January 15, 2010

"This country is not worth dying for..."

40 quotes that Right Wing News thinks exemplify "liberalism." I'd say they illustrate a theme among today's liberals that can and should be abandoned.

101 comments:

Fred4Pres said...

Hence the reason I am a conservative. Sensibilities like these just make me shake my head in amazement.

rhhardin said...

Why stop at liberals?

Do a list of things believed by ten year olds.

John Lynch said...

Conservatives can say stupid things as well.

However, being in power usually reduces the tendency to say mind- bogglingly stupid things. I was hoping that would happen to the Democrats.

So far, not so much.

MadisonMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MadisonMan said...

(I deleted my comment because it repeated what others said)

#35 reminded me of Bush's quote about the trifecta re: 9/11, recession and Iraq. (I know, I know, Bush wasn't a Conservative)

Synova said...

Honestly, the only one that I didn't think was egregious lunacy was the quote from Bill Clinton explaining that we knew that Bin Laden wanted to hurt us but he hadn't done so yet, so the decision was made not to try to take him.

It didn't really turn out to be the right decision, but it wasn't an irrational one.

I suppose that I do believe that we do have, as a sovereign state, the right to pro-actively and preemptively protect ourselves, but I'd still prefer that we not get too enthusiastic over the notion. And that's going to mean sometimes we don't pick up someone we should have done.

The rest of the quotes... yeah... crazy lunatics. Enough so that I'm tempted to try to define them as something other than liberal.

Progressive to socialist/communist or something like that.

garage mahal said...

I noticed a surprising lack of Limbaugh insights from the Admin on the latest on Haiti. Wonder why that is.

bagoh20 said...

Although I think I've seen everyone of those quotes before, it just smacks you in the face because they are so astounding stupid and the people usually so influential.

Just for example: If you read any of the reports of the incredibly evil and widespread murders of children and families through torture and execution by the insurgents in Iraq and then read Michael Moore's praise for them, you have to imagine him some kind of retarded demon. Then I realize his ideas got such widespread dissemination and an Academy Award. And you probably sat and watched it. It's depressing.

Joe said...

Michael Walzer touched on this in his great article, "Can There be a Decent Left in America?" He felt this problem emerged from the triumph of the New Left in the 1950's and 1960's. That generation of Leftists, who would move onto dominate the Democratic (Liberal/Centre party) became enamoured of the Third World Revolutionary Movement(s). It was symbolized by the Ramparts magazine photo, “Alienation is when your country is at war and you want the other side to win.” Suddenly Che, Castro, Lamumba, and Ho Chi Minh were the good guys, not the US…and in fact, many of the bases for Old Leftism, the workers and unions were seen as “reactionary” and the “Enemy.” The construction workers weren’t misguided in their love of America, or correct to love ‘Mehrika, but needed to acknowledge its flaws ; No, they were WRONG to love America, and evillll for having done so. Suddenly wasn’t a good place that needed more social justice, but rather the source of all that was wrong with the world……and to this day that feeling seems to infect the Progressive/Liberal folk of this nation.

former law student said...

Shows how conservatives distort the trurh and omit unfavorable facts.

For example, even conservative writers like R. Cort Kirkwood thought the Iraq war was unjustifiable, in 2003:

...This War Is Wrong

But not now; not in Iraq.

We aren’t defending ourselves. This war is the logical outcome of an imperial foreign policy that not only seeks global domination, both militarily and economically, but also inextricably entangles us in the Middle East’s internecine warfare. France and the rest of the world are not angry with America because they "hate" us. They are angry because they believe we are misusing our considerable power.

Saying these things doesn’t mean those of use opposed to this war don’t wish our soldiers well, or pray for their safety. It doesn’t mean their bravery does not inspire us. It doesn’t mean we are unpatriotic cowards.

Chesterton had it right. An honest man doesn’t defend his mother when she’s drunk, and he doesn’t defend his country when it’s wrong.

And Cindy Sheehan thought the country not worth her son's death was Iraq:

My son, Spc. Casey Austin Sheehan (KIA, Sadr City, 04/04/04) enlisted in the Army to protect America and give something back to our country. He didn�t enlist to be used and misused by a reckless Commander-in-Chief who sent his troops to preemptively attack and occupy a country that was no imminent threat (or any threat) to our country. Casey was sent to die in a war that was based on the imagination of some Neo-Cons who love to fill our lives with fear.

Casey didn�t agree with the �mission�; he believed in being the courageous and honorable man that he was. He knew he had to go to this mistake of a war to support his buddies. Casey also wondered aloud many times why precious troops and resources were being diverted from the real war on terror.

Casey was told that he would be welcomed to Iraq as a liberator with chocolates and rose petals strewn in front of his unarmored Humvee. He was in Iraq for two short weeks when the Shi�ite rebel �welcome wagon� welcomed him to Baghdad with bullets and RPG�s, which took his young and beautiful life. I think my son�s helmet and Vietnam era flak jacket would have protected him better from the chocolates and flower petals.

