She did not mention Mr. Edwards in her message on Monday.She did not apologize to us for participating in the deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, which skewed the 2008 Democratic primaries.
“There are certainly times when we aren’t able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It’s called being human,” Mrs. Edwards wrote. “But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. And for that I am grateful.”
ADDED: Death don't have no mercy.
Posts
183 comments:
I have nothing good to say about her,
but I hope Wade is waiting to guide her to whatever comes next.
Thoughts and prayers for her family as they endure this.
Surprising she didn't mention anything about the 2008 election since she's only DYING. I assume she has other issues on her mind.
"She did not apologize to us for participating in the deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, which skewed the 2008 Democratic primaries."
I'm willing to give her a break on this one. Mr. Edwards, notsomuch.
Yeah, I'm seconding every one else-her husband's failed election is, and should be, the last thing on her mind. She's about to lose all she has and all she'll ever have.
My dying message would be --
And a great big raspberry to all a youse.
But that's just me.
she's only DYING. I assume she has other issues on her mind.
Part of the process that helps you "let go" in these situations is confession. I wouldn't have been surprised to see her confront some of the Big Lies she's been a party to.
There have been a lot of accusations that she milked her condition to advance her husband.
How much of that is true, we can only ask ourselves.
But she's facing a hard way to die and, for that, she has my sympathies.
Not the most compassionate observation there Ann.
I'm seconding every one else-her husband's failed election is, and should be, the last thing on her mind.
Again, having been in the unfortunate situation to work with Hospice in several occasions - its not unusual to express remorse and apologize for acts of deceit and treachery.
I agree that she needn't mention it, but I don't find the expectation to be offensive.
My solution, would be to just ignore her and let her die in peace.
By ignore her, I mean, don't buy her books, don't read articles about her, don't blog. Deny her the attention and redemption she seeks.
She and the scumbag she married.
@Fen....I think Christ was the last to die so you could feel better.
putz.
HDHouse: Not the most compassionate observation there Ann.
Its hard to take this seriously when a Libtard weighs in to browbeat the OP over "compassion".
She did not apologize to us for participating in the deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, which skewed the 2008 Democratic primaries.
So you would prefer now that Hillary won the primary? Color me unconvinced.
May a merciful God have pity on her soul.
The less said about her now the better.
Saint Elizabeth and the Ego Monster
"And then there's Elizabeth - who, far from the saint we all imagine, is in fact a monster! If losing a child and bearing up nobly under illness make one a female icon, reads the subtext, well, cursing and riding her staff hard suggest exactly the converse - and there is, apparently, nothing in between. I'm more than willing to believe that Elizabeth Edwards' deification was phony, not to say creepy, given its basis in suffering: I'm also willing to believe that she's a lousy boss. But there is something deeply troubling about deifying a woman for things that happened to her, however horrible, while excoriating her for what she actually does."
"She did not apologize to us for participating in the deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, which skewed the 2008 Democratic primaries. "
Ann I love ya. Really. But why the hell should she apologize for that in a facebook post or tweet or whatever social media she happens to be on at the moment. She's not confessing and we're not her priest.
I am not a fan of hers, but I wish her, and her children, peace.
"She did not apologize to us for participating in the deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, which skewed the 2008 Democratic primaries."
Libtard: So you would prefer now that Hillary won the primary? Color me unconvinced.
She's saying the ends don't justify the means. She used people like Ann, traded on her victimization by Cancer and John's affairs to deceive us.
We gave her a pass out of sympathy, only to discover she was lying to us. Now we're expected to give sympathy at her passing?
Meh.
Sending prayers to her children....
John Edwards is a scoundrel but the big villain is the MSM. They knew what was going on but gave Edwards a pass because he's a Dem. Shame on them.
I just realized Eliz Edwards is a lot like Hillary was in overlooking their husband's affairs for the sake of political ambition.
Also, there's a price for polticizing the Wellstone funeral, politicizing the Correta Scott King funeral, politicizing the death of Ted Kennedy, etc.
The Left doesn't treat its own dead with respect. The corpse is a political prop. So it means very little when they whine about not showing respect for the death of Elizabeth Edwards.
She is no one special, her cancer is nothing special, she was is a pretentious manipulator who was/is married to a vain, pretentious moron. Their vanities have destroyed any good will they pretended to achieve, not only amongst the public, but with themselves.
If Edwards were not in the race, the 2008 primary would have had a different outcome and we would have had two years of President Hillary with her ferocious focus on economy. We would have none of the Muslim apology tour on foreign policy -- she would have kicked the Saudi butt to stop financing terrorists. Oh, she would have done so many things so differently and for the better.
(the other kev)
Not the most compassionate observation there Ann.
Let's remember you said that, say, when Cheney goes to the hospital.
John Edwards is a scoundrel but the big villain is the MSM. They knew what was going on but gave Edwards a pass because he's a Dem. Shame on them.
But Elizabeth Edwards also knew.
My sympathies go out to Elizabeth for spending a life as a wife hooked up with Little Johnnie, the precious actor-lawyer. She never knew when he was telling the truth. He never knew either. John got into into a deception dressed up as a science claiming that fetal distress causing brain damage and got filthy rich...so rich that AlGore tried getting into his own deception dressed up as a science claiming CO2 caused warming.
@fen
i'm sure that you've been repeatedly told you are something of a scummy human being.
Elizabeth Edwards participated in the use of her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power. For that, she is accountable.
I'd rather say a prayer for the 20 unknown human beings in the world who died while I wrote these 3 sentences.
Remember that ego monsters like Elizabeth Edwards get what they've got coming to them.
I'm not a human, but thanks.
"I'd rather say a prayer for the 20 unknown human beings in the world who died while I wrote these 3 sentences."
Exactly.
I'd rather say a prayer for the 20 unknown human beings in the world who died while I wrote these 3 sentences.
That's not very Buddhist of you, professor. You should forgive Mrs. Edwards and pray that she can reach a better karmic state next time around.
She's saying the ends don't justify the means. She used people like Ann, traded on her victimization by Cancer and John's affairs to deceive us.
LoL. Okay Fen. I'm sure you and Althouse care about Edwards supporters like Amanda Marcotte? If the same thing happened to a prominent Republican, the situation would be completely reversed. I know it, you know, it, everyone knows it.
Translated: I care about Democrats sex lives only and will nauseatingly pretend to care about something I could care less about.
Remember that ego monsters like Elizabeth Edwards get what they've got coming to them.
I don't know if you're just a Moby, but to be more precise:
"what she has coming" is not a painful death. Its the lack of sympathy from us, only because she stole our sympathy once before with her lies.
Garage: If the same thing happened to a prominent Republican, the situation would be completely reversed. I know it, you know, it, everyone knows it.
