February 22, 2010

"You can’t be using the church just to get elected and then push the church to the side."

"If the president says he’s Christian, then in his narrative, and in his speeches and in his life, that should be displayed."

72 comments:

paul a'barge said...

Barack Obama is a Muslim.

exhelodrvr1 said...

This should come as no surprise to anyone, just like everything else about him that people wanted to believe. I don't think there is any reason to think he is Muslim, but it was clear in the campaign that he was lying about the place religion held in his life.

Rialby said...

The only thing Barack Obama worships is his own image.

"We are the ones we've been waiting for."

Ann Althouse said...

If he's a Muslim, he's a terrible Muslim.

Rialby said...

"Just a quick note about an Obama line that has drawn a lot of derision. I can see why. There's an element of messianic self-regard about the sentence." - Andrew Sullivan, 2008

Rialby said...

He's not a Muslim. His father was a Muslim apostate having picked up the mantle of Socialism by his early 20s.

Julius Ray Hoffman said...

That article smells of muckraking. Three pages and it doesn't really say anything, although it tries to create an issue where there doesn't seem to be one.

There are plenty of potential problems if he joins a congregation. So he pursues his faith in private. To me, that's entirely sensible.

He probably shouldn't have made religion into a political issue when campaigning. Perhaps he knows better now.

Did he really say "We worship an awesome God in the blue states."?? If I knew that, I probably would have voted for Bob Barr instead.

rhhardin said...

If he prays for guidance, his prayers have not been answered.

Rialby said...

I know we don't like to post the nonsense that spews forth from Sully but I have to break the informal rule for this one - back to his defense of Obama's, "We are the ones we've been waiting for":

"But I think some have missed a nuance. The phrase is actually a self-indictment as well as a self-congratulation. The point is surely that we shouldn't wait for someone else to save us, or lift us up, or fix our problems or address our fate. We are the only ones who can do this. And we're responsible for our own failure. The sentence is actually a criticism of Obama's own supporters."

Excuse me, but Sully is truly brilliant here. He takes what is clearly a self-aggrandizing statement by the most conceited Democrat to hold the office since Clinton and turns it in on itself as if he's the only one able to make dark into light. Sully has no shame.

NewHam said...

"You can’t be using the church just to get elected and then push the church to the side."

John Fucking Kerry would beg to differ. He takes the sacrament with one hand while aborting feti with the other.

And it's pretty clear that Barack Obama is cut from similar cloth. He's the kind of Christian who sits in the church of Rev. Wright for 20 years listening to condemnations of whitey.

That's his religion - Racial Grievance.

David said...

Some puffery from the article:

"The first family’s intensive, early search for a church in Washington appears to have lost steam amid concerns about the disruption security arrangements would cause local worshipers."

What crap.

This is the First Family that took over an entire movie theatre in Hawaii so they could see a film on vacation.

There has been no search, intensive or otherwise, for a church. Obama is a secular man. Worse, he is a secular elitist, with all the arrogance that entails.

When I see an ounce of humility in President Obama I might consider believing that religion was of other than political importance to him.

Matthew said...

To be fair, I think Larry Craig and Mark Foley also loudly advertized their Christian bonafides.

I'm not sticking up for Obama, because his brand of Christianity -- Black Liberation Theology -- was three lies for the price of one, but there hasn't been a politician since the dawn of time who hasn't used religion as either a prop or a weapon.

I think politics and religion should stay separated from one another, as much as that is possible.

NewHam said...

"That article smells of muckraking."

Check the byline: Ariel Sabar

chuck b. said...

"Narrative" is a synonym for story that is not also a synonym for lying.

Jane said...

It's difficult to find another Jeremiah Wright.

"Them Jews aren't going to let him talk to me. I told my baby daughter, that he'll talk to me in five years when he's a lame duck, or in eight years when he's out of office."

For 20 years this man was Obama's pastor. (I don't believe that Pastor Wright preached the real gospel during that time). People don't just suddenly make comments that have to be denounced in the Huffington Post (which Obama did do). Especially older pastors - the ones I've known tend to temper their speech over the years, and learn wisdom and the ability to speak carefully. I'm not talking about televangelists. I'm talking about real shepherds who deal with real people every day.