Casey was killed after George Bush proclaimed �Mission Accomplished� on May 1, 2003. He was also killed after Saddam was captured in December of that same year. Casey was killed before the transfer of power in June of 2004 and before these elections. Four marines were tragically killed after the election, yesterday. By my count about five dozen Iraqis and coalition troops were killed on Election Day. Is this the definition of �Catastrophic Success?� Is that a good day in Iraq? Hundreds of our young people and thousands of Iraqis have been needlessly and senselessly murdered since George Bush triumphantly announced an end to �major combat� almost two years ago now. ...
I would have asked Larry King if he would want to sacrifice one of his children for sham elections in Iraq. Would he or George Bush send their children to be killed or maimed for life for a series of lies, mistakes and miscalculations? Now that every lie has been exposed to the light for the invasion and occupation of Iraq why are our sons and daughters still there? Not one more drop of blood should be spilled for this pack of lies.

This war was sold to the American people by a slimy leadership with a maniacal zeal and phony sincerity that would have impressed snake oil salesmen a century ago. The average American needs to hear from people who have been devastated by the arrogance and ignorance of an administration that doesn�t even have the decency or compassion to sign our �death� letters.


What I want to know is why the conservatives who demanded the nation support W's policies unquestioningly -- on pain of being declared unpatriotic -- cal openly wish that Obama fails. Surely partisanship must have limits.

traditionalguy said...

The USA has its faults, and it also has a self correcting desire to do good and not evil. The desire to help others has allowed our foreign policy to go out onto too many limbs where our friends and opposition politicians have sawed us off. But not seeing the value in our open culture and strong self defense instinct comes from blinded people. They are blinded by comparing the USA with perfect societies full of loving people, like for example....Oh never mind , those perfect place are delusions without reality except minds learning reality from group think mind controllers in Education and the MSM. We need most of all a few dynamic tellers of truth that can stand up under an assault from the Educators and the MSM. Scot Brown has that ability. Sarah Palin has it too. Neither of them are perfect on all issues, but at least they both seem to be immune to the slander smoke screens coming out of the Progressives and their media like a flood.

Synova said...

It's okay, garage. Lots of people are chiming in. Danny Glover says it's climate change and that's what we get, you know. Not that anyone cares about him, but I don't see how that's a different blame game than Robertson.

It's pretty close to #20 from the list.

Henry said...

A liberal friend of mine is in agony over Obama's decision to expand the war in Afghanistan. Obama's quick response to the disaster in Haiti led him to post that finally he could be proud of his country for something.

I wasn't the only person to respond with reference to the U.S. Navy's Tsunami operations of 2004. Under Bush no less.

But that's just an historical event and doesn't touch the philosophical issue of ideological-driven alienation. What I see in my most disillusioned friends is not just the drive to improve the lives of others in ways that they think right (though that is sincerely present), but an insular indulgence in reviewing the country's failures. The lack of scope and context that circumscribes their outlook never ceases to surprise me. It is little wonder that they must find scapegoats upon which to pile the sins of democracy.

Regarding the tsunami, here is a Newport War College paper by Bruce A. Elleman that I've been reading:

Waves of Hope:The U.S. Navy’s Response to the Tsunami in Northern Indonesia

bagoh20 said...

I suppose some of those people would like to retract those statements, but you know most would probably double down if given the chance and many have.

Undoubtedly, there are many similarly stupid right wing statements, I would like to compare that list. It might be instructive.

These type of statements by the left are what continue to harden my political stand and I'm sure the reverse is true for liberals. I would want those ideas examined so they can be disowned and we both can get our side of the room cleaned up.

garage mahal said...

Danny Glover says it's climate change and that's what we get, you know

He did? He said climate change caused this earthquake?

MnMark said...

What I want to know is why the conservatives who demanded the nation support W's policies unquestioningly -- on pain of being declared unpatriotic -- cal openly wish that Obama fails. Surely partisanship must have limits.

Red herring. No one "demanded the nation support W's policies unquestioningly." Name one person who said that - who said that no one should ask questions or that everyone had to support Bush's policies.

And we want Obama to fail because we object to what he has planned. We don't want the policies of the most left-wing President in history to become law. If Obama was a traditionalist conservative instead of a transnational progressive, I'd support him all the way. So it has nothing to do with Obama the man. It has everything to do with Obama the left-winger and his intentions for the country.

Synova said...

I did notice that the quotes were generally long ones. No sound-bites out of context. The shortest was Cindy Sheehan's I think.

Speaking of...

FLS, no one blames any mother for feeling that the cause is not worth dying for and that their child should never have died. But I wouldn't believe a single word of *hers* about what Casey thought about the war or anything related to it. He was a brave soldier who volunteered for a mission he did not need to volunteer for the day he was killed and his mother's response to that was to go hug some South American dictator on television and ignore her living children.

I stopped feeling sorry for her grief when it became clear she was having a "hey, look at me" years-long party on his grave.