Yes, we know thats your Libtard Morality: imagine the worst in your opponent, then sink to his level, pretend everyone does it, then do it yourself.
I'm not sure what the professor is saying:
1. Elizabeth Edwards owed a duty of disclosure to the general public that John was tomcatting around.
In that case, no Presidential spouse was more stand-by-your-tomcatter than Hillary R. Clinton in 1992. We must castigate HRC as well.
Unless a bastard child makes a difference. Billy Jeff was apparently careful about that.
2. Elizabeth should not have pretended that she was in love with her husband after she found out about the pregnancy/baby.
There are women who still love their rotten husbands.
4. John no longer cared for his cancerous wife.
Possibly, but fooling around with a woman who came on to you while your wife has a terminal disease does not conclusively prove this.
"I'd rather say a prayer for the 20 unknown human beings in the world who died while I wrote these 3 sentences."
Really?
What if one of the twenty was a rapist? Or a murderer? Or a mass murderer?
Sure, it's Christian to pray for such evil doers. But why is it Christian to pray for these unknown (possibly very sinful) folks while withholding prayers for the flawed (i.e. human) EE?
Is Althouse qualified to cast the first stone?
Ann Althouse said...
Elizabeth Edwards participated in the use of her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power. For that, she is accountable."
That certainly is a peculiar dog you are hunting with. I don't suppose that having cancer that she idea did and does have and is killing counts for anything - I mean she isn't and wasn't faking it.
former law student: I'm not sure what the professor is saying:
Try this. Its easier than crafting all those strawmen:
Ann Althouse: "Elizabeth Edwards participated in the use of her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power. For that, she is accountable."
"Elizabeth Edwards is dying."
And John E. is lying.
I have a feeling this blog post will go viral.
stunning.
In that case, no Presidential spouse was more stand-by-your-tomcatter than Hillary R. Clinton in 1992. We must castigate HRC as well.
Ah, but Billy Jeff's campaign wasn't built on the notion that he was some kind of secular saint because he was caring for a cancer-stricken wife.
Elizabeth and John Edwards should really be castigated for running such a schlocky, maudlin, soap operaish campaign. And let's face it, a lot of liberals fell for it.
Elizabeth Edwards was grasping for power and participating in a lie to the American people. Cancer is bad, and I feel sorry for everyone who has it, but it is not a free pass to do wrong. The truth is, we are all dying. We still have ethical responsibilities. In fact, people who know they are checking out have special temptations to take what they want and escape retribution. The same standards apply to all of us. If anything Elizabeth Edwards is someone with greater advantages in life than most people, and the wrongs she chose to commit count.
Poor woman. Poor children. What a jackass.
I hereby commence the cutting of the slack.
I stumbled across all if your comments, read them and just about vomited.
Just think how much John Edwards could have plyed the sympathy card if he just kept it in the pants.
I completely agree, word for word, with Ann's last post.
And I still wish EE and her children peace. Dying of cancer is no picnic, and her children are losing their mother, flawed though she may be.
Johnny can rot in Hell.
We shouldn't vote for John McCain because he was tortured as a prisoner of war.
We shouldn't vote for Barack Obama because, as a half-black man, he might have suffered some racial discrimination.
We shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton because sometimes it's hard to be a woman.
Etc. Etc.
We're talking about ascension to the most powerful position on earth. It's not Queen for a Day. This is real. Get serious. Save your sentimentality for some other occasion.
Evil
in the hearts of people
in the heads of people
in the soul of people
Evil
will let you drive home drunk
will let you blame yourself hurting others
will let you be alone at times needed most
Evil
cares if bills cant get paid
cares if you over spend
cares if it not them spent on
Evil
looks at you and lies
looks at you and laughs
looks at you and hungers for weakness
Evil
wont piss on you if on fire
wont help you if hurting
wont care if you die
Three kinds
Evil
Eviler
Evilest
You can run
but you cant hide from
Evil
(Evil, Vincent Armone)
Hillary Clinton helping Bill lie about an affair to the American people on 60 Minutes:
Kroft: Who is Gennifer Flowers? Do you know her?
Bill Clinton: Oh, yes.
Kroft: How do you know her? How would you describe your relationship?
Bill Clinton: Very limited, but until this, you know, friendly but limited . . . .
Kroft: Was she a friend, an acquaintance? Does your wife know her?
Hillary Clinton: Oh, sure.
Bill Clinton: Yes. She was an acquaintance, I would say a friendly acquaintance . . . .
Kroft: She is alleging and has described in some detail in the supermarket tabloid what she calls a 12-year affair with you.
Bill Clinton: That allegation is false.
Hillary Clinton: When this woman first got caught up in these charges, I felt as I've felt about all of these women: that they . . . had just been minding their own business and they got hit by a meteor . . . . I felt terrible about what was happening to them. Bill talked to this woman every time she called, distraught, saying her life was going to be ruined, and . . . he'd get off the phone and tell me that she said sort of wacky things, which we thought were attributable to the fact that she was terrified.
...
Hillary Clinton: You know, I'm not sitting here – some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette. I'm sitting here because I love him, and I respect him, and I honor what he's been through and what we've been through together. And you know, if that's not enough for people, then heck, don't vote for him.
If anything Elizabeth Edwards is someone with greater advantages in life than most people
Well heck, those advantages aren't doing her a whole lotta good now, are they?
Peter
"I stumbled across all if your comments, read them and just about vomited."
Did it occur to you for the first time that death is real? You pathetic lamb.
To live is to die, to die is to live
Pure is impure and impure is pure
Good is evil while evil is good
Or is it?
In the hearts of men lie both good and evil
The two coexist...some become good others become evil
There is no good without evil,
As there is no evil without good...
(Good and evil-a contemplation, Tork Souad Diana)
If Edwards were not in the race, the 2008 primary would have had a different outcome and we would have had two years of President Hillary with her ferocious focus on economy. We would have none of the Muslim apology tour on foreign policy -- she would have kicked the Saudi butt to stop financing terrorists. Oh, she would have done so many things so differently and for the better.
Only surmisedly. I'm willing to speculate that Hillary would've been a better president than Obama, but I'm not sure that much better.
As for Elizabeth, I won't beat up on the dying. Assuming she is in fact now dying.
I am with Althouse all the way on this one. Edwards used her cancer as a sword upon which she herself now falls. We all die. We all will die. It is useful to meditate on how we live in advance of that inevitability.
Evil people think Evil things
because at some point
in their lack luster lives
the Good that is in us all
just goes totally insane
Ponder this my friends;
To drive a person who is of normal intelligence
crazy
an Evil person needs
but two simple things__
a good excuse and a decent alibi
for all their lies......
