... when Meade asks her why he should "be ashamed" of himself. That's at the end of this uncut 7 1/2-minute video, shot outside the Capitol this afternoon.
In the beginning, a man demands that a woman explain her sign, which reads "Public workers don't need collective bargaining." She's double-teamed by the man's wife, who finds it "odd" and "socially irresponsible" that a person would have a sign yet choose not to lay out her argument for discussion and dialogue. When the man says that she has a choice but other people don't, Meade begins questioning him. After a short interchange, a bunch of anti-Walkerites converge on Meade. One man grabs his camera. Another blows a whistle close to his face.
It's pretty gooba gabba.
AND: Wisconsin senator mobbed.
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177 comments:
At least Meade didn't get Stoned or Lynched.
Ah, yes...the liberals who claim to love freedom of speech are the first to try and shut it down...
And these people are teaching our children...God help them.
Bridget is socially irresponsible with the number of donuts she eats.
Steven,
Apparently she Believes as Michelle Obama does. Nutritional food is just for the little people!
There is also a video of union thugs blocking a Republican legislator from entering the capitol. State Senator Grothman. I think it's about time to limit access to the thugs.
I also don't understand the dude's harangue about "why should you get a choice when other people don't?"
1. We both have a choice and your choice lost.
2. I don't have a union representing me, nor do I have the choice of a union representing me.
3. Your union foolishly raised wages and benefits to a point where it priced itself right out of a monopoly market -- really fucking hard to do, but as we have seen, possible if you are absolutely committed.
4. By definition, unions can only exist standing athwart something. Public unions stand athwart taxpayers. Taxpayers are breaking the union.
5. Maybe with the lower pay, Bridget can eat less.
Ugh.
I don't know if it's a group thing or something else that makes people forget that uncivil behavior hurts their cause.
Okay, one last thing: what did the woman say to Meade when she asked him, "Why?"
And if the whole nation is watching, why don't people want and enjoy the camera? A treatise should be written...
Kill freedom of speech
Kill freedom of speech
Kill freedom of speech
Says the guy w/wayyy too much free time!
Welcome to democracy in action ie the real world, not like this blog where everything AA posts is anti-unions, anti-collective bargaining and pro Walker. And Meade, if you're not willing to suffer for your art ;) you may have to give up your hobby lol 'cause your god awful at playin' the victim, eh.
btw, there have been (139) reporters, editors, producers, photo-journalists, technicians KIA in Iraq from 2003 to 2009 so dude, you got it easy w/your spur of the moment hobby ...
happy trails ...
Welcome to democracy in action ie the real world
Yes. Welcome, indeed. How many ideas, do you suppose, until there is a law in Illinois that prohibits collective bargaining for public workers? I love democracy in action.
The blue fist communicates everything ...
What this guy wants is to punch some on in the face.
Per your addition, Althouse: violence toward elected representatives is just democracy in action, as per our friend shiloh.
Further, for shiloh: how is this a hobby for Meade but making up eerily bad signs about how much you love unions and going on a walkabout at the state capitol -- how is that some serious thing?
Anyway, I love the smell of broken unions in the morning. And Mitch Daniels for president!
How many ideas, do you suppose, until there is a law in Illinois that prohibits collective bargaining for public workers? I love democracy in action.
Illinois has a Dem governor, so as Meade would say, don't hold your breath ...
take care
And get the medical bill for all of the government workers who've lost their hearing because of the nut job with the relentless whistle.
And I get the bill for the wards of the state who've now lost their hearing because of the tool with the relentless whistle.
The blue fist communicates everything
Really? I thought that was an invitation to fist. Like the bandana code (see red) except a lot more overt.
Shiloh -- Are you really going to come here and play semantic games? Really?
Good luck, dude. Your side is losing. Your side never had a chance. All the chanting in the world and all the coming over to Althouse and hurling insults won't change that.
Good luck with your hobbies.
After a short interchange, a bunch of anti-Walkerites converge on Meade. One man grabs his camera. Another blows a whistle close to his face.
Indeed and don't spare the horses!
I see no one playing victim, save the vast majority of the gathered mob.
The thinking they appear to embrace has served to eliminate merit based promotion and raises in almost all corporations, union or not. To actually receive recognition for outstanding performance, one has to hook up with a small company or form his own business. Some think that is a good thing. The results do not appear to be all that positive.
While the teachers are slacking off, Meade could fill a vital role right now: substitute teacher. No permanent credential, or even education coursework, is required.
From dpi.state.wi.us
Three-Year Short-Term Substitute Permit Requirements
The Three-Year Short-Term Substitute Permit may be granted to a person who holds a bachelor's degree from a regionally accredited four-year bachelor degree granting institution, but has not complete a state-approved educator preparation program. The three-year short-term substitute permit allows the holder to accept short-term substitute assignments in any subject at any grade level (no more than 20 days total in a specific assignment).
The three-year short-term substitute permit may be issued when a school district has a shortage of licensed substitute educators. It must be requested by the employing school district on the applicant's behalf and the district must have a plan for provide training to the substitute permit holder. The PI-1602-SP form includes a 'School District Request' section to be completed by the superintendent or designated official of the school district for this purpose.
To request issuance or renewal of the three-year short-term substitute permit, submit the following materials.
1. A completed PI-1602-SP form, including School District Request on Page 2.
2. An original transcript verifying that the applicant has earned a bachelor's degree from a regionally accredited four-year bachelor degree granting institution (not required for renewals).
3. The Conduct and Competency Review (included in the PI-1602-SP application form).
4. Fingerprints if required.
5. The processing fee of $100.
Shiloh -- What will you do when Wisconsin's public servants no longer have collective bargaining rights?
Will there be blood on the streets? Or will it be gardening and furiously masturbating to your favorite chapters of Frantz Fanon? Feel free to google Frantz Fanon, then get back to us.
fls showing his empathy for the unemployed ...
I salute you sir :)
FLS -- Or he could continue with some of the best journalism of the year. Why pick on Meade when there are clearly hundreds of people at the capitol building quite literally standing around doing nothing?
Has it really come to this weak and pussy of a bunch of arguments and snide and belittling remarks? Really?
$100 says Shiloh does not have a job.
Meade's lucky the lady with the mean whispery voice didn't give him a hard pinch to drive home her point.
