March 3, 2010

Sarah Palin on the new/old (Jay Leno) "Tonight Show."





(Via theblogprof via Instapundit.)

116 comments:

Fred4Pres said...

You know Andrew Sullivan will watch this and then be mean to the beagles.

Fred4Pres said...

Opus One Media, some nice snark there. You don't have beagles do you?

Opus One Media said...

Joan said...
"You can see she has absolutely no problem getting up and talking to people as opposed to pontificating, like our president."

Joan, honey, get a grip. This fool says nothing, leads nothing, is out in front of nothing and resigned her last bit of responsiblity other than to her checkbook. she is a nabob, a fool and an empty suit. Get a grip

michaele said...

My non Palin fan daughter enjoyed it...thought she seemed relaxed and comfortable.

Kim Priestap said...

I see Althouse has quite a few bitter and jealous commenters.

Kovacs said...

Wow--Don't quit your day job, Sarah! Oh, wait....

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hey hdhouse, sounds like you shat your diaper again.

Shanna said...

The bimbo who followed

Yay for sexist remarks from liberals! It must be a Palin thread. Women, know your limits.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Yay for sexist remarks from liberals!

This surprises you? Conservatives should take a cue from liberals. Its perfectly acceptable to be racist and sexist as long as you display a sufficent amount of empathy for the plight of the less capable.

MadisonMan said...

She still sounds like she is from Minnesota. But she looked very relaxed. But the problem with interviewing politicians: they can't help but start stump-speeching. I thought Shaun White was more interesting.

Jay's set is very distracting. What's with the Pottery Barn cast-off jugs in the back?

master cylinder said...

Actually Kim, Im a bitter clinger in Texas and I really hope she runs. We could start making plans for BHO's second innagural if she did. The interesting part will be watching what establishment Repubs do-will they support her or quietly try to disappear her political carreer.

Joan said...

Joan, honey, get a grip. This fool says nothing, leads nothing, is out in front of nothing and resigned her last bit of responsiblity other than to her checkbook. she is a nabob, a fool and an empty suit. Get a grip

I say she did "pretty well", you spew and spew again, and I'm the one who needs to get a grip? LOL

I'd say Palin is exactly where she wants to be. Two words: death panels. Two more: best seller.

The audience loves her. Fox News gets more eyeballs than CNN and MSNBC combined; more democrats watch Fox News than CNN and MSNBC, combined. Palin is in the processing of rehabilitating her image, and IMO she's doing a pretty good job of it.

rdkraus said...

I mostly like Palin (that does not mean I want her to be President), but I admit...I find her boring to listen to when she's doing commentary.

Paul Snively said...

MadisonMan: She still sounds like she is from Minnesota.

I thought it was well-established that that's because everyone from her region of Alaska does, and that's because a passel of Minnesotans picked up stumps and landed there a couple of generations ago? In other words, she should sound like a Minnesotan.

MadisonMan said...

That story of Shaun White's mom dry-cleaning his medal is hilarious.

spongeworthy said...

In certain circles it's quite fashionable to hate Sarah Palin. Not to be indifferent or harbor a mild disdain for her, but to hate the woman, that's the crucial signifier.

Probably more people like or are indifferent to Palin, but those are feelings best expressed sotto voce. Haters are encouraged to shout, I assume so other haters can recognize their shared superiority.

Brian said...

Palin thread. Going to 250+ comments. Just a matter of when. By lunch, perhaps?

She was relaxed, her best joke being going to Vegas to do a Tina Fey impression. In this venue, she does well because she's able to come across as regular Sarah, the mom who happened to be the V.P. nominee, rather than just a politician.

I think right now she's having too much fun at this media game.

MadisonMan said...

Paul: Yes, I know. Sounding like a Minnysoht'n is not attractive to a cheesehead.

Ask yourself: Why do all the trees in Iowa lean north?

AllenS said...

The more Palin relaxes, the more other people's anger rises.

k*thy said...

Paul, we know the history...I took it as a little tongue-in-cheek regional one-upmanship across state lines. Along the lines of casserole vs. hot-dish war.

I didn't (and probably won't) watch - not much of a Leno fan.

Triangle Man said...

Ask yourself: Why do all the trees in Iowa lean north?

Because the maples want more sunlight and the oaks ignore their pleas?

John said...

Hating Sarah Palin is a way for stupid people to feel smart. She really provides a great service to people like Opus One Media or HD House.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Shauna said: "'The bimbo who followed'
Yay for sexist remarks from liberals! It must be a Palin thread. Women, know your limits."

You beat me to it. On one hand, it's sort of funny how absurd these folks are; on the other, these liberal sexist assholes have a hell of a lot of nerve.

- Lyssa

MadisonMan said...

'Cause Minnesota sucks!! And Iowa blows!!

Cassie said...

The Whineapalooza Tour.

John said...

A married woman with however many kids and a professional career is a "bimbo". That is really disgusting. If nothing else, Palin has shown the world just what disgusting human beings most liberals are. Even the ones who don't use such crass language won't stand up to the ones who do.

k*thy said...