Evil always has to get the last word word in
before the lightning strikes and the air is cleaned
(Evil is like Lightning, Ted Sherdian)
If Hillary hadn't helped Bill lie, then some unelectable goofball like Jerry Brown would have been nominated, GHW Bush would have won a second term, and history would have been quite different. For sure HRC would never have been considered Presidential timber. She might have stayed with Bill in Little Rock and become Of Counsel to her law firm, or they might have split up once Chelsea finished high school.
The Edward's young children will be better off not having this scummy conniving bitch is a role model.
I like and will follow Trooper's lead...
Elizabeth Edwards participated in the use of her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power. For that, she is accountable.
...while acknowleging the girl's most definately got a point.
Gabriel Hanna said...
She's about to lose all she has and all she'll ever have.
My wife died of cancer, a miserable death, at an age considerably younger than Mrs. Edwards. She lost her life, and that did not bother her very much. She was completely unfocused on what SHE was losing, and thus at peace.
Michael said...
"I am with Althouse all the way on this one."
I am with Michael all the way on this one.
Hillary Clinton helping Bill lie about an affair to the American people on 60 Minutes:
Yes, proving that these "feminist" women stand by their cheating husbands because they like the perks of power.
Hillary Clinton: You know, I'm not sitting here – some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette.
Oh yes Hillary, yes you are.
To sum up: In the Deceiving America About One's Cheating Presidential Candidate Husband, Elizabeth has sinned less than Hillary because
1. Hillary was healthy and could earn her own living; Elizabeth could not.
2. By lying about her husband, Hillary could later leverage her national exposure as First Lade into the US Senate, from New York State, not little Arkansas, and then be taken seriously as a Presidential candidate in her own right. Elizabeth could look only to her grave.
3. The terminally ill mother understandably would not want to turn her children against their remaining parent by exposing his infidelity.
The truth sucks
The truth hurts
The truth ruins
The truth unveils
The truth hates
The truth disconnects
The truth destroys
The truth scars
The truth lies
it lies about the truth
(Truth, Phil Panebianco)
I stumbled across all if your comments, read them and just about vomited.
Should we mourn Osama Bin Laden because he has terminal kidney disease? You poor little lamb.
All in the April evening,
April airs were abroad;
The sheep with their little lambs
Passed me by on the road.
The sheep with their little lambs
Passed me by on the road;
All in the April evening
I thought on the Lamb of God.
The lambs were weary and crying
With a weak, human cry.
I thought on the Lamb of God
Going meekly to die.
Up in the blue, blue mountains
Dewy pastures are sweet;
Rest for the little bodies,
Rest for the little feet.
But for the Lamb of God,
Up on the hill-top green,
Only a Cross of shame
Two stark crosses between.
All in the April evening,
April airs were abroad;
I saw the sheep with their lambs,
And thought on the Lamb of God.
(Sheep and Lambs, Katharine Tynan)
I agree with Fen's first comment. I sincerely hope Wade is waiting for her, and giving her a tremendous hug as she passes.
Yet another person dies before the Lockerbie bomber.
trooper is reaching reader I am levels of profundity.
"Hey all of you Althouse Hillbillies! Come over here and pelt a cancer stricken woman with rotten tomatoes and then go buy yourself a toaster on Amazon!"
"I am with Michael all the way on this one."
Thanks for the update. But, this isn't exactly news because Althouse has said that you belong to her. If you weren't standing at attention you'd probably be auctioned off (via Amazon, of course).
Maybe that was "with" her, rather than "to" her. :)
I see all these posts about Hillary, and ponder people like Senator Vitter's wife -- or Senator Craig's. Why are they still in their marriages? Should all women behave like Mark Sanford's wife? Or McGreevey's?
I sort of agree with fls's Point #3 at 7:50 -- EE was in a marriage with a scumbag philanderer -- but SP was also her kids' Dad.
You just never know what's going on in someone else's marriage, and judging others' actions will only use incomplete data.
I blame Mickey Kaus.
I guess the bottom line for some of us is that as a cancer victim, she deserved some sympathy.
We gave it to her and she squandered it.
We now don't care to give again.
Ann Althouse --
"This is real. Get serious. Save your sentimentality for some other occasion."
Would that people had done that last election instead of going for the hope.
We're all dying. Some of us just deserve it more than others.
Look ... St. Elizabeth Edwards tried to conceal her husband's philandering and lying from the nation. Think about it. During the Presidential campaign. She knew. She lied.
She is a person who forgot that what goes around comes around.
God sees to it.
Sentimentality isn't the only potential error in this situation, from the praying Christian's perspective.
"This is real. Get serious. Save your sentimentality or vindictiveness for some other occasion."
Yep, she sinned.
I'll say a prayer for her and the children she's leaving behind. It costs me nothing but belief in a loving God.
Then clearly, we're not getting through to you. We want you to vomit - you pusillanimous fucktard.
And to choke on your own chunks.
How about this: That fucking lying cunt can't die slowly enough to make up for what she tried to do to 300 million Americans.
Are you tasting it yet, punk?
My wish is for her to have a peaceful end and her children to be strong in their loss.
There is something quite revolting in the politicization of death and dying. Whether is is by the dying or survivors.
I had once left the house to do something, and when I returned, the radio was on and I found myself listening to an interview with what I thought was one of the most fascinating women I had ever heard.
It was Elizabeth Edwards.
This was long before the horror began, before that dick met that whore, and twisted their lives into something misshapen, ugly, and dark - something NewAge - bringing out the worst in all involved.
I've forgiven Elizabeth Edwards for her weakness. She had a right to be weak. The forces tugging on her, from inside and out, would be too much for most people to bear. I know this. I heard her.
Like me, she was whole once, and she was magnificent.
So this deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, of which Elizabeth was a party -- what exactly was so objectionable about it? Couldn't you say the same thing about Hillary Clinton, Lady Bird Johnson, Jackie Kennedy, Eleanor Roosevelt, Flossie Harding, and any other woman who stood by her man when he was running for president, though she knew (or must have known) about her husband's affairs?
Is it just that Edwards had a child from his affair, which the others did not (exact perhaps Harding)? Or that the Edwards were using their supposedly happy marriage as a selling point to connect to the voters? Was that really such a big part of the primary season? Maybe it was, but I don't remember it much.
Edwards was a long shot anyway. There were two races going on in 2008 for the Democrats. One was between Hillary and not-Hillary. The other was between Obama and Edwards (and lesser candidates) for who was going to be not-Hillary. I don't think there was ever a time when Edwards was close to Obama in that race.
I'm just glad we don't have to go through a national ordeal of the First Lady dying. We haven't had that for almost a century (the first Mrs. Wilson in 1914), and never since broadcast media existed. It would be too much to take, I think.
Komm susser Tod.
An orgy of umlauts.
Hey, forgive me, but do you mean that, Crack?
