April 6, 2011

"It may take more than a month before any recount would even start" in the Wisconsin Supreme Court election.

"The Government Accountability Board has until May 15 to complete its canvas of the vote. No date has been set for the board to canvas the vote, which is dependent upon when the counties submit their results to GAB."

Settle in, people. It'll be just like the never-ending election night of 2000. Except that it's not a presidential election. It's just a state election. For a judge. How perfectly weird to get so intensely caught up in this matter. It got way too symbolic. Let's try to untangle the unresolved election from all the other things it had come to signify for us.

First, let's dispose of the "referendum on Walker" notion. Yesterday's voting did not produce anything that can be translated into a renouncement of last November's election. We can see that the people of Wisconsin are pretty evenly divided between conservatives and liberals, so we can't say that Walker and the GOP legislature have somehow lost their legitimacy. We've taken the temperature of Wisconsin and there is no fever. Normal politics should continue with the results of the last election intact.

The potential for the Wisconsin Supreme Court to invalidate the work of the political branches is relatively slight. Even assuming a Kloppenburg victory is sealed sometime next month or whenever the hell the election is finally over, there's a limit to what a court can do, especially without the boost of a landslide election that can be portrayed as the will of the people to stop Scott Walker and his minions.

The court might decide that the bill that stripped collective bargaining rights violated the open meetings law, but the GOP legislature can pass a new bill, without that procedural flaw, so what difference will it make? Indeed, such a decision, especially with Kloppenburg's participation, will open the court to the criticism that it is has over-leaped the bounds of judicial propriety, and that will undermine the court's legitimacy, making it harder to crank out the next self-aggrandizing decision and tipping the next judicial election toward the conservative candidate.

So... settle in... and settle down.

88 comments:

Robert said...

test.

Issob Morocco said...

Should I postpone my visit to Green Bay to see the Lombardi Trophy until the results are in?

shoutingthomas said...

I suggest refusing to accept the outcome of the election.

Stage endless protests outside and inside the Court, if you can.

Recall election petitions should be circulated immediately.

Start tapping on judge's windows at 6 a.m.

former law student said...

Prosser is a good judge and apparently a good man -- you would not expect the good people of Wisconsin to just toss him out without good reason.

LilyBart said...

'cause its going to take a month to create... er, I mean find all those extra votes for Klomppy to ensure her victory.

shoutingthomas said...

Prosser is a good judge and apparently a good man -- you would not expect the good people of Wisconsin to just toss him out without good reason.

Election decided in Madison.

Madison leftists have voted themselves a larger share of the taxpayer's money.

How long do you think this can keep going on, fls?

themightypuck said...

We've taken the temperature of Wisconsin and there is no fever. Normal politics should continue with the results of the last election intact.

This would be the case even if K won by 200K votes.

Issob Morocco said...

fls, he isn't thrown out yet. Stop projecting.

edutcher said...

This looks like a job for New Meadia Meade.

former law student said...

Prosser is a good judge and apparently a good man -- you would not expect the good people of Wisconsin to just toss him out without good reason.

It isn't the good people, it's the union slugs and the crooked politicians.

PS These people probably think they're actually fooling somebody.

PaulV said...

Does this mean recall of senators is unlikely. Is this result better for Ds than election in 2008? Doubltful that Madison senator faces a recall do big Madison turnout does not matter.

Eli Blake said...

If it goes to the courts (because recent history, be it Gore-Bush, Gregoire-Rossi, Franken-Coleman, Dayton-Emmer, etc.) has invariably ended up going to a state Supreme Court, will Prosser recuse himself? I guess he'd have to, but is there any provision that would force him to if he decided to dig in his heels and refuse to recuse?

Lincolntf said...

Now we're expected to settle down? Fuck that noise. These criminals have been shitting all over the Constitutional process for months, and "settling down" isn't going to help matters. I say people should get pissed off and stay pissed off until the scumbag thugs are no longer running the show in Wisconsin.
But that's just me.


wv: Larack

Obama's evil twin?

shoutingthomas said...

I say people should get pissed off and stay pissed off until the scumbag thugs are no longer running the show in Wisconsin.
But that's just me.


The residents of Madison keep voting themselves a larger share of the taxpayer's money.

It's a war with the taxpayers who live outside Madison and the university.

How long with those taxpayers continue to allow the tax eaters in Madison to rip them off? How will the taxpayers put an end to this rip off?

Phil 3:14 said...