Joe said...

Says Glover: “When we see what we did at the climate summit in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’?”

Paul said...

Stupid? I'd say malignant is a better description. You can be or say something stupid and not necessarily have evil intentions. These people represent the depth of the Gramscian damage done to our society by the ideological enemies of free peoples and free markets. It's either us or them. Either they succeed in destroying America from within or we destroy them. It's that simple. Hopefully it can be done at the ballot box. I'm increasingly optimistic that it can as the liberal agenda manifests its hideous consequences for all to see. All but the truly brainwashed that is.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

FLS, I used to consider most of your comments, even if I disagreed with them, to be intelligent and thoughtful. But for the last several weeks, they seem as disconnected and thoughtlessly off-topic as Jeremy or Garage at his worst. You’re not thinking of the topic presented, you’re just dropping off some barely-related cheap shot against conservatives.

Regarding your Kirkwood comment, what does it have to do with the comments here that some conservatives (including the one you cite, who I have to admit that I’ve never even heard of) disagreed with the war or thought it wrong or even said stupid, liberal-style things about it? Nothing, that’s what. If you want to make a list of stupid things said by conservatives, I’m sure that you can find some material, but the list here was of things that exemplify liberal thinking, not things randomly said by someone who might be conservative but that sound like textbook liberal thinking. It was not in any way distortive to fail to include it.

Regarding the Sheehan comment, I assume that your problem is that the list didn’t provide context that Sheehan’s son died? I really couldn’t tell why else you would be bothered by it. The loss of hero Casey Sheehan is common knowledge; there was no reason to mention it here. Yes, we sympathize with her loss, but that doesn’t make her not wrong.

And you know as well as I that the only “wish” was that Obama fails to move the country towards socialism. And you know that no one demanded unquestioning support for W. Stop knowingly misrepresenting the facts.

I want the old FLS back.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Echoing what Synova said about Sheehan, I would add that I do sympathize because I think that her words and actions since indicate that she kind of lost it when her son was taken from her. No surprise there; losing a child is an incredible thing to deal with and a lot of people who do have a difficult time adjusting.

I consider her statements to be the ravings of a crazy person who doesn't understand better. I consider the actions of those who encourage and exploit her grief reaction for their own purposes to be uncompromised evil.

Arturius said...

What I want to know is why the conservatives who demanded the nation support W's policies unquestioningly -- on pain of being declared unpatriotic -- cal openly wish that Obama fails. Surely partisanship must have limits.

I consider myself a conservative and thought invading Iraq was one of the more monumentally idiotic things this nation has done in its 200+ year history, although probably not for the same reasons as liberals.

That said, I also wasn't cheerleading for a US defeat, referring to jihadist terrorists as Minutemen or demanding an end to the war at the same time voting for appropriations for the war like the Democrats have done since coming to power in 2006.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Joe said: Says Glover: “When we see what we did at the climate summit in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’?”

What is Glover's religion, or does he have one? Because he's basically saying here that "God" or something like it is punishing us (well, Haiti, who I imagine had quite a small influence in these matters), for Copenhagen's failures. And if he's not a believer, well, it makes no sense at all.

Can anyone point out a difference between this and Pat Robertson's ravings about gay rights being the cause for 9-11?

WV: bicsh "Smack my bicsh up"

Hoosier Daddy said...

You know there are a lot of celebrities in that list so its not so much liberalism is that they're just frickin morons but maybe thats why liberals like them so much...like minds and all.

Sheryl Crowe thinks we should only use two sheets to wipe our ass? Christ no wonder Lance dumped her.

OldGrouchy Doug Wright said...

This list should be required reading in all government schools! LOL.

Joe said...

From the Great Alice Cooper:
"If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal."

Hoosier Daddy said...

Because he's basically saying here that "God" or something like it is punishing us

More than likely he's thinking that its Mother Earth lashing out at us for driving SUVs or using more than two ply to wipe our half moons.

I remember some dipshit model who was in Indonesia when the tsunami hit and lost her boyfriend and blaming it on climate change. All celebrity means now is you can say some of the most monumentally idiotic things and still get airtime for it.

Hoosier Daddy said...

He did? He said climate change caused this earthquake?

Yeah he did garage although that doesn't mean you have to take down your framed picture of him kissing Hugo Chavez.

edutcher said...

This is the cumulative effect of 40 years of left-wing propaganda. Most of the people quoted spent their entire adult (and I use the term loosely) lives belching the same platitudes - and they were spoon-fed that dreck through their college years and earlier from the people Lenin called, "useful idiots".

Put them all together and you see what the Comintern accomplished over eighty-five years. Ironically, the entity that set all this in motion to accomplish world domination didn't survive, but the stupidity lingers on.

WV "restsain" What the staff in the Psych unit hopes will happen when the Haldol kicks in.

Montagne Montaigne said...