In the absence of anything good to say about her, I pray for God's mercy on her and her family; for comfort in sorrow, for ease in pain, for rejoicing in death.
@Althouse "We shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton because sometimes it's hard to be a woman."
---------------
Agree wholeheartedly. I would vote for her (having voted for her before) in a heartbeat for different reasons, that she is smart, wonky (we need that now when everything is going haywire), and cares about her country and its people to do the right thing. Elizabeth Edwards participated fully in her husband's deceit of the country and his supporters. Everybody dies. Sentimentality aside like Althouse said, it is how they live and what impact it has on me are of significance.
Most of us fear death. EE has apparently not lead a blameless life, and she has perhaps exploited her impending death for some inscrutable ends. These things didn't really change history for the worse, did they?
Let it be.
"These things didn't really change history for the worse, did they?"
Well, if you're a Democrat, you have to care that this guy almost got the nomination, and there was material that would have come out that would have destroyed him. He was selfishly going for the nomination to the detriment of his party and everyone who had a stake in its success. EE knew this was happening and participated.
I agree with Roux that the liberal biased media was a principal culprit in the facilitation of the deceit of John and Elizabeth Edwards.
But I am disappointed in the harshness of Ann and others in casting judgment upon the dying woman. What is the purpose?
We are not God passing judgment on Edwards. I hope God is merciful towards her, although I note that her statement says nothing about God. She may be making her predicament even worse and risking the ire of worse than Ann.
Is she my worst neighbor? Maybe not, but she is certainly not the best.
WV: himette - a dude who loves his hair as much as John Edwards does.
You guys are hard.
I never liked John Edwards. His wife had nothing to do with it. If you liked him knowing where he came from in life and what he believed, then you just weren't paying attention... or you're a lawyer.
I saw Ann's further intersting take right above mine about how a democrat has grounds to be unhappy with the Edwards.
True, but how does that warrant the public judgments, criticisms and apology expectations related to a dying woman? I just don't see the connection. Sure, it would have reflected well on her to come clean as death approached, but I feel that is her business, not mine.
@AA, all true, but those are all political points. I'm not a Democrat, so I celebrate rather than weep when Democrats eat their children.
But in the broader sense, as Janet Napolitano might say, the system worked, thanks to The National Enquirer. I don't think Edwards could ever have been POTUS.
I hope when your time comes, and you are faced with a painful death, that you'll sure to apologize to everyone for all your faults. Please be sure to include your meanspiritedness towards Elizabeth Edwards.
It's easy to criticize, much more difficult to walk in anothers' shoes.
Look into your heart for why you're so mean.
I don't like Hillary, but she was so far superior to the rest of the field among the Democrats. Edwards was silly, selfish and small, and it was incredibly obvious, whether Elizabeth lied or not. And Obama,......well he was black...kinda. That's a winner! Thank god that will never be enough again.
If I had pursued the presidency....and my wife had been that sick.
I'm pretty sure my old man would have kicked my ass to hell......and then asked me how I liked the accommodations.
Democrats booed us at the Wellstone funeral when we walked in to pay our respects.
Democrats bashed Bush in his very presence at the Correta Scott King funeral.
But they expect us to honor and respect their dead. When even they don't.
Darcy,
Hey, forgive me, but do you mean that, Crack?
Yes, very much so. And, I must say, I don't understand Ann Althouse right now. She, the Obama voter, now says she's above sentiment? She, the labored feminist, has no compassion for a dying, betrayed woman? She, who seems to want to chronicle Hillary's every move, can find such an amazing level of disgust for a calculating pol who, at least, had a reason (or an understandable motivation) beyond her own aggrandizement?
No, right now, I don't understand Ann Althouse at all.
Ann might be playing us here.
"EE knew this was happening and participated."
And she knew her husband would be be blackmail-able.
Imagine that. The President of the United States could have been blackmailed and the First Lady of the United States would have had to go along with it to keep things quiet.
And they would have done it.
That bitch cannot die slowly or painfully enough.
Every bit of what she is going through she has coming to her. She's getting off easy.
I pray for the children both of these fucking degenerates have bestowed their legacy upon.
Thanks, Crack. Very good to know. I thought it was quite beautifully said.
She's not a saint, and she's not satan personified either. She's a human being, with some good traits and some deep flaws, and she's dying. I hope she finds peace at the end of the road and that her kids have strength and support through their loss.
HKatz has it perfect.
Well, if you're a Democrat, you have to care that this guy almost got the nomination, and there was material that would have come out that would have destroyed him.
Like Paula Jones? The Democrats have already been there. Bill is a happy, respected man -- he doesn't even care he can't practice law any more.
Now if Edwards had screwed a Mafioso's girlfriend, as JFK did -- that might be different.
FLS: Like Paula Jones? The Democrats have already been there
Actually, the entire country has been there. POTUS boinking the staff and "going to war" against the Democrat women who charged him with sexual assault, sexual discrimination and sexual harassment... while Al-Queda was free plotting 9-11.
Yah, right. That worked out swell...
EE has said that she continued campaigning because she believed her husband's election was the best thing for the country. How do we know that's not true, that she is not Lady Macbeth?
She just released her statement today, and I'm sad for her and mostly for her kids. They were half destroyed by the a-hole John and now this will complete the destruction. I hope she haunts Johnny and WhatsHerName.
Well Pat, you're entitled to your opinion. And you are very generous.
But for me and many others, they are the Bonnie and Clyde of politics. Elizabeth is a partner, a sidekick. And an accomplice.
POTUS boinking the staff and "going to war" against the Democrat women who charged him with sexual assault, sexual discrimination and sexual harassment... while Al-Queda was free plotting 9-11.
So the impeachment was part of a Republican-alQaeda conspiracy to distract The Leader of the Free World?
A shocking indictment of the GOP, if true.
Ann Althouse said...
Elizabeth Edwards participated in the use of her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power. For that, she is accountable.
I'd rather say a prayer for the 20 unknown human beings in the world who died while I wrote these 3 sentences
==================
Althouse delivers the hard but honest truth.
Saint Elizabeth tried exploiting her condition to help gain her and John Edwards more power before she went. She used the public credulity about deathbed statements to lie repeatedly. Had Edwards been chosen AG or Veep and this finally came out, as it was bound to - it would have been tremendously destructive during the Campaign or from forced resignation when the truth came out.
As is, indictments are pending on John Edwards and campaign officials, with buzz that Elizabeth is not targeted for indictment because she is dying.
As for A. Althouse being "cold" on this, I do not think Anne suffers a lack of empathy as she helped care for her Mom, dying of breast cancer.
Lets also remember another factor. The media knew Edwards and Elizabeth were lying their teeth out......but elected not to run the story the Enquirer broke. And asked later why, many used the "revelations would be hurtful to the Sainted Elizabeth...who IS dying, you know."