If Shame had a voice and face, it would look and sound like her, right down to the very words.
"You are a person against us all.
The whole nation is looking at you."
No love, no truth, no justice, no mercy, no goodness, no excellence, no life, no respect in that message. The slyness, tone and intent involved with the delivery of this lie gives me the creeps.
Notice that Meade is studiously not feeding the troll douchenozzle.
Meade is winning on points.
Earnlancer.com is a global outsourcing solution and freelance jobs website. Here you can find freelance coders, writers, programmers, designers, marketers and more.The worlds largest outsourcing marketplace ,it is freelance jobs website. We have thousands of freelance jobs online for freelance programmers, web designers, graphic designers.
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4. Fingerprints if required.
5. The processing fee of $100.
The funny thing being that when corporations place requirements like this on employment, lefties throw a hissy fit. :)
MamaM, and with that you've also described the ugliness of shiloh's posts about Meade. If this was my blog, I would ban sick people like shiloh and a few others for their disturbing personal attacks on Meade (and Ann). I don't know Meade's age, but I know Ann is 60, so I would think Meade is roughly the same age in which case he could be retired. But that is beside the point. Neither Meade nor Ann have to explain themselves to anyone, least of all to people who comment for the express purpose of abusing and belittling them, the owners of this blog.
That's actually a good example of one of the many things public employee unions do -- exclude as many people from the labor force as possible.
For example, an acquaintance of mine is a cop in flyover country. He considered a move here to California, but ruled it out because the local police unions pushed through regulations requiring any out-of-state cop to go through extra training and then start over as a rookie. Needless to say, not a lot of out-of-state law enforcement apply for jobs here.
Which keeps the labor pool conveniently small, increasing the bargaining power of the union. Oh, sure, the people of California are worse off, and police in the other 49 states are worse off -- but the ones who already have their jobs have it pretty good.
Althouse don't ban people, virtually ever. This is to her everlasting credit, for the principle of free speech and because it makes her commentariat a better place. If I wanted some right-wing hothouse where everyone agrees, I wouldn't come here.
That said, Shiloh is obviously a sad, bitter person. Think how sad these people will be when their side loses, though. That's part o the bitterness. You have to understand.
At the end of the day I think I speak for the rest of the non Wisconsin world when I say that you are a boring and stubborn people. All of you. Is it the winters? You take a perfectly good opportunity to display your uniqueness and you do! You pack a two day problem into three weeks. The world yawns.
They are turning into a mob.
Althouse & Meade, this is a good reminder that the two of you need to double up on cams. Same for any others dealing with Union Thugs. One vid cam can protect the other from getting a beat down.
I think I speak for the rest of the non Wisconsin world when I say that you are a boring and stubborn people. All of you.
To be fair, I think alot of these Union Thugs are being bused in from out of state.
$100 says Shiloh does not have a job.
He's also a poser, claiming to be a Navy vet approaching age 60. But his conversations here don't reflect the life experience and wisdom you would expect of such a person. Instead, he comes off like a punk kid from Dem Underground.
So he's either lying, or he's a very pathetic human being.
Indeed, rcocean.
All of this is reminiscent of the anti-war protests 45 years ago, where these tactics were honed.
shiloh said...
Kill freedom of speech
Kill freedom of speech
Kill freedom of speech
Says the guy w/wayyy too much free time!
Welcome to democracy in action ie the real world, not like this blog where everything AA posts is anti-unions, anti-collective bargaining and pro Walker. And Meade, if you're not willing to suffer for your art ;) you may have to give up your hobby lol 'cause your god awful at playin' the victim, eh.
btw, there have been (139) reporters, editors, producers, photo-journalists, technicians KIA in Iraq from 2003 to 2009 so dude, you got it easy w/your spur of the moment hobby ...
English translation: We're losing, we're losing. Got to change the narrative or drown them out.
Someone called Meade "just a Walker plant"?
Oy.
Stay classy Wisconsin unionistas.
And thanks for stopping by.
I don't want to hear one more word about Tea Parties that create an atmosphere of violence.
Oh you already know what the MSM and the Libtards will spin:
"Everybody does it, so the Union Thugs are excused"
"Is it the winters?"
I think you've hit on something... what else are people going to do in the endless cold and dark? It's this or binge drinking.
I like the guy who turned "peaceful" into "asshole" in that mob video.
/via Malkin
Liberty Chick on Twitter:
“Democratic Senator Timothy Cullen has just returned to WI tonite. WI-14 is now WI-13.”
"You are a person against us all.
The whole nation is looking at you."
The proper non-conformist answer would be, "So?"
It's funny to watch our idiot lefties turn on a dime. When Meade asked questions forcing the protesters to engage ideas they preferred not to, they called hm an asshole, a douche, and an instigator. Not only are the protesters doing what he did, they're going far beyond it. But when they do so, Meade is "playing the victim".
Eventually you have to believe most lefties are aware they do this. The level of stupidity required to not see this is mind-numbing.
This may be the most powerful Meade video yet.
His responses are more measured, and he's now using the Althouse technique of calmly asking the challenging, professor-like question.
The various reactions are priceless: scurrying away, spouting non-responsive slogans, changing the subject, making whispered threats, and now quite literally trying to shut him up.
If this protest goes on long enough, Meade will be a truly awesome citizen reporter.
Please keep it up.
I had hoped the Madison union chanters and drummers and whistlers would get back to work and let our representative democracy function.
They lost. Aim for the next election.
But they seem increasingly intent on letting thuggery take hold. Violence is just a hair's breadth away.
I thought the "Did you vote" line of questioning sort of wandered off into the weeds. When Meade started it, I thought he was going to make the point that in a voting booth there's none of the dialogue that Mr. "It's-Interesting-That" is so obsessed with-- and that sometimes democracy is just a matter of standing up and being counted. But in the end, I couldn't figure out where it was supposed to be going.
peter hoh said...
Ugh.
I don't know if it's a group thing or something else that makes people forget that uncivil behavior hurts their cause
Um, it isn't "the group" it is in these people's makeup.
They are arrested development adolescents who have no critical thinking abilities. Which is true of the overwhelming majority of the modern "progressives"
I agree, Paul, but it would be hard to maintain a coherent discussion in a mob, and some bonehead whistling in your ear.