I wonder why no one here, or Anne herself, ever thoughtfully considered my list of "top 500 reasons Conservatives are Dickwads"? I mean, with a thoughtful and measured response, to really consider how conservatives should look inside themselves and really consider not being total f'ing dickwads in the future... tragic.

TMink said...

Does anyone here take a comment seriously that includes the word "dickwads?"

Other than this post of course.

Trey

Montagne Montaigne said...

Trey, if you'd read my thoughtful list, you would thoughtfully consider how to improve yourself, and not be such a dickwad in the future. Tsk tsk...

TMink said...

Joe, after reading that, I actually would consider who to vote for based on Alice Cooper's opinion!

Trey

bagoh20 said...

"I wonder why no one here, or Anne herself, ever thoughtfully considered my list "

I think that comment answers itself.

TMink said...

My question stands. I do not think I read lists by people who call me a dickwad.

I will think about this, but I am fairly certain that calling me a dickwad is the nuclear option of my opinion of someone have anything worthwhile to say.

Now you could have called me a bastard or pompous windbag, as others before you have, and I still would have read the things you said. It is just that dickwad is such an immature and poorly thought out insult it makes me despair of anything of worth following.


But maybe I am alone in this.

So does anyone else here take a comment seriously if it contains the word "dickwad"

Other than this post of course. 8)

Trey

Hoosier Daddy said...

Trey, if you'd read my thoughtful list, you would thoughtfully consider how to improve yourself, and not be such a dickwad in the future. Tsk tsk...

Well knowing that unfettered reproduction creates people like you I am changing my position on unrestricted abortion.

Ah...my first progressive policy adoption...it's so liberating

Hoosier Daddy said...

Now you could have called me a bastard or pompous windbag

Just don't call him Shirley.

TMink said...

Shirley you jest!

Trey

traditionalguy said...

There is a world wide mind control centered in Europe that has produced knee jerk complaints about the evil USA for not regulating the sun's solar winds, nor the planet's tectonic plates, nor providing for the total safety of men from natural disasters, not to mention sending teams of guardians out for all living species. That level of insanity is today's man made disaster. How can any government satisfy that great delusion no matter how much its leaders bow down to Pure Human Free earth ideologies and sends all its wealth overseas as guilt offering? Liberal thought today is a suicidal illness.

Paul said...

"Yeah he did garage although that doesn't mean you have to take down your framed picture of him kissing Hugo Chavez."

Now that's damn funny.

Freder Frederson said...

Hey, how come he didn't include "nobody anticipated the breach of the levees", or "we know exactly where the wmds are"?

Oh.

Never mind.

Asshole.

SMGalbraith said...

There are stupid comments and then they are maliciously evil ones. Yes, evil.

To wit -
..'there has never been an army as violent and murderous as our army has been in Iraq' - Seymour Hersh

The Red Army in WWII? Nope. The Nazis slaughtering entire towns?

No, the US Army in Iraq.

And Hersh is a widely quoted and respected journalist by the world's media.

Sometimes you just throw up your hands. Among other things.

Joe said...

Yeah Freder...the levees...now who talked about levees in NOLA...oh yeah all the people who believed that Bush blew them up....I wouldn't mention levees were I you Freder...oh yes and WMD's, let's not forget all those Bushbots like Gore, Albright and Bill Clinton bombing Iraq to get at those WMD's we knew really didn't exist....

careen said...

This is exactly what my sister said over Thanksgiving with a lot of emotion - a lot of trembling anger - even with Bush out of office. She has no loyalty to the country and doesn't identify with the country. She's a nice bobo enviro activist mom non-working attorney with a kid and an electric car in a university town.

I don't think it's remotely "a strain" in liberal politics. I think it's the libs that do have a love of country (they exist) that are the minority, and are occasionally surprised at what they've unleashed.

And the little sister, I can tell you, at root in the family of origin it all gets down to anger at mommy and daddy and catholicism. All the beliefs grew from that.

Freder Frederson said...

Most of you, Ann included, don't believe this country is worth dying for. Having other people killed for, yes. But actually dying for, no way.

Heck, if you even had to pay a little extra tax to pay for the wars of the last eight years you would all be signing up for the next tea party rally.

Freder Frederson said...

Yeah Freder...the levees...now who talked about levees in NOLA...oh yeah all the people who believed that Bush blew them up.

You don't even know what you are talking about--so perhaps you shouldn't mention levees or WMDs.

As for the location and existence of WMDs. We knew a hell of a lot more in Jan of 2003 than we did in Jan of 2001. Bush decided to ignore all the intelligence that was telling him that Saddam had indeed destroyed his WMD.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Most of you, Ann included, don't believe this country is worth dying for. Having other people killed for, yes. But actually dying for, no way.

No I prefer the General Patton policy of letting the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.

I know that bugs you because your sympathies do lie with the jihadist freedom fighters but hey, we all have our cross to bear.

Joe said...

So Freder spending less than 1% of GDP calls for MORE taxes...or is this the Chicken hawk Argument? Tell me Freder what did you do to STOP the war, that cost you money or time in any significant way?