I've lost a father and a brother to traumatic death. Both gone within hours, without an opportunity for either to post a final Facebook message or offer thanks to anyone, much less their legions of admirers. Their personal integrity, how truthfully and congruently they lived, had to stand as it was, with no extra time for them to reflect, examine motives, make amends or reconcile their behavior. One was more faithful in living a life that reflected honesty and integrity. As a result, he left behind a more coherent legacy than the other.
Ms Edward's cancer has allowed her an opportunity to review and consider her life story and legacy. It has given her a chance to look for and reconcile incongruent behavior along with dishonest words and actions that do not reflect her true self. It is not mean or judgmental to hope Ms Edwards would choose to put her life in order. For goodness sake: her own, those she loves, and those she wanted to serve from a position of power.
Former Law Student: So the impeachment was part of a Republican-alQaeda conspiracy to distract The Leader of the Free World?
Cute. A conspiracy of one Thong?
Try this instead:
Clinton threw a party in the Oval with our Peace Dividend, then got himself hauled in on charges of sexual assault. While Al Queda attacked our embassies and ships, killing hundreds. The night Al Queda was mapping out flights from Logan International, Clinton was sticking a cigar up inside Monica.
Maybe if Clinton had spent less time and energy 1) arranging to boink the staff 2) evading Hillary 3)handing out jobs for gropes and blowjobs 4) going to war against the legal system investigating him for sexual abuse and 5) obstructing justice, subjorning perjury
And instead spent a bit more time looking at a map of fricken Afganistan...
Maybe 3000 Americans might still be alive.
Fen - Basically a puerile argument that posits a President is an all seeing all knowing entity that if they only put the effort into looking at a particualar thing amongst thousands of things - their Godlike powers could have solved it.
As with the Bush God. Out clearing brush in Texas and pushing tax cuts for the wealthy when he could have saved 3,000 lives. And cured cancer. And discovered the bundled mortgage default derivative schemes his soon to be gifted with massive tax cut pals - were cooking up.
C4- most Americans are ignorant of the Constitution. They think we elect a dictator-in-Chief for 4 years. Please forgive them, they do not know.
former law student said...
... no Presidential spouse was more stand-by-your-tomcatter than Hillary R. Clinton in 1992. We must castigate HRC as well.
Unless a bastard child makes a difference. Billy Jeff was apparently careful about that.
Hard to knock somebody up with a cigar. Blue dresses don't get pregnant.
Laura wrote:
"I am not a fan of hers, but I wish her, and her children, peace."
Ditto. I agree with you.
Although I am of the give her a break, she is dying school, I have to say the facebook entry is interesting as presumably a carefully prepared final statement [final? I'm guessing that Mrs. Edwards might well have more in store for us - she previously thought that her "resilliance" was so significant that we all should read about it].
“There are certainly times when we aren’t able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. [Is this an apology? Explanation? Who is we? No as much strength and patience as she would have liked? Is that what she did wrong?] It’s called being human,” [Further explanation of her conduct? Excuse? Educating us? Defense? Of what?] “But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. [A final pat on the back for herself? Reminder of her "positive impact in the world?" Educating us?] And for that I am grateful.” [Grateful to herself for living with hope and positively impacting the world? Grateful to whom? She is wonderful and, for that, she is grateful?]
I said this earlier, but interesting that there was no reference to God.
We will soon see if Johnny attempts to us her death to aid his rehabilitation process. My guess is that even his ego and confidence in his ability to con people will not cause him to go that far, at least not for a few months.
@ Fen
"But for me and many others, they are the Bonnie and Clyde of politics. Elizabeth is a partner, a sidekick. And an accomplice."
Whoa! Let's leave MY name outta this!
I guess I know why most attorneys don't have souls. They're taught by soulless profs.
Yes, the Edwards conspired to deceive us. But, this woman is dying. Forgiveness is between her and the Lord. I forgive her and pray for her children.
C4: Fen - Basically a puerile argument that posits a President is an all seeing all knowing entity that if they only put the effort into looking at a particualar thing amongst thousands of things - their Godlike powers could have solved it.
Hardly. For example, instead of wasting time on responding to me, you might have instead noticed your kitchen is on fire.
The Presidency is not a party room. We sent Clinton there to govern America, not get his dick serviced. If he was a CEO, he would have been sacked.
Less time dedicated towards bonking the staff = more time doing the job he was elected to do.
Its that simple.
Elizabeth Edwards participated in the use of her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power. For that, she is accountable.
The Universe has a funny way of righting itself. As far as I can tell, the system worked –he imploded – it kind of all worked out in the end, didn’t it? Anyway, she may still make her amends. She has time, but I’m certainly not going to carry the weight of some resentment toward her – you’re welcome to if you’d like, but I don’t see the point.
I'd rather say a prayer for the 20 unknown human beings in the world who died while I wrote these 3 sentences.
A wise friend has impressed on me that prayers aren't so much for those we pray for, but for our own spiritual health.
Ann Althouse said:
"The same standards apply to all of us. If anything Elizabeth Edwards is someone with greater advantages in life than most people, and the wrongs she chose to commit count."
This is true, but now is not the time to insist on her wrongs. After she dies there will be ccasion to discuss her conduct during the campaign. Now we should sympathize with and pity a fellow human being suffering what we'll all suffer in time.
wv: amench Be a mensch!
I said this earlier, but interesting that there was no reference to God.
FLS, I can't recall the details, but wasn't there a story a couple years back about Wade's death profoundly affecting Elizabeth's conception of and/or belief in/about God? Profound illness and other things can provoke/exacerbate issues of faith, too. This might be one reason there's no reference to God. Or maybe she thinks such talk is/should be private.
---
As to larger discussion: time and place, time and place, time and place. And may God have mercy on all our souls.
-------
AllenS said...
"Blue dresses don't get pregnant."
True, but if the administrator knows what he's doing, he can make forum threads sticky.
ndspinelli said...
" I forgive her and pray for her children."
You forgive her for what?
I have a news article reporting on President Clinton atending a memorial service for the Cole. It was in October 2000 and he said blah blah blah and we won't stop until we find who did it. But in retrospect, we now know he was full of shit. In his last days in office, he and aides like Eric Holder were busy pardoning thieves like Marc Rich.
So Fen is correct when he says Clinton did not do his job.
Reader Jam,
Nice comment.
I have been sucked into this thread about Elizabeth Edwards because it is so interesting, even though I don't think it is a time to judge her or demand/expect anything from her.
On the other hand, since she has chosen to write words for all of us to read, I think it probably is fair to assess what she has said and note what she has not said/addressed. I think the interest is also driven by the fact that she, and especially her husband in concert with her, in the past had chose to be so manipulative that it is hard to resist assessing her dying words. The absnece of God intriqued me since politicians resort to references to God so commonly and, of course, so do the dying.