Don't forget the flatlanders and da-yoopers...

John said...

"The Whineapalooza Tour."

Where did she ever whine about anything? All she said was leave her kids alone. What would you say if the Atlantic hired some disgusting pervert to blog about your daughter's sexuality?

rhhardin said...

The video is a lot less cringe-making than the audio alone.

The cringe-making factor of the audio however is going to be a problem.

I think it's that she doesn't make the audience want to follow along in what she says; the video suppresses that a little, by taking over the room as TV always does. You're not actually committed to following, just to not moving.

Not following along: a cheerleader style doesn't work on most, except people who, as Imus put it, are already sitting there with their little Palin boners.

Lisa said...

It is amazing to me how nasty and hateful the left can be towards those they look down upon. That woman has been underestimated again and again. Caribou barbie indeed. Sheesh.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Actually Kim, Im a bitter clinger in Texas and I really hope she runs. We could start making plans for BHO's second innagural if she did.

I wouldn't count your chickens there sparky. At the rate Barry is going with trying to get his pet bill passed while the rest of Rome burns, Larry the Cable guy will have just as good a shot at the White House and probably do 100 times better than the current occupant.

TRO said...

She was great and the fact that she was great once again spun Palin-haters into new heights of insanity. It's just another reason to love her.

Shanna said...

Yay for sexist remarks from liberals!

This surprises you?


Not surprised at this point (although the election was sure an eye opener), but still think it needs to be pointed out.

John said...

"I think it's that she doesn't make the audience want to follow along in what she says;"

How do you know this? Did you speak the audience? Where you in the audience and got that feeling? You don't see the audience when you watch the Leno Show. On what facts could you possibly base such judgment.

It is true that she doesn't use a teleprompter. And she also doesn't give her audience cues by constantly repeating tag lines like "let me be clear" and "some say" and "false choice". So being a liberal I could see where you would have a hard time following someone speaking without using such pavlov response inducing phrases like that. But the rest of us have no problem following what she says.

Invisible Man said...

It is true that she doesn't use a teleprompter. And she also doesn't give her audience cues by constantly repeating tag lines like "let me be clear" and "some say" and "false choice".

But she does have to write basic concepts like "taxes" and "energy" to remind her what she actually believes. And she also likes to run away from her responsibilites so she can moonlight on the chicken dinner circuit.

Lisa said...

Invisible Man,

She doesn't use a teleprompter with word for word speeches like our glorious leader. Instead, she has a few words to remind her of what topics she wants to talk about and then she speaks for herself, for the moment.

Our glorious leader can't make a 5 sentence speech without his TPIC and you mock this woman for having notes that consist of all of 5 words. That is hatred and bias speaking, not rational or earned criticism.

bagoh20 said...

When you call someone a bimbo, you should consider if you could possibly accomplish or do what that bimbo has done. When you consider this, you should come to realize you are either a bimbo's fool or an arrogant ass. You should realize this, but such a person, by definition, cannot.

Hoosier Daddy said...

But she does have to write basic concepts like "taxes" and "energy" to remind her what she actually believes. And she also likes to run away from her responsibilites so she can moonlight on the chicken dinner circuit.

I don't see what the problem is with her being Vice President then. The current Vice President, just admitted he doesn't have to do anything. Sounds like the perfect job!

Hoosier Daddy said...

And even with her accent, she can properly pronounce difficult words like "ask" and "corpsman".

I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that this supposed intellectual giant said corpse-man.

Twice.

Salamandyr said...

"I want to be sure I hit these points in my speech; let me just jot these down so I don't miss them."

Is that really so hard to understand? A to do list is an indication that a person is stupid? Really?

exhelodrvr1 said...

"And she also likes to run away from her responsibilites so she can moonlight on the chicken dinner circuit."

Yeah. Thank God none of our other politicians do anything like campaigning full-time for one office while ostensibly serving in another office.

bagoh20 said...

Choosing to prevent the bankrupting of her family and the stalling of her state's government = running away from responsibility?

Yet, leaving your Senate position after a few months of being rarely "present" for your own grandeur is admirable?

Nice.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I recall one of the slams about Palin is that Alaska recieves a huge amount of Federal money.

Out of curiosity I did some checking and as it turns out the Federal government owns a huge amount of Alaska. About 65% to be exact.

I didn't check to see if Federal tax dollars allotted to Alaska are disproprtionate to the level of ownership in the state.

Joe said...

TriangleMan takes gold in the Brilliant Non Sequitor category.



Yeah but how often do you get to throw in the lyrics to a Rush song into a post?

WV: Bugarin...the first Cockroach into space?

Michael said...

I would expect that poor dumb Sarah would also know the difference between auto liability and collision insurance. Unlike our smartest ever president. HA.

edutcher said...

Considering how brilliant our Lefties consider themselves, it's astounding how they (and the rocket scientists at Kos and Puffington who tell them what to write) can't come up with one original idea after the woman's been on the national stage for a year and a half.