I think Sign lady doesn't want to talk to Ms. Brigid and her hubby because she's got them pegged. She's had that conversation before and she doesn't want to deal with it. Been there, sign lady. Been. There.
Michael Barone-
"Taxpayers, present and future, . . . are the source of every penny of dues paid to public employee unions, who in turn spend much of that money on politics, almost all of it for Democrats. In effect, public employee unions are a mechanism by which every taxpayer is forced to fund the Democratic Party."
Link
shiloh said...
Kill freedom of speech
Kill freedom of speech
Kill freedom of speech
Says the guy w/wayyy too much free time!
Yes, because preventing a Republican legislator from entering the capitol building is now "freedom of speech"
You're so dumb that I kind of feel sorry for you.
by which every taxpayer is forced to fund the Democratic Party."
Which is why they're in the epic meltdown mode.
Democratic party ideas & politicians are not popular in the majority of America. If this funding source is greatly reduced, their party will be increasingly reduced to the fringes.
Nobody breaks knees anymore.
Unions are really going downhill.
Wow, Dr. Althouse really picked a stud out of all of the flotsam and jetsom of commenters to her blog.
Wonder what Meade did in the Sixties Vietnam days.
Why can't the Republicans offer the part of the bill removing CB rights as a stand alone thus eliminating the need for 20 senators? It's not a fiscal measure and therefore subject to different quorum rules, correct?
Once that vote went through, the Dems could come back.
Confession:
I was once a scab.
Freshman year of college, a union at a small local plant that made stereo speakers went on strike. After a month, the jobs were opened up. I needed summer work, and it was 1980, sliding into recession, no jobs to be had.
Confession 2:
I come from a family with meat-packing industry background. Very pro-union. Almost a religion.
But I never understood whether it was unions or capitalism itself (competing for workers) that made the workplace better.
And I couldn't see how striking in a bad market made any sense at all.
My lessons?
1) The union bosses don't give a shit about their members. After the summer, all the temp help gone, the factory hired back the union. Within 3 months they shut down for good, having lost too much money (and contracts) in the strike.
2) Like any other tool, unions can be constructive or destructive.
3) Mobs like a good bit of violence, given half the chance, and the cover of anonymity a mob provides. It can be quite fun, at least so it appears on their faces, when the fun starts.
The world of the left consists of:
1. Rich CEOs
2. Just plain rich
3. Working families (public employees)
4. Poor
5. Homeless
One group is conspicuous by their absence. Let's call this group "Those that shall not be mentioned".
It's like Where's Waldo, only in reverse.
Eh, that strikes me less as political silencing, and more just telling an annoying guy to shut up. I mean, everyone in that video is annoying, but that cameraman is like skin grindingly so. The part where he's like "I don't just go up to people and say 'who are you?'" seconds after saying pretty much the same thing to somebody else. Sheesh.
Aah, yes.
The forgotten man, the one who pays for it all.
Wow, Dr. Althouse really picked a stud out of all of the flotsam and jetsom of commenters to her blog.
Ad hominem - the last refuge of a losing lefty.
(Actually, it's usually their first refuge too.)
Just like the zombies in the 'Omega Man', the union thugs are the essence of self-interest run amok. They are the very incarnation of what the left cries about incessantly - 'selfish' Americana. They don't see that their apparatchik denies private property and free speech.
In today's parlance, 'union' means 'we're special, because we say we are'.
@pogo
Thats 1 of a few books on my list to read.
Once that vote went through, the Dems could come back.
Bullshit formulation. "The Dems could come back" this very nano-instant; they simply CHOOSE not to do so.
Ad hominem - the last refuge of a losing lefty.
(Actually, it's usually their first refuge too.)
Often it's their ONLY rfuge.
If this was my blog, I would ban sick people like shiloh and a few others for their disturbing personal attacks on Meade (and Ann)
Blogger software doesn't allow you to ban commenters. To have an effective ban tool (banning by I.P. address) you'd have to own your own domain.
Althouse could use the forum moderation option but that would entirely change the flow of the threads since you'd have to wait for your comments to clear moderation.
Quayle, it was a joke.
Self deprecating humor.
I was complimenting Dr. Althouse on her mate picking ability.
And how do you do that italic thing to comment on someones post?
I'm starting to get worried for you guys out there. Meade looks like he just barely escaped what could have easily been a situation escalating into violence. Be careful!
Paco Wove has hit on a key part of it. Ever notce all the binge drinking nations/nationalities in Europe are northerners? The Scots, the English in the north, northern Germans vs southern Germans, the Scandinavians, Icelanders, etc. And that the further north the greater the alcoholic content of the beer--especially noticeable in Germany--and the preference for hard liquor over, say the wider consumption of wine in the south of France and Italy, i.e., areas of all nations bordering the Med., where it's more sip, sip, sip all day rather than binge drinking. A lot to that theory because it's based on fact.
Professor, Meade....
"If you're taking flak, you must be over the target".
Stay on target.
Stay safe.
And thank you.
Compelling video but not journalism. Once Meade started to engage in a "discussion" which was actually a debate/argument it was no longer journalism. It reminded me a little of that CNN "journalist" a couple years back who interviewed some folks at a Chicago Tea Party rally but who's questions revealed not only a bias but an agenda. To be fair, I imagine it must be hard not to get "emotional" in such a crowd.
As for the linked video of the Wisc State Senator getting accosted, this is ominous for the protesters. Will they "lose the narrative"? And it was refreshing to see that the '60's live on with the peace signs. In this instance its getting both scary and absurd.
(PS An elected official shouldn't feel "shame" for voting the way his electorate want him to vote.)
Why can't the Republicans offer the part of the bill removing CB rights as a stand alone thus eliminating the need for 20 senators? It's not a fiscal measure and therefore subject to different quorum rules, correct?
It certainly can be done but Walker and the Senate Republicans don't want to be seen as mean-spirited. Also, Walker insists that the reforms he's proposing cannot be severed from his financial plan.
Once that vote went through, the Dems could come back.
The Dems will be back soon...they are currently negotiating the terms of their surrender.
Senate Majority Leader met with Democrats
MADISON - A two hour meeting in Kenosha between two Democratic Senators and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald was not about negotiating the budget repair bill. It was about a potential return to the state Capitol.