On balance, and notwithstanding my very active particpatio in this thread, it probably is a comment by Ann that would have been better not posted.
Hard to knock somebody up with a cigar.
No, I mean the previous cover-up, before Billy Jeff was even a candidate, when Gennifer Flowers was his girlfriend.
My theory is that by the time Clinton met Monica he suffered from erectile dysfunction*, but he could still get off orally without the little (blue? red?) pill -- the use of which HRC could strictly monitor. But his schwantz likely was stiff enough for penetration back in 1980 when he met GF the gf. And this is why he could say he did not have sex with that woman with a straight face: only intercourse "counts."
*Consider his heart troubles, not revealed till he was out of office.
Meade,
I forgive her, and anyone for that matter; as they face death, for whatever sins they may have committed. Not being a priest, I can only forgive sins committed against myself. She was complicit in deceiving the voting public. I am a voter. I know plaintiff attorneys so I certainly wasn't shocked w/ the depravity of her husband...but I was deceived. And you know what Meade, I almost always require a person to "fess up"[using Southern vernacular] prior to forgiving. But not when someone is on their deathbed...they can fess up to God.
One of the weaknesses of many people is resentment. But, I've found over the years resentment is akin to hating a person, but taking the poison yourself. It's a flaw in many of my people[Wops]. Many suffer from Italian Alzheimers...they only remember the grudges.
Finally, you got your brides back...I can abide that.
In retrospect, I suppose one could say that Elizabeth Edwards out-Hillaried Hillary in the way she used sympathy for her situation to generate attention and enthusiasm for the no-good man she was standing by. Hillary could only allege that she was a victim of a "vast right-wing conspiracy," but EE was (and still is) portrayed by too many in the MSM as some sort of saint for backing the political ambitious of her sleazy spouse while battling terminal cancer.
I forgive her, and anyone for that matter; as they face death, for whatever sins they may have committed. Not being a priest, I can only forgive sins committed against myself.
I require contrition before I forgive.
In August 2008, Mr. Edwards admitted that he had an affair in 2006 but denied that he was the father of the woman's baby, who was born the month after he dropped out of the campaign. In her own posting on the Internet — an extraordinary move by a wife in the moment of her husband’s public shame — Mrs. Edwards made clear that she had helped try to keep the affair private. After he told her about it, she wrote, “we began a long and painful process in 2006, a process oddly made somewhat easier with my diagnosis in March of 2007.”
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/e/elizabeth_edwards/index.html?inline=nyt-per
ndspinelli,
Thanks. I'll leave forgiveness of sins up to Jesus. You're free to judge me as someone who holds a grudge but I know I don't carry resentment toward Elizabeth Edwards or anyone else. Neither does my bride (who obviously doesn't need me to defend her here on her own blog).
I think it can be an unkindness to forgive too soon and short-circuit a process of reflection, apology, and acceptance that can create true healing for all parties involved, the hurters and those who've been hurt.
Elizabeth Edwards didn't die soon enough for her husband's political and sexual ambitions to be realized. Tough luck. Now, although time is running out, she can still reflect on her actions and, on Facebook, apologize for what she did wrong to the voters. Who am I to deny her the opportunity?
Good God.
Meade,
Reasonable people can disagree.
In a perfect world, Ms. Edwards will use her last days to show contrition. However, I made a good living seeking truth because this world is far from perfect. Meade, I dealt w/ a lot of death, lies and sadness in my career. For a long time it hardened me. I'm one of the people who has to focus on not drinking the poison. I'm getting better @ it, but still have miles to go.
"...but EE was (and still is) portrayed by too many in the MSM as some sort of saint for backing the political ambitious of her sleazy spouse while battling terminal cancer."
That may be how you look at it, but I'm not so sure that is what happened. I believe that the media was sympathetic to a woman who at least appeared to be responding with grace to a situation that most would find nightmarish, as it played out with great public fanfare.
Now, about Elizabeth herself. While many here believe that she lied and manipulated for reasons of potential future power, it is equally as plausible that she honestly believed her husband, for all his faults, was still the best candidate for President. In this scenario, she would have done what she did for what she believed was "a greater good".
Breaking news: Elizabeth Edwards has died, according to a family friend.
I never pray for the dead...they're w/ God. My prayers are for the family and friends.
she just died. i have the story over at patterico's pontifications.
FOX confrims that Elizabeth Edwards has died.
The Wellstone funeral pep-rally where the Dems booed Republicans as they entered the room.
The Corretta Scott King funeral where Dems took cheap shots at Bush, who was only there to honor King.
The death of Ted Kennedy leveraged to pass Obamacare.
Clock is ticking. How long before the Democrats use Elizabeth's corpse as a political prop?
I'm betting within 24 hours, before she is even cold.
HKatz said...
She's not a saint, and she's not satan personified either. She's a human being, with some good traits and some deep flaws, and she's dying. I hope she finds peace at the end of the road and that her kids have strength and support through their loss.
Why must we set aside our distaste for people who are, at the least distasteful because they are afflicted with an illness that leads to their death? If you reviled them in life, why must a terminal disease suspend that revulsion in death? Does she deserve sympathy? Maybe, but not from me? She's an adult, she knows what she was complicit in. She knows the activities she engaged in with her husband to secure money, power, influence, and at the time the presidential nomination. She was more than complicit in getting his trusty aid to take the heat for her husbands love child with a new age quack documentarian that followed him around like a lost puppy. And we are asked out of some concocted human virtue to set aside our passions against what she and her husband stood for (The Two America's) because she has cancer? Really?
These people came very close to running this country. Look at the unintended consequences of what we are dealing with now for leadership. No way, I'm suspending my disgust for people like this and people like her. They deserve everything they get in this life and the next.
May she rest in peace.
She did not apologize to us for participating in the deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, which skewed the 2008 Democratic primaries.
You should be disgusted with yourself for saying this. Did it ever occur to you that she held out hope for her marriage?
I still just don't get the animus here. If Hillary had Elizabeth's stones, she would have walked out on Bill after the semen-stained dress came to light. Elizabeth stood by her man only till he publicly rubbed her nose in his infidelity -- Bill had rubbed Hillary's nose in it again and again. Hillary gained a political future from standing by her man -- Elizabeth had only a gravestone to look forward to.
Should Cindy McCain have ratted out John for boffing Vicki Iseman? If he had, I mean to say. When does a wife's duty of disclosure to the American people outweigh her duty of loyalty to her husband?
"When does a wife's duty of disclosure to the American people outweigh her duty of loyalty to her husband?"
Yeah, I guess this is what I don't understand about Ann's beef with EE. Was she supposed to disclose the affair to the American public herself? So she stuck with him. It was her business to do so. So what? Maybe she actually did love her husband and was humiliated by his infidelity.