NewHam said...

"To be fair, I think Larry Craig and Mark Foley also loudly advertized their Christian bonafides."

The entire point of the article is that you can tell a Christian, not by what he says, but rather only by his deeds.

By his deeds it is pretty clear that Barack Obama worships Barack Obama.

And there can be only One.

YoungHegelian said...

Oh sure I believe that Obama's a practicing, believing Christian. Just like I believe that John Kennedy was a good, practicing Catholic.

Matter of fact when I was a Catholic schoolboy, the nuns taught us the JFK prayer:

"Oh Lord, give me chastity, but not yet"

Lem said...

If his God helped him get elected.. Once elected it doesn't help to be seemed to be too close to fat cats ;)

I'm sure he will make it up at reelection time, when the prayer I owe yous will be at a premium.

Lem said...

Katarina Witt still looks as sensational as her Playboy layout.

Well.. they are only showing her face on the tv.. So I cant really tell for sure, but I like to think she still does.

Peter V. Bella said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matthew said...

"The entire point of the article is that you can tell a Christian, not by what he says, but rather only by his deeds."

I wonder, then, what that says about the supposedly-Godly men who presided over the auto-da-fay, the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials? Barack Obama is no different than any other politician who have always used religion, pro- and con-, to advance their causes, simply because religion evokes such a wide range of emotions that are easily manipulated for political purposes.

Manipulated emotions make for bad politics, and are an excuse for the worst excesses.

Peter V. Bella said...

But he stated he was Muslim, remember? George Stephanopoulos had to "correct" him. He was given the benefit of the doubt. How does one make a mistake about their "Muslim faith" er, uh, em, thanks George, "my Christian faith".

All that aside, he is a progressive, which means he really is a Secular Humanist.

Peter V. Bella said...

He has that render unto Obama what is Obama's down pat.


wv:oblectin=what Obama is going to try and do for Democrat candidates.

avwh said...

"You can't be using church just to get elected and then push the church to the side."

Maybe the normal politician can't, but Obama did. 20 years in Rev. Wright's pew, and he STILL got elected POTUS. So clearly, in his case, religion didn't matter to the electorate.

Methadras said...

The only religion at this point President Barely cares about kneeling at is the altar of healthcare.

Chip, cue up the AniGIF you made of this.

Methadras said...

Rialby said...

He's not a Muslim. His father was a Muslim apostate having picked up the mantle of Socialism by his early 20s.


A lot of Muslims sympathize with the socialist/communist ideology.

Alex said...

avwh - only because McCain was so inept. I think suspending his campaign was the death blow.

Lem said...

The article is a naked suggestion to Obama to use God as a life preserver to get his sagging numbers up.

Matthew said...

Methadras: there would have been no socialism without Jesus.

If Muslims tend to have an affinity for something we might genuinely refer to as "socialism" and "Communism" it's because the exercise of violence, the aribitrary and often ruthless use of power required to implement and enforce either system is a feature of their culture going all the way back to the dawn of time.

While many Muslims recognize the maxim that "Might Makes Right", they don't necessarily always equate it with any particular political system. All msot ever know is that there's a new strongman in town this week, and his tactics will be pretty much the same as the last strongman's were, even if the speeches and banners are different.

Methadras said...

The history of the socialist/communist ideology finding a bedfellow with Islam are well documented and well connected. Obama could easily be a stealth muslim and hold onto communist/socialist beliefs. There is no question he is either. None. Anyone who would refute that Obama at his core is a Marxist Socialist is a fool and a liar. Reverend Wright certainly is a man who claims to be a christian and has no problems or issues with the socialist/communist agenda at all.

Like all good politicians, he used the imagery of the pulpit to progress his political ambitions. How did 52% of the voting public put this otherwise incompetent fraud with no practical experience of any kind in any industry, even legal, into the highest seat of the land with the overwhelming evidence of who he was as a character within Chicago politics and with the associations he keeps/kept? The evidence is clear.