“It wasn’t real heavy,” said Fitzgerald. “It was light actually on the way we discussed stuff and joked with each other about the situation they find themselves in and the situation we’re in.”
“There have been some concessions,” said Democratic Senator Dave Hansen. “They are not great but it is something.”
Hansen says any concessions will come in the form of an amendment to the budget bill. He says Assembly Majority Leader Jeff Fitzgerald would rather not have the repair bill be re-opened in his chamber.
My only question is is that what they have teaching in schools? That having an opinion different from the a large enough group is something you should be ashamed of?
The part where he's like "I don't just go up to people and say 'who are you?'" seconds after saying pretty much the same thing to somebody else. Sheesh.
Seemed like Meade was having a conversation with kinda reasonable Wisconsin guy and his annoying wife, when some other random people started interjecting with "who are you?" They weren't furthering the conversation, they were trying to end it by asking pointless questions. What does it mattter who anybody is? It should be about the issues.
Compelling video but not journalism. Once Meade started to engage in a "discussion" which was actually a debate/argument it was no longer journalism.
You're allowed to do that if you're "new" media :)
And it was refreshing to see that the '60's live on with the peace signs. In this instance its getting both scary and absurd.
The reason they were doing the peace sign thing is (it looked to me) the quick thinking Dem congressmen played on that old 60's sentiment. Smart of him.
Although I didn't that he seemed to be trying to deflect the mob anger towards Walker instead of his friend, he was probably just trying to get it off the immediate target and on somebody who wasn't there to assault.
Wow, Dr. Althouse really picked a stud out of all of the flotsam and jetsom of commenters to her blog.
That gave me a big laugh. Don't read it sarcastically, Quayle. It's true!
As for me, I'm jetsam. My comments are free to the finder.
One more thing about the linked video of the Senator getting accosted. Can I assume the folks with the "big" cameras are from major media outlets? If so the impression given by this video is they were as much a part of the "dangerous mob" as the mob itself. They were clearly not going to "step in and help"
@Fprawl -- It was a good joke.
What you do is type <i> to start italics and </i> to end italics.
I'm trying to imagine if I had a pro-Walker sign and got confront by an angry bunch. Do I try to argue my case? Or do I calmly stand there and let my sign and presence speak for themselves?
It's "odd... socially irresponsible" to have sign but not lay out the argument? Excuse me? What would be the point? Are they going to listen? consider? concede any good points I have?
There's not just freedom of speech. I believe strongly in the freedom *not* to speak if I don't want to.
"because preventing a Republican legislator from entering the capitol building is now "freedom of speech""
I saw it described that way in a post, but it's wrong. They weren't "preventing him from entering", they were attacking him. They had trapped him and were surrounding him and yelling at him from all side. The Democratic Assemblyman rescued him, not by bringing him into the building (he doesn't seem to have been at a usable entrance), but by pulling him out of the crowd, moving him somewhere different where he could enter, and getting the crowd to chant "Peaceful" instead of what they were doing before.
projection - In PSYCHOANALYSIS, a DEFENCE MECHANISM where a person UNCONSCIOUSLY attributes to other people feelings he has himself but which are too threatening to the EGO to admit into his CONSCIOUSNESS.
The left would have us believe that conservatives are the lizard brained drones who are prone to violence.
Mirror, Mirror.
Trey
Hilarious, if there is no chant the lemmings don't know what to do.
Mirror, Mirror.
Indeed Trey. If you want to know what lefties are thinking/doing, look at what they accuse you of. It's all right there.
I'm trying to imagine if I had a pro-Walker sign and got confronted by an angry bunch.
Leftists protestors are trained to incite violence within the boundry of the law. You can expect them to use such techniques to get you to throw the first punch (ex: pointing their fingers in your face, an inch out, hoping you will try to swat their hand away).
When that doesn't work, they will use tame assaults, like shoving or pushing you.
The police will not protect you from this. And you can be sure that the moment you "push back", the MSM will swarm in to capture "acts of violence by Walker supporters".
This is why its a good idea for peeps to travel in two's and three's, each armed with vid cams to record violence. Leftist Brownshirts are much less likely to attack you if they know their is at least one vid camera capturing the assault.
Fprawl said:
"Wow, Dr. Althouse really picked a stud out of all of the flotsam and jetsom of commenters to her blog."
Not gonna lie, Ann broke a lot of hearts when she married Meade (I was already taken, but I digress).
Meade, stay safe for our professor.
If this was my blog, I would ban sick people like shiloh and a few others for their disturbing personal attacks on Meade (and Ann).
Of course you would and must compliment Ann's supporters for never/ever makin' any personal attacks on their opposition, eh.
And oh the irony of quoting my er Meade's kill freedom of speech as we're now regressing back to Nixon/ailes/safire America, love it or leave it and cheney/bush's you're either w/us or against us nonsense ...
Indeed, why do conservatives hate America and the freedoms which made it great.
and please don't chime in all at once ;) answering my rhetorical question.
take care
"Edcucation" ???
God help our children if that woman is a spelling teacher.
The problem with being both reporter and videographer is that you lose awareness of threats around you because of your focus on the subject. That's why another set of eyes let alone a camera is a huge help. Crap, I wish I didn't have a job or I would be there to take his six in a heart beat. But then, unlike the unionistas, I have a job.
What literary creatures also stoked fear and horror into their victims with the use of drum-banging, marching, and chanting?
They were unable to talk in complete sentences or form rational arguments, and they used short bursts of words, similar to the ones I've heard this week: "you fascist," "drown him out!" and "Him Koch puppet."
Also, they were known for being vulgar, crass, and odiferous, and they laughed heartily at each other's two-word jokes when they weren't fighting amongst themselves. They needed a strong Boss to keep them in line.
It's a three-letter word that starts with an O and ends with a C.
Pricing Yourself Out Of A Monopoly Market
Thanks to Machos for the fine turn of phrase. I think I added a nice one as well.
And how do you do that italic thing to comment on someones post?
Put <i> before the text you want to italicize and </i> after the text you want to italicize.
Not gonna lie, Ann broke a lot of hearts when she married Meade
That makes at least two. And I'm already mated.