No taking the time to create a papier Mache puppet doesn't really count...as vile as she was Cindy Sheehan is more the role model I see, here? Did you give up your career or life to STOP the war, or are you just a Chicken Dove...you talk a good game but really can't put any skin in the game?

WV: “gasele”…I assume a gasoline-powered gazelle.

Hoosier Daddy said...

You don't even know what you are talking about--so perhaps you shouldn't mention levees

Well I know this much: If you're going to build a city under sea level maybe get some construction advice from the Dutch.

Or maybe not rely on Democrat leadership of your state for generations on end.

Joe said...

"You don't even know what you are talking about--so perhaps you shouldn't mention levees or WMDs."
Why don't you "educate me" there ole Freder? Now who prated on about levees and who bombed Iraq in '98, and who voted for the Invasion in 2002? Just inform this poor ole country boy?

WV: "druit" A Celtic priest from the hills of Arkansas.

bagoh20 said...

Actually Cindy Sheehan didn't give up her career to protest - she made it a career, and pretty successfully. She mostly has the son she dishonored to thank for that. She would have gotten nowhere if not for his sacrifice.

Pastafarian said...

Wow, Freder.

Go fuck yourself.

SMGalbraith -- I agree, that quote about the US military in Iraq really stands out for its stupidity, dishonesty, and depravity.

When you consider the extraordinary lengths that these people have gone to in order to minimize civilian casualties, at risk to their own lives, a statement like this just boggles the mind. These people over in Iraq are some of the best people we've ever produced, and they've acquitted themselves more admirably than any force in recent memory.

How many illegal actions (massacres, rapes, executions, etc) have we heard about over these many years, attributed to these hundreds of thousands of young men and women? Fewer, it seems to me, than we did in VietNam, or even WWII.

Oh, and Freder -- in case you missed it the first time -- go fuck yourself.

garage mahal said...

Yeah he did garage although that doesn't mean you have to take down your framed picture of him kissing Hugo Chavez.

I think this was an attempt at conservative humor.

vbspurs said...

23) The entire country may disagree with me, but I don't understand the necessity for patriotism. Why do you have to be a patriot? About what? This land is our land? Why? You can like where you live and like your life, but as for loving the whole country… I don't see why people care about patriotism. -- Natalie Maines

What a DUMBASS.

Natalie Maines doesn't even know that the lyric "This land is our land" was written by Woody Guthrie, who if not an outright Communist, was close. He wrote the song in response to Kate Smith's sappy (as he saw it) and patriotic rendering of God Bless the USA.

His song challenged the idea that the US was a caring, admirable country, seen in this stanza:

In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple;
By the relief office, I'd seen my people.
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking,
Is this land made for you and me?


Yeah, Woody, it is. America isn't the land of unicorns and candy where things always are perfect and equitable. The only thing it ever "promised" to be, is to give you a chance.

vbspurs said...

Incidentally, ole Woody and Grandpa Walton were apparently an item. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, John Boy.

OldGrouchy Doug Wright said...

Victoria, you've just made "Good night, John Boy" seem quite a nasty saying!

vbspurs said...

Hehehe, Old Grouchy.

wv: agoled! I'm sure he did.

Freder Frederson said...

Oh, and Freder -- in case you missed it the first time -- go fuck yourself.

Great argument. And I hope you are expressing your outrage from Camp Arifjan or Bagram. Otherwise, you are just proving my point.

Freder Frederson said...

Why don't you "educate me" there ole Freder?

Do you know who Ivor Van Heerden is? If you don't, then this venue is just the wrong place to start educating someone as ignorant and stupid as you.

Like I said, if you don't know what you are talking about you should just stfu.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I think this was an attempt at conservative humor.

Actually garage I was serious as a heart attack.

Joe said...

Well Freder I certainly hope your typing from Lafayette park, whilst holding a sign calling for an end to the War in Afghanistan, or as you get ready to chain yourself to the doors of the Pentagon, otherwise you're just a Chicken Dove.

Freder Frederson said...

Tell me Freder what did you do to STOP the war, that cost you money or time in any significant way?

Was a loved one yours killed or injured in these wars? Were you deployed to Southwest Asia? If not, then I guarantee you the Iraq war cost me a hell of a lot more than it cost you. So stfu. You don't know me and you don't know my story.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The only point Freder has is his head.

Joe said...

So it would be your contention that a Cat 3 hurricane, for which the levees WERE designed for, should or should not have broken Freder? And that the failure of the levees is in some way the Bush Administration's fault, even though billions had been spent in securing the City of New Orleans, from just the disaster that occurred?

Hoosier Daddy said...

You don't know me and you don't know my story.

And unless you have some special telepathic ability you don't know anyone else's story either.

So take your own advice and stfu.

edutcher said...

Freder Frederson said...

Most of you, Ann included, don't believe this country is worth dying for. Having other people killed for, yes. But actually dying for, no way.

It's astounding how, when a Lefty has nothing to say, he usually comes out and says it. This is vintage Alinsky.