OldGrouchy Doug Wright said...

Rev. Wright would be proud of Obama, if they were still talking with each other!

William said...

There's some reassurance in knowing that his affinity with the Rev Wright was mostly a function of politics and not of belief....There's the philosophical problem of whether Hitler would have been a worse monster if he only used anti-Semitism as a way of gaining power rather than if he were sincere in his bigotry......I think the appeal of both Islam and Communism in the third world is their hostility to western values and dominance.

AJ Lynch said...

In a way I give Obama some credit on this issue.

He is not a religious person - that much is obvious to me. But he gets credit from me because he refuses to stoop so low as to go through the motions and carry a Bible on Sundays like Bill Clinton did.

[this comment is what I call a twofer].

Methadras said...

Matthew said...

Methadras: there would have been no socialism without Jesus.


Rancid bullshit.

If Muslims tend to have an affinity for something we might genuinely refer to as "socialism" and "Communism" it's because the exercise of violence, the aribitrary and often ruthless use of power required to implement and enforce either system is a feature of their culture going all the way back to the dawn of time.

More rancid bullshit considering that Islam is only 1300 years old. Now if you are going to impugn Arabs as bloodthirsty people who would slice your throat at the slightest insult or shake your hand with one hand while holding a knife to plunge into your back or slice your throat with regardless of religion, then I'd say you might have a point.

While many Muslims recognize the maxim that "Might Makes Right", they don't necessarily always equate it with any particular political system.

Really? They did it with the Bolsheviks, they did it with Hitler, and now they do it with AQ.

All msot ever know is that there's a new strongman in town this week, and his tactics will be pretty much the same as the last strongman's were, even if the speeches and banners are different.

Nice reductionist pablum you set up there. So Arabs are nothing more than morons waiting for the next strongman to show up? Ugh, ignorance is bliss. You don't even understand what happens in the Arab world.

edutcher said...

Barry worships the Trinity - Marx, Lenin, and Mao, just like Willie and Hillary.

The Kennedys played the same game with the Catholic Church.

Matthew said...

"The history of the socialist/communist ideology finding a bedfellow with Islam are well documented and well connected.."

Yes, this explains Hitler the Altar Boy, and Stalin the Seminarian extremely well.

The truth is that Socialism/Communism has been all the rage in the 'smart' European universities of the last two centuries --in the 20th Century. when the 'Colonials' started attending them, people who would become the leaders of great socialist/communist movements (Ho Chi Minh, Nasser, Ghandi, Chandra Bose, Sukarno, and others) they picked up revolutionary politics with their calculus-- and it fitted perfectly, in most cases, with their often-rabid Nationalism.

Socialism/Communism were thought to be systems that would differentiate the new National Governments of newly de-colonized states from those of their former Colonial masters.

Democracy in many places, Post WWII, wouldn't have worked because those societies had never had any expereince of democratic institutions. In the Post-War heyday of Socialist People's Movements, there were, ready-made whole populations with long histories of docile coompliance, long-used to government thuggery, terror, regimentation and expropriation.

Those cultures were simply more amenable to socialism than to democracy. It had little to do, very often, with religion. But, religion was often used to further the cause, all the same.

danielle said...

you people are ridiculous. there is no record of Barack Obama ever being Muslim. He met his father only a hand full of times, and his mother was agnostic. His grandparents were Christian.

you know, one thing that you could take from his irregular church attendance is that he very likely didnt attend Rev Wright's church a lot either ... esp given that he had a long commute either to Springfield or DC for much of the past decade and a half.

Matthew said...

It's not "reductionist pablum" it's history. You can read about it, you can go see it in museums, you can travel to places all over the planet and touch it.

There is little difference between Saddam Hussein and Cyrus the Great, except a for a few thousand years and the advance of technology.

The issue is not religion; it's CULTURE.

And yes, there would be no Socialism without Jesus; the concept of "each according to his need..." is straight out of the New Testament.

Pogo said...

" the concept of "each according to his need..." is straight out of the New Testament."

