki said...

It's pretty clear that Krugman has been around the bend for a good while now, and his "eliminationist" [??] ravings are good cause for the NYT to sever their contract with him allowing him to stain and infect their Op-Ed page.

The guy is giving marxist claptrap a bad name.

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Andy said...

Once once again Krugman says a thing rational. Why don't you listen, rather than searching for an opening to attack
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