Shorter paraphrase of the Professor's post (and as my kids used to say)

Take a chill pill

madawaskan said...

The Accountability Board technically has until May 15 to certify the results, but Kennedy said a recount could begin as soon as Tuesday.

Once official statewide results are in, the losing candidate has three business days to decide whether or not to request a recount.

If a recount is requested, the Accountability Board would issue an order that it start simultaneously in counties around the state. Workers would essentially sort through all the voting materials, double-check that they have the proper number of voters in each area, and recount ballots.

Observers could challenge ballots, which would then be set aside for further review.

In Wisconsin, about 90% of ballots are counted by running a paper document filled out by a voter through an optical scanner, Kennedy said.



jsonline.com

Smilin' Jack said...

So... settle in... and settle down.

Oh, don't be such a wet blanket. It's time for Recount Mania!! Do Wisconsin ballots have chads? I sure hope so!

Metanis said...

Wisconsin. Getting the government we deserve.

Lukedog said...

Hmmm.

Here you say..."First, let's dispose of the 'referendum on Walker' notion"

than you say "...so we can't say that Walker and the GOP legislature have somehow lost their legitimacy." and..."Normal politics should continue with the results of the last election intact."

So, it's not a referendum, but the fact that Prosser got 50% of the vote means that people support Scott Walker??

Sounds like it has become "way too symbolic" for the folks over at Meadehouse.

I suspect some folks voted for a judge who they thought would do the best job.

TosaGuy said...

The election showed that for every capitol bongo drummer there is a person in the rest of WI who supports the governor's policies. The next election will be decided by how either side can convince the 66 percent who didn't vote this time to vote for them next time.

Also, any Dem without access to the maxed-out Dane County voting block shouldn't read too much into this particular election.

Voltimand said...

The union goon interpretation of this vote, given the fact that the aggregate equals over a million votes cast (in a State SC election??), has something to be said for it.

What's been missing in all the discussion of union types heretofore is their contention that anyone who doesn't vote their way is morally evil. That's the paradigm they call on to explain something happening that they don't like. "This hurts me, therefore the person doing the hurting--Walker, whatever--are motivated by evil intentions."

This is childish, people. Sooner or later, someone with a bigger megaphone than mine is going to start deconstructing unions for the illiterate and emotionally infantile people that they are.

You want democracy? This is what democracy gives you--and every anti-democratic tyrant comes into power saying the same thing.

garage mahal said...

First, let's dispose of the "referendum on Walker" notion. Yesterday's voting did not produce anything that can be translated into a renouncement of last November's election.

Really? Prosser beat Kloppenburg 55-25 just two months ago in the primaries. Now he is losing to a virtual unknown challenger. Paul Ryan' district went 60-40 for Kloppenburg. Chris Abele smoked Jeff Stone by 20 points for Walker's old job.

Something changed.

madawaskan said...

The cost of a recount for government is steep, likely well over $1 million, with those costs largely borne by counties that have to recount the ballots, said Kevin Kennedy, head of the Government Accountability Board.

Candidates can't yet formally request a recount from the Accountability Board because county officials haven't finished putting together their official vote totals, Kennedy said.

The earliest a recount could begin would be next week, he said.


jsonline.com

**********

So as early as next Tuesday according to Kennedy who is head of the Government Accountability Board.

Meade said...

Lincolntf said...
"wv: Larack

Obama's evil twin?"

Larry and Barry.

Ren said...

"I suspect some folks voted for a judge who they thought would do the best job."

Sounds like my roommates, both of who voted for Prosser but are ardent Democrats. I didn't vote for either candidate. I wouldn't call this a referendum on anything.

EDH said...

We've taken the temperature of Wisconsin and there is no fever.

Speak for yourself.

Lincolntf said...

And my other brother Larry.

ricpic said...

...Scott Walker and his minions.

I don't see Walker as a minion kinda guy. Trumpka has minions. Obama has minions. Walker has allies. Ya know, uncoerced unbribed peers.

Chuck66 said...

We talk about the never-ending campaigning (November elections done? Think again). Now we will have the never-ending fund raising.

Meade said...

One precinct to go - in Jefferson Cty.
K leads P by 224 votes. Predicted votes for P in Jefferson Cty: 89.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

former law student said...

Prosser is a good judge and apparently a good man -- you would not expect the good people of Wisconsin to just toss him out without good reason.

It's not the good people who are trying to toss him out.

*ducks*

Pogo said...

Of course there is fraud.