MadisonMan said...

She still sounds like she is from Minnesota.

So was Hubert Humphrey, but he wouldn't have gone for ZeroCare, would he?

Oberon said...

As for this unending narrative of "bimbo" or, more generally, "dumb politician", I have a couple of points: First, no one who is serious actually believes Ms. Palin is a bimbo, or that President Bush is an idiot, for that matter. Both would very likely be engaging in person. But I would also submit that no one who is serious in their analysis thinks of either of these people as being truly intelligent. That's fine; our leaders need not be all brainiacs. But the more general point is that there's smart, and then there is world-leader smart. Over on Uproxx, there's a nice little article on "Hollywood Ugly." That's a nice analogy. Compared to Senator Clinton, Ms Palin is a bimbo. Compared to his father, George Bush is an "idiot." To pound the point home, it's similar to when we describe a professional athlete as "terrible." As in, "Jason Campbell (QB of the Redskins) is a terrible QB." Of course, he's in the top 32 people on the planet at his job, but compared to that very small group, he's terrible...

That's a point I wish more people (of all parties) would accept or, at the very least, try and understand...

John said...

"Compared to Senator Clinton, Ms Palin is a bimbo."

Since Palin got ahead by marrying a powerful politician and staying with him even though he was a philanderer of the highest order, I can see your point. Oh that is right, it was Secretary Clinton who did that. When compared to Palin, Clinton is a bimbo, if an old and homely one.

And as far as "world leader smart", name one world leader who is overly intelligent? President Cowbell? Putin? Brown? Seriously, since when have world leaders been brilliant? And even the few that really were (Hoover, Wilson, and Nixon to name three) were almost all utter failures.

Hoosier Daddy said...

But I would also submit that no one who is serious in their analysis thinks of either of these people as being truly intelligent.

I know very intelligent people who couldn't even begin to to change a tire. Give me someone with common sense over a Harvard graduate any day.

I'm sorry but when Obama doesn't even know how to pronounce corpsman and Biden thinks TV was around in the 1930s, I just tune out people who call Palin dumb.

Brian said...

Oberon said:
This is really interesting. I watched last night and saw a woman who clearly did not want to be there (note the cold handshakes with Mr. Leno and the quick departure or "move" to depart at the end of her comedy "set").

She's being a protective mother. From the interview, she noted she had kids backstage talking to Shaun White, getting his autograph. Can't leave the daughters alone with a stud like that.

bagoh20 said...

When you judge people by their actions rather than their words, intelligence becomes a completely different animal. Similarly if you carefully judge people by the validity of their stated principles rather than how they state them.

There are very intelligent, assholes, rapists, murderers and failures. Intelligence as we generally define it is the most over-rated of human qualities. Fear of looking unintelligent is one of biggest weakness of people like Obama, who judge the quality of ideas by whether or not the intelligentsia would like them. This is a moving target and in the last 100 years mostly wrong.

bondwooley said...

Time to send Palin off to Canada so that the rest of us can stop threatening to move there:

The Last Straw

(satire)

ElcubanitoKC said...

Not bad, Sarah, but "media" is a plural noun, and it is the plural of medium...not mediums. Those are the ones that see dead people...

wv: tamat (Palin-drome!!)

ElcubanitoKC said...

hdhouse, have you fed your cats this morning yet? Watered the plants? Oiled the walker?

wv: masta ("It is EYE-gor!")

MadisonMan said...

So was Hubert Humphrey

If I listen to Hubert Humphrey (Here, for example), I don't hear a Minnesota accent. Maybe in a more conversational setting, like with a talk show host, it would come out. Talking with Nixon on the tapes (here), he sounds a little more like a Minnesotan.

Oberon said...

@Hoosier: You've illustrated my point. Thank you.

@John: Try to step outside your frame of reference. This isn't a fight. You don't have to prove Palin's value v. Clinton's. This is about intelligence - the ability to analyze, synthesize, and recall data. It has nothing to do with "how they got there." The simple fact is Clinton is brilliant, whether you like her or not. That woman's brain is simply amazing - there are far too many anecdotes (including a personal one for me) but they all go something like this: someone meets her, has a 2 minute discussion, then sees her again, informally, years later, and she says "Bob from Atlanta, right? Still think NAFTA was a bad idea?"

Again, no one who is serious thinks Palin has more intelligence than Ms. Clinton. That, of course, does not mean Clinton is better suited to be a statesman than Palin. It only means she's smarter. But the larger point is - the collective "we" say XYZ is dumb but "we" know that person is not dumb, merely "dumb" by comparison. Which leads to your second point:

I could fill pages on intelligent world leaders. BO, BC, GHWB, RN, LBJ, JFK, etc... for US Presidents. Brittish PMs? Brown, Thatcher, Callaghan, Wilson, Heath, etc. We could go to the Senate - Durbin, Coburn, Feingold, etc. These people would knock your socks off. To take an example on the left, Tom Barrett, a very good man who, on a national stage, would get the Palin treatment, is running for WI governor again. And he'll get my vote. But I would call him dumb... for a statesman.