A gross misunderstanding or a calculated lie, but one shared by many American priests.

exhelodrvr1 said...

danielle,
"one thing that you could take from his irregular church attendance is that he very likely didnt attend Rev Wright's church a lot either"

Then he was lying, because that's not what he said while campaigning.

Lem said...

..you people are ridiculous. there is no record of Barack Obama ever being Muslim.

As a general principle people don't go around advertising that they know how to make an improvised explosive device ;)

As a general principle.

David said...

danielle said...

"you people are ridiculous. there is no record of Barack Obama ever being Muslim."

Danielle, I'm out of work--unemployed permanently--and becoming abusive.

So I finally say (after listening quietly to you for several months now), Fuck You, Danielle. Fuck You mainly because you once again take the worst comment--probably made tongue in cheek--and get all righteous about it. So, F. U. Danielle.

There, I feel better.

Harry Reid says it isn't my fault.

miller said...

I sometimes wonder if the idiot left (no, I'm not being redundant) is the one sotto voce pushing this "He's a Muslim" crap so that the righties who do take it up look stupid.

Because it's stupid. He's not a Muslim.

Matthew said...

"A gross misunderstanding or a calculated lie, but one shared by many American priests."

So, I guess all that stuff about how the Rich should be selling their possessions and giving to the poor was just Christ spitballing?

P.S. Neither a liar, nor a priest, but I had 12 years of a Catholic School education inflicted upon me, nonetheless.

Revenant said...

You can’t be using the church just to get elected and then push the church to the side.

Why not? Politicians have been using that stunt to get elected since about five seconds after the invention of democracy.

AJ Lynch said...

Danielle:

Chicago to Springfield is maybe a 3hour drive. Are you saying Obama had an apt in Springfield and spent most Sundays in Springfield?

Revenant said...

a self-aggrandizing statement by the most conceited Democrat to hold the office since Clinton

Yeah, he's much worse than all those other Democratic Presidents we've had since Clinton. :)

Peter V. Bella said...

Um, Danielle,
He admitted attending Wright's church for many years and called him his pastor. I do beleive Wright baptized his children. He also admitted he was a Muslim- until he was "corrected" by the Golden Greek Boy.

So, which is it? Is he a self admitting Black Liberation Christian or a Muslim?

former law student said...

The quote comes from Pastor Wilfredo de Jesus, who would have been Chicago's first openly homophobic alderman last year, although luckily for Mayor Daley de Jesus hadn't lived in the ward long enough.

But de Jesus is not just anti-gay. He's also anti-abortion.

I'm still looking in the Gospels where Christ spoke out against gays and abortion.

Revenant said...

I wonder, then, what that says about the supposedly-Godly men who presided over the auto-da-fay, the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials?

"oops"?

Revenant said...

He also admitted he was a Muslim- until he was "corrected" by the Golden Greek Boy.

So on the one hand we have the possibility that he is secretly a Muslim, despite marrying a Christian, attending a Christian church for decades, raising his daughters as Christians, and displaying no Muslim beliefs or religious beheaviors.

On the other hand we have the possibility that, on one of the thousands of occasions on which he has spoken in public, he fumbled what he was saying just like everybody here has on countless occasions during our lives.

Hm. That's a really tough call.

former law student said...

Why do Protestants go to church, anyways? Few offer communion, only anglicans and orthodox believe it's a sacrament -- why not just stay home and read the Bible, the source of all knowledge?

Peter V. Bella said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Revenant said...

The quote comes from Pastor Wilfredo de Jesus, who would have been Chicago's first openly homophobic alderman last year

Which raises the question, "if Chicago's never had an openly homophobic politician, where'd those anti-gay ordinances they used to have come from?"

Let's be sensible, here. Up until around 30 years ago, "homophobic" was just another way of saying "agrees with mainstream America". It is too late to be the first openly homophobic alderman in Chicago. It is too late to be one of the first hundred!

Joan said...

Obama is not a Muslim. It is possible he attended some religion classes about Islam when he attended elementary school (not a madrassa) in Jakarta.

From all appearances, Obama's faith is one of political convenience. He is neither Muslim nor Christian. He is too smart a politician to admit to being atheist -- and just smart enough to pretend to be Christian through the election.