In case you never heard, Fred, there is a cap on the size of the US Armed Forces. Thanks to that useless idiot, William Jefferson Blyth III, we have an armed force, especially the Army, 60% the size of what it should be. The Army right now is 10 divisions because, according to your friends in the media, Congress doesn't want to pay for anything bigger (English translation - money blown on ZeroCare is better spent than on protecting this country).

vbspurs said...

Incidentally, ole Woody and Grandpa Walton were apparently an item. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, John Boy.

Will Geer was a Red from the start; his mother-in-law was the old radical, Mother Bloor.

PS vb, could you re-post your item on Internet Explorer in the cafe? I saw it, but, it was posted so late, I don't think many other people would have seen it.

bagoh20 said...

"How many illegal actions (massacres, rapes, executions, etc) have we heard about over these many years, attributed to these hundreds of thousands of young men and women? Fewer, it seems to me, than we did in VietNam, or even WWII."

Or Chicago, or DC, or Detroit any time.

AllenS said...

Hey, Freder. Did your wife make it back from Iraq safely? If she did, I'll bet she left you immediately. Loser.

Joe said...

Well Freder it sounds like the war cost SOMEONE else a lot...not you...but if it damaged you so badly, the least you could do is follow Mother Sheehan in her quest...otherwise Chicken Dove.

Sorry if that seems cruel, but well as the sayin' goes, "On the Internet none knows you’re a dog." And so we all are handsome, sexy Internet dot.com millionaires, or victims of the Bush Illegal Immoral, Unconstitutional and Fattening War in Iraq...or not...or just SAY we are.

Come on dude/dudette at least be like Micah Wright, IIRC the name, and CLAIM you were a Ranger, even in Panama....or claim you're at Lafayette park...

Freder Frederson said...

In case you never heard, Fred, there is a cap on the size of the US Armed Forces.

So what is this, the old Tom DeLay excuse? I tried to sign up to fight in Vietnam, but all the black folk beat me to it?

You are pathetic.

Joe said...

So the only people that can comment on a war are VETERANS, Freder...that's running at about 4% of the US Population. And they support the wars at about a 60-70% rate....so you're saying that 2.4% and 2.8% of the US populace are the only people who can support the war, and because they do so, then the war(s) are acceptable? Right?

I assume the only people who can oppose the war are those who made a roughly commensurate time commitment to the anti-war cause? Otherwise aren’t they just Day Trippers, you know Chicken Doves?

Freder Frederson said...

Hey, Freder. Did your wife make it back from Iraq safely? If she did, I'll bet she left you immediately. Loser

You know, you are a fucking asshole.

Yes, we did get a divorce. She didn't leave me immediately. But three one-year deployments in four years will strain the best marriages and ours didn't make it. These wars are tearing lots of families apart. If you knew or cared anything about the military or the strain that these wars are putting on military families you would not be such a total douchebag.

Joe said...

All of which begs the question, of does my service or non-service invalidate in any way the truth or validity of my statements?

Freder you keep trying the Chicken Hawk argument, that begs the question, and I suspect you want the question begged, do the arguments for or against Afghanistan or Iraq make sense, whether the person making them has served or not?

But I will continue to hammer you for NOT making an equivalent commitment if you keep on with this silly and meaningless Chicken Hawk argument.

And did you ask these questions of Hillary or Bill or AlGore when they supported the bombings in 1998 or the War Resolution in 2002? Or did you ask them of Bill or Madeline or AlGore when they decided to bomb Kosovo, without UN approval?

Joe said...

So Freder is it fair to say that you OPPOSE the war because you got divorced? And can we keep trumpeting that fact about and therefore invalidate any arguments that you advance in opposition to the war?

No, we can't...because divorced or happily married your arguments stand or fall on their own merit....

Please grant others the same courtesy.

AllenS said...

But three one-year deployments in four years

Bullshit.

Freder Frederson said...

Bullshit.

Well then you obviously don't know how overtaxed the military is.

Freder Frederson said...

So Freder is it fair to say that you OPPOSE the war because you got divorced?

Absolutely not

MadisonMan said...

Freder, I'm sorry to hear about your divorce.

Joe said...

Sure Freder you SAY that but we all "know" that the real reason you oppose the various wars is the spousal separation issue...see, not fun is it?

So as I say drop the Chicken Hawk cr@p, and discuss the merits of the position, facts, and ideas....otherwise we'll just dismiss you're objections as personal life issues....

And that was a nice thread jacking....

So any way, why DOES the Left Hate America, so much? Any ideas?

vbspurs said...

So any way, why DOES the Left Hate America, so much? Any ideas?

Some time ago, I wrote a blogpost called, "Why People are Conservative". I included a list of cautionary points about each political side, but this was the one about Leftists.

"Liberals must be wary of falling into these traps.