This isn't a red/blue, lib/con, dem/repub issue. It's an observation of life. And it does bother me that so few people understand it.

MadisonMan said...

And you know, it's interesting. If I listen to an LBJ speech, I don't really hear a Texas Twang, either.

Oberon said...

@Bagoh20: we can disagree as to the value of intelligence (though, without it, we couldn't have this discussion - no internet, or computers even). But that wasn't my point. The larger point is: the Left doesn't really think Palin is a bimbo. We know her IQ is above 75. But judged against others in her field, she's lacking in that department. That doesn't mean she isn't better at her job than them. It's a terrible short-handed crutch for expressing that she needs to have some other good qualities to overcome the lack of quality in this other area or we should trust someone else to lead (someone, all else being equal, more intelligent).

As for your "changing a tire" example. That's just silly. Intelligent people can change a tire, they just usually don't have to... :)

exhelodrvr1 said...

Oberon,
I wish more people would understand the difference between "intelligence" and "common sense." And I wish more people give credit to those who have the ability to "read" other people, rather than just spout out ideas. And give credit when someone in a leadership position has the capability to, and willingness, to actually make a decision, rather than try and push it off on others.

Shanna said...

Compared to Senator Clinton, Ms Palin is a bimbo. Compared to his father, George Bush is an "idiot."

But Bimbo has quite different connotations than idiot and it's the fact that the left goes to THAT place immediately for a woman that is the problem.

John said...

Oberon,

I have delt with generals and cabinet members. And they are all over the map. Some are very brilliant in person. And others have been downright dense. As people have pointed out above "intelligence" as we call it is really a pretty amorphous term. Very few of our Presidents have been outstandingly intelligent. In the 20th Century, Wilson, Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon and Clinton would fit the description. None of the others would. And of those brilliant Presidents, only Clinton and Eisenhower were successful by any measure.

Pure intellectual vigor is not really the most important job requirement to be President or be in any leadership position. What is more important is a sense of self and to be in possession of the right ideas. An average person who is right, will beat a genius who is wrong every time. And right or wrong, if you don't have the charm and the charisma to connect with people, you are not going to get anything done as President anyway.

And as far as Palin's intelligence goes, the proof is in her success. It takes more than average intelligence and guile to get to a position where she is. If it is so easy, why aren't liberals doing what she is doing?

jeff said...

"Compared to Senator Clinton, Ms Palin is a bimbo. Compared to his father, George Bush is an "idiot.""

Why accept something that is factually untrue. Taking the first one, one of those women achieved political success entirely due to who she married. The other one gained elected office on her own. Which one is the bimbo again?

bagoh20 said...

Here's the problem I have with intelligence: I know a good number of people who are very strong in the recall and data analysis way and who just kill on intelligence tests, BUT they make disastrous decisions regardless, often ruining their lives or those around them. An example is Bill Clinton who nearly everyone considers more intelligent than G.W. Bush, but the Monica Lewinsky thing was incredibly stupid and and Bush would never do it. That's a relatively harmless example, but makes my point, because the ramifications to Clinton were enormous and shows that logic and intelligence did nothing to help him. Such a weakness can easily win in very dire decisions as well.

This is why intelligence is so useless as a measure of a person. It's like a large caliber gun, it is certainly more powerful, but where it's aimed is what counts. A small one pointed in the right direction is much more desirable.

John said...

"Intelligent people can change a tire, they just usually don't have to... :"

Lots of truly scary smart people lack the ability to do simple things. I would suggest you do some reading on Murry Gell-Man and Bertrand Russell to name two.

Michael McNeil said...

Not bad, Sarah, but “media” is a plural noun, and it is the plural of medium… not mediums. Those are the ones that see dead people…

“Mediums” is a recognized plural for “medium” — and not just for “the ones that see dead people.”

John said...

"Compared to Senator Clinton, Ms Palin is a bimbo. Compared to his father, George Bush is an "idiot.""

Shorter Oberon "People I like are brilliant. People I don't like are bimbos and idiots".

MadisonMan said...

“Mediums” is a recognized plural for “medium”

Recognized by people who say stadiums.

bagoh20 said...

Another failing of what we call intelligence is that simple ideas regardless of their validity are less desirable to those who are convinced they are intelligent. This is a bias away from logic and it is an irresistible, self-gratifying exercise. It reminds me of the stereotype of men who refuse to ask for directions. Pride and ego eliminates the easy, direct solution.

bagoh20 said...

I'm not arguing that intelligence is a bad thing itself, just that it usually comes with a lot of dumbing-down baggage, and modern liberal arts education is in the luggage business.

Joe said...

Come on People, it's past noon, for me, and we haven't broken 100 posts!

Oberon, if I'm trying to make a non-partisan point, I generally try to avoid emotionally laden pejoratives like "Bimbo."