With all due respect to our host, what the hell is wrong with the teaching profession that it has so many stupid people in it. If someone tells me they have a degree in education, I don't know if they are a complete idiot or an average informed American, but my bet would be on the idiot, just playing the odds. I grew up respecting and loving teachers, but unions have reversed that. I now despise them and I hate that. I don't see how that can be fixed as long as the unions exsist. Maybe all this will start to reverse the decay, but that's unlikely.
Great work Meadhouse. There is no better place on the web to see what's happening there and who is doing it. It is not pretty, but it's obviously pretty easy to find proof of the problem. It walks right up to you and attacks. Meade is like a wildlife photographer. Remember dude, they see you as food.
Jane Wrote: It's a three-letter word that starts with an O and ends with a C.
Oompa Loompa?
No? Give me a minute.
I thought they sounded pretty reasonable up front--the woman off camera was holding a sign and they asked her about it. She refused to answer their questions.
Conservatives use that tactic all the time--approach people with opposing signs and ask them questions to show that they don't know the issues they're demonstrating about.
Either it's a legitimate tactic or it isn't. In my opinion, it is. Don't show up with a sign if you're not willing to talk about it.
It all fell apart when the focus shifted to Meade's camera, but I'm not overly impressed with his comportment in this video either--he was fully within his rights, but at that point he seemed to be fishing for a confrontation too. And he got one.
The drums echo their heartbeats ... Doom, Doom, Doom
Just watched that video of the Republican senator being accosted by the mob.
Honestly, I'm done with the left. These people are animals - Incapable of higher brain functions or emotional and psychological stability. I used to listen to their side, but no more.
Never.
Again.
They support their own representatives fleeing the state to subvert democracy and try to prevent the opposition party from doing its democrtic duty. They project, they oppress, they dodge, shirk, blame shift, and can't perform basic math.
No compromise, no listening, no compassion. They deserve to be treated this way as it is how they live.
If I lived up there Professor and Meade, I would aggressively defend you.
Fuck them. Forever.
Phil3:14@8:07/
That was Susan Roesgen, long an evening news anchor for the NBC affiliate in New Orleans who left in 2000 to go to Nat Geographic (amidst marital difficulties) When that didn't work out she fled back doing some radio for both NPR and TV as field reporter for the local ABC affiliate. Hence on to CNN. After CNN fired her over the Chicago deal she again fled back to N.O and the ABC affiliate where she is now the evening anchor.
Leftists protestors are trained to incite violence within the boundry of the law.
Fen knows. Schoolteachers are trained in agitprop techniques during summer sessions at the Soros Institute. (Disguised as weekend studies in facilitating schoolyard games such as Foursquare, natch.)
Then the cell leaders pass on their techniques at seemingly harmless gatherings such as "book club night" or "quilting."
There is a lot of wasted attention on free speech and rights, but the question is not very complicated:
Should public employees get job security, pay and benefits far above their private sector equivalents (who pay them), and should they get them regardless of the state's fiscal situation?
what the hell is wrong with the teaching profession that it has so many stupid people in it.
I thought conservatives understood the free market. These are the best teachers you can get at the salaries you wish to pay. Offer Althouse-type salaries, and you will get Althouse-caliber teachers.
Fingerprints, etc. are required of candidate substitute teachers, by the way, because parents don't want their tots molested by the teachers.
Should public employees get job security, pay and benefits far above their private sector equivalents (who pay them)
But the issue on the table is "Should public employees have the right to gather together to negotiate for their job security, their pay, and their benefits."
Anyone familiar with the First Amendment guarantees of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly would have to say yes.
Interesting the new media Meade gets to ask all the questions, but will not reveal his name--hardly a journalist practice. As I have said all along my impression is Meade wants to provoke a violent act, and at last he has.
Shorter RV: "Her skirt was too short, she had it coming"
former law student, the free market doesn't operate properly for teachers because of the stupid licensing requirement most states have that forces would-be teachers to waste a couple of years of their lives in schools of education which are absolutely mind-numbing and useless. I could walk into any school today and be a great teacher but I don't have the time or patience to jump through those hoops.
FLS: Anyone familiar with the First Amendment guarantees of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly would have to say yes.
No True Scotsman? Defend your assertion.
Anyone familiar with the First Amendment guarantees of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly would have to say yes.
The First Amendment guarantees mandatory union membership and collective bargaining for benefits and working conditions, really?
Please explain, then, why Federal employees don't have any of that stuff?
Or are Federal workers oppressed, downtrodden martyrs who are having their civil rights trampled on by THE MAN?
Fingerprints, etc. are required of candidate substitute teachers, by the way, because parents don't want their tots molested by the teachers.
I was fingerprinted as a member of a parent-run cooperative preschool. It's not like it's any great hardship.
Oh, btw, a great preschool. Did I mention parent-run?
former law student, the free market doesn't operate properly for teachers because of the stupid licensing requirement most states have that forces would-be teachers to waste a couple of years of their lives in schools of education
Free market fails for lawyers, too. Abe Lincoln didn't have to waste three years of his life and $150K to become bar-eligible, right?
Maguro:
Please tell me about Federal employees' failed struggle to unionize. The Federal employee who comes to my doorstep six days a week is in a union. I am familiar with Reagan's successful suppression of the Air Traffic Controllers' union, of course.
"These are the best teachers you can get at the salaries you wish to pay."
Well then, lets test that theory. Let anyone apply and compete via testing and let them negotiate their pay. Let the customers pick which schools to spend their money on.
The more we have paid teachers the worse they have performed, because in the current system their pay has nothing to do with their performance or that of the school.
You have no idea how a free market works, nor do the teachers. And they are educating people for whom understanding it is probably the most important lesson they can learn.
FLS, you are proof of the problem, because you are probably well educated by current standards.
"Welcome to democracy in action ie the real world,"
So shiloh when it bites you in the ass you can deal with it and STFU.
Well then, lets test that theory.
Over a century of experience of public schooling in America isn't enough of a test?
@fls - Federal employees do have a union, but it's not mandatory and it can't collectively bargain for benefits. It functions much like Wisconsin public employees unions will once Walker's bill is passed.
Do you stand by your claim that the First Amendment guarantees all the rights and privileges that the Wisconsin public employee unions currently have?
Over a century of experience of public schooling in America isn't enough of a test?"