It's exactly how Franken won.
We're not stupid. Every close election swings for the Democrat every goddamned time.

Coincidence?
Bullshit.

**Wisconsin has cops and firemen that have decided their job is to serve and protect only those citizens that vote their way.

**There were death threats against the GOP, and even against Althouse, the Obama voter.

**A lefty judge over-ruled a legal vote.

**Democrats left the state and tried to hold hostage the legislature
.

It's a banana republic.
The Kloppenburg "win" confirms it.

I have no faith in your state government or mine, or in the US government.

Not anymore.
I don't listen to the President speak, because it's bullshit.

I don't read the NYTimes, because it's bullshit.

I don't read MN or WI government, University, union, teacher, or professional society, articles, letters, ads, recommendations, rules, etc., because all of it is (or may be) bullshit (and telling the difference ain't worth the time).

It's foolish to think otherwise.

madawaskan said...

Meade

There are still three precincts in Milwaukee-West Allis to be exact that went for Prosser in the first round by 63%.

*******

Here is a link to the JSonline,com article I am referncing in my previous pots on this thread.

jsonline.com

The "article" Althouse is linking to is actually really crappy reporting.

And it's factually incorrect, or it's leading Althouse to make faulty conclusions.

madawaskan said...

edit:

There are still three precincts in Milwaukee County-in West Allis-that have *not reported" yet.

***

Chuck66 said...

One of the frauds Franken supposidly used to win was have "vouchers".....is that the term? The Democrats had people stationed outside polling places in Minneapolis to walk in with people they didn't know and say "yeah, this is my neighbor. He/she lives right next to me, has for a year". Then you can vote with no registration, no ID. Just the word of some guy you just met outside the polling location.

section9 said...

...and suddenly, out of Nowhere....

AL FRANKEN PULLED UP!

madawaskan said...

OK cripes new thread-West Allis is in-and I just checked the AP before commenting.

Took too long to comment.

I still think the article Althouse is linking to in this post is crap.

RichardS said...

Could the recount delay Posser's exit, meaning that he's on the Court when the Court rules on the budget/ union privileges law?

Almost Ali said...

Oh boy, a recount (i.e., they're taking us to the cleaners, for good measure).

But to those doubting Thomases, the people who believe a political hack like Kloppenburg could actually win an election without the 265,000 Illinois votes...

So, how will recounting 265,000 Illinois votes come out any differently?

It won't.

Ann Althouse said...

"I still think the article Althouse is linking to in this post is crap."

You think the stuff about recount timing is crap? Why?

chickelit said...

garage mahal said:

Really? Prosser beat Kloppenburg 55-25 just two months ago in the primaries. Now he is losing to a virtual unknown challenger.

Something really stinks in your disingenuity this time. The primary was a four way race. It's perfectly reasonable to see drastic "shifts" in a race reduced to a two way.

Your second sentence makes no sense in view of your first one.

Sharpen-up garage mahal!!

MadisonMan said...

Settle in, people.

Plus, the long winter is over, and Spring is here.

My big question is: When the Dane Co Farmers' Market is open, will the Capitol be open as well?

I do think this election drags down Walker's national Reputation. Compare what he has done in Wisconsin to, say, what Kasich has done much more quietly and successfully in Ohio. I don't know who convinced Walker to put the Union Strings in the budget "Repair" Bill, but it was, in retrospect, a bad bad idea. And I heard on my long drive yesterday that Fitzgerald (Not sure which brother) is thinking of putting the anti-union language back in next year's budget. Why?

Meade said...

Approximate number of Wisconsin voters in Nov. 2010 election who did not vote yesterday: 681,832.

madawaskan said...

Althouse

Compare and contrast the "facts" reported in the WFTV article to the article written by jsonline.com.

WFTV completely skips over the fact that the recount can start as early as next week.

It's crap.

Jsonline.com bothered to interview Kennedy the head of the Government Accountability Board.
What references or sources does the WFTV refer to?

Nadda-el crapo.

Phil 3:14 said...

Garage;
Something changed.

Many things have changed and these changes can reinforce any left or right conviction/bias you want (i.e. voter rejection of the Walker agenda vs huge influx of union money and volunteers to push the Klop candidacy)

Its one "dot".

madawaskan said...

Here's the jsonline.com article

jsonline.com

Pretend WFTV and JSonline's articles are two student papers-which one deserves the better grade?

madawaskan said...

If you just refer to WFTV can you clearly glean the fact that the recount can start by next Tuesday?