Also IS Bush '43 an idiot as compared to his father? Gee, Bush 43 got RE-ELECTED, something that Bush '41 failed to do. Though how re-election is proof or not of brains or idiocy is beyond me. I guess I'd ask, by what criteria do you judge G H W Bush smarter than George W. Bush?

Finally when I'm making "non-partisan" remarks, I generally try to spread my examples out over both parties and several philosophies, rather than using words like "bimbo" and "idiot" and then assigning them to one set of examples alone.

Oberon said...

@Shanna: Good point. The Collins English Dictionary defines "bimbo" as an attractive but empty-headed young woman. Technically, the only problem there is the term "young." On the other hand, I see your point - bimbo is often used to mean someone only concerned with looks/money, etc. So, again, good point. Bimbo is a bad choice.

@John: Again, and this seems to be the main mental block with anyone I discuss this with, even though I repeat it over and over - no one is saying or even meaning to imply that someone of Ms. Palin's intelligence CAN'T do the job. Pointing it out is akin to pointing out Mr. Clinton's moral flaws: his affairs are a big negative bc if he betrayed his wife, regularly, how can "we" trust him? It was a valid point. But so many of his other good qualities (intelligence, persuasive demeanor, his ability to DOMINATE a room) outweighed it and made him a very capable leader. That could* be the case with Ms. Palin

*I don't believe so, but it is, of course, debatable.

As for Ms. Palin's success, I fail to see it. She's been a mayor and failed to fulfill her duties as the Governor of one of the least populated states in the Union. Yes, she was picked to be a VP candidate, but she failed to help Mr. McCain and *may* have cost him the election. So, again, where is her statesman success?

@Jeff: It's meaningless to respond, I think, but I'll try one time - Ms. Clinton's brain is a force of nature. You won't find anyone who has met her to disagree with that. You'll find a number of people who dismiss Ms. Palin's intelligence (there was a quote by a big Repub last week-ish saying, in essence, she isn't the future of the party b/c we need to get back to people with some intellectual curiosity). As noted above, "bimbo" was a poor choice of words. Someone else used it and I lazily continued it. What I meant was "dumb." (though, again, just "dumb" compared to others in her group).

@bagoh20: You're larger point there is well-taken. But the example is not very good - Clinton's intelligence (and charisma, etc) is what saved him and got him "there" in the first place. If Clinton didn't have that intellect, he's not even in a position to be hurt by the decision his penis made. As for Mr. Bush, the man made plenty of poor choices in life (he's admitted as much) as we all have. Without even getting into political decisions, we could just rattle off alcohol, drugs, and wasting much of his youth. But he, too, has an amazing ability to connect with people - he convinced half the country that he was a true Texan, even though he's a New England prep school silver spoon kid who didn't grow up until he was 40... Anyway, yes, again, intelligence is but one color of the rainbow (wow, that was bad)....

Hoosier Daddy said...

From the interview, she noted she had kids backstage talking to Shaun White, getting his autograph. Can't leave the daughters alone with a stud like that.

Personally I wouldn't have worried. First time I saw him (keep in mind I had no idea who he was) my first reaction was "that is one butt ugly chick."

Suffice it to say I was a bit shocked to find out she is a he.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Yes, she was picked to be a VP candidate, but she failed to help Mr. McCain and *may* have cost him the election

Oh for the love of God. Jesus H. Christ couldn't have helped McCain win the election. Hell no one was even going to a McCain rally until Palin got on the ticket.

Reality check: McCain lost it for McCain. If Palin did anything for McCain it was probably preventing a landslide.

John said...

"As for Ms. Palin's success, I fail to see it. She's been a mayor and failed to fulfill her duties as the Governor of one of the least populated states in the Union. Yes, she was picked to be a VP candidate, but she failed to help Mr. McCain and *may* have cost him the election. So, again, where is her statesman success?"

What had Obmaa done before being President? Failed community organizer, adjunct professor, protege of Bill Ayers at the Annenberg challenge, and back bencher senator.

He also managed to attract a huge following and connect with large numbers of people. Palin has done the same. She has managed to exert a lot of influence on the national scene. Whereever she goes she brings huge crowds and big donations to whomever candidate she endorses. That is by any measure a tremendous success.

I do no take what you are saying seriously because you try come across as reasonable, but by coincidence all the people you think are brilliant just happen to be liberal and all the people you think are "bimbos" (which is a disgusting word that no serious person should use) just happen to be conservatives. Sorry, but I know "Go Blue Team" when I see it. And that is all you are doing.

Michael McNeil said...

Recognized by people who say stadiums.

Recognized by people who speak English. As with “mediums” there's nothing wrong with “stadiums“ — indeed, it sounds much more natural to my ears than “stadia” — unless one is talking about the ancient Greek unit of distance. Really, this nose in the air contempt many liberals and supposed intellectuals affect against those who speak a (slightly) different dialect of American English is a wonder to behold — but is extraordinarily stoopid (especially among those too lazy to check a dictionary to see if what they think is a tenet of the language really is so).

CAESAR (recovering his self-possession): Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.
George Bernard Shaw, Caesar_and_Cleopatra

Joe said...