I think it is. Since unionizing it has lost much of it's usefulness while increasing dramatically in cost. I call that a proven failure. Any product or service in the free market would have been forced to correct that and would by now cost less, be much improved or both. Are you against that outcome for education?
The more we have paid teachers the worse they have performed, because in the current system their pay has nothing to do with their performance or that of the school.
Teacher salary schedules are public documents for every school district. Everyone considering a career has access to them.The people who end up in teaching are those who find the salary and benefits paid to teachers to be acceptable.
Many people bail out of teaching, by the way. The cumulative attrition rate for the first five years is quite high. In Illinois, for example, 40% of new teachers quit teaching within their first five years.
http://ierc.siue.edu/documents
/New_Teacher_Attrition_Study-
Exec_Summary_Key_Findings.pdf
As I have said all along my impression is Meade wants to provoke a violent act, and at last he has.
LOL - those unions thugs are so easily provoked too. I bet I could just stand (or somebody smaller than me anyway) there with a sign supporting Walker and the intimidation, if not violence, would start.
Mail Handlers employed by the USPS are covered by a National Agreement, which is our collective bargaining agreement covering a wide array of issues relating to wages, hours, benefits, and working conditions. The NPMHU has a National Negotiating Team that meets with the Postal Service management several months before the contract expires. Based on suggestions submitted by rank-and-file Union members, the team proposes contact language to which the Postal Service responds, and through a concentrated series of discussions, and with the give and take of negotiation, they attempt to reach an agreement that works for everyone.
It all seems rather namby-pamby wimp stuff to me. I mean, that little bit of verbal pressure trying to get someone to discuss their point of view.... is THUGGERY? Or denial of freedom of speech?
It's GOVERNMENT suppression of free speech that's illegal, and government employees on their own clock trying to provoke a discussion (or an argument) doesn't come close to any law breach.
A little name-calling isn't thuggery either. But in the world of the pampered, hurting one's feelings is something that draws gasps of outrage. Feigned? I dunno.
As for the state rep being hounded, even that was nothing like the tar and feather days. Sure, that kinda crowd pressure is likely to race the pulse a little. But with the non-violence record of the Madison crowd, that doesn't reach the thuggery level either, not by a longshot.
The old saw about 'if ya can't take the heat...' applies. If a threat of violence occurred, that'd be different. But in this video, all I heard were accusations and judgments.
Waa-waa... (yawn).
"The people who end up in teaching are those who find the salary and benefits paid to teachers to be acceptable.
Many people bail out of teaching, by the way. "
So then the system is terribly dysfunctional since the customers AND the employees find it unbearable despite paying well. At least the teachers can leave. I imagine the smartest ones depart leaving those with the fewest options and their students behind. How much proof do you need that this thing needs radical reform?
@fls - The Postal Service is not part of the Executive branch so it has its own rules. But Federal workers in any branch headed by a cabinet secretary - Defense, Homeland security, Agriculture, etc. - don't have the right to collectively bargain for wages and benefits.
Are you suggesting this arrangement is unconstitutional?
"As I have said all along my impression is Meade wants to provoke a violent act, and at last he has."
R-V gives an apt demonstration why the left has completely and lost its hive-mind.
Only in the deranged mind of a lefty was Meade's speech an incitement to violence.
The whistle guy's sign says, "Who will want to be a teacher now?"
ME!!!! ME!!!! - I would love to retire from my current job and take up teaching in maybe Appleton? I have relatives there and really love it. I could easily teach at least 18 years - and I would BE THRILLED to make a nice base pay of oh... say... $40,000? And contribute a % to my eventual retirement and pay what I pay now for health care (about $375 a month)
so - CAN I GET ONE OF THOSE JOBS? I don't need to bargain with anyone ...
Linked with a video roundup: 'Mobs and Slobs Turn Madison Into Progressive Pigsty'.
Kevin Hayden said: " But in this video, all I heard were accusations and judgments."
A video is for watching, not listening. If you think anyone in that crowd was interested in hearing the man's POV, you're as stupid as you are naive
Of course, it goes without saying that they were preventing an elected official from doing his job, but then, that's not a big deal to anti-democracy liberals now is it?
CAN I GET ONE OF THOSE JOBS? I don't need to bargain with anyone ...
Will you be one of the 40% who quit, or will you be one of the 60% who stay? I'd sign up to be a substitute to help you decide. That would require flexibility from your current employer.
So then the system is terribly dysfunctional since the customers AND the employees find it unbearable despite paying well.
Forty percent of new teachers decide that with their skills, education, and work ethic they can do better elsewhere -- I would say that's a sign of being underpaid.
Fish. Barrel. Smoking gun. Some assembly required.
The USPS is a government corporation with a monopoly on some types of mail delivery. The union is basically driving it to bankruptcy.
Since the USPS can't tax the public directly, it must raise the price of stamps. Every time it does so, the number of First Class letters [it's major monopoly] goes down.
The USPS sometimes does get a bailout from the feds via tax dollars, but that probably over, too.
I realize that fls isn't all that bright, but, really.
And he ignores the other 2,000,000 or so fed employees who aren't unionized. I wonder why?
Oh, well, eviscerating his 'arguments' is only fun for so long. It's probably a good thing he didn't make it as a lawyer. I'd hate to see him starve.
Forty percent of new teachers decide that with their skills, education, and work ethic they can do better elsewhere -- I would say that's a sign of being underpaid.
Actually it's a sign that the seniority system works against the talented and the ambitious.
Mediocre teachers get paid well for what they do.
Barrier to entry is just one of the biggest problems with public education. The other is that the career and salary track is based not just on seniority, but on seniority in a given state and school district.
You can thank a union for that.
And when you're talking about the costs of public education, you HAVE to account for the costs of administrators. You can thank a union for that, too.
FLS;
I don't see a lot of "free market" with teachers and their governmental employees. In a free market if I don't like the way Walmart pays me I can quit and go to work for Target -OR-I can get a lot of my co-workers together and we can collectively demand better. Either way if Walmart's business is hurt by poor management/labor relations Walmart will lose money and then need to figure out how to fix it and still stay competative.