"After he told her about it, she wrote, “we began a long and painful process in 2006, a process oddly made somewhat easier with my diagnosis in March of 2007.”
All this tells me is that a diagnosis of cancer suddenly put things in perspective for her and that an affair paled in comparison to the news that she was ill. And that's totally understandable.
RIP, Elizabeth Edwards.
"When does a wife's duty of disclosure to the American people outweigh her duty of loyalty to her husband?"
One time would be when the husband is in a position to become Commander in Chief and is hiding secrets that could easily lead to personal blackmail. Also, no spouse has a "duty" to lie and deceive others for the sake of the other spouse's personal and professional ambitions.
Brooklyn Girl said...
You should be disgusted with yourself for saying this. Did it ever occur to you that she held out hope for her marriage?
And that has to do with what exactly? She knew her husbands foibles and in the face of that reality went out of her way to directly obfuscate the truth. You should be disgusted with that.
Must admit that I am almost amused at the blame laying at Elizabeth Edwards' feet for what didn't happen.
Rush and company who saw to it that John McCain would not be elected, have never been held to account for what DID happen.
Tennessee Lawbrarian said...
"When does a wife's duty of disclosure to the American people outweigh her duty of loyalty to her husband?"
Yeah, I guess this is what I don't understand about Ann's beef with EE. Was she supposed to disclose the affair to the American public herself?
You mean before or after he disclosed to her that he had a baby with the nutcase and then helped him concoct a plan to push that blame onto his personal assistant and his wife. I have no issue with people like you who gnash their teeth at the seeming injustice that Ann is heaping on the late Mrs. Edwards, but please, please, please don't neglect the full measure of the truth in what this woman has done and was capable of for the sake of personal gain and political expediency. That is an insult and injustice to rational thinking people.
I guess she figured if she could live with it (the affair) then others not part of her inner circle of friends could deal with it too. I do realize that people think she owes them something beuase her husband was running for president, but what does she owe? Absolute truth? A mea culpa on her death bed to all the nameless voters who didn't even vote for John edwards? Let her die in peace.
Methadras wrote:
You mean before or after he disclosed to her that he had a baby with the nutcase and then helped him concoct a plan to push that blame onto his personal assistant and his wife.
No, pushing the blame is when you describe Monica Lewinsky as a stalker rather than own up to what you do. What Edwards TRIED to do was deflect the story onto someone else, so there would be no controversy. And, I might add, on poeple willing to take the responsibilty for money.
Not saying what he did was right, only he's not trying to make this other guy suffer for his sins. Noone cares if this other guy has a baby with Edward's mistress. So there would be no actual sin (in the eyes of the media).
He was a fool to think he could get away with it, but then again, haven't many presidents been found to have pecadillos? The media hid that FDR was essentially a cripple, the media hid JFK's indiscretions, and we've all heard about Jefferson's black love child.
Exactly how did anyone prevent Elizabeth Edwards from dying in peace?
What's with all the sanctimonious posturing around here?
Penny wrote:
While many here believe that she lied and manipulated for reasons of potential future power, it is equally as plausible that she honestly believed her husband, for all his faults, was still the best candidate for President. In this scenario, she would have done what she did for what she believed was "a greater good".
Or additionally believed that, despite him having a child with another woman, that on some level there was still some love to be saved in the marriage that she could look past the betrayal. A lot of people have dealt with stuff like this in their marriages, and they get past it and continue to stay married (and many don't). Not too many peoples husbands are this close to getting to the white house.
Meade wrote:
Exactly how did anyone prevent Elizabeth Edwards from dying in peace?
What's with all the sanctimonious posturing around here?
Noone prevented her from dying in peace. Yet Ann with this quote:
"She did not apologize to us for participating in the deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, which skewed the 2008 Democratic primaries."
seems to think that Edwards SHOULD have, on her dying death bed somehow made a mea culpa to the american people for the wrong she did or something. Why does Ann think she, or any of us is owed that? Just because we read about the Edwards life in the Enquirer doens't mean that they owe us anything or that she should take time away from dying to ameliorate our dissapointment about some dumb affair.
I suppose someone could also be disappointed that Bob Dylan doesn't do Lay Lady Lay just the way someone likes, or Steve Martin talks about art, but so what? THey don't owe you. And in those cases you're paying your money to see them perform. Here, we're voyeuristically gazing into someone's final moments and then wanting them to die the way we want.And I don't even like John Edwards.
Hope you get the same compassion you show when you croak,bitch
Meade,
I want to like you but, you're looking more and more like an errand boy. Attorneys love errand boys. Then they grow tired.
What's with all the sanctimonious posturing around here?
One man's "sanctimonious posturing" is another man's "basic human decency".
Blake,
Great response. Dignity is in short supply in some circles.
Dignity is in short supply in some circles.
No, its just that some people don't deserve it. If you actually knew her, you would agree.
ndspinelli said...
Blake,
Great response. Dignity is in short supply in some circles.
Dignity is like respect. You earn it. It's not some automatic attribute that manifests at the time you learn your dying with a terminal illness. As I said before, how does her having cancer and now dying absolve her of her complicity in undertaking a fraudulent endeavor?
Fen, Meth--
I'm not inclined to post at all, here, but I will say this:
The dignity in question is not Elizabeth Edward's.
jr565 said...
No, pushing the blame is when you describe Monica Lewinsky as a stalker rather than own up to what you do. What Edwards TRIED to do was deflect the story onto someone else, so there would be no controversy. And, I might add, on poeple willing to take the responsibilty for money.
Not saying what he did was right, only he's not trying to make this other guy suffer for his sins. Noone cares if this other guy has a baby with Edward's mistress. So there would be no actual sin (in the eyes of the media).
He was a fool to think he could get away with it, but then again, haven't many presidents been found to have pecadillos? The media hid that FDR was essentially a cripple, the media hid JFK's indiscretions, and we've all heard about Jefferson's black love child.
Boy, talk about deflection and projection. Stay on topic and none of your examples are analogous to the issue at hand. Did you know that the late Mrs. Edwards tried to sue Andrew Young in claiming that he ruined her marriage? I think Ann even talked about that here once. Seems odd coming from someone who helped orchestrate a lie and not going after Reille Hunter who was the one that bedded her wedded moron.
How about when the late Mrs. Edwards threatened her staff with eliminating their benefits if she didn't get her way. There are myriads of examples of this womans personal horror show. But fine, she's dead now, go and seek the dignity in her life to make you feel better and more saintly about it all.
"What's with all the sanctimonious posturing around here?"
Ha ha It's an oft time political blog when it isn't an erstwhile cultural blog, for cripes sake.
Sanctimonious posturing is part of the "original design", to coin an old phrase.