Ms. Clinton's brain is a force of nature.

Oh yeah a force of nature...why just this week this marvelous force of nature just decided that Argentina=United Kingdom in the dispute over the Falklands....Uh, how many troops ahs Argentina contributed to Afghanistan? And did Argentina take Basra or Britain?

But have it your way, she's a force of nature....

Oberon said...

Last one, then I have a brief to write.

@John: Are we talking about Gell-man and Russell, or are we talking about fully functioning adults? Just curious.

Also, you've clearly missed my Barrett example, someone I'd call "dumb" in the same way I'd call Palin and Bush "dumb", but someone that I voted for and can't wait to vote for again.

@Joe: I've just said this, but "bimbo" was a bad choice as a descriptor of a simple lack of intelligence, but it wasn't my word, and I lazily used it to continue the discussion that, again, simply was meant to say "we" use these terms relative to others in their field, not as an absolute definition.

Again, I'll reference the Barrett example (WI Gov. Candidate) as "spreading" it over different parties. Not sure I can add any philosophies, though. I could add a few more examples - Tony Blair is an idiot (again, by comparison) but I liked a lot of what he did, Ronny Reagan? Sure, he did a lot of good. (this is just off the top of my head, but I could go on if time was allotted).

As for HW v. W: There's a plethora of evidence on W's lack of intelligence, including personal experience with the man. HW - Aside from the fact that the director of the CIA really can't be dumb, the man was legendary at school, wrote very well (check out his earlier work), and was often dismissed early on for being too "wonk-ish" (which, in my experience, usually means he's too smart and not charismatic enough).

Though completely unrelated, HW lost that election (probably) because of Perot. W. (probably) didn't actually win his first election (president). Again, it means nothing to this discussion, but I feel it was worth mentioning...

Have a great day everyone, and thanks for the fun!

Joe said...

BTW, "bimbo" has also the meaning of a womon who is desperate to achieve the approval of men....finding that her success is measured not by her accomplishments, but rather by the accomplishments of the man she has attached herself to. From that follows the promiscuity and the vanity...after all the bimbo realizes that the only thing she has to offer is looks and her ability to please in bed.

Now after her election to the US Senate Ms Clinton now has accomplishments of her own, but prior to, her accomplishments were based upon the man she married, and she clung to him even thru the humiliation(s).

Of the two womyn cited, I'd say Ms. Clinton, whose brain is a force of nature, bears a closer resemblance to a "bimbo" than does Sarah Palin.

Joe said...

As for HW v. W: There's a plethora of evidence on W's lack of intelligence, including personal experience with the man. please whip that "plethora" out....his grades were better than AlGore's and better than John Kerry, who I understand served in Vietnam. But please I await that evidence....

Hoosier Daddy said...

Oh yeah a force of nature...why just this week this marvelous force of nature just decided that Argentina=United Kingdom in the dispute over the Falklands....

I spilled my morning coffee when I read that today. Absolutely utterly frackin clueless.

Yeah lets raise Argentina to the same stature as our most steadfast ally of the last 3/4 century. Well done Mrs. Brainiac.

Oberon said...

John, you sucked me back in - Seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY?!?! My list of intelligent statemen included, I bet, half conservatives. When I worked on the Hill, there was no difference (by percentage) of "dumb" reps (most Senators are very intelligent, with a few exceptions) by party. The only two that I keep coming back to are Palin and Bush. And for Dems, I've now mentioned Barrett 783849 times. My goodness.

As for bringing up Obama... Great. But what relevance does that have to the discussion? I didn't argue that he had any achievements. Nothing I wrote implied that. Please, step outside your frame of reference, especially when discussing something as innocuous as the usage of terms to describe people, so you can use your talents to add, rather than distract, from the conversation.

MadisonMan said...

Reality check: McCain lost it for McCain. If Palin did anything for McCain it was probably preventing a landslide.

Debating who lost it for McCain is somewhat futile, but I do recall someone posting here last year sometime tracking numbers for McCain's campaign in general and Palin's numbers in particular, and the drop in Palin's numbers lead the drop in McCain's.

I will accept the argument that by choosing Palin, McCain lost it for McCain and is therefore ultimately at fault. I think in general that a Presidential Campaign is not served by a VP candidate who is more telegenic than the Presidential candidate. I said as much back in 2008.

Opus One Media said...

John said...
Hating Sarah Palin is a way for stupid people to feel smart. She really provides a great service to people like Opus One Media or HD House."

Well its true that she provides a great service but she provides that service, it appears, without half trying...just Sarah bein' Sarah ya'betcha. I, at the end of the day, remain me. She, at the end of the day remains a brainless bimbo.

Hoosier Daddy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joe said...

I, at the end of the day, remain me. She, at the end of the day remains a brainless bimbo.

So how does it feel to be out-earned, out-respected by a brainless bimbo, who will be remembered for years, whilst YOU, remain an anonymous little voice at Althouse?

Opus One Media said...