With teachers, yes they can go work for a private school but my public school bosses aren't the owner/financiers of the company, the tax payers are and they don't have much of seat at the table. And if the customer doesn't like the product I and my school deliver I can take my business elsewhere BUT I still have to pay the "business" I no longer do business with through my taxes. That would seem to encourage teachers to say "don't the door hit your ass (and your kids ass) on the way out"
Fingerprints, etc. are required of candidate substitute teachers, by the way, because parents don't want their tots molested by the teachers.
Good thing they are on strike, eh?
And he ignores the other 2,000,000 or so fed employees who aren't unionized. I wonder why?
I wonder why they're not unionized, either. How do their jobs and salaries compare to public school teachers'?
In a free market if I don't like the way Walmart pays me I can quit and go to work for Target ...
With teachers, yes they can go work for a private school but my public school bosses aren't the owner/financiers of the company, the tax payers are
You might have to pack up and move. Where I live there are Targets but no Wal-Marts. Out in the sticks there are Wal-Marts but no Targets. Fresh graduates with a year or two experience could go anywhere in the country to teach: just pack up a U-Haul and go.
I forgot to add: Your local school board is elected, right? School board members are thus chosen by the citizenry. This leaves out immigrants who pay taxes but don't vote, and includes destitute citizens who live in government housing.
And when you're talking about the costs of public education, you HAVE to account for the costs of administrators. You can thank a union for that, too.
Because workers demand a lot of deadweight managers? I'm not familiar with that.
Because workers demand a lot of deadweight managers? I'm not familiar with that.
Administrators are public employees too, remember. Unions like rules. Unions like centralization. Rules and centralization create bureaucracy.
This is worth a read.
People, please do not engage with these attention-seeking lefties! Don't meet them on the battleground of their choice. When they come at you and try to set the agenda with their guff, YOU NEED TO SET THE AGENDA and say to them, "You hate yourself. Every time you look in a mirror you don't like what you see and you want to blame that on me!" You say that to them, because that is the truth. Hit them with REALITY, REALITY being the thing they most fear. The entire ideology of the left is based upon their self-loathing. They approach the self-respecting and attractive at these demonstations in order to pick fights with you, because that's as close as they will ever get to having sex with you or, to being you, which is what they really want. When they try to drag you into their irrational arguments,just keep saying, "It's not my fault you hate yourself. You've never worked at being a human being. That's why you make noise all the time like a two year old. I'm minding my own business. Why can't you? You have no business to mind, do you? You wouldn't even have any friends if you weren't out here screaming with the other undesirables. This is the only party you can get into." This will be cut to the heart of them.
At least that guy didn't teach civics. Free speech means...answer my questions or I'll hector you into submission?
Ah, just outsource all their damn jobs. GE has an outsourcing management subsidiary, don't they? Give 'em the contract and let's see the "workers" yell at one of Obama's BFF.
But the issue on the table is "Should public employees have the right to gather together to negotiate for their job security, their pay, and their benefits."
Anyone familiar with the First Amendment guarantees of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly would have to say yes.
Hysterical.
Your "understanding" of the first Amendment is comically ignorant.
Yes. The whole Nation is watching you.
Maam.
Until the end of the clip, when discussion degenerated between opposing protesters and things looked like they might start getting physical, I was thinking how differently such a protest would play out in my home state, Indiana, where we too have a pack of runaway state Democratic legislators but fortunately no crowds of overpaid government workers hanging around the statehouse attempting to intimidate passersby and opposing voices. In Indiana, union leaders calling for supporters to 'get a little bloody' would get their wish, I think. By comparison, Wisconsin seems more civilized, somehow.
Another thing: where are the police? I know the Dane County Sheriff has more or less refused to keep order at the statehouse, but surely Governor Walker can introduce a police presence of some kind to keep the crowd polite or--if push literally came to shove--clear them from the capitol grounds. Most or all state governors command their respective state police forces, I believe. That ugly business with the Wisconsin GOP state legislator this week never should have happened.
The reason they were doing the peace sign thing is (it looked to me) the quick thinking Dem congressmen played on that old 60's sentiment. Smart of him.
So "just cool out!" wasn't going to do it, huh?
GMay: "Of course, it goes without saying that they were preventing an elected official from doing his job"
Actually, you said it. But it was the Guvnor that had the doors locked. It goes with saying that you're incorrect.
And my main point was this is an overblown bit of theater that are causing the vapors in some super-sensitive folks.
And rudeness still ain't thuggery.
Has the freaking media covered ANY of this?
Sorry to shout - but HAS THE FREAKING MSM REPORTED ANY OF THIS?
Or are they still looking for Tea Partiers to smear?
Interesting AFL-CIO pin(blue fist) that the man is wearing. It is similar to the symbol of the International Socialist Organization-just a different color.
I guess the teachers do not mind hanging around union "bullys".It is clear they like to push others around. Great example they are setting for the children they are supposed to teach NOT to bully at school.
Seems hypocritical to me.
It's the new Meade-ia.
The guy with the whistle is wearing a Department of Corrections jacket.
Uh...what are those palm trees doing in madison? Methinks you are perpetuating a lie here. That protest scene is not from madison WI.
@james -- You are so late to the party, man.
Fox and Palm trees:
The troll meme for today.
Interesting AFL-CIO pin(blue fist) that the man is wearing.
The message of the fist is that in union there is strength: fingers on a splayed hand can be bent back and broken.
Kevin Hayden said: "Actually, you said it."
Because apparently it needs to be said for dim bulbs like yourself.
"But it was the Guvnor that had the doors locked."
Got a cite? Because in that video, it's bodies that are preventing him from entering, not locked doors.
"It goes with saying that you're incorrect."
I'll admit it when you can prove it.
"And my main point was this is an overblown bit of theater that are causing the vapors in some super-sensitive folks."
Right, because you fucksticks on the left haven't had the vapors over little old ladies at TEA parties for the past two years.
"And rudeness still ain't thuggery."
Which of course is why the protesters had to start chanting "peaceful, peaceful" over and over again. Next time actually watch the video, then comment.
It must be hard going through life so full of shit
Look around you, lady. There are hundreds of people carrying a sign and not having a dialogue that goes deeper than their 3-5 word chant. Are the state workers standing in solidarity with you also "odd" and "socially irresponsible"?