They are:



* Belief in the superiority of philosophy and world view

* Vanguard elitism of intellectuals who grasp this 'complex' philosophy

* Intolerance of all who stand in the way of implementing this philosophy

* Impatience to do what's right, versus to do what's correct

* Impractical solutions

* Amateurishness

* Self-loathing

* Class hatred

* Fifth-Columnism

* Fanatacism"

Fifth columnists, being, of course a small clandestine group within the larger group they're trying to bring down. So, basically, traitors.

I am adamantly opposed to thinking that leftists in the guise of Democrats hate America. That's outrageous.

But one would have to be blind not to notice that they tolerate a lot of anti-Americanism in their ranks, both in actions and talk.

It stems from being comfortable with the thought that America is more imperfect than not, and they can more easily think of the bad things which America has done or stood for, than Republicans who think this country's positives FAR outweigh the negatives.

Joe said...

*Self-loathing*.
-I would debate, no dispute this….Leftists don’t “self loathe.” They LOATHE Rush Limbaugh, and George Bush and Sarah Palin…they have CONTEMPT for the people that listen to or voted for these people….but they don’t loathe themselves. Instead, they see themselves as the few, the proud, the “enlightened.” They have contempt for many things in America, but not for the things THEY like, just for the things that the people they oppose like. What they believe is good and pure and true…and they can have multiple plasma screen displays, and they can go on ski trips 9after purchasing carbon offsets) or take a private jet rather than the Chunnel and Euro Rail to Copenhagen…YOU can’t.

*I am adamantly opposed to thinking that leftists in the guise of Democrats hate America. That's outrageous.*
Well that’s a mug’s game isn’t it? Sure not ALL Leftist/Liberal Democrats hate America…but the intellectual guideposts of the movement do…Jeremiah Wright and many others….I mean if you hang out with Nazi’s, it doesn’t make you an Anti-Semite, but it sure makes me suspicious of you. Does John Kerry hate America, I don’t know….and that ought to be alarming in and of itself, but many of the people that guide Leftist/Liberal politics sure do.

Opus One Media said...

Give me about 10 minutes to list the top 100 GOP quotes...We can start with "I can see Russia from here" and spend a little time with the Truthers, swing by the Teabaggers, tune into Rush and Sean and Savage, and, if there is space find Cheney's planet and zoom there.

Mission Accomplished Ya'betcha.

Opus One Media said...

Give me about 10 minutes to list the top 100 GOP quotes...We can start with "I can see Russia from here" and spend a little time with the Truthers, swing by the Teabaggers, tune into Rush and Sean and Savage, and, if there is space find Cheney's planet and zoom there.

Mission Accomplished Ya'betcha.

Joe said...

you go Opus..."I can see Russia" great quote, FROM TINA FEY! And I can HARDLY wait for the Limbaugh quotes, be sure to get the most recent one where he opposes donating to Haitian aid.....

WV: "intest" taking your sister's ACT/SAT test for her.

edutcher said...

Freder Frederson said...

In case you never heard, Fred, there is a cap on the size of the US Armed Forces.

So what is this, the old Tom DeLay excuse? I tried to sign up to fight in Vietnam, but all the black folk beat me to it?

You are pathetic.


No, it's the facts, which you obviously can't take. There are only so many slots at any given time. so all the people you hate can't go themselves or send their kids.

As for pathetic, you're the one using a worn-out Alinsky trope, instead of logic.

And showing what a racist you are.

Well then you obviously don't know how overtaxed the military is.

Then let me see you lobby Congress to add another 10 divisions to the Army and bring the Navy up to 600 ships.

Opus One Media said...

Give me about 10 minutes to list the top 100 GOP quotes...We can start with "I can see Russia from here"

...


I believe that was Tina Fey. You need to go back to Kos and tell him his purple crayon doesn't work.

Synova said...

"It stems from being comfortable with the thought that America is more imperfect than not,.."

I think it's multiculturalism.

Honest.

The first and unbreakable rule is not to judge others, ever, for any reason.

What that leaves is judging ourselves. Over. And over. And over.

Among other things, it makes it impossible to be objective.

Joe said...

Synova, I believe the credo of multi-culti's is ALL cultures are equal, except WESTERN Culture which is racist, sexist, bigoted, homophobic, and Imperialistic....and therefore subject to scathing criticism, whereas any other culture’s faults or foibles, even in the realm of sexism or racism or imperialism can be seen to be a part of the PAST or the almost inevitable result of Western perfidy.

Really, joking aside, why else does the NOW-Gang seem so silent about Islam or the plight of Islamic womyn, because to criticize them is to side with the “Imperialists”.