Joan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PatCA said...

What? Our President is a phony? Who'd have thunk it!

Kakashi said...

Not a Muslim, and apparently not a Christian. Just an actor.

AllenS said...

Obama won, he doesn't need to look appealing to people who go to church anymore. He doesn't care what law professors think. He got their vote, and that's all that mattered to him. Obama won. He's the one he's been waiting for.

WN: rhidi

Probably a Muslim word.

Mikio said...

"You can't be using the church to get elected and then push the church aside."

Why not? Is it fair that openly non-Christian Americans can't realistically become POTUS?

No, so STFU, crybabies.

LarsPorsena said...

After all, "Paris is worth a mass".

Joe said...

Why do Protestants go to church, anyways? Few offer communion, only anglicans and orthodox believe it's a sacrament -- why not just stay home and read the Bible, the source of all knowledge?

The Pot-Lucks, dude.....

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

and apparently not a Christian

Not a Christian? Next you'll be telling me he's not a pragmatist! Who would have guessed?

former law student said...

It is possible he attended some religion classes about Islam when he attended elementary school (not a madrassa) in Jakarta.

Considering that, in Jakarta, Barack went to Catholic school (St. Francis of Assisi) for two years before going to public school for one, Barack is twice as likely to be a mackerel snapper as a Muslim.

Joe said...

I suspect he's not remotely religious. He went to Wright's church because his wife liked the rhetoric and the experience.

I'm probably one of the few who believe Obama really didn't remember what Wright said because he wasn't paying attention (and probably had a hidden radio in his jacket to listen to sports games in an ear piece.)

Price Freedom said...

Obama sympathizes with communism and as such is likely an atheist. To a communist the church represents a competitor for their title of supreme provider. The communist state is more like a religion or cult than a political movement and as such it must excise any threat to their claim as the epitome of the answer to the common worker’s needs. Whereas in the pre-communist revolution the populace had traditionally looked to the church for charity in times of need now the government must control that facet of the worker’s life and cannot tolerate any entity that might diminish that power over their citizens.

Hence, when you look at what has happened historically in prior communist revolutions you see that the church was immediately and systemically neutered or outright destroyed as the provider for the populace. Similarly, in today’s stealth communist revolution in the United States the government sees private sector healthcare providers as a threat to their power. For the communist government to justify their status as “providers” for the common worker they must be the ones in control of the health care system. This power is part and parcel of a communist takeover just as the elimination of any church authority. Eliminating threats to power is central in fascist and tyrranical styles of government.

See my blog on this topic at http://www.thepriceoffreedom.us/?p=332

mariner said...

You can't be using the church just to get elected and then push the church to the side.

Spoken like a true idiot leftist.

Obama did EXACTLY that -- what is this, "can't"?

mariner said...

Althouse:
If he's a Muslim, he's a terrible Muslim.

And if he were a Christian, he'd be a terrible Christian.

He's just a despicable human being, all around.

The Crack Emcee said...

"You can't be using the church just to get elected and then push the church to the side."

It worked for Oprah,...

Revenant said...

Obama sympathizes with communism and as such is likely an atheist.

The Christian church Obama attended for decades embraces liberation theology. In case you don't know what that is, it is a branch of Christian theology sympathetic to Marxism. Jeremiah Wright, the Christian pastor Obama dedicated his book to, is a proponent of liberation theology.

The sensible belief to hold is that Obama believes in liberation theology -- not that he is secretly an atheist who attended church for decades and wrote a book inspired by his pastor's teachings as some sort of elaborate charade.

Price Freedom said...

There is a clear connection between liberation theology, Islam and communism. An excellent essay on this by Andrew Bostom titled From Communism as “The 20th Century Islam,” to “Islam as the 21st Century Communism?” at http://j.mp/c5pKZy

former law student said...

Black liberation theology liberates Christianity from its support of slavery* and racism, and rehabilitates it so black people can be Christian once more.

*Example: The Southern Baptist Convention was formed after they were kicked out of American Baptistry for finding scriptural support for slavery.