Lisa said...
It is amazing to me how nasty and hateful the left can be towards those they look down upon. That woman has been underestimated again and again. Caribou barbie indeed. Sheesh."

I don't think you can ever loose underestimating Sarah - i mean there really isn't lower limit there...she is even less than you can imagine. and yes indeed caribou barbie...ya'betcha.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I will accept the argument that by choosing Palin, McCain lost it for McCain and is therefore ultimately at fault.

Wouldn't that only work if McCain was leading in the polls at anytime?

I think in general that a Presidential Campaign is not served by a VP candidate who is more telegenic than the Presidential candidate.

Fair enough which explains why a blithering idiot like Biden could be VP.

Joe said...

W. (probably) didn't actually win his first election (president). Again, it means nothing to this discussion, but I feel it was worth mentioning...


Well actually he DID...at no point were there ever more ballots for AlGore than Dubya....now had the vote balance swung back and forth between the two candidates over a period of days after the election, then yes, your statement might have validity. But it never happened....Instead, AlGore always had fewer votes than Dubya, thereby suggesting, but not proving, that YES Bush DID win his first election.

I might further point out that the NYT and the newspaper combine that conducted their own recount, found that, again, YES, Dubya did get more votes than AlGore.

But by all means continue with this dispassionate non-partisan discussion.

Joe said...

OPM, you are making the same mistake you guyz made with Booosh...."s/he's stoopit...." Well Ok then, how's it feel to lose to MO-ron? And if Palin becomes POTUS, how will it feel to be less than a MO-Ron? Just askin' or "Axe'n" if you will

AllenS said...

Not only is Hillary Clinton the smartest woman in the world, she is also unmatched when it comes to dodging sniper fire running across runways at airports. I know that happened because she said so.

Joe said...

AND is Sarah Palin named after a famous mountain explorer, like Sir Edmund HILLARY....I thought not.

Wingnutz, you betcha....

Mikio said...

Wow--Don't quit your day job, Sarah! Oh, wait....

Hilarious!!

Seriously though, it was a funny routine to Palin supporters (in a bittersweet way, of course, because they'd much rather the roles were reversed with her in the WH and Obama as the out-of-work politician doing late night talk show shtick -- but, too bad! hahaha So solly! haha) which is a good thing because they need to be humored and take a break from their angry teabagging.

Freder Frederson said...

In the 20th Century, Wilson, Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon and Clinton would fit the description. None of the others would.

I think you forgot Taft.

Freder Frederson said...

It is amazing to me how nasty and hateful the left can be towards those they look down upon. That woman has been underestimated again and again. Caribou barbie indeed. Sheesh

My God, and this comment from people who regularly call the president of the U.S. "Bambi"! And who, two years ago called me a traitor for criticizing the president.

Pot, meet kettle.

edutcher said...

The difference between sense and smart is interesting, but the way John put it, "People I like are brilliant. People I don't like are bimbos and idiots." is how the Lefties Aliskyize the enemy.

John said...
...

Very few of our Presidents have been outstandingly intelligent. In the 20th Century, Wilson, Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon and Clinton would fit the description.

If we're talking intellect, Barry and Willie get a pass since they went to Ivy League schools - although evidence of intelligence in either's life's work is slim and sense in Willie is non-existent. Dubya, although he went to undergrad and grad in the Ivy League, is an idiot because he's not a Lefty.

As for Ike, MacArthur or Marshall were light years ahead of him, but he was amenable to the press, which is how people are conned into who is smart and who isn't. I don't know about Nixon or Hoover (FDR appropriated and repackaged many of his policies and didn't do much better) in terms of intellect (I'd say TR was smarter), but Woody was so in love with his own ego (like Barry and Willie), that his intellect didn't save him in the end.

When it comes to getting things done post WWII, The man who gets the gold star is LBJ (Great Society, War on Poverty, Civil Rights, Voting Rights), whether you liked, or considered successful, his work. Second would be Reagan.

Willie gets credit for welfare reform and budget balancing only because he signed the bills; Gingrich shoved them down his throat with the ability to override any vetoes he might cast. Barry only has Porkulus and Clunkers to his name.

Opus One Media said...

I don't think you can ever loose underestimating Sarah - i mean there really isn't lower limit there...she is even less than you can imagine. and yes indeed caribou barbie...ya'betcha.

Yes, anyone who goes from housewife to VP nominee is a real looser.

bagoh20 said...

Oberon, It sounds like you are not really being nonpartisan. You seem to define intelligent as a liberal that makes a good impression in person.

If intelligence is, as I define it, the level of ability to adapt to and overcome your environment and situation to accomplish your goals through correct decision making, then someone like Palin has demonstrated more intelligence than Hillary. Hillary has overcome little rising upon her husband's success while Palin had to slay a lot of obstacles to get to be a Govenor.

BTW, Clinton used his mind, not his penis to decide to have a go with Monica. That was stupid no matter what and diminishes his intelligence in my mind, or at least the value of the kind he has.

GW Bush overcame his youthful weakness and that to me is intelligence, both the decision to do so and the ability to do so requires strength of mind over other environment and situation.