The reason I quit Amnesty International was because the US Board elections. All the candidates were talking about “Gay Rights”. OK, I’m a Cultural Conservative, and that put me off, true, but at the time the Burmese Government was (and still is) mistreating its citizens, the Taliban were re-imposing the 8th Century on Afghanistan, Rwanda was occurring and these guys thought that Gay Rights was a subject of INTERNATIONAL IMPORT? How about just plain old HUMAN RIGHTS, guys? I don’t care what genitalia you find appealing in a mate, when your government is busy putting hundreds of thousands behind the bars, literal or figurative…and yet, Amnesty International felt the way to get votes was to emphasize Gay Rights? I just realized that these guys and gals had lost it and where merely playing to their own choir, not the needs of imprisoned people world-wide….

former law student said...

there is a cap on the size of the US Armed Forces. Thanks to that useless idiot, William Jefferson Blyth III, we have an armed force, especially the Army, 60% the size of what it should be.

According to the PBS NewsHour, a bipartisan group in Congress wanted to increase the size of the military -- to take the pressure of Combat Arms groups, especially the Guard and Reserves whose lives were most disrupted -- all the way back in 2004. But one Donald Henry Rumsfeld thought that was unnecessary.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june04/army_1-13.html

Once again, Republicans prove as useless as tits on a bull.

Jeremy said...

what a crock.

nothing but wing nut chum, provided by the queen.

Joe said...

FLS, dude have you noticed who has run Congress for the last three years, and the whole government since 2009? Just because Rumsfeld opposed something in 2004, doesn't mean it can't be done now....

OldGrouchy Doug Wright said...

Jeez, "Jeremy," give it a break and let some of the other students use that phony baloney account you're using.

OBTW: What grade did your class get in it's "Ward Churchill Logic" class? Was it graded on an Obama HealthCare curve?

Synova said...

"...a bipartisan group in Congress wanted to increase the size of the military..."

At least part of the issue with increasing the size of the military is that it would be increased for the *next* conflict, not this one.

Increasing training beyond a certain point actually takes many of the most necessary specialists out of the field, and what is returned is a whole crap load of E-1s.

As it was, I believe we increased total troop levels during war-time at a comparable rate to the draw downs under Clinton.

The Crack Emcee said...

Don't. Get. Me. Started.

Just don't.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Yes, we did get a divorce. She didn't leave me immediately. But three one-year deployments in four years will strain the best marriages and ours didn't make it.

Maybe not root for the other side.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Give me about 10 minutes to list the top 100 GOP quotes...

Hey hdhouse, how aboutcha reduce your personal carbon footprint already? You, reduce some of that strain on Medicare.

Or just move your sorry dick to Sweden so you can pay $5 for a newspaper while they give you a brain transplant.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Once again, Republicans prove as useless as tits on a bull.

And FLS as usual forgets his side has been running Congress since 2006.

Seriously up your game already.

Quaestor said...

vbspurs wrote...

Natalie Maines doesn't even know that the lyric "This land is our land" was written by Woody Guthrie, who if not an outright Communist, was close. He wrote the song in response to Kate Smith's sappy (as he saw it) and patriotic rendering of God Bless the USA.

Close? Outright Communist is accurate -- Upper case 'C,' Comintern approved, dyed-in-the-wool Stalinist Red. Card carrying and self-described. And he never repented -- never flinched from mouthing the party line. Never evidenced a moment's malaise when years of "anti-Fascist solidarity" were flushed down the memory hole in favor of the Hitler/Stalin pact.

But perhaps I'm too hard on the old guitar-strumming atonal windbag. He was, after all, thinking with a relentlessly rotting brain -- which might explain the mentality behind most of those 40 quotes.

Pastafarian said...

Freder, I'm sorry to hear about your divorce; and that people you've known have been lost in war. You have my condolences.

But you might want to consider the possibility that your emotional attachment to this issue might be clouding your rational judgment. A liberal should be the last person to imply that only veterans are fit to decide what we do with our military; and to impugn everyone here who disagrees with you with a charge of cowardice really pushes the asshole envelope.

AllenS said...

Don't get too overwhelmed with emotion over Freder's divorce. If he was even married to someone in the service in the first place. It would be his second divorce. Is everyone aware that Freder is a former law student? Freder has suffered from depression almost his whole life. Hard to say what the drugs he is taking and has been taking has done to his mind.

shana said...

Garage, here's audio of Danny Glover saying that climate change caused the earthquake in Haiti. He also seems to imply (but he's not being hugely coherent here) that the failure to reach a deal in Copenhagen consigns the entire Carribbean to future natural disasters.

Opus, honey, Sarah Palin didn't say "I can see Russia from my house." Tina Fey did. Sarah Palin said that since Russia and Alaska are such close neighbors ("You can see Russia from parts of Alaska"), it's important to keep diplomatic channels open. Which strikes me, as I'm sure it will you, as a pretty good point.

former law student said...

FLS as usual forgets his side has been running Congress since 2006.

Through the end of 2006 Congress was solidly in GOP hands:

Final voting share House: GOP 53.0% Dems 47.0%
Final voting share Senate: GOP 55% Dems 45%

Seriously up your game already

No need to as long as the GOP continues to blame Clinton -- who left office at the start of 2001 -- to excuse their failure to increase military manpower in 2004, when they controlled both houses as well as the Presidency.

Hint No. 2: Rumsfeld was selected by a GOP President.