Hell to the no.

Meade said...

"And I heard on my long drive yesterday that Fitzgerald (Not sure which brother) is thinking of putting the anti-union language back in next year's budget. Why?"

Anti- public sector union language. Not anti-union.

Why? To end the corrupt collusion between (mostly Dem) politicians and the public employee unions.

Stop withholding union dues from paychecks and transferring them to the unions who use them to elect more Dem politicians. Give public employees choice on union membership.

Once that collusion ends, Dem political hegemony will end and Wisconsin government can become more representative of Wisconsinites. Plus, public servants will then begin to work for the people they are suppose to serve - not the corrupt politicians and union bosses.

Simon said...

Meade, I think that proves the point I made this morning: "although we may not know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this election for several days, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the ability of the left to claim that they speak for the people or a broad majority. Even if K ultimately wins, the close election demonstrates that the high water mark of union support is approximately half of those who bother to vote in off-year elections." The election kills the unions' ability to claim majority support. The left tried to make this a referendum on Walker's reforms, and the evidence says that most Wisconsinites either don't care or actively oppose the left's position.

Meade said...

Good point, Simon. And well put.

MadisonMan said...

Yes, Meade -- but why put the language back in a budget bill? Do they just want the 14 Senators to leave again?

Vote on the Anti-Union bill separately (okay, Anti-Public-Union), trying more carefully to stay within the law this time around. Then vote on the budget. Why combine the two? It's not like they are doing other things.

MadisonMan said...

make that: It's not like they are doing other things and don't have time to vote on two separate bills.

T J Sawyer said...

Ann says:
"We can see that the people of Wisconsin are pretty evenly divided between conservatives and liberals..."

But they form some interesting clusters. Three counties show over 70-30 majorities for Prosser. Three show 70-30 majorities for Kloppenburg.

While most analyses will probably focus on Dane county versus the rest of the state, take a look at Bayfield/Douglas/Ashland counties. This little cluster in Northwest Wisconsin gave about a 15,000 vote majority to Kloppenburg. A fascinating little area where I used to see so many "No Line" signs. Where was Prosser on allowing the power line to be built?

Almost Ali said...

Does anyone happen to know who will oversee the recount? Well, it ain't Mary Poppins.

Hint #1: Her favorite intern was Kloppenburg.

Hint #2: She hates Prosser, with a passion.

Hint #3: She hangs out at the Wisconsin Supreme Court.

pbAndj said...

Good to see that Meadehouse isn't drawing political implications from this vote in order to support their political preferences. Which was the thing that they know is reprehensible.....

chickelit said...

While most analyses will probably focus on Dane county versus the rest of the state, take a look at Bayfield/Douglas/Ashland counties.

Weren't those Northern counties destinations for Meadehouse roadtrips? And what about Madison itself. Anybody looking into those suspicious correlations? :)

Lincolntf said...

"We can see that the people of Wisconsin are pretty evenly divided between conservatives and liberals..."


The rest of the country sees Wisconsin as pretty evenly divided between people who work for a living and people who extort for a living.

Alex said...

A Democrat win = banana republic. That's the rightie logic these days? MAN - you guys are sore losers.

Sofa King said...

Yes, Meade -- but why put the language back in a budget bill? Do they just want the 14 Senators to leave again?


Obviously, they want to try to make it as difficult as possible for the 14 to flee, because if they don't pass it with a super-quorum it will simply end up right back in court again.

Meade said...

"Do they just want the 14 Senators to leave again?"

By next year, the recalls will have backfired on the Dems and the 14 senators will be more like 11.

Alex said...

By next year, the recalls will have backfired on the Dems and the 14 senators will be more like 11.

The sound of desperation.

garage mahal said...

It's perfectly reasonable to see drastic "shifts" in a race reduced to a two way.

Indeedy!

It's looking like Lake Mills for the win, by 233 votes. The Fitzgeralds district. Kloppenburged!

Simon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Simon said...

Meade, I can't take credit for the phrasing—it alludes to and borrows from Justice Stevens' Bush v. Gore dissent.

pbAndj said...

"By next year, the recalls will have backfired on the Dems and the 14 senators will be more like 11.

The sound of desperation."

I thought Meadehouse was opposed to these recalls because....er, why was that? Something about it being too much bother to go out and vote again? You know: democracy is such a burden.

Bill said...

"The court might decide that the bill that stripped collective bargaining rights violated the open meetings law, but the GOP legislature can pass a new bill, without that procedural flaw, so what difference will it make?"