The claim that eliminating collective bargaining somehow reduces democracy is a hoot. I don't belong to a union so if I want to change government policy the only way I have to do it is to vote. But if someone belongs to a union they have two ways to influence public policy -- vote and bargain. Eliminating public employee collective bargaining actually improves democracy by making it more equal among all citizens, not just those lucky few to be represented by a government union.
"You hate yourself. Every time you look in a mirror you don't like what you see and you want to blame that on me!" You say that to them, because that is the truth. Hit them with REALITY, REALITY being the thing they most fear. The entire ideology of the left is based upon their self-loathing.
~~~~~
Interesting inane generalization as you just describe Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Savage, Coulter, Billo, Malkin, Ingraham, palin, Gingrich, Ensign, Vitter, Sanford, boehner, cantor, joe "you lie" wilson, barbour, perry, bachmann et al.
Also interesting concept attention seeking lefties at a conservative blog as by definition, you are admitting AA is a totally winger blog, which is fine as there are many totally liberal and conservative blogs, not a problem.
Again, the truth shall set you free and if anyone wanted to stand out, a google blog certainly is not your avenue to fame. 538.com, both before and after Nate Silver went to the NTY's is a much better venue w/their critical, intuitive political discussion than AA's constant meme of Obama sucks! here.
Probably the reason AA doesn't go mainstream as it would then promote critical attention to her totally one-sided blog and that wouldn't be any fun, eh.
solo estoy diciendo
I don't belong to a union so if I want to change government policy the only way I have to do it is to vote.
Or you could join the NRA. Or AARP. Or the United States Chamber of Commerce. They will take your dues and add them to thousands of others' using the proceeds to lobby Congress and state legislatures.
FLS floated one out there: "Or you could join the NRA. Or AARP. Or the United States Chamber of Commerce. They will take your dues and add them to thousands of others' using the proceeds to lobby Congress and state legislatures."
Right, and none of the organizations you mentioned have mandatory dues or accept tax dollars.
Do you honestly not understand the difference or were you just wanting to make a non-point?
GMay, I don't speak for 'the Left' nor do they speak for me, though on some things I agree with some of them.
I did see the video. Other than grabbing the camera, I saw nothing like an assault. And the camera was yielded. So again, I don't call that thuggery. Even if the Tea Party did it.
In the video, several cameramen follow Senator Grothman as he tries several entrances and knocks on a window. He ultimately utilizes his cell phone to get the door unlocked and that fails too. Throughout, people were yielding him the right of way, even if they were yelling 'shame'. I heard one woman use the F-bomb repeatedly for about 20 seconds while Grothman walked around.
Rep Hulsey even says we'd like to keep it peaceful 'so we can open the building back up' and explains that the Democrats tried everything to get it opened up.
Yes, at one point, maybe a dozen or so protesters started sounding really angry which caused Hulsey and several from the crowd to start the 'peaceful' chant. Those few hotheads... who were they? Were they trying to stir the crowd to violence? Were they leftists? Teachers? Union members? Paid instigators by either side?
That's not clear. Which makes all conclusions about their identities mere guesswork. Lots of cussing at me doesn't change what's visible but if it makes you feel better, party on, Garth.
none of the organizations you mentioned have mandatory dues
I assure you if you join them, dues are mandatory.
or accept tax dollars.
Not like Halliburton or the Government Contractor Formerly Known As Blackwater does. But what does that have to do with teachers' unions?
Veritas Scholars Academy has live online teachers for grammar school and up.
Here's some of the coursework for one class for 12 years old and up: (it's FULL for next year already):
Western Civilization, The Odyssey of Homer, The Oresteia Trilogy (Aeschylus I), Landmark Herodotus, Gilgamesh , Plutarch Vol. 1, Codes of Hammurabi & Moses, The Theban Trilogy (Sophocles I), The Last Days of Socrates, The Early History of Rome, The Aeneid, The Twelve Caesars, Julius Caesar.
I belong to a Classical co-op. There are 50 mothers in just this group in my hometown that teach our own kids for NO PAY whatsoever.
Our local school superintendent calls us a "drain on the system." LOL.
Because workers demand a lot of deadweight managers? I'm not familiar with that.
Maybe the dead weight managers were once dead weight teachers.
I can be hard to fire a teacher
I just watched the Meade video and the one of the state senator being mobbed. I am in absolute shock. WHAT was Grothman doing walking through there (or attempting to) alone? I would want to have security with me (preferably armed). If I were one of those state reps, I would be applying for a concealed carry permit ASAP and practicing at the range. The hatred was palpable.
And - are these people REALLY teachers? If so, our public school system is even more totally fucked than I had previously thought.
I cannot believe this is happening in the USA. I am absolutely stunned.
And finally - those goddamn drums are enough to make ANYONE lose their minds. I barely made it through the 7min clip without turning the sound down or starting to scream.
I think I need a shower now.
Wow. These two are basically trying to harass this woman into giving her opinion . . . so, why? So they can harass her for holding the view she holds?
I cannot believe this is happening in the USA. I am absolutely stunned.
I think I need a shower now.
~~~~~
Indeed! ;)
Your drama queen hyperbole notwithstanding ...
hopefully you weren't alive during the Vietnam War protest or the African/American Civil Rights struggle of the '50s/'60s.
>
Geraldo, who drew a map in the sand giving away U.S. troop positions, hence becomin' the story instead of reporting it ~ is jealous of Meade the clumsy, inept instigator.
I hope Meade recovers from the brutal haranguing he got from those extremely violent people. It appears the Chicago thugs finally arrived on Obama's bus.
Virgil X. knows what he's talking about, when it comes to drinking. As do I.
Yes I was alive during the civil rights and Vietnam eras. (remember Vietnam protests better). It was not about the violence of the protests per se....you can see worse video from the ME any day. It was about the level of vitriol, hatred and possible violence in proportion to the issue at hand. I mean we are talking about well compensated employees with protected positions...something very rare in the private sector, by comparison. That is what I found so profoundly disturbing. It was/is extremely upsetting that this is the level of behavior in regard to a legislative issue. That representative could have been injured or killed! Is THIS what democracy looks like?
Amy please don't apologize, rationalize being a conservative drama queen as AA and her tagalong wouldn't have it any other way as they themselves are quite good at being cry me a river, winger drama queens!
take care
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"why should you get a choice when other people don't?" is liberal-speak for "you must agree to our demands". Funny kind of choice, that.
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