You need to question your ideas of intelligence if the intelligent person accomplishes less (overcomes less obstacles) and the dumb one accomplishes more. In other words with both people playing the game of life with the same environment and starting situation who moves around the board and who fails, regardless of how shinny their playing piece looks doing it.

Hoosier Daddy said...

My God, and this comment from people who regularly call the president of the U.S. "Bambi"!

It's because of his doe like eyes.

And who, two years ago called me a traitor for criticizing the president.

No you get called a traitor because the only time you crawl out of your hole is to denounce the country.

Joe said...

Huzzah! Breached 100!

AllenS said...

Is Hillary still a Yankees Fan?

shana said...

Mikio said: hahaha So solly! haha

Yes, Virginia, liberals can be racist too.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Having a good memory for names and faces (which many people can cultivate if they put their minds to it) isn't at all the same thing as generalized intelligence.

Are you saying Rainman isn't smart?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Oberon, the fact that you used the word "bimbo" "lazily," as you put it, speaks volumes about how you think of women when you don't work hard enough to put on a good face for the crowds.

If a person referred to Obama as a "darkie" or similarly, would you accept this as laziness, or would you see it as evidence of their perhaps hidden racism? You need to check how your mind works when it comes to women. Sounds to me that you, like many liberals, feel like we have a place, and we'd better stay in it.

- Lyssa

Mikio said...

shana -

Look at my name. What kind of name do you think it is? Google it if you have to. Try to put it together now. You can do it! (Hint for shana: I'm Japanese.)

Joe said...

You can do it! (Hint for shana: I'm Japanese.)
and ergo you CAN'T be a racist?

I'm Yellow I can't be a racist, only white guyz can be racist....

shana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lyssalovelyredhead said...

Bagoh20 said: "If intelligence is, as I define it, the level of ability to adapt to and overcome your environment and situation to accomplish your goals through correct decision making . . "

I like your definition of intelligence, but it raises an interesting point. People don't realize that there actually is NO definition of intelligence. We all have a vaguely defined idea of what it means, but there is no agreed upon definition. We all know supposedly smart people who make terribly dumb choices.

According to experts (per my psych classes in college), the only agreed upon definition of intelligence is "what IQ tests measure." And it is widely known that IQ test measurements are only somewhat useful, despite an enormous amount of research over several decades. We simply can't pin down a consistent, universally applicable definition of intelligence.

Intelligence means whatever we want it to mean, and any discussion assigning levels of intelligence to people is as completely subjective and meaningless as a discussion of their physical attractiveness.

- Lyssa

AllenS said...

Shana,

Google garage mahal. You'll find out that he's a garage! Who knew?

shana said...

Now how would I know that, Mikio? Making assumptions about your ethnicity based on your Internet handle would be as foolish as making snap judgments about Palin's followers based on little evidence.
I bet some of your best friends are Asian, right?

Mikio said...

shana -

You made the assumption and lashed out unthinkingly. Be honest.

Joe -

I don't even know how to respond to that remark. It's a multilayered onion of stupidity. I think I'll just let it remain unpeeled in all its glory.

Joe said...

don't even know how to respond to that remark. It's a multilayered onion of stupidity. I think I'll just let it remain unpeeled in all its glory.


Go ahead and try, I understand you Asians are very smart, and very, very perceptive...It certainly seemed that way from all the Kung Fu episodes I watched. Oh I guess I shouldn't have said that, I'm white and therefore if I make mention of any supposed "characteristics" of people based on their skin colour I'm making a racist remark.

Alternatively it could be you don't want to get involved in the discussion, because in this battle of wits you might have dimly (HAH) you'd be at a disadvantage.

shana said...

No, Mikio, you be honest. You made a racist joke and you don't like being called on it.
By the way, next time you call someone a teabagger, you should provide evidence that the stick their testicles in someone else's mouth. This is the reality based community and there's no space for your faith-based reasoning.
(Professor Althouse, I apologize for being crude, but I feel if people would like to call Tea Party supporters "teabaggers," we should be explicit about what that means.)

Mikio said...

Are there any others who share Joe's cluelessness? I'll explain why his post was so intensely stupid if anyone else needs to be schooled. Otherwise, I'd rather just let him alone on display with his floundering because he's not worth the effort.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

mikiko, what assumption did shana make? You used a racist Asian stereotype; she called you on it. She didn't care what color your skin was. Where was the assumption?

Also, with Joe, why was his remark stupid. When you said that you were Japanese, you said that as if you thought that would excuse you from allegations of racism. Joe called you on it, albeit in a joking manner. How was what you said (I'm Japanese) qualitatively different from Joe's parody of you? In other words, were you not saying that you couldn't be racist (at least, against Asians) because of your ethnicity?
- Lyssa

shana said...

If we google you, AllenS, will we find out you're an S?

AllenS said...

Apparently, Mikio is a boys name. I thought you were a josan.

MadisonMan said...

Only 124 posts after 10 hours. Lame!