Why don't they just do that now, and moot the lawsuit?

Original Mike said...

"The cost of a recount for government is steep, likely well over $1 million"

Why does everything government does cost so damn much?

garage mahal said...

Why don't they just do that now, and moot the lawsuit?

Or why the GOP refused to testify in front of Sumi on their behalf. The lawsuit could have been settled last week.

This sounds like a job for an enterprising new meadia reporter. Wonder if they could run down one of the Fitzgeralds and ask them about it?

Pogo said...

"Why does everything government does cost so damn much?"

Not bug; feature.
Stimulus!

David said...

NonononoinoNO!

Collective bargaining is a constitutional right, just like abortion, burning the flag and guns.

Kloppenboker is a completely modern jurist. If you don't like the law, it's unconstitutional.

Sofa King said...


Why don't they just do that now, and moot the lawsuit?

It will still end up back in court. Why would they go through all of the kicking, screaming, and death threats just to end up right back where they are?

Original Mike said...

"Why don't they just do that now, and moot the lawsuit?"

I do think the Repubs misplayed their hand. By not simply revoting the budget, they turned the Supreme Court election into a cause. The loss of the Court won't matter on the budget issue, but it's likely to have consequences down the road.

Original Mike said...

"It will still end up back in court."

Why?

David said...

I expect all recalls to fail. That's the one good thing about this election, making recalls look very unlikely.

Sofa King said...

For not having a super-quorum. The Democrats will boycott the vote again, then challenge it constitutionally for being a fiscal bill because it has fiscal effects.

The suit has in fact already been filed.

roesch-voltaire said...

The assumption made is this statement is just astounding, ignoring the actual work and services that go on from vehicle registration to computer systems by our public servants:
Plus, public servants will then begin to work for the people they are suppose to serve - not the corrupt politicians and union bosses.
Further is you look at the map of Wisconsin and how each district voted you will discover that not just Dane country voted for Kloppenburg, but also counties in the northwestern part of the state so the assumption stated by many on this blog does not hold up to the actual voting patterns. It would seem that those districts, for the most part, with higher incomes and jobs are expressing a need for change.

chickelit said...

garage mahal said:

Indeedy!

You misunderstand me.

Remember how hard you used to get for HRC? You sorta transfered that hardness to BHO.

See the difference? or are you going to come back with an outright frank admission of affection for potus?

garage mahal said...

BHO never gave me the chubby. Now or then.

Lincolntf said...

Come on Garage, we all know you got wood when Obama mocked retarded children on the Tonight Show. That was the highlight of his Presidency so far.

SukieTawdry said...

Why don't they just do that now, and moot the lawsuit?

My guess is that in the face of all the hullabaloo, pressure and death threats, some Republicans have turned tail.

doris said...

1 1/2 months ago in the Spring Primaries, Justice Prosser won with 54.99% of the vote, coming in second was little known Joanne Kloppenburg with 24.99% of the vote. A total of 420,110 people voted on that day. Yesterday over 1.5 million voted for Supreme Court Justice and it looks like Kloppenburg won by 206 votes

Yes, this was a referendum on Walker for a lot of people.

doris said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

Yes, this was a referendum on Walker for a lot of people.

And I feel sorry for you people, including some friends and relatives of mine. You fail to see where unbridled public service unions will lead you as here in California. But so be it. I can laugh at and mock you from afar, because I still care about you.

I still love the Wisconsinner but hate the Wisconsin.

chickelit said...

btw doris, you make the same error that garage did. If there were another election tomorrow with all four candidates running, Prosser would get the same votes and Kloppenburg would split hers with the other two (again).

chickelit said...

P.S. Unless you're all like Althouse, who doesn't actually vote for people in important elections but rather against them. :)

Mel said...

Thanks Ann, I needed to hear that from someone of intelligence.

Nite Herder said...

If Kloppenburg eventually wins and tries to sit for the case, what happens if the conservative justices leave the state rather than hear the case?

Anne said...

When justice is not applied equally it ceases to be justice. When the call to recall Walker goes out amongst the supporters of the 14 fleebaggers. When a judge lectures the conservatives on breaking rules while breaking rules herself. When we allow the unions to buy a Supreme Court seat, while complaining that corporations are trying to buy a Supreme Court seat. Justice is no longer being applied equally. We are no longer a state that believes in the rule of law, and justice is no more.

Michael said...

a win for education