The dignity in question is not Elizabeth Edward's.
Yah, whatever.
My point is that I'm not going to be browbeat into expressing sympathy for a woman who has already abused my sympathy once before.
My point is that I'm not going to be browbeat into expressing sympathy for a woman who has already abused my sympathy once before.
It's rather a shame that you just didn't post that particular comment in yesterday's thread and left it at that (and even reposted it in today's thread and left it at that again), but you didn't, Fen. Given that death is for the living, that's a rather unfortunate choice and, now, circumstance.
[deleted and reposted to add one inadvertently skipped word: the]
Why is it a shame?
And I think you meant "funerals are for the living".
And this was my first comment on the topic:
I have nothing good to say about her,
but I hope Wade is waiting to guide her to whatever comes next.
Thoughts and prayers for her family as they endure this.
And I think you meant "funerals are for the living".
NO! I meant what I said. I'm familiar, of course, with that phrase and I even agree with it. But I wrote precisely what I intended to write.
Why is it a shame?
Because you needlessly belabored stale points about a person imminently gone from world, already rendered irrelevant by events and--if one looks at it objectively--who really wielded very little power over events writ large. You wouldn't let it go, Fen. You needed, for whatever reason, to take a sledgehammer to the ha'penny nail of your point, and, from what I can tell, without real provocation in-thread.
Please note, Fen: You asked me; therefore, I answered.
And this was my first comment on the topic:
Indeed it was!
So, what up re: the thereafter?
There are 127 comments on one post and 172 on the other regarding Ms Edwards life and death, and Fen is singled out as the one who is supposed to feel ashamed for needlessly belaboring stale points and taking a sledgehammer to the ha'penny nail?
I found his beginning and ending comment to be a fitting bookend for the thread, an appropriate and sincere expression of his personal opinion and expressed hope.
MamaM:
See the Fen-asked-me-and-therefore-I-answered-part.
You are using "is singled out" in a very odd way, given the open exchange between Fen and me, there for all to read. No need to be so disembodied about it.
Do you need make it less specific, more generalized, for some reason?
Hmmm. I wonder.
Also, I've been following Fen's comments here for years, including those years when I commented more frequently and when many here now (or at least, many handles here, now) weren't here. His posts do catch my eye more than that of others, I do think (rightly or wrongly, correctly or falsely) as a real entity somewhere, and he is among the commenters in whose evolution
over time I am more interested in/concerned with[/sometimes about] than that of others.** How human is that? In any case, here you have it, out and open and all that jazz.
---
**(He's not the only one I view in that way, of course.)
wv: cluvir
Too cute+funny.
Wondering is good. It opens the mind to new possibilities and insights. The comments I most enjoy reading, Reader_iam, are the ones which involve "I" statements of opinion rather than "you" statements of observation. To my ears, statements which begin with you tend to sound accusatory and presumptuous. Especially so when directives like "please note" and "see such and such" are added. In addition, I rarely find the mention of shame helpful for anything other than shutting down or attempting to control another person.
While I found Fen presenting his opinion in a clear manner,I was confused about the point you were trying to make. Since this is a public blog, I did not understand you to be engaged in a special or privately understood conversation. I wondered why you were focusing on him and what opinion you were attempting to communicate.
I understand and honor your interest in connecting with real and evolving entities.
Why is it a shame?
Reader: Because you needlessly belabored stale points about a person imminently gone from world, already rendered irrelevant by events and--if one looks at it objectively--who really wielded very little power over events writ large. You wouldn't let it go, Fen. You needed, for whatever reason, to take a sledgehammer to the ha'penny nail of your point, and, from what I can tell, without real provocation in-thread.
Fair enough. But we're going to have to disagree on your use of the term "needlessly". As I was prepared to let my initial [Wade waiting] comment stand alone.
I came back into the thread when Ann got pushback for noting that Elizabeth didn't apologize. And that was simply to state that, after dealing with several cancer deaths and Hospice, I know that asking for forgiveness from those you wronged is part of the "letting go" process that Hospice encourages. I agreed that Elizabeth shouldn't be *required* to apologize, but that the expectation she would (in light of Hospice) should not be deemed unreasonable or offensive.
So I think the next set of comments is what you have issue with. If people simply eulogize Elizabeth, I will be respectful. If they want to compare her to Mother Teresa, I'll just roll my eyes and keep my mouth shut. BUT, if they are going to lie about her involvement in John's scam, I'm going to correct the record. And if they think thats dancing on her grave, then they shouldn't have brought it up to begin with.
Please note, this is also in the context of past behavior by Dems re the "dignity" and "respect" for their dead: Democrats used Wellstone's corpse to boo Republicans in attendence, to turn a funeral into a divisive pep rally. Democrats used Corretta King's corpse to bash Bush while he was in the room. Democrats used Ted Kennedy's corpse to prop up Obamacare. Those actions have a cost.
So you can see why I'm jaded. And why I view this whitewashing of Elizabeth's misdeeds simply as Democrats attempting to repair Elizabeth's image so they can use her corpse to prop up yet another political cause. And these are the same people who get sancitmonious because they believe I'm disrespecting the dead.
Please note, Fen: You asked me; therefore, I answered.
No worries. You and I go back and forth alot. But when you approach me in good faith, I will try my best to treat you fairly.
Remind me of that next time I go off on you ;)
Perhaps Ann should read Matthew 7:1-3.
Floridan said...
Perhaps Ann should read Matthew 7:1-3.
I know that quite well and I have zero issue with it. I have no problems being judged by the same measure I judge everyone else with. Have at it. Do your worst. You will still fail.
Your lack of simple human compassion is disgusting. It was fine for you to be abusive and disgusting while she was alive...She was a political opponent, and even though your behaviour was often reprehensible, at least it had a motive.
She's dead. Insulting and abusing her has no purpose now, unless maybe you figured this was the only time you could ever get the last word?
Shame on you.
charles: She's dead. Insulting and abusing her has no purpose
Funny how no one can actually point to the "insulting and abusing" posts.
I've been a hospice nurse and also worked in oncology research. Dying of cancer is, in my opinion, one of the most difficult deaths. Whatever a person did in life, during their dying process, they owe nothing to anyone other than their family members, who are grieving...and this woman is leaving behind young children. Some of you here are afflicted with hearts that are two sizes too small.
I've worked both as a hospice nurse and in oncology. Dying of cancer is one of the most difficult deaths there is. She owed none of you anything, and her final statement was a lovely way to make her transition from this world to the next. Whatever you may think of her, your hate for her has no place in her death and dying (and really, someone above compared her to Bin Laden? Ridiculous). Some of you are laboring under the affliction of having hearts two sizes too small. Unlike Edwards' cancer, you have the opportunity for a cure, but I'm willing to bet most of you won't take it.
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